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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2053
   |
Posted - 2014.01.21 17:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
And if that remains the case, MLT tanks shouldn't change at all. As it stands, they are the most effective way to deal with a std tank not to mention the cost is extremely reasonable.
That's not to say I don't think tanks need to be tuned slightly, but I honestly think std tanks are working as intended. Price is a little low for the power you get out of it, but that's not what we are talking about today.
I think the only way to stop the MLT tank spam and restore balance to the field is to buff AV slightly. We can talk about webs and other potential AV counters, but we something in the now.
As it stands, I think they got the FG just right, I also think the range nerf for swarms and the dmg nerf for AV nades were spot on.
However, the dmg and mag nerf made the swarm launcher useless except when at Proto, and even then the results are often underwhelming.
Now I don't think we should get back full dmg or 5 rounds before reload, but I think 4 in the mag and a 30-50 dmg buff would solve a lot of the problem we have on the battlefield and stop MLT tank spam. Also, if it possible, give AV nades bonus vs LAVs and dropships ONLY. If a LAV stops long enough it should be 3 shotted by packed AV. Same goes for dropships that get too close.
That's all I gotz.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
491
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Posted - 2014.01.21 17:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
I find tanks explode rather quickly if they are MLT and blindly wandering around an objective.
If you can read this, it means you are reading.
Unless you are skimming
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Nothing Certain
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2014.01.21 17:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
I think one problem is that we allowed tankers to convince us that tanks being OP is the way it should be. They count as one character, one entity, on the field yet if we take a militia tank, no modules and compare it to drop suits what do we see? A tank can one shot anybody, a forge gun takes 3 or 4 shots to kill a tank. Sprint speed is around 7 meters a second, tank speed is 5 times that, drop suits can be killed by small arms, tanks are immune to small arms, if a suit jumps on a tank it is funny, if a tank runs over a suit it is dead, suits can only change suits at supply depots, tanks can be recalled or called at any time, when a suit is in the verge of death, they die, a tanker can jump out and fight as a suit do is essentially playing as two characters. Forget about hardeners and Speed boosts, tanks are OP. The funny thing is that we are willing to accept it, until they broke the camel's back.
Tankers, even though they are only one character, think they should be entitled to all these advantages. I'm actually OK with it, just don't insult our intelligence saying tanks are balanced or that this is even the goal. |
Onesimus Tarsus
891
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Posted - 2014.01.21 17:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tanks are PvE. The dumbest AI runs them and you just outsmart it.
I don't date magnets, but it's difficult to deny the attraction.
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2056
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 17:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:I think one problem is that we allowed tankers to convince us that tanks being OP is the way it should be. They count as one character, one entity, on the field yet if we take a militia tank, no modules and compare it to drop suits what do we see? A tank can one shot anybody, a forge gun takes 3 or 4 shots to kill a tank. Sprint speed is around 7 meters a second, tank speed is 5 times that, drop suits can be killed by small arms, tanks are immune to small arms, if a suit jumps on a tank it is funny, if a tank runs over a suit it is dead, suits can only change suits at supply depots, tanks can be recalled or called at any time, when a suit is in the verge of death, they die, a tanker can jump out and fight as a suit do is essentially playing as two characters. Forget about hardeners and Speed boosts, tanks are OP. The funny thing is that we are willing to accept it, until they broke the camel's back.
Tankers, even though they are only one character, think they should be entitled to all these advantages. I'm actually OK with it, just don't insult our intelligence saying tanks are balanced or that this is even the goal.
Tanks should be harder to take down, just not impossible. And I honestly think a lot of current tanks and their prices will change in the future, and this is more of a test run. I'm just not sure why they decided to test nerfing and AV and buffing tanks at the same time. Doing one, then the other would have made more sense IMO.
I've been using AV for a good while now, my 2nd Proto weapon was the swarm launcher back in beta. I really don't hate tanks or love tanks, I'd just like everything to be balanced.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
3753
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Posted - 2014.01.21 17:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'd say give the Forge Gun a faster recharge time.
Although, I think a MLT/STD LAV should be 1 shotted by a Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade. Not 3.
Pretty much nailed it on the head though. Good Job
Next On To-Do List:
Particle Cannons
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1108
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 17:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote: hmmm time to do DAMAGE CONTROL so no one does anything to my IWINZ tank.
That's all I gotz.
Pauses Dragons Dogma.
Looks at tank scrubs running triple hardners
Hey Cody nothing personal and with all due respect but *_*_*_* OFF!!
Checks to see if Planetside 2 is going to be ready by April or May.
Continues playing Dragons Dogma.
Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!!
Jumps into escape pod!
Selected destination Planet PS4.
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2056
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 17:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Atiim wrote:I'd say give the Forge Gun a faster recharge time.
Although, I think a MLT/STD LAV should be 1 shotted by a Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade. Not 3.
Pretty much nailed it on the head though. Good Job
Oh yeah, Proto Packed AV one should LAVs regardless of race it belongs to(well, maybe the Amarr LAV should survive...)
I think the FG charge time was broken, simply because with skills the thing could out DPS anything on the field. I really do believe the FG was balanced perfectly.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2056
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 17:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:Cody Sietz wrote: hmmm time to do DAMAGE CONTROL so no one does anything to my IWINZ tank.
That's all I gotz. Pauses Dragons Dogma. Looks at tank scrubs running triple hardners Hey Cody nothing personal and with all due respect but *_*_*_* OFF!! Checks to see if Planetside 2 is going to be ready by April or May. Continues playing Dragons Dogma. i don't run tanks?
I think triple or even double hardeners are broken, buts apart of the tune up I mentioned.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2260
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Posted - 2014.01.21 18:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Atiim wrote:I'd say give the Forge Gun a faster recharge time.
Although, I think a MLT/STD LAV should be 1 shotted by a Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade. Not 3.
Pretty much nailed it on the head though. Good Job
FG is fine i use it
lolno wanting a grenade to do 3k+ dmg lol, we had that last build and it was BS on all vehicles so lolno, its a AV support weapon not a primary weapon
Intelligence is OP
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2056
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Posted - 2014.01.21 18:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:I'd say give the Forge Gun a faster recharge time.
Although, I think a MLT/STD LAV should be 1 shotted by a Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade. Not 3.
Pretty much nailed it on the head though. Good Job FG is fine i use it lolno wanting a grenade to do 3k+ dmg lol, we had that last build and it was BS on all vehicles so lolno, its a AV support weapon not a primary weapon
I think if AV nades got a big multiplier VS LAVs and dropships then that would solve the issue of them being too OP vs tanks.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1108
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Posted - 2014.01.21 18:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:I think one problem is that we allowed tankers to convince us that tanks being OP is the way it should be. They count as one character, one entity, on the field yet if we take a militia tank, no modules and compare it to drop suits what do we see? A tank can one shot anybody, a forge gun takes 3 or 4 shots to kill a tank. Sprint speed is around 7 meters a second, tank speed is 5 times that, drop suits can be killed by small arms, tanks are immune to small arms, if a suit jumps on a tank it is funny, if a tank runs over a suit it is dead, suits can only change suits at supply depots, tanks can be recalled or called at any time, when a suit is in the verge of death, they die, a tanker can jump out and fight as a suit do is essentially playing as two characters. Forget about hardeners and Speed boosts, tanks are OP. The funny thing is that we are willing to accept it, until they broke the camel's back.
Tankers, even though they are only one character, think they should be entitled to all these advantages. I'm actually OK with it, just don't insult our intelligence saying tanks are balanced or that this is even the goal.
Just waiting on Planetside 2.
Then I am sure me and some other folks will let CCP know what we think of IWINZ tanks.
Most Dust 514 chat channels now are ghost towns thanks to 1.7 tank spam....bah!!
Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!!
Jumps into escape pod!
Selected destination Planet PS4.
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2260
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 18:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:I'd say give the Forge Gun a faster recharge time.
Although, I think a MLT/STD LAV should be 1 shotted by a Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade. Not 3.
Pretty much nailed it on the head though. Good Job FG is fine i use it lolno wanting a grenade to do 3k+ dmg lol, we had that last build and it was BS on all vehicles so lolno, its a AV support weapon not a primary weapon I think if AV nades got a big multiplier VS LAVs and dropships then that would solve the issue of them being too OP vs tanks.
Against DS lol since when did superman play the game and lauch nades 600m upwards lol
Intelligence is OP
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Venerable Phage
Red Shirts Away Team
2
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Posted - 2014.01.21 18:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:I find tanks explode rather quickly if they are MLT and blindly wandering around an objective.
Proto suits die too if they do something stupid.
MLT tanks die even quicker if they stop on a ridge and pretend they are a sniper too. |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
3755
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 18:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
FG is fine i use it
lolno wanting a grenade to do 3k+ dmg lol, we had that last build and it was BS on all vehicles so lolno, its a AV support weapon not a primary weapon
I won't debate the Forge Gun lock times.
Anyways, it's an MLT/STD LAV against a PRO AV Weapon.. And they sill wouldn't do jack $#!t if you hardners are on.
If someone ambushes you with your hardeners down... Well then that's working as intended.
Next On To-Do List:
Particle Cannons
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1108
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Posted - 2014.01.21 18:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:I'd say give the Forge Gun a faster recharge time.
Although, I think a MLT/STD LAV should be 1 shotted by a Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade. Not 3.
Pretty much nailed it on the head though. Good Job FG is fine i use it lolno wanting a grenade to do 3k+ dmg lol, we had that last build and it was BS on all vehicles so lolno, its a AV support weapon not a primary weapon I think if AV nades got a big multiplier VS LAVs and dropships then that would solve the issue of them being too OP vs tanks.
Hell no!!
Then you get a dropship one shoted by an AV grenade??
Thats balance??
If anything tanks need to go SLOWER than an LAV.
Tank top speed needs to be 18m to 20m.
And why no infantry trenches for infantry to hide in??
The main problem is 16 V 16
Thats too small a player count to support vehicle spam.
Anywho the solution is the great PS4 migration.
Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!!
Jumps into escape pod!
Selected destination Planet PS4.
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
3755
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 18:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
Look, Cody is not asking for Derpships to be OHK'd by AV grenades.
He's just asking for them to do more damage to them than what they currently do.
Next On To-Do List:
Particle Cannons
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2057
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Posted - 2014.01.21 18:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:I'd say give the Forge Gun a faster recharge time.
Although, I think a MLT/STD LAV should be 1 shotted by a Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade. Not 3.
Pretty much nailed it on the head though. Good Job FG is fine i use it lolno wanting a grenade to do 3k+ dmg lol, we had that last build and it was BS on all vehicles so lolno, its a AV support weapon not a primary weapon I think if AV nades got a big multiplier VS LAVs and dropships then that would solve the issue of them being too OP vs tanks. Hell no!! Then you get a dropship one shoted by an AV grenade?? Thats balance?? If anything tanks need to go SLOWER than an LAV. Tank top speed needs to be 18m to 20m. And why no infantry trenches for infantry to hide in?? The main problem is 16 V 16 Thats too small a player count to support vehicle spam. Anywho the solution is the great PS4 migration. im not gonna argue with you about tank speed, they are too quick. But again, that's a tuning issue.
As for dropships, I don't want them to be one shotted, but if they get within 10 meters of someone chucking packed AV, it should hurt like heck.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2261
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 18:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Look, Cody is not asking for Derpships to be OHK'd by AV grenades.
He's just asking for them to do more damage to them than what they currently do.
DS are in a **** position
Nerf current mods for tanks, DS get whacked with the nerf bat it looks like even tho its only the mods changing DS will suffer more
Ask for AV buff against tanks, DS suffer again
Only way DS could gain the advantage is if mods requirements got reduced so they can fit stuff on and a PG/CPU buff espc for adv and proto DS, also having medium mods would help instead of light and heavy mods when frankly its more like a medium sized vehicle
Also to hit a DS with AV nades you need to throw it 200m up in the air at least and its not going to happen
Intelligence is OP
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1109
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Posted - 2014.01.21 18:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Look, Cody is not asking for Derpships to be OHK'd by AV grenades.
He's just asking for them to do more damage to them than what they currently do.
Ok.
Even the idea of a triple SP event makes me go bleh!! since its either run vehicles or get facerolled by tanks.
Not fun= not playing.
Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!!
Jumps into escape pod!
Selected destination Planet PS4.
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2057
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Posted - 2014.01.21 18:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:Look, Cody is not asking for Derpships to be OHK'd by AV grenades.
He's just asking for them to do more damage to them than what they currently do. DS are in a **** position Nerf current mods for tanks, DS get whacked with the nerf bat it looks like even tho its only the mods changing DS will suffer more Ask for AV buff against tanks, DS suffer again Only way DS could gain the advantage is if mods requirements got reduced so they can fit stuff on and a PG/CPU buff espc for adv and proto DS, also having medium mods would help instead of light and heavy mods when frankly its more like a medium sized vehicle Also to hit a DS with AV nades you need to throw it 200m up in the air at least and its not going to happen
Yeah, that's only gonna be fixed if they make individual modules for tanks, LAVs and dropships. Can mess around with one without potentially buffing/nerfing the other 2.
Dropships seem to be working fine. If I don't fly like a idiot(which I usually do) then I can survive with no problem...until I get too close to a RDV...380k down the terlet.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Beld Errmon
The Southern Legion
1248
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 18:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
Yeah I think even real tankers are sick of the current tanks, you either spend the entire match running a railgun to control tank spam or find yourself forced into it when you get sick of seeing a toy tanker spamming the killfeed with militia blaster kills, double the cost and hit militia modules and tanks with the superWTF nerfbat of doom.
I still think the QQ cup runneth over regarding AV, when I pull out my protoswarms tanks tend to die, but i guess it takes a tanker to know how to kill a tanker, unless of course your good with a forgegun, most of the ones with good FGs seem to know their ****. |
Darken-Soul
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
50
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Posted - 2014.01.21 18:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
For every one laying the blame on MLT tanks you can get into basic tanks and mods for about 400k SP. You are going to see the same people spamming better tanks. That is why shifting blame is terrible for dust. You are just wasting CCPs time when they could be fixing the real issues
I am the real Darken
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1111
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Posted - 2014.01.21 18:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
Darken-Soul wrote:For every one laying the blame on MLT tanks you can get into basic tanks and mods for about 400k SP. You are going to see the same people spamming better tanks. That is why shifting blame is terrible for dust. You are just wasting CCPs time when they could be fixing the real issues
A broken weapon, mod or vehicle is not fun.
And either the problem gets fixed or expect a SMALLER dust 514 playerbase.
Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!!
Jumps into escape pod!
Selected destination Planet PS4.
|
Lv2spd2
Slow And Old
176
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 18:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:
Hell no!!
Then you get a dropship one shoted by an AV grenade??
Thats balance??
I dunno... at first it seems wrong for AV nades to one shot a DS, but then, I don't really think DS should be flying low and slow enough to have something thrown at them by hand actually hit them very often.
I know you ADS pilots want to be able to fly inside or under buildings, and be able to use your dropship as a hammer to whack troops, but those troops sure would like to at least be able to hide effectively too. |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2060
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 19:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
Darken-Soul wrote:For every one laying the blame on MLT tanks you can get into basic tanks and mods for about 400k SP. You are going to see the same people spamming better tanks. That is why shifting blame is terrible for dust. You are just wasting CCPs time when they could be fixing the real issues
MLT tanks aren't the problem, it's being able to call in a bunch of them with a low risk, high reward system. Most blue dots are going to try and work with each other just to blow a MLT, and even if they do, they only killed a 80k that will be back in less then 20 seconds.
MLT tanks are able to counter std tanks, but in the end the better tanker is going to win. Modules are going to tip the scales, but won't always decide the outcome of a tank vs tank battle.
When you add in AV that can counter the cheaper, ill equipped tanks, then suddenly running a 5 man tank squad or calling in MLT tank, after MLT tank doesn't seem so viable.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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CLONE117
planetary retaliation organisation
ACME Holding Conglomerate
593
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 19:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
i called in the multiple tanks before in some matches back in 1.6..only to try and keep from getting endlessly redlined. i haven't been getting redlined massively since the update..
because tanks can actually prevent 1 side from completely redlining the other.
i dont think the tanks r boring. its more fun than dieing to an overpowered railrife or combat rifle.
and those guns basically have the same damage out put as the large blaster turret. |
Jason Pearson
4075
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 19:52:00 -
[28] - Quote
My LAV costs near 100k a time, so forgive me if I'm not quite interested in a AV nade buff. I want to see more of these out, I was in a battle the other watching quite an epic fight, the enemy team were on the walls of the installation, and our team had like four LAVs circling firing at them, they were getting kills, swarms were going loose and got like two of them, but they'd pushed and and our Infantry had a chance to get up to the walls and push up the little ramp. I sat back forging **** and trying to keep people off our LAVs but it looked quite epic.
But let's one shot LAVs because who cares about the overall gameplay, I should be able to one shot it because it shouldn't even be in the game. A LAV should be an assault vehicle, when we get speeders (seen the artwork for it), by all means blow them up easily, but not the LAVs.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Quil Evrything
Triple Terrors
778
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Posted - 2014.01.21 19:59:00 -
[29] - Quote
A fresh perspective on tanks, when reframed in pre-tank DUST perspective.
When looking at just dropsuits, each one has different styles. Each one can be more or less effective against other types of suits.
If you encouter, for example, a realy good heavy defending an objectve... often times, your current suit is not effective against it. You (or a teammate) may need to switch into another suit. Or even team up with someone, to take it out.
That's all good, right?
Now look at tanks.
if you encouter a tank defending (or attacking) an objective... your current suit may not be effective against it.
You (or a teammate) may need to switch into another suit. Or even team up with someone, to take it out.
It so happens, though, that "another suit", may actually be a suit with 120mm armor around it that drops from the sky.
And it costs about the same as many people's dropsuits, too.
So.. why should that in itself be a problem?
It seems to me that what makes it more annoying, are the two factors of
1. One side can deny the other side the ability to deploy tanks, if they get enough railtanks on the field
2. Just plain too many tanks at once are allowed.
So lets have CCP fix *that*?
Outside of those two things, if you look at my comparison above, then tanks in and of themselves, arent really a problem. In Many ways, they're just another type of specialized dropsuit. The "super-heavy dropsuit", if you will.
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2060
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 20:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:My LAV costs near 100k a time, so forgive me if I'm not quite interested in a AV nade buff. I want to see more of these out, I was in a battle the other watching quite an epic fight, the enemy team were on the walls of the installation, and our team had like four LAVs circling firing at them, they were getting kills, swarms were going loose and got like two of them, but they'd pushed and and our Infantry had a chance to get up to the walls and push up the little ramp. I sat back forging **** and trying to keep people off our LAVs but it looked quite epic.
But let's one shot LAVs because who cares about the overall gameplay, I should be able to one shot it because it shouldn't even be in the game. A LAV should be an assault vehicle, when we get speeders (seen the artwork for it), by all means blow them up easily, but not the LAVs.
I think Proto Packed AV should one shot stock LAVs, at least armour based ones. It's not they are easy to hit when they are circling you, let along trying to hit them 2-3 grenades.
It is the most expensive AV nade iirc and the hardest to fit onto a suit. Not to mention the high SP to get'em. If the LAV is tanked, fine, but if is stock or MLT and you actually manage to land a grenade on them, then they deserve to die.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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