|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Oxskull Duncarino
Tickle My Null-Sac
426
   |
Posted - 2014.02.14 08:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:CreoDron Breach Assault Rifle
Damage - 56.1 HP
Fire rate -400 RPM
Accuracy - 58.0
Mag size - 36
Max Ammo - 300
Reload time - 3.0 s
CPU - 90 gF
PG - 13 kW
Price - 77,280! ISK
Standard Rail Rifle
Damage - 55.00 HP
Charge up - 0.25s
Fire rate - 461.54 RPM
Accuracy rating - 58.28
Mag size - 42
Max Ammo - 252
Reload time - 3.2 s
CPU - 26 gF
PG - 6 kW
Price - 1,500 ISK
The Stadard Rail Rifle has a higher fire rate, better accuracy costs a ton less, less requirements, better hipfire, bigger mag and loses to the CreoDron by only 1.1 damage...
How did CCP expect the Rail Rifle to be balanced? Seriously the standard Rail Rifle is everything the PROTO Breach AR is and more.
CCP, fix this,
EDIT*
Some of you say that variant are suppose to be bad, but have you picked up the ASCR, ARR or ACR? They are just as good, and in some instances better, than the AR, the weapon they are are "knocking off".
Yeh, this has been annoying me for a while. Even with full proficiency in the AR I do better using a basic rail with op 1 than using the breach ar. I've found the same with the burst AR and the combat rifle.
|
Oxskull Duncarino
Tickle My Null-Sac
427
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 17:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Afaik, Breach AR, Tactical AR and the Burst AR were placeholders rispectively for Rail Rifle, Scrambler Rifle and Combat Rifle.
In other words, they shouldn't even exist anymore!
Just Imagine a tactical variant of the rail rifle...
No they're not and were never placeholders for the other racial rifles, and this is from CCP themselves. Each race has a specific style of weapon, and then they have variants that attempt to copy other races styles. Gallente are the only ones with a full range, but all other races are to get theirs soon................tm  The variants are suppose to be subpar to the originals they're based on but the Gallente plasma versions are absolute dirt in their present iteration, as it's massively cheaper AND more effective to spend just 12,000 SP for operations 1 and use a basic original of the weapon. Hopefully all the light weapon tweaks that are happening for 1.8 will bring the variants into line, and even maybe introduce other races to their variants. All we can do is live in hope |
Oxskull Duncarino
Tickle My Null-Sac
428
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 17:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tectonic Fusion wrote:+1 to comparing an UP weapon to an OP weapon!
Regardless of what descriptive qualities have been associated with the breach plasma rifle, as per CCP's own words, the breach is the Gallente's attempt to copy the Caldari's rail rifle. So the idea of comparing them is causing what exact issue for you? |
Oxskull Duncarino
Tickle My Null-Sac
428
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 18:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Texs Red wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:
This is not an AR vs. RR thread. It's a Proto Breach AR vs. standard RR threard.
The Breach AR is just not comparable in any way against RR, even though the TAR is comparable to the Scrambler Rifle and the Burst is slightly comparable to the CR.
The fact is that pre-Uprising CCP nerfed all the AR variants into the ground but when they introduced the new rifles they came with legitimate variants that work. The Tac AR, Burst AR, and Breach AR all need de-nerfed so they are again legitimate options to the AR. My opinion is to put them on par, damage wise, with the weapon they are supposed to mimic and the fact that their range is less is the limiting factor that prevents them from out competing the classic example. My thoughts: The Breach AR is brought up to RR DPS with a slight increase to ROF and damage. This makes it excellent for CQC fights but it's range is only slightly better than the regular AR and clearly worse than the actually RR. Clip 36, ROF 450, Damage at proto 62, DPS 465, Damage per clip 2,232 The Tac AR needs to have it's kick de-nerfed and regain some of it's clip size, perhaps 32 instead of the current 18. With the buff to heavies that is coming in 1.8 it could very well lack the damage per clip to kill a heavy. It's damage per clip will still be less than the scramber rifle and it's ROF as well. Damage per clip: 2513, DPS: 523.6 (only possible with a modded controller) Currently the burst AR is inferior in every aspect to the CR; it has less range, less damage, and a lower ROF than the CR. I say increase it's damage to 42.41 per shot in a 3 shot burst. Damage per clip: 2,664; DPS: 625 (impossible to reach with the refire delay)
I wouldn't even increase the clip on the tac AR, just removing the kick would do. Maybe slightly increase its RPMs. As it stands both weapons can spam the trigger and both either have to reload, the tac AR, or cool down, the scrambler rifle, at about the same rounds fired point. Obviously the scrambler rifle gets to this point faster due to its RPM, but it is suppose to be better than the tac as it's an original, plus it comes with the ability to charge a shot. The tac AR has a better balance on damage between shield and armour damage so it helps go towards negating those extra bonus' the scrambler has without being actually better/equal.
The breach at the very least needs a range increase to get close to the rail rifle, not very close but up there. Its advantage is that it doesn't have the charge time a rail rifle has, but that won't be enough of an advantage to make it better/equal. damage and RPM I'd be happy leaving as is to first see how these changes apply. |
Oxskull Duncarino
Tickle My Null-Sac
431
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 02:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Melchiah ARANeAE wrote:To people that say the variants shouldn't be as good as the other rifles are, frankly, complete idiots. If the variants are no good, why bother using them?
The choice of what rifle to use should be decided by what your chosen race/suit is. The racial assault and commando suits will give bonuses to their racial weapon types and the variants add to the list of weapons affected by these bonuses. If I run a Gal assault with it's bonus to Plasma weapons, would I want to use to have to use the ScR if I wanted a semi-auto rifle? Or a CR for burst?
Also, the variants will benefit from the SP I've sunk into the various support skills for the AR. Would I want to use any other weapons If I'd sunk 1 million SP into ARs
Firstly, 1 mil isn't that much. Secondly, if you make variants just as good as the original weapon they copied, where's the incentive to use different racial weapons. Each race has a strength to their main weapon design that other races can try but not fully succed in emulating. It pushes diversity in choice.
Although, if CCP did what you think should be done, I wouldn't mind playing with a tac AR that had a charged shot :D |
Oxskull Duncarino
Tickle My Null-Sac
432
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 02:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Oxskull Duncarino wrote:Melchiah ARANeAE wrote:To people that say the variants shouldn't be as good as the other rifles are, frankly, complete idiots. If the variants are no good, why bother using them?
The choice of what rifle to use should be decided by what your chosen race/suit is. The racial assault and commando suits will give bonuses to their racial weapon types and the variants add to the list of weapons affected by these bonuses. If I run a Gal assault with it's bonus to Plasma weapons, would I want to use to have to use the ScR if I wanted a semi-auto rifle? Or a CR for burst?
Also, the variants will benefit from the SP I've sunk into the various support skills for the AR. Would I want to use any other weapons If I'd sunk 1 million SP into ARs Firstly, 1 mil isn't that much. Secondly, if you make variants just as good as the original weapon they copied, where's the incentive to use different racial weapons. Each race has a strength to their main weapon design that other races can try but not fully succed in emulating. It pushes diversity in choice. Although, if CCP did what you think should be done, I wouldn't mind playing with a tac AR that had a charged shot :D They shouldn't shoot as well as the real weapons but they should be competitive.
Exactly. If they're not competitive then we might as well not have them as options. |
Oxskull Duncarino
Tickle My Null-Sac
432
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 02:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Melchiah ARANeAE wrote:Oxskull Duncarino wrote:Firstly, 1 mil isn't that much. Secondly, if you make variants just as good as the original weapon they copied, where's the incentive to use different racial weapons. Each race has a strength to their main weapon design that other races can try but not fully succed in emulating. It pushes diversity in choice.
Although, if CCP did what you think should be done, I wouldn't mind playing with a tac AR that had a charged shot :D I think you're kind of missing the point. What I'm saying is that you should use your races weapons as the suit is designed to work well with that weapon and should make that weapon (and it's variants) better than another races weapon on that same suit. If you use a Gal assault, you 'should' use the AR. If you run Cal assault, you 'should' run RR etc. (and by should, I mean from a min/maxing point of view. Feel free to use another races weapon if you're happy with it not being as efficient.) EVE is set up so the ships get good bonuses to their racial turrets and such have an incentive to stick with that turret type. This is how it should be in Dust. And I don't really see the variants as copies as the other rifles. They're just variants of the basic type (clue's in the name really). Much like there are variants of turrets in EVE.
Are you new here or something. From the developers of Dust itself we know, and have known for a long time, that the variants are attempted copies of the other races rifles, and that the intention is for them to be not as powerful as the original. Since this has already been explained in this thread I presume you're just lazy.
And much as there are moves to bring some mechanics over, this is NOT EvE. At present only 50% of suits after 1.8 will have benefits to their racial weapons, and that could very easily change to less. Do yourself a favour and actually read through the thread before commenting. Just because YOU think something should be the same as EvE doesn't change the fact it's not, by the Devs own intentions. |
|
|
| |
|