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Tell me why a combat rifle does more damage than an HMG?

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Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 798	Posted - 2014.01.31 17:03:00 - [61] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: With Proficiency 5 and no Damage mods Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle (26.68 x 1200 RPM) / 60 = 533.6 DPS Boundless HMG (22.77 x 2000 RPM) / 60 = 759 DPS What the hell is OP taking about? They have the same damage type (95% vs shields and 110% vs armor) The only difference is the optimal and effective range, but the title is about damage. Assult cr sucks, I facepalm whenever I see anyone using it Burst version is the OP one Proto with prof 5 does 40.5 dmg per bullet at 1200 ROF for 810 dps Also HMG has bad accuracy and shoots at 2400 rpm so your math for the HMG is wrong, mainly because most bullets will miss
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 1096	Posted - 2014.01.31 17:14:00 - [62] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: stlcarlos989 wrote: With Proficiency 5 and no Damage mods Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle (26.68 x 1200 RPM) / 60 = 533.6 DPS Boundless HMG (22.77 x 2000 RPM) / 60 = 759 DPS What the hell is OP taking about? They have the same damage type (95% vs shields and 110% vs armor) The only difference is the optimal and effective range, but the title is about damage. Assult cr sucks, I facepalm whenever I see anyone using it Burst version is the OP one Proto with prof 5 does 40.5 dmg per bullet at 1200 ROF for 810 dps Also HMG has bad accuracy and shoots at 2400 rpm so your math for the HMG is wrong, mainly because most bullets will miss His HMG RoF is off, should be 2400 not 2000. Comes out to: 910.8 DPS {:)}{3GÇó>
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 1096	Posted - 2014.01.31 17:19:00 - [63] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: stlcarlos989 wrote: With Proficiency 5 and no Damage mods Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle (26.68 x 1200 RPM) / 60 = 533.6 DPS Boundless HMG (22.77 x 2000 RPM) / 60 = 759 DPS What the hell is OP taking about? They have the same damage type (95% vs shields and 110% vs armor) The only difference is the optimal and effective range, but the title is about damage. Proto with prof 5 does 40.5 dmg per bullet at 1200 ROF for 810 dps You can't achieve 1200 RoF with the vanilla CR. there is a refire delay interval. The max you can get is around one burst per 0.22777778 seconds or 4.1 seconds to empty a clip. {:)}{3GÇó>
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 798	Posted - 2014.01.31 17:20:00 - [64] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Dexter307 wrote: stlcarlos989 wrote: With Proficiency 5 and no Damage mods Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle (26.68 x 1200 RPM) / 60 = 533.6 DPS Boundless HMG (22.77 x 2000 RPM) / 60 = 759 DPS What the hell is OP taking about? They have the same damage type (95% vs shields and 110% vs armor) The only difference is the optimal and effective range, but the title is about damage. Assult cr sucks, I facepalm whenever I see anyone using it Burst version is the OP one Proto with prof 5 does 40.5 dmg per bullet at 1200 ROF for 810 dps Also HMG has bad accuracy and shoots at 2400 rpm so your math for the HMG is wrong, mainly because most bullets will miss His HMG RoF is off, should be 2400 not 2000. Comes out to: 910.8 DPS Yes, but the accuracy of the HMG means it's actual DPS is lower
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 798	Posted - 2014.01.31 17:22:00 - [65] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Dexter307 wrote: stlcarlos989 wrote: With Proficiency 5 and no Damage mods Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle (26.68 x 1200 RPM) / 60 = 533.6 DPS Boundless HMG (22.77 x 2000 RPM) / 60 = 759 DPS What the hell is OP taking about? They have the same damage type (95% vs shields and 110% vs armor) The only difference is the optimal and effective range, but the title is about damage. Proto with prof 5 does 40.5 dmg per bullet at 1200 ROF for 810 dps You can't achieve 1200 RoF with the vanilla CR. there is a refire delay interval. The max you can get is around one burst per 0.22777778 seconds or 4.1 seconds to empty a clip. You can get very close to 1200, the delay is very small
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 864	Posted - 2014.01.31 17:23:00 - [66] - Quote i'd like to add in the fact that the CR took away my heavy's shield in 2 seconds from 80m YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED!!! sç+a¦át¢èa¦á)sç+ (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
thomas mak STRONG-ARMED BANDITS Public Disorder. 23	Posted - 2014.01.31 17:29:00 - [67] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: The combat riffle is horrible at close range. The combat riffle is KING at close range, dude *Real tanker dies with their tanks!*
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 1096	Posted - 2014.01.31 17:30:00 - [68] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Dexter307 wrote: stlcarlos989 wrote: With Proficiency 5 and no Damage mods Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle (26.68 x 1200 RPM) / 60 = 533.6 DPS Boundless HMG (22.77 x 2000 RPM) / 60 = 759 DPS What the hell is OP taking about? They have the same damage type (95% vs shields and 110% vs armor) The only difference is the optimal and effective range, but the title is about damage. Proto with prof 5 does 40.5 dmg per bullet at 1200 ROF for 810 dps You can't achieve 1200 RoF with the vanilla CR. there is a refire delay interval. The max you can get is around one burst per 0.22777778 seconds or 4.1 seconds to empty a clip. You can get very close to 1200, the delay is very small The numbers I gave are accurate. This has been field tested. {:)}{3GÇó>
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 798	Posted - 2014.01.31 17:36:00 - [69] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Dexter307 wrote: stlcarlos989 wrote: With Proficiency 5 and no Damage mods Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle (26.68 x 1200 RPM) / 60 = 533.6 DPS Boundless HMG (22.77 x 2000 RPM) / 60 = 759 DPS What the hell is OP taking about? They have the same damage type (95% vs shields and 110% vs armor) The only difference is the optimal and effective range, but the title is about damage. Proto with prof 5 does 40.5 dmg per bullet at 1200 ROF for 810 dps You can't achieve 1200 RoF with the vanilla CR. there is a refire delay interval. The max you can get is around one burst per 0.22777778 seconds or 4.1 seconds to empty a clip. You can get very close to 1200, the delay is very small The numbers I gave are accurate. This has been field tested. There is a lot of room for error in field testing a burst gun. Unless a dev confirms a burst delay time I'm going to assume ROF is ~1000
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 1097	Posted - 2014.01.31 17:43:00 - [70] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: There is a lot of room for error in field testing a burst gun. Unless a dev confirms a burst delay time I'm going to assume ROF is ~1000 Was timed with a stop watch thirty times. I think that is sufficient enough for practical purposes. Not that I wouldn't mind knowing the actual numbers in a DEV post. {:)}{3GÇó>

xSir Campsalotx G0DS AM0NG MEN 88	Posted - 2014.01.31 17:49:00 - [71] - Quote Base boundless damage 34.2+ prof 5 and 3x damage mods x rof of 20 a second 34.2x1.15x1.25x20=983.25 so not a thousand but just about.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 798	Posted - 2014.01.31 17:51:00 - [72] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Dexter307 wrote: There is a lot of room for error in field testing a burst gun. Unless a dev confirms a burst delay time I'm going to assume ROF is ~1000 Was timed with a stop watch thirty times. I think that is sufficient enough for practical purposes. Not that I wouldn't mind knowing the actual numbers in a DEV post. 30 isn't close for enough for accurate results. assuming the person shooting can pull the trigger fast enough for max ROF you would need hundreds of tests to be accurate
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 4298	Posted - 2014.01.31 17:54:00 - [73] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Uh, the HMG shreds things now. exactly why the hmg doesn't need a dmg boost or else the hmg would be more powerful than the cr Shouldn't it be Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 4 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 1097	Posted - 2014.01.31 17:55:00 - [74] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Dexter307 wrote: There is a lot of room for error in field testing a burst gun. Unless a dev confirms a burst delay time I'm going to assume ROF is ~1000 Was timed with a stop watch thirty times. I think that is sufficient enough for practical purposes. Not that I wouldn't mind knowing the actual numbers in a DEV post. 30 isn't close for enough for accurate results. assuming the person shooting can pull the trigger fast enough for max ROF you would need hundreds of tests to be accurate As I said it is accurate enough for practical purpose. We're not building a damned rocket here. {:)}{3GÇó>
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 798	Posted - 2014.01.31 17:59:00 - [75] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Dexter307 wrote: There is a lot of room for error in field testing a burst gun. Unless a dev confirms a burst delay time I'm going to assume ROF is ~1000 Was timed with a stop watch thirty times. I think that is sufficient enough for practical purposes. Not that I wouldn't mind knowing the actual numbers in a DEV post. 30 isn't close for enough for accurate results. assuming the person shooting can pull the trigger fast enough for max ROF you would need hundreds of tests to be accurate As I said it is accurate enough for practical purpose. We're not building a damned rocket here. Also my taps per second was more than sufficient to max the RoF. 4.3902439 taps per second is pretty slow (263.41 rounds per minute). But I want a rocket :(
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Public Disorder. 415	Posted - 2014.01.31 18:08:00 - [76] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: The combat riffle is horrible at close range. You're doing it wrong. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 842	Posted - 2014.02.01 00:33:00 - [77] - Quote the cr is meant to fight the sr, which they both do high amounts of dps but the only reason a cr can kill any faster than a sr is because it does more dmg to armor than shields, thats why minmatar are like paper to sr and any/every armor tank is paper to cr Trust the rust In Rust We Trust Vhreokor Warrior jack of all trades winmatar specialist master dual tanker
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 634	Posted - 2014.02.01 00:57:00 - [78] - Quote So when calculating these DPS difference between weapons, does anyone account for the reload time on the CR? I love you judgemental forum warriors with your "its a crutch gun" etc... The fact is most people's thoughts on balance are as follows: What ever I use is fine because its my elite skills that make me good with it" combined with "anything that kills me is OP because (in my mind) I am better than everyone else at this game" The truth is somewhere in between, I kill some heavies with my CR especially if I get them at range, however, in close most of the time I die. Honestly I would much rather have my assault RR or assault ScR in a CQC battle. Consensus is that the assault ScR completely sucks, yet I do just fine with it. Maybe people should realize two things: 1. they are not better than everyone else in the game 2. your skill at Dust 514 has absolutely no bearing on your life whatsoever. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 450	Posted - 2014.02.14 22:00:00 - [79] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: So when calculating these DPS difference between weapons, does anyone account for the reload time on the CR? I love you judgemental forum warriors with your "its a crutch gun" etc... The fact is most people's thoughts on balance are as follows: What ever I use is fine because its my elite skills that make me good with it" combined with "anything that kills me is OP because (in my mind) I am better than everyone else at this game" The truth is somewhere in between, I kill some heavies with my CR especially if I get them at range, however, in close most of the time I die. Honestly I would much rather have my assault RR or assault ScR in a CQC battle. Consensus is that the assault ScR completely sucks, yet I do just fine with it. Maybe people should realize two things: 1. they are not better than everyone else in the game 2. your skill at Dust 514 has absolutely no bearing on your life whatsoever. IDK, I am pretty sure the only weapon that downs my sentinel insanely fast is the vanilla CR (not the assault version). Seriously, I MELT in that thing WAY FASTER than any other weapon (the RR has the same damage bonus to armor as the CR does). The reason being is the proto CR can do upto 1003 DPS, for 2.7 seconds with a 2.6 second reload time. The proto HMG does 1081 theoretical DPS (its dispersion means it does only a fraction of that) for 10.625 seconds (but overheats at 8 seconds) with a 8 seconds reload. If you want to figure out sustained DPS while ignoring overheating, that is (damage per second * seconds til empty) / (seconds til empty + seconds for reload) Sustatined DPS (ignoring overheat) CR = 510 HMG = 616 if you take into account overheat CR = 510 HMG = 540 and then you miss at least 1/3rd of the damage of an HMG because of disperion. In the end, the numbers bear it out... CR >>>>>>>>>>> every weapon within the CRs operational range. The fact that a heavy would be better off with a CR over a HMG is kinda crazy. While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 1656	Posted - 2014.02.14 22:14:00 - [80] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: 1000 damage per second? Where do you guys come up with this stuff? Proto ACR with prof 5 and 2x damage mods: 637.96 damage per second. Proto vanilla CR with prof 5 and 2x damage mods: 637.43 damage per second (this has been tested in game - takes 4.1 seconds to empty a mag devided by 18 {number of busts in a mag} yada yada yada, so on and so forth). You guys are terrible. First, OP didn't mention ACR. Second of all - CR might have a minuscule refire delay (it's really not something I've noticed in my usage of the weapon) but HMG loses a huge amount of DPS from its dispersion. If we're looking at vanilla CR, you can potentially hit just under 1k damage, if I remember from my maths. Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters. Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!

Moorian Flav Ectype Inc. 136	Posted - 2014.02.14 22:17:00 - [81] - Quote @ OP - You're using your HMG wrong. I don't troll; I tell the truth.
NF Travel Agent Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 0	Posted - 2014.02.14 22:21:00 - [82] - Quote @ crimson The CB and RR are anything but balanced the hmg is fine learn to shoot. Contact in game to buy a district or register .
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1575	Posted - 2014.02.14 22:22:00 - [83] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: Why does any CR do anywhere near the amount of damage as an HMG? (due to bullet grouping, extended range, and LOL RoF it does do more effective DPS) the same reason why a RR, Scr and the galente AR since 1.1 up to now have always been doing as much or greater effective DPS than an HMG. stop trying to secretly nerf the CR. if, this is grounds to nerf the CR, then by default Scr, RR and galente AR all need a massive nerf as well. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
Awry Barux New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 566	Posted - 2014.02.14 22:23:00 - [84] - Quote CR needs delay between bursts. Well-managed, it'll crush any gun in CQC and out to medium range. The only thing it loses to is the RR at 70m.
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 547	Posted - 2014.02.14 22:34:00 - [85] - Quote Even with every CR skill at V I am still fairly easily outclassed by the RR at any range. But I am minm Logi with good equipment so I am also fairly squishy. Maybe if I used anything more then the standard but my advanced suit can't bear more. CCP your matchmaking sucks Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 705	Posted - 2014.02.14 22:40:00 - [86] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: So when calculating these DPS difference between weapons, does anyone account for the reload time on the CR? I love you judgemental forum warriors with your "its a crutch gun" etc... The fact is most people's thoughts on balance are as follows: What ever I use is fine because its my elite skills that make me good with it" combined with "anything that kills me is OP because (in my mind) I am better than everyone else at this game" The truth is somewhere in between, I kill some heavies with my CR especially if I get them at range, however, in close most of the time I die. Honestly I would much rather have my assault RR or assault ScR in a CQC battle. Consensus is that the assault ScR completely sucks, yet I do just fine with it. Maybe people should realize two things: 1. they are not better than everyone else in the game 2. your skill at Dust 514 has absolutely no bearing on your life whatsoever. IDK, I am pretty sure the only weapon that downs my sentinel insanely fast is the vanilla CR (not the assault version). Seriously, I MELT in that thing WAY FASTER than any other weapon (the RR has the same damage bonus to armor as the CR does). The reason being is the proto CR can do upto 1003 DPS, for 2.7 seconds with a 2.6 second reload time. The proto HMG does 1081 theoretical DPS (its dispersion means it does only a fraction of that) for 10.625 seconds (but overheats at 8 seconds) with a 8 seconds reload. If you want to figure out sustained DPS while ignoring overheating, that is (damage per second * seconds til empty) / (seconds til empty + seconds for reload) Sustatined DPS (ignoring overheat) CR = 510 HMG = 616 if you take into account overheat CR = 510 HMG = 540 and then you miss at least 1/3rd of the damage of an HMG because of disperion. In the end, the numbers bear it out... CR >>>>>>>>>>> every weapon within the CRs operational range. The fact that a heavy would be better off with a CR over a HMG is kinda crazy. Then your case should be for an HMG sharpshooter skill. But the point of my rant is that math only tells you half the story. So the CR can out DPS your HMG, well your suit has more EHP you can more effectively engage multiple targets at once, etc... Dust 514 is not some gentlemen's 1 v 1 duel and balancing it as if it was is f*cking stupid Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 1660	Posted - 2014.02.14 22:53:00 - [87] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: So when calculating these DPS difference between weapons, does anyone account for the reload time on the CR? I love you judgemental forum warriors with your "its a crutch gun" etc... The fact is most people's thoughts on balance are as follows: What ever I use is fine because its my elite skills that make me good with it" combined with "anything that kills me is OP because (in my mind) I am better than everyone else at this game" The truth is somewhere in between, I kill some heavies with my CR especially if I get them at range, however, in close most of the time I die. Honestly I would much rather have my assault RR or assault ScR in a CQC battle. Consensus is that the assault ScR completely sucks, yet I do just fine with it. Maybe people should realize two things: 1. they are not better than everyone else in the game 2. your skill at Dust 514 has absolutely no bearing on your life whatsoever. IDK, I am pretty sure the only weapon that downs my sentinel insanely fast is the vanilla CR (not the assault version). Seriously, I MELT in that thing WAY FASTER than any other weapon (the RR has the same damage bonus to armor as the CR does). The reason being is the proto CR can do upto 1003 DPS, for 2.7 seconds with a 2.6 second reload time. The proto HMG does 1081 theoretical DPS (its dispersion means it does only a fraction of that) for 10.625 seconds (but overheats at 8 seconds) with a 8 seconds reload. If you want to figure out sustained DPS while ignoring overheating, that is (damage per second * seconds til empty) / (seconds til empty + seconds for reload) Sustatined DPS (ignoring overheat) CR = 510 HMG = 616 if you take into account overheat CR = 510 HMG = 540 and then you miss at least 1/3rd of the damage of an HMG because of disperion. In the end, the numbers bear it out... CR >>>>>>>>>>> every weapon within the CRs operational range. The fact that a heavy would be better off with a CR over a HMG is kinda crazy. Then your case should be for an HMG sharpshooter skill. But the point of my rant is that math only tells you half the story. So the CR can out DPS your HMG, well your suit has more EHP you can more effectively engage multiple targets at once, etc... Dust 514 is not some gentlemen's 1 v 1 duel and balancing it as if it was is fcking stupid Zahle Undt wrote:* WAAH IT SHOULD TAKE TWO PEOPLE TO KILL MY CR And even then you can do for them no problem, because CR forces you to compromise nothing in your fitting. Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters. Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core 504	Posted - 2014.02.14 22:56:00 - [88] - Quote you can say the same thing about the SCr,So STFU A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
Rodd of Nor Nor Clan Combat Logistics 8	Posted - 2014.02.14 22:58:00 - [89] - Quote Im not one of those people that will go over the math and argue a point endlessly, but there is one point that agree with in this post... The Combat Rifle is over powered, Now when I say this I mean the basic level is to strong. Most of the time when Im killed by the C.R. its the basic version Im actually somewhat pleased when Im killed by a proto version of the weapon. Now if the basic wasn't so powerful we probably wouldn't have so many people using the blasted thing lol.
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 38	Posted - 2014.02.14 23:24:00 - [90] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: Why does any CR do anywhere near the amount of damage as an HMG? (due to bullet grouping, extended range, and LOL RoF it does do more effective DPS) Even a basic HMG beats out the Boundless Combat Rifle in DPS. The scrambler rifle actually competes with the HMG, it just takes more skill to use and thus hasn't been able to claim a place in FOTM, mostly due to how easy and versatile rail rifles are, I believe. Sometimes I miss never seeing tanks in a battle... then I remember the mystical flying soma, and I can't help but smile.



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