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A change to FW and making highsec more interesting

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Aisha Ctarl Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3635	Posted - 2014.02.27 21:10:00 - [1] - Quote This is going to tie in with FW and is going to be tough to explain but here's my crack at it. Ok, in EVE you must enlist in the factional army you wish to fight for - there is no "fighting for whichever faction you feel like when you feel like" per se UNLESS you enroll in a different factional army. Currently in DUST there is no system like that, you can just fight for whoever, yes it hurts your standings, but you can still fight for whoever. First off, I would like to see this change where either a CEO of a corporation can enroll their corporation into the factional army of their choosing or a player can forego their corporation to join the factional army of their choosing. Example time - Praetoriani Classiarii Templares can be enrolled into the 24th Imperial Crusade therefore making all of its members members of the Amarrian Factional Warfare Militia. Or let's say you're in Fatal Absolution, but you want to fight for the Caldari Factional Warfare Militia, you can enlist in the State Peacekeepers, but your corp now changes to the State Peacekeepers - you forego your corp. This change would be a bit of a discouragement from "Faction Hopping" and would encourage going "all in" for your faction of choice. My second idea will only work if the first idea is put into place. If players/corporations are enrolled in the militia of their choosing, there would then be highsec ramifications akin to EVE. In a public match on a planet/district owned by the enemy of the militia in which you are enrolled, enemy controlled installations will auto attack you (IE you automatically draw aggro). Example time - PCT (not spelling it out this time) are enrolled with the 24th Imperial Crusade and we go into a pub match. That pub match happens to be on a Minmatar controlled planet in highsec on a Minmatar controlled district. Any installation on that planet will auto attack us (unless destroyed or hacked by us) because we are perceived as the enemy invading their sovereign soil. This will be akin to the warning that you receive in EVE when entering your enemy's highsec space. I could list the ways how we Amarr are better than you, but your lesser mind wouldn't comprehend it.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 10151	Posted - 2014.02.27 21:20:00 - [2] - Quote So I have to leave FA to do FW? Nope. -1. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Aisha Ctarl Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3636	Posted - 2014.02.27 21:23:00 - [3] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: So I have to leave FA to do FW? Nope. -1. Or FA could enroll in a militia - sorry bro, but that's how it works in EVE, all or nothing. I could list the ways how we Amarr are better than you, but your lesser mind wouldn't comprehend it.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 6934	Posted - 2014.02.27 21:34:00 - [4] - Quote The reason CCP doesn't want to do idea 1 is because they don't want to create situations where you can't play with your friends, but that is the whole point of having Public Contracts and Planetary Conquest. Second idea sounds good as well. Mail me in game if interested in learning about the Amarr Empire and serving them in Faction Warfare. Amarr Victor!
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 6934	Posted - 2014.02.27 21:37:00 - [5] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: So I have to leave FA to do FW? Nope. -1. a) Convince FA to enroll in preferred racial militia b) FA enrolls in another militia and you can get your loyalty goods from the player market c) FA enrolls in another militia so you choose to leave for a corp that is enrolled in preferred racial militia d) FA enrolls in another militia, so you join a different corp to participate in your preferred racial militia but can still be dragged into FA's PC matches and still receive payments from FA. Mail me in game if interested in learning about the Amarr Empire and serving them in Faction Warfare. Amarr Victor!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7700	Posted - 2014.02.27 21:39:00 - [6] - Quote I support any movement to bring the EVE side model of FW over to Dust 514. Sign up to a specific Militia, and fight for that Militia. "War is not hell, far from it. War is beautiful. War is divine." - Grand Admiral Mekioth Sarum
Aisha Ctarl Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3639	Posted - 2014.02.27 21:40:00 - [7] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: The reason CCP doesn't want to do idea 1 is because they don't want to create situations where you can't play with your friends, but that is the whole point of having Public Contracts and Planetary Conquest. Second idea sounds good as well. Exactly my point. That is the whole idea behind Public Contracts and PC, allowing people to play with their friends. IMO FW should be a totally different ball game because it is optional and is for those who actually give a damn about the faction we chose. CCP using the excuse that because they want everyone to be able to play with their friends is a rather weak one because as you noted Aero, Pub Matches and PC exist. I could list the ways how we Amarr are better than you, but your lesser mind wouldn't comprehend it.
Viktor Hadah Jr Critical-Impact 2886	Posted - 2014.02.27 21:41:00 - [8] - Quote Open market needs to be rolled out first so if you use Amarr gear but your corp fights for caldari you can sell the caldari gear and buy Amarr. That is how EVE works. Right now it will be silly to say a 100-500 Member corp you will all fight for this faction which gives rewards you most likely have no need for, because not everyone in the corp will use caldari items if you fight for caldari. I use to fight for Gallente in EVE but i used Amarr spaceships so i sold my gallente FW items on the market and bought amarr stuff. Templar BPO(350Mil) EVE Pilot I feed off your tears
XANDER KAG Red Star. EoN. 601	Posted - 2014.02.27 21:41:00 - [9] - Quote So would the entire corp share a standings stat? Example- As members of said corp do battles for its faction, it gets its own "standings". The corps standings could add a multiplier to its members lp payout per level. Say .25 or more per level? (so at level 10 you get 2.5x the payout of someone who is on there own. Who says you can't kill in style? When CCP plays Dust514
Aisha Ctarl Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3639	Posted - 2014.02.27 21:43:00 - [10] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Open market needs to be rolled out first so if you use Amarr gear but your corp fights for caldari you can sell the caldari gear and buy Amarr. That is how EVE works. Right now it will be silly to say a 100-500 Member corp you will all fight for this faction which gives rewards you most likely have no need for. I use to fight for Gallente in EVE but i used Amarr spaceships so i sold my gallente FW items on the market and bought amarr stuff. My point exactly - along with open market, this idea I feel would bring about a positive change for FW and DUST in general, not only will your run of the mill pub match be more exciting due to the turrets auto attacking enemy factions, but we all would also see the economy develop and the ISK flow. I could list the ways how we Amarr are better than you, but your lesser mind wouldn't comprehend it.

Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 6934	Posted - 2014.02.27 21:46:00 - [11] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Open market needs to be rolled out first so if you use Amarr gear but your corp fights for caldari you can sell the caldari gear and buy Amarr. That is how EVE works. Right now it will be silly to say a 100-500 Member corp you will all fight for this faction which gives rewards you most likely have no need for, because not everyone in the corp will use caldari items if you fight for caldari. I use to fight for Gallente in EVE but i used Amarr spaceships so i sold my gallente FW items on the market and bought amarr stuff. Absolutely Mail me in game if interested in learning about the Amarr Empire and serving them in Faction Warfare. Amarr Victor!
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5143	Posted - 2014.02.27 21:52:00 - [12] - Quote So basically if someone fights for the Minmatar, but the corp fights for a different faction the person's only options would be to betray their faction, or leave their corporation? I have a better idea. How about we implement XANDER's idea instead. That way you aren't forced to leave the corp or betray your faction, but actually have an incentive to fight with your corporation's faction. And no, "because that's how it is in EVE" is not a valid argument. This is a First Person Shooter, while EVE Online is a Space-Simulator MMO. Because of them belonging to different genres, you cannot expect every mechanic you see in EVE to work DUST side. Furthermore, what would be the point? This offers no statistical advantage, and would only serve to force people to either leave their corporation, or betray their faction. Additionally, "Because EVE" won't fly when your trying to convince people to do something, especially something that would put most players at an incredible disadvantage, while only serving to benefit a few people. TL:DR? No. Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub [s]Text[/s] <---------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 10156	Posted - 2014.02.27 21:55:00 - [13] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: So I have to leave FA to do FW? Nope. -1. Or FA could enroll in a militia - sorry bro, but that's how it works in EVE, all or nothing. Do you seriously want to kill off the FW playerbase even further? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7703	Posted - 2014.02.27 21:59:00 - [14] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Aisha Ctarl wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: So I have to leave FA to do FW? Nope. -1. Or FA could enroll in a militia - sorry bro, but that's how it works in EVE, all or nothing. Do you seriously want to kill off the FW playerbase even further? There is not FW playerbase in Dust just corps farming content from a broken system....no loyalty, no consequences, no value to your actions. "War is not hell, far from it. War is beautiful. War is divine." - Grand Admiral Mekioth Sarum
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5143	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:05:00 - [15] - Quote True Adamance wrote: There is not FW playerbase in Dust just corps farming content from a broken system....no loyalty, no consequences, no value to your actions. Loyalty is never something that should be referenced in New Eden. Anyways, and what about those who do have loyalty? I can guarantee that very few people would agree with something that forces them to either leave their corp, or betray their faction. Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub [s]Text[/s] <---------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 10156	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:07:00 - [16] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Aisha Ctarl wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: So I have to leave FA to do FW? Nope. -1. Or FA could enroll in a militia - sorry bro, but that's how it works in EVE, all or nothing. Do you seriously want to kill off the FW playerbase even further? There is not FW playerbase in Dust just corps farming content from a broken system....no loyalty, no consequences, no value to your actions. Okay. Well, you restrict that to a small handful of people and see how it evolves. Why, instead of 5-10 minute waits you might even get to 30 mins! You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7706	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:09:00 - [17] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: True Adamance wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Aisha Ctarl wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: So I have to leave FA to do FW? Nope. -1. Or FA could enroll in a militia - sorry bro, but that's how it works in EVE, all or nothing. Do you seriously want to kill off the FW playerbase even further? There is not FW playerbase in Dust just corps farming content from a broken system....no loyalty, no consequences, no value to your actions. Okay. Well, you restrict that to a small handful of people and see how it evolves. Why, instead of 5-10 minute waits you might even get to 30 mins! I'm not saying that's perhaps the correct course......but something has to be done.....its unbalancing enough as is, and some how, either through pure grit or experience despite the broken mess of fw ad negative modifiers from Dust Amarr FW eve side has endured........ I wish I knew how they were doing it. "War is not hell, far from it. War is beautiful. War is divine." - Grand Admiral Mekioth Sarum
Aisha Ctarl Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3643	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:11:00 - [18] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: There is not FW playerbase in Dust just corps farming content from a broken system....no loyalty, no consequences, no value to your actions. Loyalty is never something that should be referenced in New Eden. Anyways, and what about those who do have loyalty? I can guarantee that very few people would agree with something that forces them to either leave their corp, or betray their faction. Do you really see people in EVE whining and moaning that "boo hoo, my corp is enrolled in Gallente FW, but I wanna do Caldari! boo hoo boo hoo" - yeah if there is a conflict of interest like that, they simply leave. So far there are ZERO consequences for your actions in DUST - currently you can fight for Minmatar, then a match later fight for Amarr if you desire, it makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER. The moment I think of an idea that more or less forces people to make an actual choice, people immediately shut it down and go into a tizzy. Hell, even the faction you choice in this game makes no difference besides your MQ and dropsuit appearance. I could list the ways how we Amarr are better than you, but your lesser mind wouldn't comprehend it.
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 319	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:12:00 - [19] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: There is not FW playerbase in Dust just corps farming content from a broken system....no loyalty, no consequences, no value to your actions. Loyalty is never something that should be referenced in New Eden. Anyways, and what about those who do have loyalty? I can guarantee that very few people would agree with something that forces them to either leave their corp, or betray their faction. The bigger the corp, the harder this gets. All this would do is cause Alliances to set up Faction Corps under the Alliance. Meh, I could take this idea or leave it. I'm not super up on the know how, and my EVE players are unavailable, but, it is just corps that decide who you can fight for, not alliances, right? xSivartx is my Heavy. There are many like him, but he is my own... So, other Logi's back off, those are my Warpoints!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7706	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:14:00 - [20] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: There is not FW playerbase in Dust just corps farming content from a broken system....no loyalty, no consequences, no value to your actions. Loyalty is never something that should be referenced in New Eden. Anyways, and what about those who do have loyalty? I can guarantee that very few people would agree with something that forces them to either leave their corp, or betray their faction. Tell that to the 10 years of Amarr FW PIE Inc has put into New Eden. "War is not hell, far from it. War is beautiful. War is divine." - Grand Admiral Mekioth Sarum

Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 10160	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:15:00 - [21] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Okay. Well, you restrict that to a small handful of people and see how it evolves. Why, instead of 5-10 minute waits you might even get to 30 mins! I'm not saying that's perhaps the correct course......but something has to be done.....its unbalancing enough as is, and some how, either through pure grit or experience despite the broken mess of fw ad negative modifiers from Dust Amarr FW eve side has endured........ I wish I knew how they were doing it. Iteration is needed on FW, yes. This is not the way to do it. What are you expecting this change will achieve? It'll remove most casual FW players from FW, leaving a tiny group of FW nuts. That is all it would do. It would not make FW more fulfilling or rewarding. It would just bump up the queue times massively. I get the strong impression that you are disgruntled with the Amarr losing and as a result you want to restrict it to just your small FW groups. Hey, maybe that might have a -slight- effect on balance (although people are likely to just enlist with the currently winning factions, if they enlist at all) but it'd come at the cost of a massive queue time for very little gain. Is that really what you want? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
da GAND L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 405	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:18:00 - [22] - Quote This is actually a good idea, even though a lot of people won't like it. It makes FW much more serious, and might just might keep the noobs out of it unless they are fully committed noobs. How does it work in EVE when someone wants to change factions? Is their a certain amount of time they have to wait before they can switch to another faction after they leave? After Uprisings release the forums were a bad place, I'll never forget how CCP screwed up so badly.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7708	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:19:00 - [23] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: True Adamance wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Okay. Well, you restrict that to a small handful of people and see how it evolves. Why, instead of 5-10 minute waits you might even get to 30 mins! I'm not saying that's perhaps the correct course......but something has to be done.....its unbalancing enough as is, and some how, either through pure grit or experience despite the broken mess of fw ad negative modifiers from Dust Amarr FW eve side has endured........ I wish I knew how they were doing it. Iteration is needed on FW, yes. This is not the way to do it. What are you expecting this change will achieve? It'll remove most casual FW players from FW, leaving a tiny group of FW nuts. That is all it would do. It would not make FW more fulfilling or rewarding. It would just bump up the queue times massively. I get the strong impression that you are disgruntled with the Amarr losing and as a result you want to restrict it to just your small FW groups. Hey, maybe that might have a -slight- effect on balance (although people are likely to just enlist with the currently winning factions, if they enlist at all) but it'd come at the cost of a massive queue time for very little gain. Is that really what you want? Is Dust Scussions still an active channel on Skype for discussion? Perhaps this weekend we could get some of the FW minded players and knowledgeable eve players to chew the fat on this? Skype is a far better forum for discussion than Dust 514 forum. "War is not hell, far from it. War is beautiful. War is divine." - Grand Admiral Mekioth Sarum
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2083	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:20:00 - [24] - Quote Personally I'm a mercanry, I'll fight for who pays me the best. Thats meant to be the distinction between us and the gel-breathers, we don't have loyalty to anything but the next paycheck. No offence but -1, I want to be mercanry, I would prefer bigger penalties for fighting on opposing sides sure, but not like this. Combat Engineer in training. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 6941	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:21:00 - [25] - Quote Atiim wrote: So basically if someone fights for the Minmatar, but the corp fights for a different faction the person's only options would be to betray their faction, or leave their corporation? I have a better idea. How about we implement XANDER's idea instead. That way you aren't forced to leave the corp or betray your faction, but actually have an incentive to fight with your corporation's faction. And no, "because that's how it is in EVE" is not a valid argument. This is a First Person Shooter, while EVE Online is a Space-Simulator MMO. Because of them belonging to different genres, you cannot expect every mechanic you see in EVE to work DUST side. Furthermore, what would be the point? This offers no statistical advantage, and would only serve to force people to either leave their corporation, or betray their faction. Additionally, "Because EVE" won't fly when your trying to convince people to do something, especially something that would put most players at an incredible disadvantage, while only serving to benefit a few people. TL:DR? No. You aren't thinking this through very much. There are far more options than betray your faction or betray your corporation. If for instance you want to fight Gallente FW for their gear but your corp does Caldari FW, you can simply play Caldari FW with your corp and see the Gallente goods you acquire through LP in exchange for ISK that you can use to purchase the Caldari gear you want. Yes this assumes an open player market which should come eventually. Mail me in game if interested in learning about the Amarr Empire and serving them in Faction Warfare. Amarr Victor!
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 6941	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:22:00 - [26] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Personally I'm a mercanry, I'll fight for who pays me the best. Thats meant to be the distinction between us and the gel-breathers, we don't have loyalty to anything but the next paycheck. No offence but -1, I want to be mercanry, I would prefer bigger penalties for fighting on opposing sides sure, but not like this. Don't all factions pay you the same, though? Mail me in game if interested in learning about the Amarr Empire and serving them in Faction Warfare. Amarr Victor!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7708	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:24:00 - [27] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Personally I'm a mercanry, I'll fight for who pays me the best. Thats meant to be the distinction between us and the gel-breathers, we don't have loyalty to anything but the next paycheck. No offence but -1, I want to be mercanry, I would prefer bigger penalties for fighting on opposing sides sure, but not like this. You have public matches to be a mercenary in. Or PC. Leave FW to the loyalists. "War is not hell, far from it. War is beautiful. War is divine." - Grand Admiral Mekioth Sarum
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5143	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:27:00 - [28] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Personally I'm a mercanry, I'll fight for who pays me the best. Thats meant to be the distinction between us and the gel-breathers, we don't have loyalty to anything but the next paycheck. No offence but -1, I want to be mercanry, I would prefer bigger penalties for fighting on opposing sides sure, but not like this. You have public matches to be a mercenary in. Or PC. Leave FW to the loyalists. You mean put all the loyalists in the same corp, because individuality and choice be damned. Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub [s]Text[/s] <---------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 10160	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:27:00 - [29] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Personally I'm a mercanry, I'll fight for who pays me the best. Thats meant to be the distinction between us and the gel-breathers, we don't have loyalty to anything but the next paycheck. No offence but -1, I want to be mercanry, I would prefer bigger penalties for fighting on opposing sides sure, but not like this. You have public matches to be a mercenary in. Or PC. Leave FW to the loyalists. Uh-huh. And watch it stagnate even further and die because there aren't enough of you. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 6943	Posted - 2014.02.27 22:29:00 - [30] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Personally I'm a mercanry, I'll fight for who pays me the best. Thats meant to be the distinction between us and the gel-breathers, we don't have loyalty to anything but the next paycheck. No offence but -1, I want to be mercanry, I would prefer bigger penalties for fighting on opposing sides sure, but not like this. You have public matches to be a mercenary in. Or PC. Leave FW to the loyalists. You mean put all the loyalists in the same corp, because individuality and choice be damned. Same militia (because you are fighting for the same thing as everyone else who selects to fight for that same faction as you). There will still be a wide array of different corporations. Mail me in game if interested in learning about the Amarr Empire and serving them in Faction Warfare. Amarr Victor!



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