Balance would be nice, too bad that isn't what the nerfs/buffs do. they nerf, and they buff, they don't balance. If it was balanced, why would you want to nerf it? If it was balanced, why would you want to buff it? Just because you can't kill the scout that is cloaked doesn't mean it is OP, because you might be pursuing unrealistic goals if what you're using can't actually kill cloaky scouts, so you go to the forums and whine until the end of time. If it's broken, fix it, if it isn't and you're just bad, HTFU yah scrub. AV isn't a solo thing for HAVs, it never has been. And it shouldn't be easy to do. A single swarm launcher shouldn't be able to take out an HAV.... but 3 or 4 should have the ability to kill it. In EVE, an assault frigate would be hard pressed to kill a battleship... but 5 Assault Frigates?

In a game, one person should be able to win against one other person if they use something designed to be their hard counter; and they should be able to do it with reasonable expectations. Otherwise, that unit becomes better than every other unit in said game, and there becomes no point in running anything else other than that item.

That serves to remove all diversity from the game, which supposed to be one of this game's 'selling' points.

And if balancing the game was so freaking easy, why isn't it balanced? Why isn't there more of a link to EVE? Simple. Dev time is focused on nerfing and buffing the whiney players who can't deal with something killing them. If it needs to be balanced then by all means do so, but if it really doesn't... then boo hoo you died. You want the game to be better? I have the answer, and there is even a song done by CCP

H.T.F.U

Less nerf/buff, more content please

So that we don't return to previous 1.7 where any militia scrub could solo a tank.

Then so should vehicles.
Vehicles should be pretty **** without team work, just like AV

AV is never supposed to be a one person thing, you need support of a good squad & team

Tanking is never supposed to be a one man thing, yet here we are.....

This is the math for a Caldari Ck.0 Sent with max proficiency skills and 4 complex damage mods using an Ishukone Assault Forge Gun, vs a Madrugar using 2 complex heavy armor reps and 1 enhanced armor rep because you can't fit 3 complex armor reps. Everything is using max skills, for a true end game comparison.

TL;DR at bottom

---

Forge Gun stats, prof 5, 4 pro dmg mods for Ishukone Assault Forge Gun
1500 base
1500 / (4 dmg mods).8572 = 1749.88 (1750)

vs shield
1740 / (10% weakness to shield)1.1 = 1591

vs armor

1750 / (prof + 10% bonus to armor)0.75 = 2333.3 (2334)

Versus tripple rep maddy
2 complex heavy reps
1 enhanced heavy rep
= 512.5 (513) armor / s

1200 shield
recharge delay 6s
dep recharge delay 11.25s
recharge rate 96
4000 armor
513 armor / s

---

1st shot

1200 / 1.1 = 1333.3 (1334)
1500 - 1334 = 166 left over

166 / 0.75 = 221.3 (222)

4000 - 222 = 3778 armor

0 shield, 3778 armor after first shot


2nd shot
2.25 IAFG charge time between shots

2.25 x 513(armor repair rate/s) = 1154.25 (1155)

3778 + 1155 = more than 4000 so he is back to full 4000 armor

4000 - 2334 = 1666 armor left over

3rd shot

1666 + 1155 = 2821

2821 - 2334 = 487 armor left over

4th shot

487 + 1155 = 1642

1642 - 2334 = -692 armor left over (dead)


As we can see here, it takes 4 direct hits from the dedicated AV suit to kill this Madrugar. This is considering the AV player hits all his shots in the least amount of time. He must hit all his shots, if he misses one shot he has to repeat the whole process over agin. This gives the Madrugar player 6.75 second to retreat or find cover before being dead.

Is it balanced? I just like putting the info out there and letting people take from it what they will.

TL;DR
4 shots from an IAFG to kill a triple rep mady with max skills and max damage. (he is dead on the 4th shot)

Why bother with AV then?

When you just log on and want to have fun solo, you're out of luck then I assume? Nonsense, if AV can't get the job done I'll just drop my Militia Sica fit with 2x damage mods and 3-shot your tank in a matter of seconds.

You're assumption is wrong. AV should be just as effective against vehicles as vehicles are against infantry. There is nothing about a tank that makes you special and require multiple people to destroy.

There is nothing about a tank that makes you special and require multiple people to destroy

In dust we are limited to 16v16.. If AV can't solo a tank it creates unbalance. You're eve statement is shortsighted.

Ttk on vehicles needs to be high so that we don't return to previous 1.7 where any militia scrub could solo a tank. In order to then balance, tanks can not be so effective against infantry. This is the issue. Not exactly sure how to solve it yet though. The nerf to Swarms was definitely a step in the wrong direction.

The only conclusion I can reach is to give tanks a much higher HP but a much lower regen. Steady impacts from AV should cause tanks to retreat for a larger length of time than how it currently sits.

Damage to vehicle WP was a good step too and has helped immensely in increasing AV incentives.

umm yes there is !

228.000~305,775 isk for the maddy with and with out fac blaster as avd

to get this maddy you need 5~6 mill SP give or take

so ya something that,s needs 5-6 mill SP
costs 200-300k for just one
and can be blown up on the drop
or blown up in one hit with a Bombchu

yes there is something special
and the roll it plays is to be a TANK ! not a drop suit.

umm yes there is !

228.000~305,775 isk for the maddy with and with out fac blaster as avd

to get this maddy you need 5~6 mill SP give or take

so ya something that,s needs 5-6 mill SP
costs 200-300k for just one
and can be blown up on the drop
or blown up in one hit with a Bombchu

yes there is something special
and the roll it plays is to be a TANK ! not a drop suit.

Again, when one guy could solo a tank, AV was OP, and it was quite unfair for HAV pilots. And if you can't kill the tank, avoid it, or get people to kill it

;)

I like how he says its so easy to die in a triple rep maddy

umm yes there is !

228.000~305,775 isk for the maddy with and with out fac blaster as avd

to get this maddy you need 5~6 mill SP give or take

so ya something that,s needs 5-6 mill SP
costs 200-300k for just one
and can be blown up on the drop
or blown up in one hit with a Bombchu

yes there is something special
and the roll it plays is to be a TANK ! not a drop suit.

Again, when one guy could solo a tank, AV was OP, and it was quite unfair for HAV pilots. And if you can't kill the tank, avoid it, or get people to kill it

1 Proto breach FG shot to the weakspot will kill it

Infact that kills all HAV with no hardeners on

Let's look at the numbers instead of the claims.
A militia Sica from the store comes with 4150 HP
A Soma, 5200
A Wirkomi BFG does 2100 damage. If you have Lev.5 Prof 5 w/ Complex Heavy Damage Modifier and you hit the fuel cells and get the 168% damage bonus you get 4260 damage. So, you can take out a Sica in one shot, given these conditions. You can't take out a Soma or any other tank. IIf the Sica has any shield extenders or armor plate you can't one shot it. If you only have prof. 4, you can't one shot it. If you miss the fuel cells, you don't even come close. I'd file this claim as possible, but implausible.

But its only good for raping infantry, any rail or missile tank will pop it

@ OP:
-forgegun is bugged and most of the shots are blanks
-you really think the tank will stay in line of sight so you can get 4 hits in a row on him? keep dreaming
-fuel injector will be activated stright after the 1st hit or maybe after the 2nd which means you will see speedy gonzales in action.

Nope.

As we can see here, it takes 4 direct hits from the dedicated AV suit to kill this Madrugar. This is considering the AV player hits all his shots in the least amount of time. He must hit all his shots,

if he misses one shot he has to repeat the whole process over again.

Not entirely. HAVs are designed to be able to work alone, due to their survive-ability.

But here's the thing, an HAV alone with no sort of direction isn't as good, but an HAV with a good squad commander who's giving the pilot orders can be a force to be reckoned with, as team work always will amplify somethings effectiveness. Just because there isn't another HAV, doesn't mean it's alone, it has a team to work with.

Basically, teamwork is needed to get more out of your HAV, and more out of your AV