It's actually not that hard to make a decent scout fitting with the new stats. Even the advanced minmatar scout can be made good, but you've got to have your core skills maxed out, and of course, one low slot will need to be given up for an enhanced powergrid upgrade, but other than that, I just used that fitting tool to make an advanced suit that's as good as my current proto suit (short of a kincat) and is almost half the cost. It is doable, you just have to sacrifice a single low slot and you're set. So yes, Nova Knives are going to be even more awesome than they are now, and scouts are going to be the bane of all things.

Let's agree on two things. First, kin cats are mandatory and secondly, you want to be able to effective fit a cape. What would you also like to be able to equip with your NK, well I would like more than 225 stamina if I am required to run around foes, flank, escape and survive the encounter. I would also like to be able to equip more than a std smg or scrambler ( i can deal with a std but its even hard to equip those at s td let alone adv), because people do backtrack to create distance and it can leave NK in a terrible position. So in order to finish them off in many situations this would be a nice thing. Frankly, I don't care to use RE's because I can't see how RE's CPU/PG can fit in a min adv scout but people will make it work. RE's might be required in 1.8 due to all the eHP fatties stacking eHp mods but thats another discussion.

I would like to use 1-2 complex shield extenders, its frustrating to be 1 shitted by a burst HMG or CR... Not to mention TKK is being increased this won't matter for scouts running 250-330 eHP. It's like a 2-3 bullet difference, hardly something to bother. Scouts die quickly isn't a complaint but I do want to live after I've killed someone. On adv min scout, equipping a second extender is impossible. And since you can obviously see a armor mod won't or can't be used, adding a complex or two complex sheilds would be very very nice (and all other scouts adv can do it with ease).

When everything is considered, adding 4PG isn't much when adv min scout is max'd skills. I don't see how you can argue giving up a low slot when there's only 2 of them. If min adv was 2-3 and not 3-2 this would be different argument. But when you compare to other class bonuses, not running Kin Cat/Card cat in the lows seems to be counter productive to the flank, chase down, close the gap, stab, escape and live.

Please, try to fit an adv cloak on a min adv scout. Its possible with the other classes. Please try to use 2 shield extenders on a min scout adv, it's very possible on the other classes. Show me how RE's or nade/drop links/compact nano/scanners can be effectively equipped on a min adv scout. The class simply is inferior to The other 3 and its by the slightest margin of PG, but creates a major difference. If you want to be bare bones, running no kin cat or using some sort of PG/CPU mods on your low to make it happen then you should help the rest (the majority) argue for the smallest boost in PG.

- Cots

I don't know, but I've made it this far with the venerable and hobbled POS M/1 with IshNoks no problemo.

Edit: Here is the key to fitting a minja:

ALL Level 5- Electronics, Engineering, Light Weapons, Sidearms, and Explosives. Also, M scout skill, KN, KN Proficency. Pick a weapon and max that out. I suggest the combat rifle- All level 5 skills.

Then you can rock with knives and the basic combat rifle is extremely deadly based jus ton your skills.

voila. Perfect minja.

Ok, so let's use the idea you need a damp in a low. This is a great idea, it keeps you off the radar and of course lets you flank.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AvYSJ6FRJlihdFhORUVidFFTOEhpUG0xOVRUb0pkakE&usp=drive_web&pli=1

Here the doc, so if you compare to while cloaked vs non cloaks. First and foremost, i think I have effectively shown that a std cape is the only cloak a min adv scout can use. Please, consider the lots of posts above lol

If you're looking to get under 31.5 scan profile it means giving up 1 of the 2 low slots. Or both to avoid the Cal scout with 3 enhancer or a gal logi scanner (which you can't avoid in a adv scout min fit because you need 3 damps). So let's take away either a card cat (most likely, which hurts you're ability to move around the map, etc.. Lots of problems but its more likely than removing a kin cat), or a kin cat (which is almost mandatory to close distance to attack but some will remove this to free up RE's or use adv cloaked). Replace one or both with a damp helps and hurts perhaps equally, but it saves you 3-5 PG. IMO, not worth it, and like I've compared the other classes do not need these huge trade-offs. The 3-5 PG doesn't mean dam mod or 2nd extender as well.

Best case scenario, it lets you equip adv nade and turned your 8 PG into 13 PG for a weapon slot. Lots more options here but as you can see the damp at complex is still 23, meaning you're not off anyone's radar whose looking. Plus you've handicapped your stamina to 225 and still can't run a second extender/dam mod/adv cloak. It frees up ability to use more weapons so you can play with shotguns/AR (most not all), smg (most not all), or add compact hive or adv locus. Yes more options, but doesn't seem to be worth the stamina trade off or doesn't seem to keep you off those who are looking... I don't want to say bad choice because 31 to 23 helps you avoid 75% of scanners but it's not gonna help as much as maybe it should since you are wasting 1 of 2 Lows.

Again, CR is best option to free up PG and be deadly but 4PG more after bonuses would solve the problem.

- Cots

You seem to put a lot of emphasis on the shield extenders. Honestly as a dedicated scout, I don't use extenders. Even with the nerf to guns and extended ttk, I'm still staying away from shield extenders. Besides, as a ninja I thrive on not being spotted in the first place. And I'm sure I'm not the only one out there running around naked with no shield extenders on as I'm sure many of us scouts have gotten use to dealing with paper mache suits and working around that.

As for your statement about kin cats being mandatory, I know that's mostly true in 1.7 but we need to see first how things go in 1.8 before we jump to that conclusion.

Yawn.

I really don't see how NKs are any "scarier" than being gutted by a flickering orange "v" from 100m out with their first pull of the trigger, especially when the latter happens 1000 times more on average.

I guess some people just don't like dying to someone that close.

I take it you have never been backed into a corner by a scout while you were reloading?
I will find you and show you.
after I am finished with my thunder dome vs Atiim on friday of course.

If you have to reload against a scout, you need to play the game in the same house the TV is in.

Yawn.

I really don't see how NKs are any "scarier" than being gutted by a flickering orange "v" from 100m out with their first pull of the trigger, especially when the latter happens 1000 times more on average.

I guess some people just don't like dying to someone that close.

I meant after you started to reload after killing that militia suit that just walked at you

Meet me in a dark room or corner and I'll show you. I'll be waiting.

So, a scout manages to kill someone who is reloading. The legends, the legends.

Gonna make this clear. I'm not disagreeing with you that the Minmatar scouts are a bit lower on the fitting range than the other suits. They could benefit from a small boost, as could any suit, but look at it this way. You're trying to fit everything. The scouts have, for a very long time, been very hard to fit without giving something up. That's the way they work. If you want to fit something, you might have to give something up, because if you can fit everything you could possibly want, the suit becomes a bit, well... too good. Caldari logi for an example.

Try this fit though, and keep in mind I just hit max skills for everything, so some of the numbers will likely be off for particular people...

1.8

Scout M/1 Series

2x Complex Shield Extenders

Complex Precision Enhancer

Complex Range Amplifier

Enhanced Profile Dampener

Combat Rifle

Ishukone Nova Knives

Ishukone Cloak Field


This fit will allow you to stay both under the radar of everything but Gallente logis with proto scanners while also taking full advantage of the Nova Knives. You won't be the most versatile suit on the battlefield, being regulated to pure anti-infantry, but you'll see your enemies before they can see you. The suit's estimated cost is only 56.995 ISK as well, so it's both effective and affordable.

Kinetic Catalyzers are good, but they're not required for a good scout. Speed won't matter if you're getting scanned. The suits can function quite well, even without the extra powergrid.

I bet you say that to all the boys.

@cotsy8

What evidence do you have that the decloak sound will be loud? The only clue to the possible sound we have on that is the sound you hear when someone respawns and even then the noise is often so subtle that hardly anyone would notice it with all the background noise going on. Even if you do hear it, there is no mention of any attack delays after decloaking so I can instantly stab you as soon as I decloak which is as easy as just swapping to my knives when I can put into the light slot.

Well, they don't really get happy endings.

I'm not asking for this great buff to PG, I'm saying the suit could compete with 2-3 more PG (after boosts).

Cal is 60, Cal is 67, Ama is 64 compared to Min 56 with bonuses. Even 2PG would help greatly. 58PG on adv min scout would mean a lot, a NK PG reduction would be nice to create 4PG more. Allowing for far more possibilities, more balance between the classes and doesn't restrict you to a std weapon or CR.

- Cots

I'm not asking for this great buff to PG, I'm saying the suit could compete with 2-3 more PG (after boosts).

Cal is 60, Cal is 67, Ama is 64 compared to Min 56 with bonuses. Even 2PG would help greatly. 58PG on adv min scout would mean a lot, a NK PG reduction would be nice to create 4PG more. Allowing for far more possibilities, more balance between the classes and doesn't restrict you to a std weapon or CR.

- Cots

Simply downgrade to the zn-28 knives if you have minmatar scout maxed
the ishikones are WAY overkill sometimes

Have you ever noticed that nova knives don't have a fitting optimization skill book while other weapons do? If CCP were to at least add that, we wouldn't be needing 4 extra power grid.

Simply downgrade to the zn-28 knives if you have minmatar scout maxed
the ishikones are WAY overkill sometimes