DUST Search - Isn't it time we removed 3rd person view from vehicles?

Reav Hannari wrote:

Skihids wrote:

Reav Hannari wrote:

For HAVs first person could work. I haven't tried it in LAVs. It will NOT work for Dropships. Those things are difficult enough to fly in third person view. First person is sort of useful in limited situations. You'd need Oculus Rift and a full suite of attitude displays to go first person full time and completely reworking how the nose turret works for Assault Dropships.

Third person vehicle views is the cheap way to provide the feedback we normally get by being able to turn our heads and feel motion.

You could do it without the Oculus Rift if you made use of other inputs.

The critical requirement is to free up the right stick for the look camera. That means moving YAW to a set of USB rudder pedals or a gyro control on the DS3. Then you dramatically widen the FoV to at least 180 degrees like a helicopter canopy.

Now the ADS gun can follow the view camera, both vertically and horizontally.

Bonus points for R3 reversing the view.

Finally add flight instruments on the HUD. The total experience would be more immersive and more effective. No more watching the ass end of your ship as it obscures your flight path or your target. I swear, flying is just like those nightmares where I'm driving from the back seat of the car.

They'll have to come up with a control scheme that only relies on a standard DS3 but I'm up for them trying anything to improve the flying experience.

One big issue that'll need to be addressed is we use the entire ship to change direction and my view needs to be somewhat independent of the ships attitude. I may be looking at the horizon towards where I want to be flying but the ship ends up pointing almost directly at the ground. As I lose altitude and pick up speed I level off but then I point the ship towards the sky to slow down. How does the game change my view? Does the cockpit drop off the screen as I'm accelerating? Do I end up looking at my crotch when decelerating?

Dropships make such crazy maneuvers. 3PV smooths that out considerably.

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Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 96	Posted - 2014.01.03 17:43:00 - [61] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Nope why not? its not like your invulnerable to people without av, typical tank scrub defending his best advantage against infantry. get rid of this ** ccp, how many advantages do people want ffs Its not going to happen I have camera drones out, just like the drones i have around my EVE ship No infantry has ever complained about the camera for any vehicle until now, and why are you complaining? oh yes its because AV got nerfed and you keep shooting tanks while they are glowing like a dumbass the only av i have is remotes, proxies and std av nades, give me one good reason other than lol lore why someone who isnt even speced to take on tanks should not be able to avoid you? a can deal with hard to kill tanks because it makes sense, but impossible to avoid tanks because they can see everything going on around them is not balance its a sad day when people cant even comprimise, i look forward to to tank tears once again when a single av guy can wipe you out because the only thing ccp can seem to do is juggle damage numbers and not change the actual problem which is super powerfull tanks that are also a piece of ** to drive I have to rotate the camera to see everything going on around me, i only ever look forward unless i turn my turret to look backwards 3rd person camera is not a problem and it never has been if its not a problem why do you not want to give it up?
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1862	Posted - 2014.01.03 17:47:00 - [62] - Quote Smooth Assassin wrote: Definitely, stops them using third person to see me placing remotes behind em. Heck, I'd take a blind spot. Most good tankers listen for the beep anyway. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2104	Posted - 2014.01.03 17:51:00 - [63] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: if its not a problem why do you not want to give it up? 3rd person camera isnt a problem, removing it solves nothing and doesnt make anything better as a consequence Intelligence is OP
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 96	Posted - 2014.01.03 18:02:00 - [64] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: if its not a problem why do you not want to give it up? 3rd person camera isnt a problem, removing it solves nothing and doesnt make anything better as a consequence you havent given one single reason why tanks should have 3rd person viewpoint other than just no, lore and this effort
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2104	Posted - 2014.01.03 18:05:00 - [65] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: if its not a problem why do you not want to give it up? 3rd person camera isnt a problem, removing it solves nothing and doesnt make anything better as a consequence you havent given one single reason why tanks should have 3rd person viewpoint other than just no, lore and this effort You havnt given 1 good reason why it should be removed Intelligence is OP
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 96	Posted - 2014.01.03 18:07:00 - [66] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: if its not a problem why do you not want to give it up? 3rd person camera isnt a problem, removing it solves nothing and doesnt make anything better as a consequence you havent given one single reason why tanks should have 3rd person viewpoint other than just no, lore and this effort You havnt given 1 good reason why it should be removed the chance to just be able to avoid a tank by staying out of line of sight of turret is the only one i need
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2104	Posted - 2014.01.03 18:15:00 - [67] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: if its not a problem why do you not want to give it up? 3rd person camera isnt a problem, removing it solves nothing and doesnt make anything better as a consequence you havent given one single reason why tanks should have 3rd person viewpoint other than just no, lore and this effort You havnt given 1 good reason why it should be removed the chance to just be able to avoid a tank by staying out of line of sight of turret is the only one i need Well you can do that anyways now Avoid the turret and you avoid being spotted unless you turn up on radar then your ****** Intelligence is OP
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 96	Posted - 2014.01.03 18:26:00 - [68] - Quote when the tank has a 3rd person view as good as the one you have now you cant avoid not getting spoted, you cant sit there and tell me it makes no difference whatsoever with a straight face
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2788	Posted - 2014.01.03 18:38:00 - [69] - Quote m621 zma wrote: In an FPS game? I think so. At the very least, some sort of mounted camera view such as that of the HMG's ADS. This would be especially helpful to DS pilots who could switch to a below view or rear view etc. No.
ladwar Death by Disassociation Legacy Rising 1959	Posted - 2014.01.03 18:52:00 - [70] - Quote is it time we added bleeding effects on infantry that are shot, is it time we added burning effects shot by missiles, lasers, and plasma, is it time we added OHK to all face(mask) shots leading to choking to death if not an all out splatter of the heads like grapes, is it time we added gun jams and weapon brake downs, is it time we removed ammo on laser rifles, is it time we removed the LAV title and called it LTV (light transport vehicle) or scout jeep, i like scout jeep; is it time we removed skills that have that offer nothing to for skilling into.(you know the levels so i don't need to say which ones) is it time we removed the hard lock of the assault dropship first person view so you could aim down like you could in 3rd, is it time we removed the redline, is it time we did any of this? CCP: yea sure... SOON tm follow by laughter Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth not looking for a corp, don't ask.

Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1633	Posted - 2014.01.03 18:57:00 - [71] - Quote m621 zma wrote: In an FPS game? I think so. SOCOM had 3rd person view. Are you a tanker? No? Then stop trying to dictate how tanking is supposed to work. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4350	Posted - 2014.01.03 19:02:00 - [72] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: While we're on the subject I would love a TPV for my dropsuit. HAHA no. Planetside, anyone? Stand around a corner with TPV active with a shotgun. Wait till people come down the hallway unsuspecting because you're completely behind cover but using the camera to look around unexposed. Jump out and gun them all down. I don't mean to seem like I'm dumping on you, but that is not a good idea. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 96	Posted - 2014.01.03 19:05:00 - [73] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: While we're on the subject I would love a TPV for my dropsuit. HAHA no. Planetside, anyone? Stand around a corner with TPV active with a shotgun. Wait till people come down the hallway unsuspecting because you're completely behind cover but using the camera to look around unexposed. Jump out and gun them all down. I don't mean to seem like I'm dumping on you, but that is not a good idea. completely fine for tanks though
R F Gyro Clones 4u 896	Posted - 2014.01.03 19:44:00 - [74] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Are you a tanker? No? Then stop trying to dictate how tanking is supposed to work. Grrr.... this attitude always winds me up. Its a bit like the NSA or GCHQ saying "are you a national intelligence agency? no? then stop trying to dictate how signals intelligence is supposed to work". RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 2037	Posted - 2014.01.03 21:30:00 - [75] - Quote Actually, I think first person should be replaced by a zoomed in top down view of some sort for tanks. That way, I can navigate those tight areas and get unstuck without being able to see behind rocks and over hills. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1146	Posted - 2014.01.03 21:38:00 - [76] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: While we're on the subject I would love a TPV for my dropsuit. HAHA no. Planetside, anyone? Stand around a corner with TPV active with a shotgun. Wait till people come down the hallway unsuspecting because you're completely behind cover but using the camera to look around unexposed. Jump out and gun them all down. I don't mean to seem like I'm dumping on you, but that is not a good idea. Implying I couldn't do the same with an active scanner. "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
Cormack's Modified Griefer Expert Intervention Caldari State 79	Posted - 2014.01.03 21:44:00 - [77] - Quote This is my tanking alt, it may use nothing but militia tanks, but it still counts. I would like to point out that the TPV has kept me from getting flanked by infantry. Although if another tank gets the drop on me, the camera won't matter since they don't have to hump my tank to do decent damage.
Sky Kage Immortal Guides 630	Posted - 2014.01.03 21:48:00 - [78] - Quote a "3rd person" mode would be fun to be honest. and so would a "hardcore" type mode. hardcore as in a EMP strike or something in such nature causes certain vehicles(tanks, dropships), radar, and certain equipment to not function.(uplinks, nanohives, and scanners) I die alot AND have fun... Who knew? a¦á_a¦á
medomai grey WarRavens League of Infamy 399	Posted - 2014.01.03 21:50:00 - [79] - Quote dropships are virtually impossible to pilot in first person mode. Only time we use first person view is during dive attacks or aiming at other flying targets. Blatant Dust_514 recruiting in the silliest of places. :P
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2626	Posted - 2014.01.03 22:12:00 - [80] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Skihids wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: For HAVs first person could work. I haven't tried it in LAVs. It will NOT work for Dropships. Those things are difficult enough to fly in third person view. First person is sort of useful in limited situations. You'd need Oculus Rift and a full suite of attitude displays to go first person full time and completely reworking how the nose turret works for Assault Dropships. Third person vehicle views is the cheap way to provide the feedback we normally get by being able to turn our heads and feel motion. You could do it without the Oculus Rift if you made use of other inputs. The critical requirement is to free up the right stick for the look camera. That means moving YAW to a set of USB rudder pedals or a gyro control on the DS3. Then you dramatically widen the FoV to at least 180 degrees like a helicopter canopy. Now the ADS gun can follow the view camera, both vertically and horizontally. Bonus points for R3 reversing the view. Finally add flight instruments on the HUD. The total experience would be more immersive and more effective. No more watching the ass end of your ship as it obscures your flight path or your target. I swear, flying is just like those nightmares where I'm driving from the back seat of the car. They'll have to come up with a control scheme that only relies on a standard DS3 but I'm up for them trying anything to improve the flying experience. One big issue that'll need to be addressed is we use the entire ship to change direction and my view needs to be somewhat independent of the ships attitude. I may be looking at the horizon towards where I want to be flying but the ship ends up pointing almost directly at the ground. As I lose altitude and pick up speed I level off but then I point the ship towards the sky to slow down. How does the game change my view? Does the cockpit drop off the screen as I'm accelerating? Do I end up looking at my crotch when decelerating? Dropships make such crazy maneuvers. 3PV smooths that out considerably. The DS3 tilt control could be used for Yaw to get a pure DS3 solution. It wouldn't be the best, but it would work as the default. USB rudder pedals are extremely popular with the flight sim crowd so anyone seriously into dropships probably has a set already. Regardless they are dirt cheap so it would be easy for anyone to get, certainly cheaper than the Move controller that they already support. The Right stick would have a 180 degree pan/tilt with auto-centering. That would be plenty to allow you to look up at the horizon when your ship is 60 degrees nose down. Add a standard Attitude Indicator and you wouldn't even need to look up. You could keep looking down and shooting while monitoring your attitude via the HUD instrument. You wouldn't actually be viewing a physical cockpit. I envision this as a virtual view transmitted to your visor (with the HUD overlay) by surface mounted cameras. That gives you the impression that you are floating in the sky by yourself. Now you would probably add markers, either solid or transparent, to represent the physical ship around you so you know exactly where it is pointed while you look somewhere off center axis. That could be implemented like virtual canopy dividers if you like.

KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3595	Posted - 2014.01.03 22:19:00 - [81] - Quote m621 zma wrote: In an FPS game? I think so. IM NOT a pro vehicle driver. I think the 3rd person view helps the vehicle drivers to better confirm their surroundings. Sure, a 1st person view WOULD be a lot more fair , for infantry , specially in the case of tankers that can even see scouts sneaking up behind them, But i think making vehicles harder to drive wont really help the game much. So i oppose. AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 100	Posted - 2014.01.03 22:48:00 - [82] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: m621 zma wrote: In an FPS game? I think so. IM NOT a pro vehicle driver. I think the 3rd person view helps the vehicle drivers to better confirm their surroundings. Sure, a 1st person view WOULD be a lot more fair , for infantry , specially in the case of tankers that can even see scouts sneaking up behind them, But i think making vehicles harder to drive wont really help the game much. So i oppose. translated as take away 3rd person view and it will be harder to kill infantry, i might also suck at driving.
Orenji Jiji 326	Posted - 2014.01.03 22:58:00 - [83] - Quote m621 zma wrote: In an FPS game? I think so. I logged in to like this post ironically. Will never happen. Tanker lobby took over the game. SL dumbfire, DS bumpercars, Scout beast-mode. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time.. to die.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2626	Posted - 2014.01.04 01:28:00 - [84] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: m621 zma wrote: In an FPS game? I think so. IM NOT a pro vehicle driver. I think the 3rd person view helps the vehicle drivers to better confirm their surroundings. Sure, a 1st person view WOULD be a lot more fair , for infantry , specially in the case of tankers that can even see scouts sneaking up behind them, But i think making vehicles harder to drive wont really help the game much. So i oppose. If you remove third person view R3 could be reassigned to a reverse view which would actually make driving easier. Imagine being able to instantly back up without having to rotate your turret and seeing more than five feet behind your tank.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2109	Posted - 2014.01.04 11:01:00 - [85] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: when the tank has a 3rd person view as good as the one you have now you cant avoid not getting spoted, you cant sit there and tell me it makes no difference whatsoever with a straight face Yes you can avoid being spotted Yday we parked a LAV behind a tank and put remotes on it then when he noticed us he backed up into the LAV which triggered the remotes and he died When im on foot i can easily avoid tanks unless they have a scanner on Intelligence is OP
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2502	Posted - 2014.01.04 11:10:00 - [86] - Quote No. I'm not even a DS pilot now (will be eventually) but I feel the third person view allows you to see your surroundings and make adjustments instead of being confined to tunnel vision. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 36	Posted - 2014.01.04 12:53:00 - [87] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: remove 3rd person view and give them actual vehicle controls like multiple gears and an accelerator and brake button. stuff like that would make them easier to avoid and kill without nerfing them Hey, that's actually a good idea. Dropships have been made complex on purpose. Why not do the same on tanks? Personally, I'd love to learn vehicles if they were powerful but hard to learn.
Lucifalic Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 179	Posted - 2014.01.04 13:09:00 - [88] - Quote Lucifalic wrote: I'm fine with them having tpv as long as I only show up when they ads. I'm a scout. Their sensors do not beat by my dampening. I don't show. Spent a lot of sp only to be seen because they get third person view when I sneak up on them and try to lay re's. So keep the view because it is hard to drive fp. But don't show properly dampened suits unless you ads. This should be the best and easiest fix for both sides of this debate. THIS
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2628	Posted - 2014.01.04 18:35:00 - [89] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: No. I'm not even a DS pilot now (will be eventually) but I feel the third person view allows you to see your surroundings and make adjustments instead of being confined to tunnel vision. Tunnel vision exists because CCP coded a cripplingly narrow field of view into the FPV. They could widen it WAY out and let you look side to side like a real pilot can if they removed the neck brace.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2629	Posted - 2014.01.04 20:41:00 - [90] - Quote It would be phenomenal if CCP could remove the neck brace fom infantry as well. I know that it's a staple of FPS's, but it has always bugged me that I have to pivot my hips to look side to side. It's unnatural.



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