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Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4823	Posted - 2013.12.20 09:29:00 - [1] - Quote Totally not OP with that 640 DPS that it can apply at pin point accuracy. Coughs Add delay between bursts coughs Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 808	Posted - 2013.12.20 09:41:00 - [2] - Quote throw in the assault variants and you have a light version of the HMG, is there a need for us heavies anymore? YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED!!! sç+a¦át¢èa¦á)sç+ (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4823	Posted - 2013.12.20 09:43:00 - [3] - Quote Chibi Andy wrote: throw in the assault variants and you have a light version of the HMG, is there a need for us heavies anymore? Well yeah, your HMG does 791 DPS :P Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1811	Posted - 2013.12.20 09:51:00 - [4] - Quote The assault seems to spit out way to much dps(hate that word) but note not too bad actually. I'd like to see how it is in one month. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4824	Posted - 2013.12.20 09:55:00 - [5] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: The assault seems to spit out way to much dps(hate that word) but note not too bad actually. I'd like to see how it is in one month. Actually it has less DPS than the AR. Just that it throws so much lead down range while hip firing that a miss hurts less than a miss with the AR. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
X-eon Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 64	Posted - 2013.12.20 10:05:00 - [6] - Quote If that's the case, the damage should be dropped a point or three for the assault variant since it's rof is so high
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 1425	Posted - 2013.12.20 10:07:00 - [7] - Quote X-eon wrote: If that's the case, the damage should be dropped a point or three for the assault variant since it's rof is so high You know, I said the same thing for the Assault variants of the Forge Gun. "Go ahead and dual tank. My Commando dual ganks." -Kasote Denzara You can find me in Gallente's FW. I smell of freedom.
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 877	Posted - 2013.12.20 10:09:00 - [8] - Quote Shield tank, problem solved. EDIT: Combat rifles do 15% less damage against shields than they do armor. ( - 5 % shields, +10% armor, becomes 15% WORSE against shields than armor) Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.
Izlare Lenix FREE AGENTS LP 40	Posted - 2013.12.20 10:12:00 - [9] - Quote You realize in order to get that magical 640 dps, you have to pull the trigger 6.6 times a second. Most humans can not do that. Especially for a prolonged period of time.
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 877	Posted - 2013.12.20 10:14:00 - [10] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: You realize in order to get that magical 640 dps, you have to pull the trigger 6.6 times a second. Most humans can not do that. Especially for a prolonged period of time. Additionally, a miss means that all that entire burst's damage is out the window. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4824	Posted - 2013.12.20 10:17:00 - [11] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: You realize in order to get that magical 640 dps, you have to pull the trigger 6.6 times a second. Most humans can not do that. Especially for a prolonged period of time. Lmao, 6 times a second is definitely achieveable. Also, are you counting the time it takes for the burst to finish? Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 139	Posted - 2013.12.20 10:26:00 - [12] - Quote Actually it is 1003.9 DPS. Someone did the math before, 35.2 (base dmg for proto CR) X 1.15 (proficiency 5) X 1.24 (3 complex damage mods) X 20 (rounds per second) yep, at a simple 6.6 presses per second, which is easily achievable. Test yourself out here.
Izlare Lenix FREE AGENTS LP 40	Posted - 2013.12.20 10:40:00 - [13] - Quote Simple math 1200 rounds a min. 3 round burst means 400 bursts a min. 400/60 secs = 6.6 bursts a second needed. And yes some people can do that not all people. And always clicking the trigger correctly 6.6 times a second every time you fire the weapon is unrealistic. You will miss click sometimes, or you finger won't move properly. So that 640 dps is unrealistic.
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 802	Posted - 2013.12.20 10:41:00 - [14] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: Actually it is 1003.9 DPS. Someone did the math before, 35.2 (base dmg for proto CR) X 1.15 (proficiency 5) X 1.24 (3 complex damage mods) X 20 (rounds per second) yep, at a simple 6.6 presses per second, which is easily achievable. Test yourself out here. Fuck me that's ScR DPS. What even? >Cosgar: You know, tanks are actually paper thin once their modules are in cooldown.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4824	Posted - 2013.12.20 10:44:00 - [15] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: Simple math 1200 rounds a min. 3 round burst means 400 bursts a min. 400/60 secs = 6.6 bursts a second needed. And yes some people can do that not all people. And always clicking the trigger correctly 6.6 times a second every time you fire the weapon is unrealistic. You will miss click sometimes, or you finger won't move properly. So that 640 dps is unrealistic. It's realistic, ask the heavies I dropped with that DPS how unrealistic it is. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 141	Posted - 2013.12.20 10:47:00 - [16] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: Actually it is 1003.9 DPS. Someone did the math before, 35.2 (base dmg for proto CR) X 1.15 (proficiency 5) X 1.24 (3 complex damage mods) X 20 (rounds per second) yep, at a simple 6.6 presses per second, which is easily achievable. Test yourself out here. Fuck me that's ScR DPS. What even? SCR would require you to pull the trigger 50% faster for comparible DPS. So for 1000 DPS from a scrambler, you need to pull the trigger nearly 10 times a second (i.e. you need a turbo controller) Izlare Lenix wrote: Simple math 1200 rounds a min. 3 round burst means 400 bursts a min. 400/60 secs = 6.6 bursts a second needed. And yes some people can do that not all people. And always clicking the trigger correctly 6.6 times a second every time you fire the weapon is unrealistic. You will miss click sometimes, or you finger won't move properly. So that 640 dps is unrealistic. 640 DPS would require 4 clicks per second, now that is really easy.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 383	Posted - 2013.12.20 11:03:00 - [17] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: The assault seems to spit out way to much dps(hate that word) but note not too bad actually. I'd like to see how it is in one month. Actually it has less DPS than the AR. Just that it throws so much lead down range while hip firing that a miss hurts less than a miss with the AR. Not very much if i remember correctly something like 6 DPS less compared to a GEK while having more Range...the only drawback of the ACR is rahter low damage per clip. But in general all of the new rifles are way better than the good old AR...
Izlare Lenix FREE AGENTS LP 41	Posted - 2013.12.20 11:04:00 - [18] - Quote Strictly talking base stats, no skills, a basic combat rifle can do 640 dps if you can click the trigger 6.6 times a second. Most people can not do that constantly while maintaining accuracy of the weapon. And every time you miss that is 3 rounds not applied to your target. To empty the clip at that ROF would require 18 trigger pulls in under 3 seconds. Some people may be able to do that, but not every time. An automatic weapon always gives you the same ROF, a single shoot weapon does not.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 906	Posted - 2013.12.20 11:27:00 - [19] - Quote CR is an AK-47. AR is an M-16. AK-47 is a ***** a close range within 300 meters and will tear a big hole with a good spread. M-16 is single shot or 3 round burst that reaches about 800 meters (actually a little more) and is more accurate. So you either want to rip it up at CQ or sit back and aim in. Therefore, the regular AR means nothing and is redundant. I hope they remove it now that we have a close range full auto rifle. I like having the two variants rather than three on the rifles. It allows for other weapons to take on those modes of fire. Do your part. Join the revolution. Sabotage FW. Help this game burn! BURN DUST 2014
Pr0phetzReck0ning Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 136	Posted - 2013.12.20 13:11:00 - [20] - Quote X-eon wrote: If that's the case, the damage should be dropped a point or three for the assault variant since it's rof is so high The Assault CR does less damage than the Assault SMG... It does about 22 dmg. It doesnt need an even further damage reduction.

m twiggz Pradox One Proficiency V. 171	Posted - 2013.12.20 13:13:00 - [21] - Quote The CR is a lot of fun to play with. Definitely wouldn't call it OP in a general sense. If it's in the hands of a capable player then yes it's a great weapon. Most people can't perform that type of DPS. Whether it's bad aim, slow reaction or just plain stupidity. Definitely out performs any other LW in CQC, given you know what you're doing.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1278	Posted - 2013.12.20 13:24:00 - [22] - Quote Lets be honest all four rifles are too effective for their own good. However it MAY be possible to balance them without changing the damage. 1) Add some actual dispersion - currently you can hit a target with pinpoint accuraccy, there is no need for leading your target or anything. Now while adding projectile speeds for bullets would be overly intensive, we could at least have some dispersion even while ADS. 2) Add REAL recoil - the recoil on these weapons are pitiful at the moment not to mention that you go 15 rounds (520 damage) with absolutely none. Add recoil per shot, you can do it the hacky way and just move the barrel up a set amount after each shot, or you can do it properly, move it up, move it right, then move it down again (but not as much as it moved up) to increase immersion and feel of the weapon. 3) Remove the recoil reset function - currently even if you don't kill your opponent in the first 15 shots, you can keep firing until you stop hittimg him, then just feather the trigger and you are back where you started, completely nullifying recoil all together. You may have said its a feature but its not a very good one, it eliminates the need to readjust your gun after prolonged fire, which in turn reduces immersion, lowers skill level etc. 4) Add momentum dispersion - as you move you should become less accurate with your weapon, no matter how well you are trained. Simply add say 20% extra dispersion while moving, you could even add more during jumping if you want to discourage bunny hoping(wouldn't advise that but you could). Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 661	Posted - 2013.12.20 13:29:00 - [23] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Totally not OP with that 640 DPS that it can apply at pin point accuracy. Coughs Add delay between bursts coughs Finally I can agree with you on something lol
GET ATMESON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 199	Posted - 2013.12.20 13:37:00 - [24] - Quote Chibi Andy wrote: throw in the assault variants and you have a light version of the HMG, is there a need for us heavies anymore? OOO yes there is. This HMG hot fix works great. Now if your fighting some noob heavy youll put them down 1v1. Once the HMG hotfix came its been 1v5 Ill die 75% of the time killing 1 or 2. 1v4 is a goes 50/50 depending on whats going on ingame. 1v3 is easy stuff now :) even when shooting at 3 other proto in CQC. Dont have them buff the HMG again with this thread. I dont want to be OP. I like the way it is now. Dont need people saying the HMG is OP if they buff it again. I will nerd rage so hard. If you want to nerf something go after that long rage sniper Rail rifle 1.7 HMG hotfix works great. Now for more Heavy suits or guns soonGäó
thesupertman Better Hide R Die 67	Posted - 2013.12.20 13:40:00 - [25] - Quote after using the combat riffle for a long time, I can say its balanced. The rail riffle is OP tho..... I think I'm the only person still waiting for mechs/giant robot killing machines..... dangCCPyourslowpickupthepace
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4825	Posted - 2013.12.20 13:43:00 - [26] - Quote m twiggz wrote: The CR is a lot of fun to play with. Definitely wouldn't call it OP in a general sense. If it's in the hands of a capable player then yes it's a great weapon. Most people can't perform that type of DPS. Whether it's bad aim, slow reaction or just plain stupidity. Definitely out performs any other LW in CQC, given you know what you're doing. "Definitely out performs any other LW in CQC, given you know what you're doing" That's bad, considering the AR is supposed to do that. It has the least range for a reason. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 691	Posted - 2013.12.20 13:43:00 - [27] - Quote that pressing the trigger 6.6 times a second is inbetween each burst, to achieve a full auto variant, to do that right is basically impossible, if you want a real DPS you're gonna have to use a stopwatch to get your average RPS, Honestly to me it seems like people put in 3 bursts a second, which would be less than half, putting it well below the other full auto ARs average 500dps w/out prof & dmg mods for either.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4825	Posted - 2013.12.20 13:43:00 - [28] - Quote thesupertman wrote: after using the combat riffle for a long time, I can say its balanced. The rail riffle is OP tho..... After using all four rifles, I can tell you: CR/SCR > RR > AR Yes even in CQC Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4825	Posted - 2013.12.20 13:44:00 - [29] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: that pressing the trigger 6.6 times a second is inbetween each burst, to achieve a full auto variant, to do that right is basically impossible, if you want a real DPS you're gonna have to use a stopwatch to get your average RPS, Honestly to me it seems like people put in 3 bursts a second, which would be less than half, putting it well below the other full auto ARs average 500dps w/out prof & dmg mods for either. That's human error. Some one proficienct with it will learn it's kinks, and can maximize the fire rate. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
m twiggz Pradox One Proficiency V. 171	Posted - 2013.12.20 13:56:00 - [30] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: m twiggz wrote: The CR is a lot of fun to play with. Definitely wouldn't call it OP in a general sense. If it's in the hands of a capable player then yes it's a great weapon. Most people can't perform that type of DPS. Whether it's bad aim, slow reaction or just plain stupidity. Definitely out performs any other LW in CQC, given you know what you're doing. "Definitely out performs any other LW in CQC, given you know what you're doing" That's bad, considering the AR is supposed to do that. It has the least range for a reason. Agreed. You know as well as I do balancing is a foreign concept to CCP.

Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 264	Posted - 2013.12.20 14:09:00 - [31] - Quote I think you are all forgetting magazine size. With the CR I most often die during reload cycles. For the RoF it has, it has a very small clip. Gotta really manage that ammo.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4830	Posted - 2013.12.20 14:11:00 - [32] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: I think you are all forgetting magazine size. With the CR I most often die during reload cycles. For the RoF it has, it has a very small clip. Gotta really manage that ammo. And that's where it having the shortest reload speed comes in. I often get charged by enemies that think I'm in the reload animation, when in reality I'm already done. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Cosgar ParagonX 8930	Posted - 2013.12.20 14:17:00 - [33] - Quote ITT: Slow ass armor tankers that die fast to a weapon designed to kill them. Seriously, the standard sucks in CQC and in most cases going toe-to-toe with someone, but godly when flanking and poking people. The assault has terrible range and a nasty horizontal dispersion. If it weren't for Gallente and Amarr suits, these things would probably never get any kills. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
CYRAX SERVIUS Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 334	Posted - 2013.12.20 14:27:00 - [34] - Quote I love both my proto variants cat. Yes they will probably get Nerfed but will still be deadly with the accompanying skills properly advanced. CEO Invictus Maneo~ "I remain unvanquished"
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 1567	Posted - 2013.12.20 14:27:00 - [35] - Quote always complaining cat lol I am specced into all 4 rifles, and I switch between them for different scenarios. they all have their strength and their weaknesses, you can go 40/0 with all 4 guns, and they are all very effective in the right scenario's. why split hairs.
Mac Dac Wraith Shadow Guards D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 375	Posted - 2013.12.20 14:33:00 - [36] - Quote oh, you know it is getting nerfed. "We should take care not to make intellect our god; it has, of course, strong muscles, but no personality" Albert Einste
Knight Soiaire BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 3843	Posted - 2013.12.20 14:37:00 - [37] - Quote OP is armour tanker. DUST is so broken, even my PS3 refuses to let me play it.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1812	Posted - 2013.12.20 14:38:00 - [38] - Quote calisk galern wrote: always complaining cat lol I am specced into all 4 rifles, and I switch between them for different scenarios. the dps of the CR is just the highest, one of the 4 guns have to be, past that each other gun has it's own advantages as well except for the AR which IMO is the just an all around good gun that can handle any scenario very well, so I use it when I will be facing multiple targets at varying ranges, it's especially good since I don't need to reload as often. they all have their strength and their weaknesses, you can go 40/0 with all 4 guns, and they are all very effective in the right scenario's. why split hairs. This here, I have every ar at proto except the RR, I have that at ADV. Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1812	Posted - 2013.12.20 14:41:00 - [39] - Quote Cosgar wrote: ITT: Slow ass armor tankers that die fast to a weapon designed to kill them. Seriously, the standard sucks in CQC and in most cases going toe-to-toe with someone, but godly when flanking and poking people. The assault has terrible range and a nasty horizontal dispersion. If it weren't for Gallente and Amarr suits, these things would probably never get any kills. This also, I use my caldari assault or minmatar assault a lot now, most people are still armour tanking wondering why they got buggered, I switch up suits dependent on the enemy composition. Most players don't and keep going at it with the same fit over and over again, then they either get in a tank or snipe, easily ignored. Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
ugg reset Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 419	Posted - 2013.12.20 14:44:00 - [40] - Quote Am I the only one here who thinks that the Rail rifle is better a long/med range than the CR is at short range? quando omni flunkus, moritati

calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 1568	Posted - 2013.12.20 14:45:00 - [41] - Quote ugg reset wrote: Am I the only one here who thinks that the Rail rifle is better a long/med range than the CR is at short range? it is by a lot. if i'm using my CR I never engage at long range against a RR I move into short-mid range. if it's an assault RR I never engage front on, those things can murder a CR user in heavy armor like they were nothing.
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 285	Posted - 2013.12.20 14:52:00 - [42] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: Actually it is 1003.9 DPS. Someone did the math before, 35.2 (base dmg for proto CR) X 1.15 (proficiency 5) X 1.24 (3 complex damage mods) X 20 (rounds per second) yep, at a simple 6.6 presses per second, which is easily achievable. Test yourself out here. You can't add in damage mods, not everyone uses 3 or any at all.
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 141	Posted - 2013.12.20 19:40:00 - [43] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: that pressing the trigger 6.6 times a second is inbetween each burst, to achieve a full auto variant, to do that right is basically impossible, if you want a real DPS you're gonna have to use a stopwatch to get your average RPS, Honestly to me it seems like people put in 3 bursts a second, which would be less than half, putting it well below the other full auto ARs average 500dps w/out prof & dmg mods for either. Actually 3 clicks per second is incredibly slow, and I am sure you can achieve at least 5 per second. Using your 3 per second figure means that the imperial SCR is at max (skills,dmg mods) doing 360 DPS and would never overheat, a rfile no one could ever consider overpowered. Izlare Lenix wrote: Strictly talking base stats, no skills, a basic combat rifle can do 640 dps if you can click the trigger 6.6 times a second. Most people can not do that constantly while maintaining accuracy of the weapon. And every time you miss that is 3 rounds not applied to your target. To empty the clip at that ROF would require 18 trigger pulls in under 3 seconds. Some people may be able to do that, but not every time. An automatic weapon always gives you the same ROF, a single shoot weapon does not. Also to henchmen: Basic Stats(basic variant no skills no damage mods with pulling the trigger 6.6 times per second): AR: 425 DPS CR: 640 DPS SCR: 475.2 DPS RR: 423 DPS Can you spot the outlying rifle? I'll give you a hint, it is the one doing 33% more damage than the rest of the weapons. I am not sure if you two actually realize how slow 3 trigger pulls per second actually is. This means over a 10 second period, you could only pull the trigger 30 times. Like I said earlier, go to this website and check how fast you can click per second. OF course this is academic, you balance around what is the maximum output of any weapon, not what you deem to be typical usage. If you don't you get people using turbo controllers or whatever that completely breaks the game. Case in point: Using a turbo controller a base (no skilss or mods) SCR can do like 850 DPS. This gives some people a HUGE advantage (of course the rifle overheats in 1.5 seconds). Honestly that should be nerfed down to 400 RPM like that TAC AR was. So why did CCP shoose 400 RPM? It is because that is what is achievable for at least most people in click per second (6.6 clicks per second) TLDR: CR does 33% more damage than the rest of the rifles any way you slice it.
calvin b SCAVENGER'S DAUGHTER 1276	Posted - 2013.12.20 19:46:00 - [44] - Quote STOP THE F*** NERF THREADS. I am sick of you whining a children. Like I have said before and will say again The AR is OP it needs a nerf The ScR is OP it needs a nerf The CR is OP it needs a nerf The RR is OP it needs a nerf Do you know what these have in common. You suck at dust is what is common, the weapons are fine you need to get better or go play another game may I suggest you find a game for children 3 and under. The evil hidden in the name
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Public Disorder. 57	Posted - 2013.12.20 20:00:00 - [45] - Quote We keep talking about how all the new rifles are all OP over each other. Yet no one seems to care that there are over 10+ other weapons in this game that don't seem to f@#king matter Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 143	Posted - 2013.12.20 20:21:00 - [46] - Quote calvin b wrote: STOP THE F*** NERF THREADS. I am sick of you whining a children. Like I have said before and will say again The AR is OP it needs a nerf The ScR is OP it needs a nerf The CR is OP it needs a nerf The RR is OP it needs a nerf Do you know what these have in common. You suck at dust is what is common, the weapons are fine you need to get better or go play another game may I suggest you find a game for children 3 and under. Your crying about crying.....
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 849	Posted - 2013.12.20 21:01:00 - [47] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: Actually it is 1003.9 DPS. Someone did the math before, 35.2 (base dmg for proto CR) X 1.15 (proficiency 5) X 1.24 (3 complex damage mods) X 20 (rounds per second) yep, at a simple 6.6 presses per second, which is easily achievable. Test yourself out here. Fuck me that's ScR DPS. What even? SCR would require you to pull the trigger 50% faster for comparible DPS. Oh yeah and it overheats. So for 1000 DPS from a scrambler, you need to pull the trigger nearly 10 times a second (i.e. you need a turbo controller) Is that ScR base damage? Or is that with lvl 5 prof & 3 complex damage mods like you showed on the CR? I don't know how much you've used the CR, but timing one burst after the next isn't something most can do consistently. You may tag two to three bursts in a row without missing the rhythm, but even a millisecond too early and you stutter the burst having to pull the trigger again, and too late and you automatically cut your DPS. You are talking about it's DPS as if everyone playing this game has a computer calculating exactly when to pull the trigger and pulling the trigger for them at exactly the right time to get maximum DPS. Apart from the handful of scrubs who use turbo controllers, this is FAR from the case. In addition, CR has to hit with all of it's rounds per trigger pull for it's DPS to count, so if your aim is even slightly to the side and your crosshairs slip off mid burst, part of your burst doesn't even register and just causes shield flares . The ScR is an Alpha damage weapon. It's round hits with all it's damage at once damage, and it has a charged shot which can OHK many suits. It can also fully kill almost any suit with a charged shot plus 3-4 follow ups regardless of it's shield/armor ratio. The RoF for the ScR is high enough that there are very few people who can actually stutter it's fire pattern by accidentally firing too fast, and it's cooldown time is fast enough to move from one engagement to the next with very little delay (ask Arkena Wyrnspire, we all remember THOSE threads from a few weeks ago). On top of all that, it get's a larger than usual headshot multiplier, which means a headshot with a charged round is absolutely devastating (I've seen plenty of kb/m players using this to their advantage). It's basically a long range shotgun that overheats. And can be fired pretty much fired as fast as you can pull the trigger. And can be charged. And has insanely strong hip-fire aim assist. Keep trying to make the CR out to be better, it's not working bro. Ulthane: Now get off of my property, 'fore more pigeons come looking an' crap on me yard! Overlord's: Ulath Bosse Zero
Ghost Kaisar Kinsho Swords Caldari State 1273	Posted - 2013.12.20 21:05:00 - [48] - Quote Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: Shield tank, problem solved. EDIT: Combat rifles do 15% less damage against shields than they do armor. ( - 5 % shields, +10% armor, becomes 15% WORSE against shields than armor) Well yeah, but you should consider the damage standpoint from solely the shield side. 617.5 DPS isn't that bad, and you can melt most shield tanks in a second. That 715 DPS vs. Armor though. Me like. Minmatar Faction Warfare: Let's get Organized
Tectonic Fusion 766	Posted - 2013.12.20 21:16:00 - [49] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: CR is an AK-47. AR is an M-16. AK-47 is a *** a close range within 300 meters and will tear a big hole with a good spread. M-16 is single shot or 3 round burst that reaches about 800 meters (actually a little more) and is more accurate. So you either want to rip it up at CQ or sit back and aim in. Therefore, the regular AR means nothing and is redundant. I hope they remove it now that we have a close range full auto rifle. I like having the two variants rather than three on the rifles. It allows for other weapons to take on those modes of fire. The AR is far more superior than the combat rifle at range... Solo Player Squad status: Locked**
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 386	Posted - 2013.12.20 21:22:00 - [50] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: CR is an AK-47. AR is an M-16. AK-47 is a ***** a close range within 300 meters and will tear a big hole with a good spread. M-16 is single shot or 3 round burst that reaches about 800 meters (actually a little more) and is more accurate. So you either want to rip it up at CQ or sit back and aim in. Therefore, the regular AR means nothing and is redundant. I hope they remove it now that we have a close range full auto rifle. I like having the two variants rather than three on the rifles. It allows for other weapons to take on those modes of fire. Git em backwards bro... Also, the DpC(clip) is extremely high on the GalAR. Something like 2400 on MILITIA. So gallente owns in being able to drop 2-4 people a clip, whereas minmatar is good at fighting 1v1 or v2 at proto. That is of course, assuming scramblers or Caldaris aren't involved. Under 28db Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14) I have a God, His name is Dakka.

Akdhar Saif Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 101	Posted - 2013.12.20 21:25:00 - [51] - Quote If it makes CCP money through AUR purchases it will remain OP. OP items will just frustrate people into buying them, making CCP lots of nice money.
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 143	Posted - 2013.12.20 21:35:00 - [52] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: Actually it is 1003.9 DPS. Someone did the math before, 35.2 (base dmg for proto CR) X 1.15 (proficiency 5) X 1.24 (3 complex damage mods) X 20 (rounds per second) yep, at a simple 6.6 presses per second, which is easily achievable. Test yourself out here. Fuck me that's ScR DPS. What even? SCR would require you to pull the trigger 50% faster for comparible DPS. Oh yeah and it overheats. So for 1000 DPS from a scrambler, you need to pull the trigger nearly 10 times a second (i.e. you need a turbo controller) Is that ScR base damage? Or is that with lvl 5 prof & 3 complex damage mods like you showed on the CR? I don't know how much you've used the CR, but timing one burst after the next isn't something most can do consistently. You may tag two to three bursts in a row without missing the rhythm, but even a millisecond too early and you stutter the burst having to pull the trigger again, and too late and you automatically cut your DPS. You are talking about it's DPS as if everyone playing this game has a computer calculating exactly when to pull the trigger and pulling the trigger for them at exactly the right time to get maximum DPS. Apart from the handful of scrubs who use turbo controllers, this is FAR from the case. In addition, CR has to hit with all of it's rounds per trigger pull for it's DPS to count, so if your aim is even slightly to the side and your crosshairs slip off mid burst, part of your burst doesn't even register and just causes shield flares . The ScR is an Alpha damage weapon. It's round hits with all it's damage at once damage, and it has a charged shot which can OHK many suits. It can also fully kill almost any suit with a charged shot plus 3-4 follow ups regardless of it's shield/armor ratio. The RoF for the ScR is high enough that there are very few people who can actually stutter it's fire pattern by accidentally firing too fast, and it's cooldown time is fast enough to move from one engagement to the next with very little delay (ask Arkena Wyrnspire, we all remember THOSE threads from a few weeks ago). On top of all that, it get's a larger than usual headshot multiplier, which means a headshot with a charged round is absolutely devastating (I've seen plenty of kb/m players using this to their advantage). It's basically a long range shotgun that overheats. And can be fired pretty much fired as fast as you can pull the trigger. And can be charged. And has insanely strong hip-fire aim assist. Keep trying to make the CR out to be better, it's not working bro. 1) In order to stutter the fire pattern of a CR(assuming this actually happens), you must be mashing the button faster than 6.6667 times per second, something you and your counter-parts deem unlikely. 2) I can unload the entire clip in 3 seconds, that means a DPS of 634 base. I have seen this happen many, many times. 3) that is the lvl 5 prof 5 3 dmg mod SCR (actually you can fire 11.75 times per second for 1320 DPS for 1.5secs and then 5 seconds of being defensless) 4) hitting with rounds applies to all weapons, not just the SCR. We are arguing damage potential. I could miss with all of the rounds of an AR or SCR and that is 0 DPS plus being defenseless on overheat for 5 seconds, doesn't change the amount of damage I can do with it. 5) Most people believe hip-fire for the SCR has been nerfed in 1.7 In the end though, the CR does 143% more DPS than an AR while having more range, nothing you say changes that. BOTH the SCR and the CR need a RoF nerf.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1281	Posted - 2013.12.20 22:32:00 - [53] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: Actually it is 1003.9 DPS. Someone did the math before, 35.2 (base dmg for proto CR) X 1.15 (proficiency 5) X 1.24 (3 complex damage mods) X 20 (rounds per second) yep, at a simple 6.6 presses per second, which is easily achievable. Test yourself out here. Fuck me that's ScR DPS. What even? SCR would require you to pull the trigger 50% faster for comparible DPS. Oh yeah and it overheats. So for 1000 DPS from a scrambler, you need to pull the trigger nearly 10 times a second (i.e. you need a turbo controller) Is that ScR base damage? Or is that with lvl 5 prof & 3 complex damage mods like you showed on the CR? I don't know how much you've used the CR, but timing one burst after the next isn't something most can do consistently. You may tag two to three bursts in a row without missing the rhythm, but even a millisecond too early and you stutter the burst having to pull the trigger again, and too late and you automatically cut your DPS. You are talking about it's DPS as if everyone playing this game has a computer calculating exactly when to pull the trigger and pulling the trigger for them at exactly the right time to get maximum DPS. Apart from the handful of scrubs who use turbo controllers, this is FAR from the case. In addition, CR has to hit with all of it's rounds per trigger pull for it's DPS to count, so if your aim is even slightly to the side and your crosshairs slip off mid burst, part of your burst doesn't even register and just causes shield flares . The ScR is an Alpha damage weapon. It's round hits with all it's damage at once damage, and it has a charged shot which can OHK many suits. It can also fully kill almost any suit with a charged shot plus 3-4 follow ups regardless of it's shield/armor ratio. The RoF for the ScR is high enough that there are very few people who can actually stutter it's fire pattern by accidentally firing too fast, and it's cooldown time is fast enough to move from one engagement to the next with very little delay (ask Arkena Wyrnspire, we all remember THOSE threads from a few weeks ago). On top of all that, it get's a larger than usual headshot multiplier, which means a headshot with a charged round is absolutely devastating (I've seen plenty of kb/m players using this to their advantage). It's basically a long range shotgun that overheats. And can be fired pretty much fired as fast as you can pull the trigger. And can be charged. And has insanely strong hip-fire aim assist. Keep trying to make the CR out to be better, it's not working bro. 1) In order to stutter the fire pattern of a CR(assuming this actually happens), you must be mashing the button faster than 6.6667 times per second, something you and your counter-parts deem unlikely. 2) I can unload the entire clip in 3 seconds, that means a DPS of 634 base. I have seen this happen many, many times. 3) that is the lvl 5 prof 5 3 dmg mod SCR (actually you can fire 11.75 times per second for 1320 DPS for 1.5secs and then 5 seconds of being defensless) 4) hitting with rounds applies to all weapons, not just the SCR. We are arguing damage potential. I could miss with all of the rounds of an AR or SCR and that is 0 DPS plus being defenseless on overheat for 5 seconds, doesn't change the amount of damage I can do with it. 5) Most people believe hip-fire for the SCR has been nerfed in 1.7 In the end though, the CR does 143% more DPS than an AR while having more range, nothing you say changes that. BOTH the SCR and the CR need a RoF nerf. In the end even the rail rifle has nearly double the dps of any other none rifle weapons. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 515	Posted - 2013.12.20 22:38:00 - [54] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Totally not OP with that 640 DPS that it can apply at pin point accuracy. Coughs Add delay between bursts coughs Wtf semi automatic rifles fire everytime you pull the trigger. We already got a reta.rded Duvolle tactical nerf where they nerfed it like that... fml these forums and the people on it.
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 544	Posted - 2013.12.20 22:50:00 - [55] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Lets be honest all four rifles are too effective for their own good. However it MAY be possible to balance them without changing the damage. 1) Add some actual dispersion - currently you can hit a target with pinpoint accuraccy, there is no need for leading your target or anything. Now while adding projectile speeds for bullets would be overly intensive, we could at least have some dispersion even while ADS. 2) Add REAL recoil - the recoil on these weapons are pitiful at the moment not to mention that you go 15 rounds (520 damage) with absolutely none. Add recoil per shot, you can do it the hacky way and just move the barrel up a set amount after each shot, or you can do it properly, move it up, move it right, then move it down again (but not as much as it moved up) to increase immersion and feel of the weapon. 3) Remove the recoil reset function - currently even if you don't kill your opponent in the first 15 shots, you can keep firing until you stop hittimg him, then just feather the trigger and you are back where you started, completely nullifying recoil all together. You may have said its a feature but its not a very good one, it eliminates the need to readjust your gun after prolonged fire, which in turn reduces immersion, lowers skill level etc. 4) Add momentum dispersion - as you move you should become less accurate with your weapon, no matter how well you are trained. Simply add say 20% extra dispersion while moving, you could even add more during jumping if you want to discourage bunny hoping(wouldn't advise that but you could). While I agree in principle- you do know the CR has more dispersion and recoil than the AR
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1282	Posted - 2013.12.20 22:56:00 - [56] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Lets be honest all four rifles are too effective for their own good. However it MAY be possible to balance them without changing the damage. 1) Add some actual dispersion - currently you can hit a target with pinpoint accuraccy, there is no need for leading your target or anything. Now while adding projectile speeds for bullets would be overly intensive, we could at least have some dispersion even while ADS. 2) Add REAL recoil - the recoil on these weapons are pitiful at the moment not to mention that you go 15 rounds (520 damage) with absolutely none. Add recoil per shot, you can do it the hacky way and just move the barrel up a set amount after each shot, or you can do it properly, move it up, move it right, then move it down again (but not as much as it moved up) to increase immersion and feel of the weapon. 3) Remove the recoil reset function - currently even if you don't kill your opponent in the first 15 shots, you can keep firing until you stop hittimg him, then just feather the trigger and you are back where you started, completely nullifying recoil all together. You may have said its a feature but its not a very good one, it eliminates the need to readjust your gun after prolonged fire, which in turn reduces immersion, lowers skill level etc. 4) Add momentum dispersion - as you move you should become less accurate with your weapon, no matter how well you are trained. Simply add say 20% extra dispersion while moving, you could even add more during jumping if you want to discourage bunny hoping(wouldn't advise that but you could). While I agree in principle- you do know the CR has more dispersion and recoil than the AR Only while not ADS, recoil as pointed out is pointless, you can still get 2-3 bursts before feathering the trigger, but with a burst rifle you feather it all the time, making it more pointless. The Rifles would be balanced IF it wasn't so easy to hit the target, the potential DPS is high and rightly so, but it should require skill to achieve that kind of damage. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 308	Posted - 2013.12.20 23:22:00 - [57] - Quote lee corwood wrote: We keep talking about how all the new rifles are all OP over each other. Yet no one seems to care that there are over 10+ other weapons in this game that don't seem to f@#king matter Hey look, a sane opinion.
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 544	Posted - 2013.12.20 23:32:00 - [58] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Lets be honest all four rifles are too effective for their own good. However it MAY be possible to balance them without changing the damage. 1) Add some actual dispersion - currently you can hit a target with pinpoint accuraccy, there is no need for leading your target or anything. Now while adding projectile speeds for bullets would be overly intensive, we could at least have some dispersion even while ADS. 2) Add REAL recoil - the recoil on these weapons are pitiful at the moment not to mention that you go 15 rounds (520 damage) with absolutely none. Add recoil per shot, you can do it the hacky way and just move the barrel up a set amount after each shot, or you can do it properly, move it up, move it right, then move it down again (but not as much as it moved up) to increase immersion and feel of the weapon. 3) Remove the recoil reset function - currently even if you don't kill your opponent in the first 15 shots, you can keep firing until you stop hittimg him, then just feather the trigger and you are back where you started, completely nullifying recoil all together. You may have said its a feature but its not a very good one, it eliminates the need to readjust your gun after prolonged fire, which in turn reduces immersion, lowers skill level etc. 4) Add momentum dispersion - as you move you should become less accurate with your weapon, no matter how well you are trained. Simply add say 20% extra dispersion while moving, you could even add more during jumping if you want to discourage bunny hoping(wouldn't advise that but you could). While I agree in principle- you do know the CR has more dispersion and recoil than the AR Only while not ADS, recoil as pointed out is pointless, you can still get 2-3 bursts before feathering the trigger, but with a burst rifle you feather it all the time, making it more pointless. The Rifles would be balanced IF it wasn't so easy to hit the target, the potential DPS is high and rightly so, but it should require skill to achieve that kind of damage. Wholeheartedly agree
Bunny Demon Scions of Athra 30	Posted - 2013.12.20 23:37:00 - [59] - Quote Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: Shield tank, problem solved. EDIT: Combat rifles do 15% less damage against shields than they do armor. ( - 5 % shields, +10% armor, becomes 15% WORSE against shields than armor) Not quite, let's assume we have dps of 100 (it's a nice number) so in 1 second you will do: 95 damage to shield OR 110 damage to armour The percentage difference is 1-(110/95) which equals 15.78% so it's actually closer to 16% less damage against shields compared to armour You have just been educated Ps (it's effin' armour not armor ) Donate isk to the guy above ^ (Or me, whichever you prefer)
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1282	Posted - 2013.12.20 23:43:00 - [60] - Quote Bunny Demon wrote: Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: Shield tank, problem solved. EDIT: Combat rifles do 15% less damage against shields than they do armor. ( - 5 % shields, +10% armor, becomes 15% WORSE against shields than armor) Not quite, let's assume we have dps of 100 (it's a nice number) so in 1 second you will do: 95 damage to shield OR 110 damage to armour The percentage difference is 1-(110/95) which equals 15.78% so it's actually closer to 16% less damage against shields compared to armour You have just been educated Ps (it's effin' armour not armor ) did they redo damage profiles? I thought it was, Projectile(Combat Rifle) - +20% armour -20% shields Hybrid Projectile(Rail Rifle) +10% armour -10% shields Hybrid Energy (Plasma Rifle) -10% armour +10% shields Energy(Scrambler Rifle) -20% armour +20% shields Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5960	Posted - 2013.12.20 23:45:00 - [61] - Quote Aaaannnnd now comes the nerf CR threads. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 879	Posted - 2013.12.20 23:50:00 - [62] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: that pressing the trigger 6.6 times a second is inbetween each burst, to achieve a full auto variant, to do that right is basically impossible, if you want a real DPS you're gonna have to use a stopwatch to get your average RPS, Honestly to me it seems like people put in 3 bursts a second, which would be less than half, putting it well below the other full auto ARs average 500dps w/out prof & dmg mods for either. Actually 3 clicks per second is incredibly slow, and I am sure you can achieve at least 5 per second. Using your 3 per second figure means that the imperial SCR is at max (skills,dmg mods) doing 360 DPS and would never overheat, a rfile no one could ever consider overpowered. Izlare Lenix wrote: Strictly talking base stats, no skills, a basic combat rifle can do 640 dps if you can click the trigger 6.6 times a second. Most people can not do that constantly while maintaining accuracy of the weapon. And every time you miss that is 3 rounds not applied to your target. To empty the clip at that ROF would require 18 trigger pulls in under 3 seconds. Some people may be able to do that, but not every time. An automatic weapon always gives you the same ROF, a single shoot weapon does not. Also to henchmen: Basic Stats(basic variant no skills no damage mods with pulling the trigger 6.6 times per second): AR: 425 DPS CR: 640 DPS SCR: 475.2 DPS RR: 423 DPS Can you spot the outlying rifle? I'll give you a hint, it is the one doing 33% more damage than the rest of the weapons. I am not sure if you two actually realize how slow 3 trigger pulls per second actually is. This means over a 10 second period, you could only pull the trigger 30 times. Like I said earlier, go to this website and check how fast you can click per second. OF course this is academic, you balance around what is the maximum output of any weapon, not what you deem to be typical usage. If you don't you get people using turbo controllers or whatever that completely breaks the game. Case in point: Using a turbo controller a base (no skilss or mods) SCR can do like 850 DPS. This gives some people a HUGE advantage (of course the rifle overheats in 1.5 seconds). Honestly that should be nerfed down to 400 RPM like that TAC AR was. So why did CCP shoose 400 RPM? It is because that is what is achievable for at least most people in click per second (6.6 clicks per second) TLDR: CR does 33% more damage than the rest of the rifles any way you slice it. I tested that website, I got 4.5 3-5 clicks per second is average. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 404	Posted - 2013.12.20 23:59:00 - [63] - Quote lee corwood wrote: We keep talking about how all the new rifles are all OP over each other. Yet no one seems to care that there are over 10+ other weapons in this game that don't seem to f@#king matter Nobody cares about these weapons anymore, even CCP. Unless one of them becomes OP then comes the Nerf hammer to put them into oblivion. But if any of the ARs become OP they just let it go as long as the other ARs compete.
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 2362	Posted - 2013.12.21 00:04:00 - [64] - Quote :D Suck it armor tankers. -Shield Tankers I have to deal with the ridiculous scrambler rifle. You can deal with my low damage high ROF bullet hose. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Horizen Kenpachi Kenpachi's Castle 48	Posted - 2013.12.21 00:19:00 - [65] - Quote Pr0phetzReck0ning wrote: X-eon wrote: If that's the case, the damage should be dropped a point or three for the assault variant since it's rof is so high The Assault CR does less damage than the Assault SMG... It does about 22 dmg. It doesnt need an even further damage reduction. What are there rates of fire Hit me with your nerf bat.
Azri Sarum BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 220	Posted - 2013.12.21 00:20:00 - [66] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: Basic Stats(basic variant no skills no damage mods with pulling the trigger 6.6 times per second): AR: 425 DPS CR: 640 DPS SCR: 475.2 DPS RR: 423 DPS Can you spot the outlying rifle? I'll give you a hint, it is the one doing 33% more damage than the rest of the weapons. snip TLDR: CR does 33% more damage than the rest of the rifles any way you slice it. TL;DR - decrease CR rof to 900, should not affect feel of this weapon. Increase it, and ACR pg by two points. Increase ACR ammo pool by 1 clip. One dimensional analysis can be rather mis-leading. Lets look at all of the new weapons with a few more stats to get a better picture of how things are balanced. These are the stats i'm getting. If the weapon is semi-auto (SCR/CR) then i used a rof of 6.6 times per second. For the fully automatic weapons i'm using their full dps since you just hold down the trigger. * denotes the semi-automatic weapons. I'm also going to preface this by stating upfront that I am using the ACR as my primary weapon, switching to CR on occasion. Just to make it clear where my bias lies. Weapon - DPS - Clip Size(Damage per clip) - Damage per loadout - Fitting score (PG5 + CPU) AR - 468 - 60(2082) - 11220 - 155 TAR - 524 - 18(1414) - 23562 - 155 CR - 697 - 54(1900.8) - 11405 - 121 ACR - 464 - 68(1577.6) - 9466 - 118 SCR - 523 - 45(3564) - 17820 - 192 ASCR - 466 - 72(2851) - 12870 - 158 RR - 465 - 42(2541) - 15246 - 169 ARR - 472 - 42(1981) - 11892 - 147 DPS So looking at all these numbers we can see that compared to the other semi-auto weapons the CR is outperforming. Its rate of fire needs to be lowered down to about 900 to bring it into line. Both of the new rail rifles, along with the ACR look to be in good shape dps wise. Now, how about the rest of the stats. Damage per clip, damage per loadout, and fitting. There is a lot of give and take to be had here for a weapon to be considered balanced. Looking at these values I think there are two changes I would suggest to ccp. The first would be a bump to the ACR's ammo pool. If they are going to change the Minmatar suit bonus to be +5% projectile clip size (like i am expecting) then the ACR will be in a good spot. The second would be to increase the fitting costs of the CR and ARC slightly. I think a couple points to pg would be spot on. The racial goal of having cheap fitting would be achieved, while not being slightly to cheap (imo). Overall, for new weapons, and given CCP's track record, I think they did a marvelous job with the initial balance of these weapons. EVE - Victor Maximus DUST - Azri Sarum
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1103	Posted - 2013.12.21 00:29:00 - [67] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: You realize in order to get that magical 640 dps, you have to pull the trigger 6.6 times a second. Most humans can not do that. Especially for a prolonged period of time. I can click a mouse 8 times a second. I use a DS3, but I don't think my DPS is so far off from the cap. CR on a standard Heavy with 2 reps and a damage mod is my favourite suit atm. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4841	Posted - 2013.12.21 07:32:00 - [68] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: :D Suck it armor tankers. -Shield Tankers I have to deal with the ridiculous scrambler rifle. You can deal with my low damage high ROF bullet hose. Uhh... It has -5% to shields instead of -10%, it's practically an anti shield weapon too. It's your problem too. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 1161	Posted - 2013.12.21 08:54:00 - [69] - Quote With something like the CR, why would anyone use the AR ever again?
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4841	Posted - 2013.12.21 09:03:00 - [70] - Quote 8213 wrote: With something like the CR, why would anyone use the AR ever again? ^ CCP went ultimate troll against the AR nerf brigade and "nerfed" the AR by bringing in even more powerful assault rifles :P Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos

Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 387	Posted - 2013.12.21 09:08:00 - [71] - Quote Because a gar has 60 shots a clip, and can kill 2-4 adv suits reliably. My BOUNDLESS cr with prof1 and 2 damage mods needs to reload after every kill, maybe every other if i land headshots. With almost all headshots i can down a heavy-using the full clip save 3-12 rounds. It reloads fast, so guess what? We have an Ammo-consuming DPS hose that sprays people with spitwads until they drop. (Minmatar philosophy) low damage per shot, moderately low range, SUPER HIGH DPS, and focus on Burst damage. Working as intended? Working as intended. Under 28db Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14) I have a God, His name is Dakka.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4841	Posted - 2013.12.21 10:22:00 - [72] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Because a gar has 60 shots a clip, and can kill 2-4 adv suits reliably. My BOUNDLESS cr with prof1 and 2 damage mods needs to reload after every kill, maybe every other if i land headshots. With almost all headshots i can down a heavy-using the full clip save 3-12 rounds. It reloads fast, so guess what? We have an Ammo-consuming DPS hose that sprays people with spitwads until they drop. (Minmatar philosophy) low damage per shot, moderately low range, SUPER HIGH DPS, and focus on Burst damage. Working as intended? Working as intended. 32 damage vs 34 damage per bullet. Seems legit Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 854	Posted - 2013.12.21 23:19:00 - [73] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: 1) In order to stutter the fire pattern of a CR(assuming this actually happens), you must be mashing the button faster than 6.6667 times per second, something you and your counter-parts deem unlikely. 2) I can unload the entire clip in 3 seconds, that means a DPS of 634 base. I have seen this happen many, many times. 3) that is the lvl 5 prof 5 3 dmg mod SCR (actually you can fire 11.75 times per second for 1320 DPS for 1.5secs and then 5 seconds of being defensless) 4) hitting with rounds applies to all weapons, not just the SCR. We are arguing damage potential. I could miss with all of the rounds of an AR or SCR and that is 0 DPS plus being defenseless on overheat for 5 seconds, doesn't change the amount of damage I can do with it. 5) Most people believe hip-fire for the SCR has been nerfed in 1.7 In the end though, the CR does 143% more DPS than an AR while having more range, nothing you say changes that. BOTH the SCR and the CR need a RoF nerf. 1) I never said any such thing. And stuttering the pattern means hitting the button too quickly, nullifying your next burst until you can let off of the trigger and pull it again. Not an actual in-game mechanic of stuttering it. 2) Yeah, because you totally have a timer counting just how fast it takes you to empty a clip, and it happens to be exactly 3 seconds. Video with proof + proof of no turbo controller, or it didn't happen. 3) 1320 in 1.5 seconds if you don't use your charged shot first, which is what almost every ScR user starts off a gun fight doing. How much does a charged shot do again with your math applied? Also, insane headshot bonus. Just sayin' 4) Hitting with rounds on the CR requires a lot more player tracking. You let off the trigger when your crosshair crosses the enemy with the ScR, you have to follow your target with the CR to make sure every round hits. Was pointing this out because pure DPM is not makes a weapon better, otherwise everyone in the game would be running around with assault forge guns. A lot of factors come into play when balancing one weapon with another. (such as the aforementioned headshot bonus and charged shot) 5) Most people are stupid. I recall back in Chromosome for like a month almost everyone in the game had thought that logis and assaults had gotten a strafe speed increase when the devs gave one to the scouts. Until the Dev's got on the forums and told them they were nuts and they had only improved the framerate a bit and tweaked the logi hit-box, assaults being entirely unaffected. Point is you can't suggest something happened off of popular forum opinion. Now, as for that last statement, I'll say it again. *The DPS of a weapon is not what makes it good.* The DPS is an important factor, but so is accuracy, the level of challenge with the aim, the amount of tracking required, recoil, dispersion, damage dropoff, etc., etc., etc.. Changing the DPS of one or two weapons won't bring them in line with other weapons which is what is needed for balanced TTK, and balancing the other AR's against eachother will NOT fix all of the other weapons in this game, nor fix the TTK. As for what I think should happen, I'll just quote myself from a few days ago: Baal Omniscient wrote: ......all of the weapons in this game and most of the fits (probably even scouts) would be perfectly balanced if the proficiency damage increase and damage mods were removed. 1 complex mod plus proficiency 5 is a 25% damage increase to a weapon. Want balance? Reduce the range and ammo carry capacities of all weapons, replace damage mods with weapon range amplifiers and ammo capacity upgrades, and change proficiency to something unique to each weapon instead of a flat damage buff. Even if you just made the damage buff work for the weapon's strength instead of a flat overall damage increase it would be worth it (i.e. SMG's & combat rifles get a buff to armor damage per proficiency level, ScR's and lasers get a buff to shield damage per proficiency level)...... The higher a weapon's DPS, the bigger the buff it gets from proficiency and damage mods. This would cut down the DPS of all weapons, however more than just that it would bring the higher DPS weapons down closer to the level of other weapons. In addition to that, it would make choosing whether to go for armor or shields much more important. You'd also have to choose whether you want to carry more ammo, have better range, have more HP, passive scan people within your scan radius, or have a larger scan radius. The low slots already have many options, high slots will finally have viable options. If you couple this with fixing passive scanner modules (if you make them viable you also make range amplifiers viable, this giving you 5 viable high slot modules [shields, scan range amps, passive scan precision amps, ammo amps & range amps]) and a few other tweaks here and there, this game could be balanced for every weapon in the game instead of just for the AR's. Not to mention 10x more diverse in fitting options. It would also make dampners far more important with people passive scanning without giving "YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED" messages. Ulthane: Now get off of my property, 'fore more pigeons come looking an' crap on me yard! Overlord's: Ulath Bosse Zero


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