to the CPM0) What CAN we know about PC 2.0 that isn't hidden by the NDA?

To prospective CPM1 candidates) How would you do PC 2.0?

to the CPM0) What CAN we know about PC 2.0 that isn't hidden by the NDA?

To prospective CPM1 candidates) How would you do PC 2.0?

It is apparent that PC corporations are in no position to govern themselves as many found that grouping together to monopolize the game mode is far more profitable that playing it as intended. The renting of districts and paying protection fees is not what was intended. It has turned into its worst possible form. An extortion machine.

The Council should weigh in on this topic. I'm especially interested in how Kain Spero feels about it, considering he played a part in orchestrating this method of exaction and extortion.

It is apparent that PC corporations are in no position to govern themselves as many found that grouping together to monopolize the game mode is far more profitable that playing it as intended. The renting of districts and paying protection fees is not what was intended. It has turned into its worst possible form. An extortion machine.

The Council should weigh in on this topic. I'm especially interested in how Kain Spero feels about it, considering he played a part in orchestrating this method of exaction and extortion.

It's apparent that this does not help grow the community and only serves to further the divide between new players and veterans.


I say we freeze all PC assets. Donate any generated income towards NPE programs. Pilot incentives for new players. Providing grants for new players.

As well as provide Dust University with their own space within PC that would forever remain neutral.

There must be rules.

We need The Council.

It is apparent that PC corporations are in no position to govern themselves as many found that grouping together to monopolize the game mode is far more profitable that playing it as intended. The renting of districts and paying protection fees is not what was intended. It has turned into its worst possible form. An extortion machine.

The Council should weigh in on this topic. I'm especially interested in how Kain Spero feels about it, considering he played a part in orchestrating this method of exaction and extortion.

It's apparent that this does not help grow the community and only serves to further the divide between new players and veterans.


I say we freeze all PC assets. Donate any generated income towards NPE programs. Pilot incentives for new players. Providing grants for new players.

As well as provide Dust University with their own space within PC that would forever remain neutral.

There must be rules.

We need The Council.

Why not Devalue/Remove ISK when the Currencies merge? I mean remeber these suits are high tech things that were recently made, they're going to be expensive.

The open market and a combined market are two separate things. CCP would need to do a massive amount of 'what if' scenarios about a combined market as there are possibly certain scenarios where it could be game-breaking for Dust.

Remember, there are ways in eve to make 100m ISK in a day or less.

Dust RM value of ISK is based on the conversion of AUR since it is a FTP game
EVE RM value of ISK is based on the converstion of PLEX since its is a subscription game

To balance out the two markets they would have to make sure that $1 invested in Dust is equal to $1 invested in EVE. They would also need to make sure that Dust mercs can achieve parity on market potential with EVE players as well as the ability to create their own equipment.

Here is a scenario that could or could not play out. Someone uses EVE capital to buy up all of the Uplinks on the Dust market. They inflate the prices to sky high levels where it can only possibly be purchased by other EVE players or that EVE players corp/alliance (at the regular rate). The only way to get uplinks then would be through grinding out Amarr FW everyday to get enough for PC. Without the ability to manufacture Dust equipment, there is no way to baseline the prices. If that manufacturing were solely done in EVE then that still means that Dust mercs are beholden to their EVE masters.

Final Thought - Always think about the mechanics of the game itself rather than putting the onus on other players to create work-arounds to a broken system. Its not the community's responsibility to fix the game, its CCPs. There will ALWAYS be someone who will take advantage of a situation for their own good, all they need is the opportunity.

This is a very important point. New Eden, in fact, encourages players to play selfishly. While it can cause drama and meta in it's own right, shaming someone for playing the game the way the game is designed isn't really fair to them.

Heck, a lot of people hate on Nyain San, yet Nyain San has never even really played exploitatively. They just happen to have bad server mechanics on their side and no competition in their time zone.

To prospective CPM1 candidates) How would you do PC 2.0?

....

The current system is massively flawed and will only be fixed when:
- Work actually needs to be done on a district (time and effort) for it to be able to generate ISK. That isnt to say that it shouldnt be extremely profitable. It just shouldnt be a money tree that grows on its own.
- Mechanics are put into place that turn wars into something other than being able to put your best 16 in a match at any given time. Only through complexity of strategy and resources will these seem like actual wars instead of long exhausting strings of pub matches.
- More immersion into what it means to actually own a specific piece of space in both Dust and EVE. Right now, clones are magically transported from one planet to the next by the Genolution fairy and there is nothing that another corp can do about it other than manipulation of timers and locking

In all honesty, work should have been done on completely revamping PC once EoN. proved that one alliance can dominate the whole grid. The current situation is just proof that CCP has not addressed this and it continues to be an issue.

I am hoping that CCP addresses this in full at Fanfest or I do not have much hope for the next year of this game.

Final Thought - Always think about the mechanics of the game itself rather than putting the onus on other players to create work-arounds to a broken system. Its not the community's responsibility to fix the game, its CCPs. There will ALWAYS be someone who will take advantage of a situation for their own good, all they need is the opportunity.

Canari, well said and a mature response to a topic that other members of DNS have essentially taken great pleasure in poking the community about. +1

I think you cut to the heart of the matter on several fronts. For the record, no one is exploiting anything...just doing what the game allows.

I think the scenerio that a handful of players can control MH because effectively time and distance have little to no meaning is one the most frustrating. Tightening the EVE side interaction suddenly creates opportunities for corps outside NF, DBS, ect. When the logistics of war matter (at least a little) and having a viable EVE side partner can truly sway the outcome this gives an advantage to a smaller corp that that has a strong EVE link...which should be incentvized.

Additionally, having some form of Sov bills or upkeep work to be an ISK sink and create the conditions that a corp can actually be overstretched deepens the gameplay and meta opportunities.

Actually, I suggest you check out this game called "EVE Online", where a significant portion of the game's economy runs on rental systems. I would, in fact, suggest that the game is specifically intended to have renting of districts.

M1tch, I never said the current mechanics weren't broken. The fact that it's more profitable to hold a district than to rent it out (passive ISK) proves that much. But the reality is, for a sandbox to exist here, options like renting has to exist. And renting is a model that ensures more people get a chance to play in the territory than they would be able to otherwise. A large amount of people who live in nullsec space, for example, do not have anywhere near the means to hold nullsec space, even a small amount. However, those players, due to a rental model, are able to weigh the risks and rewards of doing so, and living there under the protection of a larger party, while remaining independent.

Renting models allow more people to be involved. The current dominant corps aren't renting, so I'm not "patting them on the back". The game model doesn't really support renting right now, since again, you make more on passive ISK than you can on rental fees, so the current game doesn't provide any reason to rent. If profit can only be made in PC through something like PvE, then there would be a reason to lease districts, if the larger entity didn't want to involve themselves with running the PvE modes, for example.

This is one of the better examples you'll find of cart before horse. And in the meantime Dust's best players are obtaining more ISK than they can ever spend.

I wouldn't say it should be just "shelved", given the popularity of the decision to do that for corp battles. But it'd make sense to pull the ISK out of it, and put that ISK back into pubs and FacWar. Let people continue to use PC for playing around, but don't reward people for it, until it's actually a working game mode.

The redline issue continues to primarily be about map design. You should never have overlook over the main map area from behind your redline. Snipers sit in the redline because it's not only protected, it's actually just outright the best sniper perch, since the game uses "bowl-shaped" map designs. A lot of the redline issues could be solved, at least temporarily, by pushing the redline a lot further back, so they still have one, but it can't be used to shoot at people on objectives.

All ISK generated in Molden Heath need to be either removed, or devalued by completely changing the scale of money involved in PC.

I prefer the second option.

I think to some degree, that will probably happen. By inflating the economy, to bring it closer to EVE ISK value, CCP can render the ISK stockpiles people have "less valuable" without removing it. This could be accomplished by simultaneously raising market prices and raising pub match payout, but not increasing people's wallets. That may, to some degree, actually happen naturally once the player market launches.

i just hope they find a way to do away with the timer,, i dont want to have to log on at specific times each day,, i wish it was instant (or within an hour of sending an attack order.. if ccp find a way to do this i think PC will be so cool,,