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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1862
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Posted - 2014.02.09 12:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
To clarify a bit of translation : Assaults are not supposed to be ones being the ones exposed to combat, they're the ones exposing others to combat. HP recoverability would be more in theme in this as it less down time taking a breather before pressuring back on the enemy again but this is better saved for type 2s if that ever happened again which unfortunately until their icde happens is not looking good on the forecast.
CCP Saberwing wrote: OKAY OKAY! Since you asked so nicely...this is what we're thinking.
Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: +5% to reload speed of hybrid railgun light/sidearm weapons per level. - Gallente Assault: 5% reduction to hybrid - blaster light/sidearm hip-fire dispersion and kick per level. - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level.
Logistics [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment] - Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. - Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. - Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. - Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level.
Will copy + paste this in to the Feedback thread too.
I am very confused as to what the roles of Dust 514 are. If the Assault is not the main combat suit then who is?
As being a part of the CPM there are things IWS knows that we do not, but the lack of transparency does not give clarification as to what this statement means when looked outside of the context of just the assault suit.
As for the stats of the assault suits some of these changes added to the weapons in the state they are in could make them extremely powerful, like the mass driver. For these we would need some transparency on weapon stats etc, for example what justifies giving the Gallente assault that bonus? Is the AR getting needed even more that this bonus is actually needed? In its current state the AR doesn't need that bonus and in fact would actually nerf the weapon, instead that something? A bonus that nerfs a weapon.
Anyways, we need some clarification as to why you are doing these changes the way you are doing them. What is your goal, what are your plans for the suit roles, weapons, how are you planning on changing the combat pace of the game the direction of battle. Basically what is it that you hope 1.8 accomplishes.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1863
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Posted - 2014.02.09 12:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:I think what IWS was trying to say was that the Assaults are the ones that bring the firepower to the enemy. They aren't the ones that sit back and defend, waiting for the enemy to fall into their trap, they are the stormtroopers, the rush the enemy and break their defenses. That is the role of an assault, the opposite of defense.
IWS wrote and I quote "Assaults are not supposed to be the ones being exposed to combat"
My interpretation is that the Assaults suits "lure" enemies out of combat, but in front line grunt combat they will not excel.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1863
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Posted - 2014.02.09 12:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:At least the other three actually help in a fight. What the hell is reload speed good for in a fight? Running out of ammo when the enemy is still alive is what a sidearm is for...
Reload helps more than less dispersion and kick... want to trade bonuses? Anyways this isn't a discussion on the bonuses as a singular.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1865
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Posted - 2014.02.09 12:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:I think what IWS was trying to say was that the Assaults are the ones that bring the firepower to the enemy. They aren't the ones that sit back and defend, waiting for the enemy to fall into their trap, they are the stormtroopers, the rush the enemy and break their defenses. That is the role of an assault, the opposite of defense. IWS wrote and I quote "Assaults are not supposed to be the ones being exposed to combat" My interpretation is that the Assaults suits "lure" enemies out of combat, but in front line grunt combat they will not excel. "...they're the ones exposing others to combat." Lure is not an appropriate term id use. it be more like making everyone else uncomfortable in doing what they were doing and interrupting them at every chance.
So basically the Assault would be more like a "griefer" for lack of better words (help me) and denying the enemy of any advancement in terms of progress. This works but this is a role more suited towards a scout suit. Uncloak, do some damage, run away, cloak, repeat.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1865
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Posted - 2014.02.09 12:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:jhon hartigan wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Okay if you want to think on how I think weirdly; I view '5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons' as a tank bonus. Isn't it? I mean: where are they gonna use those cpu and pg they have Now free? Better equipment? Nah, a codebreacker to Hack faster? Nah... More tank? I do think so! Well combined with the large number of slots it equates to a tank bonus, now if you limit the slots severely (liken to that of a commando) it would be more of a utility bonus instead.
I don't mind the PG/CPU bonus as it allows for more firepower for example equipping a proto weapon and still having a nice tank. The problem is that in most battles I use a ADV weapon meaning the bonus is wasted.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1865
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Posted - 2014.02.09 12:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:I think CCPs goal with Assault Suits is similar to the goal of the Logi Suits. Make up for drawbacks in racial equipment/weapons.
Equipment gets a nerf. Logi Bonuses allow each Logi to partially make up for the nerf of an equipment type.
Racial Rifles get a nerf. Assault Bonuses allow each assault to partially make up for the nerf of their racial rifle.
I don't think the Mass driver is getting nerfed to have 2 shots lol
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1866
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Posted - 2014.02.09 13:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
Floyd20 Azizora wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:I think what IWS was trying to say was that the Assaults are the ones that bring the firepower to the enemy. They aren't the ones that sit back and defend, waiting for the enemy to fall into their trap, they are the stormtroopers, the rush the enemy and break their defenses. That is the role of an assault, the opposite of defense. IWS wrote and I quote "Assaults are not supposed to be the ones being exposed to combat" My interpretation is that the Assaults suits "lure" enemies out of combat, but in front line grunt combat they will not excel. "...they're the ones exposing others to combat." Lure is not an appropriate term id use. it be more like making everyone else uncomfortable in doing what they were doing and interrupting them at every chance. So basically the Assault would be more like a "griefer" for lack of better words (help me) and denying the enemy of any advancement in terms of progress. This works but this is a role more suited towards a scout suit. Uncloak, do some damage, run away, cloak, repeat. maybe they are going for more of a heavies hold/advance the line, assaults flank, logis sit behind line, commandos??, scouts hack, hide, and cause issues behind line. would like to see assaults get a slight base hp increase (lights and scouts both got one). the big issue is heavies cant advance a line over open ground, just too slow for the job (combined with hmg range, lack of heavy gun alternatives)
if a drop ship wasn't insta killed advancing through the lines is a non-issue. But as for the assaults "role" the scouts can do it better. You can't flank of the enemy can see you, visually or electronically. You can't harass (thanks) if once you a are detected you cant run away fast enough (Gallente and Amarr assault) little things like this. This is why we need stats of everything not just slivers of data.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1866
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Posted - 2014.02.09 13:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Now arguing for base stats changes I can see being quite more feasible than the bonus changes (outside of strength of said bonus)
But we need to see them...
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1866
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Posted - 2014.02.09 13:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Now arguing for base stats changes I can see being quite more feasible than the bonus changes (outside of strength of said bonus) Make all shields and armor regeneration of assaults be faster than scouts. They can't harass if they're licking their wounds behind cover all the time.
This would work as long as scouts have the second highest, the Gallente get something leagues higher than 3 hp/s. But it would never happen since scouts would complain of being weak, although they get the best tactical defense not being seen.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1867
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Posted - 2014.02.09 13:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Now arguing for base stats changes I can see being quite more feasible than the bonus changes (outside of strength of said bonus) But we need to see them... Assume for now nothing is changed until a blue tag posts. Ill see about getting a post confirming this or not.
Devs work on Sundays :o?
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1867
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Posted - 2014.02.09 13:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Floyd20 Azizora wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Floyd20 Azizora wrote: i imagine many more triage hive carrying, 700hp brick gal assaults if they got that. one of the main reasons people use logis for 'slaying' (guilty) is because it has that 5hp/sec built in, which allows them to fit extra plates to survive more, then carry 3/4 compact hives when they need more.
An assault with triage hives would not have nearly enough CPU/PG to fit a decent tank. My allotek hive assault could reach a maximum of 500 HP. with or without proto guns, complex damage mods/shield extenders? dont forget the current proposed 25% to cpu and pg of all weapons, and is this gallente or amarr assault? Gallente assault. Double damage mods and precision enhancer. GEK38 (Can't fit a duvolle) M1 Locus (Can't fit a Core) I could give up a damage mod for some higher HP, but then my Caldari assault with a duvolle would do more damage at around the same HP with faster speed and regen. It simply doesn't work.
this is why the Galente shouldn't have the same HP as Caldari do shields, it simply doesn't work. If a Gallente doesn't stack HP his base HP becomes his weakness. This goes for all suits.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1875
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Posted - 2014.02.09 14:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
What we need is for CCP to state a clear goal for every suit, and every weapon. From there we, the players along with the CPM and CCP can actually give meaningful feedback to the state of the game. I feel like this game is being built with by two people with two different mindsets.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1882
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Posted - 2014.02.10 10:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Drapedup Drippedout wrote:Floyd20 Azizora wrote:right now Amarr scout goes 5.25, don't Minmatar assault go 5.3? It is listed as 525, I don't know how they convert that to actual run speed. The min assault has not been released yet. But keep in mind, Minn assault gets 2 lows only. Amarr scout gets 4, similar base hp, and more stam with much lower profile and 2 equip. So free low with stam buff, plus cloak which is equal to complex damp, so there's another free low slot. What's wrong again?
speed is not what it seems in Dust. If I put enough armor plates to be a a fast as a heavy he can outrun me and jump higher.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1882
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Posted - 2014.02.10 11:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Except in 1.8 heavies are getting insane HP and decent dps. Assaults are getting a middle ground in HP between a scout and a heavy but leaning towards a scout. And chances are logistics are getting their slots nerfed to hell to make make them squishier.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1882
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 13:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
Drapedup Drippedout wrote:CCP honestly needs to decide whether they want to balance this game around team/squadwork or 1v1 engagements. Every build things swing wildly toward one paradigm or the other. They just need to pick a direction and go with it.
It's just the way other players view the suit type/vehicle type. For example the heavy dropsuit. Most players would agree that a heavy should be hard to kill yet at the same time making a heavy so powerful it takes 2+ players to kill would make it OP. That's the same problem with a Tank. Other FPS don't have this much of a problem balancing this because they don't have the 3rd dimension we have, which is ISK. So balancing has to be done "out of the box" for example to fix heavies you make them have a slow turning speed so a frontal attack would require 2+ players,and a rear attack leaves him vulnerable and less challenging to kill enough so 1 player can kill him. But if the heavy is paired with a logi then his weakness is covered.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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