DUST Search - Proof the RR is OP - Proto Breach AR vs. standard RR

Melchiah ARANeAE wrote:

Oxskull Duncarino wrote:

Firstly, 1 mil isn't that much. Secondly, if you make variants just as good as the original weapon they copied, where's the incentive to use different racial weapons. Each race has a strength to their main weapon design that other races can try but not fully succed in emulating. It pushes diversity in choice.

Although, if CCP did what you think should be done, I wouldn't mind playing with a tac AR that had a charged shot :D

I think you're kind of missing the point. What I'm saying is that you should use your races weapons as the suit is designed to work well with that weapon and should make that weapon (and it's variants) better than another races weapon on that same suit. If you use a Gal assault, you 'should' use the AR. If you run Cal assault, you 'should' run RR etc. (and by should, I mean from a min/maxing point of view. Feel free to use another races weapon if you're happy with it not being as efficient.)

EVE is set up so the ships get good bonuses to their racial turrets and such have an incentive to stick with that turret type. This is how it should be in Dust.

And I don't really see the variants as copies as the other rifles. They're just variants of the basic type (clue's in the name really). Much like there are variants of turrets in EVE.

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Th3rdSun L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 577	Posted - 2014.02.14 23:52:00 - [61] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Yah but, the BAR has alwayse been a piece of junk, even at proto. Obviously you weren't here for the E3 build when the CreoDron was godlike. All the range of the Duvolle with more base damage.
Jacques Cayton II Providence Guard Templis CALSF 597	Posted - 2014.02.15 00:33:00 - [62] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: CreoDron Breach Assault Rifle Damage - 56.1 HP Fire rate -400 RPM Accuracy - 58.0 Mag size - 36 Max Ammo - 300 Reload time - 3.0 s CPU - 90 gF PG - 13 kW Price - 77,280! ISK Standard Rail Rifle Damage - 55.00 HP Charge up - 0.25s Fire rate - 461.54 RPM Accuracy rating - 58.28 Mag size - 42 Max Ammo - 252 Reload time - 3.2 s CPU - 26 gF PG - 6 kW Price - 1,500 ISK The Stadard Rail Rifle has a higher fire rate, better accuracy costs a ton less, less requirements, better hipfire, bigger mag and loses to the CreoDron by only 1.1 damage... How did CCP expect the Rail Rifle to be balanced? Seriously the standard Rail Rifle is everything the PROTO Breach AR is and more. CCP, fix this, EDIT* Some of you say that variant are suppose to be bad, but have you picked up the ASCR, ARR or ACR? They are just as good, and in some instances better, than the AR, the weapon they are are "knocking off". hey bro the breach is a knockoff of the RR so yes the rr should be better stop complining you nerftards won the nerf bat is in full swing yet again We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 3206	Posted - 2014.02.15 00:36:00 - [63] - Quote Yes, they won. And still, their mouths run. Which means, they are just debating a point, just to debate a point. Far from entertaining. I hope the RR continues to destroy the RR whiners with extreme prejudice. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 3114	Posted - 2014.02.15 00:43:00 - [64] - Quote And the Tac isn't as good as the Scrambler, nor the Burst as good as the Combat. Do you know how weapon variants work? No.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 4173	Posted - 2014.02.15 00:56:00 - [65] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: And the Tac isn't as good as the Scrambler, nor the Burst as good as the Combat. Do you know how weapon variants work? Then nerf the Assault/Scrambler Rifle-CR-RR. I find it extremely distasteful that full auto variants of other racial rifles are just as good as the AR but the variants the AR have a useless. If variants are going to be bad, they should be bad across all races, no exceptions. My alts: General John Ripper, Draxus Prime, MoonEagle A, Anarchide, Long Evity And this is why I am the #1 forum warrior
TEXA5 HiTM4N ROGUE SPADES 429	Posted - 2014.02.15 01:05:00 - [66] - Quote wolfman and his team have never released a weapon that was anywhere near balanced. you can't expect much out of them. remember this is the team that released a sidearm that had more damage and radius than a proto missile launcher and said "yep, that is game ready". Everything I say or do has the utmost importance.
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 501	Posted - 2014.02.15 02:10:00 - [67] - Quote To people that say the variants shouldn't be as good as the other rifles are, frankly, complete idiots. If the variants are no good, why bother using them? The choice of what rifle to use should be decided by what your chosen race/suit is. The racial assault and commando suits will give bonuses to their racial weapon types and the variants add to the list of weapons affected by these bonuses. If I run a Gal assault with it's bonus to Plasma weapons, would I want to use to have to use the ScR if I wanted a semi-auto rifle? Or a CR for burst? Also, the variants will benefit from the SP I've sunk into the various support skills for the AR. Would I want to use any other weapons If I'd sunk 1 million SP into ARs We want cake and tea.
Oxskull Duncarino Tickle My Null-Sac 431	Posted - 2014.02.15 02:22:00 - [68] - Quote Melchiah ARANeAE wrote: To people that say the variants shouldn't be as good as the other rifles are, frankly, complete idiots. If the variants are no good, why bother using them? The choice of what rifle to use should be decided by what your chosen race/suit is. The racial assault and commando suits will give bonuses to their racial weapon types and the variants add to the list of weapons affected by these bonuses. If I run a Gal assault with it's bonus to Plasma weapons, would I want to use to have to use the ScR if I wanted a semi-auto rifle? Or a CR for burst? Also, the variants will benefit from the SP I've sunk into the various support skills for the AR. Would I want to use any other weapons If I'd sunk 1 million SP into ARs Firstly, 1 mil isn't that much. Secondly, if you make variants just as good as the original weapon they copied, where's the incentive to use different racial weapons. Each race has a strength to their main weapon design that other races can try but not fully succed in emulating. It pushes diversity in choice. Although, if CCP did what you think should be done, I wouldn't mind playing with a tac AR that had a charged shot :D
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 4181	Posted - 2014.02.15 02:33:00 - [69] - Quote Oxskull Duncarino wrote: Melchiah ARANeAE wrote: To people that say the variants shouldn't be as good as the other rifles are, frankly, complete idiots. If the variants are no good, why bother using them? The choice of what rifle to use should be decided by what your chosen race/suit is. The racial assault and commando suits will give bonuses to their racial weapon types and the variants add to the list of weapons affected by these bonuses. If I run a Gal assault with it's bonus to Plasma weapons, would I want to use to have to use the ScR if I wanted a semi-auto rifle? Or a CR for burst? Also, the variants will benefit from the SP I've sunk into the various support skills for the AR. Would I want to use any other weapons If I'd sunk 1 million SP into ARs Firstly, 1 mil isn't that much. Secondly, if you make variants just as good as the original weapon they copied, where's the incentive to use different racial weapons. Each race has a strength to their main weapon design that other races can try but not fully succed in emulating. It pushes diversity in choice. Although, if CCP did what you think should be done, I wouldn't mind playing with a tac AR that had a charged shot :D They shouldn't shoot as well as the real weapons but they should be competitive. My alts: General John Ripper, Draxus Prime, MoonEagle A, Anarchide, Long Evity And this is why I am the #1 forum warrior
Oxskull Duncarino Tickle My Null-Sac 432	Posted - 2014.02.15 02:39:00 - [70] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Oxskull Duncarino wrote: Melchiah ARANeAE wrote: To people that say the variants shouldn't be as good as the other rifles are, frankly, complete idiots. If the variants are no good, why bother using them? The choice of what rifle to use should be decided by what your chosen race/suit is. The racial assault and commando suits will give bonuses to their racial weapon types and the variants add to the list of weapons affected by these bonuses. If I run a Gal assault with it's bonus to Plasma weapons, would I want to use to have to use the ScR if I wanted a semi-auto rifle? Or a CR for burst? Also, the variants will benefit from the SP I've sunk into the various support skills for the AR. Would I want to use any other weapons If I'd sunk 1 million SP into ARs Firstly, 1 mil isn't that much. Secondly, if you make variants just as good as the original weapon they copied, where's the incentive to use different racial weapons. Each race has a strength to their main weapon design that other races can try but not fully succed in emulating. It pushes diversity in choice. Although, if CCP did what you think should be done, I wouldn't mind playing with a tac AR that had a charged shot :D They shouldn't shoot as well as the real weapons but they should be competitive. Exactly. If they're not competitive then we might as well not have them as options.

Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 501	Posted - 2014.02.15 02:46:00 - [71] - Quote Oxskull Duncarino wrote: Firstly, 1 mil isn't that much. Secondly, if you make variants just as good as the original weapon they copied, where's the incentive to use different racial weapons. Each race has a strength to their main weapon design that other races can try but not fully succed in emulating. It pushes diversity in choice. Although, if CCP did what you think should be done, I wouldn't mind playing with a tac AR that had a charged shot :D I think you're kind of missing the point. What I'm saying is that you should use your races weapons as the suit is designed to work well with that weapon and should make that weapon (and it's variants) better than another races weapon on that same suit. If you use a Gal assault, you 'should' use the AR. If you run Cal assault, you 'should' run RR etc. (and by should, I mean from a min/maxing point of view. Feel free to use another races weapon if you're happy with it not being as efficient.) EVE is set up so the ships get good bonuses to their racial turrets and such have an incentive to stick with that turret type. This is how it should be in Dust. And I don't really see the variants as copies as the other rifles. They're just variants of the basic type (clue's in the name really). Much like there are variants of turrets in EVE. We want cake and tea.
Oxskull Duncarino Tickle My Null-Sac 432	Posted - 2014.02.15 02:59:00 - [72] - Quote Melchiah ARANeAE wrote: Oxskull Duncarino wrote: Firstly, 1 mil isn't that much. Secondly, if you make variants just as good as the original weapon they copied, where's the incentive to use different racial weapons. Each race has a strength to their main weapon design that other races can try but not fully succed in emulating. It pushes diversity in choice. Although, if CCP did what you think should be done, I wouldn't mind playing with a tac AR that had a charged shot :D I think you're kind of missing the point. What I'm saying is that you should use your races weapons as the suit is designed to work well with that weapon and should make that weapon (and it's variants) better than another races weapon on that same suit. If you use a Gal assault, you 'should' use the AR. If you run Cal assault, you 'should' run RR etc. (and by should, I mean from a min/maxing point of view. Feel free to use another races weapon if you're happy with it not being as efficient.) EVE is set up so the ships get good bonuses to their racial turrets and such have an incentive to stick with that turret type. This is how it should be in Dust. And I don't really see the variants as copies as the other rifles. They're just variants of the basic type (clue's in the name really). Much like there are variants of turrets in EVE. Are you new here or something. From the developers of Dust itself we know, and have known for a long time, that the variants are attempted copies of the other races rifles, and that the intention is for them to be not as powerful as the original. Since this has already been explained in this thread I presume you're just lazy. And much as there are moves to bring some mechanics over, this is NOT EvE. At present only 50% of suits after 1.8 will have benefits to their racial weapons, and that could very easily change to less. Do yourself a favour and actually read through the thread before commenting. Just because YOU think something should be the same as EvE doesn't change the fact it's not, by the Devs own intentions.
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 214	Posted - 2014.02.15 03:32:00 - [73] - Quote I agree, the variants should be inferior to the original. However that means that each of the assault variants need to be pulled back some, so they don't compete as well with the AR. To balance this though the racial assault suit should improve them enough in the race's intended niche that they become valid options.


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