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Why are the rich so Rich & the poor so Poor?!

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Meknow Intaki 81	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:03:00 - [1] - Quote I was playing some games the other night and half the people I was playing with we're filthy rich going full proto every round well the other half could barly run basic?! Did something go wrong along the way or is this how CCP planed it?! Billionaires Vs. The Poor
Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 104	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:05:00 - [2] - Quote It's just like real life! Sees prototompers... Sees blueberries start to snipe... Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
Delta90212 Dust2Dust. Top Men. 295	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:06:00 - [3] - Quote They messed up with PC and now the rich/good corporations are just farming millions isk each day In Rust We Trust // Standings Minmatar 6 // Minmatar Logi
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1876	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:07:00 - [4] - Quote Meknow Intaki wrote: I was playing some games the other night and half the people I was playing with we're filthy rich going full proto every round well the other half could barly run basic?! Did something go wrong along the way or is this how CCP planed it?! Billionaires Vs. The Poor Run only what you can afford to lose = profit. Then run what you want, until you lose too much isk. Back to running what you can afford to lose. It's called managing your income. It isn't hard.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11798	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:07:00 - [5] - Quote I love how people cry that respecs damage the game when at will respecs would cause less damage than the PC mess has been causing for months now Classic Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1754	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:08:00 - [6] - Quote Meknow Intaki wrote: I was playing some games the other night and half the people I was playing with we're filthy rich going full proto every round well the other half could barly run basic?! Did something go wrong along the way or is this how CCP planed it?! Billionaires Vs. The Poor Because they do the same things that made them that way. "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." Raoul Duke
KatanaPT Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 516	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:08:00 - [7] - Quote PC overly exploited (if you can still say its an exploit because its all made with CCP full knowledge) Tech Guard Recruiting Spot
Myron Kundera The Generals General Tso's Alliance 41	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:08:00 - [8] - Quote Thats why Robin Hood "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"
Hecarim Van Hohen ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 477	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:09:00 - [9] - Quote Poor stay poor either by choice (giving money away mostly) or because they don't know how to manage their wallet Rich stay rich because they don't give their money away and know how to manage their wallet BANGO SKANK WAS HERE 1.7 best match (HMG): 40/9/9 (K/A/D)
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1756	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:09:00 - [10] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I love how people cry that respecs damage the game when at will respecs would cause less damage than the PC mess has been causing for months now Classic You are on a roll today. Your splork is exceptionaly well timed and to the point. Carry on. "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." Raoul Duke

Aisha Ctarl Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3651	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:10:00 - [11] - Quote When DUST went "live" on 5/14/13, certain items were liquidated and the ISK given to the players for those items - this greatly affected those from the closed beta and open beta before the "live" date making many of us space rich in the span of a build download. I could list the ways how we Amarr are better than you, but your lesser mind wouldn't comprehend it.
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1756	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:11:00 - [12] - Quote KatanaPT wrote: PC overly exploited (if you can still say its an exploit because its all made with CCP full knowledge) I am pretty sure lots of the forum posters cried that the clone packs were too expensive and I think CCP changed the price. I will have to check on that but if so then you can't blame CCP for the mess nearly as much. "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." Raoul Duke
ALT2 acc 166	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:12:00 - [13] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I love how people cry that respecs damage the game when at will respecs would cause less damage than the PC mess has been causing for months now Classic The neckbeards just dont want competition. Really nice vid btw. Hater attractor proficiency 5, hater attractor optimization 5.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1877	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:13:00 - [14] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I love how people cry that respecs damage the game when at will respecs would cause less damage than the PC mess has been causing for months now Classic At this point, I think it's fair to say that CCP has done the most damage to Dust.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11803	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:14:00 - [15] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I love how people cry that respecs damage the game when at will respecs would cause less damage than the PC mess has been causing for months now Classic At this point, I think it's fair to say that CCP has done the most damage to Dust. Common ground established Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Meknow Intaki 81	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:15:00 - [16] - Quote Well Ya!! For me and you, I like to pad myself with a hefty pile of isk but nothing like what some of these guys got.. The games not even a year old and they got enough money to last forever!!
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11803	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:16:00 - [17] - Quote Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: Rich stay rich because they don't give their money away and know how to manage their wallet Locks districts Collects ISK Tells people to save ISK and git gud in PC Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Meknow Intaki 81	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:21:00 - [18] - Quote At least in EvE online you got to work to make isk!! It's just not given to ya
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1756	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:23:00 - [19] - Quote Source Genolution Starter Pack First up are two changes to the Genolution starter package. These changes are aimed at making it a bit cheaper to enter Planetary Conquest and also to give those in Planetary Conquest a more financially sound way of having fights. Attribute Current Value New Value Genolution cost 80,000,000 ISK 30,000,000 ISK Genolution clones 150 100 The reduction in price makes perfect sense to accomplish that goal but why the reduction in clones? Since the average number of clones lost in a battle is around 80, 100 clones should still be enough for most cases. One of the other things we did was increase the amount of ISK you get from clones lost in combat (biomass) and lowering the number of clones was done to balance against that. Summary: Genolution packs dramatically down in price, slightly down in clone count. Clone Sale Price This is primarily the income corporations get. The ISK from selling a clone back on the market either manually or when their district is full. We are increasing this by 50%. Attribute Current Value New Value Clone sale 100,000 ISK 150,000 ISK Summary: Corporations get more ISK for owning a district. Biomass Price At the end of a battle the winning side gets an ISK reward based on how many clones were killed in the battle. Two things are happening; we are increasing the reward and we are making it match the value of clones when they are sold. In the end this almost doubles the ISK reward for players participating in Planetary Conquest matches. Attribute Current Value New Value Biomass sale 80,000 ISK 150,000 ISK District safe after defence As it stands if you are defending a district and successfully defeating the attackers they can still attack. This means if someone has the money to burn they can just keep attacking you until the defenders just burn out after having no break. Here is what we are changing in Uprising 1.3: As an attacker you will no longer be able to launch a follow up attack until after a battle ends As an attacker you can only launch a follow up attack after you have won a battle The time frame is still 1 hour from the start of the battle however. So if a battle takes 30 minutes you have 30 minutes after it ends to launch the follow up attack. What this effectively means is that if the defenders win the earliest the next battle can happen is about 47 hours later, instead of 23 in the current system. This means a break from defending the district and also an extra reinforcement cycle of clones. The first part of this change (attackers only being able to launch a follow up attack after a battle ends), is live on our Tranquility server for DUST players right now. The second part, (only being able to re-attack if you have won), is coming with the rest of the changes detailed in this dev blog Summary: If defenders win a battle the district is safe for an extra day. "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." Raoul Duke
Aszazel R 0 N 1 N 81	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:36:00 - [20] - Quote ItGÇÖs kind of like, rich begets rich. Once you have full proto in everything your kill/death changes drastically. Shields go from 22, 33, 66. So even from advanced to proto, they are gaining double shields, which mean you have to do double damage to them to kill them and they have to do only half. Now that they stay alive much easier they can hack and kill and gain more points. Then they top the leader board and receive more money as payouts. Or you can pay AUR to get proto as well. Once you get to lvl 3.

LowerThan SnakeShip Ultramarine Corp 6	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:47:00 - [21] - Quote i have to disagree with everyone saying its about managing isk for one when you play niyan san who can run every match where every player runs a 500k is hav and 100k suit and even if they win the match they still lose at least on of each match they come out very bad on isk now consider they run 100 games a day where the whole squad is doing the exact same thing they are losing 40 million a 100 games just a ballpark figure there is no way those guys are worring about managing isk. i run vehicles i know in a ambush match i would never just out of a proto vehicle just to get a kill and not care if anyone hacks my vehicle. i know its not just nyian but i have never seen milkman not doing this
Fraceska Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 501	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:47:00 - [22] - Quote I know Dust players that have hundreds of millions of ISK and into the billions, they would have more but the conversion rate between EVE and Dust ISK keeps their "wallets" low, it's not really a wallet at that point and more like a freaking vault. They play Dust and farm ISK to have free Eve accounts thanks to plex. Fair much?
Heimdallr69 Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1734	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:49:00 - [23] - Quote Welcome to America! The rich can do whatever they want and not follow the rules because they haz money. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Fraceska Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 501	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:51:00 - [24] - Quote This is my greatest source of contention. They can in a F2P game exploit the game enough to garner enough ISK to fund multiple people with ISK to pay for their Eve accounts in one month? A plex can go for 350-450 million ISK depending on region. So while the rest of us have to pay real money or mine like mad on multiple industrial accounts to play Eve for nothing? They really really need to fix that.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 1101	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:52:00 - [25] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I love how people cry that respecs damage the game when at will respecs would cause less damage than the PC mess has been causing for months now Classic Because the majority of players / play time is going to come from the PC side, and not the unwashed masses of players who don't do PC.
Hecarim Van Hohen ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 480	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:53:00 - [26] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: Rich stay rich because they don't give their money away and know how to manage their wallet Locks districts Collects ISK Tells people to save ISK and git gud in PC I have districts? I grind my ISK like a peasant in pubs There's no corporation that would allow me into their PC match, I should git gud myself BANGO SKANK WAS HERE 1.7 best match (HMG): 40/9/9 (K/A/D)
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1883	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:54:00 - [27] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I love how people cry that respecs damage the game when at will respecs would cause less damage than the PC mess has been causing for months now Classic Because the majority of players / play time is going to come from the PC side, and not the unwashed masses of players who don't do PC. This will never happen. Dust, is, and will always be dominated by pub matches.
Knight Solitaire Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 399	Posted - 2014.02.28 17:55:00 - [28] - Quote I always run Proto in Pubs (I donut care what you think!), I dont make ISK from the Pubs though, I make it from PC battles, winning gives you 2mil ISK usually, and I get a weekly paycheck. I'm not super rich though, just like 40mil ISK, but its enough because there is absolutely nothing to buy in this game. Corporation: Fatal Absolution Alliance: General Tso's Alliance
Jax Saurian GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 166	Posted - 2014.02.28 18:02:00 - [29] - Quote 110+ mil isk One proto suit every two matches is my rule the rest of the time basic gear with militia gear sprinkled in no PC "and when they catch you, they will kill you... ...but first they must catch you" motto of the scouts Closed Beta Vet
Poncho Polous The Phoenix Federation Proficiency V. 38	Posted - 2014.02.28 18:20:00 - [30] - Quote Jax Saurian wrote: 110+ mil isk One proto suit every two matches is my rule the rest of the time basic gear with militia gear sprinkled in no PC I dont think anyone has a problem with players getting rich the right way by conserving and creating smart fittings, but when people are locking districts to farm more ISK than they could ever spend, it gets ridiculous. Nyain San currently holds 61 districts, lets do some quick mental math here - 80 clones a day per district, 80 clones sell for 8.8M ISK, if all districts remain uncontested for one day that's 61 x 8.8M = 536,800,000 ISK for one days income. now do that for a few months and tell me your worried about losing your 5 or 10 proto suits in a match. And though the fault is on CCP's hands for ever allowing this situation to take place in the first place, we are now left with a small fraction of the players in the game making so much money that they can just pay the top players to ring for them and make it nearly impossible to compete in any real way. Even if they fix the way ISK made in the game, I still think it would take quite some time for the economy to balance back out of favor of those who have already pocketed their billions during this phase. I suppose I can only hope. CEO > The Phoenix Federation > We da BUSSS!! We takin over!

Poncho Polous The Phoenix Federation Proficiency V. 38	Posted - 2014.02.28 18:23:00 - [31] - Quote And then there's the players that made hundreds of files donating their starting ISK to their main file for hours on end. While it is a tedious process, there's definitely a good chunk of players that make some serious coin from doing it. But for some just taking 20-30 minutes a day before they get on is more than enough to pay for them to run proto suits all day in their pub matches. CEO > The Phoenix Federation > We da BUSSS!! We takin over!
Fraceska Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 501	Posted - 2014.02.28 18:28:00 - [32] - Quote Poncho Polous wrote: I dont think anyone has a problem with players getting rich the right way by conserving and creating smart fittings, but when people are locking districts to farm more ISK than they could ever spend, it gets ridiculous. Nyain San currently holds 61 districts, lets do some quick mental math here - 80 clones a day per district, 80 clones sell for 8.8M ISK, if all districts remain uncontested for one day that's 61 x 8.8M = 536,800,000 ISK for one days income. now do that for a few months and tell me your worried about losing your 5 or 10 proto suits in a match. And though the fault is on CCP's hands for ever allowing this situation to take place in the first place, we are now left with a small fraction of the players in the game making so much money that they can just pay the top players to ring for them and make it nearly impossible to compete in any real way. Even if they fix the way ISK made in the game, I still think it would take quite some time for the economy to balance back out of favor of those who have already pocketed their billions during this phase. I suppose I can only hope. One Plex in a single day in the highest region for a Plex. In a F2P game. They need to adjust that immediately.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1788	Posted - 2014.02.28 18:33:00 - [33] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I love how people cry that respecs damage the game when at will respecs would cause less damage than the PC mess has been causing for months now Classic While I do not endorse "at will respecs", I do agree with your assertion. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Closed Beta Bittervet Bomber
Poncho Polous The Phoenix Federation Proficiency V. 38	Posted - 2014.02.28 18:45:00 - [34] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I love how people cry that respecs damage the game when at will respecs would cause less damage than the PC mess has been causing for months now Classic While I do not endorse "at will respecs", I do agree with your assertion. I feel like those are two totally different subjects that do not effect each other in any way. I want fixed PC, and no at will respects, but because PC is messed up I wouldn't then just say screw it let people have respecs as well. One screw up is enough for me :) CEO > The Phoenix Federation > We da BUSSS!! We takin over!
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2995	Posted - 2014.02.28 19:00:00 - [35] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: KatanaPT wrote: PC overly exploited (if you can still say its an exploit because its all made with CCP full knowledge) I am pretty sure lots of the forum posters cried that the clone packs were too expensive and I think CCP changed the price. I will have to check on that but if so then you can't blame CCP for the mess nearly as much. Clone packs are still too expensive. That is if you want to see PC active. It is VERY difficult to beat even an evenly matched team with a clone pack. It's also a reason why you won't see a massive attack on Renegade Alliance. It's too expensive. Timers are the problem in PC, they allow for too much coordination before battles. 24-48 hours is too much time. The number of players actively participating in PC is very small. The number of players that determine victories is much smaller. The timers allow for these players to be called in for battles deemed important enough to hire ringers. It is MUCH cheaper to hire ringers than to capture a district using clone packs. What is alarming is that the overall skill level in Dust is very, very low at the moment and it's only getting worse. Battles are filled with solo players making up at least 50% of each team. In the summer I thought we'd see a spike in activity in PC by this time because more and more players would have enough SP to specialize a role in full proto, but that hasn't been the case. Some of the top corps fight in multiple PC battles everyday and they sync into FW battles together to continue honing their skills as a team. It's no accident that they are more rich and more skilled at the game. ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11826	Posted - 2014.02.28 19:05:00 - [36] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I love how people cry that respecs damage the game when at will respecs would cause less damage than the PC mess has been causing for months now Classic While I do not endorse "at will respecs", I do agree with your assertion. Neither do I, I was simply illustrating my point. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Meknow Intaki 83	Posted - 2014.02.28 19:06:00 - [37] - Quote PC belongs to the 1% =ƒÿÆ
Poncho Polous The Phoenix Federation Proficiency V. 42	Posted - 2014.02.28 19:11:00 - [38] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: KatanaPT wrote: PC overly exploited (if you can still say its an exploit because its all made with CCP full knowledge) I am pretty sure lots of the forum posters cried that the clone packs were too expensive and I think CCP changed the price. I will have to check on that but if so then you can't blame CCP for the mess nearly as much. Clone packs are still too expensive. That is if you want to see PC active. It is VERY difficult to beat even an evenly matched team with a clone pack. It's also a reason why you won't see a massive attack on Renegade Alliance. It's too expensive. Timers are the problem in PC, they allow for too much coordination before battles. 24-48 hours is too much time. The number of players actively participating in PC is very small. The number of players that determine victories is much smaller. The timers allow for these players to be called in for battles deemed important enough to hire ringers. It is MUCH cheaper to hire ringers than to capture a district using clone packs. What is alarming is that the overall skill level in Dust is very, very low at the moment and it's only getting worse. Battles are filled with solo players making up at least 50% of each team. In the summer I thought we'd see a spike in activity in PC by this time because more and more players would have enough SP to specialize a role in full proto, but that hasn't been the case. Some of the top corps fight in multiple PC battles everyday and they sync into FW battles together to continue honing their skills as a team. It's no accident that they are more rich and more skilled at the game. Im not sure that its much cheaper to hire ringers, there are full teams are up into the several hundreds of millions to ring in one battle. But I think a large part in them being ''more skilled'' as a group then most corps is because theyr able to approach all the top players from other corps and offer them pay checks to leave and join their corp that none of the little guys could ever compete with. I'd have lost my top players as well to offers of 50+M a week just to play games in other corps, if not for us building a corp based around loyal players and people who have played together since they started, rather than going after who ever is richest at the time. CEO > The Phoenix Federation > We da BUSSS!! We takin over!
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 386	Posted - 2014.02.28 19:21:00 - [39] - Quote HERES TO THE REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH!! +10 LETS GET PC FARMING FIXED AND REDISTRIBUTE ALL THE ISK THAT HAS BEEN FARMED, FREE ISK FOR EVERYONE NOT INVOLVED IN PC
BMSTUBBY KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 653	Posted - 2014.02.28 19:23:00 - [40] - Quote CCP said that the BPO's are what have caused such a difference, hence the reason why they took em away. They also said that we where getting a rollover SP system so meh, what do they know. Meh, F2P Lobby Shooter BattleDuty 514 Working as intended.

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2995	Posted - 2014.02.28 19:33:00 - [41] - Quote Poncho Polous wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: KatanaPT wrote: PC overly exploited (if you can still say its an exploit because its all made with CCP full knowledge) I am pretty sure lots of the forum posters cried that the clone packs were too expensive and I think CCP changed the price. I will have to check on that but if so then you can't blame CCP for the mess nearly as much. Clone packs are still too expensive. That is if you want to see PC active. It is VERY difficult to beat even an evenly matched team with a clone pack. It's also a reason why you won't see a massive attack on Renegade Alliance. It's too expensive. Timers are the problem in PC, they allow for too much coordination before battles. 24-48 hours is too much time. The number of players actively participating in PC is very small. The number of players that determine victories is much smaller. The timers allow for these players to be called in for battles deemed important enough to hire ringers. It is MUCH cheaper to hire ringers than to capture a district using clone packs. What is alarming is that the overall skill level in Dust is very, very low at the moment and it's only getting worse. Battles are filled with solo players making up at least 50% of each team. In the summer I thought we'd see a spike in activity in PC by this time because more and more players would have enough SP to specialize a role in full proto, but that hasn't been the case. Some of the top corps fight in multiple PC battles everyday and they sync into FW battles together to continue honing their skills as a team. It's no accident that they are more rich and more skilled at the game. Im not sure that its much cheaper to hire ringers, there are full teams are up into the several hundreds of millions to ring in one battle. But I think a large part in them being ''more skilled'' as a group then most corps is because theyr able to approach all the top players from other corps and offer them pay checks to leave and join their corp that none of the little guys could ever compete with. I'd have lost my top players as well to offers of 50+M a week just to play games in other corps, if not for us building a corp based around loyal players and people who have played together since they started, rather than going after who ever is richest at the time. You can find full teams of some rockstar players for 40 mil. It would take 3-5 clone packs minimum to take a district from a competent corp, that's up to 180 million. Again why buying a district is better than trying to take one. ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
CLONE117 True Pros Forever 702	Posted - 2014.02.28 19:39:00 - [42] - Quote a few million made from never running proto is nothing compared to owning most of pc area and making billions a day. and running proto all day long at the same time.
Meknow Intaki 85	Posted - 2014.02.28 20:40:00 - [43] - Quote Even if they made it harder for all these ultra rich corps to come up to hi sec space and proto stomp us. Almost feels like a little burn Jitta every day =ƒÿÉ
abarkrishna WarRavens 319	Posted - 2014.02.28 21:13:00 - [44] - Quote Because CCP gave me 100 million isk when 1.7 came out. And over 300 when Dust went live. Uprising 1.0 That and being stingy with my wallet. No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2. When will they learn!
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2944	Posted - 2014.02.28 21:14:00 - [45] - Quote Allowing a few to become billionaires and throw proto gear around like it was militia for months makes me question CCP's will to make this economy work. Meanwhile they fret about the virtual "losses" they incur as a result of selling BPOs for real money. Losses that are as real as those claimed by recording companies for illegal downloads. It's things like this that temper any enthusiasm I get thinking about the next "evolution" of DUST.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1790	Posted - 2014.02.28 21:40:00 - [46] - Quote Poncho Polous wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I love how people cry that respecs damage the game when at will respecs would cause less damage than the PC mess has been causing for months now Classic While I do not endorse "at will respecs", I do agree with your assertion. I feel like those are two totally different subjects that do not effect each other in any way. I want fixed PC, and no at will respects, but because PC is messed up I wouldn't then just say screw it let people have respecs as well. One screw up is enough for me :) You miss my point. Personally, I think "at will respecs" would ** this game right in the *****, no lube, no warning. Now, having stated that, IMHO, PC has done/will do far more damage than "at will respecs" could ever hope to and it is being allowed to continue. CCP needs to just pull the plug on PC and reclaim all wealth (asset or liquid) that can be traced back to PC. If those who lose Isk wish to leave over that, let them. We'll lose much less of the playerbase by them leaving than we would if the current situation is allowed to continue much longer. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Closed Beta Bittervet Bomber
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 561	Posted - 2014.02.28 21:42:00 - [47] - Quote Meknow Intaki wrote: I was playing some games the other night and half the people I was playing with we're filthy rich going full proto every round well the other half could barly run basic?! Did something go wrong along the way or is this how CCP planed it?! Billionaires Vs. The Poor Grind for a half a year in starter / BPO suits, and you too can be rich. Not only will it give you a huge pile of ISK to play with, at the end your skils will have advanced enough such that you don't die nearly as much....but your KDR will suffer in the interim.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 562	Posted - 2014.02.28 21:49:00 - [48] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: a few million made from never running proto is nothing compared to owning most of pc area and making billions a day. and running proto all day long at the same time. Your numbers, and the impact they have on the few that benefit as a result, are WAY off. The (very few) people making all the money via PC farming were already rich to begin with, and the "billions a day" is just wrong. That doesn't change the fact that farming is going on, and people are profiting from it, but to blame proto stomping on PC farming is a mistake, IMO. The real culprit? Skill and equipment refunds. Respecfully...Leadfoot
Turtle Hermit Roshi D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 192	Posted - 2014.02.28 21:58:00 - [49] - Quote Meknow Intaki wrote: I was playing some games the other night and half the people I was playing with we're filthy rich going full proto every round well the other half could barly run basic?! Did something go wrong along the way or is this how CCP planed it?! Billionaires Vs. The Poor lol its call economic diversity for some to be rich many must be poor Anything worth fighting for is worth fighting dirty for, welcome to New Eden -ill b there SoonGäó KAMEHAMEHA TANK KILLA
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 2907	Posted - 2014.02.28 22:11:00 - [50] - Quote Most of the long-term (Closed Beta) players have BPOs and ran those for months (when it was extremely feasible to survive and dominate with STD fittings) saving up millions of ISK. Uprising 1.0 bought out all of our Market gear for ridiculously high profits. Shortly afterward, there was a glitch that awarded several millions of ISK to players, which CCP admitted was a mistake and asked players not to spend it. The smart ones smelled weakness, spent every dime and got to keep everything they had bought when the inappropriately allocated ISK was removed from all accounts. Then came Planetary Lock Club. Which was recent enough for everybody to see how awesome that is. I GÖú Kittens.

Alternate Insano SUICIDE SPITE SQUAD 200	Posted - 2014.02.28 22:22:00 - [51] - Quote The corps that exploit PC spend money on the game. Basically every flaw this game can be traced back to that. Pay players on a free game always play at the expense of the free to lose players. Look at DCUO, another example of a free to lose game. Subscription players used a mail glitch to destroy the game's economy, and players take group loot they can't use away from players that could use it just they can sell it in the market. The result is a free player cannot advance without opening their wallet. The DC devs love this arrangement. What we have here is very similar. It is funding the game, i.e. supplying a buch of devs with a pay check for screwing the rest of the playerbase. DUST 514 Super Scrub Level 262 Forum Troll Play, or play not. There is no balance.
ReGnYuM Escrow Removal and Acquisition 2329	Posted - 2014.02.28 22:29:00 - [52] - Quote @ The angry mob ready to witchhunt PC players Is the general anger here because PC Corporations are able to PubStomp in full Proto Gear, and because you run pubs, you're unable to afford Proto 24/7? Official Imperfect Title: Supreme Leader of the Endless Sunset I Slay, for thy Empress Do you even PC... Brah
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 1822	Posted - 2014.02.28 22:31:00 - [53] - Quote Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: Poor stay poor either by choice (giving money away mostly) or because they don't know how to manage their wallet Rich stay rich because they don't give their money away and know how to manage their wallet Adn because PC. Mostly PC. Proto is unsustainable with normal Pub payouts, adn PC matches have nigh ended, oh so I have heard. And since they can farm millions if ISK from the districks, and the corp can't spend it on anything, they just hand it out to the Corp members. Districts would be better if they renamed then ISK Printers. Looking for a Interesting Character Name? Why Not Zoidberg?
Fraceska Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 509	Posted - 2014.02.28 22:32:00 - [54] - Quote It is the exploitation of a glitch that concerns me when they are able to take a F2P game and turn it into a game that most of 500,000 people on Eve pay for. That is where I draw the line. Pubstomping would stop if you linked match making to meta levels, the only way to eliminate all factors of gear and bring it back to just skill of those involved. Want to run proto join the proto match making, same for adv/std/militia lower rewards for the lower tiers. Everyone wins.
Fraceska Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 509	Posted - 2014.02.28 22:34:00 - [55] - Quote For your playing the game for competition and fun then you would be in support of a split in the tier/meta system. If you're in it for the lulz and want a quick victory then of course you would be opposed to anything that diminishes the chance of an even fight once gear is made equal to all others in the match.
Ronan Elsword Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 195	Posted - 2014.02.28 22:36:00 - [56] - Quote The fact that CCP hasn't halted all PC income and locked all districts until the problem is fixed is just another reason to lose confidence in CCP. *"War doesn't determine who is right, only who is left."*
Fraceska Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 509	Posted - 2014.02.28 22:37:00 - [57] - Quote Ronan Elsword wrote: The fact that CCP hasn't halted all PC income and locked all districts until the problem is fixed is just another sign of how few fluxes they give. As I said it's BoB all over again.
ReGnYuM Escrow Removal and Acquisition 2330	Posted - 2014.02.28 22:42:00 - [58] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: @ The angry mob ready to witchhunt PC players Is the general anger here because PC Corporations are able to PubStomp in full Proto Gear, and because you run pubs, you're unable to afford Proto 24/7? Guess its a really hard question Official Imperfect Title: Supreme Leader of the Endless Sunset I Slay, for thy Empress Do you even PC... Brah
Fraceska Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 509	Posted - 2014.02.28 22:44:00 - [59] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: @ The angry mob ready to witchhunt PC players Is the general anger here because PC Corporations are able to PubStomp in full Proto Gear, and because you run pubs, you're unable to afford Proto 24/7? Guess its a really hard question Pretty sure I answered your question in both of my posts. Would you run full pro if the system only put you in matches were the other team was going to run full pro? You are playing this for a fair competition right, a game of skill with friends? Or do you do it for the lulz and not care for the overall experience. Seems pretty straight forward to answer.
emtbraincase RETR0 PR0 GAMERS 62	Posted - 2014.02.28 22:47:00 - [60] - Quote 3 pages in and we still haven't figured out this question has a 2 letter answer.....PC you're welcome. P.S. yes it was brought up, but why isn't there a general consensus that this is true. Almost all uuber-rich are farming, or been forever in, PC. Never saw someone with a billion isk any other way.

CYRAX SERVIUS Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 1044	Posted - 2014.02.28 22:50:00 - [61] - Quote Aszazel wrote: ItGÇÖs kind of like, rich begets rich. Once you have full proto in everything your kill/death changes drastically. Shields go from 22, 33, 66. So even from advanced to proto, they are gaining double shields, which mean you have to do double damage to them to kill them and they have to do only half. Now that they stay alive much easier they can hack and kill and gain more points. Then they top the leader board and receive more money as payouts. Or you can pay AUR to get proto as well. Once you get to lvl 3. Running proto at lvl 3 without lvl5 skills and mods is a sure fire way to go broke. CEO Whiskey squad leader Invictus Maneo~"I Remain Unvanquished"~
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 565	Posted - 2014.02.28 22:52:00 - [62] - Quote I run proto virtually 100% of the time. My corp is active in PC and we hold about 10 districts. I have never received a DIME from my corp, except for losses in PC (and $2M I received for a win in PC last night). Ergo, PC has NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on my ability to run proto. I can afford to run proto because (a) the two refunds, (b) six months of grinding with starter/bpo suits, and (c) my skill level (which, compared to some is quite modest). Kind of shoots a hole in the common misunderstanding that a broken PC mechanic leads to protostomping, doesn't it? Is it true that some protostompers use funding from locked districts to enable it? Sure. Is the problem as widespread as some in this thread would have you believe? Not even close.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7767	Posted - 2014.02.28 22:52:00 - [63] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Meknow Intaki wrote: I was playing some games the other night and half the people I was playing with we're filthy rich going full proto every round well the other half could barly run basic?! Did something go wrong along the way or is this how CCP planed it?! Billionaires Vs. The Poor Run only what you can afford to lose = profit. Then run what you want, until you lose too much isk. Back to running what you can afford to lose. It's called managing your income. It isn't hard. Meh you could have circumvented that by joining one of the large PC alliance groups which locked their districts for the last few months. I bet you would have some serious cash if you had. "War is not hell, far from it. War is beautiful. War is divine." - Grand Admiral Mekioth Sarum
ReGnYuM Escrow Removal and Acquisition 2331	Posted - 2014.02.28 23:02:00 - [64] - Quote Fraceska wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: @ The angry mob ready to witchhunt PC players Is the general anger here because PC Corporations are able to PubStomp in full Proto Gear, and because you run pubs, you're unable to afford Proto 24/7? Guess its a really hard question Pretty sure I answered your question in both of my posts. Would you run full pro if the system only put you in matches were the other team was going to run full pro? You are playing this for a fair competition right, a game of skill with friends? Or do you do it for the lulz and not care for the overall experience. Seems pretty straight forward to answer. 1. (*ReGnUm'S eyes lights up with excitement) But good sir, I already play in a system that you have suggested... it is called PC. 2. I love them dem good fights. Furthermore, the plural form of friends does not fit me. I have only one friend and he is the Baby-Slayer. 3. I very do much care! Spaceman and spaceships is serious business! Official Imperfect Title: Supreme Leader of the Endless Sunset I Slay, for thy Empress Do you even PC... Brah
Fraceska Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 509	Posted - 2014.02.28 23:09:00 - [65] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: 1. (*ReGnUm'S eyes lights up with excitement) But good sir, I already play in a system that you have suggested... it is called PC. To which I refer in a non-PC match if the system put you just with other Pro suits were victory was not certain would you run pro suits all of the time? ReGnYuM wrote: 2. I love them dem good fights. Furthermore, the plural form of friends does not fit me. I have only one friend and he is the Baby-Slayer. Then you would support the tier/meta split to ensure "dem good fights" are preserved? ReGnYuM wrote: 3. I very do much care! Spaceman and spaceships is serious business! Vry srs bsns
Meknow Intaki 87	Posted - 2014.02.28 23:16:00 - [66] - Quote What if CCP took away all the districts in PC and after fixing the game up a bit took away everyone's isk so we all had to start at zero =ƒæì
Fraceska Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 509	Posted - 2014.02.28 23:18:00 - [67] - Quote Total reset to 0 with new content and everything that was promised? I would be okay with that.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 10187	Posted - 2014.02.28 23:20:00 - [68] - Quote Fraceska wrote: Total reset to 0 with new content and everything that was promised? I would be okay with that. Yeah, no. "So you spent money on this game? RESET LOL!" You can't even just refund the stuff, because things like BPOs aren't straight refund material. Aside from that, there's the fact that some people have been working on their characters for over a year. Resetting that is seriously bullshit, sorry. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
ReGnYuM Escrow Removal and Acquisition 2333	Posted - 2014.02.28 23:27:00 - [69] - Quote Fraceska wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: 1. (*ReGnUm'S eyes lights up with excitement) But good sir, I already play in a system that you have suggested... it is called PC. To which I refer in a non-PC match if the system put you just with other Pro suits were victory was not certain would you run pro suits all of the time? ReGnYuM wrote: 2. I love them dem good fights. Furthermore, the plural form of friends does not fit me. I have only one friend and he is the Baby-Slayer. Then you would support the tier/meta split to ensure "dem good fights" are preserved? ReGnYuM wrote: 3. I very do much care! Spaceman and spaceships is serious business! Vry srs bsns 1. Why would we have two of the same systems. Furthermore, I will always fight for victory! No matter the cost; no matter the opponent. For the glory of NF! (Salutes NF Flag) 2. Your Tier system will only add more Que time to an already strained playerbase.. There is no such thing as a good fight in Public match. 3. Glad we agree on something Official Imperfect Title: Supreme Leader of the Endless Sunset I Slay, for thy Empress Do you even PC... Brah
ReGnYuM Escrow Removal and Acquisition 2333	Posted - 2014.02.28 23:28:00 - [70] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Fraceska wrote: Total reset to 0 with new content and everything that was promised? I would be okay with that. Yeah, no. "So you spent money on this game? RESET LOL!" You can't even just refund the stuff, because things like BPOs aren't straight refund material. Aside from that, there's the fact that some people have been working on their characters for over a year. Resetting that is seriously bullshit, sorry. very very bad idea Official Imperfect Title: Supreme Leader of the Endless Sunset I Slay, for thy Empress Do you even PC... Brah

Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 3898	Posted - 2014.02.28 23:30:00 - [71] - Quote Does this make me a middle class merc? :/ Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Meknow Intaki 88	Posted - 2014.02.28 23:33:00 - [72] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Fraceska wrote: Total reset to 0 with new content and everything that was promised? I would be okay with that. Yeah, no. "So you spent money on this game? RESET LOL!" You can't even just refund the stuff, because things like BPOs aren't straight refund material. Aside from that, there's the fact that some people have been working on their characters for over a year. Resetting that is seriously bullshit, sorry. very very bad idea I was just talking ISK reset only, you would keep your skill points..
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 388	Posted - 2014.02.28 23:33:00 - [73] - Quote yeah the proto-stomper problem is all district locking related pc is crap anyway ccp should just shut it down and re-design it pc was stupid to release before pve in the first place wtf would they have a crapazz version of skirmish as the mode for pc when we all know that true pc will be fouht across the entire 5km by 5km map when the get the shlt in order and actually start following the damn roadmap or get some properly motivated people working on this game
Fraceska Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 511	Posted - 2014.02.28 23:34:00 - [74] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: 1. Why would we have two of the same systems. Furthermore, I will always fight for victory! No matter the cost; no matter the opponent. For the glory of NF! (Salutes NF Flag) 2. Your Tier system will only add more Que time to an already strained playerbase.. There is no such thing as a good fight in Public match. 3. Glad we agree on something 1 & 2. There needs to be some factor involved that allows for pro suits to be used by those who can afford them have the SP for them. And those who do not. The only way to do both is separate them in some fashion. 3. Indeed. As to my other comment about the reset? I've invested real money, I've played since open beta. There should be some compensation for sponsoring the game at point. Discounted market place, increase SP rate (not to much to overshadow anyone else) or some other tangible benefit.
Meknow Intaki 88	Posted - 2014.02.28 23:35:00 - [75] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Does this make me a middle class merc? :/ I'm upper middle class I think, I got money but not enough to run proto everyday
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4332	Posted - 2014.02.28 23:38:00 - [76] - Quote I love my broken isk income from PC :D GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 5 \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
Fraceska Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 511	Posted - 2014.02.28 23:39:00 - [77] - Quote I could run pro every day but being as that I don't have a corp I won't waste my efforts on blues so they get my much cheaper adv fitting logi.
The Headless Horseman Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 35	Posted - 2014.03.01 00:49:00 - [78] - Quote Meknow Intaki wrote: I was playing some games the other night and half the people I was playing with we're filthy rich going full proto every round well the other half could barly run basic?! Did something go wrong along the way or is this how CCP planed it?! Billionaires Vs. The Poor I've given away close to a billion since the game started. I have tons of BPO's. Lvl 5 core skills make starter fits OP. That and 35mill sp.


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