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Eurydice Itzhak
Providence Guard
Templis CALSF
341
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Posted - 2014.01.19 09:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why do i 3 shot them with an adv forge? (It also happens tp nearly flip them and make them easy targets)
Why do they die in half a second to 12 missiles?
Why do the best ads pilots I've seen get a measly 10 to 15 kills with no av present?
Why is piloting and aiming from an ads incredibly complex? Requires far more skill than a rifle. More map awareness than tanking which already requires you to know whats going on in every corner of the map and respond.
Rail turret scrubs grasping at straws.
Introduce a 200m shield av turret. Modestly effective vs infantry. Profit. |
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
5406
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Posted - 2014.01.19 10:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
"Without RDVs assault dropships would go unchecked!"
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
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Eurydice Itzhak
Providence Guard
Templis CALSF
341
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Posted - 2014.01.19 10:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:"Without RDVs assault dropships would go unchecked!"
True facts. |
Vulpes Dolosus
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
627
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Posted - 2014.01.19 10:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lol true. But rails do have a purpose so I would let them stay, just fix them a bit. Lower the optimal range to around 350-400m, drop-off being 450-500 at 20% effectiveness. Our maps are way to big to have a perfectly accurate, 600m, rapid-fire, high damage artillery weapon. Something has to give. I'd also like a slight RoF buff. Damage, elevation, rotation-speed, and fitting would be fine at this point.
Dropship Specialist
Kills- Incubus: 4; Pythons: 1; Other DS: 28 Gêå1; Tanks: 27 Gêå2
1/1
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TechMechMeds
Swamp Tempo
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
2219
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Posted - 2014.01.19 10:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
I understand the issue but its a railgun, the slug would travel about 3 miles before drop off so stop being ridiculous. An ROF nerf would be better or lower the shots before overheat by one.
Level 2 forum warrior.
Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam
I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
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Eurydice Itzhak
Providence Guard
Templis CALSF
344
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 10:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:I understand the issue but its a railgun, the slu  g would travel about 3 miles before drop off so stop being ridiculous. An ROF nerf would be better or lower the shots before overheat by one.
People calling for a rof nerf make me laugh.
It can output at well over 3k a shot.
Even if it overheated with 1 shot its still absolutely ridiculous. |
NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2014.01.19 10:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Eurydice Itzhak wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:I understand the issue but its a railgun, the slu g would travel about 3 miles before drop off so stop being ridiculous. An ROF nerf would be better or lower the shots before overheat by one. People calling for a rof nerf make me laugh. It can output at well over 3k a shot. Even if it overheated with 1 shot its still absolutely ridiculous.
Damage mods for railguns need nerfing to 10 or 20%, the rof needs to go down slight because its too high, and 500m range
Along with a 100 damage reduction
Damage falloff at 300m
Also only 1 damage mod per fitting |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
805
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Posted - 2014.01.19 10:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
all rail turrets need a tiny pinpoint reticle. this way big slow targets die the same as normal but smaller faster targets such as DS and infantry are much harder to hit. if the ads is moving it doesn't die as easy but its aim suffers. if it sits still its aim is deadly but rail turrets have a strong chance of killing you. the problem is rail turrets can just as easily kill a fast moving scout as they can a tank. the "if the reticle is red,shoot" mechanic needs to go and the size of the reticle needs a massive reduction
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
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Eurydice Itzhak
Providence Guard
Templis CALSF
344
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 10:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:all rail turrets need a tiny pinpoint reticle. this way big slow targets die the same as normal but smaller faster targets such as DS and infantry are much harder to hit. if the ads is moving it doesn't die as easy but its aim suffers. if it sits still its aim is deadly but rail turrets have a strong chance of killing you. the problem is rail turrets can just as easily kill a fast moving scout as they can a tank. the "if the reticle is red,shoot" mechanic needs to go and the size of the reticle needs a massive reduction
There could be no reticule and it wouldn't make a single difference to anyone who's played old shooters.
I'm not exactly sure what youre getting at. The fire is already extremely tight. |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
806
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Posted - 2014.01.19 11:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Eurydice Itzhak wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:all rail turrets need a tiny pinpoint reticle. this way big slow targets die the same as normal but smaller faster targets such as DS and infantry are much harder to hit. if the ads is moving it doesn't die as easy but its aim suffers. if it sits still its aim is deadly but rail turrets have a strong chance of killing you. the problem is rail turrets can just as easily kill a fast moving scout as they can a tank. the "if the reticle is red,shoot" mechanic needs to go and the size of the reticle needs a massive reduction There could be no reticule and it wouldn't make a single difference to anyone who's played old shooters. I'm not exactly sure what youre getting at. The fire is already extremely tight.
damn right it would make a difference. there is not a chance in hell you are going to strike down a moving ads with no reticle from a rail tank or rail installation. its hard enough to hit something your aiming at with the reticle let alone without one. the problem with dust is you can shoot as soon as the reticle turns red regardless of movement and weather your actually on target and you will hit. this is the mechanic most people use and what makes forge sniping work so well.
reducing the reticle down to a pinpoint one instead of a massive box would limit what it can hit to large slow moving targets and anything sitting still. if your fast moving then your not going to be hit as easy.
current rail guns can shoot anything moving or not regardless of size and that is down to the reticle size and the red marker saying you are on target. with what i suggested an ads hovering above an objective is deadly until a rail shoots it down. a moving ads above an objective is ineffective yet the rail cant shoot it down because its hard to hit. the choice is for the ads guy to take.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
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richiesutie 2
The Rainbow Effect
655
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Posted - 2014.01.19 11:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
You must of seen some really **** pilots best I've gone this builds is 47/1 with other dedicated pilots going similar.
10-15 kills jezz
compilation of Patch/build notes
Check it out! :)
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Delta90212
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
162
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Posted - 2014.01.19 11:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Imho i think that railguns should get lower ROF and only 1 damage mod per fitting.
Fear The Tribes // Standings Minmatar 5 // Gallente 5
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
474
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Posted - 2014.01.19 11:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
NK Scout wrote:Eurydice Itzhak wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:I understand the issue but its a railgun, the slu g would travel about 3 miles before drop off so stop being ridiculous. An ROF nerf would be better or lower the shots before overheat by one. People calling for a rof nerf make me laugh. It can output at well over 3k a shot. Even if it overheated with 1 shot its still absolutely ridiculous. Damage mods for railguns need nerfing to 10 or 20%, the rof needs to go down slight because its too high, and 500m range Along with a 100 damage reduction Damage falloff at 300m Also only 1 damage mod per fitting
Pssh, you really have no clue do you?
What you're really trying to get at is the existence of ADV and PRO rails. I basically think they just aren't needed.
You can entirely replace a damage mod by just switching out for an ADV+ turret.. while keeping all the defense items you wanted before..
It should be defense OR offense as your choice, not a convenient "I'll take both" that ADV and PRO rails currently offer. ;/
Why would this suddenly make it a choice? Because higher damage would require removing a defensive module in order to pop in an offensive one. Most tanks can only handle about 2 or so "mods of choice" alongside a repair and/or a scanner if they can even fit that.
If you can read this, it means you are reading.
Unless you are skimming
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Eurydice Itzhak
Providence Guard
Templis CALSF
349
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Posted - 2014.01.19 19:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Eurydice Itzhak wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:all rail turrets need a tiny pinpoint reticle. this way big slow targets die the same as normal but smaller faster targets such as DS and infantry are much harder to hit. if the ads is moving it doesn't die as easy but its aim suffers. if it sits still its aim is deadly but rail turrets have a strong chance of killing you. the problem is rail turrets can just as easily kill a fast moving scout as they can a tank. the "if the reticle is red,shoot" mechanic needs to go and the size of the reticle needs a massive reduction There could be no reticule and it wouldn't make a single difference to anyone who's played old shooters. I'm not exactly sure what youre getting at. The fire is already extremely tight. damn right it would make a difference. there is not a chance in hell you are going to strike down a moving ads with no reticle from a rail tank or rail installation. its hard enough to hit something your aiming at with the reticle let alone without one. the problem with dust is you can shoot as soon as the reticle turns red regardless of movement and weather your actually on target and you will hit. this is the mechanic most people use and what makes forge sniping work so well. reducing the reticle down to a pinpoint one instead of a massive box would limit what it can hit to large slow moving targets and anything sitting still. if your fast moving then your not going to be hit as easy. current rail guns can shoot anything moving or not regardless of size and that is down to the reticle size and the red marker saying you are on target. with what i suggested an ads hovering above an objective is deadly until a rail shoots it down. a moving ads above an objective is ineffective yet the rail cant shoot it down because its hard to hit. the choice is for the ads guy to take.
You aim in front of targets with a railgun due to spool up and travel time so it never turns red... It's incredibly easy to shoot any target moving at any speed.
Tons of games and weaponry have no reticule... It doesn't matter. The center of your screen is where the ball of death will occur.
But also I don't think youve ever used a railgun. The reticule is already tiny and the hitbox is tiny as well. |
Eurydice Itzhak
Providence Guard
Templis CALSF
350
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 19:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
richiesutie 2 wrote:You must of seen some really shet pilots. Best I've gone this builds is 47/1 with other dedicated pilots going similar.
10-15 kills jezz
10 to 15 is is if im running a dropship or lav.
If im in a missile tank they generally get less.
If im in a rail tank they generall never leave the ground.
Why have i never seen these legendary pilots who get 50 kills? |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
4348
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Posted - 2014.01.19 20:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
Eurydice Itzhak wrote:richiesutie 2 wrote:You must of seen some really shet pilots. Best I've gone this builds is 47/1 with other dedicated pilots going similar.
10-15 kills jezz 10 to 15 is is if im running a dropship or lav. If im in a missile tank they generally get less. If im in a rail tank they generall never leave the ground. Why have i never seen these legendary pilots who get 50 kills?
cause they only ever happen in matches where the enemy team have no competent av or any at all, hence boasting of the amount of kills you get in them is like boasting about your killstreak in a singleplayer game on the easiest difficulty. 10-15 is a respectable killcount in matches with active and competent av, and 20+ is actually impressive.
Lv 4 forum warrior
Bringer of Bacon
Knight of AMV's
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TechMechMeds
Swamp Tempo
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
2225
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 22:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
Eurydice Itzhak wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:I understand the issue but its a railgun, the slu g would travel about 3 miles before drop off so stop being ridiculous. An ROF nerf would be better or lower the shots before overheat by one. People calling for a rof nerf make me laugh. It can output at well over 3k a shot. Even if it overheated with 1 shot its still absolutely ridiculous.
People who think that a railgun should drop off at about 350 metres make me laugh as well.
Level 2 forum warrior.
Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam
I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
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TechMechMeds
Swamp Tempo
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
2225
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 22:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
And they fire metal slugs fyi, a solid metal slug. So now you can swivel on your dumb a$$ confused face lol.
Level 2 forum warrior.
Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam
I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
|
Beck Weathers
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
324
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Posted - 2014.01.19 22:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
Thos drop ship pilots must be good flyers but terible shots because most pro ADS pilots i know go 25+ kills and sometimes a few tanks to boot. |
Zirzo Valcyn
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
55
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Posted - 2014.01.19 22:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
add bullet drop to rail projectile.
hire a person who's actually played past FPS's to design the maps- nearly every map is a crater/turkey shoot set up for redline only players.
it doesn't take a masters degree in gaming to do this. ppl make good maps all the time on minecraft and GTAO idk why they can't seem to pull it off here.
u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll.
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TechMechMeds
Swamp Tempo
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
2225
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 22:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
Zirzo Valcyn wrote:add bullet drop to rail projectile.
hire a person who's actually played past FPS's to design the maps- nearly every map is a crater/turkey shoot set up for redline only players.
it doesn't take a masters degree in gaming to do this. ppl make good maps all the time on minecraft and GTAO idk why they can't seem to pull it off here.
Its a railgun though, if that had bullet drop so should the sniper and small rails. They exert too much kinetic energy for drop off on the scale of the maps we fight on.
I think the problem is damage mods with it, but the guys using damage mods are glass cannons.
I'm not sure how it could be fixed but bare in mind vehicles are not finished by any means and without damage mods on my tanker alt, the derpshts easily escape, with damage mods they are either toast or they get away. Meh.
Fall off from a rail weapon would only make sense on maps scaled in miles.
ROF or more heat build up seems to be the only way to fix it. Damage mods sacrifice hp so I don't see a problem there.
And hardeners are hardeners, they will always make things a biach to kill, that's the whole point of them.
Level 2 forum warrior.
Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam
I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
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KING CHECKMATE
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
3774
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 22:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
RAil Turrets STAY and they are FINE.
DS pilots are like all vehicle users here in the forums.
Salty QQers that want everything handed to them.
AND Hate having counters.
As it is, only Rail turrets AND Forge guns work vs DS and you want one of them removed? or Nerfed?
HTFU scrubs.....
GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
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Scheneighnay McBob
Learning Coalition College
3642
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Posted - 2014.01.19 22:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
3 shot?
My ADS gets one-shotted by proto forges.
We used to have a time machine
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TechMechMeds
Swamp Tempo
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
2225
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Posted - 2014.01.19 22:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:3 shot?
My ADS gets one-shotted by proto forges.
What is your fitting and is this during hardener cool down?
Level 2 forum warrior.
Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam
I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
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KING CHECKMATE
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
3774
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Posted - 2014.01.19 22:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:3 shot?
My ADS gets one-shotted by proto forges.
QQ more.
Your obviously doing it wrong since i cant 1HKO a DS with my Breach Fg , Proto level, Prof 5 and 2 complex dam mods.
GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
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TechMechMeds
Swamp Tempo
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
2225
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Posted - 2014.01.19 22:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:3 shot?
My ADS gets one-shotted by proto forges. QQ more. Your obviously doing it wrong since i cant 1HKO a DS with my Breach Fg , Proto level, Prof 5 and 2 complex dam mods.
Let them reveal their bullsht with questions mate, your undeniable logic sadly won't work lol. 
Level 2 forum warrior.
Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam
I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
|
TechMechMeds
Swamp Tempo
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
2225
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 23:14:00 -
[27] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:3 shot?
My ADS gets one-shotted by proto forges. QQ more. Your obviously doing it wrong since i cant 1HKO a DS with my Breach Fg , Proto level, Prof 5 and 2 complex dam mods.
Ha, it worked, you just won the forums 
Level 2 forum warrior.
Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam
I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
|
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
4359
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Posted - 2014.01.19 23:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:3 shot?
My ADS gets one-shotted by proto forges. QQ more. Your obviously doing it wrong since i cant 1HKO a DS with my Breach Fg , Proto level, Prof 5 and 2 complex dam mods.
hitting them is required checkmate. 
Lv 4 forum warrior
Bringer of Bacon
Knight of AMV's
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richiesutie 2
The Rainbow Effect
656
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Posted - 2014.01.19 23:33:00 -
[29] - Quote
gbghg wrote:Eurydice Itzhak wrote:richiesutie 2 wrote:You must of seen some really shet pilots. Best I've gone this builds is 47/1 with other dedicated pilots going similar.
10-15 kills jezz 10 to 15 is is if im running a dropship or lav. If im in a missile tank they generally get less. If im in a rail tank they generall never leave the ground. Why have i never seen these legendary pilots who get 50 kills? cause they only ever happen in matches where the enemy team have no competent av or any at all, hence boasting of the amount of kills you get in them is like boasting about your killstreak in a singleplayer game on the easiest difficulty. 10-15 is a respectable killcount in matches with active and competent av, and 20+ is actually impressive.
We can always get pics though. :)
compilation of Patch/build notes
Check it out! :)
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richiesutie 2
The Rainbow Effect
656
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Posted - 2014.01.19 23:35:00 -
[30] - Quote
Eurydice Itzhak wrote:richiesutie 2 wrote:You must of seen some really shet pilots. Best I've gone this builds is 47/1 with other dedicated pilots going similar.
10-15 kills jezz 10 to 15 is is if im running a dropship or lav. If im in a missile tank they generally get less. If im in a rail tank they generall never leave the ground. Why have i never seen these legendary pilots who get 50 kills?
We're on the eu server where the talent is at. XD
compilation of Patch/build notes
Check it out! :)
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KING CHECKMATE
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
3779
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Posted - 2014.01.19 23:37:00 -
[31] - Quote
gbghg wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:3 shot?
My ADS gets one-shotted by proto forges. QQ more. Your obviously doing it wrong since i cant 1HKO a DS with my Breach Fg , Proto level, Prof 5 and 2 complex dam mods. hitting them is required checkmate.
Sarcasm is of no use here since:
GÖª It does not help the thread
GÖª It does not make you sound ''witty'' nor ''smart''
GÖª Its pretty obvious im talking about a HIT. Now if i have to actually write whats OBVIOUS...well... i have nothing else to say.
GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
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gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
4361
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Posted - 2014.01.19 23:40:00 -
[32] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:gbghg wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:3 shot?
My ADS gets one-shotted by proto forges. QQ more. Your obviously doing it wrong since i cant 1HKO a DS with my Breach Fg , Proto level, Prof 5 and 2 complex dam mods. hitting them is required checkmate. Sarcasm is of no use here since:GÖª It does not help the thread GÖª It does not make you sound ''witty'' nor ''smart'' GÖª Its pretty obvious im talking about a HIT. Now if i have to actually write whats OBVIOUS...well... i have nothing else to say.
the intention was to add some humour to lighten the thread up a tad, and seriously if thats the case your clearly hitting them when the hardeners are on, unless incubus's can now be bricked tanked to stupid levels.
Lv 4 forum warrior
Bringer of Bacon
Knight of AMV's
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Alpha 443-6732
318
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Posted - 2014.01.19 23:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
Eurydice Itzhak wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:I understand the issue but its a railgun, the slu g would travel about 3 miles before drop off so stop being ridiculous. An ROF nerf would be better or lower the shots before overheat by one. People calling for a rof nerf make me laugh.It can output at well over 3k a shot. Even if it overheated with 1 shot its still absolutely ridiculous.
What, because it doesn't fit with your ASS dropship agenda?
Also not related to the issue, but if you are getting killed by railguns with over 3000 damage a shot, they don't have any defense! The reason railguns are so easy to use is because you can abuse the redline AND use them as shotguns to destroy everything with ease.
Railguns need to have a fixed area of rotation (redesign the turret to be locked to a small angle of movement to allow the use of an insanely powerful gun like the railgun) like tank destroyers or nerfed through DPS, turn speed and heat build up. They should always be a threat to all vehicles, but they should be used in the proper caldari manner AND have a drawback to spamming shots in cqc.
Because racism is realism
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KING CHECKMATE
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
3785
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Posted - 2014.01.20 00:00:00 -
[34] - Quote
gbghg wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:gbghg wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:3 shot?
My ADS gets one-shotted by proto forges. QQ more. Your obviously doing it wrong since i cant 1HKO a DS with my Breach Fg , Proto level, Prof 5 and 2 complex dam mods. hitting them is required checkmate. Sarcasm is of no use here since:GÖª It does not help the thread GÖª It does not make you sound ''witty'' nor ''smart'' GÖª Its pretty obvious im talking about a HIT. Now if i have to actually write whats OBVIOUS...well... i have nothing else to say. the intention was to add some humour to lighten the thread up a tad, and seriously if thats the case your clearly hitting them when the hardeners are on, unless incubus's can now be bricked tanked to stupid levels.
Your intention was good, execution not so much.
Im telling you what ive seen.
NOTE: im not talking SPECIFICALLY about Incubus.
GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
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Brynjar Reko
Providence Guard
Templis CALSF
41
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Posted - 2014.01.20 00:28:00 -
[35] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:I understand the issue but its a railgun, the slug would travel about 3 miles before drop off so stop being ridiculous. An ROF nerf would be better or lower the shots before overheat by one.
Actually, air resistance figures for something at that speed are INCREDIBLE even for something tiny, any payload would disintigrate in atmosphere pretty quickly. To be clear I'm arguing that we should balance around gameplay rather than dust players' grasp of sci-fi physics.
I'd love to see ADS become a serious gameplay component, and tanks being relevant at ranges less than rail snipe range would be fun. |
Eurydice Itzhak
Providence Guard
Templis CALSF
361
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Posted - 2014.01.20 10:19:00 -
[36] - Quote
Alpha 443-6732 wrote:Eurydice Itzhak wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:I understand the issue but its a railgun, the slu g would travel about 3 miles before drop off so stop being ridiculous. An ROF nerf would be better or lower the shots before overheat by one. People calling for a rof nerf make me laugh.It can output at well over 3k a shot. Even if it overheated with 1 shot its still absolutely ridiculous. What, because it doesn't fit with your ASS dropship agenda? Also not related to the issue, but if you are getting killed by railguns with over 3000 damage a shot, they don't have any defense! The reason railguns are so easy to use is because you can abuse the redline AND use them as shotguns to destroy everything with ease. Railguns need to have a fixed area of rotation (redesign the turret to be locked to a small angle of movement to allow the use of an insanely powerful gun like the railgun) like tank destroyers or nerfed through DPS, turn speed and heat build up. They should always be a threat to all vehicles, but they should be used in the proper caldari manner AND have a drawback to spamming shots in cqc.
Oooh alpha. I remember when we were in the same corp :P
If you'd recall from our playtime i run caldari tanks 90% of the time. I have no dropship agenda. I hate rail turrets for being too good. And even with triple dmods I still have two lows for plates with plenty of tank.
I have nothing against your idea for rail turrets except that would require Ccp to put in effort which makes it extremely unlikely to happen. |
Eurydice Itzhak
Providence Guard
Templis CALSF
361
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Posted - 2014.01.20 10:24:00 -
[37] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:3 shot?
My ADS gets one-shotted by proto forges. QQ more. Your obviously doing it wrong since i cant 1HKO a DS with my Breach Fg , Proto level, Prof 5 and 2 complex dam mods.
You're right in that you cant one shot a ds unless its naked with a forge (I'm pretty sure at any rate)
But you must be fookan bad. Who uses a breach to shoot at dropships? Two from an ias would down any dropship and would fire off faster than your breach.
Baddies Gunna bad though. |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1443
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Posted - 2014.01.20 10:28:00 -
[38] - Quote
Lock the aiming reticle in place when ever the railgun is charging up. Power is being drawn from the rotational servos to power the gun, so it can't aim while charging. This injects a bit more skill into railguns. Fixed.
/thread
Yours Truly,
Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
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Eurydice Itzhak
Providence Guard
Templis CALSF
361
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Posted - 2014.01.20 10:36:00 -
[39] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Lock the aiming reticle in place when ever the railgun is charging up. Power is being drawn from the rotational servos to power the gun, so it can't aim while charging. This injects a bit more skill into railguns. Fixed.
/thread
Nerfs it in cqc, +10 points.
Nerfs it for infantry sniping, +3 point.
Nerfs it against dropships reacting to being shot, +3 points.
Leaves it to do 3k damage to any dropship who isn't reacting to something he hasn't seen yet. -50 points from hufflepuff.
(The tank in me is fine with it. The part of me that wants to use/see lavs and dropships again is unhappy) |
steadyhand amarr
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
2168
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 10:42:00 -
[40] - Quote
This is not CoD face the fact AV is designed to kill vehicles. I simply take this whiny QQ as the guns working as intented. Its not CCPs fault your using the verc incorrectly
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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Eurydice Itzhak
Providence Guard
Templis CALSF
361
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 10:50:00 -
[41] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:This is not CoD face the fact AV is designed to kill vehicles. I simply take this whiny QQ as the guns working as intented. Its not CCPs fault your using the verc incorrectly
I...
What?
Please read the op or one of the many other posts in here and then respond to it.
Babbling about nothing confuses me :( |
Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
536
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 10:52:00 -
[42] - Quote
Brynjar Reko wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:I understand the issue but its a railgun, the slug would travel about 3 miles before drop off so stop being ridiculous. An ROF nerf would be better or lower the shots before overheat by one. Actually, air resistance figures for something at that speed are INCREDIBLE even for something tiny, any payload would disintigrate in atmosphere pretty quickly. To be clear I'm arguing that we should balance around gameplay rather than dust players' grasp of sci-fi physics. I'd love to see ADS become a serious gameplay component, and tanks being relevant at ranges less than rail snipe range would be fun.
This would be the most logical and best lore answer to limiting their range. Even explains why in Eve you have an incredibly extended range.
This added in with a nerf to rof and we are good. |
Eurydice Itzhak
Providence Guard
Templis CALSF
361
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 11:14:00 -
[43] - Quote
Galvan Nized wrote:Brynjar Reko wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:I understand the issue but its a railgun, the slug would travel about 3 miles before drop off so stop being ridiculous. An ROF nerf would be better or lower the shots before overheat by one. Actually, air resistance figures for something at that speed are INCREDIBLE even for something tiny, any payload would disintigrate in atmosphere pretty quickly. To be clear I'm arguing that we should balance around gameplay rather than dust players' grasp of sci-fi physics. I'd love to see ADS become a serious gameplay component, and tanks being relevant at ranges less than rail snipe range would be fun. This would be the most logical and best lore answer to limiting their range. Even explains why in Eve you have an incredibly extended range. This added in with a nerf to rof and we are good.
rof nerf only helps havs. Dropships and lavs still screwed. It needs more than that. Small range nerf with tiny elevation/depression nerf would be my thoughts to go along with your idea.
(Depression only would apply to gallente. Caldari already have inherit depression nerf.) |
Horizen Kenpachi
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
101
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Posted - 2014.01.20 12:03:00 -
[44] - Quote
gbghg wrote:Eurydice Itzhak wrote:richiesutie 2 wrote:You must of seen some really shet pilots. Best I've gone this builds is 47/1 with other dedicated pilots going similar.
10-15 kills jezz 10 to 15 is is if im running a dropship or lav. If im in a missile tank they generally get less. If im in a rail tank they generall never leave the ground. Why have i never seen these legendary pilots who get 50 kills? cause they only ever happen in matches where the enemy team have no competent av or any at all, hence boasting of the amount of kills you get in them is like boasting about your killstreak in a singleplayer game on the easiest difficulty. 10-15 is a respectable killcount in matches with active and competent av, and 20+ is actually impressive.
Agreed
Hit me with your nerf bat.
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Scheneighnay McBob
Learning Coalition College
3651
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:37:00 -
[45] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:3 shot?
My ADS gets one-shotted by proto forges. What is your fitting and is this during hardener cool down?
Yes, the hardener is on cooldown, but I'm not going to float around for 5 minutes before I ever want to go to low altitude.
I have a python with an enhanced shield extender, enhanced or basic hardener, enhanced afterburner, and I have no clue what the low slot (slots?) is
We used to have a time machine
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Harpyja
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
1126
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 23:55:00 -
[46] - Quote
Balance can be achieved very easily. Reduce railgun damage output to balance the railgun. Add in fighters to counter ADS.
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Lol true. But rails do have a purpose so I would let them stay, just fix them a bit. Lower the optimal range to around 350-400m, drop-off being 450-500 at 20% effectiveness. Our maps are way too small to have a perfectly accurate, 600m, rapid-fire, high damage artillery weapon. Something has to give. I'd also like a slight RoF buff. Damage, elevation, rotation-speed, and fitting would be fine at this point.
No, rails should encourage long range sniping and become ineffective and inferior to missile turrets at close range (missile tank should beat rail tank most of the time in CQC; right now it's the opposite).
Their damage needs to be toned down slightly, fire interval increased, and heat cost greatly increased. Overheating simply doesn't become a balancing factor when almost everything dies before overheat. And it should take more player skill than charging at an enemy tank 100m away while holding R1.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
894
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Posted - 2014.01.21 00:07:00 -
[47] - Quote
To be honest the real problem with rail gun tanks and turrets is that when they see an ADS they get their double or triple damage modded redline railgun tank to take them out.
The before mentioned tactic has no drawbacks or risk due to positioning and just plainly getting behind cover if hit. These people put no isk at risk when they redline rail tank, they cannot be destroyed easily and because of their safety they can put double or triple damage mods to wreak havoc on a dropship that is on average 100k more expensive than it's tank counterpart.
If I can have my tanking buddies destroy a railgun tank, then it's no problem. It's when they can kill anything on the map without risk that a problem is created. I'm pretty sure that railgun tanks would not be going into battle triple or double damage modded if they knew there was a possibility of death unless they created an inexpensive suicide fit.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
For every niche there is a Rifle
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NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
39
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Posted - 2014.01.21 01:52:00 -
[48] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:3 shot?
My ADS gets one-shotted by proto forges. What is your fitting and is this during hardener cool down? Yes, the hardener is on cooldown, but I'm not going to float around for 5 minutes before I ever want to go to low altitude. I have a python with an enhanced shield extender, enhanced or basic hardener, enhanced afterburner, and I have no clue what the low slot (slots?) is
adv heavy extender
proto booster
proto hardener
proto pg mod
at turret
cant use the booster to avoid getting 2 shotted |
ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
88
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Posted - 2014.01.21 02:06:00 -
[49] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Lock the aiming reticle in place when ever the railgun is charging up. Power is being drawn from the rotational servos to power the gun, so it can't aim while charging. This injects a bit more skill into railguns. Fixed.
/thread
I have shot at that gallente ADS before with a rail turret. I do not know what he had fit, all I know is the first shot took his shields, he turned on his hardener, I then proceded to put another 3 rail rounds into him and he just casually drifted behind a building.
Granted not all pilots fit like that but that's player choice! Tankers these days think fitting damage mods is the be all and end all of rail tanking. I fit for tank with 0 damage mods and beat these so called glass cannons in one on one rail combat in my maddy.
Ok so I guess I must consider than damage mod stacked rail tanks are going to be doing more damage, so then is the problem not too much damage when using lots of damage mods? Then also I point back to the red line issues. If you fly high up, and over towards that enemy tanks position, assuming you were not to be red line counted out, you can follow him anywhere he goes with immunity. Once you are above that rail tank what can he do?
I try to position up tall hills waiting for the ADS to mistakenly go back into my narrow firing arc now pointing in the sky but it generally fails.
Granted red line tanks are a pain, remove the red line and I would think ADS would be smashing tanks or at the very least making them tuck tail and run for what ever cover they can see, licking their wounds. |
Eurydice Itzhak
Providence Guard
Templis CALSF
367
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 05:06:00 -
[50] - Quote
ANON Cerberus wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:Lock the aiming reticle in place when ever the railgun is charging up. Power is being drawn from the rotational servos to power the gun, so it can't aim while charging. This injects a bit more skill into railguns. Fixed.
/thread I have shot at that gallente ADS before with a rail turret. I do not know what he had fit, all I know is the first shot took his shields, he turned on his hardener, I then proceded to put another 3 rail rounds into him and he just casually drifted behind a building. Granted not all pilots fit like that but that's player choice! Tankers these days think fitting damage mods is the be all and end all of rail tanking. I fit for tank with 0 damage mods and beat these so called glass cannons in one on one rail combat in my maddy. Ok so I guess I must consider than damage mod stacked rail tanks are going to be doing more damage, so then is the problem not too much damage when using lots of damage mods? Then also I point back to the red line issues. If you fly high up, and over towards that enemy tanks position, assuming you were not to be red line counted out, you can follow him anywhere he goes with immunity. Once you are above that rail tank what can he do? I try to position up tall hills waiting for the ADS to mistakenly go back into my narrow firing arc now pointing in the sky but it generally fails. Granted red line tanks are a pain, remove the red line and I would think ADS would be smashing tanks or at the very least making them tuck tail and run for what ever cover they can see, licking their wounds.
Necrobumping but I didn't notice this post.
You see if you HIT with those rail shots, he would have died.
You inexperience leads you to miss, which is understandable. You will get used to it very quickly im sure.
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Lorhak Gannarsein
1269
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Posted - 2014.01.22 05:32:00 -
[51] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:To be honest the real problem with rail gun tanks and turrets is that when they see an ADS they get their double or triple damage modded redline railgun tank to take them out.
The before mentioned tactic has no drawbacks or risk due to positioning and just plainly getting behind cover if hit. These people put no isk at risk when they redline rail tank, they cannot be destroyed easily and because of their safety they can put double or triple damage mods to wreak havoc on a dropship that is on average 100k more expensive than it's tank counterpart.
If I can have my tanking buddies destroy a railgun tank, then it's no problem. It's when they can kill anything on the map without risk that a problem is created. I'm pretty sure that railgun tanks would not be going into battle triple or double damage modded if they knew there was a possibility of death unless they created an inexpensive suicide fit.
So remove active mod stacking. This includes hardeners.
Problem solved.
ADSes can live. LAVs can live. Redline sniping isn't as devastating.
AV is relevant.
Eurydice Itzhak wrote:Necrobumping but I didn't notice this post.
You see if you HIT with those rail shots, he would have died.
You inexperience leads you to miss, which is understandable. You will get used to it very quickly im sure.
Wow, you're a douche.
Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters.
Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
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Eurydice Itzhak
Providence Guard
Templis CALSF
367
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 06:09:00 -
[52] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:XxGhazbaranxX wrote:To be honest the real problem with rail gun tanks and turrets is that when they see an ADS they get their double or triple damage modded redline railgun tank to take them out.
The before mentioned tactic has no drawbacks or risk due to positioning and just plainly getting behind cover if hit. These people put no isk at risk when they redline rail tank, they cannot be destroyed easily and because of their safety they can put double or triple damage mods to wreak havoc on a dropship that is on average 100k more expensive than it's tank counterpart.
If I can have my tanking buddies destroy a railgun tank, then it's no problem. It's when they can kill anything on the map without risk that a problem is created. I'm pretty sure that railgun tanks would not be going into battle triple or double damage modded if they knew there was a possibility of death unless they created an inexpensive suicide fit. So remove active mod stacking. This includes hardeners. Problem solved. ADSes can live. LAVs can live. Redline sniping isn't as devastating. AV is relevant. Eurydice Itzhak wrote:Necrobumping but I didn't notice this post.
You see if you HIT with those rail shots, he would have died.
You inexperience leads you to miss, which is understandable. You will get used to it very quickly im sure.
Wow, you're a douche.
Proto rail with no Dmod still two/three shots any dropship. nothing has changed. same thing for any tank (if theyre hit without hardeners)
I'm a douche but it was uncalled for with that post. He said himself hes inexperienced. Theres next to no instances of any dropship ever surviving 5 shots. I'm not entirely sure with any setup that its even possible. |
Lonewolf Heavy
ROGUE SPADES
45
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Posted - 2014.01.22 06:15:00 -
[53] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:"Without RDVs assault dropships would go unchecked!"
Not going to lie, pre 1.7 I think I died more times in my python getting nailed by an RDV which then dropped off its vehicle 100m away from where it killed me, then I died to actually getting shot down (worse loss i had in 1 day as a python pilot 100mil 90% deaths from RDVs)
Blueberries are delicious and an essential part of my diet ;)
Commando/Heavy
Willing to PC for anyone for a low price
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Lorhak Gannarsein
1272
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Posted - 2014.01.22 06:24:00 -
[54] - Quote
Eurydice Itzhak wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:XxGhazbaranxX wrote:To be honest the real problem with rail gun tanks and turrets is that when they see an ADS they get their double or triple damage modded redline railgun tank to take them out.
The before mentioned tactic has no drawbacks or risk due to positioning and just plainly getting behind cover if hit. These people put no isk at risk when they redline rail tank, they cannot be destroyed easily and because of their safety they can put double or triple damage mods to wreak havoc on a dropship that is on average 100k more expensive than it's tank counterpart.
If I can have my tanking buddies destroy a railgun tank, then it's no problem. It's when they can kill anything on the map without risk that a problem is created. I'm pretty sure that railgun tanks would not be going into battle triple or double damage modded if they knew there was a possibility of death unless they created an inexpensive suicide fit. So remove active mod stacking. This includes hardeners. Problem solved. ADSes can live. LAVs can live. Redline sniping isn't as devastating. AV is relevant. Eurydice Itzhak wrote:Necrobumping but I didn't notice this post.
You see if you HIT with those rail shots, he would have died.
You inexperience leads you to miss, which is understandable. You will get used to it very quickly im sure.
Wow, you're a douche. Proto rail with no Dmod still two/three shots any dropship. nothing has changed. same thing for any tank (if theyre hit without hardeners) I'm a douche but it was uncalled for with that post. He said himself hes inexperienced. Theres next to no instances of any dropship ever surviving 5 shots. I'm not entirely sure with any setup that its even possible.
I appreciate that, but proto rail (and blaster too, actually, and missile) eats everything inside five shots (or rapidly, rather), and a missile doesn't necessarily need a damage mod to butcher tanks.
I think that the problem is more to do with being unable to shoot back than any unreasonably poor life expectancy, after all, vehicle combat is far shorter than it was previously. Once I'd spend thirty seconds destroying a tank, from first shots fired, up to a full minute, just beating through hardeners. Now, no matter what I use, things die rapidly.
I don't think it's reasonable to give ADSes an inflated EHP pool either; consider the Enforcer hulls for an example. Were they left in the game, their price would be dramatically higher than the ADS, and unlike the ADS, their survivability was lower than the base hull.
And I don't actually have a problem with railgun performance at the moment, with MLT HAV performance what it is. Were it nerfed, there'd be no efficient counter to the tank spam.
And my comment was more to do with the fact that it was heavily implied that he hit with all four shots. And it was presumably an MLT rail.
Look, in the end I'm not a pilot. But I've found that the only infantry counter to a DS is a forge, and he pilots who it's worth bothering attacking don't die to those very readily.
The forge is very effective against tanks, but the only counter that's comparatively effective is the rail gun. I imagine that synched shots from forges would also work, but that adds rather more issues, particularly considering that it's easier to kill a tank with a forge.
I use a prof 3 2x complex modded Ishukone for forging, by the way: it usually takes a third shot, by which point the ADS is longn gone.
Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters.
Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
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8213
0uter.Heaven
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
1435
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 06:28:00 -
[55] - Quote
Rails need to be the way they are to deal with other tanks. They're anti-vehicle. Without them, all vehicles would run wild. Dropships really have only 1 counter; that is rail turrets. It sounds more like typical vehicle users simply wanting nothing that can kill them. Give derpships their own special modules(like afterburner) like a 100% shield hardener for 7 seconds w/ a 70 second cooldown.
Fish in a bucket!
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1st Lieutenant Tiberius
0uter.Heaven
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
900
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Posted - 2014.01.22 06:30:00 -
[56] - Quote
I don't care that you can 2 shot me, I care that you hide in a redline; unreachable and unkillable regardless of my skill in piloting and firing my turret.
Thats my problem
The Sinwarden
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Lorhak Gannarsein
1272
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Posted - 2014.01.22 07:01:00 -
[57] - Quote
1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote:I don't care that you can 2 shot me, I care that you hide in a redline; unreachable and unkillable regardless of my skill in piloting and firing my turret.
Thats my problem
This.
I don't like that I can hit you for 3600 damage, though, or anyone else, for that matter. That's ridiculous anyway.
Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters.
Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
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darkiller240
WarRavens Auxiliaries
League of Infamy
293
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Posted - 2014.01.22 07:07:00 -
[58] - Quote
have you ever been hit by a pro rail cannon with 2 damage mods
even tanks get insta-killed
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
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Lorhak Gannarsein
1274
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Posted - 2014.01.22 10:32:00 -
[59] - Quote
darkiller240 wrote:have you ever been hit by a pro rail cannon with 2 damage mods
even tanks get insta-killed
I like to hit people in the crit zone with three.
Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters.
Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
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Pvt Numnutz
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
Legacy Rising
668
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Posted - 2014.01.22 11:03:00 -
[60] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:
RAil Turrets STAY and they are FINE.
DS pilots are like all vehicle users here in the forums.
Salty QQers that want everything handed to them.
AND Hate having counters.
As it is, only Rail turrets AND Forge guns work vs DS and you want one of them removed? or Nerfed?
HTFU scrubs.....
Saying harden the **** up to dropship pilots lol except for maybe the scout we have the worst profession in the game, you loose all your isk, hardly any fan mail, and blues have no idea what you are doing or how to use a dropship. Not to mention its the hardest thing to do in dust bar none.
Dropship pilots aren't like tank drivers, dropships are designed around teamwork.
We aren't asking for a handout, just a hand.
We hate loosing our dropships to bs one hit kills, or two hits in a second before we can even activate mods.
Swarms in groups, forge guns, rail tanks, missile tanks, blaster tanks, rail installations, missile installations, blaster installations, suicide dropships and rdvs are all effective counters. We want one of the bs install kill counters to be a little more fair.
Try flying a dropship bro |
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