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RR sacrifices no DPS compared to AR, gains huge range

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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8375	Posted - 2014.01.24 21:41:00 - [1] - Quote All stats are from prototype version Rages can be found here [Comparison] AR Range: 45m optimal, 78m effective DPS: (750 x 37.4 / 60) = 467.5 RR Range: 75 optimal, 102 effective DPS: (461.54 x 60.5 / 60) Gëê 465.39 [Analysis] The RR is basically the same as the AR DPS-wise (about s 2 point difference), but with waaaaaaaaay more range; the RR's optimal range is almost as high as the AR's effective range. For this massive range advantage. The only downside is a bit of kick, and a short spool up time. There is a problem. The RR must suffer disadvantages at close range (close range is meant to be the AR's domain) to counter its amazing long range, and lack of DPS sacrifice. The RR has to spool up as a close range disadvantage, but the problem is the spool up time is so negligible; this allows the RR to still be effective at close range. The RR has much more kick than the AR, but recoil only matters at long ranges. [Solution] It needs to have a higher spool up time (0.5 seconds) to make it not as good in close range. A damage or ROF reduction might also be necessary, something with that much range should not have as much DPS. I actually think the RR and breach AR should switch ROF stats, the RR is too good, and the breach AR doesn't have anything going for it. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1690	Posted - 2014.01.24 21:43:00 - [2] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: All stats are from prototype version Rages can be found here [Comparison] AR Range: 45m optimal, 78m effective DPS: (750 x 37.4 / 60) = 467.5 RR Range: 75 optimal, 102 effective DPS: (461.54 x 60.5 / 60) Gëê 465.39 [Analysis] The RR is basically the same as the AR DPS-wise (about s 2 point difference), but with waaaaaaaaay more range; the RR's optimal range is almost as high as the AR's effective range. For this massive range advantage. The only downside is a bit of kick, and a short spool up time. There is a problem. The RR must suffer disadvantages at close range (close range is meant to be the AR's domain) to counter its amazing long range, and lack of DPS sacrifice. The RR has to spool up as a close range disadvantage, but the problem is the spool up time is so negligible; this allows the RR to still be effective at close range. The RR has much more kick than the AR, but recoil only matters at long ranges. [Solution] It needs to have a higher spool up time (0.5 seconds) to make it not as good in close range. A damage or ROF reduction might also be necessary, something with that much range should not have as much DPS. I actually think the RR and breach AR should switch ROF stats, the RR is too good, and the breach AR doesn't have anything going for it. +1 Armor and Shields are not the same!
Dusters Blog Galactic News Network 582	Posted - 2014.01.24 21:43:00 - [3] - Quote support this. would like to see Gal wpns with fast ADS, higher dmg, rof and best hipfire in the game. RR needs bad hipfire, longer spool and slower ADS,
darkiller240 WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy 296	Posted - 2014.01.24 21:44:00 - [4] - Quote really RR isent OP only the combat is a bit, the only reason your getting killed so quikely is becuase your amour tanking and your at their optimal range, RR at point blank range does half the damage "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 228	Posted - 2014.01.24 21:48:00 - [5] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: All stats are from prototype version Rages can be found here [Comparison] AR Range: 45m optimal, 78m effective DPS: (750 x 37.4 / 60) = 467.5 RR Range: 75 optimal, 102 effective DPS: (461.54 x 60.5 / 60) Gëê 465.39 [Analysis] The RR is basically the same as the AR DPS-wise (about s 2 point difference), but with waaaaaaaaay more range; the RR's optimal range is almost as high as the AR's effective range. For this massive range advantage. The only downside is a bit of kick, and a short spool up time. There is a problem. The RR must suffer disadvantages at close range (close range is meant to be the AR's domain) to counter its amazing long range, and lack of DPS sacrifice. The RR has to spool up as a close range disadvantage, but the problem is the spool up time is so negligible; this allows the RR to still be effective at close range. The RR has much more kick than the AR, but recoil only matters at long ranges. [Solution] It needs to have a higher spool up time (0.5 seconds) to make it not as good in close range. A damage or ROF reduction might also be necessary, something with that much range should not have as much DPS. I actually think the RR and breach AR should switch ROF stats, the RR is too good, and the breach AR doesn't have anything going for it. Your not factoring in the shield efficacy bonus gal plasma rifle has. Your also not comparing 2 of the same versions of weapon, the gek or duvolle should only be comparable with the sl4 or iskukone.
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2076	Posted - 2014.01.24 21:51:00 - [6] - Quote I think making it have high dispersion when hipfiring and a .25 increase to spool up time would balance the weapon. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8378	Posted - 2014.01.24 21:54:00 - [7] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: All stats are from prototype version Rages can be found here [Comparison] AR Range: 45m optimal, 78m effective DPS: (750 x 37.4 / 60) = 467.5 RR Range: 75 optimal, 102 effective DPS: (461.54 x 60.5 / 60) Gëê 465.39 [Analysis] The RR is basically the same as the AR DPS-wise (about s 2 point difference), but with waaaaaaaaay more range; the RR's optimal range is almost as high as the AR's effective range. For this massive range advantage. The only downside is a bit of kick, and a short spool up time. There is a problem. The RR must suffer disadvantages at close range (close range is meant to be the AR's domain) to counter its amazing long range, and lack of DPS sacrifice. The RR has to spool up as a close range disadvantage, but the problem is the spool up time is so negligible; this allows the RR to still be effective at close range. The RR has much more kick than the AR, but recoil only matters at long ranges. [Solution] It needs to have a higher spool up time (0.5 seconds) to make it not as good in close range. A damage or ROF reduction might also be necessary, something with that much range should not have as much DPS. I actually think the RR and breach AR should switch ROF stats, the RR is too good, and the breach AR doesn't have anything going for it. Your not factoring in the shield efficacy bonus gal plasma rifle has. Your also not comparing 2 of the same versions of weapon, the gek or duvolle should only be comparable with the sl4 or iskukone. AR shield bonus is matched by RR armor bonus, so no need to account for bonuses/resistances. I compared the Kaalakiota rail rifle to the Duvolle AR, both prototype, both automatic. I don't see why I should only compare it against the assault RR. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 10341	Posted - 2014.01.24 21:55:00 - [8] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: really RR isent OP only the combat is a bit, the only reason your getting killed so quikely is becuase your amour tanking and your at their optimal range, RR at point blank range does half the damage AR noob ..... Only if you're a RR noob who can only land half his shots.... Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
darkiller240 WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy 296	Posted - 2014.01.24 21:57:00 - [9] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: darkiller240 wrote: really RR isent OP only the combat is a bit, the only reason your getting killed so quikely is becuase your amour tanking and your at their optimal range, RR at point blank range does half the damage AR noob ..... Only if you're a RR noob who can only land half his shots.... no becuase im not RR noob im pilot speding most of my time in the sky but the time i spend on the ground i know that RR isent Op you just cant get over the fact that now there is more then 1 dominating gun,now there are 3. "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
darkiller240 WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy 296	Posted - 2014.01.24 21:58:00 - [10] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: All stats are from prototype version Rages can be found here [Comparison] AR Range: 45m optimal, 78m effective DPS: (750 x 37.4 / 60) = 467.5 RR Range: 75 optimal, 102 effective DPS: (461.54 x 60.5 / 60) Gëê 465.39 [Analysis] The RR is basically the same as the AR DPS-wise (about s 2 point difference), but with waaaaaaaaay more range; the RR's optimal range is almost as high as the AR's effective range. For this massive range advantage. The only downside is a bit of kick, and a short spool up time. There is a problem. The RR must suffer disadvantages at close range (close range is meant to be the AR's domain) to counter its amazing long range, and lack of DPS sacrifice. The RR has to spool up as a close range disadvantage, but the problem is the spool up time is so negligible; this allows the RR to still be effective at close range. The RR has much more kick than the AR, but recoil only matters at long ranges. [Solution] It needs to have a higher spool up time (0.5 seconds) to make it not as good in close range. A damage or ROF reduction might also be necessary, something with that much range should not have as much DPS. I actually think the RR and breach AR should switch ROF stats, the RR is too good, and the breach AR doesn't have anything going for it. Your not factoring in the shield efficacy bonus gal plasma rifle has. Your also not comparing 2 of the same versions of weapon, the gek or duvolle should only be comparable with the sl4 or iskukone. AR shield bonus is matched by RR armor bonus, so no need to account for bonuses/resistances. I compared the Kaalakiota rail rifle to the Duvolle AR, both prototype, both automatic. I don't see why I should only compare it against the assault RR. AR has a fatser TTK and a higher ROF meaning its easier to hit your target and quiker to take them down. "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 396	Posted - 2014.01.24 21:59:00 - [11] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: The RR has to spool up as a close range disadvantage, but the problem is the spool up time is so negligible Considering you did the math I guess you realize that the AR does 116 damage in the time it takes the RR to spool up? Is that not a serious advantage for the RR user? I would strongly advice against doubling the spool up time. I barely use the RR, but I feel that it would be completely gone if spool-up was increased by more than maybe 0.1 of a second.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 10343	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:00:00 - [12] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: The RR has to spool up as a close range disadvantage, but the problem is the spool up time is so negligible Considering you did the math I guess you realize that the AR does 116 damage in the time it takes the RR to spool up? Is that not a serious advantage for the RR user? I would strongly advice against doubling the spool up time. I barely use the RR, but I feel that it would be completely gone if spool-up was increased by more than maybe 0.1 of a second. Well, it's supposed to be a meaningful drawback in CQC, and the spool up is negligible in general at long ranges since you can generally dictate when that engagement begins Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8378	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:01:00 - [13] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: really RR isent OP only the combat is a bit, the only reason your getting killed so quikely is becuase your amour tanking and your at their optimal range, RR at point blank range does half the damage AR noob So RR gets a massive optimal that's about the size of the AR's effective range, but it doesn't sacrifice any DPS compared to the AR to get that huge range advantage; gaining huge advantages without gaining disadvantages as well is the definition of imbalance, advantages and disadvantages have to be balanced with each other. Even if the AR fights an RR in the AR's own optimal range, the DPS between both rifles will just be about the same, and the AR doesn't have any decisive advantages even in its own optimal. I'm not an "AR noob", I use SCR. RR noob Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Zimander Tickle My Null-Sac 25	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:02:00 - [14] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: All stats are from prototype version Rages can be found here [Comparison] AR Range: 45m optimal, 78m effective DPS: (750 x 37.4 / 60) = 467.5 RR Range: 75 optimal, 102 effective DPS: (461.54 x 60.5 / 60) Gëê 465.39 [Analysis] The RR is basically the same as the AR DPS-wise (about s 2 point difference), but with waaaaaaaaay more range; the RR's optimal range is almost as high as the AR's effective range. For this massive range advantage. The only downside is a bit of kick, and a short spool up time. There is a problem. The RR must suffer disadvantages at close range (close range is meant to be the AR's domain) to counter its amazing long range, and lack of DPS sacrifice. The RR has to spool up as a close range disadvantage, but the problem is the spool up time is so negligible; this allows the RR to still be effective at close range. The RR has much more kick than the AR, but recoil only matters at long ranges. [Solution] It needs to have a higher spool up time (0.5 seconds) to make it not as good in close range. A damage or ROF reduction might also be necessary, something with that much range should not have as much DPS. I actually think the RR and breach AR should switch ROF stats, the RR is too good, and the breach AR doesn't have anything going for it. NO ITS NOT RR have -15% to armor and +10% or +15% to shield when AR have -5% to shield and +5 to armor or something like that so when u go against Armor u loos
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8378	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:05:00 - [15] - Quote Zimander wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: All stats are from prototype version Rages can be found here [Comparison] AR Range: 45m optimal, 78m effective DPS: (750 x 37.4 / 60) = 467.5 RR Range: 75 optimal, 102 effective DPS: (461.54 x 60.5 / 60) Gëê 465.39 [Analysis] The RR is basically the same as the AR DPS-wise (about s 2 point difference), but with waaaaaaaaay more range; the RR's optimal range is almost as high as the AR's effective range. For this massive range advantage. The only downside is a bit of kick, and a short spool up time. There is a problem. The RR must suffer disadvantages at close range (close range is meant to be the AR's domain) to counter its amazing long range, and lack of DPS sacrifice. The RR has to spool up as a close range disadvantage, but the problem is the spool up time is so negligible; this allows the RR to still be effective at close range. The RR has much more kick than the AR, but recoil only matters at long ranges. [Solution] It needs to have a higher spool up time (0.5 seconds) to make it not as good in close range. A damage or ROF reduction might also be necessary, something with that much range should not have as much DPS. I actually think the RR and breach AR should switch ROF stats, the RR is too good, and the breach AR doesn't have anything going for it. NO ITS NOT RR have -15% to armor and +10% or +15% to shield when AR have -5% to shield and +5 to armor or something like that so when u go against Armor u loos LOL RR has -10% against shields, and +10% against armor AR has +10% against shields, and -10% against armor Get your facts straight Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 293	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:07:00 - [16] - Quote AR works better against shields. RR has spool up, which limits DPS in the first second. Neither were taken into account by the OP.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8378	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:07:00 - [17] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: All stats are from prototype version Rages can be found here [Comparison] AR Range: 45m optimal, 78m effective DPS: (750 x 37.4 / 60) = 467.5 RR Range: 75 optimal, 102 effective DPS: (461.54 x 60.5 / 60) Gëê 465.39 [Analysis] The RR is basically the same as the AR DPS-wise (about s 2 point difference), but with waaaaaaaaay more range; the RR's optimal range is almost as high as the AR's effective range. For this massive range advantage. The only downside is a bit of kick, and a short spool up time. There is a problem. The RR must suffer disadvantages at close range (close range is meant to be the AR's domain) to counter its amazing long range, and lack of DPS sacrifice. The RR has to spool up as a close range disadvantage, but the problem is the spool up time is so negligible; this allows the RR to still be effective at close range. The RR has much more kick than the AR, but recoil only matters at long ranges. [Solution] It needs to have a higher spool up time (0.5 seconds) to make it not as good in close range. A damage or ROF reduction might also be necessary, something with that much range should not have as much DPS. I actually think the RR and breach AR should switch ROF stats, the RR is too good, and the breach AR doesn't have anything going for it. Your not factoring in the shield efficacy bonus gal plasma rifle has. Your also not comparing 2 of the same versions of weapon, the gek or duvolle should only be comparable with the sl4 or iskukone. AR shield bonus is matched by RR armor bonus, so no need to account for bonuses/resistances. I compared the Kaalakiota rail rifle to the Duvolle AR, both prototype, both automatic. I don't see why I should only compare it against the assault RR. AR has a fatser TTK and a higher ROF meaning its easier to hit your target and quiker to take them down. I already showed in the OP that they have nearly identical TTK with the damage per second calculations. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 293	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:11:00 - [18] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: darkiller240 wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: All stats are from prototype version Rages can be found here [Comparison] AR Range: 45m optimal, 78m effective DPS: (750 x 37.4 / 60) = 467.5 RR Range: 75 optimal, 102 effective DPS: (461.54 x 60.5 / 60) Gëê 465.39 [Analysis] The RR is basically the same as the AR DPS-wise (about s 2 point difference), but with waaaaaaaaay more range; the RR's optimal range is almost as high as the AR's effective range. For this massive range advantage. The only downside is a bit of kick, and a short spool up time. There is a problem. The RR must suffer disadvantages at close range (close range is meant to be the AR's domain) to counter its amazing long range, and lack of DPS sacrifice. The RR has to spool up as a close range disadvantage, but the problem is the spool up time is so negligible; this allows the RR to still be effective at close range. The RR has much more kick than the AR, but recoil only matters at long ranges. [Solution] It needs to have a higher spool up time (0.5 seconds) to make it not as good in close range. A damage or ROF reduction might also be necessary, something with that much range should not have as much DPS. I actually think the RR and breach AR should switch ROF stats, the RR is too good, and the breach AR doesn't have anything going for it. Your not factoring in the shield efficacy bonus gal plasma rifle has. Your also not comparing 2 of the same versions of weapon, the gek or duvolle should only be comparable with the sl4 or iskukone. AR shield bonus is matched by RR armor bonus, so no need to account for bonuses/resistances. I compared the Kaalakiota rail rifle to the Duvolle AR, both prototype, both automatic. I don't see why I should only compare it against the assault RR. AR has a fatser TTK and a higher ROF meaning its easier to hit your target and quiker to take them down. I already showed in the OP that they have nearly identical TTK with the damage per second calculations. And I believe you neglected to take into account the effect of spool up in your calculations -- so your numbers are wrong. Respectfully...Leadfoot
darkiller240 WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy 296	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:11:00 - [19] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: darkiller240 wrote: really RR isent OP only the combat is a bit, the only reason your getting killed so quikely is becuase your amour tanking and your at their optimal range, RR at point blank range does half the damage AR noob So RR gets a massive optimal that's about the size of the AR's effective range, but it doesn't sacrifice any DPS compared to the AR to get that huge range advantage; gaining huge advantages without gaining disadvantages as well is the definition of imbalance, advantages and disadvantages have to be balanced with each other. Even if the AR fights an RR in the AR's own optimal range, the DPS between both rifles will just be about the same, and the AR doesn't have any decisive advantages even in its own optimal. I'm not an "AR noob", I use SCR. RR noob ......................................__................................................ .............................,-~`-»lllllll`~,...................................... .......................,-~`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll-»`-,........................... ..................,-~llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll-,..................... ...............,-llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.\.................. .............;`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll,-~~-,llllllllllllllllllll\................. ..............\lllllllllllllllllllllllllll/.........\;;;;llllllllllll,-`~-,............... ...............\lllllllllllllllllllll,-...........`~-~-,...(.(-»`,`,................. ................\llllllllllll,-~.....................)_-\..`;..).................... .................\,-`-»,`)............,-~`~................/..................... ..................\|/.../.../~,......-~,-~`;................/.\.................. ................./.../.../.../..,-,..~,.`~...................\................. ................\|.../.../.../.`...\...........................)....)-»`~,.................. ................\|./.../..../.......)......,.)`~-,............/....\|..)...`~-,............. ..............././.../...,`-,.....`-,...`....,---......\..../...../..\|.........-»```~-,,,, ...............(..........)`~-,....``.,-~.,-......\|.../..../.../............\........ ................-,.......`-,...`~,..``.,,,-..........\|.,...,...\|..............\........ ...................,.........`-,...)-,..............,-`...,-....(`-,............\....... ......................f`-,.........`-,/...-,___,,-~....,-......\|...`-,..........\........ Mayby becuase you havent relised as you never used the 'OP' RR but having an increased optimal reange means at close range it Does Less Damage try briging a RR at close range agaist a AR, your sure to lose "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results*." - Albert Einstein
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8380	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:11:00 - [20] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: AR works better against shields. RR has spool up, which limits DPS in the first second. Neither were taken into account by the OP. Seriously? The shields/armor advantages and disadvantages cancel each other out since neither has a bigger bonus or disadvantage to their respective strong point (shield or armor) than the other. I did cover the spool up time, I said it wasn't enough to really make a difference. The massive range advantage still more than makes up for it. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+

Izlare Lenix FREE AGENTS LP 107	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:12:00 - [21] - Quote In cqc the spool up time of the RR is meaningless when soooooo many squads are running around with scanners. When a RR user knows someone is about to come around the corner they prefire the gun so they are shooting the red one he shows his face, thus minimizing the effect of the spool up time. While this is not necessarily the RRs fault, the current meta gameplay which focuses heavily on scanners has allowed the long range RR to become very powerful in cqc.
darkiller240 WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy 296	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:13:00 - [22] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: In cqc the spool up time of the RR is meaningless when soooooo many squads are running around with scanners. When a RR user knows someone is about to come around the corner they prefire the gun so they are shooting the red one he shows his face, thus minimizing the effect of the spool up time. While this is not necessarily the RRs fault, the current meta gameplay which focuses heavily on scanners has allowed the long range RR to become very powerful in cqc. what your saying is inteligence is OP, well great ..... "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
Horizen Kenpachi Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 132	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:15:00 - [23] - Quote Ar ads is op rail rifle jumps everywhere let me guess another lvl 5 prov 5 ar 514 qq i lol at ar proto eat the nerf bat ur time is over hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Hit me with your nerf bat.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 293	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:16:00 - [24] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: AR works better against shields. RR has spool up, which limits DPS in the first second. Neither were taken into account by the OP. Seriously? The shields/armor advantages and disadvantages cancel each other out since neither has a bigger bonus or disadvantage to their respective strong point (shield or armor) than the other. I did cover the spool up time, I said it wasn't enough to really make a difference. The massive range advantage still more than makes up for it. Yes, really. Your title says the "RR sacrifices no DBS compared to AR". When, in fact, it does when facing shields. Your calculations also neglected to take into effect spool up. I see that you wrote about the spool up issues -- all the while ignoring the real damage that doesn't take place during the spool up time -- and I would say 100+ damage is quite significant. Now, you might think, and you have argued, that "the massive range advantage still more than makes up for it" -- but that doesn't change the error in your calculations or the fact that others might draw different conclusions. All of the above said, I do think the AR needs some tweaking (perhaps an increase in DPS) so that it truly becomes the short range dominant weapon. However, I'm not sure that simply nerfing the RR is the answer, either., or even warranted given how it stacks up against the SCR, CR, and even the HMG/SMG. Respectfully...Leadfoot
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8380	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:17:00 - [25] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: darkiller240 wrote: really RR isent OP only the combat is a bit, the only reason your getting killed so quikely is becuase your amour tanking and your at their optimal range, RR at point blank range does half the damage AR noob So RR gets a massive optimal that's about the size of the AR's effective range, but it doesn't sacrifice any DPS compared to the AR to get that huge range advantage; gaining huge advantages without gaining disadvantages as well is the definition of imbalance, advantages and disadvantages have to be balanced with each other. Even if the AR fights an RR in the AR's own optimal range, the DPS between both rifles will just be about the same, and the AR doesn't have any decisive advantages even in its own optimal. I'm not an "AR noob", I use SCR. RR noob ......................................__................................................ .............................,-~`-»lllllll`~,...................................... .......................,-~`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll-»`-,........................... ..................,-~llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll-,..................... ...............,-llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.\.................. .............;`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll,-~~-,llllllllllllllllllll\................. ..............\lllllllllllllllllllllllllll/.........\;;;;llllllllllll,-`~-,............... ...............\lllllllllllllllllllll,-...........`~-~-,...(.(-»`,`,................. ................\llllllllllll,-~.....................)_-\..`;..).................... .................\,-`-»,`)............,-~`~................/..................... ..................\|/.../.../~,......-~,-~`;................/.\.................. ................./.../.../.../..,-,..~,.`~...................\................. ................\|.../.../.../.`...\...........................)....)-»`~,.................. ................\|./.../..../.......)......,.)`~-,............/....\|..)...`~-,............. ..............././.../...,`-,.....`-,...`....,---......\..../...../..\|.........-»```~-,,,, ...............(..........)`~-,....``.,-~.,-......\|.../..../.../............\........ ................-,.......`-,...`~,..``.,,,-..........\|.,...,...\|..............\........ ...................,.........`-,...)-,..............,-`...,-....(`-,............\....... ......................f`-,.........`-,/...-,___,,-~....,-......\|...`-,..........\........ Mayby becuase you havent relised as you never used the 'OP' RR but having an increased optimal reange means at close range it Does Less Damage try briging a RR at close range agaist a AR, your sure to lose OMG, I'm getting annoyed at this misinformation. The optimal starts from 0 meters and goes up to 75. At close range it is still in its optima range, and will do FULL DAMAGE. The laser rifle is the only weapon in which the optimal does not start at 0, thus does less damage at close range. The RR and every other weapon does not work like that. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt* Gû¦Gû+
darkiller240 WarRavens Auxiliaries League of Infamy 296	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:18:00 - [26] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: darkiller240 wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: darkiller240 wrote: really RR isent OP only the combat is a bit, the only reason your getting killed so quikely is becuase your amour tanking and your at their optimal range, RR at point blank range does half the damage AR noob So RR gets a massive optimal that's about the size of the AR's effective range, but it doesn't sacrifice any DPS compared to the AR to get that huge range advantage; gaining huge advantages without gaining disadvantages as well is the definition of imbalance, advantages and disadvantages have to be balanced with each other. Even if the AR fights an RR in the AR's own optimal range, the DPS between both rifles will just be about the same, and the AR doesn't have any decisive advantages even in its own optimal. I'm not an "AR noob", I use SCR. RR noob ......................................__................................................ .............................,-~`-»lllllll`~,...................................... .......................,-~`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll-»`-,........................... ..................,-~llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll-,..................... ...............,-llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.\.................. .............;`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll,-~~-,llllllllllllllllllll\................. ..............\lllllllllllllllllllllllllll/.........\;;;;llllllllllll,-`~-,............... ...............\lllllllllllllllllllll,-...........`~-~-,...(.(-»`,`,................. ................\llllllllllll,-~.....................)_-\..`;..).................... .................\,-`-»,`)............,-~`~................/..................... ..................\|/.../.../~,......-~,-~`;................/.\.................. ................./.../.../.../..,-,..~,.`~...................\................. ................\|.../.../.../.`...\...........................)....)-»`~,.................. ................\|./.../..../.......)......,.)`~-,............/....\|..)...`~-,............. ..............././.../...,`-,.....`-,...`....,---......\..../...../..\|.........-»```~-,,,, ...............(..........)`~-,....``.,-~.,-......\|.../..../.../............\........ ................-,.......`-,...`~,..``.,,,-..........\|.,...,...\|..............\........ ...................,.........`-,...)-,..............,-`...,-....(`-,............\....... ......................f`-,.........`-,/...-,___,,-~....,-......\|...`-,..........\........ Mayby becuase you havent relised as you never used the 'OP' RR but having an increased optimal reange means at close range it Does Less Damage try briging a RR at close range agaist a AR, your sure to lose OMG, I'm getting annoyed at this misinformation. The optimal starts from 0 meters and goes up to 75. At close range it is still in its optima range, and will do FULL DAMAGE. The laser rifle is the only weapon in which the optimal does not start at 0, thus does less damage at close range. The RR and every other weapon does not work like that. Last time i checked this was true to all guns "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results*." - Albert Einstein
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 10346	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:19:00 - [27] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: darkiller240 wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: darkiller240 wrote: really RR isent OP only the combat is a bit, the only reason your getting killed so quikely is becuase your amour tanking and your at their optimal range, RR at point blank range does half the damage AR noob So RR gets a massive optimal that's about the size of the AR's effective range, but it doesn't sacrifice any DPS compared to the AR to get that huge range advantage; gaining huge advantages without gaining disadvantages as well is the definition of imbalance, advantages and disadvantages have to be balanced with each other. Even if the AR fights an RR in the AR's own optimal range, the DPS between both rifles will just be about the same, and the AR doesn't have any decisive advantages even in its own optimal. I'm not an "AR noob", I use SCR. RR noob ......................................__................................................ .............................,-~`-»lllllll`~,...................................... .......................,-~`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll-»`-,........................... ..................,-~llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll-,..................... ...............,-llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.\.................. .............;`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll,-~~-,llllllllllllllllllll\................. ..............\lllllllllllllllllllllllllll/.........\;;;;llllllllllll,-`~-,............... ...............\lllllllllllllllllllll,-...........`~-~-,...(.(-»`,`,................. ................\llllllllllll,-~.....................)_-\..`;..).................... .................\,-`-»,`)............,-~`~................/..................... ..................\|/.../.../~,......-~,-~`;................/.\.................. ................./.../.../.../..,-,..~,.`~...................\................. ................\|.../.../.../.`...\...........................)....)-»`~,.................. ................\|./.../..../.......)......,.)`~-,............/....\|..)...`~-,............. ..............././.../...,`-,.....`-,...`....,---......\..../...../..\|.........-»```~-,,,, ...............(..........)`~-,....``.,-~.,-......\|.../..../.../............\........ ................-,.......`-,...`~,..``.,,,-..........\|.,...,...\|..............\........ ...................,.........`-,...)-,..............,-`...,-....(`-,............\....... ......................f`-,.........`-,/...-,___,,-~....,-*......\|...`-,..........\........ Mayby becuase you havent relised as you never used the 'OP' RR but having an increased optimal reange means at close range it Does Less Damage try briging a RR at close range agaist a AR, your sure to lose OMG, I'm getting annoyed at this misinformation. The optimal starts from 0 meters and goes up to 75. At close range it is still in its optima range, and will do FULL DAMAGE. The laser rifle is the only weapon in which the optimal does not start at 0, thus does less damage at close range. The RR and every other weapon does not work like that. The little picture just makes it so much better. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Zimander Tickle My Null-Sac 25	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:21:00 - [28] - Quote lol in deed, was not sure if that 100% right but still there r not equal compare AR Duv with Ish Assault RR not with RR and then we can talk or Tac Duv wit Kal RR EDIT: IN THIS GAME EVERYONE HAVE PROBLEM WIT EVERYTHING BE OP MAKE EVERYTHINK 1SHUT=1HP DPS AND ALL THE OP GONE STOP
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1478	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:22:00 - [29] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Yes, really. Your title says the "RR sacrifices no DPS compared to AR". When, in fact, it does when facing shields. Armor is currently tanking flavor of the month, so, about that argument... I used to own the FAT GAT until this --> [ASCII Art removed - *draconian forum overlord* CCP Logibro]
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2075	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:22:00 - [30] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: darkiller240 wrote: really RR isent OP only the combat is a bit, the only reason your getting killed so quikely is becuase your amour tanking and your at their optimal range, RR at point blank range does half the damage AR noob So RR gets a massive optimal that's about the size of the AR's effective range, but it doesn't sacrifice any DPS compared to the AR to get that huge range advantage; gaining huge advantages without gaining disadvantages as well is the definition of imbalance, advantages and disadvantages have to be balanced with each other. Even if the AR fights an RR in the AR's own optimal range, the DPS between both rifles will just be about the same, and the AR doesn't have any decisive advantages even in its own optimal. I'm not an "AR noob", I use SCR. RR noob ......................................__................................................ .............................,-~`-»lllllll`~,...................................... .......................,-~`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll-»`-,........................... ..................,-~llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll-,..................... ...............,-llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.\.................. .............;`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll,-~~-,llllllllllllllllllll\................. ..............\lllllllllllllllllllllllllll/.........\;;;;llllllllllll,-`~-,............... ...............\lllllllllllllllllllll,-...........`~-~-,...(.(-»`,`,................. ................\llllllllllll,-~.....................)_-\..`;..).................... .................\,-`-»,`)............,-~`~................/..................... ..................\|/.../.../~,......-~,-~`;................/.\.................. ................./.../.../.../..,-,..~,.`~...................\................. ................\|.../.../.../.`...\...........................)....)-»`~,.................. ................\|./.../..../.......)......,.)`~-,............/....\|..)...`~-,............. ..............././.../...,`-,.....`-,...`....,---......\..../...../..\|.........-»```~-,,,, ...............(..........)`~-,....``.,-~.,-......\|.../..../.../............\........ ................-,.......`-,...`~,..``.,,,-..........\|.,...,...\|..............\........ ...................,.........`-,...)-,..............,-`...,-....(`-,............\....... ......................f`-,.........`-,/...-,___,,-~....,-*......\|...`-,..........\........ Mayby becuase you havent relised as you never used the 'OP' RR but having an increased optimal reange means at close range it Does Less Damage try briging a RR at close range agaist a AR, your sure to lose RR does full damage in CQC I'm sorry to inform... if you can't beat an AR user with a RR you are a scrub... Lead Shields blow ass Armor and Dam mods FTW! RR's tough get more range and work great in CQC a ROF nerf is in order. A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars



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