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BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1862	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:26:00 - [1] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: To clarify a bit of translation : Assaults are not supposed to be ones being the ones exposed to combat, they're the ones exposing others to combat. HP recoverability would be more in theme in this as it less down time taking a breather before pressuring back on the enemy again but this is better saved for type 2s if that ever happened again which unfortunately until their icde happens is not looking good on the forecast. CCP Saberwing wrote: OKAY OKAY! Since you asked so nicely...this is what we're thinking. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: +5% to reload speed of hybrid railgun light/sidearm weapons per level. - Gallente Assault: 5% reduction to hybrid - blaster light/sidearm hip-fire dispersion and kick per level. - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. Logistics [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment] - Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. - Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. - Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. - Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level. Will copy + paste this in to the Feedback thread too. I am very confused as to what the roles of Dust 514 are. If the Assault is not the main combat suit then who is? As being a part of the CPM there are things IWS knows that we do not, but the lack of transparency does not give clarification as to what this statement means when looked outside of the context of just the assault suit. As for the stats of the assault suits some of these changes added to the weapons in the state they are in could make them extremely powerful, like the mass driver. For these we would need some transparency on weapon stats etc, for example what justifies giving the Gallente assault that bonus? Is the AR getting needed even more that this bonus is actually needed? In its current state the AR doesn't need that bonus and in fact would actually nerf the weapon, instead that something? A bonus that nerfs a weapon. Anyways, we need some clarification as to why you are doing these changes the way you are doing them. What is your goal, what are your plans for the suit roles, weapons, how are you planning on changing the combat pace of the game the direction of battle. Basically what is it that you hope 1.8 accomplishes. Armor and Shields are not the same!
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2066	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:30:00 - [2] - Quote I think what IWS was trying to say was that the Assaults are the ones that bring the firepower to the enemy. They aren't the ones that sit back and defend, waiting for the enemy to fall into their trap, they are the stormtroopers, the rush the enemy and break their defenses. That is the role of an assault, the opposite of defense. Fizzer94 // Forum Warrior Operation II MAG ~ Seryi Volk Executive Response
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 481	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:32:00 - [3] - Quote At least the other three actually help in a fight. What the hell is reload speed good for in a fight? Running out of ammo when the enemy is still alive is what a sidearm is for...
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1863	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:34:00 - [4] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: I think what IWS was trying to say was that the Assaults are the ones that bring the firepower to the enemy. They aren't the ones that sit back and defend, waiting for the enemy to fall into their trap, they are the stormtroopers, the rush the enemy and break their defenses. That is the role of an assault, the opposite of defense. IWS wrote and I quote "Assaults are not supposed to be the ones being exposed to combat" My interpretation is that the Assaults suits "lure" enemies out of combat, but in front line grunt combat they will not excel. Armor and Shields are not the same!
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1863	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:35:00 - [5] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: At least the other three actually help in a fight. What the hell is reload speed good for in a fight? Running out of ammo when the enemy is still alive is what a sidearm is for... Reload helps more than less dispersion and kick... want to trade bonuses? Anyways this isn't a discussion on the bonuses as a singular. Armor and Shields are not the same!
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 13000	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:37:00 - [6] - Quote Okay if you want to think on how I think weirdly; I view '5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons' as a tank bonus. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2066	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:37:00 - [7] - Quote I think CCPs goal with Assault Suits is similar to the goal of the Logi Suits. Make up for drawbacks in racial equipment/weapons. Equipment gets a nerf. Logi Bonuses allow each Logi to partially make up for the nerf of an equipment type. Racial Rifles get a nerf. Assault Bonuses allow each assault to partially make up for the nerf of their racial rifle. Fizzer94 // Forum Warrior Operation II MAG ~ Seryi Volk Executive Response
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 1564	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:37:00 - [8] - Quote As much as I love the things he writes, it's probably not a good idea to read too much into what IWS writes; he seems a little... illiterate... at times. As well as that, he's not able to clarify in any great degree due to the NDA, so there's another level of obfuscation right there. Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters. Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 13002	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:40:00 - [9] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: I think what IWS was trying to say was that the Assaults are the ones that bring the firepower to the enemy. They aren't the ones that sit back and defend, waiting for the enemy to fall into their trap, they are the stormtroopers, the rush the enemy and break their defenses. That is the role of an assault, the opposite of defense. IWS wrote and I quote "Assaults are not supposed to be the ones being exposed to combat" My interpretation is that the Assaults suits "lure" enemies out of combat, but in front line grunt combat they will not excel. "...they're the ones exposing others to combat." Lure is not an appropriate term id use. it be more like making everyone else uncomfortable in doing what they were doing and interrupting them at every chance. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
jhon hartigan Maphia Clan Corporation 16	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:45:00 - [10] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Okay if you want to think on how I think weirdly; I view '5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons' as a tank bonus. Isn't it? I mean: where are they gonna use those cpu and pg they have Now free? Better equipment? Nah, a codebreacker to Hack faster? Nah... More tank? I do think so!

Floyd20 Azizora L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 5	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:46:00 - [11] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: I think what IWS was trying to say was that the Assaults are the ones that bring the firepower to the enemy. They aren't the ones that sit back and defend, waiting for the enemy to fall into their trap, they are the stormtroopers, the rush the enemy and break their defenses. That is the role of an assault, the opposite of defense. IWS wrote and I quote "Assaults are not supposed to be the ones being exposed to combat" My interpretation is that the Assaults suits "lure" enemies out of combat, but in front line grunt combat they will not excel. "...they're the ones exposing others to combat." could you not argue that is the role of scouts? run around, kill things, avoid getting shot. and on the cpu/pg reduction, it can be useful on lower tier suits, letting them use higher tier guns with little extra cost(besides isk). be nice to have the rest of the suits at current planning to better judge through.
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 345	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:47:00 - [12] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Okay if you want to think on how I think weirdly; I view '5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons' as a tank bonus. I agree, but there's theory and there's practice. In theory, heavies hold the line and assaults flank, hit, run, kill. In practice, heavies are too slow to move, logis stay with them, so your tanks on the next objective are your assaults. The reduction in fitting cost (I personally think it's a waste, check my older posts) does allow assaults to buffer tank just a bit better. Current build tanks = ehp. 1.8 will hopefully make ewar a legitimate tanking strategy, along with speed. We are seeing both those options being tweaked. The reason they are currently not viable (exception ewar) is ttk is so low. Again, ttk is being increased, so until we have patch notes try to refrain from overreacting.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 13002	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:47:00 - [13] - Quote jhon hartigan wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Okay if you want to think on how I think weirdly; I view '5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons' as a tank bonus. Isn't it? I mean: where are they gonna use those cpu and pg they have Now free? Better equipment? Nah, a codebreacker to Hack faster? Nah... More tank? I do think so! Well combined with the large number of slots it equates to a tank bonus, now if you limit the slots severely (liken to that of a commando) it would be more of a utility bonus instead. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 13007	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:49:00 - [14] - Quote Floyd20 Azizora wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: I think what IWS was trying to say was that the Assaults are the ones that bring the firepower to the enemy. They aren't the ones that sit back and defend, waiting for the enemy to fall into their trap, they are the stormtroopers, the rush the enemy and break their defenses. That is the role of an assault, the opposite of defense. IWS wrote and I quote "Assaults are not supposed to be the ones being exposed to combat" My interpretation is that the Assaults suits "lure" enemies out of combat, but in front line grunt combat they will not excel. "...they're the ones exposing others to combat." could you not argue that is the role of scouts? run around, kill things, avoid getting shot. and on the cpu/pg reduction, it can be useful on lower tier suits, letting them use higher tier guns with little extra cost(besides isk). be nice to have the rest of the suits at current planning to better judge through. Scouts have intel and subterfuge on their plate as well though they can play a game fairly well without ever seeing the enemy and cause quite a bit of havoc. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1865	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:49:00 - [15] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: I think what IWS was trying to say was that the Assaults are the ones that bring the firepower to the enemy. They aren't the ones that sit back and defend, waiting for the enemy to fall into their trap, they are the stormtroopers, the rush the enemy and break their defenses. That is the role of an assault, the opposite of defense. IWS wrote and I quote "Assaults are not supposed to be the ones being exposed to combat" My interpretation is that the Assaults suits "lure" enemies out of combat, but in front line grunt combat they will not excel. "...they're the ones exposing others to combat." Lure is not an appropriate term id use. it be more like making everyone else uncomfortable in doing what they were doing and interrupting them at every chance. So basically the Assault would be more like a "griefer" for lack of better words (help me) and denying the enemy of any advancement in terms of progress. This works but this is a role more suited towards a scout suit. Uncloak, do some damage, run away, cloak, repeat. Armor and Shields are not the same!
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 13007	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:51:00 - [16] - Quote Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Okay if you want to think on how I think weirdly; I view '5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons' as a tank bonus. I agree, but there's theory and there's practice. In theory, heavies hold the line and assaults flank, hit, run, kill. In practice, heavies are too slow to move, logis stay with them, so your tanks on the next objective are your assaults. The reduction in fitting cost (I personally think it's a waste, check my older posts) does allow assaults to buffer tank just a bit better. Current build tanks = ehp. 1.8 will hopefully make ewar a legitimate tanking strategy, along with speed. We are seeing both those options being tweaked. The reason they are currently not viable (exception ewar) is ttk is so low. Again, ttk is being increased, so until we have patch notes try to refrain from overreacting. I won't disagree just there are times I see practice because the folks in practice are just plain either lazy, uncreative, or crutching themselves to a narrower mindset. I mean I am surely not the only Gal assault that doesn't brick tank his fit and has opted for a slightly speedier and damage fit instead. I mean its like the reload bonus, people discount it quite a bit but for a person like myself who gets quite annoyed with getting killed during a reload where a readied gun would have dispatched the one who done me in and that my side arm was not particularly best suited for that scenario. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1865	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:52:00 - [17] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: jhon hartigan wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Okay if you want to think on how I think weirdly; I view '5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons' as a tank bonus. Isn't it? I mean: where are they gonna use those cpu and pg they have Now free? Better equipment? Nah, a codebreacker to Hack faster? Nah... More tank? I do think so! Well combined with the large number of slots it equates to a tank bonus, now if you limit the slots severely (liken to that of a commando) it would be more of a utility bonus instead. I don't mind the PG/CPU bonus as it allows for more firepower for example equipping a proto weapon and still having a nice tank. The problem is that in most battles I use a ADV weapon meaning the bonus is wasted. Armor and Shields are not the same!
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 345	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:53:00 - [18] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Okay if you want to think on how I think weirdly; I view '5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons' as a tank bonus. I agree, but there's theory and there's practice. In theory, heavies hold the line and assaults flank, hit, run, kill. In practice, heavies are too slow to move, logis stay with them, so your tanks on the next objective are your assaults. The reduction in fitting cost (I personally think it's a waste, check my older posts) does allow assaults to buffer tank just a bit better. Current build tanks = ehp. 1.8 will hopefully make ewar a legitimate tanking strategy, along with speed. We are seeing both those options being tweaked. The reason they are currently not viable (exception ewar) is ttk is so low. Again, ttk is being increased, so until we have patch notes try to refrain from overreacting. I won't disagree just there are times I see practice because the folks in practice are just plain either lazy, uncreative, or crutching themselves to a narrower mindset. I mean I am surely not the only Gal assault that doesn't brick tank his fit and has opted for a slightly speedier and damage fit instead. Lol Damn blue berries. Another problem entirely!
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6293	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:54:00 - [19] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: I think what IWS was trying to say was that the Assaults are the ones that bring the firepower to the enemy. They aren't the ones that sit back and defend, waiting for the enemy to fall into their trap, they are the stormtroopers, the rush the enemy and break their defenses. That is the role of an assault, the opposite of defense. IWS wrote and I quote "Assaults are not supposed to be the ones being exposed to combat" My interpretation is that the Assaults suits "lure" enemies out of combat, but in front line grunt combat they will not excel. "...they're the ones exposing others to combat." Lure is not an appropriate term id use. it be more like making everyone else uncomfortable in doing what they were doing and interrupting them at every chance. In that case scouts shouldn't be the regenerators. Assaults should have higher shield HP/s or Armor HP/s than them if you want that to be true. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1865	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:55:00 - [20] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: I think CCPs goal with Assault Suits is similar to the goal of the Logi Suits. Make up for drawbacks in racial equipment/weapons. Equipment gets a nerf. Logi Bonuses allow each Logi to partially make up for the nerf of an equipment type. Racial Rifles get a nerf. Assault Bonuses allow each assault to partially make up for the nerf of their racial rifle. I don't think the Mass driver is getting nerfed to have 2 shots lol Armor and Shields are not the same!

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 13007	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:55:00 - [21] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: I think what IWS was trying to say was that the Assaults are the ones that bring the firepower to the enemy. They aren't the ones that sit back and defend, waiting for the enemy to fall into their trap, they are the stormtroopers, the rush the enemy and break their defenses. That is the role of an assault, the opposite of defense. IWS wrote and I quote "Assaults are not supposed to be the ones being exposed to combat" My interpretation is that the Assaults suits "lure" enemies out of combat, but in front line grunt combat they will not excel. "...they're the ones exposing others to combat." Lure is not an appropriate term id use. it be more like making everyone else uncomfortable in doing what they were doing and interrupting them at every chance. So basically the Assault would be more like a "griefer" for lack of better words (help me) and denying the enemy of any advancement in terms of progress. This works but this is a role more suited towards a scout suit. Uncloak, do some damage, run away, cloak, repeat. Harasser comes to mind. Line breakers would be another. There is also a technical term a Persistent Threat Vector. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Floyd20 Azizora L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 5	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:56:00 - [22] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: I think what IWS was trying to say was that the Assaults are the ones that bring the firepower to the enemy. They aren't the ones that sit back and defend, waiting for the enemy to fall into their trap, they are the stormtroopers, the rush the enemy and break their defenses. That is the role of an assault, the opposite of defense. IWS wrote and I quote "Assaults are not supposed to be the ones being exposed to combat" My interpretation is that the Assaults suits "lure" enemies out of combat, but in front line grunt combat they will not excel. "...they're the ones exposing others to combat." Lure is not an appropriate term id use. it be more like making everyone else uncomfortable in doing what they were doing and interrupting them at every chance. So basically the Assault would be more like a "griefer" for lack of better words (help me) and denying the enemy of any advancement in terms of progress. This works but this is a role more suited towards a scout suit. Uncloak, do some damage, run away, cloak, repeat. maybe they are going for more of a heavies hold/advance the line, assaults flank, logis sit behind line, commandos??, scouts hack, hide, and cause issues behind line. would like to see assaults get a slight base hp increase (lights and scouts both got one). the big issue is heavies cant advance a line over open ground, just too slow for the job (combined with hmg range, lack of heavy gun alternatives)
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6293	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:58:00 - [23] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Okay if you want to think on how I think weirdly; I view '5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons' as a tank bonus. I agree, but there's theory and there's practice. In theory, heavies hold the line and assaults flank, hit, run, kill. In practice, heavies are too slow to move, logis stay with them, so your tanks on the next objective are your assaults. The reduction in fitting cost (I personally think it's a waste, check my older posts) does allow assaults to buffer tank just a bit better. Current build tanks = ehp. 1.8 will hopefully make ewar a legitimate tanking strategy, along with speed. We are seeing both those options being tweaked. The reason they are currently not viable (exception ewar) is ttk is so low. Again, ttk is being increased, so until we have patch notes try to refrain from overreacting. I won't disagree just there are times I see practice because the folks in practice are just plain either lazy, uncreative, or crutching themselves to a narrower mindset. I mean I am surely not the only Gal assault that doesn't brick tank his fit and has opted for a slightly speedier and damage fit instead. I mean its like the reload bonus, people discount it quite a bit but for a person like myself who gets quite annoyed with getting killed during a reload where a readied gun would have dispatched the one who done me in and that my side arm was not particularly best suited for that scenario. I did. It completely fails versus a standard brick and damage suit. And such a fit demands quick regen, but you don't get that. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 13007	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:58:00 - [24] - Quote Now arguing for base stats changes I can see being quite more feasible than the bonus changes (outside of strength of said bonus) CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1866	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:00:00 - [25] - Quote Floyd20 Azizora wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: I think what IWS was trying to say was that the Assaults are the ones that bring the firepower to the enemy. They aren't the ones that sit back and defend, waiting for the enemy to fall into their trap, they are the stormtroopers, the rush the enemy and break their defenses. That is the role of an assault, the opposite of defense. IWS wrote and I quote "Assaults are not supposed to be the ones being exposed to combat" My interpretation is that the Assaults suits "lure" enemies out of combat, but in front line grunt combat they will not excel. "...they're the ones exposing others to combat." Lure is not an appropriate term id use. it be more like making everyone else uncomfortable in doing what they were doing and interrupting them at every chance. So basically the Assault would be more like a "griefer" for lack of better words (help me) and denying the enemy of any advancement in terms of progress. This works but this is a role more suited towards a scout suit. Uncloak, do some damage, run away, cloak, repeat. maybe they are going for more of a heavies hold/advance the line, assaults flank, logis sit behind line, commandos??, scouts hack, hide, and cause issues behind line. would like to see assaults get a slight base hp increase (lights and scouts both got one). the big issue is heavies cant advance a line over open ground, just too slow for the job (combined with hmg range, lack of heavy gun alternatives) if a drop ship wasn't insta killed advancing through the lines is a non-issue. But as for the assaults "role" the scouts can do it better. You can't flank of the enemy can see you, visually or electronically. You can't harass (thanks) if once you a are detected you cant run away fast enough (Gallente and Amarr assault) little things like this. This is why we need stats of everything not just slivers of data. Armor and Shields are not the same!
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1866	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:01:00 - [26] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Now arguing for base stats changes I can see being quite more feasible than the bonus changes (outside of strength of said bonus) But we need to see them... Armor and Shields are not the same!
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6295	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:01:00 - [27] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Now arguing for base stats changes I can see being quite more feasible than the bonus changes (outside of strength of said bonus) Make all shields and armor regeneration of assaults be faster than scouts. They can't harass if they're licking their wounds behind cover all the time. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1866	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:05:00 - [28] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Now arguing for base stats changes I can see being quite more feasible than the bonus changes (outside of strength of said bonus) Make all shields and armor regeneration of assaults be faster than scouts. They can't harass if they're licking their wounds behind cover all the time. This would work as long as scouts have the second highest, the Gallente get something leagues higher than 3 hp/s. But it would never happen since scouts would complain of being weak, although they get the best tactical defense not being seen. Armor and Shields are not the same!
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 13007	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:08:00 - [29] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Now arguing for base stats changes I can see being quite more feasible than the bonus changes (outside of strength of said bonus) But we need to see them... Assume for now nothing is changed until a blue tag posts. Ill see about getting a post confirming this or not. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Floyd20 Azizora L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 5	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:11:00 - [30] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Now arguing for base stats changes I can see being quite more feasible than the bonus changes (outside of strength of said bonus) Make all shields and armor regeneration of assaults be faster than scouts. They can't harass if they're licking their wounds behind cover all the time. This would work as long as scouts have the second highest, the Gallente get something leagues higher than 3 hp/s. But it would never happen since scouts would complain of being weak, although they get the best tactical defense not being seen. while this is easy to do(and seems likely) with shields, not much you can do about armor, not without some from of armor rep buff. armor is meant to be more about raw HP over self regen (else we would see much stronger extenders, and remote shield rep abilities).

Floyd20 Azizora L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 5	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:15:00 - [31] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Now arguing for base stats changes I can see being quite more feasible than the bonus changes (outside of strength of said bonus) But we need to see them... Assume for now nothing is changed until a blue tag posts. Ill see about getting a post confirming this or not. i am fairly certain some changes will occur to medium suits, amarr looks to be getting it's missing slot back(assault might lose a small amount of cpu and pg), gallente seems to be getting a small self regen to armor, i would bet a small amount of isk that shield regen will get a buff (at least for shield tankers). i can also imagine with the new bonus that logis will lose a bit of cpu and pg.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6296	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:18:00 - [32] - Quote Floyd20 Azizora wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Now arguing for base stats changes I can see being quite more feasible than the bonus changes (outside of strength of said bonus) Make all shields and armor regeneration of assaults be faster than scouts. They can't harass if they're licking their wounds behind cover all the time. This would work as long as scouts have the second highest, the Gallente get something leagues higher than 3 hp/s. But it would never happen since scouts would complain of being weak, although they get the best tactical defense not being seen. while this is easy to do(and seems likely) with shields, not much you can do about armor, not without some from of armor rep buff. armor is meant to be more about raw HP over self regen (else we would see much stronger extenders, and remote shield rep abilities). Yes you can actually. 7hp/s base on assault suits, bam regenerative armor tanks. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1867	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:19:00 - [33] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Now arguing for base stats changes I can see being quite more feasible than the bonus changes (outside of strength of said bonus) But we need to see them... Assume for now nothing is changed until a blue tag posts. Ill see about getting a post confirming this or not. Devs work on Sundays :o? Armor and Shields are not the same!
Floyd20 Azizora L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 5	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:24:00 - [34] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Floyd20 Azizora wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Now arguing for base stats changes I can see being quite more feasible than the bonus changes (outside of strength of said bonus) Make all shields and armor regeneration of assaults be faster than scouts. They can't harass if they're licking their wounds behind cover all the time. This would work as long as scouts have the second highest, the Gallente get something leagues higher than 3 hp/s. But it would never happen since scouts would complain of being weak, although they get the best tactical defense not being seen. while this is easy to do(and seems likely) with shields, not much you can do about armor, not without some from of armor rep buff. armor is meant to be more about raw HP over self regen (else we would see much stronger extenders, and remote shield rep abilities). Yes you can actually. 7hp/s base on assault suits, bam regenerative armor tanks. It won't be as strong as shields regen, but it will have more HP with slightly less speed, being the middle ground. i imagine many more triage hive carrying, 700hp brick gal assaults if they got that. one of the main reasons people use logis for 'slaying' (guilty) is because it has that 5hp/sec built in, which allows them to fit extra plates to survive more, then carry 3/4 compact hives when they need more.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6299	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:26:00 - [35] - Quote Floyd20 Azizora wrote: i imagine many more triage hive carrying, 700hp brick gal assaults if they got that. one of the main reasons people use logis for 'slaying' (guilty) is because it has that 5hp/sec built in, which allows them to fit extra plates to survive more, then carry 3/4 compact hives when they need more. An assault with triage hives would not have nearly enough CPU/PG to fit a decent tank. My allotek hive assault could reach a maximum of 500 HP. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Floyd20 Azizora L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 5	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:29:00 - [36] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Floyd20 Azizora wrote: i imagine many more triage hive carrying, 700hp brick gal assaults if they got that. one of the main reasons people use logis for 'slaying' (guilty) is because it has that 5hp/sec built in, which allows them to fit extra plates to survive more, then carry 3/4 compact hives when they need more. An assault with triage hives would not have nearly enough CPU/PG to fit a decent tank. My allotek hive assault could reach a maximum of 500 HP. with or without proto guns, complex damage mods/shield extenders? dont forget the current proposed 25% to cpu and pg of all weapons, and is this gallente or amarr assault?
demonkiller 12 G.L.O.R.Y 386	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:30:00 - [37] - Quote roles are not specialised enough they WERE going to be good, but if they just go full ****** im leaving this game and some unlucky person is going to get 2 bil isk
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6302	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:32:00 - [38] - Quote Floyd20 Azizora wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Floyd20 Azizora wrote: i imagine many more triage hive carrying, 700hp brick gal assaults if they got that. one of the main reasons people use logis for 'slaying' (guilty) is because it has that 5hp/sec built in, which allows them to fit extra plates to survive more, then carry 3/4 compact hives when they need more. An assault with triage hives would not have nearly enough CPU/PG to fit a decent tank. My allotek hive assault could reach a maximum of 500 HP. with or without proto guns, complex damage mods/shield extenders? dont forget the current proposed 25% to cpu and pg of all weapons, and is this gallente or amarr assault? Gallente assault. Double damage mods and precision enhancer. GEK38 (Can't fit a duvolle) M1 Locus (Can't fit a Core) I could give up a damage mod for some higher HP, but then my Caldari assault with a duvolle would do more damage at around the same HP with faster speed and regen. It simply doesn't work. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1867	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:37:00 - [39] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Floyd20 Azizora wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Floyd20 Azizora wrote: i imagine many more triage hive carrying, 700hp brick gal assaults if they got that. one of the main reasons people use logis for 'slaying' (guilty) is because it has that 5hp/sec built in, which allows them to fit extra plates to survive more, then carry 3/4 compact hives when they need more. An assault with triage hives would not have nearly enough CPU/PG to fit a decent tank. My allotek hive assault could reach a maximum of 500 HP. with or without proto guns, complex damage mods/shield extenders? dont forget the current proposed 25% to cpu and pg of all weapons, and is this gallente or amarr assault? Gallente assault. Double damage mods and precision enhancer. GEK38 (Can't fit a duvolle) M1 Locus (Can't fit a Core) I could give up a damage mod for some higher HP, but then my Caldari assault with a duvolle would do more damage at around the same HP with faster speed and regen. It simply doesn't work. this is why the Galente shouldn't have the same HP as Caldari do shields, it simply doesn't work. If a Gallente doesn't stack HP his base HP becomes his weakness. This goes for all suits. Armor and Shields are not the same!
Floyd20 Azizora L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 5	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:38:00 - [40] - Quote fair enough. would the amarr assault (with its extra cpu and pg) do any better? base 1801.25=225 plates 1351.10=148.53=445.5 total 225+445.5=670.5 pg use (assuming that is the bottle neck) 143=42 leaves me 28 plus enginnering bonus(17.5)pg to play with. just want to make sure this could not be abused on the same level as logis now (gal logis with 900 armor hp anyone?) before i got behind such a big passive armor rep.

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6305	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:40:00 - [41] - Quote Floyd20 Azizora wrote: fair enough. would the amarr assault (with its extra cpu and pg) do any better? base 1801.25=225 plates 1351.10=148.53=445.5 total 225+445.5=670.5 pg use (assuming that is the bottle neck) 143=42 leaves me 28 plus enginnering bonus(17.5)pg to play with. just want to make sure this could not be abused on the same level as logis now (gal logis with 900 armor hp anyone?) before i got behind such a big passive armor rep. Amarr wouldn't get the same regen. They're closer to a heavy assault, relying on their high HP rather than high regen. They would have something like 4hp/s on armor. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 345	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:43:00 - [42] - Quote Plain and simple, blanket increase to assault speed. 20% or so. Balanced. This is on top of changes proposed. Give logis an hp buff.
Floyd20 Azizora L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 5	Posted - 2014.02.09 14:02:00 - [43] - Quote Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Plain and simple, blanket increase to assault speed. 20% or so. Balanced. This is on top of changes proposed. Give logis an hp buff. if assaults moved any faster, they would match or exceed scouts.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1875	Posted - 2014.02.09 14:10:00 - [44] - Quote What we need is for CCP to state a clear goal for every suit, and every weapon. From there we, the players along with the CPM and CCP can actually give meaningful feedback to the state of the game. I feel like this game is being built with by two people with two different mindsets. Armor and Shields are not the same!
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 345	Posted - 2014.02.09 14:11:00 - [45] - Quote Floyd20 Azizora wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Plain and simple, blanket increase to assault speed. 20% or so. Balanced. This is on top of changes proposed. Give logis an hp buff. if assaults moved any faster, they would match or exceed scouts. I may be mistaken but aren't the scouts getting a speed buff in 1.8?
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 345	Posted - 2014.02.09 14:12:00 - [46] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: What we need is for CCP to state a clear goal for every suit, and every weapon. From there we, the players along with the CPM and CCP can actually give meaningful feedback to the state of the game. I feel like this game is being built with by two people with two different mindsets. Absolutely this. The game is pulled in so many directions.
Floyd20 Azizora L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 6	Posted - 2014.02.09 14:13:00 - [47] - Quote right now Amarr scout goes 5.25, don't Minmatar assault go 5.3?
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 345	Posted - 2014.02.09 14:20:00 - [48] - Quote Floyd20 Azizora wrote: right now Amarr scout goes 5.25, don't Minmatar assault go 5.3? It is listed as 525, I don't know how they convert that to actual run speed. The min assault has not been released yet. But keep in mind, Minn assault gets 2 lows only. Amarr scout gets 4, similar base hp, and more stam with much lower profile and 2 equip.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1882	Posted - 2014.02.10 10:58:00 - [49] - Quote Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Floyd20 Azizora wrote: right now Amarr scout goes 5.25, don't Minmatar assault go 5.3? It is listed as 525, I don't know how they convert that to actual run speed. The min assault has not been released yet. But keep in mind, Minn assault gets 2 lows only. Amarr scout gets 4, similar base hp, and more stam with much lower profile and 2 equip. So free low with stam buff, plus cloak which is equal to complex damp, so there's another free low slot. What's wrong again? speed is not what it seems in Dust. If I put enough armor plates to be a a fast as a heavy he can outrun me and jump higher. Armor and Shields are not the same!
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 271	Posted - 2014.02.10 11:53:00 - [50] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: To clarify a bit of translation : Assaults are not supposed to be ones being the ones exposed to combat, they're the ones exposing others to combat. HP recoverability would be more in theme in this as it less down time taking a breather before pressuring back on the enemy again but this is better saved for type 2s if that ever happened again which unfortunately until their icde happens is not looking good on the forecast. CCP Saberwing wrote: OKAY OKAY! Since you asked so nicely...this is what we're thinking. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: +5% to reload speed of hybrid railgun light/sidearm weapons per level. - Gallente Assault: 5% reduction to hybrid - blaster light/sidearm hip-fire dispersion and kick per level. - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. Logistics [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment] - Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. - Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. - Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. - Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level. Will copy + paste this in to the Feedback thread too. I am very confused as to what the roles of Dust 514 are. If the Assault is not the main combat suit then who is? As being a part of the CPM there are things IWS knows that we do not, but the lack of transparency does not give clarification as to what this statement means when looked outside of the context of just the assault suit. As for the stats of the assault suits some of these changes added to the weapons in the state they are in could make them extremely powerful, like the mass driver. For these we would need some transparency on weapon stats etc, for example what justifies giving the Gallente assault that bonus? Is the AR getting nerfed even more that this bonus is actually needed? Does the shotgun need it? Ion pistol need it? In its current state the Gallente do not need that bonus and in fact would actually nerf the weapons (pre nerfed ion pistol), isn't that something? A bonus that nerfs a weapon. Anyways, we need some clarification as to why you are doing these changes the way you are doing them. What is your goal, what are your plans for the suit roles, weapons, how are you planning on changing the combat pace of the game the direction of battle. Basically what is it that you hope 1.8 accomplishes. it goes like this assualt is suppost to be your DPS, heavies your tanks, scouts, you burst DPS/assasin, logis your paladin/tanky healer/support. basicly heavies should be used as the center points of battles with assaults providing fire support, scouts flanking/disrupting, and logis keeping them supplied and alive. Unfortunately all this goes out the window once the battle is joined, and every one bitches if they can't solo tank and spank.

BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1882	Posted - 2014.02.10 11:56:00 - [51] - Quote Except in 1.8 heavies are getting insane HP and decent dps. Assaults are getting a middle ground in HP between a scout and a heavy but leaning towards a scout. And chances are logistics are getting their slots nerfed to hell to make make them squishier. Armor and Shields are not the same!
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 271	Posted - 2014.02.10 12:04:00 - [52] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Except in 1.8 heavies are getting insane HP and decent dps. Assaults are getting a middle ground in HP between a scout and a heavy but leaning towards a scout. And chances are logistics are getting their slots nerfed to hell to make make them squishier. never said CCP was doing a good job of it, but thats how I understood it, to be fair assualts are more range DPS then straight DPS hence why heavies are suppost to be the center of the battle. also meds are getting ****** this build, becuase scouts and heavies are getting some love this build. don't worry you'll be back next build, meds and rifles never stay weak longer then a build. and then heavies and scout will go back to being irrelivant. frankly the classes will never be balanced until teiracide happens because , heavies don't scale well, and scouts scale too well from std to pro.
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 346	Posted - 2014.02.10 13:07:00 - [53] - Quote CCP honestly needs to decide whether they want to balance this game around team/squadwork or 1v1 engagements. Every build things swing wildly toward one paradigm or the other. They just need to pick a direction and go with it. Neighborhood Bully prof 5 "Gimme yo lunch money"
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1882	Posted - 2014.02.10 13:37:00 - [54] - Quote Drapedup Drippedout wrote: CCP honestly needs to decide whether they want to balance this game around team/squadwork or 1v1 engagements. Every build things swing wildly toward one paradigm or the other. They just need to pick a direction and go with it. It's just the way other players view the suit type/vehicle type. For example the heavy dropsuit. Most players would agree that a heavy should be hard to kill yet at the same time making a heavy so powerful it takes 2+ players to kill would make it OP. That's the same problem with a Tank. Other FPS don't have this much of a problem balancing this because they don't have the 3rd dimension we have, which is ISK. So balancing has to be done "out of the box" for example to fix heavies you make them have a slow turning speed so a frontal attack would require 2+ players,and a rear attack leaves him vulnerable and less challenging to kill enough so 1 player can kill him. But if the heavy is paired with a logi then his weakness is covered. Armor and Shields are not the same!


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