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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4323
   |
Posted - 2014.01.04 08:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quote:8. Do you feel equipment spam is a problem and if so what are your thoughts on possible solutions for littered uplinks and stacked nanohives?
by The Council of Planetary Management (CPM)
Use of equipment is obviously encouraged but abuse of any system to the point where itGÇÖs detrimental to gameplay is obviously a problem. So, yeah, itGÇÖs definitely an issue. WeGÇÖd like to approach the problem by first increasing the PG/CPU costs along with role-specific skills that reduce those costs to discourage mass fitting of drop uplinks and nanohives, and put them back into the hands of the specialists. Eventually, weGÇÖd want to introduce the ability for the enemy to hack a piece of equipment and take ownership of it (to encourage smarter placement of equipment instead of dumping dozens in plain sight) and have War Barge-fired EMP strikes that destroy all equipment over a very large area.
I understand there's a significant level of crystal balling here as we [the community] don't know any details pertaining to what changes will take place, but after some time to consider my words, I feel it needs to be said.
Please proceed with caution on this, I beg you. Equipment Spam covers a wide variety of symptoms ranging from general in-battle strategy to frame-rate drops, among other things. It is important to not simply view this as the result of laxxed fittings on equipment items and while I'd rather not commit the logical fallacy of a 'slippery slope' argument, logic would dictate that regardless of the fitting costs, if a player wants to spam the item they're going to do it no matter what.
At the moment a large part of the issue, I (and others) feel, is that the problem revolves around the ability to set a pre-determined suit for the purpose and simply switch it out at a supply depot after dropping off multiple types of the same piece of equipment. Increasing the fitting costs won't hamper this much, I feel, due to the fact that the suit's sole purpose is to put down the equipment - no other. There would be no reason to fit other modules or high-grade weaponry if it meant being able to perform the same task as before.
While my fears may be premature, my concern is solely revolving around the ideal that increasing resource costs may very well downgrade the intended usability by other roles and restrict it to a more narrow field that still is capable of being used in the same problem areas.
That's all I have to say, thank you.
forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=
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CCP Saberwing
C C P
C C P Alliance
646
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Posted - 2014.01.04 09:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Will fire this thread over to him in an email. :)
CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4323
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Posted - 2014.01.04 09:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Will fire this thread over to him in an email. :)
Thanks, Saberwing. Would give more likes if at all possible.
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Ghost Kaisar
Titans of Phoenix
Legacy Rising
1434
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 10:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
How about instead of working ways to get rid of large amounts of equipment at once (EMP'S), how about we just put a time limit on how long the equipment can be out before it self-destructs?
It would help lessen the spam, as equipment would self-regulate itself, and would encourage logi's to carry around the equipment and deploy it when NEEDED, not just willy nilly.
Exceptions to the rules would be Spawn Links and Remotes. They have a purpose in being dropped, and as such would be exempt of "being left too long".
How do you guys feel about this?
Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57
Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
375
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Posted - 2014.01.04 10:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
I believe that the beneficiary of a piece of equipment should not be the same person as the operator of said item. Whenever this happens I think game-design as made a mistake.
For example, Swarm Launchers can only be equipped together with a nanohive. Once the SL-operator is in position he drops a nanohive and starts unleashing his (nowadays fruitless) fury. The process could be simplified by increasing the fitting costs of a Swarm Launcher while simultaneously increasing the ammo capacity to a useful level.
As a counter example a repair tool can only be used on other players. This promotes teamplay even in public games. When you're hurt you run towards the blob of blueberries, somebody shines his flashlight at you and you're good to go. Awesome.
Coming to think of it I guess that nanohives and drop uplinks are the main culprit here. It's very boring play when somebody places these items exclusively for himself. To avoid this I'd genuinely like the fitting costs of low-level uplinks and nanohives to increase. High-level nanohives and uplinks are already difficult enough to fit to discourage their use in fittings that are designed for a different purpose.
I like Ghost Kaisar's idea of having a duration timer on dropped equipment. High tier equipment could have a timer near match-duration while low tier items could have a relatively short timer. This discourages 'left-overs' from items dropped in self-service. |
Scout Registry
259
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Posted - 2014.01.04 10:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
@Aeon
I've never, ever placed a lag bomb, spammed uplinks, etc, etc.
I have, however, affixed 6 REs to the front of a LAV, swapped suits at a supply depot, then affixed 6 more REs to the front of the same LAV. I do this to lessen the odds of my suicide being fruitless; it only takes a flick of the wrist for a derpaderp tanker to flip on a hardener and foil holy mission.
Anyhow, would the proposed method for fixing equipment spam prevent me from successfully suicide bombing a tanks? If so, perhaps you could ask Remnant to give us some decent A/V while you're at it? No one really enjoys being a suicide bomber, but no one really enjoys those all-too-frequent matches featuring multiple tanks.
 |
DeeJay One
Guardian Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
173
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 10:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Scout Registry wrote:@Aeon I've never, ever placed a lag bomb, spammed uplinks, etc, etc. I have, however, affixed 6 REs to the front of a LAV, swapped suits at a supply depot, then affixed 6 more REs to the front of the same LAV. I do this out of necessity, to lessen the odds of my suicide being fruitless ... it only takes a flick of the wrist for a derpaderp tanker to flip on a hardener and foil my holy mission. Anyhow, would the proposed method for fixing equipment spam prevent me from successfully suicide bombing a tanks? If so, perhaps you could ask Remnant to give us some decent A/V while you're at it? No one really enjoys being a suicide bomber, but no one really enjoys those all-too-frequent matches featuring multiple tanks.
Well, I'm all for introducing equipment bandwidth to Dust (akin to drone bandwidth in EVE, more elaborate thoughts on that are somewhere on the forums here). The drawback for your use case would be that it would require a second player placing the other set of charges on your LAV, but you know - team work ;) |
CaveCav
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
147
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 10:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Scout Registry wrote:No one really enjoys being a suicide bomber
I do, I love my suicide tactics 
Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
1976
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 11:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Is the problem with the tactical advantage it creates or the lag and other technical issues they create?
It's my understanding that the root of the problem stems from the audio associated with deployable equipment.
If this is the case, could we just kill the affected audio until a proper repair is made, before soiling one aspect of team play?
Beer before Liquor, never sicker.
Toothpaste before Orange Juice, you're dead.
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE SPADES
174
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 11:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Quote:8. Do you feel equipment spam is a problem and if so what are your thoughts on possible solutions for littered uplinks and stacked nanohives?
by The Council of Planetary Management (CPM)
Use of equipment is obviously encouraged but abuse of any system to the point where itGÇÖs detrimental to gameplay is obviously a problem. So, yeah, itGÇÖs definitely an issue. WeGÇÖd like to approach the problem by first increasing the PG/CPU costs along with role-specific skills that reduce those costs to discourage mass fitting of drop uplinks and nanohives, and put them back into the hands of the specialists. Eventually, weGÇÖd want to introduce the ability for the enemy to hack a piece of equipment and take ownership of it (to encourage smarter placement of equipment instead of dumping dozens in plain sight) and have War Barge-fired EMP strikes that destroy all equipment over a very large area. I understand there's a significant level of crystal balling here as we [the community] don't know any details pertaining to what changes will take place, but after some time to consider my words, I feel it needs to be said. Please proceed with caution on this, I beg you. Equipment Spam covers a wide variety of symptoms ranging from general in-battle strategy to frame-rate drops, among other things. It is important to not simply view this as the result of laxxed fittings on equipment items and while I'd rather not commit the logical fallacy of a 'slippery slope' argument, logic would dictate that regardless of the fitting costs, if a player wants to spam the item they're going to do it no matter what. At the moment a large part of the issue, I (and others) feel, is that the problem revolves around the ability to set a pre-determined suit for the purpose and simply switch it out at a supply depot after dropping off multiple types of the same piece of equipment. Increasing the fitting costs won't hamper this much, I feel, due to the fact that the suit's sole purpose is to put down the equipment - no other. There would be no reason to fit other modules or high-grade weaponry if it meant being able to perform the same task as before. While my fears may be premature, my concern is solely revolving around the ideal that increasing resource costs may very well downgrade the intended usability by other roles and restrict it to a more narrow field that still is capable of being used in the same problem areas. That's all I have to say, thank you.
what if you didnt need to deploy equipment to use it? say if you fit nanohives on your suit, if you wanted to give ammo to someone you would just run up to them and stand near them. if you fitted a dropuplink your squadmates would simply spawn near you.
and if you wanted to use explosives... 
jk, you still need to deploy those lol
not having to deploy nanohives means if your squad sticks together then they wont run out of ammo as long as someone has one.
a scout can carry uplinks and suddenly he becomes a powerful asset. staying off scan and alowing his squad to deploy near objectives or take advantage of weak defenses.
and the best part is that theres no equipment spam! which means no/less frame rate drops. |
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RKKR
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
609
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Posted - 2014.01.04 11:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
I rambled about a more interesting role mechanic for giving suppor before.
But yeah it needs a redesign of te game, something that needed to be done a long time ago, I mean it's fun that you can fit your suit like you want, but is it effective? isn't 99% using the same setup? Think about it. |
elric the enchanter
xCosmic Voidx
Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
318
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 12:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
How about experimenting with simply restricting each logi suit to different equipment types in each slot, and making it a requirement that all equipment slots have to be filled (on Logi suits). Admittedly, if close to a supply depot it wouldn't prevent players returning to switch suits, but if they were intent on doing so, it would at least force them to not stray too far, effectively restricting their offensive capability.
Am a dedicated logi and I currently run a dedicated spawn suit with 2 x uplinks for the beginning of matches, but would be quite happy with this restriction.
Have also played a few matches where the frame rate was ridiculous - purely a result of the tactic of spamming the area around a supply depot with a solid bed of nanohives. If you drop equipment in the red-line, it 'pops' - how about possibly creating an area around supply depots where the same would happen if equipment was dropped (except remotes / proximity mines), and maybe also increasing the area of effect of the depots themselves to discourage the practice?
Tried being CEO of Cosmic Void once...
...but it's in safe hands now!
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
2671
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 12:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:How about instead of working ways to get rid of large amounts of equipment at once (EMP'S), how about we just put a time limit on how long the equipment can be out before it self-destructs?
It would help lessen the spam, as equipment would self-regulate itself, and would encourage logi's to carry around the equipment and deploy it when NEEDED, not just willy nilly.
Exceptions to the rules would be Spawn Links and Remotes. They have a purpose in being dropped, and as such would be exempt of "being left too long".
How do you guys feel about this?
Worthless, because equipment spam is exactly that. Spam.
It doesn't matter if its constantly expiring when im constantly putting down new ones anyway.
Furthermore, uplinks are the largest problem currently and they are exempt from your rule. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
1472
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 12:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
I think the best way to approach it is by limiting the drop suits maximum deployable equipment by the Max Active count of the best hive/uplink you currently have. Either that or have multiple up links/hives in x radius cancel each other out. Or just make the damn things hackable with a repair tool. |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE SPADES
176
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 13:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
elric the enchanter wrote:How about experimenting with simply restricting each logi suit to different equipment types in each slot, and making it a requirement that all equipment slots have to be filled (on Logi suits). Admittedly, if close to a supply depot it wouldn't prevent players returning to switch suits, but if they were intent on doing so, it would at least force them to not stray too far, effectively restricting their offensive capability.
Am a dedicated logi and I currently run a dedicated spawn suit with 2 x uplinks for the beginning of matches, but would be quite happy with this restriction.
Have also played a few matches where the frame rate was ridiculous - purely a result of the tactic of spamming the area around a supply depot with a solid bed of nanohives. If you drop equipment in the red-line, it 'pops' - how about possibly creating an area around supply depots where the same would happen if equipment was dropped (except remotes / proximity mines), and maybe also increasing the area of effect of the depots themselves to discourage the practice?
imo logis dont need a light weapon. if theyre doing their job, then theyll be too busy to shoot anything. logis should just have a side arm |
DeeJay One
Guardian Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
173
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 13:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:I think the best way to approach it is by limiting the drop suits maximum deployable equipment by the Max Active count of the best hive/uplink you currently have.
Well, instead of a max active count bandwidth would be better. So you could for example deploy X lower tier devices or X-Y advanced devices. Also you could still switch suits to other having the same bandwidth so the devices you've deployed would still be active. If you switch to a suit with a lower bandwidth some of the devices would dissapear or be offlined (maybe based on a range function). This way at any given point in time all your active devices would be limited to your max bandwidth.
Although it would still be possible to do some spamming, as every player could be running high bandwidth suits all the time but you'd limit the maximum number of devices by a simple formula. It shouldn't be that hard for the server to keep track of it.
Of course you could fine tune Logi suits stats for them being better at deploying equipment, but worse at being assaults, for example by replacing some of the current CPU/PG requirements in equipment for bandwidth, so you couldn't put on more DMG/armour/shield mods on an assault suit that on a logi suit. As the assault suit would have less bandwidth and more CPU/PG while the Logi suits would have a bonus to bandwidth with less CPU/PG.
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Paran Tadec
The Hetairoi
1819
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Posted - 2014.01.04 14:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:elric the enchanter wrote:How about experimenting with simply restricting each logi suit to different equipment types in each slot, and making it a requirement that all equipment slots have to be filled (on Logi suits). Admittedly, if close to a supply depot it wouldn't prevent players returning to switch suits, but if they were intent on doing so, it would at least force them to not stray too far, effectively restricting their offensive capability.
Am a dedicated logi and I currently run a dedicated spawn suit with 2 x uplinks for the beginning of matches, but would be quite happy with this restriction.
Have also played a few matches where the frame rate was ridiculous - purely a result of the tactic of spamming the area around a supply depot with a solid bed of nanohives. If you drop equipment in the red-line, it 'pops' - how about possibly creating an area around supply depots where the same would happen if equipment was dropped (except remotes / proximity mines), and maybe also increasing the area of effect of the depots themselves to discourage the practice? imo logis dont need a light weapon. if theyre doing their job, then theyll be too busy to shoot anything. logis should just have a side arm
sorry i cant pick you up, couldnt kill the guy standing over your body....
Bittervet Proficiency V
thanks logibro!
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
949
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 14:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Will fire this thread over to him in an email. :)
thank you. Aeon Amadi is spot on.
My comment on subject:
Biggest issue is that each variant of an equipment counts towards it's own max limit.
Because of that there can be a ton of similar Eq by one person causing several problems (mass spam at supply depot, detrimental corp battle tactics with unweedable amount of uplinks, unique fitting limit of 30 not being enough amongst others)
As we do not want to cut down the number of Eq variants (...AUR Eq are also variants, remember!)
I urge that devs have the bravery to tackle the not so simple task of creating Eq number limitations in some other way
(I have suggestions in some other thread)
Tank spam getting onto your nerves?
An improvement:
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
949
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 14:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
Making red Eqs hackable wouldn't solve a thing.
Currently red Eqs are destroyed.
Imagine if ppl beging to hack them (for wp?) instead of destroying?
That would certainly not reduce the amount of Eq on ground.
Tank spam getting onto your nerves?
An improvement:
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
949
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 14:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
elric the enchanter wrote:How about experimenting with simply restricting each logi suit to different equipment types in each slot, and making it a requirement that all equipment slots have to be filled (on Logi suits). Admittedly, if close to a supply depot it wouldn't prevent players returning to switch suits, but if they were intent on doing so, it would at least force them to not stray too far, effectively restricting their offensive capability.
Am a dedicated logi and I currently run a dedicated spawn suit with 2 x uplinks for the beginning of matches, but would be quite happy with this restriction.
Have also played a few matches where the frame rate was ridiculous - purely a result of the tactic of spamming the area around a supply depot with a solid bed of nanohives. If you drop equipment in the red-line, it 'pops' - how about possibly creating an area around supply depots where the same would happen if equipment was dropped (except remotes / proximity mines), and maybe also increasing the area of effect of the depots themselves to discourage the practice?
In a match with no supply depots:
As long as different fittings could have different variants, 1 Eq type per suit would help only a moderate amount.
In a match with supply depots:
As long as different fittings could have different variants, 1 Eq type per suit would help only a negligible amount.
Tank spam getting onto your nerves?
An improvement:
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
734
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Posted - 2014.01.04 14:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
there is not really a need for the ability to throw down multiple versions of the same type of item. removing that would drop half of the nano hive spam/uplink spam from the start without affecting role's and fittings much. yes someone can still carry extra of different versions but deploying one would destroy the other.
so in essence instead of that logi dropping 8 hives and switching to drop of a heap of uplinks he can only deploy within the boundries of that items stats.
if i drop a 1 drop nano and then switch to a 2 drop nano as soon as i drop the first of the 2 drop nano it aborts the 1 drop nano as the newer one take priority and exceeds the first nano's 1 active at a time. i can then drop the 2nd nano as it is within the boundries of the other nanos stats of 2 deployed at a time. same would apply to uplinks
this would still allow you to carry all that supply and versitility in choice but without allowing you to spam and also clears up your other mess behind you if your advancing etc.
a simple change like increasing cpu and reducing it with skills for certain roles wont stop the problem as there are ways around high cpu/pg especially if your spamming in a safe space. this also only goes to make those single equip users weaker while(im presuming) logis get a role bonus and are not affected which could open up a whole new issue and i dont want my logi nerfed :)
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
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Akdhar Saif
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
134
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 15:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
I suggest that if a Nanohive is dropped within a certain distance from another Nanohive already set-up it is absorbed by the Nanohive in place. The absorption could affect the first NH by increasing ammo stock and maybe increasing the range of effectiveness. The person who first places their NH will still receive their WP while those who had their NH absorbed will receive a fraction of it.
This would encourage competition within a team so that players will be forced to pick the best spots and set-up their NH's before others or simply make sure that their NH's are placed sparsely enough so that they are not absorbed.
It would also add another dimension of play to the game as players will have to think twice about simply dropping their NH's or Uplinks where others have placed theirs. |
mollerz
Minja Scouts
1552
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Posted - 2014.01.04 15:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
Why not change supply depots to ammo only?
Also, one drop uplink/nanohive per soldier limit.
You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
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Donwalis
BIG BAD W0LVES
7
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Posted - 2014.01.04 15:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
what if you limit the type of equipment you can fit to a certain type of suit to balance out the team aspect of play as in (scout- only uplinks). and for logis to carry both uplinks and nanohives cause asault and heavys should only be used for killing. that would do 2 things. stop the spam of equipment all over the place, by only have those suits fit that equipment and lower the amount of equipment and makes you think more about when and where you drop them. adding a strategic element to placement forcing more team play about taking an objective.mean a 6 man team 2 scouts break out 1 heads to A cap objective watch area for assault to spawn in 2nd scouts heads to B rinse repeat. now you got 1 squad covering 2 objectives less spaming and more guns to defend A &B now add in more squad with the ability to cover and move forward instead of spawning all over the place out in the open. and limiting the number of equipment spawned while adding the ability to move effectively around the battlefield. but, it will only work if everyone can talk to one another increasing teams effectiveness using team chat. but now bring up another problem. everybody doesn't use a mic and that's something i don't get. it a team based fps and yet i play and NOBODY talks then the ones that do get rolled by other side .why? because they couldn't get it together cause the rest ran around all willy nilly. cause there playstyle is COD (dont communicate just shoot and hope we win cause i just want my KDR to stay high). Well if you talk to eveyone you'll have a higher KDR and Lower Death vs Kills and a better game . but these are the ranting of some who like to coordinate a team an pass out ass whoopings lol yeah i don't have a high KDR but when i play we win. just by talking to everyone on my team an using there abilities to take out a uncoordinated team. |
Marston VC
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1429
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 17:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Will fire this thread over to him in an email. :)
Heres a thought. You know about how in EVE online theres time dilation if too many ships are in a system right? This is in an effort to help reduce lag. Well on a similar strain, if the number of equipment in a game exceeds a certain limit, why not have the effects disappear and be replaced with a simple blue ring? The sounds go away, and the pretty shimmer goes away until the numbers drop down below 75% of the maximum. (75% so that if they do all come back on at once it should help keep from lagging when they do turn back on).
This way you people dong have to spend hours totally thinking about how to "rebalance" equipment so that only specialist can use it. (which is curious to say anyway considering im pretty sure anyone who spams equipment is a specialist to begin with..... otherwise they wouldn't be in a logistics suit spamming proto equipment everywhere.....)
Marston VC, STB Director
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Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
Public Disorder.
1426
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 18:06:00 -
[26] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:Will fire this thread over to him in an email. :) Heres a thought. You know about how in EVE online theres time dilation if too many ships are in a system right? This is in an effort to help reduce lag. Well on a similar strain, if the number of equipment in a game exceeds a certain limit, why not have the effects disappear and be replaced with a simple blue ring? The sounds go away, and the pretty shimmer goes away until the numbers drop down below 75% of the maximum. (75% so that if they do all come back on at once it should help keep from lagging when they do turn back on). This way you people dong have to spend hours totally thinking about how to "rebalance" equipment so that only specialist can use it. (which is curious to say anyway considering im pretty sure anyone who spams equipment is a specialist to begin with..... otherwise they wouldn't be in a logistics suit spamming proto equipment everywhere.....)
+1. Love that solution Marston.
I support SP rollover.
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Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
Public Disorder.
1426
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Posted - 2014.01.04 18:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
Definition of Problem:
-The problem is lag/reduced framerate, induced by deployed equipment.
Explanation of problem:
-Unknown. Rumors of it being audio-related(I have vauge memories of someone saying that the system was having to create one audio channel per piece of deployed equipment). Does CCP know cause? If so please communicate this to the players. If not, please communicate this to the players. Knowing/being reminded of these things might change the way we think about the problem.
- Is the problem confined to the client? If not what code on which server(s)?
-This induced lag is attributable to code systems implemented using methods that do not scale well. These methods may be in use in other parts of the codebase as well. If that is the case then we will encounter similar scaling problems when match sizes expand.
Solution of problem:
-Ideally this is solved in the code, because as match sizes scale the problem will scale. Matches may become unplayable with heavy spam, but our framerate is likely suffereing in every single game because of this code problem.
-If a code-based solution is not possible, then we'll be forced to introduce arbitrary game mechanics to kludge a band-aid for the situation. We must ensure that these arbitrary game mechanics also scale with match size.
Commentary:
I believe that the binaural location of equipment is unrealistic. Someday we will be fighting in other atmospheres or vacuum - does this mean we will not hear our own equipment or the enemies? The implication is that our suits are generating the audio signal, not the equipment itself.
I support SP rollover.
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2628
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 18:31:00 -
[28] - Quote
The problem is lag and the fix should address the root cause head on rather than dance around it. If it's the animation or sound effects, fix the code. Simplify them if that's the only way you know how to eliminate the lag.
Don't add complexity by creating a whole new set of rules with CPU consuming code to support them. That way lies more trouble. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
Public Disorder.
1426
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 18:34:00 -
[29] - Quote
Skihids wrote:The problem is lag and the fix should address the root cause head on rather than dance around it. If it's the animation or sound effects, fix the code. Simplify them if that's the only way you know how to eliminate the lag.
Don't add complexity by creating a whole new set of rules with CPU consuming code to support them. That way lies more trouble.
You rock.
I support SP rollover.
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Luke Vetri
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
131
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Posted - 2014.01.04 20:46:00 -
[30] - Quote
Fixing it in the code is the best place, but may well be the hardest. Regardless of the lag, some of the other suggestions are excellent, specifically:
Limit uplinks to scouts and logis, limit hives, rep and needles to logis the other classes have no business using them, they should be killing, as for the comment about limiting Logis to sidearms, don't be ridiculous, however giving assaults a damage boost would be a good idea as an offset. |
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4337
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Posted - 2014.01.04 20:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
There's a lot of propositions and I didn't expect the thread to take off as well as it did (Murphy's Law addendum of Blue-Tags I guess).
Few solutions I personally agree with:
1.) Distancing. If you place a drop-uplink down, or someone else does, no-one can place another one within say, a 50m radius of it, as an example. There are similar measures in place for certain objects in Eve Online. I like this solution because it focuses more on tactical placement rather than whatever you can cram in at the time.
2.) Bandwidth. Same as above, there are similar measures in place for certain objects in Eve Online - most notably drones. I sort of understand what was proposed but I don't feel safe commenting on it until I genuinely know.
3.) Limitations based on the item's deployment amount. An Ishukone Gauged Nanohive is the best, for this, as you can carry four and have three active. That being said, if the teams were limited so that each player could only put down the contiguous maximum of his highest tiered item, in this case three, regardless of how many 'variations' of said item he'd have, we'd notice a lot more thought put into placement as well as a significant reduction in the spam.
If every single person on a team dropped every single variation of each item, to it's maximum, you'd see:
Nanohives: 544
Dropuplinks: 528
But if they could only put down the maximum that single piece of equipment would allow, subtracting ones already placed:
Nanohives: 48
Dropuplinks: 48
It's important to remember that while we, the community, can suggest different ways of going about this, we're not always going to agree on every aspect. Some of the community feel that it's perfectly acceptable to not have any limitations at all, so long as it doesn't infringe on game-play. I can understand this. However, it's important to remember that the decision CCP makes on the solution is ultimately up to them and not everyone may be happy with the solution, so fancy the thought of all outcomes 
EDIT: I also am very opposed to equipment type limitations based on class specific roles. All this generally does is infringes on personal customization styles and ultimately doesn't resolve the problem. If a Logi is the only one capable of fitting Nanohives, it's not going to stop anyone from fitting a logi suit solely to spam hives. What it will stop, however, is someone wanting to use them for whatever reason on any other suit.
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THUNDERGROOVE
ZionTCD
Public Disorder.
449
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 21:01:00 -
[32] - Quote
I specced into my logi suit and equipment initially so I can logi for myself. Let's face it, most logis are trash at supporting a team anywho and I since I'm never guaranteed a decent logi I get penalized for it not because someone made a couple lag bombs and people complain in pubs, not because every PC match is a slideshow, but because CCP can't even into memory management.
I've tested it plenty times and even after a "lag bomb" is setup and destroyed the lag persists. Which, to my understanding means either the objects were likely never deleted (Or garbage collected because there is still an instance of it laying around) from memory thus causing it to build up and build up until everyone is lagging.
Ghost Kaisar wrote:How about instead of working ways to get rid of large amounts of equipment at once (EMP'S), how about we just put a time limit on how long the equipment can be out before it self-destructs?
It would help lessen the spam, as equipment would self-regulate itself, and would encourage logi's to carry around the equipment and deploy it when NEEDED, not just willy nilly.
Exceptions to the rules would be Spawn Links and Remotes. They have a purpose in being dropped, and as such would be exempt of "being left too long".
How do you guys feel about this?
When I play by myself I setup equipment in useful spots then switch to my heavy suit. Not my fault I can't play by myself and expect a logi to be there with decent equipment and if they are they're probably worrying about their squad mates more.
ZionTCD Director & Ammar Loyalist
Amarr Sentinel | Amarr Logi | Losematar Scout
What is a signature?
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Flint Beastgood III
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
424
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Posted - 2014.01.05 01:27:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:How about instead of working ways to get rid of large amounts of equipment at once (EMP'S), how about we just put a time limit on how long the equipment can be out before it self-destructs?
It would help lessen the spam, as equipment would self-regulate itself, and would encourage logi's to carry around the equipment and deploy it when NEEDED, not just willy nilly.
Exceptions to the rules would be Spawn Links and Remotes. They have a purpose in being dropped, and as such would be exempt of "being left too long".
How do you guys feel about this?
+1 I'm all for this. It's a start.
Gÿó +¦ +¦ Gÿó
Trained Skills
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abarkrishna
WarRavens
257
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Posted - 2014.01.05 02:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
The biggest issue i see with "equipment spam" Is the result in has on the game. Poor frame rate and lag. The biggest culprit of spam is uplinks.
My thoughts would be simple. Place grids on the map and limit total individual equipment in each section of the grid. So in each section your team can place a total of so many uplinks and so many nanohives. When more than the allowed number gets thrown down one simply disappears. I believe this would put real tactical placement of equipment back into the game. The battle will always move depending on the time and strategies being deployed. Raising the cost will do nothing to stop the spam as OP had said. There is no arguing that.
No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2.
When will they learn!
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Sunken 1990 Rock
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.01.05 04:20:00 -
[35] - Quote
I think if you actually had to take the time to set up the Equipment it would solve problem just a little, you can throw those around in a fire fight so easily. And why not have a Passive Equipment that lets others spawn on you when Enemy are not in range. It will have limits like the Up-links but in more of just a supportive role.
Hi. My first post. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2634
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 04:30:00 -
[36] - Quote
Don't play with workarounds, fix the kitten code!
None of these half measures will solve the lag problem if it builds up regardless if the equipment is there or destroyed.
The number one rule for fixing software is to first identify the root cause, then address that specific issue. It's like having a room with a rotten floor. Some of you propose to put up turnstiles that allow only two people in the room at a time so nobody crashes through the floor. Some want to make all but one suit too wide to fit through the door. Others just want to paint the floor. What we need is to pull up the rotten boards and replace them.
You don't need to dream up detour signs to keep people out of the room. It's ineffective, adds complexity, and reduces the fun. Added complexity opens the door to loopholes and unforeseen consequences.
I've been in the software business for nearly thirty years and I've seen the results of trying to hide bugs rather than fix them. |
Fire of Prometheus
DUST University
Ivy League
2619
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 04:43:00 -
[37] - Quote
The solution to uplink spam, is limit it to 1 for every player on the team, same with nanohives. (So 16 nanohives and uplinks on the field at one time)
Eg. (A 16 player match) Player 1 throws down 3 uplinks and 2 nanohives. His team can now only throw down 13 uplinks (16-3=13) and 14 nanohives (16-2=14)
Proud member of the Commndo 6
<3 Commando AK.0
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4348
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Posted - 2014.01.05 04:57:00 -
[38] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Don't play with workarounds, fix the kitten code!
None of these half measures will solve the lag problem if it builds up regardless if the equipment is there or destroyed.
The number one rule for fixing software is to first identify the root cause, then address that specific issue. It's like having a room with a rotten floor. Some of you propose to put up turnstiles that allow only two people in the room at a time so nobody crashes through the floor. Some want to make all but one suit too wide to fit through the door. Others just want to paint the floor. What we need is to pull up the rotten boards and replace them.
You don't need to dream up detour signs to keep people out of the room. It's ineffective, adds complexity, and reduces the fun. Added complexity opens the door to loopholes and unforeseen consequences.
I've been in the software business for nearly thirty years and I've seen the results of trying to hide bugs rather than fix them.
It's not just lag, mate. It's just a generally irritating battle strategy to litter the ground with half-assed spawn points for the sake of spawning anywhere.
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Marston VC
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1442
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Posted - 2014.01.05 05:30:00 -
[39] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Skihids wrote:Don't play with workarounds, fix the kitten code!
None of these half measures will solve the lag problem if it builds up regardless if the equipment is there or destroyed.
The number one rule for fixing software is to first identify the root cause, then address that specific issue. It's like having a room with a rotten floor. Some of you propose to put up turnstiles that allow only two people in the room at a time so nobody crashes through the floor. Some want to make all but one suit too wide to fit through the door. Others just want to paint the floor. What we need is to pull up the rotten boards and replace them.
You don't need to dream up detour signs to keep people out of the room. It's ineffective, adds complexity, and reduces the fun. Added complexity opens the door to loopholes and unforeseen consequences.
I've been in the software business for nearly thirty years and I've seen the results of trying to hide bugs rather than fix them. It's not just lag, mate. It's just a generally irritating battle strategy to litter the ground with half-assed spawn points for the sake of spawning anywhere.
One flux fixes that. Its not like its really that hard to counter.......
Marston VC, STB Director
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4349
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Posted - 2014.01.05 05:49:00 -
[40] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Skihids wrote:Don't play with workarounds, fix the kitten code!
None of these half measures will solve the lag problem if it builds up regardless if the equipment is there or destroyed.
The number one rule for fixing software is to first identify the root cause, then address that specific issue. It's like having a room with a rotten floor. Some of you propose to put up turnstiles that allow only two people in the room at a time so nobody crashes through the floor. Some want to make all but one suit too wide to fit through the door. Others just want to paint the floor. What we need is to pull up the rotten boards and replace them.
You don't need to dream up detour signs to keep people out of the room. It's ineffective, adds complexity, and reduces the fun. Added complexity opens the door to loopholes and unforeseen consequences.
I've been in the software business for nearly thirty years and I've seen the results of trying to hide bugs rather than fix them. It's not just lag, mate. It's just a generally irritating battle strategy to litter the ground with half-assed spawn points for the sake of spawning anywhere. One flux fixes that. Its not like its really that hard to counter.......
If it were that simple the problem wouldn't exist, would it O_o
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2635
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Posted - 2014.01.05 06:04:00 -
[41] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Skihids wrote:Don't play with workarounds, fix the kitten code!
None of these half measures will solve the lag problem if it builds up regardless if the equipment is there or destroyed.
The number one rule for fixing software is to first identify the root cause, then address that specific issue. It's like having a room with a rotten floor. Some of you propose to put up turnstiles that allow only two people in the room at a time so nobody crashes through the floor. Some want to make all but one suit too wide to fit through the door. Others just want to paint the floor. What we need is to pull up the rotten boards and replace them.
You don't need to dream up detour signs to keep people out of the room. It's ineffective, adds complexity, and reduces the fun. Added complexity opens the door to loopholes and unforeseen consequences.
I've been in the software business for nearly thirty years and I've seen the results of trying to hide bugs rather than fix them. It's not just lag, mate. It's just a generally irritating battle strategy to litter the ground with half-assed spawn points for the sake of spawning anywhere.
Irritating because it's effective? Nobody complains about something they don't care about.
The truth is that proper uplink placement gives a team a clear advantage over one that is forced to trickle in from a rear spawn. The former maintains a battlefront while the latter gets cut down at the gates before they can put up a fight.
If you want irritating just get rid of all uplinks. Everyone gets to hike. Maybe dropships get used for transport, maybe not. Either way you spend most of the match walking back to the fight. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
Public Disorder.
1430
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 06:29:00 -
[42] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Skihids wrote:Don't play with workarounds, fix the kitten code!
None of these half measures will solve the lag problem if it builds up regardless if the equipment is there or destroyed.
The number one rule for fixing software is to first identify the root cause, then address that specific issue. It's like having a room with a rotten floor. Some of you propose to put up turnstiles that allow only two people in the room at a time so nobody crashes through the floor. Some want to make all but one suit too wide to fit through the door. Others just want to paint the floor. What we need is to pull up the rotten boards and replace them.
You don't need to dream up detour signs to keep people out of the room. It's ineffective, adds complexity, and reduces the fun. Added complexity opens the door to loopholes and unforeseen consequences.
I've been in the software business for nearly thirty years and I've seen the results of trying to hide bugs rather than fix them. It's not just lag, mate. It's just a generally irritating battle strategy to litter the ground with half-assed spawn points for the sake of spawning anywhere.
That's an entirely separate issue that comes down to gameplay and esthetics.
The lag is the game-crippling issue that needs to be solved before DUST can go anywhere at all.
I support SP rollover.
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4349
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Posted - 2014.01.05 06:44:00 -
[43] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Skihids wrote:Don't play with workarounds, fix the kitten code!
None of these half measures will solve the lag problem if it builds up regardless if the equipment is there or destroyed.
The number one rule for fixing software is to first identify the root cause, then address that specific issue. It's like having a room with a rotten floor. Some of you propose to put up turnstiles that allow only two people in the room at a time so nobody crashes through the floor. Some want to make all but one suit too wide to fit through the door. Others just want to paint the floor. What we need is to pull up the rotten boards and replace them.
You don't need to dream up detour signs to keep people out of the room. It's ineffective, adds complexity, and reduces the fun. Added complexity opens the door to loopholes and unforeseen consequences.
I've been in the software business for nearly thirty years and I've seen the results of trying to hide bugs rather than fix them. It's not just lag, mate. It's just a generally irritating battle strategy to litter the ground with half-assed spawn points for the sake of spawning anywhere. That's an entirely separate issue that comes down to gameplay and esthetics. The lag is the game-crippling issue that needs to be solved before DUST can go anywhere at all.
I really don't see any point in arguing about it. Everyone has a different opinion, a different solution and more times than not not going to be the end result. It's a generally mutually accepted that Equipment Spam is a problem and it needs to be fixed. How it's done is entirely up to CCP.
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RKKR
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
611
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Posted - 2014.01.05 08:41:00 -
[44] - Quote
Hopefully they won't pick a solution that makes playing support roles boring and even more useless than now. |
DeeJay One
Guardian Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
175
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Posted - 2014.01.05 08:47:00 -
[45] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
2.) Bandwidth. Same as above, there are similar measures in place for certain objects in Eve Online - most notably drones. I sort of understand what was proposed but I don't feel safe commenting on it until I genuinely know.
If you need something clarified feel free to ask :)
As for the people claiming that the number of equipment isn't the root cause for lag - true, but we seem to be unable to do something new to help CCP fix it, there were more than enough reports and videos and we can't fix the code ourselves.
This thread is about future development for equipment and bringing it more in line with what was expected to be in game, as certainly the amount of equipment brought down by a single player wasn't intended. |
Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4350
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 12:55:00 -
[46] - Quote
DeeJay One wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
2.) Bandwidth. Same as above, there are similar measures in place for certain objects in Eve Online - most notably drones. I sort of understand what was proposed but I don't feel safe commenting on it until I genuinely know.
If you need something clarified feel free to ask :) As for the people claiming that the number of equipment isn't the root cause for lag - true, but we seem to be unable to do something new to help CCP fix it, there were more than enough reports and videos and we can't fix the code ourselves. This thread is about future development for equipment and bringing it more in line with what was expected to be in game, as certainly the amount of equipment brought down by a single player wasn't intended.
Thread was about sanity-checking a potentially disastrous alternative. Just to make the distinction.
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DeeJay One
Guardian Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
180
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Posted - 2014.01.06 12:07:00 -
[47] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
Thread was about sanity-checking a potentially disastrous alternative. Just to make the distinction.
Crap, my hijacking attempt didn't work ;) |
I-Shayz-I
I-----I
1817
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 17:51:00 -
[48] - Quote
A way to encourage smarter placement of equipment would be to have very limited amounts of them, but let them have a reduced profile.
For instance, in order to scan or detect prototype nanohives/uplinks, you need a prototype scanner.
This way, you can hide an uplink in a corner without everyone knowing where it is. It also reduces the amount of stuff displayed on the HUD and radar, and will improve almost everything.
Links:
List of Most Important Threads
I make logistics videos!
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Poonmunch
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
760
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Posted - 2014.01.06 17:59:00 -
[49] - Quote
How about team equipment limits? We do it with vehicles, if I'm not mistaken.
Munch
Dedicated Sniper.
Minmatar Patriot (6).
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Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
Public Disorder.
1438
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Posted - 2014.01.06 18:21:00 -
[50] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Skihids wrote:Don't play with workarounds, fix the kitten code!
None of these half measures will solve the lag problem if it builds up regardless if the equipment is there or destroyed.
The number one rule for fixing software is to first identify the root cause, then address that specific issue. It's like having a room with a rotten floor. Some of you propose to put up turnstiles that allow only two people in the room at a time so nobody crashes through the floor. Some want to make all but one suit too wide to fit through the door. Others just want to paint the floor. What we need is to pull up the rotten boards and replace them.
You don't need to dream up detour signs to keep people out of the room. It's ineffective, adds complexity, and reduces the fun. Added complexity opens the door to loopholes and unforeseen consequences.
I've been in the software business for nearly thirty years and I've seen the results of trying to hide bugs rather than fix them. It's not just lag, mate. It's just a generally irritating battle strategy to litter the ground with half-assed spawn points for the sake of spawning anywhere. That's an entirely separate issue that comes down to gameplay and esthetics. The lag is the game-crippling issue that needs to be solved before DUST can go anywhere at all. I really don't see any point in arguing about it. Everyone has a different opinion, a different solution and more times than not not going to be the end result. It's a generally mutually accepted that Equipment Spam is a problem and it needs to be fixed. How it's done is entirely up to CCP.
I've got nothing against your or anybody else's suggestions. Sometime the car needs a new paint job or to have brake pads changed. But those worthwhile things are not gonna cut it when a main bearing needs replacing.
I support SP rollover.
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4364
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Posted - 2014.01.06 18:54:00 -
[51] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:
I've got nothing against your or anybody else's suggestions. Sometime the car needs a new paint job or to have brake pads changed. But those worthwhile things are not gonna cut it when a main bearing needs replacing.
Then it's best not to pretend to be the mechanic and let him do his job
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RKKR
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
620
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Posted - 2014.01.06 19:02:00 -
[52] - Quote
Reducing the limit of equipment or **** like that won't work, sure it would maybe help the game but not the support role.
Your squads moves to a different position? Too bad you already dropped that hive, you are now useless.
Out of hives? Too bad that your gayass teammate of a tanker destroyed the supply depot.
Teamlimit? A douche will just throw all his equipment down at base at the start of a game.
...
Equipment-spam is only possible due to the game mechanics that promote scan-camping on the same spot and the passive use of equipment.
If you guys still want to think in the equipment-box then make it so that equipment gives only a temporary boost
(ammo, health, whatever...or dare I say a negative effect for enemies) within an area. The next 'equipment' could then be thrown down after a cooldown with no need of restocking.
Make people want/need to have a support role near them.
There you go just another idea, sucked right of my thumb.
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RAMB0
Condotta Rouvenor
Gallente Federation
38
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Posted - 2014.01.06 19:16:00 -
[53] - Quote
Remove equiment noisy and visuals. It is annoying and causes lag |
Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4364
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Posted - 2014.01.06 19:16:00 -
[54] - Quote
RKKR wrote:Reducing the limit of equipment or **** like that won't work, sure it would maybe help the game but not the support role.
Your squads moves to a different position? Too bad you already dropped that hive, you are now useless.
Out of hives? Too bad that your gayass teammate of a tanker destroyed the supply depot.
Teamlimit? A douche will just throw all his equipment down at base at the start of a game.
- Your squads moves to a different position? Too bad you already dropped that hive, you are now useless.
It's assumed that when placing down new equipment it would simply over-write the ones you already placed, which speculation states is the intended way of doing things considering that some nanohives allow you to carry more than you have active.
- Out of hives? Too bad that your gayass teammate of a tanker destroyed the supply depot.
This has, does and will always happen.
- Teamlimit? A douche will just throw all his equipment down at base at the start of a game.
Team-limitations are something I'm not directly opposed to, if done correctly. This would not be the correct way of going about it. The best way to go about team-limitations and reducing the 'spam' of equipment would be to revert to having active equipment maximums per player, which already exist for single variations of equipment.
An Ishukone Gauged Nanohive cannot have more than three active but you can combine it with other types and circumvent the limitation.
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2647
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Posted - 2014.01.06 19:31:00 -
[55] - Quote
Poonmunch wrote:How about team equipment limits? We do it with vehicles, if I'm not mistaken.
Munch
I think those artificial restrictions should be removed too. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
Public Disorder.
1439
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Posted - 2014.01.06 19:37:00 -
[56] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:
I've got nothing against your or anybody else's suggestions. Sometime the car needs a new paint job or to have brake pads changed. But those worthwhile things are not gonna cut it when a main bearing needs replacing.
Then it's best not to pretend to be the mechanic and let him do his job
Evidence-to-date in DUST's development history indicates that is a bad idea.
The risk of a band-aid patch here is high, and it would only come back to haunt us later. There needs to be voices in these threads telling CCP that the desired course of action is to address the underlying issues.
Speaking only for myself, ofc, that is the desired course of action.
I support SP rollover.
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
1386
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Posted - 2014.01.06 19:38:00 -
[57] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Quote:8. Do you feel equipment spam is a problem and if so what are your thoughts on possible solutions for littered uplinks and stacked nanohives?
by The Council of Planetary Management (CPM)
Use of equipment is obviously encouraged but abuse of any system to the point where itGÇÖs detrimental to gameplay is obviously a problem. So, yeah, itGÇÖs definitely an issue. WeGÇÖd like to approach the problem by first increasing the PG/CPU costs along with role-specific skills that reduce those costs to discourage mass fitting of drop uplinks and nanohives, and put them back into the hands of the specialists. Eventually, weGÇÖd want to introduce the ability for the enemy to hack a piece of equipment and take ownership of it (to encourage smarter placement of equipment instead of dumping dozens in plain sight) and have War Barge-fired EMP strikes that destroy all equipment over a very large area. I understand there's a significant level of crystal balling here as we [the community] don't know any details pertaining to what changes will take place, but after some time to consider my words, I feel it needs to be said. Please proceed with caution on this, I beg you. Equipment Spam covers a wide variety of symptoms ranging from general in-battle strategy to frame-rate drops, among other things. It is important to not simply view this as the result of laxxed fittings on equipment items and while I'd rather not commit the logical fallacy of a 'slippery slope' argument, logic would dictate that regardless of the fitting costs, if a player wants to spam the item they're going to do it no matter what. At the moment a large part of the issue, I (and others) feel, is that the problem revolves around the ability to set a pre-determined suit for the purpose and simply switch it out at a supply depot after dropping off multiple types of the same piece of equipment. Increasing the fitting costs won't hamper this much, I feel, due to the fact that the suit's sole purpose is to put down the equipment - no other. There would be no reason to fit other modules or high-grade weaponry if it meant being able to perform the same task as before. While my fears may be premature, my concern is solely revolving around the ideal that increasing resource costs may very well downgrade the intended usability by other roles and restrict it to a more narrow field that still is capable of being used in the same problem areas. That's all I have to say, thank you. what if you didnt need to deploy equipment to use it? say if you fit nanohives on your suit, if you wanted to give ammo to someone you would just run up to them and stand near them. if you fitted a dropuplink your squadmates would simply spawn near you. and if you wanted to use explosives... jk, you still need to deploy those lol not having to deploy nanohives means if your squad sticks together then they wont run out of ammo as long as someone has one. a scout can carry uplinks and suddenly he becomes a powerful asset. staying off scan and alowing his squad to deploy near objectives or take advantage of weak defenses. and the best part is that theres no equipment spam! which means no/less frame rate drops.
I have a Dragonfly scout I use just to drop uplinks behind line or early in matches. Didn't links and hives self destruct when a merc died in the closed beta?
GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride."
Hunter S. Thompson
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2648
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Posted - 2014.01.06 19:46:00 -
[58] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Quote:8. Do you feel equipment spam is a problem and if so what are your thoughts on possible solutions for littered uplinks and stacked nanohives?
by The Council of Planetary Management (CPM)
Use of equipment is obviously encouraged but abuse of any system to the point where itGÇÖs detrimental to gameplay is obviously a problem. So, yeah, itGÇÖs definitely an issue. WeGÇÖd like to approach the problem by first increasing the PG/CPU costs along with role-specific skills that reduce those costs to discourage mass fitting of drop uplinks and nanohives, and put them back into the hands of the specialists. Eventually, weGÇÖd want to introduce the ability for the enemy to hack a piece of equipment and take ownership of it (to encourage smarter placement of equipment instead of dumping dozens in plain sight) and have War Barge-fired EMP strikes that destroy all equipment over a very large area. I understand there's a significant level of crystal balling here as we [the community] don't know any details pertaining to what changes will take place, but after some time to consider my words, I feel it needs to be said. Please proceed with caution on this, I beg you. Equipment Spam covers a wide variety of symptoms ranging from general in-battle strategy to frame-rate drops, among other things. It is important to not simply view this as the result of laxxed fittings on equipment items and while I'd rather not commit the logical fallacy of a 'slippery slope' argument, logic would dictate that regardless of the fitting costs, if a player wants to spam the item they're going to do it no matter what. At the moment a large part of the issue, I (and others) feel, is that the problem revolves around the ability to set a pre-determined suit for the purpose and simply switch it out at a supply depot after dropping off multiple types of the same piece of equipment. Increasing the fitting costs won't hamper this much, I feel, due to the fact that the suit's sole purpose is to put down the equipment - no other. There would be no reason to fit other modules or high-grade weaponry if it meant being able to perform the same task as before. While my fears may be premature, my concern is solely revolving around the ideal that increasing resource costs may very well downgrade the intended usability by other roles and restrict it to a more narrow field that still is capable of being used in the same problem areas. That's all I have to say, thank you. what if you didnt need to deploy equipment to use it? say if you fit nanohives on your suit, if you wanted to give ammo to someone you would just run up to them and stand near them. if you fitted a dropuplink your squadmates would simply spawn near you. and if you wanted to use explosives... jk, you still need to deploy those lol not having to deploy nanohives means if your squad sticks together then they wont run out of ammo as long as someone has one. a scout can carry uplinks and suddenly he becomes a powerful asset. staying off scan and alowing his squad to deploy near objectives or take advantage of weak defenses. and the best part is that theres no equipment spam! which means no/less frame rate drops. I have a Dragonfly scout I use just to drop uplinks behind line or early in matches. Didn't links and hives self destruct when a merc died in the closed beta?
No. There is one type of uplink that does, but nobody uses it for that reason.
Support logis die too regularly to use that mechanic. I'd have to abandon the job. |
dreth longbow
Bank of DUST 514
20
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 19:53:00 -
[59] - Quote
Wait, lets think about this.
Is to much equipment the problem?
Should we limit them or expire them after a set period?
Should raise the fitting cost on them?
Should we limit the ability to change fits at a depot?
I say no to all this! Lets think about it not in a cause and effect issue but as a game issue.
Problem: All these spawn points and nano hives make it so the frame rate is so bad it give me a headache and everything is so jittery that I can't even walk around without bumping into walls and falling off buildings.
The real problem is not the spawn points or nano hives but the frame rate, so lets not nerf the equipment but fix the frame rate. How might that be done?
1) Fix the data flow between server and user, if a player is not in the area where all the equipment is then don't send his ps3 that data so then he is not effected by the links and hives.
2) Add more server processing to handle the rendering.
3) Add more band width to handle the transport.
4) Set a thresh hold for when frame rate drops below a point, then lower resolution is deployed to increase frame rate (I think we all would agree that lower resolution is preferred to choppy game play).
These 4 solutions are all viable solutions to a problem and should be looked at first instead of a knee jerk reaction of modifying equipment or user use of equipment to increase frame rate. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2649
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 20:06:00 -
[60] - Quote
dreth longbow wrote:Wait, lets think about this.
Is to much equipment the problem?
Should we limit them or expire them after a set period?
Should raise the fitting cost on them?
Should we limit the ability to change fits at a depot?
I say no to all this! Lets think about it not in a cause and effect issue but as a game issue.
Problem: All these spawn points and nano hives make it so the frame rate is so bad it give me a headache and everything is so jittery that I can't even walk around without bumping into walls and falling off buildings.
The real problem is not the spawn points or nano hives but the frame rate, so lets not nerf the equipment but fix the frame rate. How might that be done?
1) Fix the data flow between server and user, if a player is not in the area where all the equipment is then don't send his ps3 that data so then he is not effected by the links and hives.
2) Add more server processing to handle the rendering.
3) Add more band width to handle the transport.
4) Set a thresh hold for when frame rate drops below a point, then lower resolution is deployed to increase frame rate (I think we all would agree that lower resolution is preferred to choppy game play).
These 4 solutions are all viable solutions to a problem and should be looked at first instead of a knee jerk reaction of modifying equipment or user use of equipment to increase frame rate.
Why even transmit the location of equipment regularly?
Why not only when equipment is laid down or is removed? It doesn't move. It doesn't change orientation. Just cache it locally on the PS3 and let the system handle display. If the PS3 can't handle the display, simplify it.
It's not like server interaction is needed unless the merc is requesting supply from a hive. |
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Hobo on Fire
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
98
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 20:07:00 -
[61] - Quote
I'm going to echo that this problem needs a real solution to fix, not a band aid. However, sometimes you need to use the first aid kit before you get to the hospital, so alternatives (depending on how easy/difficult they are to implement) should at least be brainstormed. The suggestions going around that the equipment spam is related to an audio issue is a perfect example; disabling the audio effect for uplinks and nanohives would have zero real effect on gameplay. I would gladly give up a little immersion to make the game more playable.
My other ideas (admittedly more band-aid in nature than solutions, I'm not a programmer)
-Enable destruction of equipment by friendly fire in all game modes. It will help the players self regulate.
-Equipment dropped inside the "bubble" of another equipment item would instantly pop, without being activated, similar to how they behave in the MCC. This would at least force the spammers to spread out the equipment over a much wider area, making them and the equipment more vulnerable to enemy action. CRUs could have a similar effect with drop uplinks, and supply depots with nanohives. I do think that putting a single uplink at a supply depot/ammo around a CRU should be a valid tactic for fortifying a position. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2649
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 20:15:00 -
[62] - Quote
None of the proposed restrictions would solve the frame rate issue and all would reduce options and fun.
Team wide restrictions? People could still dump everything in one pile.
Individual restrictions? People could still dump everything in one pile.
Proximity restrictions? One type of equipment could lock out all others within a useable radius. Someone drops an RE and it locks out uplinks and hives? This gets worse when we get deployable shield bubbles and other types.
What's that? You say RE's aren't an issue? You mean six or more piled up on an objective don't cause lag? Two dozen stuck to the bumper of a LAV isn't causing the frame rate to crawl? Hmm, maybe it's the fact that there is no animation, not the shear count of objects in the vicinity.
So maybe streamlining or simplifying the sound/animation would completely eliminate the lag issue? |
lee corwood
Knights Of Ender
Public Disorder.
326
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 20:34:00 -
[63] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:what if you didnt need to deploy equipment to use it? say if you fit nanohives on your suit, if you wanted to give ammo to someone you would just run up to them and stand near them. if you fitted a dropuplink your squadmates would simply spawn near you. and if you wanted to use explosives... jk, you still need to deploy those lol not having to deploy nanohives means if your squad sticks together then they wont run out of ammo as long as someone has one. a scout can carry uplinks and suddenly he becomes a powerful asset. staying off scan and alowing his squad to deploy near objectives or take advantage of weak defenses. and the best part is that theres no equipment spam! which means no/less frame rate drops.
I think that's actually a good idea in theory for the ammo but is flawed in many other ways. Their are hives out there that also allow you to heal the user a tiny bit. Does this mean if they are near you, they also heal you as well as give you ammo? If so, I see a lot of less dedicated players dropping the rep tool entirely.
Secondly, I see this going horribly wrong for those with spawn points. Poor blue running from a tank and you spawn right next to him, stationary. Splat. I don't think we need even more reason to hate issues with spawn points right now...
Minmatar Logisis | Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
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lee corwood
Knights Of Ender
Public Disorder.
326
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 20:46:00 -
[64] - Quote
Skihids wrote:
Why even transmit the location of equipment regularly?
Why not only when equipment is laid down or is removed? It doesn't move. It doesn't change orientation. Just cache it locally on the PS3 and let the system handle display. If the PS3 can't handle the display, simplify it.
It's not like server interaction is needed unless the merc is requesting supply from a hive.
I sort of agree with this. For one, the sound is absolutely deafening when I run to an objective and my team has laid down 28 nanohives. It's irritating and I wish my flux grenades could knock out about 22 of them. That is ridiculous and not needed.
In other ways, it will make stealthier characters more unnoticed. I can't tell you how many times I found a sniper because of the big blue bubble of the ammo/hive recycling over and over again. Pro tip for bbs, don't lay down hives/uplinks right next to your sniper for this reason, especially if you're not the sniper!!!
The bubble half the time is what leads me to know where an uplink is, especially on hilly terrain when I don't have a scanner. I think it helps the support role by giving uplinks an edge if they don't have the 'here I am bubble'. However, I think this will just bring more flak about the scanners being overpowered. As a ballerina myself, I still think the scanner is a super xray machine that needs to be reevaluated.
Minmatar Logisis | Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4368
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 21:11:00 -
[65] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:
I've got nothing against your or anybody else's suggestions. Sometime the car needs a new paint job or to have brake pads changed. But those worthwhile things are not gonna cut it when a main bearing needs replacing.
Then it's best not to pretend to be the mechanic and let him do his job Evidence-to-date in DUST's development history indicates that is a bad idea. The risk of a band-aid patch here is high, and it would only come back to haunt us later. There needs to be voices in these threads telling CCP that the desired course of action is to address the underlying issues. Speaking only for myself, ofc, that is the desired course of action.
That's an even more dangerous move, I feel, because the player-base will never unanimously agree to any specific ideal or circumstance; this thread is proof enough of that. Band-aid patches usually work a lot better than trying over-arching themes and mass changes due to the severity of said change. You're more likely to **** people off when you implement those. Such said, I'd much rather we take it slowly and work with small scalpel changes until we find a sweet spot instead of spending months using extremes in either direction until we, by pure luck or chance, find what we're looking for.
Hobo on Fire wrote: The suggestions going around that the equipment spam is related to an audio issue is a perfect example; disabling the audio effect for uplinks and nanohives would have zero real effect on gameplay. I would gladly give up a little immersion to make the game more playable.
Removing the audio effect would make drop-uplinks/nanohive locations entirely dependent on active scanners and visual spotting; the latter of which is impossible at long distances. You'd be spending the entire match trying to figure out where they're spawning from using only the general location they keep popping up from. It'd be like trying to find the source of bed bugs using only the occurrences in which you saw them.
Despite this, there's no evidence that the audio is the direct cause of the problem. It's plausible, yes, but the graphical factor is far more prominent as I've displayed here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1648656#post1648656
Skihids wrote:None of the proposed restrictions would solve the frame rate issue and all would reduce options and fun.
Team wide restrictions? People could still dump everything in one pile.
Individual restrictions? People could still dump everything in one pile.
Proximity restrictions? One type of equipment could lock out all others within a useable radius. Someone drops an RE and it locks out uplinks and hives? This gets worse when we get deployable shield bubbles and other types.
Individual restrictions would force a team initiative to do that, which becomes more of a time-involved-to-reward scenario. Every single player on the team would have to drop each piece of equipment individually and replace it each time it was removed; reducing the time spent actually participating in combat. It would focus specialists.
Proximity restrictions are a good solution but I don't think it's the most optimal. Even if the proximity restrictions were based on type (drop uplinks only affected drop uplinks, for example) it would just make placement more frustrating as someone else takes up the usable spot in a very terrible area and you'd have to invest time in removing the erroneous placement to get a better one out. It's also very susceptible to 'griefing' this way but I won't assume that it will automatically occur that way.
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dreth longbow
Bank of DUST 514
22
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 21:15:00 -
[66] - Quote
Skihids wrote:dreth longbow wrote:Wait, lets think about this.
Is to much equipment the problem?
Should we limit them or expire them after a set period?
Should raise the fitting cost on them?
Should we limit the ability to change fits at a depot?
I say no to all this! Lets think about it not in a cause and effect issue but as a game issue.
Problem: All these spawn points and nano hives make it so the frame rate is so bad it give me a headache and everything is so jittery that I can't even walk around without bumping into walls and falling off buildings.
The real problem is not the spawn points or nano hives but the frame rate, so lets not nerf the equipment but fix the frame rate. How might that be done?
1) Fix the data flow between server and user, if a player is not in the area where all the equipment is then don't send his ps3 that data so then he is not effected by the links and hives.
2) Add more server processing to handle the rendering.
3) Add more band width to handle the transport.
4) Set a thresh hold for when frame rate drops below a point, then lower resolution is deployed to increase frame rate (I think we all would agree that lower resolution is preferred to choppy game play).
These 4 solutions are all viable solutions to a problem and should be looked at first instead of a knee jerk reaction of modifying equipment or user use of equipment to increase frame rate. Why even transmit the location of equipment regularly? Why not only when equipment is laid down or is removed? It doesn't move. It doesn't change orientation. Just cache it locally on the PS3 and let the system handle display. If the PS3 can't handle the display, simplify it. It's not like server interaction is needed unless the merc is requesting supply from a hive.
Exactly, works for me.
Lets all follow the KISS principal, in this scenario only new data would need to be sent when it is destroyed or used up, and then the ps3 updates it's cache. Frame rate problem solved
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RKKR
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
620
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 22:07:00 -
[67] - Quote
What do you think about the triage and ammo types?
Maybe change the skill that for each level you can maintain 1 hive, this will have a maximum of 5 hives active at all times.
That's like 3 gauged and 2 triages, that's all I need for my team (spread out).
I guess a team will still be able to spam them if everyone does it.
God I wish I was in more games where people spammed nano hives, because I'm always out of ammo when I don't carry hives myself :P.
An active way of support still sounds like more fun, what do you think about that? |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2649
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 23:09:00 -
[68] - Quote
RKKR wrote:What do you think about the triage and ammo types?
Maybe change the skill that for each level you can maintain 1 hive, this will have a maximum of 5 hives active at all times.
That's like 3 gauged and 2 triages, that's all I need for my team (spread out).
I guess a team will still be able to spam them if everyone does it.
God I wish I was in more games where people spammed nano hives, because I'm always out of ammo when I don't carry hives myself :P.
An active way of support still sounds like more fun, what do you think about that?
No, I've got a single ADV Logi suit where I can drop 2 sets of 2 ammo/repping and 2 triage hives, none of them overlapping. It's great support for a Domination match. On Skirmish they won't be within yards of each other. |
Auris Lionesse
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
44
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 23:15:00 -
[69] - Quote
Equipment bandwidth on suits.
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
3096
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 23:23:00 -
[70] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:
imo logis dont need a light weapon. if theyre doing their job, then theyll be too busy to shoot anything. logis should just have a side arm
I have multipule jobs, none of which involve becoming your slave and sitting in the back repping and resupplying people 24/7.
Also, while we are talking about being limited to their jobs, why can Assaults and Commandos carry equipment?
Support's not their job, so let's remove it.
Tanker > Logi > Scout > AV > Heavy > Assault > Sniper > Ninja > Forum Warrior.
And more weapons than you can count!
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4370
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Posted - 2014.01.07 01:31:00 -
[71] - Quote
Atiim wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:
imo logis dont need a light weapon. if theyre doing their job, then theyll be too busy to shoot anything. logis should just have a side arm
I have multipule jobs, none of which involve becoming your slave and sitting in the back repping and resupplying people 24/7. Also, while we are talking about being limited to their jobs, why can Assaults and Commandos carry equipment? Support's not their job, so let's remove it.
Being limited to one equipment slot severely limits a suit's capabilities. I run a scanner but I'm completely dependent on others for ammunition. Scouts have actually been asking for more equipment slots ever since they removed the Type-II variant, though I'm not sure that would do them justice as of late considering the plethora of other problems that is ailing the scout currently.
In regards to Logi's having only side-arms, that is not the purpose of this discussion and I'm already discouraged that the thread has devolved into a discussion on equipment as it is. Please bring it to another thread.
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RKKR
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
623
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Posted - 2014.01.07 10:30:00 -
[72] - Quote
Yeah because the current mechanics on how equipment and support works don't contribute to the problems you wrote down in your first post...I guess we can't discuss that and stick to same old crappy system  .
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4382
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Posted - 2014.01.07 12:04:00 -
[73] - Quote
RKKR wrote:Yeah because the current mechanics on how equipment and support works don't contribute to the problems you wrote down in your first post...I guess we can't discuss that and stick to same old crappy system .
I don't understand this statement.
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Protected Void
Endless Hatred
218
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Posted - 2014.01.07 12:06:00 -
[74] - Quote
I don't know Dust's engine in detail, but from general digital sound knowledge, I would assume that if equipment sound is causing lag, it's most likely to be reverb related.
Ie: the calculations needed to apply a reverb effect (make audio sound like it's in an actual room or hallway) are very processor-intensive, compared to just playing an audio clip. Grab any DAW and loop some sound while applying a reverb effect. Watch CPU load rise as you increase decay time of the effect. Add more sound sources to the same reverb and the load might increase exponentially, depending on how the sound mixing is done. Reverb effects that simulate smaller rooms or rooms with highly reflective walls might also be more resource intensive, since they have to calculate how the sound bounces of walls multiple times.
In any case, limiting the sound emitted from equipment in some way could only be good anyway, even if it doesn't create any lag at all - the sound of 5+ nanohives tighly clustered together in a small room is just a headache inducing, useless sensory overload anyway. Voice comms are impossible when in the middle of that racket.
I think nanohives should have their audio muted if they're closer to a nanohive from the same team than, say, 6 or 7 meters. Or at the very least, the combined volume of multiple hives should be lowered to a more tolerable threshold, and only a few of them should be routed to the reverb effect. |
RKKR
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
624
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 12:08:00 -
[75] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:RKKR wrote:Yeah because the current mechanics on how equipment and support works don't contribute to the problems you wrote down in your first post...I guess we can't discuss that and stick to same old crappy system . I don't understand this statement.
I thought it was weird you said " I'm already discouraged that the thread has devolved into a discussion on equipment" while the problem is related to equipment.
Maybe I'm not on the same level? |
Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4383
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Posted - 2014.01.07 12:09:00 -
[76] - Quote
Protected Void wrote:I don't know Dust's engine in detail, but from general digital sound knowledge, I would assume that if equipment sound is causing lag, it's most likely to be reverb related.
Ie: the calculations needed to apply a reverb effect (make audio sound like it's in an actual room or hallway) are very processor-intensive, compared to just playing an audio clip. Grab any DAW and loop some sound while applying a reverb effect. Watch CPU load rise as you increase decay time of the effect. Add more sound sources to the same reverb and the load might increase exponentially, depending on how the sound mixing is done. Reverb effects that simulate smaller rooms or rooms with highly reflective walls might also be more resource intensive, since they have to calculate how the sound bounces of walls multiple times.
In any case, limiting the sound emitted from equipment in some way could only be good anyway, even if the sound isn't creating any lag at all - the sound of 5+ nanohives tighly clustered together in a small room is just a headache inducing, useless sensory overload anyway. Voice comms are impossible when in the middle of that racket.
I think nanohives should have their audio muted if they're closer to a nanohive from the same team than, say, 6 or 7 meters. Or at the very least, the combined volume of multiple hives should be lowered to a more tolerable threshold, and only a few of them should be routed to the reverb effect.
That's a pretty logical assessment. I'll have to get a team together and test that out. All of my previous tests have been in the outdoors.
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dreth longbow
Bank of DUST 514
23
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Posted - 2014.01.07 20:23:00 -
[77] - Quote
dreth longbow wrote:Wait, lets think about this.
Is to much equipment the problem?
Should we limit them or expire them after a set period?
Should raise the fitting cost on them?
Should we limit the ability to change fits at a depot?
I say no to all this! Lets think about it not in a cause and effect issue but as a game issue.
Problem: All these spawn points and nano hives make it so the frame rate is so bad it give me a headache and everything is so jittery that I can't even walk around without bumping into walls and falling off buildings.
The real problem is not the spawn points or nano hives but the frame rate, so lets not nerf the equipment but fix the frame rate. How might that be done?
1) Fix the data flow between server and user, if a player is not in the area where all the equipment is then don't send his ps3 that data so then he is not effected by the links and hives.
2) Add more server processing to handle the rendering.
3) Add more band width to handle the transport.
4) Set a thresh hold for when frame rate drops below a point, then lower resolution is deployed to increase frame rate (I think we all would agree that lower resolution is preferred to choppy game play).
These 4 solutions are all viable solutions to a problem and should be looked at first instead of a knee jerk reaction of modifying equipment or user use of equipment to increase frame rate.
Only one response to my post, do you guys not understand the situation or the solution that I propose?
or are you only capable of talking about modifications to equipment?
Think about the issue - Frame rate
Think about what causes the issue- to much equipment deployed
Now think about why that causes the issue-
-to many items, really? we have sub-par graphics no water, little grass, no bushes to hide in, etc
- sound of items, really? this is the profile of an item whatever it is char, lav, hav, equipment etc. Yes you can lower it and save processor time as you can do with everything.
Think what is the real problem not the manifestation of the problem (bad frame rate), bottom line is bandwidth and CPU power.
Bandwidth is in 2 parts, 1 what the user has and 2 what the server has. 1 most users have sufficient band width or the they would see problems in other games or downloading movies or it would not be wide spread problem, therefore it is server bandwidth. Solution CCP buys more bandwidth, issue solved no "fixes" need to be released into game changing the equipment.
CPU is in 2 parts also, 1) what the user has, again not a problem on that end, 2) CPU power of CCP servers, that is the problem also more power = better frame rate, better graphics, better game flow = better game more players etc.
Solution CCP needs to stop wasting time trying to "fix" things and only make them worse and fix the problem by buying more bandwidth and faster servers.
Problem solved no coding involved by sub-par programmers with little quality control. |
Jaran Vilktar
The Gauldar Tactical Alliance
1
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Posted - 2014.02.23 01:08:00 -
[78] - Quote
I think I have an idea that has probably been suggested in one way or the other by my fellow mercs but i'll leave my idea here regardless. We all know how equipment spam is both annoying but handy, many don't really mind the problems it causes because the owners of said equipment rarely actually use these areas other than just to feed on WP when their teammates so much as go near them  (Ok I'm just making a long reply of roundabout stuff that's already been said so i'll just cut to the chase).
These items could be added to the game in an attempt to fix these problems:
1. A "Corrosive" Flux grenade variation that (DOES NOT HACK equipment) releases a virus on a designated area to serve a reversed role to the original purpose of said equipment.
2. A...  I don't know, Pathogenic Pulse Sidearm? Does basically the same as the above item but has a cool sound effect, because who doesn't like those?
3. A new type of infantry equipment that sends signals, pulses or shoots...chips? that send computer viruses to nearby hostile equipment to corrupt its data and reverse their intended purpose.
Upon using any of the above items hostile equipment will enter a "Corrrupted" (Unfriendly, Mean, Evil, Traitorous, Negative, Infected... i'm sure you can think of a better name than me.) state in which said equipment would become a hindrance to it's owner and his team. For example: a Nanohive gets infected? It no longer gives ammo and triage but if you stay near it long enough it begins to "Corrode" a players ammunition and stop the function of shield and armor repairers, infected Uplink? Players want to use it? sure let them, but take half their shield, armor and ammo upon spawning as a result, An R/E gets infected? Oh, I see you're an excellent ally and a real asset to our team, how about I just blow your **** up when you get close to me? (I'm sure you know where i'm going with this by now. ) If their equipment becomes "Corrupted" players would have no choice other than destroy it rather than have it become a hindrance (needless to say... NO WP 4 U!).
That is basically my idea, just a raw thought that came out of my mind not thinking of how this could harm me and my fellow mercs later on, I don't even know if you guys will see this reply or not but if you do, I hope you give it some thought. |
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