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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2053
   |
Posted - 2014.01.21 17:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
And if that remains the case, MLT tanks shouldn't change at all. As it stands, they are the most effective way to deal with a std tank not to mention the cost is extremely reasonable.
That's not to say I don't think tanks need to be tuned slightly, but I honestly think std tanks are working as intended. Price is a little low for the power you get out of it, but that's not what we are talking about today.
I think the only way to stop the MLT tank spam and restore balance to the field is to buff AV slightly. We can talk about webs and other potential AV counters, but we something in the now.
As it stands, I think they got the FG just right, I also think the range nerf for swarms and the dmg nerf for AV nades were spot on.
However, the dmg and mag nerf made the swarm launcher useless except when at Proto, and even then the results are often underwhelming.
Now I don't think we should get back full dmg or 5 rounds before reload, but I think 4 in the mag and a 30-50 dmg buff would solve a lot of the problem we have on the battlefield and stop MLT tank spam. Also, if it possible, give AV nades bonus vs LAVs and dropships ONLY. If a LAV stops long enough it should be 3 shotted by packed AV. Same goes for dropships that get too close.
That's all I gotz.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
491
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Posted - 2014.01.21 17:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
I find tanks explode rather quickly if they are MLT and blindly wandering around an objective.
If you can read this, it means you are reading.
Unless you are skimming
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Nothing Certain
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2014.01.21 17:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
I think one problem is that we allowed tankers to convince us that tanks being OP is the way it should be. They count as one character, one entity, on the field yet if we take a militia tank, no modules and compare it to drop suits what do we see? A tank can one shot anybody, a forge gun takes 3 or 4 shots to kill a tank. Sprint speed is around 7 meters a second, tank speed is 5 times that, drop suits can be killed by small arms, tanks are immune to small arms, if a suit jumps on a tank it is funny, if a tank runs over a suit it is dead, suits can only change suits at supply depots, tanks can be recalled or called at any time, when a suit is in the verge of death, they die, a tanker can jump out and fight as a suit do is essentially playing as two characters. Forget about hardeners and Speed boosts, tanks are OP. The funny thing is that we are willing to accept it, until they broke the camel's back.
Tankers, even though they are only one character, think they should be entitled to all these advantages. I'm actually OK with it, just don't insult our intelligence saying tanks are balanced or that this is even the goal. |
Onesimus Tarsus
891
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Posted - 2014.01.21 17:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tanks are PvE. The dumbest AI runs them and you just outsmart it.
I don't date magnets, but it's difficult to deny the attraction.
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2056
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 17:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:I think one problem is that we allowed tankers to convince us that tanks being OP is the way it should be. They count as one character, one entity, on the field yet if we take a militia tank, no modules and compare it to drop suits what do we see? A tank can one shot anybody, a forge gun takes 3 or 4 shots to kill a tank. Sprint speed is around 7 meters a second, tank speed is 5 times that, drop suits can be killed by small arms, tanks are immune to small arms, if a suit jumps on a tank it is funny, if a tank runs over a suit it is dead, suits can only change suits at supply depots, tanks can be recalled or called at any time, when a suit is in the verge of death, they die, a tanker can jump out and fight as a suit do is essentially playing as two characters. Forget about hardeners and Speed boosts, tanks are OP. The funny thing is that we are willing to accept it, until they broke the camel's back.
Tankers, even though they are only one character, think they should be entitled to all these advantages. I'm actually OK with it, just don't insult our intelligence saying tanks are balanced or that this is even the goal.
Tanks should be harder to take down, just not impossible. And I honestly think a lot of current tanks and their prices will change in the future, and this is more of a test run. I'm just not sure why they decided to test nerfing and AV and buffing tanks at the same time. Doing one, then the other would have made more sense IMO.
I've been using AV for a good while now, my 2nd Proto weapon was the swarm launcher back in beta. I really don't hate tanks or love tanks, I'd just like everything to be balanced.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
3753
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Posted - 2014.01.21 17:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'd say give the Forge Gun a faster recharge time.
Although, I think a MLT/STD LAV should be 1 shotted by a Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade. Not 3.
Pretty much nailed it on the head though. Good Job
Next On To-Do List:
Particle Cannons
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1108
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 17:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote: hmmm time to do DAMAGE CONTROL so no one does anything to my IWINZ tank.
That's all I gotz.
Pauses Dragons Dogma.
Looks at tank scrubs running triple hardners
Hey Cody nothing personal and with all due respect but *_*_*_* OFF!!
Checks to see if Planetside 2 is going to be ready by April or May.
Continues playing Dragons Dogma.
Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!!
Jumps into escape pod!
Selected destination Planet PS4.
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2056
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 17:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Atiim wrote:I'd say give the Forge Gun a faster recharge time.
Although, I think a MLT/STD LAV should be 1 shotted by a Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade. Not 3.
Pretty much nailed it on the head though. Good Job
Oh yeah, Proto Packed AV one should LAVs regardless of race it belongs to(well, maybe the Amarr LAV should survive...)
I think the FG charge time was broken, simply because with skills the thing could out DPS anything on the field. I really do believe the FG was balanced perfectly.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2056
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 17:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:Cody Sietz wrote: hmmm time to do DAMAGE CONTROL so no one does anything to my IWINZ tank.
That's all I gotz. Pauses Dragons Dogma. Looks at tank scrubs running triple hardners Hey Cody nothing personal and with all due respect but *_*_*_* OFF!! Checks to see if Planetside 2 is going to be ready by April or May. Continues playing Dragons Dogma. i don't run tanks?
I think triple or even double hardeners are broken, buts apart of the tune up I mentioned.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2260
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 18:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Atiim wrote:I'd say give the Forge Gun a faster recharge time.
Although, I think a MLT/STD LAV should be 1 shotted by a Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade. Not 3.
Pretty much nailed it on the head though. Good Job
FG is fine i use it
lolno wanting a grenade to do 3k+ dmg lol, we had that last build and it was BS on all vehicles so lolno, its a AV support weapon not a primary weapon
Intelligence is OP
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2056
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Posted - 2014.01.21 18:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:I'd say give the Forge Gun a faster recharge time.
Although, I think a MLT/STD LAV should be 1 shotted by a Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade. Not 3.
Pretty much nailed it on the head though. Good Job FG is fine i use it lolno wanting a grenade to do 3k+ dmg lol, we had that last build and it was BS on all vehicles so lolno, its a AV support weapon not a primary weapon
I think if AV nades got a big multiplier VS LAVs and dropships then that would solve the issue of them being too OP vs tanks.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1108
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Posted - 2014.01.21 18:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:I think one problem is that we allowed tankers to convince us that tanks being OP is the way it should be. They count as one character, one entity, on the field yet if we take a militia tank, no modules and compare it to drop suits what do we see? A tank can one shot anybody, a forge gun takes 3 or 4 shots to kill a tank. Sprint speed is around 7 meters a second, tank speed is 5 times that, drop suits can be killed by small arms, tanks are immune to small arms, if a suit jumps on a tank it is funny, if a tank runs over a suit it is dead, suits can only change suits at supply depots, tanks can be recalled or called at any time, when a suit is in the verge of death, they die, a tanker can jump out and fight as a suit do is essentially playing as two characters. Forget about hardeners and Speed boosts, tanks are OP. The funny thing is that we are willing to accept it, until they broke the camel's back.
Tankers, even though they are only one character, think they should be entitled to all these advantages. I'm actually OK with it, just don't insult our intelligence saying tanks are balanced or that this is even the goal.
Just waiting on Planetside 2.
Then I am sure me and some other folks will let CCP know what we think of IWINZ tanks.
Most Dust 514 chat channels now are ghost towns thanks to 1.7 tank spam....bah!!
Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!!
Jumps into escape pod!
Selected destination Planet PS4.
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2260
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 18:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:I'd say give the Forge Gun a faster recharge time.
Although, I think a MLT/STD LAV should be 1 shotted by a Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade. Not 3.
Pretty much nailed it on the head though. Good Job FG is fine i use it lolno wanting a grenade to do 3k+ dmg lol, we had that last build and it was BS on all vehicles so lolno, its a AV support weapon not a primary weapon I think if AV nades got a big multiplier VS LAVs and dropships then that would solve the issue of them being too OP vs tanks.
Against DS lol since when did superman play the game and lauch nades 600m upwards lol
Intelligence is OP
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Venerable Phage
Red Shirts Away Team
2
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Posted - 2014.01.21 18:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:I find tanks explode rather quickly if they are MLT and blindly wandering around an objective.
Proto suits die too if they do something stupid.
MLT tanks die even quicker if they stop on a ridge and pretend they are a sniper too. |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
3755
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 18:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
FG is fine i use it
lolno wanting a grenade to do 3k+ dmg lol, we had that last build and it was BS on all vehicles so lolno, its a AV support weapon not a primary weapon
I won't debate the Forge Gun lock times.
Anyways, it's an MLT/STD LAV against a PRO AV Weapon.. And they sill wouldn't do jack $#!t if you hardners are on.
If someone ambushes you with your hardeners down... Well then that's working as intended.
Next On To-Do List:
Particle Cannons
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1108
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Posted - 2014.01.21 18:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:I'd say give the Forge Gun a faster recharge time.
Although, I think a MLT/STD LAV should be 1 shotted by a Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade. Not 3.
Pretty much nailed it on the head though. Good Job FG is fine i use it lolno wanting a grenade to do 3k+ dmg lol, we had that last build and it was BS on all vehicles so lolno, its a AV support weapon not a primary weapon I think if AV nades got a big multiplier VS LAVs and dropships then that would solve the issue of them being too OP vs tanks.
Hell no!!
Then you get a dropship one shoted by an AV grenade??
Thats balance??
If anything tanks need to go SLOWER than an LAV.
Tank top speed needs to be 18m to 20m.
And why no infantry trenches for infantry to hide in??
The main problem is 16 V 16
Thats too small a player count to support vehicle spam.
Anywho the solution is the great PS4 migration.
Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!!
Jumps into escape pod!
Selected destination Planet PS4.
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
3755
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 18:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
Look, Cody is not asking for Derpships to be OHK'd by AV grenades.
He's just asking for them to do more damage to them than what they currently do.
Next On To-Do List:
Particle Cannons
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2057
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Posted - 2014.01.21 18:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:I'd say give the Forge Gun a faster recharge time.
Although, I think a MLT/STD LAV should be 1 shotted by a Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade. Not 3.
Pretty much nailed it on the head though. Good Job FG is fine i use it lolno wanting a grenade to do 3k+ dmg lol, we had that last build and it was BS on all vehicles so lolno, its a AV support weapon not a primary weapon I think if AV nades got a big multiplier VS LAVs and dropships then that would solve the issue of them being too OP vs tanks. Hell no!! Then you get a dropship one shoted by an AV grenade?? Thats balance?? If anything tanks need to go SLOWER than an LAV. Tank top speed needs to be 18m to 20m. And why no infantry trenches for infantry to hide in?? The main problem is 16 V 16 Thats too small a player count to support vehicle spam. Anywho the solution is the great PS4 migration. im not gonna argue with you about tank speed, they are too quick. But again, that's a tuning issue.
As for dropships, I don't want them to be one shotted, but if they get within 10 meters of someone chucking packed AV, it should hurt like heck.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2261
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 18:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Look, Cody is not asking for Derpships to be OHK'd by AV grenades.
He's just asking for them to do more damage to them than what they currently do.
DS are in a **** position
Nerf current mods for tanks, DS get whacked with the nerf bat it looks like even tho its only the mods changing DS will suffer more
Ask for AV buff against tanks, DS suffer again
Only way DS could gain the advantage is if mods requirements got reduced so they can fit stuff on and a PG/CPU buff espc for adv and proto DS, also having medium mods would help instead of light and heavy mods when frankly its more like a medium sized vehicle
Also to hit a DS with AV nades you need to throw it 200m up in the air at least and its not going to happen
Intelligence is OP
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1109
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Posted - 2014.01.21 18:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Look, Cody is not asking for Derpships to be OHK'd by AV grenades.
He's just asking for them to do more damage to them than what they currently do.
Ok.
Even the idea of a triple SP event makes me go bleh!! since its either run vehicles or get facerolled by tanks.
Not fun= not playing.
Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!!
Jumps into escape pod!
Selected destination Planet PS4.
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2057
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Posted - 2014.01.21 18:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:Look, Cody is not asking for Derpships to be OHK'd by AV grenades.
He's just asking for them to do more damage to them than what they currently do. DS are in a **** position Nerf current mods for tanks, DS get whacked with the nerf bat it looks like even tho its only the mods changing DS will suffer more Ask for AV buff against tanks, DS suffer again Only way DS could gain the advantage is if mods requirements got reduced so they can fit stuff on and a PG/CPU buff espc for adv and proto DS, also having medium mods would help instead of light and heavy mods when frankly its more like a medium sized vehicle Also to hit a DS with AV nades you need to throw it 200m up in the air at least and its not going to happen
Yeah, that's only gonna be fixed if they make individual modules for tanks, LAVs and dropships. Can mess around with one without potentially buffing/nerfing the other 2.
Dropships seem to be working fine. If I don't fly like a idiot(which I usually do) then I can survive with no problem...until I get too close to a RDV...380k down the terlet.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Beld Errmon
The Southern Legion
1248
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Posted - 2014.01.21 18:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
Yeah I think even real tankers are sick of the current tanks, you either spend the entire match running a railgun to control tank spam or find yourself forced into it when you get sick of seeing a toy tanker spamming the killfeed with militia blaster kills, double the cost and hit militia modules and tanks with the superWTF nerfbat of doom.
I still think the QQ cup runneth over regarding AV, when I pull out my protoswarms tanks tend to die, but i guess it takes a tanker to know how to kill a tanker, unless of course your good with a forgegun, most of the ones with good FGs seem to know their ****. |
Darken-Soul
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
50
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Posted - 2014.01.21 18:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
For every one laying the blame on MLT tanks you can get into basic tanks and mods for about 400k SP. You are going to see the same people spamming better tanks. That is why shifting blame is terrible for dust. You are just wasting CCPs time when they could be fixing the real issues
I am the real Darken
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1111
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Posted - 2014.01.21 18:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
Darken-Soul wrote:For every one laying the blame on MLT tanks you can get into basic tanks and mods for about 400k SP. You are going to see the same people spamming better tanks. That is why shifting blame is terrible for dust. You are just wasting CCPs time when they could be fixing the real issues
A broken weapon, mod or vehicle is not fun.
And either the problem gets fixed or expect a SMALLER dust 514 playerbase.
Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!!
Jumps into escape pod!
Selected destination Planet PS4.
|
Lv2spd2
Slow And Old
176
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 18:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:
Hell no!!
Then you get a dropship one shoted by an AV grenade??
Thats balance??
I dunno... at first it seems wrong for AV nades to one shot a DS, but then, I don't really think DS should be flying low and slow enough to have something thrown at them by hand actually hit them very often.
I know you ADS pilots want to be able to fly inside or under buildings, and be able to use your dropship as a hammer to whack troops, but those troops sure would like to at least be able to hide effectively too. |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2060
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 19:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
Darken-Soul wrote:For every one laying the blame on MLT tanks you can get into basic tanks and mods for about 400k SP. You are going to see the same people spamming better tanks. That is why shifting blame is terrible for dust. You are just wasting CCPs time when they could be fixing the real issues
MLT tanks aren't the problem, it's being able to call in a bunch of them with a low risk, high reward system. Most blue dots are going to try and work with each other just to blow a MLT, and even if they do, they only killed a 80k that will be back in less then 20 seconds.
MLT tanks are able to counter std tanks, but in the end the better tanker is going to win. Modules are going to tip the scales, but won't always decide the outcome of a tank vs tank battle.
When you add in AV that can counter the cheaper, ill equipped tanks, then suddenly running a 5 man tank squad or calling in MLT tank, after MLT tank doesn't seem so viable.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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CLONE117
planetary retaliation organisation
ACME Holding Conglomerate
593
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Posted - 2014.01.21 19:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
i called in the multiple tanks before in some matches back in 1.6..only to try and keep from getting endlessly redlined. i haven't been getting redlined massively since the update..
because tanks can actually prevent 1 side from completely redlining the other.
i dont think the tanks r boring. its more fun than dieing to an overpowered railrife or combat rifle.
and those guns basically have the same damage out put as the large blaster turret. |
Jason Pearson
4075
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Posted - 2014.01.21 19:52:00 -
[28] - Quote
My LAV costs near 100k a time, so forgive me if I'm not quite interested in a AV nade buff. I want to see more of these out, I was in a battle the other watching quite an epic fight, the enemy team were on the walls of the installation, and our team had like four LAVs circling firing at them, they were getting kills, swarms were going loose and got like two of them, but they'd pushed and and our Infantry had a chance to get up to the walls and push up the little ramp. I sat back forging **** and trying to keep people off our LAVs but it looked quite epic.
But let's one shot LAVs because who cares about the overall gameplay, I should be able to one shot it because it shouldn't even be in the game. A LAV should be an assault vehicle, when we get speeders (seen the artwork for it), by all means blow them up easily, but not the LAVs.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Quil Evrything
Triple Terrors
778
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Posted - 2014.01.21 19:59:00 -
[29] - Quote
A fresh perspective on tanks, when reframed in pre-tank DUST perspective.
When looking at just dropsuits, each one has different styles. Each one can be more or less effective against other types of suits.
If you encouter, for example, a realy good heavy defending an objectve... often times, your current suit is not effective against it. You (or a teammate) may need to switch into another suit. Or even team up with someone, to take it out.
That's all good, right?
Now look at tanks.
if you encouter a tank defending (or attacking) an objective... your current suit may not be effective against it.
You (or a teammate) may need to switch into another suit. Or even team up with someone, to take it out.
It so happens, though, that "another suit", may actually be a suit with 120mm armor around it that drops from the sky.
And it costs about the same as many people's dropsuits, too.
So.. why should that in itself be a problem?
It seems to me that what makes it more annoying, are the two factors of
1. One side can deny the other side the ability to deploy tanks, if they get enough railtanks on the field
2. Just plain too many tanks at once are allowed.
So lets have CCP fix *that*?
Outside of those two things, if you look at my comparison above, then tanks in and of themselves, arent really a problem. In Many ways, they're just another type of specialized dropsuit. The "super-heavy dropsuit", if you will.
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2060
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Posted - 2014.01.21 20:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:My LAV costs near 100k a time, so forgive me if I'm not quite interested in a AV nade buff. I want to see more of these out, I was in a battle the other watching quite an epic fight, the enemy team were on the walls of the installation, and our team had like four LAVs circling firing at them, they were getting kills, swarms were going loose and got like two of them, but they'd pushed and and our Infantry had a chance to get up to the walls and push up the little ramp. I sat back forging **** and trying to keep people off our LAVs but it looked quite epic.
But let's one shot LAVs because who cares about the overall gameplay, I should be able to one shot it because it shouldn't even be in the game. A LAV should be an assault vehicle, when we get speeders (seen the artwork for it), by all means blow them up easily, but not the LAVs.
I think Proto Packed AV should one shot stock LAVs, at least armour based ones. It's not they are easy to hit when they are circling you, let along trying to hit them 2-3 grenades.
It is the most expensive AV nade iirc and the hardest to fit onto a suit. Not to mention the high SP to get'em. If the LAV is tanked, fine, but if is stock or MLT and you actually manage to land a grenade on them, then they deserve to die.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
109
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Posted - 2014.01.21 20:15:00 -
[31] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:I'd say give the Forge Gun a faster recharge time.
Although, I think a MLT/STD LAV should be 1 shotted by a Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade. Not 3.
Pretty much nailed it on the head though. Good Job FG is fine i use it lolno wanting a grenade to do 3k+ dmg lol, we had that last build and it was BS on all vehicles so lolno, its a AV support weapon not a primary weapon
If every AV weapon is an AV support weapon, what is the primary AV weapon? An MLT tank with a railgun? Sorry, just noticing a fatal flaw with a lot of logic that i have seen from you. Please revise your argument, unless your current position is that an MLT tank with a railgun should be better AV than prototype Swarm Launchers or Forge Guns.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2261
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Posted - 2014.01.21 20:22:00 -
[32] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:I'd say give the Forge Gun a faster recharge time.
Although, I think a MLT/STD LAV should be 1 shotted by a Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade. Not 3.
Pretty much nailed it on the head though. Good Job FG is fine i use it lolno wanting a grenade to do 3k+ dmg lol, we had that last build and it was BS on all vehicles so lolno, its a AV support weapon not a primary weapon If every AV weapon is an AV support weapon, what is the primary AV weapon? An MLT tank with a railgun? Sorry, just noticing a fatal flaw with a lot of logic that i have seen from you. Please revise your argument, unless your current position is that an MLT tank with a railgun should be better AV than prototype Swarm Launchers or Forge Guns.
Primary AV weapons - FG/swarms/lolPLC
MLT Railgun vs FG - Railgun is at least 10times the size of a FG, requires a tank to use it, requires massive amounts of PG to equip and use hence the need for a tank hull, it cannot be fit on any dropsuit due to size and power output needed to use it, it can fire the shell farther and it hits harder because its bigger and requires vasts amount of PG to use it
Intelligence is OP
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Lightning Bolt2
Dark Aether Operations
365
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Posted - 2014.01.21 20:23:00 -
[33] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:And if that remains the case, MLT tanks shouldn't change at all. As it stands, they are the most effective way to deal with a std tank not to mention the cost is extremely reasonable.
That's not to say I don't think tanks need to be tuned slightly, but I honestly think std tanks are working as intended. Price is a little low for the power you get out of it, but that's not what we are talking about today.
I think the only way to stop the MLT tank spam and restore balance to the field is to buff AV slightly. We can talk about webs and other potential AV counters, but we something in the now.
first off, the title IS my definition of OP (needs another tank to kill a tank) but I honestly see a buff to AV to balance tanks
a indirect nerf to dropships and LAVs so I feel tanks need nerfed, OR add special anti-tank weapons (such as slow, low tracking high damage breach SL).
... BTW the tanks are ridiculously fast, I'M LITERALLY CALLING IN TANKS INSTEAD OF LAVS TO GO PLACES!!! |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1674
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 21:01:00 -
[34] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:I'd say give the Forge Gun a faster recharge time.
Although, I think a MLT/STD LAV should be 1 shotted by a Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade. Not 3.
Pretty much nailed it on the head though. Good Job FG is fine i use it lolno wanting a grenade to do 3k+ dmg lol, we had that last build and it was BS on all vehicles so lolno, its a AV support weapon not a primary weapon If every AV weapon is an AV support weapon, what is the primary AV weapon? An MLT tank with a railgun? Sorry, just noticing a fatal flaw with a lot of logic that i have seen from you. Please revise your argument, unless your current position is that an MLT tank with a railgun should be better AV than prototype Swarm Launchers or Forge Guns. Primary AV weapons - FG/swarms/lolPLC MLT Railgun vs FG - Railgun is at least 10times the size of a FG, requires a tank to use it, requires massive amounts of PG to equip and use hence the need for a tank hull, it cannot be fit on any dropsuit due to size and power output needed to use it, it can fire the shell farther and it hits harder because its bigger and requires vasts amount of PG to use it
Stop using insurmountable logic on them.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1674
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 21:02:00 -
[35] - Quote
Darken-Soul wrote:For every one laying the blame on MLT tanks you can get into basic tanks and mods for about 400k SP. You are going to see the same people spamming better tanks. That is why shifting blame is terrible for dust. You are just wasting CCPs time when they could be fixing the real issues
And what's that, making tanks so bad that nobody uses them?
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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HiddenBrother
Days of Ruin
43
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Posted - 2014.01.21 21:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:
Checks to see if Planetside 2 is going to be ready by April or May.
I find it funny that you're waiting on a game in which vehicles play such a massive role.
A tank in Planetside far outlives a Tank in Dust.
Ruin.
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
109
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 21:53:00 -
[37] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:I'd say give the Forge Gun a faster recharge time.
Although, I think a MLT/STD LAV should be 1 shotted by a Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade. Not 3.
Pretty much nailed it on the head though. Good Job FG is fine i use it lolno wanting a grenade to do 3k+ dmg lol, we had that last build and it was BS on all vehicles so lolno, its a AV support weapon not a primary weapon If every AV weapon is an AV support weapon, what is the primary AV weapon? An MLT tank with a railgun? Sorry, just noticing a fatal flaw with a lot of logic that i have seen from you. Please revise your argument, unless your current position is that an MLT tank with a railgun should be better AV than prototype Swarm Launchers or Forge Guns. Primary AV weapons - FG/swarms/lolPLC MLT Railgun vs FG - Railgun is at least 10times the size of a FG, requires a tank to use it, requires massive amounts of PG to equip and use hence the need for a tank hull, it cannot be fit on any dropsuit due to size and power output needed to use it, it can fire the shell farther and it hits harder because its bigger and requires vasts amount of PG to use it
And the plasma cannon requires more CPU, therefore it should do twice the damage of the railgun, and have a 9 shot clip. Also it is larger than the swarm launcher, and put on the shoulder to fire, which means that it has more kick than the forge gun, and thus should have like 5 times the damage. Also, they require a drop suit to put them on, so it makes sense that they should do more damage than any other AV weapon in the game.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
109
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 21:56:00 -
[38] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:I'd say give the Forge Gun a faster recharge time.
Although, I think a MLT/STD LAV should be 1 shotted by a Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade. Not 3.
Pretty much nailed it on the head though. Good Job FG is fine i use it lolno wanting a grenade to do 3k+ dmg lol, we had that last build and it was BS on all vehicles so lolno, its a AV support weapon not a primary weapon If every AV weapon is an AV support weapon, what is the primary AV weapon? An MLT tank with a railgun? Sorry, just noticing a fatal flaw with a lot of logic that i have seen from you. Please revise your argument, unless your current position is that an MLT tank with a railgun should be better AV than prototype Swarm Launchers or Forge Guns. Primary AV weapons - FG/swarms/lolPLC MLT Railgun vs FG - Railgun is at least 10times the size of a FG, requires a tank to use it, requires massive amounts of PG to equip and use hence the need for a tank hull, it cannot be fit on any dropsuit due to size and power output needed to use it, it can fire the shell farther and it hits harder because its bigger and requires vasts amount of PG to use it Stop using insurmountable logic on them.
Read my previous post to understand that this insurmountable logic is actually flawed and structurally unstable in and of itself.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Aizen Intiki
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
725
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 21:59:00 -
[39] - Quote
If Tech 1 HAV's are (even though they have some issues) almost perfect, wouldn't it be counter productive to nerf them all by buffing AV?
"Hello, world!" lol, sounds like something a whore lover would say
Alt of the great Godin
I like chocolate ^___^
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
109
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 22:02:00 -
[40] - Quote
Aizen Intiki wrote:If Tech 1 HAV's are (even though they have some issues) almost perfect, wouldn't it be counter productive to nerf them all by buffing AV?
I think what the OP is trying to say is that HAV's are currently well balanced in killing potential and armor versus infantry and other tanks, however, AV must become a threat once more to fully balance out the vehicle infantry relation.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Lorhak Gannarsein
1265
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Posted - 2014.01.21 22:24:00 -
[41] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Aizen Intiki wrote:If Tech 1 HAV's are (even though they have some issues) almost perfect, wouldn't it be counter productive to nerf them all by buffing AV? I think what the OP is trying to say is that HAV's are currently well balanced in killing potential and armor versus infantry and other tanks, however, AV must become a threat once more to fully balance out the vehicle infantry relation.
Agreed.
Swarms could use a buff. PLC needs a buff, maybe a multiplier towards tanks? That way it doesn't insta-gib tanked heavies?
F*ck AV nades. F*ck them forever.
Tiny fitting costs + highest DPS of all AV weapons + nothing sacrificed for the fitting? Hell no.
And the reason a railgun is more dangerous to vehicles than AV? It's primary AV in the way that forges are, but is on a less versatile frame, and is somewhat more obvious. That it has sniper range and effectiveness seems somewhat odd... We'd need to see CCP's ideas on laser etc vehicle mounted AV to see the balance.
I know there's a lot of complaints that rails are more effective than blasters at CQC AV, and this is true, but seeing actual 'intended' balance would have to wait until we have something directly comparable. Either way, missiles are in desperate need of a (indirect) buff to AI (so not direct damage, but splash etc).
Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters.
Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
109
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Posted - 2014.01.21 22:33:00 -
[42] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Aizen Intiki wrote:If Tech 1 HAV's are (even though they have some issues) almost perfect, wouldn't it be counter productive to nerf them all by buffing AV? I think what the OP is trying to say is that HAV's are currently well balanced in killing potential and armor versus infantry and other tanks, however, AV must become a threat once more to fully balance out the vehicle infantry relation. Agreed. Swarms could use a buff. PLC needs a buff, maybe a multiplier towards tanks? That way it doesn't insta-gib tanked heavies? F*ck AV nades. F*ck them forever. Tiny fitting costs + highest DPS of all AV weapons + nothing sacrificed for the fitting? Hell no. And the reason a railgun is more dangerous to vehicles than AV? It's primary AV in the way that forges are, but is on a less versatile frame, and is somewhat more obvious. That it has sniper range and effectiveness seems somewhat odd... We'd need to see CCP's ideas on laser etc vehicle mounted AV to see the balance. I know there's a lot of complaints that rails are more effective than blasters at CQC AV, and this is true, but seeing actual 'intended' balance would have to wait until we have something directly comparable. Either way, missiles are in desperate need of a (indirect) buff to AI (so not direct damage, but splash etc).
I personally think that nades need a buff for these reasons:
1. It requires a lot of skill to get in close enough to use them, and with current tank speed, managing to hit with all three is very very difficult, and resupplying at a hive and continuing to throw is impossible, unless the tank is stuck
2. There are only three available at the very most at one time, and if a tanker allows himself to be hit by all three, AS WELL as, at most, a whole clip of swarm launcher shots, it should kill anything but double or triple hardened shield tanks. That is all.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
111
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Posted - 2014.01.21 22:44:00 -
[43] - Quote
Also, i would really like a response from tankehiro kashuken and spkr4thedead
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Quil Evrything
Triple Terrors
778
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 22:51:00 -
[44] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:
And the plasma cannon requires more CPU, therefore it should do twice the damage of the railgun, and have a 9 shot clip. Also it is larger than the swarm launcher, and put on the shoulder to fire, which means that it has more kick than the forge gun, and thus should have like 5 times the damage. Also, they require a drop suit to put them on, so it makes sense that they should do more damage than any other AV weapon in the game.
EDIT: Just in case it was incomprehensible, this was a semi-satyrical post attempting to apply your logical explanation of why certain weapons must be more powerful by utilizing your exact points, but with a different weapon, the plasma cannon. Please redefine your argument, as it has been invalidated, or acknowledge that you concur with me
Ironically, half of what you wrote, actually makes sense as-is.
PLC has high cpu, slow fire, and a 1-round clip.
It SHOULD do way more damage than it does now, particularly against vehicles.
Especialy since, unlike forge guns, it has limited range and bullet drop, making it impossible to use as a long range AV weapon, on top of everything else. You can almost forget about trying to hit a dropship with it.
(yes, I know, I've seen the youtube videos of people doing that. however, for most mortal PLC users, going up against non-moronic dropship pilots, it aint happening) |
Darken-Soul
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
62
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Posted - 2014.01.21 22:52:00 -
[45] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Also, i would really like a response from tankehiro kashuken and spkr4thedead
no you wouldn't. they are both deluded
I am the real Darken
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Faquira Bleuetta
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
197
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 22:58:00 -
[46] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:And if that remains the case, MLT tanks shouldn't change at all. As it stands, they are the most effective way to deal with a std tank not to mention the cost is extremely reasonable.
That's not to say I don't think tanks need to be tuned slightly, but I honestly think std tanks are working as intended. Price is a little low for the power you get out of it, but that's not what we are talking about today.
I think the only way to stop the MLT tank spam and restore balance to the field is to buff AV slightly. We can talk about webs and other potential AV counters, but we something in the now.
As it stands, I think they got the FG just right, I also think the range nerf for swarms and the dmg nerf for AV nades were spot on.
However, the dmg and mag nerf made the swarm launcher useless except when at Proto, and even then the results are often underwhelming.
Now I don't think we should get back full dmg or 5 rounds before reload, but I think 4 in the mag and a 30-50 dmg buff would solve a lot of the problem we have on the battlefield and stop MLT tank spam. Also, if it possible, give AV nades bonus vs LAVs and dropships ONLY. If a LAV stops long enough it should be 3 shotted by packed AV. Same goes for dropships that get too close.
That's all I gotz.
amarr scout suck
QQ king kobrah QQ
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2264
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Posted - 2014.01.21 23:00:00 -
[47] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:I'd say give the Forge Gun a faster recharge time.
Although, I think a MLT/STD LAV should be 1 shotted by a Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade. Not 3.
Pretty much nailed it on the head though. Good Job FG is fine i use it lolno wanting a grenade to do 3k+ dmg lol, we had that last build and it was BS on all vehicles so lolno, its a AV support weapon not a primary weapon If every AV weapon is an AV support weapon, what is the primary AV weapon? An MLT tank with a railgun? Sorry, just noticing a fatal flaw with a lot of logic that i have seen from you. Please revise your argument, unless your current position is that an MLT tank with a railgun should be better AV than prototype Swarm Launchers or Forge Guns. Primary AV weapons - FG/swarms/lolPLC MLT Railgun vs FG - Railgun is at least 10times the size of a FG, requires a tank to use it, requires massive amounts of PG to equip and use hence the need for a tank hull, it cannot be fit on any dropsuit due to size and power output needed to use it, it can fire the shell farther and it hits harder because its bigger and requires vasts amount of PG to use it And the plasma cannon requires more CPU, therefore it should do twice the damage of the railgun, and have a 9 shot clip. Also it is larger than the swarm launcher, and put on the shoulder to fire, which means that it has more kick than the forge gun, and thus should have like 5 times the damage. Also, they require a drop suit to put them on, so it makes sense that they should do more damage than any other AV weapon in the game. EDIT: Just in case it was incomprehensible, this was a semi-satyrical post attempting to apply your logical explanation of why certain weapons must be more powerful by utilizing your exact points, but with a different weapon, the plasma cannon. Please redefine your argument, as it has been invalidated, or acknowledge that you concur with me
Its not been invalidated at all
The CPU needed is pathetic, a tank could easily fit it as a small turret
Also the PLC fires a ball of plasma, not a projectile at high speed, its more like an RPG of sorts which doesnt need a powerful dropsuit to operate it because the suit and weapon are not joined together, essentially you could improve the ammunition to make it more powerful but as a consequence recoil could be alot stronger and also it may hinder movement and reload speeds like the Breach FG does with limited movement due to the high damage output and long spool up time
The railgun is a electrically powered electromagnetic projectile launcher in which a pair of parallel conducting rails, along which a sliding armature is accelerated by the electromagnetic effects of a current that flows down one rail, into the armature and then back along the other rail - This alone requires vasts amounts of PG but also accelerates the projectile alot quicker than the plasma cannon does and with it increases the damage output and distance it can travel, increase the size of the railgun it increases the amount of PG needed and also increases the damage and range output hence why the FG has half the range and reduced damage and requires a heavy suit to use
Would you like to know more?
Intelligence is OP
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
111
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 23:37:00 -
[48] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
Its not been invalidated at all
The CPU needed is pathetic, a tank could easily fit it as a small turret
Also the PLC fires a ball of plasma, not a projectile at high speed, its more like an RPG of sorts which doesnt need a powerful dropsuit to operate it because the suit and weapon are not joined together, essentially you could improve the ammunition to make it more powerful but as a consequence recoil could be alot stronger and also it may hinder movement and reload speeds like the Breach FG does with limited movement due to the high damage output and long spool up time
The railgun is a electrically powered electromagnetic projectile launcher in which a pair of parallel conducting rails, along which a sliding armature is accelerated by the electromagnetic effects of a current that flows down one rail, into the armature and then back along the other rail - This alone requires vasts amounts of PG but also accelerates the projectile alot quicker than the plasma cannon does and with it increases the damage output and distance it can travel, increase the size of the railgun it increases the amount of PG needed and also increases the damage and range output hence why the FG has half the range and reduced damage and requires a heavy suit to use
Would you like to know more?
I would simply like a summary of your main points so that i may continue to refute them.
So far, the information that I have gleaned from your post about why a railgun should be exponentially better than any other anti vehicle weapon in the game isGǪ
1. Plasma Cannon CPU usage is very low, allowing it to be fitted as a small turret (please report back to me the CPU usage of the prototype non-specialist cannon, as I am certain that if you attempted to fit one or more of these on a tank as well as modules, you would be sorely disappointed)
2.The plasma fired from a plasma cannon does not move as fast as the railgun shell, so because of this, the plasma cannon shot, which has much more kinetic molecular energy, and is compressed inside of a magnetic field, causing increased pressure should be less efficient, where in reality, a railgun shot is useful for destroying tanks because it moves so fast that it pierces the tank shell and destroys the interior electronic and mechanical engineering. A mass of plasma that is being compressed should be incredibly potent due to its potential and kinetic-molecular energy, and would therefore completely obliterate any entity, if the mass/heat/pressure of the plasma were high enough. I know what I am talking about in this field, so please don't try to bluster your way through.
3. The railgun is a railgun, made with what is known in this game as rail technology, and has less than a second of charge time, so it should be better than an anti vehicle weapon with a 4+ second charge time that uses rail technology.
4.Self created conceptions about the game>Actual weapon descriptions and real life physics>AV/ tank balance
Please correct me if i misconceived any of these points, or if you have additional points to offer.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
113
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 23:53:00 -
[49] - Quote
Please tankihiro post a response. Im enjoying this a lot right now. I personally don't care about tanks, and completely stopped running AV completely a little into 1.7, and only run scouts now. i think that something saying that you were wrong and the #1 gav was right is not entirely amiss, n'est-ce pas?
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Rusty Shallows
859
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 00:02:00 -
[50] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:I'd say give the Forge Gun a faster recharge time.
Although, I think a MLT/STD LAV should be 1 shotted by a Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade. Not 3.
Pretty much nailed it on the head though. Good Job FG is fine i use it lolno wanting a grenade to do 3k+ dmg lol, we had that last build and it was BS on all vehicles so lolno, its a AV support weapon not a primary weapon If every AV weapon is an AV support weapon, what is the primary AV weapon? An MLT tank with a railgun? Sorry, just noticing a fatal flaw with a lot of logic that i have seen from you. Please revise your argument, unless your current position is that an MLT tank with a railgun should be better AV than prototype Swarm Launchers or Forge Guns. Primary AV weapons - FG/swarms/lolPLC MLT Railgun vs FG - Railgun is at least 10times the size of a FG, requires a tank to use it, requires massive amounts of PG to equip and use hence the need for a tank hull, it cannot be fit on any dropsuit due to size and power output needed to use it, it can fire the shell farther and it hits harder because its bigger and requires vasts amount of PG to use it
If the Large Rails ever get nerfed downs to FGs then you can claim they are fine. Until then you're just defending your broken game mode.
Here, have some candy and a Like. :-)
Forums > Game
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
116
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Posted - 2014.01.22 01:46:00 -
[51] - Quote
Rusty Shallows wrote:
If the Large Rails ever get nerfed downs to FGs then you can claim they are fine. Until then you're just defending your broken game mode.
Do you think he will even respond to this thread after I just destroyed his "logic" twice?
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1112
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Posted - 2014.01.22 02:15:00 -
[52] - Quote
HiddenBrother wrote:Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:
Checks to see if Planetside 2 is going to be ready by April or May.
I find it funny that you're waiting on a game in which vehicles play such a massive role. A tank in Planetside far outlives a Tank in Dust.
32 v 32 or even better 64 v 64 has the player numbers to support vehicles
I am waiting on a game that supports Player Studio.
why?
8,000 reasons all saying United States of America dollars.
and thats per game asset once past QA.
Look up John Smedly.
real cash over play money wins out.
Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!!
Jumps into escape pod!
Selected destination Planet PS4.
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
119
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Posted - 2014.01.22 02:29:00 -
[53] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:HiddenBrother wrote:Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:
Checks to see if Planetside 2 is going to be ready by April or May.
I find it funny that you're waiting on a game in which vehicles play such a massive role. A tank in Planetside far outlives a Tank in Dust. 32 v 32 or even better 64 v 64 has the player numbers to support vehicles I am waiting on a game that supports Player Studio. why? 8,000 reasons all saying United States of America dollars. and thats per game asset once past QA. Look up John Smedly. real cash over play money wins out.
Id like there to be options for game sizes for matchmaking as well, once the existing player base becomes larger, this will be especially useful. However, with the 40,000 average, i think that the sizes should be 6 v 6 (squad only, with maps about 1/3-1/2 their current size) 16 v 16 (current), 32 v 32 (would require larger maps, about 1,000-1,500 meters in diameter), and 64 v 64 (would require huge maps of about a 2,000-3,000 meter diameter.)
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Ripcord19981
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
Legacy Rising
356
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Posted - 2014.01.22 02:41:00 -
[54] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:Cody Sietz wrote: hmmm time to do DAMAGE CONTROL so no one does anything to my IWINZ tank.
That's all I gotz. Pauses Dragons Dogma. Looks at tank scrubs running triple hardners Hey Cody nothing personal and with all due respect but *_*_*_* OFF!! Tanks are in a good spot? Are you mental? Being FORCED to do AV is a good time??? Hell no!! We told CCP militia vehicle spam was BAD!! then CCP fixed it and now they REPEATED the same mistake!! Checks to see if Planetside 2 is going to be ready by April or May. Continues playing Dragons Dogma.
Buys new computer for warframe and planetside................... goes back to dust
I can only please one person per day. Today is not ur day, tomorrow doesn't look too bright either.
Turkey sammich>taco
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
120
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Posted - 2014.01.22 03:07:00 -
[55] - Quote
Come on Atiim I know you're out thereGǪwhat do you have ego say?
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
3775
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Posted - 2014.01.22 03:13:00 -
[56] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Rusty Shallows wrote:If the Large Rails ever get nerfed downs to FGs then you can claim they are fine. Until then you're just defending your broken game mode. Do you think he will even respond to this thread after I just destroyed his "logic" twice?
Sadly, this is common practice by most tankers.
For example, have you noticed that every time a tanker says that they are killing tanks with Swarms easily; somebody always challenges them? And then they either completely disappear from the thread or act as if the post didn't exist?
If you manage to present a counter-argument, then tankers will most likely just ignore you or leave the thread because they are incapable of comprehending the fact that they're incorrect.
Next On To-Do List:
Particle Cannons
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
3775
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Posted - 2014.01.22 03:15:00 -
[57] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Come on Atiim I know you're out thereGǪwhat do you have ego say?
I'd go form a counter-argument against Tankahiro, but you pretty much covered everything.
Though I would personally pay 5mil ISK to see his response.
Next On To-Do List:
Particle Cannons
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
123
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Posted - 2014.01.22 03:24:00 -
[58] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Come on Atiim I know you're out thereGǪwhat do you have ego say? I'd go form a counter-argument against Tankahiro, but you pretty much covered everything. Though I would personally pay 5mil ISK to see his response.
As would I. I really want a third shot at him right now. Kinda hoping spkr4thedead posts something as well, though i'm beginning to think that they are the same person.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
3780
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 03:33:00 -
[59] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:As would I. I really want a third shot at him right now. Kinda hoping spkr4thedead posts something as well, though i'm beginning to think that they are the same person.
I've seen both of them camping on towers with Forge Guns in 1.5 (ironically the very same thing they spent all of Uprising moaning about); so I can confirm that they are both two different people.
Apparently great minds aren't the only ones that think alike.
Next On To-Do List:
Particle Cannons
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
124
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Posted - 2014.01.22 03:36:00 -
[60] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:As would I. I really want a third shot at him right now. Kinda hoping spkr4thedead posts something as well, though i'm beginning to think that they are the same person. I've seen both of them camping on towers with Forge Guns in 1.5 (ironically the very same thing they spent all of Uprising moaning about); so I can confirm that they are both two different people. Apparently great minds aren't the only ones that think alike.
Im kind of harping all of this smack talk will enrage one of them enough to post on this thread again 
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Maniak Madness
Death Firm.
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
1
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Posted - 2014.01.22 03:40:00 -
[61] - Quote
The Issue isnt the tanks or the tank mechanics, Ill try to sum it up in the most simple way I can.
CCP rushed the vehicle release because everyone was QQing about the repeated push back dates, so all they were able to do was release Militia and Standard tanks. Now to compensate for this they nerfed all forms of AV so that Tanks stood a chance. So now Militia tanks and Standard tanks are being flooded because they are cheap, and powerfull. However once Advanced and Proto tanks are released CCP will buff AV to deal with the higher quality of Tanks available. Once that happens you'll find that cheaper tanks will pop easily to the buffed AV, However Advanced and Proto Tanks will remain roughly the same difficultly to pop as it is now except they will be:
A: Expensive
B: Require a substantial amount of SP to be used
This will stop tank spam as not everyone will have the SP and/or afford these higher quality Tanks.
To sum it up this problem will only be solved by releasing higher tier tanks. |
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
124
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Posted - 2014.01.22 03:43:00 -
[62] - Quote
Maniak Madness wrote:The Issue isnt the tanks or the tank mechanics, Ill try to sum it up in the most simple way I can.
CCP rushed the vehicle release because everyone was QQing about the repeated push back dates, so all they were able to do was release Militia and Standard tanks. Now to compensate for this they nerfed all forms of AV so that Tanks stood a chance. So now Militia tanks and Standard tanks are being flooded because they are cheap, and powerfull. However once Advanced and Proto tanks are released CCP will buff AV to deal with the higher quality of Tanks available. Once that happens you'll find that cheaper tanks will pop easily to the buffed AV, However Advanced and Proto Tanks will remain roughly the same difficultly to pop as it is now except they will be:
A: Expensive
B: Require a substantial amount of SP to be used
This will stop tank spam as not everyone will have the SP and/or afford these higher quality Tanks.
To sum it up this problem will only be solved by releasing higher tier tanks.
The current STD tanks are stronger than any 1.6 tanks however (unless using glitched reppers), and AV was nerved to account for that.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Charlotte O'Dell
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
1720
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Posted - 2014.01.22 04:29:00 -
[63] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:I think one problem is that we allowed tankers to convince us that tanks being OP is the way it should be. They count as one character, one entity, on the field yet if we take a militia tank, no modules and compare it to drop suits what do we see? A tank can one shot anybody, a forge gun takes 3 or 4 shots to kill a tank. Sprint speed is around 7 meters a second, tank speed is 5 times that, drop suits can be killed by small arms, tanks are immune to small arms, if a suit jumps on a tank it is funny, if a tank runs over a suit it is dead, suits can only change suits at supply depots, tanks can be recalled or called at any time, when a suit is in the verge of death, they die, a tanker can jump out and fight as a suit do is essentially playing as two characters. Forget about hardeners and Speed boosts, tanks are OP. The funny thing is that we are willing to accept it, until they broke the camel's back.
Tankers, even though they are only one character, think they should be entitled to all these advantages. I'm actually OK with it, just don't insult our intelligence saying tanks are balanced or that this is even the goal.
well, if they cost an ungodly amount of isk and SP, then itd be balanced but they dont and that's my problem with most of it...well, part of it. theyre jacked up still. wont lie.
Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
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Darken-Soul
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
83
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Posted - 2014.01.22 05:28:00 -
[64] - Quote
Maniak Madness wrote:The Issue isnt the tanks or the tank mechanics, Ill try to sum it up in the most simple way I can.
CCP rushed the vehicle release because everyone was QQing about the repeated push back dates, so all they were able to do was release Militia and Standard tanks. Now to compensate for this they nerfed all forms of AV so that Tanks stood a chance. So now Militia tanks and Standard tanks are being flooded because they are cheap, and powerfull. However once Advanced and Proto tanks are released CCP will buff AV to deal with the higher quality of Tanks available. Once that happens you'll find that cheaper tanks will pop easily to the buffed AV, However Advanced and Proto Tanks will remain roughly the same difficultly to pop as it is now except they will be:
A: Expensive
B: Require a substantial amount of SP to be used
This will stop tank spam as not everyone will have the SP and/or afford these higher quality Tanks.
To sum it up this problem will only be solved by releasing higher tier tanks.
maybe a long time down the road. Last time tanks were this bad they got a Nerf hammer for the better part of a year.
I am the real Darken
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2268
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Posted - 2014.01.22 16:21:00 -
[65] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
Its not been invalidated at all
The CPU needed is pathetic, a tank could easily fit it as a small turret
Also the PLC fires a ball of plasma, not a projectile at high speed, its more like an RPG of sorts which doesnt need a powerful dropsuit to operate it because the suit and weapon are not joined together, essentially you could improve the ammunition to make it more powerful but as a consequence recoil could be alot stronger and also it may hinder movement and reload speeds like the Breach FG does with limited movement due to the high damage output and long spool up time
The railgun is a electrically powered electromagnetic projectile launcher in which a pair of parallel conducting rails, along which a sliding armature is accelerated by the electromagnetic effects of a current that flows down one rail, into the armature and then back along the other rail - This alone requires vasts amounts of PG but also accelerates the projectile alot quicker than the plasma cannon does and with it increases the damage output and distance it can travel, increase the size of the railgun it increases the amount of PG needed and also increases the damage and range output hence why the FG has half the range and reduced damage and requires a heavy suit to use
Would you like to know more?
I would simply like a summary of your main points so that i may continue to refute them. So far, the information that I have gleaned from your post about why a railgun should be exponentially better than any other anti vehicle weapon in the game isGǪ 1. Plasma Cannon CPU usage is very low, allowing it to be fitted as a small turret (please report back to me the CPU usage of the prototype non-specialist cannon, as I am certain that if you attempted to fit one or more of these on a tank as well as modules, you would be sorely disappointed) 2.The plasma fired from a plasma cannon does not move as fast as the railgun shell, so because of this, the plasma cannon shot, which has much more kinetic molecular energy, and is compressed inside of a magnetic field, causing increased pressure should be less efficient, where in reality, a railgun shot is useful for destroying tanks because it moves so fast that it pierces the tank shell and destroys the interior electronic and mechanical engineering. A mass of plasma that is being compressed should be incredibly potent due to its potential and kinetic-molecular energy, and would therefore completely obliterate any entity within the blast's proximity, if the mass/heat/pressure of the plasma were high enough. I know what I am talking about in this field, so please don't try to bluster your way through. 3. The railgun is a railgun, made with what is known in this game as rail technology, and has less than a second of charge time, so it should be better than an anti vehicle weapon with a 4+ second charge time that uses rail technology. 4.Self created conceptions about the game>Actual weapon descriptions and real life physics>AV/ tank balance Please correct me if i misconceived any of these points, or if you have additional points to offer.
PLC fits on a gunlogi fine
The plasma round tho still has to be safe and stable for infantry to carry and use, cant have it melting through the launcher and the suit
Railgun is a railgun - Its a 80gj railgun tbh, small turrets are 20gj and FG could be around 40-60gj but with massive drawbacks
4. lol your doing the same thing
Intelligence is OP
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
132
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Posted - 2014.01.22 20:00:00 -
[66] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
PLC fits on a gunlogi fine
The plasma round tho still has to be safe and stable for infantry to carry and use, cant have it melting through the launcher and the suit
Railgun is a railgun - Its a 80gj railgun tbh, small turrets are 20gj and FG could be around 40-60gj but with massive drawbacks
4. lol your doing the same thing
Yes it may fit on a gunlogi, but try fitting modules as well (such as triple complex damage mods), and you may find a problem will arise that doesn't when trying to fit a railgun.
The railgun has to be safe for the tank, and with its current power, the equal and opposite force must be applied, so by this logic that real life physics should apply to a video game, which it doesn't in this video game, by firing a railgun that produces more power than a compressed mass of plasma, the force should theoretically destroy the tank where the turret was mounted. In real life, rail guns can only be fired for about 3 shots on average or so (from my most recent knowledge) before they wear out, therefore, the tank should take damage from shooting the railgun, and after a few shots should be unable to fire any longer. Please discontinue this physics argument, as it is inapplicable to a video game that does not follow real life physics.
By this logic, that the small turrets have no drawbacks but the forge gun at 40gj does, the large railgun should have twice the charge time of the forge gun, and the small turrets one half the charge time.
No actually Im not. Im attempting to stoop to your level in order to enlighten you about why you are wrong in order for both of us to come to a common consensus.
That is all. Please respond, I am enjoying this.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
210
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Posted - 2014.01.23 00:49:00 -
[67] - Quote
Wow just off of these posts i think i got 74 likes. Thanks forum community!
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Our Deepest Regret
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
491
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Posted - 2014.01.23 01:47:00 -
[68] - Quote
Personally, I think if you limited the ability to summon vehicles to players with a 1,000,000 SP minimum investment, it would solve a lot of the militia spam that's strangled the fun out of pub games. |
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
214
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Posted - 2014.01.23 01:49:00 -
[69] - Quote
Our Deepest Regret wrote:Personally, I think if you limited the ability to summon vehicles to players with a 1,000,000 SP minimum investment, it would solve a lot of the militia spam that's strangled the fun out of pub games.
The problem with that is that new players can't skill into tanks, leading it to be taken up by only the elite veterans, which is something CCP should stay away from. I think weakening all MLT and STD variants even more than ADV and PRO types would lead to equality
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Our Deepest Regret
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
491
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Posted - 2014.01.23 01:50:00 -
[70] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Our Deepest Regret wrote:Personally, I think if you limited the ability to summon vehicles to players with a 1,000,000 SP minimum investment, it would solve a lot of the militia spam that's strangled the fun out of pub games. The problem with that is that new players can't skill into tanks, leading it to be taken up by only the elite veterans, which is something CCP should stay away from. I think weakening all MLT and STD variants even more than ADV and PRO types would lead to equality
Good point. |
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
214
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Posted - 2014.01.23 01:56:00 -
[71] - Quote
Our Deepest Regret wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Our Deepest Regret wrote:Personally, I think if you limited the ability to summon vehicles to players with a 1,000,000 SP minimum investment, it would solve a lot of the militia spam that's strangled the fun out of pub games. The problem with that is that new players can't skill into tanks, leading it to be taken up by only the elite veterans, which is something CCP should stay away from. I think weakening all MLT and STD variants even more than ADV and PRO types would lead to equality Good point.
The hardeners and damage mods need to be nerfed, but all other modules are fine. Railguns need a slight nerf to rotation speed, damage, and pre-shot charge time, as well as range. Blasters need bullet speed instead of instantly hitting the target when they are fired, as well as a slight damage decrease at MLT and STD level. They also need a range reduction so that they can't snipe infantry and 2 shot a juking scout from 175 meters away by spraying and praying. Missiles need to work like shotguns for reloading, and all tank speed needs a 50% nerf (at least).
In addition to this, AV needs to be buffed so that it is able to kill tanks.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
3829
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Posted - 2014.01.23 01:59:00 -
[72] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Wow just off of these posts i think i got 74 likes. Thanks forum community!
You don't seem to have enough.
So here's another 
Next On To-Do List:
Particle Cannons
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
214
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Posted - 2014.01.23 01:59:00 -
[73] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Wow just off of these posts i think i got 74 likes. Thanks forum community! You don't seem to have enough. So here's another
Thanks Atiim
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
214
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Posted - 2014.01.23 02:06:00 -
[74] - Quote
You know what i would like even more than a lot of likes is for Tankihiro to come back on this page to defend his "insurmountable logic", or at least give me the public apology and acknowledge that he agrees with me, and denounces all of his prior misinformed opinions.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
339
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Posted - 2014.01.30 21:42:00 -
[75] - Quote
bump for Tankahiro
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Help Shields
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