I'm going to keep this short and hopefully expand on my thoughts throughout the discussion.

First, I believe the logi bonuses and the equipment nerf went too far. I think that is pretty apparent by the lack of logi that you see on the battlefield at the moment.

Secondly, I think that the current bonus incentivizes the slayer logi fitting style. Why would you put a crap uplink on a Galogi suit now? Why would you put a rep tool or a nanohive? You are far better off putting a scanner or two on the suit and saving the fitting costs to fit more HP and/or a better weapon and grenade.

I think things could be balanced with buffs to base equipment stats.

For the record, I do not have a logi suit skilled up past ADV. This is after having 3 proto logi suits prior to 1.8. But I do play regularly with some amazing logis that stuck with the role.

I think a lot of the dislike for how Logistics is working now, mostly stems from all of being quite a bit jaded due to the overall nerf to equipment. To us, all gear is crap now and each suit makes a single piece of gear 'normal'.

However look at it from the perspective of someone who never played before 1.8. To them there is no such thing as a crappy Uplink, it's just an uplink because that's all they've ever known, and that Amarr Logi suit turns that normal uplink into a badass uplink.

The only difference is the perception of whats going on. That being said its difficult for me to say the mechanic is a bad one, since the "problem" we see with it is really just in our perception of it, not the mechanic itself.

I think a lot of the dislike for how Logistics is working now, mostly stems from all of being quite a bit jaded due to the overall nerf to equipment. To us, all gear is crap now and each suit makes a single piece of gear 'normal'.

However look at it from the perspective of someone who never played before 1.8. To them there is no such thing as a crappy Uplink, it's just an uplink because that's all they've ever known, and that Amarr Logi suit turns that normal uplink into a badass uplink.

The only difference is the perception of whats going on. That being said its difficult for me to say the mechanic is a bad one, since the "problem" we see with it is really just in our perception of it, not the mechanic itself.

Its an understandable sentiment though, no one likes feeling like they effort they put into a game is suddenly yielding less results because the gear they have isn't as effective as before. So I totally understand why people are upset.

I'm going to keep this short and hopefully expand on my thoughts throughout the discussion.

First, I believe the logi bonuses and the equipment nerf went too far. I think that is pretty apparent by the lack of logi that you see on the battlefield at the moment.

Secondly, I think that the current bonus incentivizes the slayer logi fitting style. Why would you put a crap uplink on a Galogi suit now? Why would you put a rep tool or a nanohive? You are far better off putting a scanner or two on the suit and saving the fitting costs to fit more HP and/or a better weapon and grenade.

I think things could be balanced with buffs to base equipment stats.

For the record, I do not have a logi suit skilled up past ADV. This is after having 3 proto logi suits prior to 1.8. But I do play regularly with some amazing logis that stuck with the role.

i think the logis should get 50% of the non race bonus
so like if i have my cal logi at lvl 2 i can wield the rep tool as effective as a lvl 1 mimnatar logi
or an ammar lvl 2 can use a scanner as effective as a lvl 1 gal logi etc

I like all the equipment changes and am glad there are less logis. I actually like the scouts with 2 equipment slots as well. It allows me to specialize in being a medic as opposed to being the jack-of-all-equipment.

Uplinks timers feel better and when pushing a point covered with them, if you lay a beating down, you have a chance to clear them out. This was not hardly possible before. I no longer have to carry these thanks to the generous scouts.

I don't feel the difference to hives, but I dont spam nades, so I am not that sure.

Thanks to scouts, I dont need to run a scanner. The snap shot and cooldown reduce super tank fits, and force players to play smarter. This is a big plus.

Oh, and my rep tool is glorious.
I am glad to be free of switching suits each death just to spam a certain equipment type. I truely hated it and hated playing my logi role that way

I now only run:
1 set ammo hive
1 set repair hive
1 needle
1 rep tool

Also, what if changing suits at a supply depot had a fee associated with it?

Perhaps this would help prevent some of the spamming that worries the community so much. Also prevents the goofball suit switching that some scrubs do when in a firefight.

i think the logis should get 50% of the non race bonus
so like if i have my cal logi at lvl 2 i can wield the rep tool as effective as a lvl 1 mimnatar logi
or an ammar lvl 2 can use a scanner as effective as a lvl 1 gal logi etc

I'm going to keep this short and hopefully expand on my thoughts throughout the discussion.

First, I believe the logi bonuses and the equipment nerf went too far. I think that is pretty apparent by the lack of logi that you see on the battlefield at the moment.

Secondly, I think that the current bonus incentivizes the slayer logi fitting style. Why would you put a crap uplink on a Galogi suit now? Why would you put a rep tool or a nanohive? You are far better off putting a scanner or two on the suit and saving the fitting costs to fit more HP and/or a better weapon and grenade.

I think things could be balanced with buffs to base equipment stats.

For the record, I do not have a logi suit skilled up past ADV. This is after having 3 proto logi suits prior to 1.8. But I do play regularly with some amazing logis that stuck with the role.

Am I crazy or did changing your suit in the beta result in a loss of the suit?

I'm going to keep this short and hopefully expand on my thoughts throughout the discussion.

First, I believe the logi bonuses and the equipment nerf went too far. I think that is pretty apparent by the lack of logi that you see on the battlefield at the moment.

Secondly, I think that the current bonus incentivizes the slayer logi fitting style. Why would you put a crap uplink on a Galogi suit now? Why would you put a rep tool or a nanohive? You are far better off putting a scanner or two on the suit and saving the fitting costs to fit more HP and/or a better weapon and grenade.

I think things could be balanced with buffs to base equipment stats.

For the record, I do not have a logi suit skilled up past ADV. This is after having 3 proto logi suits prior to 1.8. But I do play regularly with some amazing logis that stuck with the role.

I actually like that idea

It did, and I wish it still did so. That would force you to only switch out at a cost of a clone plus money. I was mad after they said they were fixing it. That is why we have equipment vomit.

Scaners got hit pretty hard, but rep tools, injectors and nanohives are still very useful, even at a reduced performance. And uplinks are still a must for a lot of situations. No matter how long the spawn time is, it's always faster than walking from the nearest fixed spawn. Domination, for example.

I still play as support logi when asked by my corp, and still use the unbonused equipment. It may not work as well as before, but it stills perform at acceptable levels. At least at proto.


I agree that the equipment nerf went a bit overboard on some things, but I don't think we that's the reason we see less logis on the field.

Most of the people that were logis prior to 1.8 were no real logis, but slayer logis. They wanted a suit which they could fit with the best modules, weapon, and could still carry a repairing nanohive or two. Even if the logi suit might be a better slayer after the 1.8 patch, the fact is that the scout suits make an even better one.

You can fit them full proto without any problem, they are fast, can jump, can cloak, have almost the same HP and have 2 equipment slots.


The reason you see less logis than before the 1.8 patch is not the equipment nerf. It's that the scouts make a better slayer suit than any slayer logi you can fit. The remaining logis are the true logis of 1.7.


EDIT: This is not a pun on you. I know you have been a real logi since PC started. Which would bore anyone. :p

Seriously, you can still make absurd logi points even without the logi suit. I have a dragonfly scout I use for uplinks. Last night I was in a FW match where nobody on my team was putting down links, so I grudgingly put away my neo commando suit and started placing links full time instead of earning event rewards. I had 2500 WP by the end of the match, almost entirely from uplinks.

It's funny that most people posting responses on here are just bitching about the lack of equipment or uplink availability instead of, you know, skilling into that and providing that for the team. If anything, the equipment nerf of 1.8 really focused on the importance of specialization.

You don't want terribly long 15 sec respawn uplinks? Well, guess what--put on an Amarr logi suit and drop uplinks. If not, get used to the longer time to spawn. Consider that that makes CRUs that much more valuable, and when you see "Enemy is hacking CRU"--GO DEFEND IT.

I swear, the answer isn't always nerf/buff. Maybe you'll have to put another suit on besides a heavy suit with your light weapon of choice. Maybe you can take off your brick scout suit and think about something other than your KDR. Maybe you can consider that Dust is a team game and you need to think about the team--and the overall victory--more than you think about yourself.

There's been plenty of times I'd rather stay in my new shiny sentinel suit and mow guys down, but if we have no logi to back us up, I totally understand that's a role that needs filling as much as the front line, scout, hacker, scanner, etc. Suit up. Getting into a suit costs hardly any SP. You can be tremendously effective at just level 1. ADV is easy to get to and can be done within a week easily. That gives you middle-of-the-road effectiveness for the new (old) equipment, and just picking between a 15 sec or a 12 sec spawn timer is a no brainer.

Sometimes the solution isn't that everyone else should do something. Sometimes the solution is you.

Do you guys still do Cal FW?

Also, what if changing suits at a supply depot had a fee associated with it?

Perhaps this would help prevent some of the spamming that worries the community so much. Also prevents the goofball suit switching that some scrubs do when in a firefight.

Or you could just limit the equipment to the person as opposed to the suit, and then prevent Supply Depots from negating the cooldown on Cloak Fields and Active Scanners.

You know, actually treating the illness instead of the symptoms?

Otherwise you'll just serve punish people who are switching to AV.

What this requires is that each time I use a drop uplink it stays USED! The system is currently broken to where I can run around and spam the heck out of an area and then switch suits for more equipment and then change to a milita fitting and take NO ISK LOSS

Also, what if changing suits at a supply depot had a fee associated with it?

Perhaps this would help prevent some of the spamming that worries the community so much. Also prevents the goofball suit switching that some scrubs do when in a firefight.

Is this a new bug to 1.8? I swear this didn't use to happen (been here a while so might not be paying any attention whatsoever) but I noticed it just last night when I had a militia dropuplink in an ambush match just to make money. The frontline starter fit with a militia uplink is 370isk. I went to restock it after battle because I used both the uplinks I had throughout the battle but to my surprise I still had it.

Nope, been like this since I joined back in May of '13.

If my mention of it now is the first time the forums are hearing about it then shame on everyone coding. This is not something my lowly merc self should be revealing.

It probably isn't. I've also been here since May of '13. I just am a bad player and die often. I guess I live in a suit so little I just never had the ability to notice that as much.