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knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 815	Posted - 2014.01.15 02:31:00 - [1] - Quote remove the sidearm slot from scouts. i heard from some people that you said you were "thinking about it" were not that much of a threat compared to others especially if we didn't have a side-arm. our side-arm is our second best friend (sometimes first) and we would be a lot more defenseless and weaker than we already are and whats the point in removing side arms if we like using scout weapons like KN's and flaylocks , it just wouldn't make sense in doing this Trust the rust In Rust We Trust Vhreokor Warrior jack of all trades winmatar specialist master dual tanker
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 2921	Posted - 2014.01.15 02:35:00 - [2] - Quote I say give scouts 2 equipment slots, keep everything else the same and call it a buff. Commando 6 // A.R.C Commander // D-Uni instructor

CCP Saberwing C C P C C P Alliance 906	Posted - 2014.01.15 02:41:00 - [3] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: remove the sidearm slot from scouts. i heard from some people that you said you were "thinking about it" The CPM held a discussion with both Remnant and Wolfman yesterday -- there's still a lot of discussion around this point so nothing's confirmed at all. The CPM in fact argued against removing sidearms from scouts - as they believe with the introduction of cloaking - it would be a healthy complement to be able to equip both Nova Knives and another weapon. CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 10001	Posted - 2014.01.15 02:43:00 - [4] - Quote I'm more concerned with the cloaking bonus honestly. It makes it so you have to get into proto to actually benefit from the reduction above logi suits, and it's a direct nerf to lower level scouts since they lose out on their original scout bonus. The reduction to cloak fitting should be inherent to all scout suits, and have nothing to do with how many ranks you have in scouts. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Dropship Pilot
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 504	Posted - 2014.01.15 02:45:00 - [5] - Quote I still think there should be a Covert Ops class (current scout) and Scout class (single weapon, more Intel-based, 1 light weapon, 2 equipments). This way everybody's happy.
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 2857	Posted - 2014.01.15 02:47:00 - [6] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I'm more concerned with the cloaking bonus honestly. It makes it so you have to get into proto to actually benefit from the reduction above logi suits, and it's a direct nerf to lower level scouts since they lose out on their original scout bonus. The reduction to cloak fitting should be inherent to all scout suits, and have nothing to do with how many ranks you have in scouts. You can survive as a scout without a cloak. You could argue that the current skill progression of dampening for the scout suit is actually worse than this new one as currently a new scout can't beat most scanners which leads to certain death. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2011	Posted - 2014.01.15 02:58:00 - [7] - Quote Joel II X wrote: I still think there should be a Covert Ops class (current scout) and Scout class (single weapon, more Intel-based, 1 light weapon, 2 equipments). This way everybody's happy. I like this... A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
Scout Registry 526	Posted - 2014.01.15 03:03:00 - [8] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: knight guard fury wrote: remove the sidearm slot from scouts. i heard from some people that you said you were "thinking about it" The CPM held a discussion with both Remnant and Wolfman yesterday -- there's still a lot of discussion around this point so nothing's confirmed at all. The CPM in fact argued against removing sidearms from scouts - as they believe with the introduction of cloaking - it would be a healthy complement to be able to equip both Nova Knives and another weapon. Thanks for the update, CCP_Saberwing. This is excellent news. o7 scouts say no to quid pro quo
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 22	Posted - 2014.01.15 03:15:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: knight guard fury wrote: remove the sidearm slot from scouts. i heard from some people that you said you were "thinking about it" The CPM held a discussion with both Remnant and Wolfman yesterday -- there's still a lot of discussion around this point so nothing's confirmed at all. The CPM in fact argued against removing sidearms from scouts - as they believe with the introduction of cloaking - it would be a healthy complement to be able to equip both Nova Knives and another weapon. In total agreement. I hope you don't remove the scouts side arm. They honestly don't need the extra nerf. Lets see how cloaking turns out first.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5098	Posted - 2014.01.15 03:33:00 - [10] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: knight guard fury wrote: remove the sidearm slot from scouts. i heard from some people that you said you were "thinking about it" The CPM held a discussion with both Remnant and Wolfman yesterday -- there's still a lot of discussion around this point so nothing's confirmed at all. The CPM in fact argued against removing sidearms from scouts - as they believe with the introduction of cloaking - it would be a healthy complement to be able to equip both Nova Knives and another weapon. The part you left out is they are now considering removing the grenade instead, which would be even worse. Why do scouts need to lose anything to gain the cloak (and thus second equipment)? I thought the whole point of adding the cloak was because you needed to make scouts better, so why do they need to trade anything? ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open

Aeon Amadi Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4619	Posted - 2014.01.15 03:33:00 - [11] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: knight guard fury wrote: remove the sidearm slot from scouts. i heard from some people that you said you were "thinking about it" The CPM held a discussion with both Remnant and Wolfman yesterday -- there's still a lot of discussion around this point so nothing's confirmed at all. The CPM in fact argued against removing sidearms from scouts - as they believe with the introduction of cloaking - it would be a healthy complement to be able to equip both Nova Knives and another weapon. Proof the CPM listens. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1581	Posted - 2014.01.15 03:37:00 - [12] - Quote I still say you either make 2 races have the type 2s, and 2 "regular" scouts, or have both for every race. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor! Forum Warrior level 1
Aeon Amadi Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4620	Posted - 2014.01.15 03:44:00 - [13] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: I still say you either make 2 races have the type 2s, and 2 have "regular" scouts, or have both for every race. I don't see a reason for it. Just adding more suits that need to be balanced out. Would give us 32 scouts if you include all races and all tiers. I don't think anyone wants to spend such a large amount of time trying to ticker with them all until they're in the right place Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
GET ATMESON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 227	Posted - 2014.01.15 03:48:00 - [14] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: knight guard fury wrote: remove the sidearm slot from scouts. i heard from some people that you said you were "thinking about it" The CPM held a discussion with both Remnant and Wolfman yesterday -- there's still a lot of discussion around this point so nothing's confirmed at all. The CPM in fact argued against removing sidearms from scouts - as they believe with the introduction of cloaking - it would be a healthy complement to be able to equip both Nova Knives and another weapon. You know more and more people are really starting to like CCP for these "blue tags" its nice to post on the "serous" forums. Thanks for putting in some input into whats going on. I think this little updates are what people having been asking for. Its better then just being in the dark of whats going on. Open Beta Fed 16th 2013. Scout fix + Heavy suits + Heavy guns = soonGäó
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1582	Posted - 2014.01.15 03:49:00 - [15] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: I still say you either make 2 races have the type 2s, and 2 have "regular" scouts, or have both for every race. I don't see a reason for it. Just adding more suits that need to be balanced out. Would give us 32 scouts if you include all races and all tiers. I don't think anyone wants to spend such a large amount of time trying to ticker with them all until they're in the right place Fair enough, but how about going half and half racially, collecting data and seeing which scout type "wins" (by various metrics)? "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor! Forum Warrior level 1
Outer Raven Capital Acquisitions LLC Public Disorder. 111	Posted - 2014.01.15 04:28:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: knight guard fury wrote: remove the sidearm slot from scouts. i heard from some people that you said you were "thinking about it" The CPM held a discussion with both Remnant and Wolfman yesterday -- there's still a lot of discussion around this point so nothing's confirmed at all. The CPM in fact argued against removing sidearms from scouts - as they believe with the introduction of cloaking - it would be a healthy complement to be able to equip both Nova Knives and another weapon. I agree with this sentiment. +2 ___-öGûêGûêGêƒ________________ GûêGûêGûêGòÜGûêa»½GòáGûê Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ GûÆ PEW ¯¯GùÑGò¥GûêGûêGùñ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Ivy Zalinto Lo-Tech Solutions Ltd 248	Posted - 2014.01.15 04:34:00 - [17] - Quote well if they remove the sidearm slot ill still be running a pistol...just have to not carry my plasma cannon anymore v.v Dedicated Stealth Scout. Scout instructor; Learning Coalition Scrambler Pistol dedication
Jotun Izalaru Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 39	Posted - 2014.01.15 04:42:00 - [18] - Quote Joel II X wrote: I still think there should be a Covert Ops class (current scout) and Scout class (single weapon, more Intel-based, 1 light weapon, 2 equipments). This way everybody's happy. No, because current Scouts now still need that extra equipment. Scouts have needed it since May. Scouts need to get the extra equipment, and then need to be carefully buffed and balanced around whatever everything else gets done in 1.8, without relying on the cloak to do it.
Gelhad Thremyr Quebec United 8	Posted - 2014.01.15 04:46:00 - [19] - Quote You should implement mutable weapon slots , assault CAN get light plus side arms, scouts can have light or two side arms. It would pav+¬ the way to dual pistols, would not be that hard as +á game programmer myself,just sayin....
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6438	Posted - 2014.01.15 04:53:00 - [20] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: knight guard fury wrote: remove the sidearm slot from scouts. i heard from some people that you said you were "thinking about it" The CPM held a discussion with both Remnant and Wolfman yesterday -- there's still a lot of discussion around this point so nothing's confirmed at all. The CPM in fact argued against removing sidearms from scouts - as they believe with the introduction of cloaking - it would be a healthy complement to be able to equip both Nova Knives and another weapon. The part you left out is they are now considering removing the grenade instead, which would be even worse. Why do scouts need to lose anything to gain the cloak (and thus second equipment)? I thought the whole point of adding the cloak was because you needed to make scouts better, so why do they need to trade anything? Where was this posted? I didn't see anything about removing grenade slots. Link please? OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*


CCP Saberwing C C P C C P Alliance 931	Posted - 2014.01.15 05:09:00 - [21] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Where was this posted? I didn't see anything about removing grenade slots. Link please? I'm not sure where/if this was publicly posted - the conversation only took place yesterday in a CPM meeting with the Design team. :) CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian

Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6439	Posted - 2014.01.15 05:13:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Where was this posted? I didn't see anything about removing grenade slots. Link please? I'm not sure where/if this was publicly posted - the conversation only took place yesterday in a CPM meeting with the Design team. :) OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1990	Posted - 2014.01.15 05:15:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: knight guard fury wrote: remove the sidearm slot from scouts. i heard from some people that you said you were "thinking about it" The CPM held a discussion with both Remnant and Wolfman yesterday -- there's still a lot of discussion around this point so nothing's confirmed at all. The CPM in fact argued against removing sidearms from scouts - as they believe with the introduction of cloaking - it would be a healthy complement to be able to equip both Nova Knives and another weapon. Yay! "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12093	Posted - 2014.01.15 05:34:00 - [24] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: knight guard fury wrote: remove the sidearm slot from scouts. i heard from some people that you said you were "thinking about it" The CPM held a discussion with both Remnant and Wolfman yesterday -- there's still a lot of discussion around this point so nothing's confirmed at all. The CPM in fact argued against removing sidearms from scouts - as they believe with the introduction of cloaking - it would be a healthy complement to be able to equip both Nova Knives and another weapon. The part you left out is they are now considering removing the grenade instead, which would be even worse. Why do scouts need to lose anything to gain the cloak (and thus second equipment)? I thought the whole point of adding the cloak was because you needed to make scouts better, so why do they need to trade anything? I did not state anything about 'the way things are' when it came to scouts, I am not that totally irresponsible. I asked the scouts over on the board on their thoughts about if it came down to trading 'what if' grenade slot instead? It was met with equally valuable opinions (I do not go by numbers but by logic) Since then I backed off that option as the argument for grenades where equally useful in the advent just as useful as the flux grenades appeared in the future and pushing for just adding an equipment slot just for the heck of it at no trade. There was a reason why it was time critical statement then the other day on the board. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5109	Posted - 2014.01.15 05:40:00 - [25] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: knight guard fury wrote: remove the sidearm slot from scouts. i heard from some people that you said you were "thinking about it" The CPM held a discussion with both Remnant and Wolfman yesterday -- there's still a lot of discussion around this point so nothing's confirmed at all. The CPM in fact argued against removing sidearms from scouts - as they believe with the introduction of cloaking - it would be a healthy complement to be able to equip both Nova Knives and another weapon. The part you left out is they are now considering removing the grenade instead, which would be even worse. Why do scouts need to lose anything to gain the cloak (and thus second equipment)? I thought the whole point of adding the cloak was because you needed to make scouts better, so why do they need to trade anything? I did not state anything about 'the way things are' when it came to scouts, I am not that totally irresponsible. I asked the scouts over on the board on their thoughts about if it came down to trading 'what if' grenade slot instead? It was met with equally valuable opinions (I do not go by numbers but by logic) Since then I backed off that option as the argument for grenades where equally useful in the advent just as useful as the flux grenades appeared in the future and pushing for just adding an equipment slot just for the heck of it at no trade. There was a reason why it was time critical statement then the other day on the board. I never said anything about you IWS, and I never said that the grenade slot is now getting taken away, I said it was being considered. And truthfully, that doesn't mean a whole lot since a lot of things get considered. But yes, I applaud you for taking a firm stance on this issue. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aeon Amadi Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4622	Posted - 2014.01.15 05:46:00 - [26] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: I still say you either make 2 races have the type 2s, and 2 have "regular" scouts, or have both for every race. I don't see a reason for it. Just adding more suits that need to be balanced out. Would give us 32 scouts if you include all races and all tiers. I don't think anyone wants to spend such a large amount of time trying to ticker with them all until they're in the right place Fair enough, but how about going half and half racially, collecting data and seeing which scout type "wins" (by various metrics)? Because there are more variables tied with each race than that. A suit "winning" could be for any number of reasons - higher base shields/armor, more low/high slots, better speed/stamina... There are a plethora of reasons that the suit could perform well against it's racial competitors. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 824	Posted - 2014.01.15 05:53:00 - [27] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: knight guard fury wrote: remove the sidearm slot from scouts. i heard from some people that you said you were "thinking about it" The CPM held a discussion with both Remnant and Wolfman yesterday -- there's still a lot of discussion around this point so nothing's confirmed at all. The CPM in fact argued against removing sidearms from scouts - as they believe with the introduction of cloaking - it would be a healthy complement to be able to equip both Nova Knives and another weapon. Can you guys setup a test server for a week or two when you guys start getting the suit stuff finalized? Even offering a tournament or squad cup on the test server with the new suits so we could do any kind of pre-testing before general population implementation... At least some kind of testing in extreme circumstances on massive re-balancing and content additions, or a plan to setup some way to have a test group. We can talk all day and theory craft on paper, the best way we can work out the massive balance issues that can be adjusted before general implementation. Is testing it out in some kind of extreme controlled competitive environment that can be monitored in-house within a day or two, Like a Tournament or squad cup.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12101	Posted - 2014.01.15 06:17:00 - [28] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: knight guard fury wrote: remove the sidearm slot from scouts. i heard from some people that you said you were "thinking about it" The CPM held a discussion with both Remnant and Wolfman yesterday -- there's still a lot of discussion around this point so nothing's confirmed at all. The CPM in fact argued against removing sidearms from scouts - as they believe with the introduction of cloaking - it would be a healthy complement to be able to equip both Nova Knives and another weapon. The part you left out is they are now considering removing the grenade instead, which would be even worse. Why do scouts need to lose anything to gain the cloak (and thus second equipment)? I thought the whole point of adding the cloak was because you needed to make scouts better, so why do they need to trade anything? I did not state anything about 'the way things are' when it came to scouts, I am not that totally irresponsible. I asked the scouts over on the board on their thoughts about if it came down to trading 'what if' grenade slot instead? It was met with equally valuable opinions (I do not go by numbers but by logic) Since then I backed off that option as the argument for grenades where equally useful in the advent just as useful as the flux grenades appeared in the future and pushing for just adding an equipment slot just for the heck of it at no trade. There was a reason why it was time critical statement then the other day on the board. I never said anything about you IWS, and I never said that the grenade slot is now getting taken away, I said it was being considered. And truthfully, that doesn't mean a whole lot since a lot of things get considered. But yes, I applaud you for taking a firm stance on this issue. No but word of mouth distorts things easily. Send a horse through 50 people and it comes out to be a my little pony voodoo zebra that rhymes every time it talks at the end. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
One Eyed King Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 210	Posted - 2014.01.15 06:27:00 - [29] - Quote I never would have taken IWS as a Brony... Nova knifing scout masochist. I would be a sadist, but CCP won't let me.
Jotun Izalaru Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 39	Posted - 2014.01.15 07:02:00 - [30] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I asked the scouts over on the board on their thoughts about if it came down to trading 'what if' grenade slot instead? It was met with equally valuable opinions (I do not go by numbers but by logic) Since then I backed off that option as the argument for grenades where equally useful in the advent just as useful as the flux grenades appeared in the future and pushing for just adding an equipment slot just for the heck of it at no trade. There was a reason why it was time critical statement then the other day on the board. It was a silly option anyway, as Scouts 'trading' something shouldn't even be on the table.

Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2634	Posted - 2014.01.15 07:06:00 - [31] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Where was this posted? I didn't see anything about removing grenade slots. Link please? I'm not sure where/if this was publicly posted - the conversation only took place yesterday in a CPM meeting with the Design team. :) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1714638#post1714638 Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6440	Posted - 2014.01.15 07:26:00 - [32] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Where was this posted? I didn't see anything about removing grenade slots. Link please? I'm not sure where/if this was publicly posted - the conversation only took place yesterday in a CPM meeting with the Design team. :) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1714638#post1714638 Um... that link is about the sidearm slot, not the grenade slot. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
One Eyed King Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 211	Posted - 2014.01.15 07:31:00 - [33] - Quote I don't know if this was the first mention of it or not, but it certainly was discussed at length in the registry. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1717483#post1717483 Nova knifing scout masochist. I would be a sadist, but CCP won't let me.
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 191	Posted - 2014.01.15 07:53:00 - [34] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Fair enough, but how about going half and half racially, collecting data and seeing which scout type "wins" (by various metrics)? You would end up with another set respec whine threads...
Auris Lionesse SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 55	Posted - 2014.01.15 08:51:00 - [35] - Quote Just make a new scout with a new skin that doesn't have a side arm, call it a saboteur or something. Problem solved.
Heavenly Daughter the Aurum Grinder and Company 293	Posted - 2014.01.15 08:58:00 - [36] - Quote I don't know if this thread is genuine or not but if the sidearms are removed form scouts I think it's a good thing. Logi's have no sidearms because it benefits the logo's in equipment and the odd case who does sacrifices other slots. The same should therefore also apply to scouts, they want speed and manoeuvrability so removing the sidearm or light weapon make a great deal of sense. Remove a weapons from scouts. The Organ Grinder & Co. EVE Heavenly Daughter-Merc Records
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 459	Posted - 2014.01.15 09:06:00 - [37] - Quote Heavenly Daughter wrote: I don't know if this thread is genuine or not but if the sidearms are removed form scouts I think it's a good thing. Logi's have no sidearms because it benefits the logo's in equipment and the odd case who does sacrifices other slots. The same should therefore also apply to scouts, they want speed and manoeuvrability so removing the sidearm or light weapon make a great deal of sense. Remove a weapons from scouts. Hardly, why gimp an already underperforming suit. The speed advantage is not a glorious one (and should the minni Assault lose the siedarm as well? He is also faster) the only advantages a scout currently have are mobility (not speed as i said the difference is not very high) and the lower profile (which is countered by active scanners ). For these two advantages he gives lots HP, CPU, Slots compared to the other frames...
Scout Registry 537	Posted - 2014.01.15 09:50:00 - [38] - Quote @ Maken Tosch The sidearm removal announcement was received not unlike a kick in the pants after a long wait in queue. There was much gnashing of teeth in the Scout Registry. IWS responded to our lamenting with a devil's bargain ... if you had to forfeit something, would you prefer to forfeit ~~your left nut or right nut~~ your sidearm or grenade slot? @ IWS Thanks again for intervening on our behalf. We will continue to hold the line, to say no to quid pro quo, and to wait with fingers crossed for future good news. Come what may, your efforts will not be forgotten. @ Fire, Aeon, Aero, ANON, Raven, Jotun, Korvin Thank you gentlemen for your support. It is good to see that our perspectives are in harmony. @ Joel, Killar, John, Auris Kindly consider that we Scouts are too few in number and the Devs' time is in too short supply to warrant 8+ variations of Scout. We have waited since Uprising 1.0 for the Devs to rebalance two (2) variants. Imagine how long we'd have to wait if a fix were ordered for 8! Adding complexity to the problem only makes a problem more complex. @ Heavenly Most would agree that since Chrome, the Scout has been underpowered and the Logi has been overpowered. Most would agree that the two suits could not be weighed as equal in any build of Uprising. Most would agree that what you are asking for today is akin to further gimping an already gimped suit. scouts say no to quid pro quo
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1051	Posted - 2014.01.15 10:06:00 - [39] - Quote Joel II X wrote: I still think there should be a Covert Ops class (current scout) and Scout class (single weapon, more Intel-based, 1 light weapon, 2 equipments). This way everybody's happy. I agree. why not make the current light frame single weapon 2 equipment slots as the basic intel/scout suit and change the current scout into covert ops with cloaking bonus.
Scout Registry 537	Posted - 2014.01.15 10:12:00 - [40] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Joel II X wrote: I still think there should be a Covert Ops class (current scout) and Scout class (single weapon, more Intel-based, 1 light weapon, 2 equipments). This way everybody's happy. I agree. why not make the current light frame single weapon 2 equipment slots as the basic intel/scout suit and change the current scout into covert ops with cloaking bonus. :: Turns to Scout :: This man has a question for you. Would you prefer to have one decent suit or two watered down suits? :: Turns to McReady :: There's your reason. I'm sorry that you got stabbed. scouts say no to quid pro quo

TheWee BabySeamus Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 86	Posted - 2014.01.15 11:17:00 - [41] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: knight guard fury wrote: remove the sidearm slot from scouts. i heard from some people that you said you were "thinking about it" The CPM held a discussion with both Remnant and Wolfman yesterday -- there's still a lot of discussion around this point so nothing's confirmed at all. The CPM in fact argued against removing sidearms from scouts - as they believe with the introduction of cloaking - it would be a healthy complement to be able to equip both Nova Knives and another weapon. You listen to the CPM?!?!?! since when? also.......................... RACIAL HEAVIES AND SCOUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wee Baby Seamus-------------->DDB Director & #1 Sex chat operator
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 956	Posted - 2014.01.15 11:30:00 - [42] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Where was this posted? I didn't see anything about removing grenade slots. Link please? I'm not sure where/if this was publicly posted - the conversation only took place yesterday in a CPM meeting with the Design team. :) Dunno, but I did suggest it as a potential alternative to loosing your sidearm 2 or 3 days ago. I think most people would rather give up a grenade slot for an additional equipment slot rather than their sidearm. Let me repeat that before I get lambasted over that comment: I think.... Buff passive scans & fix TTK! My Closed Beta Alts - Overlord Ulath, Overlord Bosse, Overlord Zero
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 516	Posted - 2014.01.15 11:34:00 - [43] - Quote Jotun Izalaru wrote: Joel II X wrote: I still think there should be a Covert Ops class (current scout) and Scout class (single weapon, more Intel-based, 1 light weapon, 2 equipments). This way everybody's happy. No, because current Scouts now still need that extra equipment. Scouts have needed it since May. Scouts need to get the extra equipment, and then need to be carefully buffed and balanced around whatever everything else gets done in 1.8, without relying on the cloak to do it. I do fine, currently, without that extra equipment. The reason I gave this was so the two varients could actually do what their supposed to do. If you give them an extra slot, it still won't be balanced, it would just be a a temporary buffer to the realization that you're crazy if you run this suit. I'd prefer a speed buff over an equipment any day,but that's just me. Anyways, I'm thinking that CCP is going to make the scout a combination of Scout and Covert Ops at the moment. Like in the beta how each race had its own suit. If this is true (which it probably is) then I hope it gets split into the two variants so that they can be balanced. Weaker in the sense of slots? Maybe, but they will have different stats according to their role and by the improvement of code of this game.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 516	Posted - 2014.01.15 11:39:00 - [44] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: @ Joel, Killar, John, Auris Kindly consider that we Scouts are too few in number and the Devs' time is in too short supply to warrant 8+ variations of Scout. We have waited since Uprising 1.0 for the Devs to rebalance two (2) variants. Imagine how long we'd have to wait if a fix were ordered for 8! Sometimes, adding complexity to a problem only makes a problem more complex. Fair enough... for now. Still hoping that it gets split, to have a combat scout and an intel scout.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 516	Posted - 2014.01.15 11:43:00 - [45] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Joel II X wrote: I still think there should be a Covert Ops class (current scout) and Scout class (single weapon, more Intel-based, 1 light weapon, 2 equipments). This way everybody's happy. I agree. why not make the current light frame single weapon 2 equipment slots as the basic intel/scout suit and change the current scout into covert ops with cloaking bonus. :: Turns to Scout :: This man has a question for you. Would you prefer to have one decent suit or two watered down suits? :: Turns to McReady :: There's your reason. I'm sorry that you got stabbed. Can't we have 2 decent suits?
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 459	Posted - 2014.01.15 11:47:00 - [46] - Quote Well I would love a covert ops suit maybe based on the black eagle one. But I think the scout need the two equipment slots. We had them in Chrome alongside with a variant with three (and no sidearm). I don't think scouts need to loose ther sidearm for the second equipment. Maybe if we get an additional H/L slot + CPU/PG the removal could somehow justified...
OZAROW Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 1226	Posted - 2014.01.15 11:55:00 - [47] - Quote Why can't the extra equipment slot only hold a cloak an nothing else just like a grenade slot? Why would we have to lose anything if it worked this way the only benifits we would get not running a cloak would be more CPU and pg. Does anyone have a problem with this if it means keeping our gun and grenade? With this drastic of a change a full respec is in order, gun sp, grenade sp all of it, it would change our whole place style , suits weapons an drop suit mods that would have to change with this type of remodeling to our characters it would dramatically change What we have skilled into SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 517	Posted - 2014.01.15 12:00:00 - [48] - Quote OZAROW wrote: Why can't the extra equipment slot only hold a cloak an nothing else just like a grenade slot? Why would we have to lose anything if it worked this way the only benifits we would get not running a cloak would be more CPU and pg. Does anyone have a problem with this if it means keeping our gun and grenade? With this drastic of a change a full respec is in order, gun sp, grenade sp all of it, it would change our whole place style , suits weapons an drop suit mods that would have to change with this type of remodeling to our characters it would dramatically change What we have skilled into You're going to get so much negative comments on this, so I'll put it in friendly terms. Tying one equipment to a suit is very limiting and defeats the purpose of the game. A well-placed Uplink is as beneficial as running a cloak. Everyone wants two equipments to run a cloak and something else so they wouldn't have to sacrifice anything but CPU and PG to have fun with their new toy. That's what's broken, in my opinion.
Scout Registry 539	Posted - 2014.01.15 13:44:00 - [49] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Everyone wants two equipments to run a cloak and something else so they wouldn't have to sacrifice anything but CPU and PG to have fun with their new toy. That's what's broken, in my opinion. I don't think that the above thinking is broken at all. A quick recap ... Scouts were guilty of bullet weaving (taking advantage of bad hit detection) in Chrome. For this sin, we paid steep price. Every aspect of our suit was nerfed. Seriously. Every aspect. The left side of the equation was addressed: Hit detection's fixed. Aim assist is on. Bullet weaving is gone. Speed tanking is dead. The right side of the equation -- however -- remains unaddressed: So Scouts have waited 8 builds for nerf reversal / reduction (a.k.a. Dev Hugs) which has yet to come. Dev Hugs could've been another Hi Slot for Gallente or Lo Slot for Minmatar. Dev Hugs could've been a huge boost to mobility, speed and stamina. Dev Hugs could've been any number or combination of things. But the Devs chose to Hug us with Cloak. It has been decided. The Devs could've built cloak into the Scout Suit; Hugs delivered, equation solved, no debate. The Devs chose against this option. We now have two crowds: The pre-nerf crowd says the Scout should have to trade something valuable for their upcoming Hug. The no-nerf crowd -- which includes Scouts -- says no quid pro quo. You would too in our shoes. scouts say no to quid pro quo
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 462	Posted - 2014.01.15 14:22:00 - [50] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: Joel II X wrote: Everyone wants two equipments to run a cloak and something else so they wouldn't have to sacrifice anything but CPU and PG to have fun with their new toy. That's what's broken, in my opinion. I don't think that the above thinking is broken at all. A quick recap ... Scouts were guilty of bullet weaving (taking advantage of bad hit detection) in Chrome. For this sin, we paid steep price. Every aspect of our suit was nerfed. Seriously. Every aspect. The left side of the equation was addressed: Hit detection's fixed. Aim assist is on. Bullet weaving is gone. Speed tanking is dead. The right side of the equation -- however -- remains unaddressed: So Scouts have waited 8 builds for nerf reversal / reduction (a.k.a. Dev Hugs) which has yet to come. Dev Hugs could've been another Hi Slot for Gallente or Lo Slot for Minmatar. Dev Hugs could've been a huge boost to mobility, speed and stamina. Dev Hugs could've been any number or combination of things. But the Devs chose to Hug us with Cloak. It has been decided. The Devs could've built cloak into the Scout Suit; Hugs delivered, equation solved, no debate. The Devs chose against this option. We now have two crowds: The pre-nerf crowd says the Scout should have to trade something valuable for their upcoming Hug. The no-nerf crowd -- which includes Scouts -- says no quid pro quo. You would too in our shoes: How exactly does CCP expect me to return the hugs if they cut off one of my arms in the process of said hugs. - J0LLY R0G3R (Scout Registry, Page 353, Post 7043) I have to agree and I always feared the "DEV hugs" since CCP anounced them. And I still fear that even with cloaks not much will change for scouts we will still be outplayed by most medium suits as cloaks can be equipped by anyone. Cloaks may be expensive to fit but most suits have more CPU/PG so these suits will still be able to fit cloaks with a similar fitting like scouts all this with more health and more slots....

Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 520	Posted - 2014.01.15 14:25:00 - [51] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: Joel II X wrote: Everyone wants two equipments to run a cloak and something else so they wouldn't have to sacrifice anything but CPU and PG to have fun with their new toy. That's what's broken, in my opinion. I don't think that the above thinking is broken at all. A quick recap ... Scouts were guilty of bullet weaving (taking advantage of bad hit detection) in Chrome. For this sin, we paid steep price. Every aspect of our suit was nerfed. Seriously. Every aspect. The left side of the equation was addressed: Hit detection's fixed. Aim assist is on. Bullet weaving is gone. Speed tanking is dead. The right side of the equation -- however -- remains unaddressed: So Scouts have waited 8 builds for nerf reversal / reduction (a.k.a. Dev Hugs) which has yet to come. Dev Hugs could've been another Hi Slot for Gallente or Lo Slot for Minmatar. Dev Hugs could've been a huge boost to mobility, speed and stamina. Dev Hugs could've been any number or combination of things. But the Devs chose to Hug us with Cloak. It has been decided. The Devs could've built cloak into the Scout Suit; Hugs delivered, equation solved, no debate. The Devs chose against this option. We now have two crowds: The pre-nerf crowd says the Scout should have to trade something valuable for their upcoming Hug. The no-nerf crowd -- which includes Scouts -- says no quid pro quo. You would too in our shoes: How exactly does CCP expect me to return the hugs if they cut off one of my arms in the process of said hugs. - J0LLY R0G3R (Scout Registry, Page 353, Post 7043) Yes, but all scouts who did fine in their suits never found anything wrong with the current layouts. They always said "HTFU and GG". Yes, we got nerfed into oblivion and back, but I don't think giving another equipment is the right choice of dev hugging, as you put it. Think about it. What are the scouts' strengths supposed to be? Speed and stealth for assassinations. Yes, you can cloak. Yes, you can place uplinks. Yes, you can run Nanos. But you don't necessarily need to become a quick, weaker version of the logistics. Scouts need their speed back. Maybe not all of it, yet. Since the game is improving, I think more speed would suffice and be able to compete with hit detection. We shouldn't have to rely on cloaks to get kills (even though it'll be a great equipment). Again, all of this is my opinion, and that's why I think there should be two class specifications (you know, like every other frame?). Edit: I'm a scout, too. Or well, used to be. These new Rifles kicked my ass too many times for me to work my play style. Trying to hang in there
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1562	Posted - 2014.01.15 15:13:00 - [52] - Quote Joel II X wrote: I still think there should be a Covert Ops class (current scout) and Scout class (single weapon, more Intel-based, 1 light weapon, 2 equipments). This way everybody's happy. I will take that. We need to encourage diversity not stifle it a an across the board bonuses. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 463	Posted - 2014.01.15 15:16:00 - [53] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Scout Registry wrote: Joel II X wrote: Everyone wants two equipments to run a cloak and something else so they wouldn't have to sacrifice anything but CPU and PG to have fun with their new toy. That's what's broken, in my opinion. I don't think that the above thinking is broken at all. A quick recap ... Scouts were guilty of bullet weaving (taking advantage of bad hit detection) in Chrome. For this sin, we paid steep price. Every aspect of our suit was nerfed. Seriously. Every aspect. The left side of the equation was addressed: Hit detection's fixed. Aim assist is on. Bullet weaving is gone. Speed tanking is dead. The right side of the equation -- however -- remains unaddressed: So Scouts have waited 8 builds for nerf reversal / reduction (a.k.a. Dev Hugs) which has yet to come. Dev Hugs could've been another Hi Slot for Gallente or Lo Slot for Minmatar. Dev Hugs could've been a huge boost to mobility, speed and stamina. Dev Hugs could've been any number or combination of things. But the Devs chose to Hug us with Cloak. It has been decided. The Devs could've built cloak into the Scout Suit; Hugs delivered, equation solved, no debate. The Devs chose against this option. We now have two crowds: The pre-nerf crowd says the Scout should have to trade something valuable for their upcoming Hug. The no-nerf crowd -- which includes Scouts -- says no quid pro quo. You would too in our shoes: How exactly does CCP expect me to return the hugs if they cut off one of my arms in the process of said hugs. - J0LLY R0G3R (Scout Registry, Page 353, Post 7043) Yes, but all scouts who did fine in their suits never found anything wrong with the current layouts. They always said "HTFU and GG". Yes, we got nerfed into oblivion and back, but I don't think giving another equipment is the right choice of dev hugging, as you put it. Think about it. What are the scouts' strengths supposed to be? Speed and stealth for assassinations. Yes, you can cloak. Yes, you can place uplinks. Yes, you can run Nanos. But you don't necessarily need to become a quick, weaker version of the logistics. Scouts need their speed back. Maybe not all of it, yet. Since the game is improving, I think more speed would suffice and be able to compete with hit detection. We shouldn't have to rely on cloaks to get kills (even though it'll be a great equipment). Again, all of this is my opinion, and that's why I think there should be two class specifications (you know, like every other frame?). Edit: I'm a scout, too. Or well, used to be. These new Rifles kicked my ass too many times for me to work my play style. Trying to hang in there The point is two equipment slots will help to perform exactly that task, currently I am limited I would like to run uplinks and scanners to find safe spots or RE's and Proxies to lay traps for HAV's. I really don't cre that much for the cloaks sure I will test it and see how usefull it is compared to my current5 RE build. Regarding beeing fine most well known scouts said there were problems with the suit. Sure in pubs you can compete to some degree even against rifle users but in PC there is simply not that much space for scouts. Most benefits get nullified by active scanners and nearly anything scouts can do, medium frames can do better or at least close to the performance of a scout with more health and slots....
pagl1u M The Rainbow Effect 227	Posted - 2014.01.15 15:26:00 - [54] - Quote An idea: scouts can decide what to lose. They have the sidearm, the grenade and The Secondary equipment slot. But they can use only 2 of these 3 slot. So if they use the grenade and The sidearm the Secondary equipment disappear and they cant use it. They decide the 2 they want to use in every suit and they lose the third slot for that suit I know this is something new but this way they could decide how to play but also they arent buffed too much.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 521	Posted - 2014.01.15 15:31:00 - [55] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Joel II X wrote: Scout Registry wrote: Joel II X wrote: Everyone wants two equipments to run a cloak and something else so they wouldn't have to sacrifice anything but CPU and PG to have fun with their new toy. That's what's broken, in my opinion. I don't think that the above thinking is broken at all. A quick recap ... Scouts were guilty of bullet weaving (taking advantage of bad hit detection) in Chrome. For this sin, we paid steep price. Every aspect of our suit was nerfed. Seriously. Every aspect. The left side of the equation was addressed: Hit detection's fixed. Aim assist is on. Bullet weaving is gone. Speed tanking is dead. The right side of the equation -- however -- remains unaddressed: So Scouts have waited 8 builds for nerf reversal / reduction (a.k.a. Dev Hugs) which has yet to come. Dev Hugs could've been another Hi Slot for Gallente or Lo Slot for Minmatar. Dev Hugs could've been a huge boost to mobility, speed and stamina. Dev Hugs could've been any number or combination of things. But the Devs chose to Hug us with Cloak. It has been decided. The Devs could've built cloak into the Scout Suit; Hugs delivered, equation solved, no debate. The Devs chose against this option. We now have two crowds: The pre-nerf crowd says the Scout should have to trade something valuable for their upcoming Hug. The no-nerf crowd -- which includes Scouts -- says no quid pro quo. You would too in our shoes: How exactly does CCP expect me to return the hugs if they cut off one of my arms in the process of said hugs. - J0LLY R0G3R (Scout Registry, Page 353, Post 7043) Yes, but all scouts who did fine in their suits never found anything wrong with the current layouts. They always said "HTFU and GG". Yes, we got nerfed into oblivion and back, but I don't think giving another equipment is the right choice of dev hugging, as you put it. Think about it. What are the scouts' strengths supposed to be? Speed and stealth for assassinations. Yes, you can cloak. Yes, you can place uplinks. Yes, you can run Nanos. But you don't necessarily need to become a quick, weaker version of the logistics. Scouts need their speed back. Maybe not all of it, yet. Since the game is improving, I think more speed would suffice and be able to compete with hit detection. We shouldn't have to rely on cloaks to get kills (even though it'll be a great equipment). Again, all of this is my opinion, and that's why I think there should be two class specifications (you know, like every other frame?). Edit: I'm a scout, too. Or well, used to be. These new Rifles kicked my ass too many times for me to work my play style. Trying to hang in there The point is two equipment slots will help to perform exactly that task, currently I am limited I would like to run uplinks and scanners to find safe spots or RE's and Proxies to lay traps for HAV's. I really don't cre that much for the cloaks sure I will test it and see how usefull it is compared to my current5 RE build. Regarding beeing fine most well known scouts said there were problems with the suit. Sure in pubs you can compete to some degree even against rifle users but in PC there is simply not that much space for scouts. Most benefits get nullified by active scanners and nearly anything scouts can do, medium frames can do better or at least close to the performance of a scout with more health and slots.... Exactly my point. Don't give scouts something they wouldn't need if they actually performed well in their respective areas. Buff speed and stealth instead of giving another equipment.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 829	Posted - 2014.01.15 16:19:00 - [56] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Heavenly Daughter wrote: I don't know if this thread is genuine or not but if the sidearms are removed form scouts I think it's a good thing. Logi's have no sidearms because it benefits the logo's in equipment and the odd case who does sacrifices other slots. The same should therefore also apply to scouts, they want speed and manoeuvrability so removing the sidearm or light weapon make a great deal of sense. Remove a weapons from scouts. Hardly, why gimp an already underperforming suit. The speed advantage is not a glorious one (and should the minni Assault lose the siedarm as well? He is also faster) the only advantages a scout currently have are mobility (not speed as i said the difference is not very high) and the lower profile (which is countered by active scanners ). For these two advantages he gives lots HP, CPU, Slots compared to the other frames... Seriously how does it gimp the suit? Logistics suit's (Amarr exception) Have been THE slayer suits for 8 months... and they have only ever had one weapon slot. It doesn't ruin your killing potential in anyway. Having the extra equipment slot will improve the utility of a scout which is much more valuable then a secondary weapon incase of an emergency... Being able to run multiple equipment is a FAR FAR better choice for scouts then having an emergency backup weapon. Even fitting the sidearms on already fitting challenged suits can be extremely hard let alone with cloaks coming out... freeing up this extra fitting requirements that are used somewhat rarely compared to main hand weapons would also be good for the class. IMO, All scouts should have built in nova knifes but the whole Nova knife concept in DUST, is just done.... weird.
Jotun Izalaru Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 41	Posted - 2014.01.15 16:30:00 - [57] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Exactly my point. Don't give scouts something they wouldn't need if they actually performed well in their respective areas. Buff speed and stealth instead of giving another equipment. Give the other equipment AND buff stealth and speed was my point. There shouldn't be any kind of tradeoff, the extra equipment is 8 months late, giving an increase to stealth or speed or whatever's decided is what's due in 1.8 I know you don't think we need another equipment but it would increase options for playing as a scout and give us something to make up for the HP loss. We're already logi-lite, there's nothing a scout can do that a minnie logi can't do better except minnie nova knifing.
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 606	Posted - 2014.01.15 16:59:00 - [58] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Heavenly Daughter wrote: I don't know if this thread is genuine or not but if the sidearms are removed form scouts I think it's a good thing. Logi's have no sidearms because it benefits the logo's in equipment and the odd case who does sacrifices other slots. The same should therefore also apply to scouts, they want speed and manoeuvrability so removing the sidearm or light weapon make a great deal of sense. Remove a weapons from scouts. Hardly, why gimp an already underperforming suit. The speed advantage is not a glorious one (and should the minni Assault lose the siedarm as well? He is also faster) the only advantages a scout currently have are mobility (not speed as i said the difference is not very high) and the lower profile (which is countered by active scanners ). For these two advantages he gives lots HP, CPU, Slots compared to the other frames... Seriously how does it gimp the suit? Logistics suit's (Amarr exception) Have been THE slayer suits for 8 months... and they have only ever had one weapon slot. It doesn't ruin your killing potential in anyway. Having the extra equipment slot will improve the utility of a scout which is much more valuable then a secondary weapon incase of an emergency... Being able to run multiple equipment is a FAR FAR better choice for scouts then having an emergency backup weapon. Even fitting the sidearms on already fitting challenged suits can be extremely hard let alone with cloaks coming out... freeing up this extra fitting requirements that are used somewhat rarely compared to main hand weapons would also be good for the class. IMO, All scouts should have built in nova knifes but the whole Nova knife concept in DUST, is just done.... weird. The difference comes in the nature of which weapons are most effective for the logi and scout classes. Logis are very effective with medium and long range weapons (they can stack damage mods etc...) but those same weapons are at least moderately effective in CQC covering all bases. Sidearms on medium suits play a completely different role for them than on scout suits. It's not a backup weapon for "emergencies" but rather a necessary complement to the style of play forced on scouts. The weapons that scouts use (high alpha, ie high and fast initial damage with long cycle times) require very close proximity to really capitalize on being stealthy. Long range and medium range weapons don't kill quickly enough and expose your position very easily. The problem with the high alpha weapons (shotgun and NK) is that they can't do anything but CQC. Any farther than 5 m and the shotgun efficiency drops precipitously. In order to counter some of this and keep some medium range effectiveness (if you get caught in the open or the enemy backpedals) you equip a sidearm. SMG are effective at least out to 15 m (maybe more I don't have the number s right in front of me). So while logis may not need a sidearm slot to accompany their weapons, scouts do need at least the option of having a sidearm to complement their options at range. Also, I can't beleive you would try to compare Logis and scouts on the basis of sidearm slots alone.....I mean really. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so depressing how logis compare to scouts.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 381	Posted - 2014.01.15 17:01:00 - [59] - Quote I haven't used the side-arm slot on my Gallente Scout in a while, on the other hand that's not a reason to remove it. Both sniper- and swarm launcher fits would be made impossible by this change, so it gets a no from me. Just keep CPU/PG low enough so a potent sidearm is a serious sacrifice.
Scout Registry 545	Posted - 2014.01.15 17:20:00 - [60] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Heavenly Daughter wrote: I don't know if this thread is genuine or not but if the sidearms are removed form scouts I think it's a good thing. Logi's have no sidearms because it benefits the logo's in equipment and the odd case who does sacrifices other slots. The same should therefore also apply to scouts, they want speed and manoeuvrability so removing the sidearm or light weapon make a great deal of sense. Remove a weapons from scouts. Hardly, why gimp an already underperforming suit. The speed advantage is not a glorious one (and should the minni Assault lose the siedarm as well? He is also faster) the only advantages a scout currently have are mobility (not speed as i said the difference is not very high) and the lower profile (which is countered by active scanners ). For these two advantages he gives lots HP, CPU, Slots compared to the other frames... Seriously how does it gimp the suit? Logistics suit's (Amarr exception) Have been THE slayer suits for 8 months... and they have only ever had one weapon slot. It doesn't ruin your killing potential in anyway. Having the extra equipment slot will improve the utility of a scout which is much more valuable then a secondary weapon incase of an emergency... Being able to run multiple equipment is a FAR FAR better choice for scouts then having an emergency backup weapon. Even fitting the sidearms on already fitting challenged suits can be extremely hard let alone with cloaks coming out... freeing up this extra fitting requirements that are used somewhat rarely compared to main hand weapons would also be good for the class. IMO, All scouts should have built in nova knifes but the whole Nova knife concept in DUST, is just done.... weird. I've been a Scout every day for the past 29 Million SP. Myself and many others have been waiting for Dev Hugs since Day 1 of Uprising. You are not a Scout. So who the fck are you to tell us what they do and do not need? scouts say no to quid pro quo*

Jake Diesel BIG BAD W0LVES 62	Posted - 2014.01.15 17:22:00 - [61] - Quote One thing I've learned from many fps games. You can have all these great ideas ideas and stats down on paper, but in the end, how these ideas and stats translate on the actual battlefield is an entirely different story. Those KDR whores will try and exploit whatever setup they can get away with and the truth of whether or not what was implemented was severely overpowered. The KDR whores will reveal the truth of it all.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 829	Posted - 2014.01.15 17:31:00 - [62] - Quote Jake Diesel wrote: One thing I've learned from many fps games. You can have all these great ideas ideas and stats down on paper, but in the end, how these ideas and stats translate on the actual battlefield is an entirely different story. Those KDR whores will try and exploit whatever setup they can get away with and the truth of whether or not what was implemented was severely overpowered. The KDR whores will reveal the truth of it all. Quote: I mean the term differently, though. A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win. ... The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevents him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant. Most of us don't want these advantages and try and ask CCP to test it... but then the casuals get mad that tryhards are getting to much attention so... meh. Sometimes balancing and making things competitive are two different things and talked about in very different light in this community for whatever reason.
Flint Beastgood III GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 455	Posted - 2014.01.15 20:04:00 - [63] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: knight guard fury wrote: remove the sidearm slot from scouts. i heard from some people that you said you were "thinking about it" The CPM held a discussion with both Remnant and Wolfman yesterday -- there's still a lot of discussion around this point so nothing's confirmed at all. The CPM in fact argued against removing sidearms from scouts - as they believe with the introduction of cloaking - it would be a healthy complement to be able to equip both Nova Knives and another weapon. As a compormise, the sidearm slot could be replaced with a knife slot. Bring on the racial knives! Gÿó +¦ +¦ Gÿó Trained Skills
MaDD MoXXY the third day Public Disorder. 1	Posted - 2014.01.15 20:57:00 - [64] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: Just make a new scout with a new skin that doesn't have a side arm, call it a saboteur or something. Problem solved. I agree they should just make a new class just like what they did with the commando and black eagle
DozersMouse XIII Ultramarine Corp 83	Posted - 2014.01.15 21:05:00 - [65] - Quote as a fully invested gallente scout I say screw cloaking I dont need it and I dont want it and I will most likely not use it I love my sidearm slot and it would be a tragedy to lose it as scouts we need a lower base scan profile and line of sight needs to be looked into imagine the s#!t you can kill from a throne.... fu@#!n Rome.
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2441	Posted - 2014.01.15 21:09:00 - [66] - Quote Well it makes sense though when you think about it A scout is supposed to be light yeah but whats light about hauling around a couple of guns and almost as much equipment as a logi Inb4 "but mai armorz" Im not drunk, the planet just happens to be especially wobbly today.
lordjanuz Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men. 283	Posted - 2014.01.15 21:23:00 - [67] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: knight guard fury wrote: remove the sidearm slot from scouts. i heard from some people that you said you were "thinking about it" The CPM held a discussion with both Remnant and Wolfman yesterday -- there's still a lot of discussion around this point so nothing's confirmed at all. The CPM in fact argued against removing sidearms from scouts - as they believe with the introduction of cloaking - it would be a healthy complement to be able to equip both Nova Knives and another weapon. So nothing is confirmed at all, do we have a timeframe when it will be.
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 35	Posted - 2014.01.16 08:23:00 - [68] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: Joel II X wrote: Everyone wants two equipments to run a cloak and something else so they wouldn't have to sacrifice anything but CPU and PG to have fun with their new toy. That's what's broken, in my opinion. I don't think that the above thinking is broken at all. A quick recap ... Scouts were guilty of bullet weaving (taking advantage of bad hit detection) in Chrome. For this sin, we paid steep price. Every aspect of our suit was nerfed. Seriously. Every aspect. The left side of the equation was addressed: Hit detection's fixed. Aim assist is on. Bullet weaving is gone. Speed tanking is dead. The right side of the equation -- however -- remains unaddressed: So Scouts have waited 8 builds for nerf reversal / reduction (a.k.a. Dev Hugs) which has yet to come. Dev Hugs could've been another Hi Slot for Gallente or Lo Slot for Minmatar. Dev Hugs could've been a huge boost to mobility, speed and stamina. Dev Hugs could've been any number or combination of things. But the Devs chose to Hug us with Cloak. It has been decided. The Devs could've built cloak into the Scout Suit; Hugs delivered, equation solved, no debate. The Devs chose against this option. We now have two crowds: The pre-nerf crowd says the Scout should have to trade something valuable for their upcoming Hug. The no-nerf crowd -- which includes Scouts -- says no quid pro quo. You would too in our shoes: How exactly does CCP expect me to return the hugs if they cut off one of my arms in the process of said hugs. - J0LLY R0G3R (Scout Registry, Page 353, Post 7043) Hit detection is hardly fixed. Bullets seem to travel around corners, I can't count the amount of times I have been shot through solid walls. AA sucks and is the real band aid for hit detection.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 465	Posted - 2014.01.16 09:27:00 - [69] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Heavenly Daughter wrote: I don't know if this thread is genuine or not but if the sidearms are removed form scouts I think it's a good thing. Logi's have no sidearms because it benefits the logo's in equipment and the odd case who does sacrifices other slots. The same should therefore also apply to scouts, they want speed and manoeuvrability so removing the sidearm or light weapon make a great deal of sense. Remove a weapons from scouts. Hardly, why gimp an already underperforming suit. The speed advantage is not a glorious one (and should the minni Assault lose the siedarm as well? He is also faster) the only advantages a scout currently have are mobility (not speed as i said the difference is not very high) and the lower profile (which is countered by active scanners ). For these two advantages he gives lots HP, CPU, Slots compared to the other frames... Seriously how does it gimp the suit? Logistics suit's (Amarr exception) Have been THE slayer suits for 8 months... and they have only ever had one weapon slot. It doesn't ruin your killing potential in anyway. Having the extra equipment slot will improve the utility of a scout which is much more valuable then a secondary weapon incase of an emergency... Being able to run multiple equipment is a FAR FAR better choice for scouts then having an emergency backup weapon. Even fitting the sidearms on already fitting challenged suits can be extremely hard let alone with cloaks coming out... freeing up this extra fitting requirements that are used somewhat rarely compared to main hand weapons would also be good for the class. IMO, All scouts should have built in nova knifes but the whole Nova knife concept in DUST, is just done.... weird. You know that was because logis culd tank a shitload of hp while having an inherent 5HP/sec reapir with 8 H/L slots and 3 to equipment slots all this with high CPU/PG?
OZAROW Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 1257	Posted - 2014.01.17 04:16:00 - [70] - Quote Joel II X wrote: OZAROW wrote: Why can't the extra equipment slot only hold a cloak an nothing else just like a grenade slot? Why would we have to lose anything if it worked this way the only benifits we would get not running a cloak would be more CPU and pg. Does anyone have a problem with this if it means keeping our gun and grenade? With this drastic of a change a full respec is in order, gun sp, grenade sp all of it, it would change our whole place style , suits weapons an drop suit mods that would have to change with this type of remodeling to our characters it would dramatically change What we have skilled into You're going to get so much negative comments on this, so I'll put it in friendly terms. Tying one equipment to a suit is very limiting and defeats the purpose of the game. A well-placed Uplink is as beneficial as running a cloak. Everyone wants two equipments to run a cloak and something else so they wouldn't have to sacrifice anything but CPU and PG to have fun with their new toy. That's what's broken, in my opinion. I ll put this in friendly terms, ya I want another slot, is it worth losing a gun over? NO DEFINETLY NOT. You want a uplink in a good spot, run the uplink suit till you die, respawn in a stronger fit. How you gonna make a fit stronger with one gun? Why cuz you have a cloak were instantly invincible? No! Scouts need a sidearm, cuz when your out of bullets your gonna go to switch guns an throw a uplink at someone! No thank you SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 62	Posted - 2014.01.17 04:35:00 - [71] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: Scout Registry wrote: Joel II X wrote: Everyone wants two equipments to run a cloak and something else so they wouldn't have to sacrifice anything but CPU and PG to have fun with their new toy. That's what's broken, in my opinion. I don't think that the above thinking is broken at all. A quick recap ... Scouts were guilty of bullet weaving (taking advantage of bad hit detection) in Chrome. For this sin, we paid steep price. Every aspect of our suit was nerfed. Seriously. Every aspect. The left side of the equation was addressed: Hit detection's fixed. Aim assist is on. Bullet weaving is gone. Speed tanking is dead. The right side of the equation -- however -- remains unaddressed: So Scouts have waited 8 builds for nerf reversal / reduction (a.k.a. Dev Hugs) which has yet to come. Dev Hugs could've been another Hi Slot for Gallente or Lo Slot for Minmatar. Dev Hugs could've been a huge boost to mobility, speed and stamina. Dev Hugs could've been any number or combination of things. But the Devs chose to Hug us with Cloak. It has been decided. The Devs could've built cloak into the Scout Suit; Hugs delivered, equation solved, no debate. The Devs chose against this option. We now have two crowds: The pre-nerf crowd says the Scout should have to trade something valuable for their upcoming Hug. The no-nerf crowd -- which includes Scouts -- says no quid pro quo. You would too in our shoes: How exactly does CCP expect me to return the hugs if they cut off one of my arms in the process of said hugs. - J0LLY R0G3R (Scout Registry, Page 353, Post 7043) Hit detection is hardly fixed. Bullets seem to travel around corners, I can't count the amount of times I have been shot through solid walls. AA sucks and is the real band aid for hit detection. But is the bullets traveling around corners worse for scouts or medium frames Scouts rely on not getting hit, as they have next to no shield or armor. with the magnetic bulet effect, the suit with the lowest health and most speed to dodge the oncoming fire gets the largest nerf. Especially when now, being hit by bullets severely lowers movement speed to about a heavy level, causing scouts to be nerfed a total of 4 times 1. Chromosome- all stats were severley limited 2. Improved hit detection did not allow scouts to dodge bullets as well as before (indirect nerf) 3. Aim assist/magnetic bullet effect (indirect nerf) 4. Physical impulses to slow suits when they take any sort of fire, prevventing them from finding cover (semi-direct nerf) Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Jotun Izalaru Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 43	Posted - 2014.01.17 04:40:00 - [72] - Quote you clowns, the bullets don't curve corners or dumb things like that. it's just lag between you, the server, and the other player. you've never played a console shooter on the internet without this happening. (MAG had some weird way of disguising it, though)
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 546	Posted - 2014.01.17 04:46:00 - [73] - Quote Jotun Izalaru wrote: you clowns, the bullets don't curve corners or dumb things like that. it's just lag between you, the server, and the other player. you've never played a console shooter on the internet without this happening. (MAG had some weird way of disguising it, though) They do, actually. Slightly. As long as you had the cross hair on the enemy, if he slips for a second out of it and you've moved not too far, the bullets will be magnetized to him or her. This is how the Combat Rifle is so effective and why some people die even if they made it past the corner. It's been confirmed by the developers that this is in place.
Tectonic Fusion 975	Posted - 2014.01.17 04:58:00 - [74] - Quote Joel II X wrote: I still think there should be a Covert Ops class (current scout) and Scout class (single weapon, more Intel-based, 1 light weapon, 2 equipments). This way everybody's happy. Or bring type 2 suits back into the game... Solo Player Squad status: Locked
Celus Ivara DUST University Ivy League 152	Posted - 2014.01.17 06:21:00 - [75] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Where was this posted? I didn't see anything about removing grenade slots. Link please? I'm not sure where/if this was publicly posted - the conversation only took place yesterday in a CPM meeting with the Design team. :) I can sorta see a valid argument for losing the sidearm-slot as part of a larger role restructuring effort, but the grenade slot? I use grenades all the time in my primary role of uplink management, which includes popping enemy 'links, of which fluxes are a big part of that. (Which BTW, is in-tune with CCP Remnant's stated goal of Scouts being the behind enemy-line troublemaker.) Also, in my secondary role of killin' dudes, the surprise massive damage-spike grenades can deal, is very useful for surprise attackers like us. And a 'nade hucked half-way between us and the enemy is basically the only thing that can make an enemy pull back for a sec, thus letting us disappear back into the shadows. Grenades presently are actually pretty close to the iconic ninja smoke-bomb. The grenade slot is pretty vital for Scouts. Heck, I'd rather lose all my high slots than lose my grenade slot. (Don't touch my highs, though.)
Tyjus Vacca Valor Coalition 80	Posted - 2014.01.17 08:02:00 - [76] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Joel II X wrote: I still think there should be a Covert Ops class (current scout) and Scout class (single weapon, more Intel-based, 1 light weapon, 2 equipments). This way everybody's happy. I agree. why not make the current light frame single weapon 2 equipment slots as the basic intel/scout suit and change the current scout into covert ops with cloaking bonus. :: Turns to Scout :: This man has a question for you. Would you prefer to have one decent suit or two watered down suits? :: Turns to McReady :: There's your reason. I'm sorry that you got stabbed. hahahahahahahahaha
Ascythian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 11	Posted - 2014.01.21 23:05:00 - [77] - Quote Could shoot while cloaked in planetside 1, wasn't unbalanced. Shame we can't do the same in PS2
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4359	Posted - 2014.01.21 23:09:00 - [78] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Well it makes sense though when you think about it A scout is supposed to be light yeah but whats light about hauling around a couple of guns and almost as much equipment as a logi Inb4 "but mai armorz" By "almost as much" you mean "half as much", I'm guessing. Also, lighter armour is lighter armour. Scouts are light, so light armour. Logis are not light, so less light armour.
Grief PK Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 90	Posted - 2014.01.21 23:39:00 - [79] - Quote Any suite that doesnt haev a grenade slot will not be used in PC ... period. Any suite that does not have a sidearm will not be used ... period. Question: CCP do you want scouts in Dust514?


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