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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
87
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Posted - 2014.03.16 03:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
GǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪSTDGǪGǪGǪ.. ADVGǪGǪGǪ.PRO
HP(opt.1/opt.2)GǪGǪGǪ41/33 GǪGǪ.. 56/44GǪGǪGǪ66/66
Fittings(CPU/PG) GǪGǪ10/1GǪGǪGǪGǪ30/4GǪGǪGǪ..60/6
PenaltyGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪ1%GǪGǪGǪGǪ..3%GǪGǪGǪGǪ 5%
If you are interested in how I obtained these numbers, the answer is in my signature's link
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
87
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Posted - 2014.03.16 04:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
finally fixed the formattingGǪi hope its easy for you guys to read
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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xSir Campsalotx
G0DS AM0NG MEN
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
146
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Posted - 2014.03.16 05:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sounds fair makes basic shield extenders worth it
G0DS AM0NG MEN Director
Preferred fit 1 complex damage mod, 2 mlt kin cats, basic HMG, flux grenade on a std sentinel
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
102
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Posted - 2014.03.16 16:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
xSir Campsalotx wrote:Sounds fair makes basic shield extenders worth it
thank you
what do you think of the fitting values?
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
821
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Posted - 2014.03.16 16:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
I prefer option 2, because option 1 just means nearly no one will use complex sheild extenders because they give little bonus over ADV for huge increase in fitting cost. It's the major problem with armor plates.
The fitting options are nice solid numbers, like that they require loads of cpu but little pg.
Penalties...If you took option 2 then they are fine. Right now there isn't much wrong with the penalties, they really don't need reduced to plate levels. Speed loss is much worse shields depletion rate...and it's not close. |
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
103
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Posted - 2014.03.16 17:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Galvan Nized wrote:I prefer option 2, because option 1 just means nearly no one will use complex sheild extenders because they give little bonus over ADV for huge increase in fitting cost. It's the major problem with armor plates.
The fitting options are nice solid numbers, like that they require loads of cpu but little pg.
Penalties...If you took option 2 then they are fine. Right now there isn't much wrong with the penalties, they really don't need reduced to plate levels. Speed loss is much worse shields depletion rate...and it's not close.
ok cool. Thanks for the feedback. And yeah, the HP values for option 1 was scaled to armor plates exactly.
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2683
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Posted - 2014.03.16 17:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Honestly, seems like a perfect balance.
I think the STD extender should a slightly higher CPU requirement. Maybe 2-5 points.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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xSir Campsalotx
G0DS AM0NG MEN
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
147
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Posted - 2014.03.16 17:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Fitting is fine it should be like a basic plate in my opinion. Lot of HP to fitting ratio
G0DS AM0NG MEN Director
Preferred fit 1 complex damage mod, 2 mlt kin cats, basic HMG, flux grenade on a std sentinel
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xSir Campsalotx
G0DS AM0NG MEN
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
147
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Posted - 2014.03.16 17:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Oh yeah Opt 2
G0DS AM0NG MEN Director
Preferred fit 1 complex damage mod, 2 mlt kin cats, basic HMG, flux grenade on a std sentinel
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
103
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Posted - 2014.03.16 23:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
xSir Campsalotx wrote:Oh yeah Opt 2
yeah, a lot of people think option 2 is the better of them
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
111
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Posted - 2014.03.17 00:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
if any debs read thisGǪid like your opinions as well 
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
116
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Posted - 2014.03.17 02:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
bump for justice
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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SAIRAX SIS
Nyain San
Renegade Alliance
41
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Posted - 2014.03.17 02:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
+1 good idea |
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
122
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Posted - 2014.03.17 04:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
SAIRAX SIS wrote:+1 good idea
thanks
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Tectonic Fusion
1250
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Posted - 2014.03.17 04:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Excellent.
Solo Player
Squad status: Locked
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
1720
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Posted - 2014.03.17 04:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Penalty should stay how it is right now.
If you leave it like that, it'll make dual tanking more viable than it already is. |
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
145
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Posted - 2014.03.17 23:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Penalty should stay how it is right now.
If you leave it like that, it'll make dual tanking more viable than it already is.
i had a separate idea for reducing dual tankingGǪread about it in my signatures link. Its at the bottom of the first post
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Dauth Jenkins
Ultramarine Corp
242
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Posted - 2014.03.17 23:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
Right now, shields are garbage until you get to proto, but that's because the TTK didn't give you a chance to get into cover. Hopefully they fix that. Also, fix dual tanking. I'm one of the few proto callogis that has no extra armour. My fit right now has 500 shields, 108 armour. Most people dual tank and almost have 1000 armour. That shouldn't be...
Sees prototompers...
Sees blueberries start to snipe...
Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
641
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Posted - 2014.03.17 23:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
I do feel like PRO needs a slight buff from 66. I know the current HP and penalty values off the top of my head, but not the fitting values. Can you post a before/after?
I like the reduced penalties.
I would like to see very minor buffs to all the shield modules in general.
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
420
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Posted - 2014.03.17 23:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
Very nice. +1
I think your proposed changes would be very healthy for the Shield / Armour balance game. Definitely option one in my opinion. |
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
150
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Posted - 2014.03.17 23:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote:I do feel like PRO needs a slight buff from 66. I know the current HP and penalty values off the top of my head, but not the fitting values. Can you post a before/after?
I like the reduced penalties.
I would like to see very minor buffs to all the shield modules in general.
sure, i can at the very least give you a before right here-(CPU/PG)
Shields
STD ADV PRO
18/3 36/6 54/11
compared to plates at
STD ADV PRO
10/1 20/6 30/12
The ratio of CPU to Pg on all drop suits in the game is between 4.7:1 and 5.2:1, so 1pg=app. 5 CPU. Basically, shield extenders get screwed because of crappy scaling and even worse fittings
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
General Tso's Alliance
7506
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Posted - 2014.03.17 23:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Penalty is already laughable.
On the Caldari scout, 4x complex extenders adds an extra second.
If anything the penalty should increase.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
DUST514514
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
150
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Posted - 2014.03.17 23:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Penalty is already laughable.
On the Caldari scout, 4x complex extenders adds an extra second.
If anything the penalty should increase.
Well, that is a caldari scout, (the inherent shield stats on caldari and minmitar other than raw HP need to be switched) but i think the current penalties are fine, will update OP. What do you think about everything else?
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
General Tso's Alliance
7506
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Posted - 2014.03.18 00:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Penalty is already laughable.
On the Caldari scout, 4x complex extenders adds an extra second.
If anything the penalty should increase. Well, that is a caldari scout, (the inherent shield stats on caldari and minmitar other than raw HP need to be switched) but i think the current penalties are fine, will update OP. What do you think about everything else?
Everything else is fine.
Though I might add, on my Gallente Assault, 1 PG = 40 CPU.
Using the ratio between the two.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
DUST514514
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
755
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Posted - 2014.03.18 00:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
33/44/66 seems fine and legit and I agree on the CPU/PG ratings... |
Testing Turbo
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2014.03.18 00:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:xSir Campsalotx wrote:Sounds fair makes basic shield extenders worth it thank you what do you think of the fitting values?
Fitting values are way too high still
complex shield extender has 6x the fitting cost that a basic armor plate costs ... facepalm
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Testing Turbo
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2014.03.18 00:35:00 -
[27] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Penalty is already laughable.
On the Caldari scout, 4x complex extenders adds an extra second.
If anything the penalty should increase.
Lets look at the armor plate penalty .. ... hmm ..
increase the speed penalty of armor if you increase the delay on shields
4 plates should make you as slow as a heavy |
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
154
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Posted - 2014.03.18 04:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
Testing Turbo wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:xSir Campsalotx wrote:Sounds fair makes basic shield extenders worth it thank you what do you think of the fitting values? Fitting values are way too high still complex shield extender has 6x the fitting cost that a basic armor plate costs ... facepalm
the fitting values are balanced perfectly with armor plates-any less and you move towards the opposite end of the spectrum and id have to advocate for an armor plate buff/shield extender nerf
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
155
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Posted - 2014.03.18 04:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Penalty is already laughable.
On the Caldari scout, 4x complex extenders adds an extra second.
If anything the penalty should increase. Well, that is a caldari scout, (the inherent shield stats on caldari and minmitar other than raw HP need to be switched) but i think the current penalties are fine, will update OP. What do you think about everything else? Everything else is fine. Though I might add, on my Gallente Assault, 1 PG = 40 CPU. Using the ratio between the two.
GǪhow?
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
756
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Posted - 2014.03.18 08:35:00 -
[30] - Quote
Testing Turbo wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Penalty is already laughable.
On the Caldari scout, 4x complex extenders adds an extra second.
If anything the penalty should increase. Lets look at the armor plate penalty .. ... hmm .. increase the speed penalty of armor if you increase the delay on shields 4 plates should make you as slow as a heavy
Nope because armor gets more gimped through the penalty than shields.
shields get max 7% to depleted shield delay (note no penalty to shield delay)
armor gets max 5%
to walking speed
to sprintspeed (seems to get double penalty due to a possible bug)
to jump hight
to strafe speed (seems to get double penalty due to a possible bug)
ANd the shield penalty can be completely nullified through regulators that go to lows (not reducing potential hp) where armor can just nullify the sprint speed penalty by reducing potential hp (kincats go to the low) |
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
158
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Posted - 2014.03.18 13:26:00 -
[31] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:Testing Turbo wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Penalty is already laughable.
On the Caldari scout, 4x complex extenders adds an extra second.
If anything the penalty should increase. Lets look at the armor plate penalty .. ... hmm .. increase the speed penalty of armor if you increase the delay on shields 4 plates should make you as slow as a heavy Nope because armor gets more gimped through the penalty than shields. shields get max 7% to depleted shield delay (note no penalty to shield delay) armor gets max 5% to walking speed to sprintspeed (seems to get double penalty due to a possible bug) to jump hight to strafe speed (seems to get double penalty due to a possible bug) ANd the shield penalty can be completely nullified through regulators that go to lows (not reducing potential hp) where armor can just nullify the sprint speed penalty by reducing potential hp (kincats go to the low)
i do think the speed penalty needs to be raised on th basic and advanced plates-they give too much HP for the paltry penalty. Im thinking 2% basic, 3-4% Advancd
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
212
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Posted - 2014.03.20 01:58:00 -
[32] - Quote
bumpily bump bump
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
246
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Posted - 2014.03.22 02:59:00 -
[33] - Quote
bump
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
584
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Posted - 2014.03.22 03:03:00 -
[34] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:Testing Turbo wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Penalty is already laughable.
On the Caldari scout, 4x complex extenders adds an extra second.
If anything the penalty should increase. Lets look at the armor plate penalty .. ... hmm .. increase the speed penalty of armor if you increase the delay on shields 4 plates should make you as slow as a heavy Nope because armor gets more gimped through the penalty than shields. shields get max 7% to depleted shield delay (note no penalty to shield delay) armor gets max 5% to walking speed to sprintspeed (seems to get double penalty due to a possible bug) to jump hight to strafe speed (seems to get double penalty due to a possible bug) ANd the shield penalty can be completely nullified through regulators that go to lows (not reducing potential hp) where armor can just nullify the sprint speed penalty by reducing potential hp (kincats go to the low)
Therefore balance
And shields would be screwed more if we got more delay
Closed beta vet
Logi,
Heavy,
Python,
Scout.
Dark souls 2 new game plus.
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
248
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Posted - 2014.03.22 03:28:00 -
[35] - Quote
these right now are just simple number changes that NEED to be implemented. Also, I'm fine with shields costing 20% more CPU than i suggested and plates costing 20% more PG than they do, just to make utility mods used more often
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
277
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Posted - 2014.03.25 02:39:00 -
[36] - Quote
please can i get some CCP feedback? are you guys planning to implement any of this? or should i go back to my gimped minmitar frames that are killed by these awful fitting requirements and even worse scaling?
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
281
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Posted - 2014.03.25 03:29:00 -
[37] - Quote
.
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
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Villanor Aquarius
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
164
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Posted - 2014.03.26 14:28:00 -
[38] - Quote
I like option 1.
Proto is not supposed to be a huge benefit over adv. It's meant to be that slight edge with significant costs along with it and that's why I think option 1 is appropriate.
I think regulators also could use a bump to 20, 28, 33 and a slight fitting cost increase as well. I believe them being too weak per slot right now and per fitting is only exacerbating the issue of dual tanking. |
The Terminator T-1000
Skynet Incorporated
250
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Posted - 2014.03.26 14:34:00 -
[39] - Quote
Fitting values for proto are too high. Why pay 2x the cpu for a laughable 10 hp? I also do not understand why the fitting costs for armor jump so much from advanced to proto for a mere 25 hp which translates to less than 1 bullet. |
Cenex Langly
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
698
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Posted - 2014.03.26 14:36:00 -
[40] - Quote
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:GǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪSTDGǪGǪGǪ.. ADVGǪGǪGǪ.PRO
HP(opt.1/opt.2)GǪGǪGǪ41/33 GǪGǪ.. 56/44GǪGǪGǪ66/66
Fittings(CPU/PG) GǪGǪ10/1GǪGǪGǪGǪ30/4GǪGǪGǪ..60/6
PenaltyGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪ3%GǪGǪGǪGǪ..4%GǪGǪGǪGǪ 7%
If you are interested in how I obtained these numbers, the answer is in my signature's link
I think the upgrade from std to adv to proto is lopsided. To much of an increase from adv to proto (22) vs the std to adv (11). Something like 33/48/66, and the penalty around 3%/4%/5%
I have absolutely no grounds or basis for my numbers other than the 7% is so high when added up on a huge buffer, 4+ plates. And I prefer a much more even upgrade from std to adv to proto gear. I don't like to see a lopsided increase from one module to the next tier.
Newb
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