DUST Search - Yeah, I don't think tanks are OP, they just don't have anything to count...

Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:

Aizen Intiki wrote:

If Tech 1 HAV's are (even though they have some issues) almost perfect, wouldn't it be counter productive to nerf them all by buffing AV?

I think what the OP is trying to say is that HAV's are currently well balanced in killing potential and armor versus infantry and other tanks, however, AV must become a threat once more to fully balance out the vehicle infantry relation.

Agreed.
Swarms could use a buff. PLC needs a buff, maybe a multiplier towards tanks? That way it doesn't insta-gib tanked heavies?

F*ck AV nades. F*ck them forever.
Tiny fitting costs + highest DPS of all AV weapons + nothing sacrificed for the fitting? Hell no.

And the reason a railgun is more dangerous to vehicles than AV? It's primary AV in the way that forges are, but is on a less versatile frame, and is somewhat more obvious. That it has sniper range and effectiveness seems somewhat odd... We'd need to see CCP's ideas on laser etc vehicle mounted AV to see the balance.
I know there's a lot of complaints that rails are more effective than blasters at CQC AV, and this is true, but seeing actual 'intended' balance would have to wait until we have something directly comparable. Either way, missiles are in desperate need of a (indirect) buff to AI (so not direct damage, but splash etc).


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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 109	Posted - 2014.01.21 20:15:00 - [1] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: I'd say give the Forge Gun a faster recharge time. Although, I think a MLT/STD LAV should be 1 shotted by a Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade. Not 3. Pretty much nailed it on the head though. Good Job FG is fine i use it lolno wanting a grenade to do 3k+ dmg lol, we had that last build and it was BS on all vehicles so lolno, its a AV support weapon not a primary weapon If every AV weapon is an AV support weapon, what is the primary AV weapon? An MLT tank with a railgun? Sorry, just noticing a fatal flaw with a lot of logic that i have seen from you. Please revise your argument, unless your current position is that an MLT tank with a railgun should be better AV than prototype Swarm Launchers or Forge Guns. Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 109	Posted - 2014.01.21 21:53:00 - [2] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: I'd say give the Forge Gun a faster recharge time. Although, I think a MLT/STD LAV should be 1 shotted by a Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade. Not 3. Pretty much nailed it on the head though. Good Job FG is fine i use it lolno wanting a grenade to do 3k+ dmg lol, we had that last build and it was BS on all vehicles so lolno, its a AV support weapon not a primary weapon If every AV weapon is an AV support weapon, what is the primary AV weapon? An MLT tank with a railgun? Sorry, just noticing a fatal flaw with a lot of logic that i have seen from you. Please revise your argument, unless your current position is that an MLT tank with a railgun should be better AV than prototype Swarm Launchers or Forge Guns. Primary AV weapons - FG/swarms/lolPLC MLT Railgun vs FG - Railgun is at least 10times the size of a FG, requires a tank to use it, requires massive amounts of PG to equip and use hence the need for a tank hull, it cannot be fit on any dropsuit due to size and power output needed to use it, it can fire the shell farther and it hits harder because its bigger and requires vasts amount of PG to use it And the plasma cannon requires more CPU, therefore it should do twice the damage of the railgun, and have a 9 shot clip. Also it is larger than the swarm launcher, and put on the shoulder to fire, which means that it has more kick than the forge gun, and thus should have like 5 times the damage. Also, they require a drop suit to put them on, so it makes sense that they should do more damage than any other AV weapon in the game. Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 109	Posted - 2014.01.21 21:56:00 - [3] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: I'd say give the Forge Gun a faster recharge time. Although, I think a MLT/STD LAV should be 1 shotted by a Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade. Not 3. Pretty much nailed it on the head though. Good Job FG is fine i use it lolno wanting a grenade to do 3k+ dmg lol, we had that last build and it was BS on all vehicles so lolno, its a AV support weapon not a primary weapon If every AV weapon is an AV support weapon, what is the primary AV weapon? An MLT tank with a railgun? Sorry, just noticing a fatal flaw with a lot of logic that i have seen from you. Please revise your argument, unless your current position is that an MLT tank with a railgun should be better AV than prototype Swarm Launchers or Forge Guns. Primary AV weapons - FG/swarms/lolPLC MLT Railgun vs FG - Railgun is at least 10times the size of a FG, requires a tank to use it, requires massive amounts of PG to equip and use hence the need for a tank hull, it cannot be fit on any dropsuit due to size and power output needed to use it, it can fire the shell farther and it hits harder because its bigger and requires vasts amount of PG to use it Stop using insurmountable logic on them. Read my previous post to understand that this insurmountable logic is actually flawed and structurally unstable in and of itself. Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 109	Posted - 2014.01.21 22:02:00 - [4] - Quote Aizen Intiki wrote: If Tech 1 HAV's are (even though they have some issues) almost perfect, wouldn't it be counter productive to nerf them all by buffing AV? I think what the OP is trying to say is that HAV's are currently well balanced in killing potential and armor versus infantry and other tanks, however, AV must become a threat once more to fully balance out the vehicle infantry relation. Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 109	Posted - 2014.01.21 22:33:00 - [5] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Aizen Intiki wrote: If Tech 1 HAV's are (even though they have some issues) almost perfect, wouldn't it be counter productive to nerf them all by buffing AV? I think what the OP is trying to say is that HAV's are currently well balanced in killing potential and armor versus infantry and other tanks, however, AV must become a threat once more to fully balance out the vehicle infantry relation. Agreed. Swarms could use a buff. PLC needs a buff, maybe a multiplier towards tanks? That way it doesn't insta-gib tanked heavies? Fck AV nades. Fck them forever. Tiny fitting costs + highest DPS of all AV weapons + nothing sacrificed for the fitting? Hell no. And the reason a railgun is more dangerous to vehicles than AV? It's primary AV in the way that forges are, but is on a less versatile frame, and is somewhat more obvious. That it has sniper range and effectiveness seems somewhat odd... We'd need to see CCP's ideas on laser etc vehicle mounted AV to see the balance. I know there's a lot of complaints that rails are more effective than blasters at CQC AV, and this is true, but seeing actual 'intended' balance would have to wait until we have something directly comparable. Either way, missiles are in desperate need of a (indirect) buff to AI (so not direct damage, but splash etc). I personally think that nades need a buff for these reasons: 1. It requires a lot of skill to get in close enough to use them, and with current tank speed, managing to hit with all three is very very difficult, and resupplying at a hive and continuing to throw is impossible, unless the tank is stuck 2. There are only three available at the very most at one time, and if a tanker allows himself to be hit by all three, AS WELL as, at most, a whole clip of swarm launcher shots, it should kill anything but double or triple hardened shield tanks. That is all. Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 111	Posted - 2014.01.21 22:44:00 - [6] - Quote Also, i would really like a response from tankehiro kashuken and spkr4thedead Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 111	Posted - 2014.01.21 23:37:00 - [7] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Its not been invalidated at all The CPU needed is pathetic, a tank could easily fit it as a small turret Also the PLC fires a ball of plasma, not a projectile at high speed, its more like an RPG of sorts which doesnt need a powerful dropsuit to operate it because the suit and weapon are not joined together, essentially you could improve the ammunition to make it more powerful but as a consequence recoil could be alot stronger and also it may hinder movement and reload speeds like the Breach FG does with limited movement due to the high damage output and long spool up time The railgun is a electrically powered electromagnetic projectile launcher in which a pair of parallel conducting rails, along which a sliding armature is accelerated by the electromagnetic effects of a current that flows down one rail, into the armature and then back along the other rail - This alone requires vasts amounts of PG but also accelerates the projectile alot quicker than the plasma cannon does and with it increases the damage output and distance it can travel, increase the size of the railgun it increases the amount of PG needed and also increases the damage and range output hence why the FG has half the range and reduced damage and requires a heavy suit to use Would you like to know more? I would simply like a summary of your main points so that i may continue to refute them. So far, the information that I have gleaned from your post about why a railgun should be exponentially better than any other anti vehicle weapon in the game isGÇª 1. Plasma Cannon CPU usage is very low, allowing it to be fitted as a small turret (please report back to me the CPU usage of the prototype non-specialist cannon, as I am certain that if you attempted to fit one or more of these on a tank as well as modules, you would be sorely disappointed) 2.The plasma fired from a plasma cannon does not move as fast as the railgun shell, so because of this, the plasma cannon shot, which has much more kinetic molecular energy, and is compressed inside of a magnetic field, causing increased pressure should be less efficient, where in reality, a railgun shot is useful for destroying tanks because it moves so fast that it pierces the tank shell and destroys the interior electronic and mechanical engineering. A mass of plasma that is being compressed should be incredibly potent due to its potential and kinetic-molecular energy, and would therefore completely obliterate any entity, if the mass/heat/pressure of the plasma were high enough. I know what I am talking about in this field, so please don't try to bluster your way through. 3. The railgun is a railgun, made with what is known in this game as rail technology, and has less than a second of charge time, so it should be better than an anti vehicle weapon with a 4+ second charge time that uses rail technology. 4.Self created conceptions about the game>Actual weapon descriptions and real life physics>AV/ tank balance Please correct me if i misconceived any of these points, or if you have additional points to offer. Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 113	Posted - 2014.01.21 23:53:00 - [8] - Quote Please tankihiro post a response. Im enjoying this a lot right now. I personally don't care about tanks, and completely stopped running AV completely a little into 1.7, and only run scouts now. i think that something saying that you were wrong and the #1 gav was right is not entirely amiss, n'est-ce pas? Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 116	Posted - 2014.01.22 01:46:00 - [9] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: If the Large Rails ever get nerfed downs to FGs then you can claim they are fine. Until then you're just defending your broken game mode. Do you think he will even respond to this thread after I just destroyed his "logic" twice? Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 119	Posted - 2014.01.22 02:29:00 - [10] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: HiddenBrother wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Checks to see if Planetside 2 is going to be ready by April or May. I find it funny that you're waiting on a game in which vehicles play such a massive role. A tank in Planetside far outlives a Tank in Dust. 32 v 32 or even better 64 v 64 has the player numbers to support vehicles I am waiting on a game that supports Player Studio. why? 8,000 reasons all saying United States of America dollars. and thats per game asset once past QA. Look up John Smedly. real cash over play money wins out. Id like there to be options for game sizes for matchmaking as well, once the existing player base becomes larger, this will be especially useful. However, with the 40,000 average, i think that the sizes should be 6 v 6 (squad only, with maps about 1/3-1/2 their current size) 16 v 16 (current), 32 v 32 (would require larger maps, about 1,000-1,500 meters in diameter), and 64 v 64 (would require huge maps of about a 2,000-3,000 meter diameter.) Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 120	Posted - 2014.01.22 03:07:00 - [11] - Quote Come on Atiim I know you're out thereGÇªwhat do you have ego say? Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 123	Posted - 2014.01.22 03:24:00 - [12] - Quote Atiim wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Come on Atiim I know you're out thereGÇªwhat do you have ego say? I'd go form a counter-argument against Tankahiro, but you pretty much covered everything. Though I would personally pay 5mil ISK to see his response. As would I. I really want a third shot at him right now. Kinda hoping spkr4thedead posts something as well, though i'm beginning to think that they are the same person. Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 124	Posted - 2014.01.22 03:36:00 - [13] - Quote Atiim wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: As would I. I really want a third shot at him right now. Kinda hoping spkr4thedead posts something as well, though i'm beginning to think that they are the same person. I've seen both of them camping on towers with Forge Guns in 1.5 (ironically the very same thing they spent all of Uprising moaning about); so I can confirm that they are both two different people. Apparently great minds aren't the only ones that think alike. Im kind of harping all of this smack talk will enrage one of them enough to post on this thread again Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 124	Posted - 2014.01.22 03:43:00 - [14] - Quote Maniak Madness wrote: The Issue isnt the tanks or the tank mechanics, Ill try to sum it up in the most simple way I can. CCP rushed the vehicle release because everyone was QQing about the repeated push back dates, so all they were able to do was release Militia and Standard tanks. Now to compensate for this they nerfed all forms of AV so that Tanks stood a chance. So now Militia tanks and Standard tanks are being flooded because they are cheap, and powerfull. However once Advanced and Proto tanks are released CCP will buff AV to deal with the higher quality of Tanks available. Once that happens you'll find that cheaper tanks will pop easily to the buffed AV, However Advanced and Proto Tanks will remain roughly the same difficultly to pop as it is now except they will be: A: Expensive B: Require a substantial amount of SP to be used This will stop tank spam as not everyone will have the SP and/or afford these higher quality Tanks. To sum it up this problem will only be solved by releasing higher tier tanks. The current STD tanks are stronger than any 1.6 tanks however (unless using glitched reppers), and AV was nerved to account for that. Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 132	Posted - 2014.01.22 20:00:00 - [15] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: PLC fits on a gunlogi fine The plasma round tho still has to be safe and stable for infantry to carry and use, cant have it melting through the launcher and the suit Railgun is a railgun - Its a 80gj railgun tbh, small turrets are 20gj and FG could be around 40-60gj but with massive drawbacks 4. lol your doing the same thing Yes it may fit on a gunlogi, but try fitting modules as well (such as triple complex damage mods), and you may find a problem will arise that doesn't when trying to fit a railgun. The railgun has to be safe for the tank, and with its current power, the equal and opposite force must be applied, so by this logic that real life physics should apply to a video game, which it doesn't in this video game, by firing a railgun that produces more power than a compressed mass of plasma, the force should theoretically destroy the tank where the turret was mounted. In real life, rail guns can only be fired for about 3 shots on average or so (from my most recent knowledge) before they wear out, therefore, the tank should take damage from shooting the railgun, and after a few shots should be unable to fire any longer. Please discontinue this physics argument, as it is inapplicable to a video game that does not follow real life physics. By this logic, that the small turrets have no drawbacks but the forge gun at 40gj does, the large railgun should have twice the charge time of the forge gun, and the small turrets one half the charge time. No actually Im not. Im attempting to stoop to your level in order to enlighten you about why you are wrong in order for both of us to come to a common consensus. That is all. Please respond, I am enjoying this. Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 210	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:49:00 - [16] - Quote Wow just off of these posts i think i got 74 likes. Thanks forum community! Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 214	Posted - 2014.01.23 01:49:00 - [17] - Quote Our Deepest Regret wrote: Personally, I think if you limited the ability to summon vehicles to players with a 1,000,000 SP minimum investment, it would solve a lot of the militia spam that's strangled the fun out of pub games. The problem with that is that new players can't skill into tanks, leading it to be taken up by only the elite veterans, which is something CCP should stay away from. I think weakening all MLT and STD variants even more than ADV and PRO types would lead to equality Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 214	Posted - 2014.01.23 01:56:00 - [18] - Quote Our Deepest Regret wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Our Deepest Regret wrote: Personally, I think if you limited the ability to summon vehicles to players with a 1,000,000 SP minimum investment, it would solve a lot of the militia spam that's strangled the fun out of pub games. The problem with that is that new players can't skill into tanks, leading it to be taken up by only the elite veterans, which is something CCP should stay away from. I think weakening all MLT and STD variants even more than ADV and PRO types would lead to equality Good point. The hardeners and damage mods need to be nerfed, but all other modules are fine. Railguns need a slight nerf to rotation speed, damage, and pre-shot charge time, as well as range. Blasters need bullet speed instead of instantly hitting the target when they are fired, as well as a slight damage decrease at MLT and STD level. They also need a range reduction so that they can't snipe infantry and 2 shot a juking scout from 175 meters away by spraying and praying. Missiles need to work like shotguns for reloading, and all tank speed needs a 50% nerf (at least). In addition to this, AV needs to be buffed so that it is able to kill tanks. Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 214	Posted - 2014.01.23 01:59:00 - [19] - Quote Atiim wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Wow just off of these posts i think i got 74 likes. Thanks forum community! You don't seem to have enough. So here's another Thanks Atiim Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 214	Posted - 2014.01.23 02:06:00 - [20] - Quote You know what i would like even more than a lot of likes is for Tankihiro to come back on this page to defend his "insurmountable logic", or at least give me the public apology and acknowledge that he agrees with me, and denounces all of his prior misinformed opinions. Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 339	Posted - 2014.01.30 21:42:00 - [21] - Quote bump for Tankahiro Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Help Shields