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RR sacrifices no DPS compared to AR, gains huge range

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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8382	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:22:00 - [31] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: darkiller240 wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: darkiller240 wrote: really RR isent OP only the combat is a bit, the only reason your getting killed so quikely is becuase your amour tanking and your at their optimal range, RR at point blank range does half the damage AR noob So RR gets a massive optimal that's about the size of the AR's effective range, but it doesn't sacrifice any DPS compared to the AR to get that huge range advantage; gaining huge advantages without gaining disadvantages as well is the definition of imbalance, advantages and disadvantages have to be balanced with each other. Even if the AR fights an RR in the AR's own optimal range, the DPS between both rifles will just be about the same, and the AR doesn't have any decisive advantages even in its own optimal. I'm not an "AR noob", I use SCR. RR noob ......................................__................................................ .............................,-~`-»lllllll`~,...................................... .......................,-~`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll-»`-,........................... ..................,-~llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll-,..................... ...............,-llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.\.................. .............;`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll,-~~-,llllllllllllllllllll\................. ..............\lllllllllllllllllllllllllll/.........\;;;;llllllllllll,-`~-,............... ...............\lllllllllllllllllllll,-...........`~-~-,...(.(-»`,`,................. ................\llllllllllll,-~.....................)_-\..`;..).................... .................\,-`-»,`)............,-~`~................/..................... ..................\|/.../.../~,......-~,-~`;................/.\.................. ................./.../.../.../..,-,..~,.`~...................\................. ................\|.../.../.../.`...\...........................)....)-»`~,.................. ................\|./.../..../.......)......,.)`~-,............/....\|..)...`~-,............. ..............././.../...,`-,.....`-,...`....,---......\..../...../..\|.........-»```~-,,,, ...............(..........)`~-,....``.,-~.,-......\|.../..../.../............\........ ................-,.......`-,...`~,..``.,,,-..........\|.,...,...\|..............\........ ...................,.........`-,...)-,..............,-`...,-....(`-,............\....... ......................f`-,.........`-,/...-,___,,-~....,-......\|...`-,..........\........ Mayby becuase you havent relised as you never used the 'OP' RR but having an increased optimal reange means at close range it Does Less Damage try briging a RR at close range agaist a AR, your sure to lose OMG, I'm getting annoyed at this misinformation. The optimal starts from 0 meters and goes up to 75. At close range it is still in its optima range, and will do FULL DAMAGE. The laser rifle is the only weapon in which the optimal does not start at 0, thus does less damage at close range. The RR and every other weapon does not work like that. Last time i checked this was true to all guns I seriously suggest you get on Dust now, get in close range to a friendly with a sniper rifle, rail rifle, or anything besides the laser rifle, aim at him, and read the efficiency percentage. The percentage decreases when you're not in optimal range (also factor in the damage profile to shields and armor, like sniper rifle is -10% shields). Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt* Gû¦Gû+
Onesimus Tarsus 952	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:25:00 - [32] - Quote They aren't going to modify the AR or the CR... They're gonna buff the puke out of the Flaylock. One-shot kill from any distance every time. Roll those SP in there now. Free, on-demand Respecs. Because it doesn't matter and no one should care. Matchmaking by KDR proximity. :)
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 293	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:26:00 - [33] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Yes, really. Your title says the "RR sacrifices no DPS compared to AR". When, in fact, it does when facing shields. Armor is currently tanking flavor of the month, so, about that argument... How does that change the numbers? Do you think armor will always be FoTM?
darkiller240 WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy 296	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:26:00 - [34] - Quote ......................................__................................................ .............................,-~`-»lllllll`~,...................................... .......................,-~`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll-»`-,........................... ..................,-~llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll-,..................... ...............,-llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.\.................. .............;`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll,-~~-,llllllllllllllllllll\................. ..............\lllllllllllllllllllllllllll/.........\;;;;llllllllllll,-`~-,............... ...............\lllllllllllllllllllll,-...........`~-~-,...(.(-»`,`,................. ................\llllllllllll,-~.....................)_-\..`;..).................... .................\,-`-»,`)............,-~`~................/..................... ..................\|/.../.../~,......-~,-~`;................/.\.................. ................./.../.../.../..,-,..~,.`~...................\................. ................\|.../.../.../.`...\...........................)....)-»`~,.................. ................\|./.../..../.......)......,.)`~-,............/....\|..)...`~-,............. ..............././.../...,`-,.....`-,...`....,---......\..../...../..\|.........-»```~-,,,, ...............(..........)`~-,....``.,-~.,-......\|.../..../.../............\........ ................-,.......`-,...`~,..``.,,,-..........\|.,...,...\|..............\........ ...................,.........`-,...)-,..............,-`...,-....(`-,............\....... ......................f`-,.........`-,/...-,___,,-~....,-......\|...`-,..........\........ Mayby becuase you havent relised as you never used the 'OP' RR but having an increased optimal reange means at close range it Does Less Damage try briging a RR at close range agaist a AR, your sure to lose[/quote] OMG, I'm getting annoyed at this misinformation. The optimal starts from 0 meters and goes up to 75. At close range it is still in its optima range, and will do FULL DAMAGE. The laser rifle is the only weapon in which the optimal does not start at 0, thus does less damage at close range. The RR and every other weapon does not work like that. [/quote] Last time i checked this was true to all guns[/quote] I seriously suggest you get on Dust now, get in close range to a friendly with a sniper rifle, rail rifle, or anything besides the laser rifle, and read the efficiency percentage. The percentage decreases when you're not in optimal range (also factor in the damage profile to shields and armor, like sniper rifle is -10% shields).[/quote] even if the close range thing isent true have you taken the fact of the spool timer?, 0.5 seconds is important in an FPS "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results*." - Albert Einstein
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2075	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:28:00 - [35] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Disturbingly Bored wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Yes, really. Your title says the "RR sacrifices no DPS compared to AR". When, in fact, it does when facing shields. Armor is currently tanking flavor of the month, so, about that argument... How does that change the numbers? Do you think armor will always be FoTM? It's the DPS issue not Damage profiles... TTK is so short damage profiles don't matter. A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
darkiller240 WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy 296	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:33:00 - [36] - Quote hey crazy idea use a poll "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8385	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:34:00 - [37] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: . even if the close range thing isent true have you taken the fact of the spool timer?, 0.5 seconds is important in an FPS great the quots glitched Right now the spool up is only 0.25, not long enough to disadvantage it in close range, and a weapon with so much range AND damage per second needs to have a disadvantage at close range. I tested the RR at only standard tier, only got level 1 operation skill, and it was amazing even at close range. I even managed to kill an HMG heavy in close range in a tight corridor while using a BPO standard assault suit with it; that probably just means the heavy was bad, and I was strafing a lot, but I should have a serious disadvantage in close range while using it. Mostly I just shared the story about the heavy because its a really fond memory Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
darkiller240 WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy 296	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:35:00 - [38] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: darkiller240 wrote: ......................................__................................................ .............................,-~`-»lllllll`~,...................................... .......................,-~`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll-»`-,........................... ..................,-~llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll-,..................... ...............,-llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.\.................. .............;`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll,-~~-,llllllllllllllllllll\................. ..............\lllllllllllllllllllllllllll/.........\;;;;llllllllllll,-`~-,............... ...............\lllllllllllllllllllll,-...........`~-~-,...(.(-»`,`,................. ................\llllllllllll,-~.....................)_-\..`;..).................... .................\,-`-»,`)............,-~`~................/..................... ..................\|/.../.../~,......-~,-~`;................/.\.................. ................./.../.../.../..,-,..~,.`~...................\................. ................\|.../.../.../.`...\...........................)....)-»`~,.................. ................\|./.../..../.......)......,.)`~-,............/....\|..)...`~-,............. ..............././.../...,`-,.....`-,...`....,---......\..../...../..\|.........-»```~-,,,, ...............(..........)`~-,....``.,-~.,-......\|.../..../.../............\........ ................-,.......`-,...`~,..``.,,,-..........\|.,...,...\|..............\........ ...................,.........`-,...)-,..............,-`...,-....(`-,............\....... ......................f`-,.........`-,/...-,___,,-~....,-......\|...`-,..........\........ Mayby becuase you havent relised as you never used the 'OP' RR but having an increased optimal reange means at close range it Does Less Damage try briging a RR at close range agaist a AR, your sure to lose OMG, I'm getting annoyed at this misinformation. The optimal starts from 0 meters and goes up to 75. At close range it is still in its optima range, and will do FULL DAMAGE. The laser rifle is the only weapon in which the optimal does not start at 0, thus does less damage at close range. The RR and every other weapon does not work like that. Last time i checked this was true to all guns[/quote] I seriously suggest you get on Dust now, get in close range to a friendly with a sniper rifle, rail rifle, or anything besides the laser rifle, and read the efficiency percentage. The percentage decreases when you're not in optimal range (also factor in the damage profile to shields and armor, like sniper rifle is -10% shields).[/quote] even if the close range thing isent true have you taken the fact of the spool timer?, 0.5 seconds is important in an FPS great the quots glitched[/quote] Right now the spool up is only 0.25, not long enough to disadvantage it in close range, and a weapon with so much range AND damage per second needs to have a disadvantage at close range. I tested the RR at only standard tier, only got level 1 operation skill, and it was amazing even at close range. I even managed to kill an HMG heavy in close range in a tight corridor while using a BPO standard assault suit with it; that probably just means the heavy was bad, and I was strafing a lot, but I should have a serious disadvantage in close range while using it. Mostly I just shared the story about the heavy because its a really fond memory [/quote] i thought the spool was 0.5 sec? "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results*." - Albert Einstein
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 396	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:36:00 - [39] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: The RR has to spool up as a close range disadvantage, but the problem is the spool up time is so negligible Considering you did the math I guess you realize that the AR does 116 damage in the time it takes the RR to spool up? Is that not a serious advantage for the RR user? I would strongly advice against doubling the spool up time. I barely use the RR, but I feel that it would be completely gone if spool-up was increased by more than maybe 0.1 of a second. Well, it's supposed to be a meaningful drawback in CQC, and the spool up is negligible in general at long ranges since you can generally dictate when that engagement begins Outside of the AR's optimal range I'd expect the RR to have a serious advantage, but inside of it there's nothing stopping the AR user from initiating the fight at the same time as the AR user does, or is there? In that case, as Kagehoshi's numbers show, the AR wins by 116 hp, everything else being equal. Is there anything that gives the RR an advantage inside of the AR's optimal range to counter its 116 hp drawback? By the way, I choose weapons based on the map I'm seeing. On Manus Peak I will use the RR or SCR, if there's an outpost I will often choose the AR and stay inside (especially since I've found enjoyment in playing a sensor-scout). When I plan on leaving the outpost I switch weapons to something with more range. Of course I'm mostly playing casually, so my experience at the upper end of the leaderboard is limited.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8386	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:39:00 - [40] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Right now the spool up is only 0.25, not long enough to disadvantage it in close range, and a weapon with so much range AND damage per second needs to have a disadvantage at close range. I tested the RR at only standard tier, only got level 1 operation skill, and it was amazing even at close range. I even managed to kill an HMG heavy in close range in a tight corridor while using a BPO standard assault suit with it; that probably just means the heavy was bad, and I was strafing a lot, but I should have a serious disadvantage in close range while using it. Mostly I just shared the story about the heavy because its a really fond memory i thought the spool was 0.5 sec? Well its 0.25, feel free to check Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1729	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:40:00 - [41] - Quote I think the point OP is trying to make is that the optimal range of the Rail Rifle isn't working quite as intended. Assuming DPS is similar, all weapons should have a maximum and minimum range. Maximum range is dictacted by Falloff Damage and Accuracy, these are easy enough to set. Minimum range is important however because if DPS is similar between weapons, the long range weapon needs to be weak in short range, as not to make the short range weapons obsolete. However minimum range is a bit more difficult to control, so far CCP has limited the short range of weapons with a couple factors: Fire Rate: Low fire rate weapons are more difficult to use at close range because landing each shot becomes more difficult, and because each shot holds a higher % of your DPS, accuracy is crucial. This is why using Sniper Rifles at close range is difficult. Charge time: Charge time delays the time before the first shot fires which means the enemy at close range can deal additional DPS before you can retaliate. At range however, you are hopefully outside the enemy's optimal range, and as such charge is less important. Now there are a number of addition things that can help/hinder weapons in terms of range. Dispersion: Dispersion paired with a high fire rate is actually a benefit for close range weapons, and is the reason the recent HMG fix made the weapon so much more useful. Because fire rate and dispersion are high, it provides a solid area of DPS which is not useful at long range, but allows for easier kills at short range. Long Range weapons need to have low dispersion so they're accurate at range. However,low dispersion when ADS but high dispersion when hipfired for long range weapons allows them to be accurate when scoped in, but compounds the low fire rate issue if attempted to be fired from the hip. Recoil: Recoil is Dust is painfully low and players don't have to work very hard to control recoil. That aside, works in a similar way to dispersion in that it makes it difficult to consistently land shots on the same point. Generally speaking recoil should be reduced when ADS, effectively pushing the effective range out slightly. Recoil can be used however to discourage hipfire, particularly for medium range weapons. ADS Tracking: Tracking speed is particularly instrumental in long vs short range combat. At long ranges, traversal velocity of targets is fairly slow making tracking speed non-issue, as they move across the scree fairly slowly. However, at close range when traversal velocity is very high, ADS track is extremely important. Decreasing the ADS tracking speed pushed minimum range out as it becomes increasingly difficult to track close range targets. Note that hipfire tracking should never be reduced between weapons of similar frame, as it hinders general movement. ___________ In then end, the 4 rifles should have an effective range which looks like a series of rings around the user, representing a minimum and maximum range. The Plasma Rifle should little to no minimum range and a short maximum range, with Combat Rifle, Scrambler Rifle, and Rail Rifle forming additional rings further and further from the user with some overlap between each of them. 1.8 Sentinels Damage Efficiency Effective HP
darkiller240 WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy 296	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:42:00 - [42] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: darkiller240 wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Right now the spool up is only 0.25, not long enough to disadvantage it in close range, and a weapon with so much range AND damage per second needs to have a disadvantage at close range. I tested the RR at only standard tier, only got level 1 operation skill, and it was amazing even at close range. I even managed to kill an HMG heavy in close range in a tight corridor while using a BPO standard assault suit with it; that probably just means the heavy was bad, and I was strafing a lot, but I should have a serious disadvantage in close range while using it. Mostly I just shared the story about the heavy because its a really fond memory i thought the spool was 0.5 sec? Well its 0.25, feel free to check well my game is off as its late in my country but umm still thats 116Hp AR can put more into an enemy then a RR Also RR is less accurate, remember it has recoil "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1003	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:49:00 - [43] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: really RR isent OP only the combat is a bit, the only reason your getting killed so quikely is becuase your amour tanking and your at their optimal range, RR at point blank range does half the damage AR noob KAGEHOSHI has been here since the beginning of Dust and posts so often that if you search his name on the forums you max out the post list. BTW, the post list max is 50 pages. And on KAGEHOSHI's list, he posts so much that those 50 pages only go back to November 14, 2013. Now.... let's see how much YOU know about Dust... Oh my... this is DELICIOUS! First ever forum post: 2013.06.02 3,124 kills 0.61 K/D 0.99 W/L 433,517 WP KAGEHOSHI has forgotten more Dust stats than you've ever known. Watch who you call a noob, scrub. You're in WAY over your head. To apply to L.O.T.I.S. or to squad with us, join our public chat channel: L.O.T.I.S.
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2076	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:50:00 - [44] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: darkiller240 wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Right now the spool up is only 0.25, not long enough to disadvantage it in close range, and a weapon with so much range AND damage per second needs to have a disadvantage at close range. I tested the RR at only standard tier, only got level 1 operation skill, and it was amazing even at close range. I even managed to kill an HMG heavy in close range in a tight corridor while using a BPO standard assault suit with it; that probably just means the heavy was bad, and I was strafing a lot, but I should have a serious disadvantage in close range while using it. Mostly I just shared the story about the heavy because its a really fond memory i thought the spool was 0.5 sec? Well its 0.25, feel free to check well my game is off as its late in my country but umm still thats 116Hp AR can put more into an enemy then a RR Also RR is less accurate, remember it has recoil loldust recoil, play some BF4 and tell me that the RR has bad recoil A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8386	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:54:00 - [45] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: darkiller240 wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Right now the spool up is only 0.25, not long enough to disadvantage it in close range, and a weapon with so much range AND damage per second needs to have a disadvantage at close range. I tested the RR at only standard tier, only got level 1 operation skill, and it was amazing even at close range. I even managed to kill an HMG heavy in close range in a tight corridor while using a BPO standard assault suit with it; that probably just means the heavy was bad, and I was strafing a lot, but I should have a serious disadvantage in close range while using it. Mostly I just shared the story about the heavy because its a really fond memory i thought the spool was 0.5 sec? Well its 0.25, feel free to check well my game is off as its late in my country but umm still thats 116Hp AR can put more into an enemy then a RR Also RR is less accurate, remember it has recoil When you're just a few meters from someone in close range, recoil doesn't really matter. Good point with the 116 damage, but can easily be countered by tapping R1 to stay spooled if you know where the enemy is. This is often the case because of passive scans, and the prevalence of active scanners. The spool up time is only a serious downside if you don't know the enemy is coming, or nearby, and even then I don't think its enough. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
darkiller240 WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy 297	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:55:00 - [46] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: darkiller240 wrote: really RR isent OP only the combat is a bit, the only reason your getting killed so quikely is becuase your amour tanking and your at their optimal range, RR at point blank range does half the damage AR noob KAGEHOSHI has been here since the beginning of Dust and posts so often that if you search his name on the forums you max out the post list. BTW, the post list max is 50 pages. And on KAGEHOSHI's list, he posts so much that those 50 pages only go back to November 14, 20013. Now.... let's see how much YOU know about Dust... Oh my... this is DELICIOUS! First ever forum post: 2013.06.02 3,124 kills 0.61 K/D 0.99 W/L 433,517 WP KAGEHOSHI has forgotten more Dust stats than you've ever known. Watch who you call a noob, scrub. You're in WAY over your head. and??? sooo i dont play this game competently, i started this character as a militia noobie nealry a year ago, that why my bad KD, also when has a DS pilot ever got good stats?? "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
darkiller240 WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy 297	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:56:00 - [47] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: darkiller240 wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: darkiller240 wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Right now the spool up is only 0.25, not long enough to disadvantage it in close range, and a weapon with so much range AND damage per second needs to have a disadvantage at close range. I tested the RR at only standard tier, only got level 1 operation skill, and it was amazing even at close range. I even managed to kill an HMG heavy in close range in a tight corridor while using a BPO standard assault suit with it; that probably just means the heavy was bad, and I was strafing a lot, but I should have a serious disadvantage in close range while using it. Mostly I just shared the story about the heavy because its a really fond memory i thought the spool was 0.5 sec? Well its 0.25, feel free to check well my game is off as its late in my country but umm still thats 116Hp AR can put more into an enemy then a RR Also RR is less accurate, remember it has recoil loldust recoil, play some BF4 and tell me that the RR has bad recoil yes the recoil is really low Also iv played BF4, EA ruiend it, its full of bugs. Still great game :D "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
darkiller240 WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy 297	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:57:00 - [48] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: darkiller240 wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: darkiller240 wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Right now the spool up is only 0.25, not long enough to disadvantage it in close range, and a weapon with so much range AND damage per second needs to have a disadvantage at close range. I tested the RR at only standard tier, only got level 1 operation skill, and it was amazing even at close range. I even managed to kill an HMG heavy in close range in a tight corridor while using a BPO standard assault suit with it; that probably just means the heavy was bad, and I was strafing a lot, but I should have a serious disadvantage in close range while using it. Mostly I just shared the story about the heavy because its a really fond memory i thought the spool was 0.5 sec? Well its 0.25, feel free to check well my game is off as its late in my country but umm still thats 116Hp AR can put more into an enemy then a RR Also RR is less accurate, remember it has recoil When you're just a few meters from someone in close range, recoil doesn't really matter. Good point with the 116 damage, but can easily be countered by tapping R1 to stay spooled if you know where the enemy is. This is often the case because of passive scans, and the prevalence of active scanners. The spool up time is only a serious downside if you don't know the enemy is coming, or nearby, and even then I don't think its enough. i agree the tapping the spool thing should be fixed, like i said i though the spool was half a second long. "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
Bojo The Mighty L.O.T.I.S. 2885	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:59:00 - [49] - Quote Read this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1749301#post1749301 Check out latest BSOTT Guide
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2077	Posted - 2014.01.24 23:02:00 - [50] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: Killar-12 wrote: darkiller240 wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: darkiller240 wrote: i thought the spool was 0.5 sec? Well its 0.25, feel free to check well my game is off as its late in my country but umm still thats 116Hp AR can put more into an enemy then a RR Also RR is less accurate, remember it has recoil loldust recoil, play some BF4 and tell me that the RR has bad recoil yes the recoil is really low Also iv played BF4, EA ruiend it, its full of bugs. Still great game :D Agreed BF4 is not as good as BF3 but it's fun certainly a change from DUST. A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1730	Posted - 2014.01.24 23:05:00 - [51] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Read this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1749301#post1749301 That is the other option. If DPS is different between each rifle, then the range issue is easier to handle. If DPS remains constant or similar, you need to resort to the mechanics I outlined above. 1.8 Sentinels Damage Efficiency Effective HP
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 399	Posted - 2014.01.24 23:09:00 - [52] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Good point with the 116 damage, but can easily be countered by tapping R1 to stay spooled if you know where the enemy is. I never knew this was possible. This very obviously needs to be fixed. How come I never discover the "pro-tactics" by myself? Regarding scanning: Considering that right now only like 5% of all players can avoid advanced scanners you're right in assuming that any competent player can see his enemies before they come into view. Seeing the suggested stats of active scanners in 1.8 I assume however that scanning will be much less prevalent in 1.8 than it is right now. By the way: A spool-up time of 0.35 would put an RR user 163 hp behind an equally skilled AR user inside of the AR's optimum range. It would however also further put the RR behind an equally skilled SCR or CR user at even longer ranges. Perhaps the AR rather needs a 5% buff in DPS relative to the other rifles (keep in mind that TTK is going to be looked at in the future).
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 692	Posted - 2014.01.24 23:09:00 - [53] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: The RR has to spool up as a close range disadvantage, but the problem is the spool up time is so negligible Considering you did the math I guess you realize that the AR does 116 damage in the time it takes the RR to spool up? Is that not a serious advantage for the RR user? I would strongly advice against doubling the spool up time. I barely use the RR, but I feel that it would be completely gone if spool-up was increased by more than maybe 0.1 of a second. Well, it's supposed to be a meaningful drawback in CQC, and the spool up is negligible in general at long ranges since you can generally dictate when that engagement begins I think the spool up is a probably the toughest thing to balance around. It has to be spot on to make it at least functional in CQC or worthless. If the RR has to have a tweak then hip fire accuracy would be the way to go i think. My most significant caution on this is how do you "balance" weapons in relation to player skill? The .25sec spool time might be barely noticeable to a skilled player but working exactly as intended for an average player. "Third star to the right...straight ahead 'till morning."
Bojo The Mighty L.O.T.I.S. 2885	Posted - 2014.01.24 23:10:00 - [54] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: Read this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1749301#post1749301 That is the other option. If DPS is different between each rifle, then the range issue is easier to handle. If DPS remains constant or similar, you need to resort to the mechanics I outlined above. It only seems logical and much easier for developers to balance, rather than making everything pretty close in DPS and adding extremities and weird nerfs that don't really nerf in weapon handling (charge time of rail rifle cough cough). They really need to go back to basics right now, it's a clusterfuck. Check out latest BSOTT Guide
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1008	Posted - 2014.01.24 23:10:00 - [55] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: darkiller240 wrote: really RR isent OP only the combat is a bit, the only reason your getting killed so quikely is becuase your amour tanking and your at their optimal range, RR at point blank range does half the damage AR noob KAGEHOSHI has been here since the beginning of Dust and posts so often that if you search his name on the forums you max out the post list. BTW, the post list max is 50 pages. And on KAGEHOSHI's list, he posts so much that those 50 pages only go back to November 14, 20013. Now.... let's see how much YOU know about Dust... Oh my... this is DELICIOUS! First ever forum post: 2013.06.02 3,124 kills 0.61 K/D 0.99 W/L 433,517 WP KAGEHOSHI has forgotten more Dust stats than you've ever known. Watch who you call a noob, scrub. You're in WAY over your head. and??? You come in here with your pitiful smidgen of Dust knowledge and impugn one of Dust's legends of being an AR noob. In doing so, you just showed how invalid any point you try to make may be as you know next to nothing about this game. darkiller240 wrote: also when has a DS pilot ever got good stats?? Pilots from my contacts list: Foxhound Elite: 28,646 kills 3.22 K/D 2.58 W/L steelRatt: 19,618 kills 1.82 K/D 2.23 W/L Mike Molle: 18,375 kills 2.83 K/D 2.38 W/L /conversation To apply to L.O.T.I.S. or to squad with us, join our public chat channel: L.O.T.I.S.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 8338	Posted - 2014.01.24 23:15:00 - [56] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: darkiller240 wrote: really RR isent OP only the combat is a bit, the only reason your getting killed so quikely is becuase your amour tanking and your at their optimal range, RR at point blank range does half the damage AR noob So RR gets a massive optimal that's about the size of the AR's effective range, but it doesn't sacrifice any DPS compared to the AR to get that huge range advantage; gaining huge advantages without gaining disadvantages as well is the definition of imbalance, advantages and disadvantages have to be balanced with each other. Even if the AR fights an RR in the AR's own optimal range, the DPS between both rifles will just be about the same, and the AR doesn't have any decisive advantages even in its own optimal. I'm not an "AR noob", I use SCR. RR noob ......................................__................................................ .............................,-~`-»lllllll`~,...................................... .......................,-~`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll-»`-,........................... ..................,-~llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll-,..................... ...............,-llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.\.................. .............;`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll,-~~-,llllllllllllllllllll\................. ..............\lllllllllllllllllllllllllll/.........\;;;;llllllllllll,-`~-,............... ...............\lllllllllllllllllllll,-...........`~-~-,...(.(-»`,`,................. ................\llllllllllll,-~.....................)_-\..`;..).................... .................\,-`-»,`)............,-~`~................/..................... ..................\|/.../.../~,......-~,-~`;................/.\.................. ................./.../.../.../..,-,..~,.`~...................\................. ................\|.../.../.../.`...\...........................)....)-»`~,.................. ................\|./.../..../.......)......,.)`~-,............/....\|..)...`~-,............. ..............././.../...,`-,.....`-,...`....,---......\..../...../..\|.........-»```~-,,,, ...............(..........)`~-,....``.,-~.,-......\|.../..../.../............\........ ................-,.......`-,...`~,..``.,,,-..........\|.,...,...\|..............\........ ...................,.........`-,...)-,..............,-`...,-....(`-,............\....... ......................f`-,.........`-,/...-,___,,-~....,-*......\|...`-,..........\........ Mayby becuase you havent relised as you never used the 'OP' RR but having an increased optimal reange means at close range it Does Less Damage try briging a RR at close range agaist a AR, your sure to lose You're wrong. Horribly wrong. The only weapon that loses damage as you go closer in is the laser rifle. No other weapon behaves like it. Within your optimal range you will deal normal damage regardless of where in your optimal you are. The laser rifle is the only exception to this rule with its focusing behaviour. Perhaps instead of posting facepalms and generally bashing your head against your keyboard you should take a moment to ensure that you're actually correct? Level 5 Proficiency 3 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
lDocHollidayl Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 491	Posted - 2014.01.24 23:16:00 - [57] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: darkiller240 wrote: really RR isent OP only the combat is a bit, the only reason your getting killed so quikely is becuase your amour tanking and your at their optimal range, RR at point blank range does half the damage AR noob So RR gets a massive optimal that's about the size of the AR's effective range, but it doesn't sacrifice any DPS compared to the AR to get that huge range advantage; gaining huge advantages without gaining disadvantages as well is the definition of imbalance, advantages and disadvantages have to be balanced with each other. Even if the AR fights an RR in the AR's own optimal range, the DPS between both rifles will just be about the same, and the AR doesn't have any decisive advantages even in its own optimal. I'm not an "AR noob", I use SCR. RR noob ......................................__................................................ .............................,-~`-»lllllll`~,...................................... .......................,-~`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll-»`-,........................... ..................,-~llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll-,..................... ...............,-llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.\.................. .............;`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll,-~~-,llllllllllllllllllll\................. ..............\lllllllllllllllllllllllllll/.........\;;;;llllllllllll,-`~-,............... ...............\lllllllllllllllllllll,-...........`~-~-,...(.(-»`,`,................. ................\llllllllllll,-~.....................)_-\..`;..).................... .................\,-`-»,`)............,-~`~................/..................... ..................\|/.../.../~,......-~,-~`;................/.\.................. ................./.../.../.../..,-,..~,.`~...................\................. ................\|.../.../.../.`...\...........................)....)-»`~,.................. ................\|./.../..../.......)......,.)`~-,............/....\|..)...`~-,............. ..............././.../...,`-,.....`-,...`....,---......\..../...../..\|.........-»```~-,,,, ...............(..........)`~-,....``.,-~.,-......\|.../..../.../............\........ ................-,.......`-,...`~,..``.,,,-..........\|.,...,...\|..............\........ ...................,.........`-,...)-,..............,-`...,-....(`-,............\....... ......................f`-,.........`-,/...-,___,,-~....,-*......\|...`-,..........\........ Mayby becuase you havent relised as you never used the 'OP' RR but having an increased optimal reange means at close range it Does Less Damage try briging a RR at close range agaist a AR, your sure to lose Hey dummy stop posting..longer optimal does nothing to short range ...it is the same...35 dmg at 2 meters and 35 dmg at 75. go away. Only the antique laser rifle suffers from a difference in ranges. (close)
darkiller240 WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy 298	Posted - 2014.01.24 23:17:00 - [58] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: darkiller240 wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: darkiller240 wrote: really RR isent OP only the combat is a bit, the only reason your getting killed so quikely is becuase your amour tanking and your at their optimal range, RR at point blank range does half the damage AR noob KAGEHOSHI has been here since the beginning of Dust and posts so often that if you search his name on the forums you max out the post list. BTW, the post list max is 50 pages. And on KAGEHOSHI's list, he posts so much that those 50 pages only go back to November 14, 20013. Now.... let's see how much YOU know about Dust... Oh my... this is DELICIOUS! First ever forum post: 2013.06.02 3,124 kills 0.61 K/D 0.99 W/L 433,517 WP KAGEHOSHI has forgotten more Dust stats than you've ever known. Watch who you call a noob, scrub. You're in WAY over your head. and??? You come in here with your pitiful smidgen of Dust knowledge and impugn one of Dust's legends of being an AR noob. In doing so, you just showed how invalid any point you try to make may be as you know next to nothing about this game. darkiller240 wrote: also when has a DS pilot ever got good stats?? Pilots from my contacts list: Foxhound Elite: 28,646 kills 3.22 K/D 2.58 W/L steelRatt: 19,618 kills 1.82 K/D 2.23 W/L Mike Molle: 18,375 kills 2.83 K/D 2.38 W/L /conversation well sry for nor being part of the best .. -_- also enouh about stats i mess around alot because i can get bored of dust quikely i dont leave a match becuase of bad K/D or ovius lose also why brig them in the frist place, did your really go in game and search me up, dont you have nothing better to do, i think your hiding the fact you want an easy win. also i bearly play i wish they had played houres "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
darkiller240 WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy 298	Posted - 2014.01.24 23:19:00 - [59] - Quote lDocHollidayl wrote: darkiller240 wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: darkiller240 wrote: really RR isent OP only the combat is a bit, the only reason your getting killed so quikely is becuase your amour tanking and your at their optimal range, RR at point blank range does half the damage AR noob So RR gets a massive optimal that's about the size of the AR's effective range, but it doesn't sacrifice any DPS compared to the AR to get that huge range advantage; gaining huge advantages without gaining disadvantages as well is the definition of imbalance, advantages and disadvantages have to be balanced with each other. Even if the AR fights an RR in the AR's own optimal range, the DPS between both rifles will just be about the same, and the AR doesn't have any decisive advantages even in its own optimal. I'm not an "AR noob", I use SCR. RR noob ......................................__................................................ .............................,-~`-»lllllll`~,...................................... .......................,-~`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll-»`-,........................... ..................,-~llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll-,..................... ...............,-llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.\.................. .............;`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll,-~~-,llllllllllllllllllll\................. ..............\lllllllllllllllllllllllllll/.........\;;;;llllllllllll,-`~-,............... ...............\lllllllllllllllllllll,-...........`~-~-,...(.(-»`,`,................. ................\llllllllllll,-~.....................)_-\..`;..).................... .................\,-`-»,`)............,-~`~................/..................... ..................\|/.../.../~,......-~,-~`;................/.\.................. ................./.../.../.../..,-,..~,.`~...................\................. ................\|.../.../.../.`...\...........................)....)-»`~,.................. ................\|./.../..../.......)......,.)`~-,............/....\|..)...`~-,............. ..............././.../...,`-,.....`-,...`....,---......\..../...../..\|.........-»```~-,,,, ...............(..........)`~-,....``.,-~.,-......\|.../..../.../............\........ ................-,.......`-,...`~,..``.,,,-..........\|.,...,...\|..............\........ ...................,.........`-,...)-,..............,-`...,-....(`-,............\....... ......................f`-,.........`-,/...-,___,,-~....,-......\|...`-,..........\........ Mayby becuase you havent relised as you never used the 'OP' RR but having an increased optimal reange means at close range it Does Less Damage try briging a RR at close range agaist a AR, your sure to lose Hey dummy stop posting..longer optimal does nothing to short range ...it is the same...35 dmg at 2 meters and 35 dmg at 75. go away. Only the antique laser rifle suffers from a difference in ranges. (close) ok sry i was wronge, it happens but still its 116 dmg AR has on the RR "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results*." - Albert Einstein
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 2836	Posted - 2014.01.24 23:22:00 - [60] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: All stats are from prototype version Rages can be found here [Comparison] AR Range: 45m optimal, 78m effective DPS: (750 x 37.4 / 60) = 467.5 Damage profile: -10% shields, +10% armor RR Range: 75 optimal, 102 effective DPS: (461.54 x 60.5 / 60) Gëê 465.39 Damage profile: +10% shields, -10% armor [Analysis] The RR is basically the same as the AR DPS-wise (about s 2 point difference), but with waaaaaaaaay more range; the RR's optimal range is almost as high as the AR's effective range. For this massive range advantage. The only downside is a bit of kick, and a short spool up time. There is a problem. The RR must suffer disadvantages at close range (close range is meant to be the AR's domain) to counter its amazing long range, and lack of DPS sacrifice. The RR has to spool up as a close range disadvantage, but the problem is the spool up time is so negligible; this allows the RR to still be effective at close range. The RR has much more kick than the AR, but recoil only matters at long ranges. The shields/armor advantages and disadvantages cancel each other out since neither has a bigger bonus or disadvantage to their respective strong point (shield or armor) than the other. there is a reason sniper rifles don't have the same DPS as ARs. Same DPS plus a lot more range = OP. While the RR isn't a sniper rifle, the same principle applies here [Solution] It needs to have a higher spool up time (0.5 seconds) to make it not as good in close range. A damage or ROF reduction might also be necessary, something with that much range should not have as much DPS. I actually think the RR and breach AR should switch ROF stats, the RR is too good, and the breach AR doesn't have anything going for it. The breach AR shouldn't even exist. It was created as a placeholder for weapons that did not exist at the time, and its purpose has been outlived. It should not be balanced, it should be removed. The AR has too many variations. It's only natural they are ass.



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