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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
4337
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Posted - 2014.01.04 20:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
There's a lot of propositions and I didn't expect the thread to take off as well as it did (Murphy's Law addendum of Blue-Tags I guess).
Few solutions I personally agree with:
1.) Distancing. If you place a drop-uplink down, or someone else does, no-one can place another one within say, a 50m radius of it, as an example. There are similar measures in place for certain objects in Eve Online. I like this solution because it focuses more on tactical placement rather than whatever you can cram in at the time.
2.) Bandwidth. Same as above, there are similar measures in place for certain objects in Eve Online - most notably drones. I sort of understand what was proposed but I don't feel safe commenting on it until I genuinely know.
3.) Limitations based on the item's deployment amount. An Ishukone Gauged Nanohive is the best, for this, as you can carry four and have three active. That being said, if the teams were limited so that each player could only put down the contiguous maximum of his highest tiered item, in this case three, regardless of how many 'variations' of said item he'd have, we'd notice a lot more thought put into placement as well as a significant reduction in the spam.
If every single person on a team dropped every single variation of each item, to it's maximum, you'd see: Nanohives: 544 Dropuplinks: 528
But if they could only put down the maximum that single piece of equipment would allow, subtracting ones already placed: Nanohives: 48 Dropuplinks: 48
It's important to remember that while we, the community, can suggest different ways of going about this, we're not always going to agree on every aspect. Some of the community feel that it's perfectly acceptable to not have any limitations at all, so long as it doesn't infringe on game-play. I can understand this. However, it's important to remember that the decision CCP makes on the solution is ultimately up to them and not everyone may be happy with the solution, so fancy the thought of all outcomes
EDIT: I also am very opposed to equipment type limitations based on class specific roles. All this generally does is infringes on personal customization styles and ultimately doesn't resolve the problem. If a Logi is the only one capable of fitting Nanohives, it's not going to stop anyone from fitting a logi suit solely to spam hives. What it will stop, however, is someone wanting to use them for whatever reason on any other suit.
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THUNDERGROOVE
ZionTCD Public Disorder.
449
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Posted - 2014.01.04 21:01:00 -
[32] - Quote
I specced into my logi suit and equipment initially so I can logi for myself. Let's face it, most logis are trash at supporting a team anywho and I since I'm never guaranteed a decent logi I get penalized for it not because someone made a couple lag bombs and people complain in pubs, not because every PC match is a slideshow, but because CCP can't even into memory management.
I've tested it plenty times and even after a "lag bomb" is setup and destroyed the lag persists. Which, to my understanding means either the objects were likely never deleted (Or garbage collected because there is still an instance of it laying around) from memory thus causing it to build up and build up until everyone is lagging.
Ghost Kaisar wrote:How about instead of working ways to get rid of large amounts of equipment at once (EMP'S), how about we just put a time limit on how long the equipment can be out before it self-destructs?
It would help lessen the spam, as equipment would self-regulate itself, and would encourage logi's to carry around the equipment and deploy it when NEEDED, not just willy nilly.
Exceptions to the rules would be Spawn Links and Remotes. They have a purpose in being dropped, and as such would be exempt of "being left too long".
How do you guys feel about this? When I play by myself I setup equipment in useful spots then switch to my heavy suit. Not my fault I can't play by myself and expect a logi to be there with decent equipment and if they are they're probably worrying about their squad mates more.
ZionTCD Director & Ammar Loyalist
Amarr Sentinel | Amarr Logi | Losematar Scout
What is a signature?
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Flint Beastgood III
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
424
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Posted - 2014.01.05 01:27:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:How about instead of working ways to get rid of large amounts of equipment at once (EMP'S), how about we just put a time limit on how long the equipment can be out before it self-destructs?
It would help lessen the spam, as equipment would self-regulate itself, and would encourage logi's to carry around the equipment and deploy it when NEEDED, not just willy nilly.
Exceptions to the rules would be Spawn Links and Remotes. They have a purpose in being dropped, and as such would be exempt of "being left too long".
How do you guys feel about this?
+1 I'm all for this. It's a start.
Gÿó +¦ +¦ Gÿó
Trained Skills
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abarkrishna
WarRavens
257
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Posted - 2014.01.05 02:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
The biggest issue i see with "equipment spam" Is the result in has on the game. Poor frame rate and lag. The biggest culprit of spam is uplinks.
My thoughts would be simple. Place grids on the map and limit total individual equipment in each section of the grid. So in each section your team can place a total of so many uplinks and so many nanohives. When more than the allowed number gets thrown down one simply disappears. I believe this would put real tactical placement of equipment back into the game. The battle will always move depending on the time and strategies being deployed. Raising the cost will do nothing to stop the spam as OP had said. There is no arguing that.
No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2.
When will they learn!
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Sunken 1990 Rock
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.01.05 04:20:00 -
[35] - Quote
I think if you actually had to take the time to set up the Equipment it would solve problem just a little, you can throw those around in a fire fight so easily. And why not have a Passive Equipment that lets others spawn on you when Enemy are not in range. It will have limits like the Up-links but in more of just a supportive role.
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
2634
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Posted - 2014.01.05 04:30:00 -
[36] - Quote
Don't play with workarounds, fix the kitten code!
None of these half measures will solve the lag problem if it builds up regardless if the equipment is there or destroyed.
The number one rule for fixing software is to first identify the root cause, then address that specific issue. It's like having a room with a rotten floor. Some of you propose to put up turnstiles that allow only two people in the room at a time so nobody crashes through the floor. Some want to make all but one suit too wide to fit through the door. Others just want to paint the floor. What we need is to pull up the rotten boards and replace them.
You don't need to dream up detour signs to keep people out of the room. It's ineffective, adds complexity, and reduces the fun. Added complexity opens the door to loopholes and unforeseen consequences.
I've been in the software business for nearly thirty years and I've seen the results of trying to hide bugs rather than fix them. |
Fire of Prometheus
DUST University Ivy League
2619
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Posted - 2014.01.05 04:43:00 -
[37] - Quote
The solution to uplink spam, is limit it to 1 for every player on the team, same with nanohives. (So 16 nanohives and uplinks on the field at one time)
Eg. (A 16 player match) Player 1 throws down 3 uplinks and 2 nanohives. His team can now only throw down 13 uplinks (16-3=13) and 14 nanohives (16-2=14)
Proud member of the Commndo 6
<3 Commando AK.0
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
4348
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Posted - 2014.01.05 04:57:00 -
[38] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Don't play with workarounds, fix the kitten code!
None of these half measures will solve the lag problem if it builds up regardless if the equipment is there or destroyed.
The number one rule for fixing software is to first identify the root cause, then address that specific issue. It's like having a room with a rotten floor. Some of you propose to put up turnstiles that allow only two people in the room at a time so nobody crashes through the floor. Some want to make all but one suit too wide to fit through the door. Others just want to paint the floor. What we need is to pull up the rotten boards and replace them.
You don't need to dream up detour signs to keep people out of the room. It's ineffective, adds complexity, and reduces the fun. Added complexity opens the door to loopholes and unforeseen consequences.
I've been in the software business for nearly thirty years and I've seen the results of trying to hide bugs rather than fix them.
It's not just lag, mate. It's just a generally irritating battle strategy to litter the ground with half-assed spawn points for the sake of spawning anywhere.
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Marston VC
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1442
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Posted - 2014.01.05 05:30:00 -
[39] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Skihids wrote:Don't play with workarounds, fix the kitten code!
None of these half measures will solve the lag problem if it builds up regardless if the equipment is there or destroyed.
The number one rule for fixing software is to first identify the root cause, then address that specific issue. It's like having a room with a rotten floor. Some of you propose to put up turnstiles that allow only two people in the room at a time so nobody crashes through the floor. Some want to make all but one suit too wide to fit through the door. Others just want to paint the floor. What we need is to pull up the rotten boards and replace them.
You don't need to dream up detour signs to keep people out of the room. It's ineffective, adds complexity, and reduces the fun. Added complexity opens the door to loopholes and unforeseen consequences.
I've been in the software business for nearly thirty years and I've seen the results of trying to hide bugs rather than fix them. It's not just lag, mate. It's just a generally irritating battle strategy to litter the ground with half-assed spawn points for the sake of spawning anywhere.
One flux fixes that. Its not like its really that hard to counter.......
Marston VC, STB Director
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
4349
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Posted - 2014.01.05 05:49:00 -
[40] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Skihids wrote:Don't play with workarounds, fix the kitten code!
None of these half measures will solve the lag problem if it builds up regardless if the equipment is there or destroyed.
The number one rule for fixing software is to first identify the root cause, then address that specific issue. It's like having a room with a rotten floor. Some of you propose to put up turnstiles that allow only two people in the room at a time so nobody crashes through the floor. Some want to make all but one suit too wide to fit through the door. Others just want to paint the floor. What we need is to pull up the rotten boards and replace them.
You don't need to dream up detour signs to keep people out of the room. It's ineffective, adds complexity, and reduces the fun. Added complexity opens the door to loopholes and unforeseen consequences.
I've been in the software business for nearly thirty years and I've seen the results of trying to hide bugs rather than fix them. It's not just lag, mate. It's just a generally irritating battle strategy to litter the ground with half-assed spawn points for the sake of spawning anywhere. One flux fixes that. Its not like its really that hard to counter.......
If it were that simple the problem wouldn't exist, would it O_o
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
2635
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Posted - 2014.01.05 06:04:00 -
[41] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Skihids wrote:Don't play with workarounds, fix the kitten code!
None of these half measures will solve the lag problem if it builds up regardless if the equipment is there or destroyed.
The number one rule for fixing software is to first identify the root cause, then address that specific issue. It's like having a room with a rotten floor. Some of you propose to put up turnstiles that allow only two people in the room at a time so nobody crashes through the floor. Some want to make all but one suit too wide to fit through the door. Others just want to paint the floor. What we need is to pull up the rotten boards and replace them.
You don't need to dream up detour signs to keep people out of the room. It's ineffective, adds complexity, and reduces the fun. Added complexity opens the door to loopholes and unforeseen consequences.
I've been in the software business for nearly thirty years and I've seen the results of trying to hide bugs rather than fix them. It's not just lag, mate. It's just a generally irritating battle strategy to litter the ground with half-assed spawn points for the sake of spawning anywhere.
Irritating because it's effective? Nobody complains about something they don't care about.
The truth is that proper uplink placement gives a team a clear advantage over one that is forced to trickle in from a rear spawn. The former maintains a battlefront while the latter gets cut down at the gates before they can put up a fight.
If you want irritating just get rid of all uplinks. Everyone gets to hike. Maybe dropships get used for transport, maybe not. Either way you spend most of the match walking back to the fight. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Public Disorder.
1430
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 06:29:00 -
[42] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Skihids wrote:Don't play with workarounds, fix the kitten code!
None of these half measures will solve the lag problem if it builds up regardless if the equipment is there or destroyed.
The number one rule for fixing software is to first identify the root cause, then address that specific issue. It's like having a room with a rotten floor. Some of you propose to put up turnstiles that allow only two people in the room at a time so nobody crashes through the floor. Some want to make all but one suit too wide to fit through the door. Others just want to paint the floor. What we need is to pull up the rotten boards and replace them.
You don't need to dream up detour signs to keep people out of the room. It's ineffective, adds complexity, and reduces the fun. Added complexity opens the door to loopholes and unforeseen consequences.
I've been in the software business for nearly thirty years and I've seen the results of trying to hide bugs rather than fix them. It's not just lag, mate. It's just a generally irritating battle strategy to litter the ground with half-assed spawn points for the sake of spawning anywhere.
That's an entirely separate issue that comes down to gameplay and esthetics.
The lag is the game-crippling issue that needs to be solved before DUST can go anywhere at all.
I support SP rollover.
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
4349
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Posted - 2014.01.05 06:44:00 -
[43] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Skihids wrote:Don't play with workarounds, fix the kitten code!
None of these half measures will solve the lag problem if it builds up regardless if the equipment is there or destroyed.
The number one rule for fixing software is to first identify the root cause, then address that specific issue. It's like having a room with a rotten floor. Some of you propose to put up turnstiles that allow only two people in the room at a time so nobody crashes through the floor. Some want to make all but one suit too wide to fit through the door. Others just want to paint the floor. What we need is to pull up the rotten boards and replace them.
You don't need to dream up detour signs to keep people out of the room. It's ineffective, adds complexity, and reduces the fun. Added complexity opens the door to loopholes and unforeseen consequences.
I've been in the software business for nearly thirty years and I've seen the results of trying to hide bugs rather than fix them. It's not just lag, mate. It's just a generally irritating battle strategy to litter the ground with half-assed spawn points for the sake of spawning anywhere. That's an entirely separate issue that comes down to gameplay and esthetics. The lag is the game-crippling issue that needs to be solved before DUST can go anywhere at all.
I really don't see any point in arguing about it. Everyone has a different opinion, a different solution and more times than not not going to be the end result. It's a generally mutually accepted that Equipment Spam is a problem and it needs to be fixed. How it's done is entirely up to CCP.
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RKKR
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
611
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Posted - 2014.01.05 08:41:00 -
[44] - Quote
Hopefully they won't pick a solution that makes playing support roles boring and even more useless than now. |
DeeJay One
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
175
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Posted - 2014.01.05 08:47:00 -
[45] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote: 2.) Bandwidth. Same as above, there are similar measures in place for certain objects in Eve Online - most notably drones. I sort of understand what was proposed but I don't feel safe commenting on it until I genuinely know.
If you need something clarified feel free to ask :)
As for the people claiming that the number of equipment isn't the root cause for lag - true, but we seem to be unable to do something new to help CCP fix it, there were more than enough reports and videos and we can't fix the code ourselves.
This thread is about future development for equipment and bringing it more in line with what was expected to be in game, as certainly the amount of equipment brought down by a single player wasn't intended. |
Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
4350
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Posted - 2014.01.05 12:55:00 -
[46] - Quote
DeeJay One wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote: 2.) Bandwidth. Same as above, there are similar measures in place for certain objects in Eve Online - most notably drones. I sort of understand what was proposed but I don't feel safe commenting on it until I genuinely know.
If you need something clarified feel free to ask :) As for the people claiming that the number of equipment isn't the root cause for lag - true, but we seem to be unable to do something new to help CCP fix it, there were more than enough reports and videos and we can't fix the code ourselves. This thread is about future development for equipment and bringing it more in line with what was expected to be in game, as certainly the amount of equipment brought down by a single player wasn't intended.
Thread was about sanity-checking a potentially disastrous alternative. Just to make the distinction.
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DeeJay One
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
180
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Posted - 2014.01.06 12:07:00 -
[47] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote: Thread was about sanity-checking a potentially disastrous alternative. Just to make the distinction.
Crap, my hijacking attempt didn't work ;) |
I-Shayz-I
I-----I
1817
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Posted - 2014.01.06 17:51:00 -
[48] - Quote
A way to encourage smarter placement of equipment would be to have very limited amounts of them, but let them have a reduced profile.
For instance, in order to scan or detect prototype nanohives/uplinks, you need a prototype scanner.
This way, you can hide an uplink in a corner without everyone knowing where it is. It also reduces the amount of stuff displayed on the HUD and radar, and will improve almost everything.
Links:
List of Most Important Threads
I make logistics videos!
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Poonmunch
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
760
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Posted - 2014.01.06 17:59:00 -
[49] - Quote
How about team equipment limits? We do it with vehicles, if I'm not mistaken.
Munch
Dedicated Sniper.
Minmatar Patriot (6).
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Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Public Disorder.
1438
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Posted - 2014.01.06 18:21:00 -
[50] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Skihids wrote:Don't play with workarounds, fix the kitten code!
None of these half measures will solve the lag problem if it builds up regardless if the equipment is there or destroyed.
The number one rule for fixing software is to first identify the root cause, then address that specific issue. It's like having a room with a rotten floor. Some of you propose to put up turnstiles that allow only two people in the room at a time so nobody crashes through the floor. Some want to make all but one suit too wide to fit through the door. Others just want to paint the floor. What we need is to pull up the rotten boards and replace them.
You don't need to dream up detour signs to keep people out of the room. It's ineffective, adds complexity, and reduces the fun. Added complexity opens the door to loopholes and unforeseen consequences.
I've been in the software business for nearly thirty years and I've seen the results of trying to hide bugs rather than fix them. It's not just lag, mate. It's just a generally irritating battle strategy to litter the ground with half-assed spawn points for the sake of spawning anywhere. That's an entirely separate issue that comes down to gameplay and esthetics. The lag is the game-crippling issue that needs to be solved before DUST can go anywhere at all. I really don't see any point in arguing about it. Everyone has a different opinion, a different solution and more times than not not going to be the end result. It's a generally mutually accepted that Equipment Spam is a problem and it needs to be fixed. How it's done is entirely up to CCP. I've got nothing against your or anybody else's suggestions. Sometime the car needs a new paint job or to have brake pads changed. But those worthwhile things are not gonna cut it when a main bearing needs replacing.
I support SP rollover.
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
4364
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Posted - 2014.01.06 18:54:00 -
[51] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote: I've got nothing against your or anybody else's suggestions. Sometime the car needs a new paint job or to have brake pads changed. But those worthwhile things are not gonna cut it when a main bearing needs replacing.
Then it's best not to pretend to be the mechanic and let him do his job
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RKKR
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
620
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Posted - 2014.01.06 19:02:00 -
[52] - Quote
Reducing the limit of equipment or **** like that won't work, sure it would maybe help the game but not the support role.
Your squads moves to a different position? Too bad you already dropped that hive, you are now useless.
Out of hives? Too bad that your gayass teammate of a tanker destroyed the supply depot.
Teamlimit? A douche will just throw all his equipment down at base at the start of a game.
...
Equipment-spam is only possible due to the game mechanics that promote scan-camping on the same spot and the passive use of equipment.
If you guys still want to think in the equipment-box then make it so that equipment gives only a temporary boost (ammo, health, whatever...or dare I say a negative effect for enemies) within an area. The next 'equipment' could then be thrown down after a cooldown with no need of restocking.
Make people want/need to have a support role near them.
There you go just another idea, sucked right of my thumb.
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RAMB0
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
38
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Posted - 2014.01.06 19:16:00 -
[53] - Quote
Remove equiment noisy and visuals. It is annoying and causes lag |
Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
4364
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Posted - 2014.01.06 19:16:00 -
[54] - Quote
RKKR wrote:Reducing the limit of equipment or **** like that won't work, sure it would maybe help the game but not the support role.
Your squads moves to a different position? Too bad you already dropped that hive, you are now useless.
Out of hives? Too bad that your gayass teammate of a tanker destroyed the supply depot.
Teamlimit? A douche will just throw all his equipment down at base at the start of a game.
- Your squads moves to a different position? Too bad you already dropped that hive, you are now useless. It's assumed that when placing down new equipment it would simply over-write the ones you already placed, which speculation states is the intended way of doing things considering that some nanohives allow you to carry more than you have active.
- Out of hives? Too bad that your gayass teammate of a tanker destroyed the supply depot. This has, does and will always happen.
- Teamlimit? A douche will just throw all his equipment down at base at the start of a game. Team-limitations are something I'm not directly opposed to, if done correctly. This would not be the correct way of going about it. The best way to go about team-limitations and reducing the 'spam' of equipment would be to revert to having active equipment maximums per player, which already exist for single variations of equipment.
An Ishukone Gauged Nanohive cannot have more than three active but you can combine it with other types and circumvent the limitation.
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
2647
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Posted - 2014.01.06 19:31:00 -
[55] - Quote
Poonmunch wrote:How about team equipment limits? We do it with vehicles, if I'm not mistaken.
Munch
I think those artificial restrictions should be removed too. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Public Disorder.
1439
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Posted - 2014.01.06 19:37:00 -
[56] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Vrain Matari wrote: I've got nothing against your or anybody else's suggestions. Sometime the car needs a new paint job or to have brake pads changed. But those worthwhile things are not gonna cut it when a main bearing needs replacing.
Then it's best not to pretend to be the mechanic and let him do his job Evidence-to-date in DUST's development history indicates that is a bad idea.
The risk of a band-aid patch here is high, and it would only come back to haunt us later. There needs to be voices in these threads telling CCP that the desired course of action is to address the underlying issues.
Speaking only for myself, ofc, that is the desired course of action.
I support SP rollover.
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe. Public Disorder.
1386
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Posted - 2014.01.06 19:38:00 -
[57] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Quote:8. Do you feel equipment spam is a problem and if so what are your thoughts on possible solutions for littered uplinks and stacked nanohives? by The Council of Planetary Management (CPM)
Use of equipment is obviously encouraged but abuse of any system to the point where itGÇÖs detrimental to gameplay is obviously a problem. So, yeah, itGÇÖs definitely an issue. WeGÇÖd like to approach the problem by first increasing the PG/CPU costs along with role-specific skills that reduce those costs to discourage mass fitting of drop uplinks and nanohives, and put them back into the hands of the specialists. Eventually, weGÇÖd want to introduce the ability for the enemy to hack a piece of equipment and take ownership of it (to encourage smarter placement of equipment instead of dumping dozens in plain sight) and have War Barge-fired EMP strikes that destroy all equipment over a very large area. I understand there's a significant level of crystal balling here as we [the community] don't know any details pertaining to what changes will take place, but after some time to consider my words, I feel it needs to be said. Please proceed with caution on this, I beg you. Equipment Spam covers a wide variety of symptoms ranging from general in-battle strategy to frame-rate drops, among other things. It is important to not simply view this as the result of laxxed fittings on equipment items and while I'd rather not commit the logical fallacy of a 'slippery slope' argument, logic would dictate that regardless of the fitting costs, if a player wants to spam the item they're going to do it no matter what. At the moment a large part of the issue, I (and others) feel, is that the problem revolves around the ability to set a pre-determined suit for the purpose and simply switch it out at a supply depot after dropping off multiple types of the same piece of equipment. Increasing the fitting costs won't hamper this much, I feel, due to the fact that the suit's sole purpose is to put down the equipment - no other. There would be no reason to fit other modules or high-grade weaponry if it meant being able to perform the same task as before. While my fears may be premature, my concern is solely revolving around the ideal that increasing resource costs may very well downgrade the intended usability by other roles and restrict it to a more narrow field that still is capable of being used in the same problem areas. That's all I have to say, thank you. what if you didnt need to deploy equipment to use it? say if you fit nanohives on your suit, if you wanted to give ammo to someone you would just run up to them and stand near them. if you fitted a dropuplink your squadmates would simply spawn near you. and if you wanted to use explosives... jk, you still need to deploy those lol not having to deploy nanohives means if your squad sticks together then they wont run out of ammo as long as someone has one. a scout can carry uplinks and suddenly he becomes a powerful asset. staying off scan and alowing his squad to deploy near objectives or take advantage of weak defenses. and the best part is that theres no equipment spam! which means no/less frame rate drops.
I have a Dragonfly scout I use just to drop uplinks behind line or early in matches. Didn't links and hives self destruct when a merc died in the closed beta?
GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride."
Hunter S. Thompson
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
2648
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Posted - 2014.01.06 19:46:00 -
[58] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Quote:8. Do you feel equipment spam is a problem and if so what are your thoughts on possible solutions for littered uplinks and stacked nanohives? by The Council of Planetary Management (CPM)
Use of equipment is obviously encouraged but abuse of any system to the point where itGÇÖs detrimental to gameplay is obviously a problem. So, yeah, itGÇÖs definitely an issue. WeGÇÖd like to approach the problem by first increasing the PG/CPU costs along with role-specific skills that reduce those costs to discourage mass fitting of drop uplinks and nanohives, and put them back into the hands of the specialists. Eventually, weGÇÖd want to introduce the ability for the enemy to hack a piece of equipment and take ownership of it (to encourage smarter placement of equipment instead of dumping dozens in plain sight) and have War Barge-fired EMP strikes that destroy all equipment over a very large area. I understand there's a significant level of crystal balling here as we [the community] don't know any details pertaining to what changes will take place, but after some time to consider my words, I feel it needs to be said. Please proceed with caution on this, I beg you. Equipment Spam covers a wide variety of symptoms ranging from general in-battle strategy to frame-rate drops, among other things. It is important to not simply view this as the result of laxxed fittings on equipment items and while I'd rather not commit the logical fallacy of a 'slippery slope' argument, logic would dictate that regardless of the fitting costs, if a player wants to spam the item they're going to do it no matter what. At the moment a large part of the issue, I (and others) feel, is that the problem revolves around the ability to set a pre-determined suit for the purpose and simply switch it out at a supply depot after dropping off multiple types of the same piece of equipment. Increasing the fitting costs won't hamper this much, I feel, due to the fact that the suit's sole purpose is to put down the equipment - no other. There would be no reason to fit other modules or high-grade weaponry if it meant being able to perform the same task as before. While my fears may be premature, my concern is solely revolving around the ideal that increasing resource costs may very well downgrade the intended usability by other roles and restrict it to a more narrow field that still is capable of being used in the same problem areas. That's all I have to say, thank you. what if you didnt need to deploy equipment to use it? say if you fit nanohives on your suit, if you wanted to give ammo to someone you would just run up to them and stand near them. if you fitted a dropuplink your squadmates would simply spawn near you. and if you wanted to use explosives... jk, you still need to deploy those lol not having to deploy nanohives means if your squad sticks together then they wont run out of ammo as long as someone has one. a scout can carry uplinks and suddenly he becomes a powerful asset. staying off scan and alowing his squad to deploy near objectives or take advantage of weak defenses. and the best part is that theres no equipment spam! which means no/less frame rate drops. I have a Dragonfly scout I use just to drop uplinks behind line or early in matches. Didn't links and hives self destruct when a merc died in the closed beta?
No. There is one type of uplink that does, but nobody uses it for that reason.
Support logis die too regularly to use that mechanic. I'd have to abandon the job. |
dreth longbow
Bank of DUST 514
20
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 19:53:00 -
[59] - Quote
Wait, lets think about this. Is to much equipment the problem? Should we limit them or expire them after a set period? Should raise the fitting cost on them? Should we limit the ability to change fits at a depot?
I say no to all this! Lets think about it not in a cause and effect issue but as a game issue. Problem: All these spawn points and nano hives make it so the frame rate is so bad it give me a headache and everything is so jittery that I can't even walk around without bumping into walls and falling off buildings.
The real problem is not the spawn points or nano hives but the frame rate, so lets not nerf the equipment but fix the frame rate. How might that be done? 1) Fix the data flow between server and user, if a player is not in the area where all the equipment is then don't send his ps3 that data so then he is not effected by the links and hives. 2) Add more server processing to handle the rendering. 3) Add more band width to handle the transport. 4) Set a thresh hold for when frame rate drops below a point, then lower resolution is deployed to increase frame rate (I think we all would agree that lower resolution is preferred to choppy game play).
These 4 solutions are all viable solutions to a problem and should be looked at first instead of a knee jerk reaction of modifying equipment or user use of equipment to increase frame rate. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
2649
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 20:06:00 -
[60] - Quote
dreth longbow wrote:Wait, lets think about this. Is to much equipment the problem? Should we limit them or expire them after a set period? Should raise the fitting cost on them? Should we limit the ability to change fits at a depot?
I say no to all this! Lets think about it not in a cause and effect issue but as a game issue. Problem: All these spawn points and nano hives make it so the frame rate is so bad it give me a headache and everything is so jittery that I can't even walk around without bumping into walls and falling off buildings.
The real problem is not the spawn points or nano hives but the frame rate, so lets not nerf the equipment but fix the frame rate. How might that be done? 1) Fix the data flow between server and user, if a player is not in the area where all the equipment is then don't send his ps3 that data so then he is not effected by the links and hives. 2) Add more server processing to handle the rendering. 3) Add more band width to handle the transport. 4) Set a thresh hold for when frame rate drops below a point, then lower resolution is deployed to increase frame rate (I think we all would agree that lower resolution is preferred to choppy game play).
These 4 solutions are all viable solutions to a problem and should be looked at first instead of a knee jerk reaction of modifying equipment or user use of equipment to increase frame rate.
Why even transmit the location of equipment regularly?
Why not only when equipment is laid down or is removed? It doesn't move. It doesn't change orientation. Just cache it locally on the PS3 and let the system handle display. If the PS3 can't handle the display, simplify it.
It's not like server interaction is needed unless the merc is requesting supply from a hive. |
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