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Principus Shmoof Triariian
Sardianii-Triarii Planetary Services
Armed-n-Hammered
93
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Posted - 2014.04.11 17:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
I see your point, but here's a better idea.
Instead of trying to incite a discussion over whether it's OP or not, let's ask the Devs to give us the Minmatar AV weapon. That will deal explosive damage and be the direct counter to the Armor of a Madruger. Or a Minny Tank with an artillery cannon or autocannon that deal explosive damage. The game is incomplete, and there will be people who will demand that HAVs receive a nerf, when the counters to them are not fully implemented. An Amarr tank and Amarr AV weapon will bring the major EM damage dealers and be the counter to shield. The problem with AV and HAVs is that they just are incomplete, and don't mirror the design of EVE that the game is following well enough yet |
Principus Shmoof Triariian
Sardianii-Triarii Planetary Services
Armed-n-Hammered
93
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Posted - 2014.04.11 17:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:rithu wrote:AV is never supposed to be a one person thing, you need support of a good squad & team
Then so should vehicles. Vehicles should be pretty **** without team work, just like AV 
Not entirely. HAVs are designed to be able to work alone, due to their survive-ability.
But here's the thing, an HAV alone with no sort of direction isn't as good, but an HAV with a good squad commander who's giving the pilot orders can be a force to be reckoned with, as team work always will amplify somethings effectiveness. Just because there isn't another HAV, doesn't mean it's alone, it has a team to work with.
Basically, teamwork is needed to get more out of your HAV, and more out of your AV |
Principus Shmoof Triariian
Sardianii-Triarii Planetary Services
Armed-n-Hammered
96
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Posted - 2014.04.11 17:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Principus Shmoof Triariian wrote:Cat Merc wrote:rithu wrote:AV is never supposed to be a one person thing, you need support of a good squad & team
Then so should vehicles. Vehicles should be pretty **** without team work, just like AV Not entirely. HAVs are designed to be able to work alone, due to their survive-ability. But here's the thing, an HAV alone with no sort of direction isn't as good, but an HAV with a good squad commander who's giving the pilot orders can be a force to be reckoned with, as team work always will amplify somethings effectiveness. Just because there isn't another HAV, doesn't mean it's alone, it has a team to work with. Basically, teamwork is needed to get more out of your HAV, and more out of your AV But HAV solo and AV solo, most of the time the HAV will win.
You're putting a giant weapon on treads against a person, of course it will win if the pilot isn't an idiot. Remember the days when anyone with a swarm launcher and AV Grenedes melted all tanks? Do you wanna go back to that? Oh boy, another nerf, and then a few patches later, another buff. what would we accomplish doing that? Nothing. I'd rather have how it is stay and be able to interact with EVE more than more nerf, buffs, nerfs, buffs. |
Principus Shmoof Triariian
Sardianii-Triarii Planetary Services
Armed-n-Hammered
97
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Posted - 2014.04.11 18:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Principus Shmoof Triariian wrote:
You're putting a giant weapon on treads against a person, of course it will win if the pilot isn't an idiot. Remember the days when anyone with a swarm launcher and AV Grenades melted all tanks? Do you wanna go back to that? Oh boy, another nerf, and then a few patches later, another buff. what would we accomplish doing that? Nothing. I'd rather have how it is stay and be able to interact with EVE more than more nerf, buffs, nerfs, buffs.
That statement is fallacious. In a game, one person should be able to win against one other person if they use something designed to be their hard counter; and they should be able to do it with reasonable expectations. Otherwise, that unit becomes better than every other unit in said game, and there becomes no point in running anything else other than that item. That serves to remove all diversity from the game, which supposed to be one of this game's 'selling' points. Balancing the game wouldn't hinder the time it would take to strengthen the EVE/DUST link, as they are being worked on by different teams of developers; and I'm pretty sure the majority of the playerbase would much rather have a balanced game where everyone's role is equally fun and viable, as opposed to strengthening the link to a game who's playerbase would love nothing more than for CCP to shut this game down.
Balance would be nice, too bad that isn't what the nerfs/buffs do. they nerf, and they buff, they don't balance. If it was balanced, why would you want to nerf it? If it was balanced, why would you want to buff it? Just because you can't kill the scout that is cloaked doesn't mean it is OP, because you might be pursuing unrealistic goals if what you're using can't actually kill cloaky scouts, so you go to the forums and whine until the end of time. If it's broken, fix it, if it isn't and you're just bad, HTFU yah scrub. AV isn't a solo thing for HAVs, it never has been. And it shouldn't be easy to do. A single swarm launcher shouldn't be able to take out an HAV.... but 3 or 4 should have the ability to kill it. In EVE, an assault frigate would be hard pressed to kill a battleship... but 5 Assault Frigates?
And if balancing the game was so freaking easy, why isn't it balanced? Why isn't there more of a link to EVE? Simple. Dev time is focused on nerfing and buffing the whiney players who can't deal with something killing them. If it needs to be balanced then by all means do so, but if it really doesn't... then boo hoo you died. You want the game to be better? I have the answer, and there is even a song done by CCP
H.T.F.U
Less nerf/buff, more content please |
Principus Shmoof Triariian
Sardianii-Triarii Planetary Services
Armed-n-Hammered
104
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 18:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:Principus Shmoof Triariian wrote:Atiim wrote:Principus Shmoof Triariian wrote:
You're putting a giant weapon on treads against a person, of course it will win if the pilot isn't an idiot. Remember the days when anyone with a swarm launcher and AV Grenades melted all tanks? Do you wanna go back to that? Oh boy, another nerf, and then a few patches later, another buff. what would we accomplish doing that? Nothing. I'd rather have how it is stay and be able to interact with EVE more than more nerf, buffs, nerfs, buffs.
That statement is fallacious. In a game, one person should be able to win against one other person if they use something designed to be their hard counter; and they should be able to do it with reasonable expectations. Otherwise, that unit becomes better than every other unit in said game, and there becomes no point in running anything else other than that item. That serves to remove all diversity from the game, which supposed to be one of this game's 'selling' points. Balancing the game wouldn't hinder the time it would take to strengthen the EVE/DUST link, as they are being worked on by different teams of developers; and I'm pretty sure the majority of the playerbase would much rather have a balanced game where everyone's role is equally fun and viable, as opposed to strengthening the link to a game who's playerbase would love nothing more than for CCP to shut this game down. Balance would be nice, too bad that isn't what the nerfs/buffs do. they nerf, and they buff, they don't balance. If it was balanced, why would you want to nerf it? If it was balanced, why would you want to buff it? Just because you can't kill the scout that is cloaked doesn't mean it is OP, because you might be pursuing unrealistic goals if what you're using can't actually kill cloaky scouts, so you go to the forums and whine until the end of time. If it's broken, fix it, if it isn't and you're just bad, HTFU yah scrub. AV isn't a solo thing for HAVs, it never has been. And it shouldn't be easy to do. A single swarm launcher shouldn't be able to take out an HAV.... but 3 or 4 should have the ability to kill it. In EVE, an assault frigate would be hard pressed to kill a battleship... but 5 Assault Frigates? And if balancing the game was so freaking easy, why isn't it balanced? Why isn't there more of a link to EVE? Simple. Dev time is focused on nerfing and buffing the whiney players who can't deal with something killing them. If it needs to be balanced then by all means do so, but if it really doesn't... then boo hoo you died. You want the game to be better? I have the answer, and there is even a song done by CCP H.T.F.U Less nerf/buff, more content please In dust we are limited to 16v16.. If AV can't solo a tank it creates unbalance. You're eve statement is shortsighted. Ttk on vehicles needs to be high so that we don't return to previous 1.7 where any militia scrub could solo a tank. In order to then balance, tanks can not be so effective against infantry. This is the issue. Not exactly sure how to solve it yet though. The nerf to Swarms was definitely a step in the wrong direction. The only conclusion I can reach is to give tanks a much higher HP but a much lower regen. Steady impacts from AV should cause tanks to retreat for a larger length of time than how it currently sits. Damage to vehicle WP was a good step too and has helped immensely in increasing AV incentives.
My EVE statement is shortsighted? How so? Most fights I get in EVE are often terribly unbalanced towards one side, and when it is an even fight in terms of numbers, those numbers are often in the range of 16 vs 16, though it can be more.
Most likely, HAVs are fine how they are, and we are missing half of them. Furthermore, the Tank Destroyers have been removed (Enforcers), so there goes to anti HAV HAV, the Amarr and Minmatar weapons are not in the game either, so there isn't the EM and Explosive damage either (Yes swarms but Minmatar do explosive better). I can assure you if the Minny HAV with an Autocannon turret was in the game, or the Minny AV weapon, the Tri Rep Madrugar would have a devastating counter. Also, when AV could solo tanks, AV was overpowered. When they can't kill one with 5 people, AV is underpowered. Where is the balance? We're better off now than we were. So don't go asking for a nerf to tanks or a buff for AV, because then things get OP or UP, and nothing will be accomplished |
Principus Shmoof Triariian
Sardianii-Triarii Planetary Services
Armed-n-Hammered
104
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 18:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
BAD FURRY wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:rithu wrote:AV is never supposed to be a one person thing, you need support of a good squad & team
Why bother with AV then? When you just log on and want to have fun solo, you're out of luck then I assume? Nonsense, if AV can't get the job done I'll just drop my Militia Sica fit with 2x damage mods and 3-shot your tank in a matter of seconds. You're assumption is wrong. AV should be just as effective against vehicles as vehicles are against infantry. There is nothing about a tank that makes you special and require multiple people to destroy. Quote: There is nothing about a tank that makes you special and require multiple people to destroy umm yes there is ! 228.000~305,775 isk for the maddy with and with out fac blaster as avd to get this maddy you need 5~6 mill SP give or take so ya something that,s needs 5-6 mill SP costs 200-300k for just one and can be blown up on the drop or blown up in one hit with a Bombchu yes there is something special and the roll it plays is to be a TANK ! not a drop suit.
Again, when one guy could solo a tank, AV was OP, and it was quite unfair for HAV pilots. And if you can't kill the tank, avoid it, or get people to kill it |
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