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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
1558
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Posted - 2013.12.17 13:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm just wondering if someone at CCP has been looking at the list of priorities upside down.
LP Store before P2P Market?
Rifle parity before Dropsuit parity?
Vehicle/AV balance (attempted) without the full line of vehicles or Pilot suits (if they are still coming) ?
Restructuring Orbital/Precision/Tactical Strikes, but still using the same 2500 WP as when squads were only 4 players, and fewer ways to gain WP?
Is there any form of management there or do you guys just implement whatever you want, whenever you want without any rhyme or reason?
I would really like to know the reasoning there.
Make it make sense to me/us.
Alyssa Milano.
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
222
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Posted - 2013.12.17 13:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:LP Store before P2P Market?
Updating FW to include an LP store is a whole helluva lot easier than the player-to-player market.
Rynoceros wrote:Rifle parity before Dropsuit parity?
Two new weapons are easier to roll out and test than a dozen new dropsuits.
Rynoceros wrote:Vehicle/AV balance (attempted) without the full line of vehicles or Pilot suits (if they are still coming)?
Pilot suits would just add another layer to vehicle balancing, something CCP probably doesn't want to have to account for right now. As far as adding more vehicles, why would they release MORE vehicles when the vehicles they have now are not working as intended.
Rynoceros wrote: Restructuring Orbital/Precision/Tactical Strikes, but still using the same 2500 WP as when squads were only 4 players, and fewer ways to gain WP?
... okay yeah, this is stupid. OBs should probably cost another 500 - 750 WPs. Fair enough.
Most of the above is just common sense. If you were a dev, why would/wouldn't you do the things CCP has done. It's in their best interests to make the game balanced and try to keep us happy.
... for some reason they don't like talking to us about what they want to do in the future, but I guess that is their prerogative.
"I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
1559
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Posted - 2013.12.17 14:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
That stuff was easier to code and put in than **** they've been supposedly working on for a year or more?
Sure.
I mean, I can believe they'd take the easy route, that's what they've done since day 1.
But this is a sign of mismanaged agendas, timelines, and just plain laziness.
(OBs should be 5000 WP)
Alyssa Milano.
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Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1458
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Posted - 2013.12.17 14:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yes, the FW changes were easier than the market. The market will be fairly tightly linked to the Eve economy eventually, so the initial market design has to take that into account. Things like all of our rifles, grenades and dropsuits existing in a specific station somewhere in highsec. How do we trade if I'm in Perimeter and you're in Rens? There's things like that going on that are somewhat hidden from us at the moment, though you can notice them if you look closely enough.
They also haven't been working on the market for a year, it's been on the backlog. What they've been working on is content and core mechanics. When they talked about the introduction of LP stores they told us that the FW changes would be ready before the market was, and that the market would come shortly after. It was the right call, FW is more fun than ever (despite the terrible metagame mechanics that give one side all the territory and the other side all the newberries). Completing the FW changes and then sitting on it until the market was ready would have been bad, we'd have been stuck playing the same old game mode for another month.
Need isk? Run pubs, which are identical to the FW mode that was just replaced. |
Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
222
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Posted - 2013.12.17 14:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:I mean, I can believe they'd take the easy route, that's what they've done since day 1.
You are adorable if you think developing a game is easy. You might be able to point out some shortsightedness on CCP's part, but some of that can be blamed on not knowing the FPS market.
Rynoceros wrote:But this is a sign of mismanaged agendas, timelines, and just plain laziness.
Either you are trolling (which is looking more and more likely) or you have no idea what goes into developing a game.
Rynoceros wrote:OBs should be 5000 WP
Why would you double the cost of an OB when they just increased the squad size by 50%? That is a huge jump in WP cost. You start with a small change then look at the effects of that change over the course of 1 - 3 months. If the change wasn't enough, you make another small change. That's how balancing works.
"I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
1565
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Posted - 2013.12.17 14:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
I didn't say it was easy, I said that these lazy pricks often take the easier route to come to a fairly compromised end.
I know that productive work doesn't usually involve booze in the office on a regular basis, fanboi.
And, not only did add 50% more players to squads, they have added several new ways to gain WP.
But, if you enjoy and support this type of nonsense, have at it.
All of the real players will be on Destiny soon enough and the rest of you can wallow in this filth.
Alyssa Milano.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
11304
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Posted - 2013.12.17 14:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
If you can magically solve how Me selling Item X in station A magically appears in Station B where buyer Z in eve then we'd have market already... well that and UI work for console, eve market is something not for the faint of heart of a pure ds3 controller.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
223
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Posted - 2013.12.17 15:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:I didn't say it was easy, I said that these lazy pricks often take the easier route to come to a fairly compromised end.
I know that productive work doesn't usually involve booze in the office on a regular basis, fanboi.
Dust is a flawed game with some huge pieces missing and I'm not blind to that. I also know that CCP's way of doing things is slow and steady, always slow and steady. Make updates, monitor data that results from the updates, add new content, monitor data that results from the new content, make update... etc. etc. etc.
They won't be rushed for you, or me, or anyone else. You either deal with it or leave. If you leave then I have an interesting high-risk, high-reward investment opportunity for your ISK while you are gone. I'd love to talk to you about.
Rynoceros wrote:And, not only did add 50% more players to squads, they have added several new ways to gain WP.
True. So we start with another 3000 WP OB's then see how OB's perform for a while. Knee-jerk reactions like "OB's are bad so double the cost of them" lead to all kinds of problems down the road. That is not the right way to balance things.
Rynoceros wrote:But, if you enjoy and support this type of nonsense, have at it.
All of the real players will be on Destiny soon enough and the rest of you can wallow in this filth.
Destiny does have functional PvE and that is a HUGE draw for players, including myself. If Dust doesn't have PvE by the time Destiny releases and I have a PS4 (Q4 2014) then I will probably leave Dust behind. Honestly, I think we will have PvE by then, but I like having a contingency plan.
"I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
1566
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Posted - 2013.12.17 15:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:If you can magically solve how Me selling Item X in station A magically appears in Station B where buyer Z in eve then we'd have market already... well that and UI work for console, eve market is something not for the faint of heart of a pure ds3 controller.
Why does the Market have to be completely tied to Eve for us to even begin to use it?
Why not a Dust-only Market, with inventory sales and trading, with the Eve stuff coming in as a 3rd party retailer when they get it figured out?
Instead, they just said "Meh, **** it altogether."?
Alyssa Milano.
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
939
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Posted - 2013.12.17 15:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:If you can magically solve how Me selling Item X in station A magically appears in Station B where buyer Z in eve then we'd have market already...
Because this is clearly much more lore breaking than Me magically teleporting half way across the known galaxy to participate in a 10 minute mini-war being led by a giant warbarge that also magically teleported over the target planet. 
!
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
223
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Posted - 2013.12.17 15:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Why does the Market have to be completely tied to Eve for us to even begin to use it?
One of Dust's draws is it's integration with Eve Online. CCP is banking on people getting interested in an FPS that is persistent and involves existing MMO universe filled with intrigue, greed, and rivalries. Creating a Dust market inside a bubble is pretty much nullifying the Eve + Dust link.
Rynoceros wrote:Why not a Dust-only Market, with inventory sales and trading, with the Eve stuff coming in as a 3rd party retailer when they get it figured out?
If I was CCP I wouldn't double my work unless I had to. Why create a Dust-only marketplace only to turn around a matter of months later to break it down and integrate it with Eve Online? Work smart, not hard.
"I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
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Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1458
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Posted - 2013.12.17 15:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Teleporting isn't really lore breaking. Capsuleers do it all the time, it's called clone jumping. You request a medical clone (respawn point) be set up at your destination and commit suicide. This is why the voice on the barge asks us to not commit suicide in public areas.
As for why the market has to be tied to Eve to begin to use it? Everything we own is already tied to Eve, and the market has to work with that. They could come up with some utterly terrible hack to get around it, but then they have to rip it all out and rebuild from scratch when the economic integration starts. That's a recipe for disaster. |
Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
1566
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 15:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Rynoceros wrote:Why does the Market have to be completely tied to Eve for us to even begin to use it? One of Dust's draws is it's integration with Eve Online. CCP is banking on people getting interested in an FPS that is persistent and involves existing MMO universe filled with intrigue, greed, and rivalries. Creating a Dust market inside a bubble is pretty much nullifying the Eve + Dust link. Rynoceros wrote:Why not a Dust-only Market, with inventory sales and trading, with the Eve stuff coming in as a 3rd party retailer when they get it figured out? If I was CCP I wouldn't double my work unless I had to. Why create a Dust-only marketplace only to turn around a matter of months later to break it down and integrate it with Eve Online? Work smart, not hard.
You're talking as if I just got here.
They have delayed the Eve/Dust integration several times in several aspects of the game.
At this point, the integration is nearly nonexistent.
Why not have that P2P market ready to sell back LP items, beforehand?
Because they just wanted to push something out to try to appease an increasingly disenfranchised, hostile player base instead of focusing on the basics - and have thrown out another failure.
Alyssa Milano.
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Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1458
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Posted - 2013.12.17 15:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
"Why not have that P2P market ready to sell back LP items, beforehand?"
Because there are only 24 hours in a day, and developers need to sleep once in a while. |
Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
1566
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 15:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:"Why not have that P2P market ready to sell back LP items, beforehand?"
Because there are only 24 hours in a day, and developers need to sleep once in a while.
If they had started working on it way back when they said they were (open beta) this wouldn't be an issue.
Alyssa Milano.
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
224
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Posted - 2013.12.17 15:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:They have delayed the Eve/Dust integration several times in several aspects of the game. At this point, the integration is nearly nonexistent.
He says after 1.7 rolled out with an improved FW that shows Dust players how systems are being lost/gained in FW in Eve... the link is forming, but no it isn't happening overnight. It will start with FW and spread to other areas of Dust as each iteration is tested and verified as working.
Also, what areas of Dust/Eve integration have been delayed exactly? I know we haven't seen much integration yet, but I haven't seen any integration pushed back either.
Rynoceros wrote:Why not have that P2P market ready to sell back LP items, beforehand?
Because that would in itself create an imbalance. People could then farm whatever the FotM weapon or dropsuit is then sell it for ludicrous amounts of money. The ISK would flow into the hands of whomever could win the most FW battles with that faction. There aren't enough ISK sinks in Dust to allow such a thing to happen.
Rynoceros wrote:Because they just wanted to push something out to try to appease an increasingly disenfranchised, hostile player base instead of focusing on the basics - and have thrown out another failure.
 What are we talking about here? A tyrannical government neglecting it's citizens? Or a F2P FPS set in the future with laser guns and magic needles that bring you back to life? Seriously... it's just game why you have to be mad
"I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
11304
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Posted - 2013.12.17 15:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:If you can magically solve how Me selling Item X in station A magically appears in Station B where buyer Z in eve then we'd have market already... well that and UI work for console, eve market is something not for the faint of heart of a pure ds3 controller. Why does the Market have to be completely tied to Eve for us to even begin to use it? Why not a Dust-only Market, with inventory sales and trading, with the Eve stuff coming in as a 3rd party retailer when they get it figured out? Instead, they just said "Meh, **** it altogether."?
Eve is a very picky system, whole reason why arena where virtual losses cannot occur either inside eve online. Locations are real as are the items in each star system's inventories.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
1568
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 15:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Also, what areas of Dust/Eve integration have been delayed exactly? I know we haven't seen much integration yet, but I haven't seen any integration pushed back either.
Ever heard of Planetary Conquest?
Alyssa Milano.
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Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1459
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 15:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Kristoff Atruin wrote:"Why not have that P2P market ready to sell back LP items, beforehand?"
Because there are only 24 hours in a day, and developers need to sleep once in a while. If they had started working on it way back when they said they were (open beta) this wouldn't be an issue.
And then we wouldn't have properly working hit detection, eve driven orbitals or a lot of the other changes we've gotten between 1.0 and 1.7. Things have to be prioritized, and if you recall Dust was in a very bad state 7 months ago. |
Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
225
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 15:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Ever heard of Planetary Conquest?
Isn't it currently in Dust? Acquiring a district in Dust provides bonuses to the alliance that the Dust corp is in, in Eve Online. I'm not sure what you are getting at... PC is happening right now. Districts are being attacked and defended, Eve Online are being coordinated to provide war barge strikes, etc.
Was something promised in PC, release date for this feature was announced, then it was pushed back/canceled? If so, please let me what feature.
"I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
1569
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Posted - 2013.12.17 15:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Eve is a very picky system, whole reason why arena where virtual losses cannot occur either inside eve online. Locations are real as are the items in each star system's inventories.
We're not talking Eve. We're talking about Dust and market inclusive only to Dust.
Alyssa Milano.
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
1569
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Posted - 2013.12.17 15:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Rynoceros wrote:Ever heard of Planetary Conquest? Isn't it currently in Dust? Acquiring a district in Dust provides bonuses to the alliance that the Dust corp is in, in Eve Online. I'm not sure what you are getting at... PC is happening right now. Districts are being attacked and defended, Eve Online are being coordinated to provide war barge strikes, etc. Was something promised in PC, release date for this feature was announced, then it was pushed back/canceled? If so, please let me what feature.
What happens in Molden Heath, stays in Molden Heath.
I'm done nitpicking this with you. (Actually, I'm just busy - I may rejoin this later)
They failed.
Repeatedly.
Watch the player count over the next month and then tell me I'm wrong, again.
Alyssa Milano.
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
226
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Posted - 2013.12.17 15:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:I'm done nitpicking this with you. (Actually, I'm just busy - I may rejoin this later)
This is all well and good, but let's talk about your ISK. It's clear you plan on leaving Dust in the near future. During which time your ISK will not be put to use. I have an investment strategy that could double, or even triple, your ISK while you are away. It's important that you act now.
"I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
1569
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Posted - 2013.12.17 15:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Rynoceros wrote:I'm done nitpicking this with you. (Actually, I'm just busy - I may rejoin this later) This is all well and good, but let's talk about your ISK. It's clear you plan on leaving Dust in the near future. During which time your ISK will not be put to use. I have an investment strategy that could double, or even triple, your ISK while you are away. It's important that you act now.
All ISK remaining at time of Biomass will be awarded to my favorite in-game allies.
Thanks, for the totally legit offer though.
Alyssa Milano.
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
226
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 16:00:00 -
[25] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:All ISK remaining at time of Biomass will be awarded to my favorite in-game allies.
Thanks, for the totally legit offer though.
But why put them through this absolute HORROR of a game?! I mean, PC isn't in game yet. Faction warfare hasn't been updated in ages. We haven't even gotten new weapons for two weeks.
No no, I think it's best you left the ISK in the hands of a skilled investment broker.
"I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
11305
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Posted - 2013.12.17 16:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Eve is a very picky system, whole reason why arena where virtual losses cannot occur either inside eve online. Locations are real as are the items in each star system's inventories. We're not talking Eve. We're talking about Dust and market inclusive only to Dust.
That's sort of impossible. Dust 514 is technically an eve online client.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
243
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Posted - 2013.12.17 16:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:If you can magically solve how Me selling Item X in station A magically appears in Station B where buyer Z in eve then we'd have market already... well that and UI work for console, eve market is something not for the faint of heart of a pure ds3 controller.
There are MANY ways to do it and if this is really the only stupid thing that is holding it up, the both the CPM and CCP have utterly failed! Here, let me make some up on the fly right now as I type:
1 - Make it so that only specific stations in EVE (the ones linked to starting systems for DUST players since DUST players have ALWAYS started in their quarters with a LOCAL CHAT that they have no clue WTF is it for...) can sell the DUST items to and from DUST/EVE. Only in those locations will the markets DIRECTLY connect. Then have everyone in DUST able to use those markets based upon the local they are in. EVE players can then buy/sell/trade DUST items anywhere, but only sell them to DUST players in those DUST Market Hubs. Dust players will also need a way to "equalize" these markets when they can (ie, 2 guys in same squad but different local markets, one has ARs for sale, but other is out of stock on the market) by being allowed to directly TRADE dust only items with each other within dust. This would also encourage EVE pilots to actually travel to DUST territories.
2 - This probably won't happen as it'll drag down and cause too much lag to do... While in EVE every station and region is separated into different market locations. In DUST just combine them all (for DUST only items) and let the DUST players order from anywhere as if they were everywhere. Building the list of market items for this method would be the lynchpin and probably lag too much.
3 - Let DUST players see the regional market just like every EVE player does complete with number of systems that the equipment may be in distance from their current home system. If they buy something off market that is in their current station, then they get it immediately. If they buy something off market in the same solar system, then they get it in like 30 seconds. If they buy something off market that is 1 or more jumps in distance from them, then it they don't get it for 2 minutes per jump in distance. So if you buy a tank that is 10 jumps away, it won't show up in your equipment for 20 minutes. Again, a way for DUST players to trade amongst themselves would be beneficial and may also be delayed by the 2 minutes/jump factor if needed. (NOTE: Don't forget that a player could order a bunch of **** that is many minutes away and then log off or loose connection. Still have this **** delivered even if they are offline.)
4 - If you must have EVE players doing the deliveries, then work it out in two ways. First, start adding in NPC agent courier missions that tell the EVE players to buy "a" off market (or trade for it or get it anywhere even if they make it themselves) and deliver it to "y' location. Then for every successful mission of this type, the EVE pilot makes some ISK, gets standing points for his NPC corp, and the DUST items are automatically posted on the local market by the NPC for the DUST players to buy. Second way is to let EVE players have a "MARKET NEEDS" selection option in the map. This would highlight all stations in EVE that needed DUST items delivered to them. Then it would be up to the EVE players to decide upon how to supply that demand and at what price etc.
5 - Create a new "sub-market" called PLANETARY SALES or something like that for the EVE players. it would be a new market tab that the EVE players can go to in EVE. This new market would not be separated by location like everything else it. Instead an EVE player puts something up for sale on the Planetary Market and it becomes available to anyone in DUST as well as anyone in EVE that is also viewing the same market. Similarly for DUST players selling stuff, it would show up on the Planetary Market for other Dust and EVE players to buy. The only issue with this method is that some scheming EVE players somewhere would figure out that they could "transport" raw materials from point A to point B (across the universe) by making tanks in DUST and selling them to an all via the Planetary Market. So this would have negative effects to EVE unless reprocessing of DUST items is made to be unprofitable.
6 - Create a "travel" system for the DUST players to be able to travel to where the items are at. This could either be provided by an NPC corp like InterBus or by EVE players or both. The way it would work is a DUST player needs items from another market location. So they hire InterBus to transport them there. This would have to be time-limited in some way like only allow it once every hour. This would mean that if a DUST merc needed something from Jita, then they travel there and buy it, then they would have to wait to travel back to to the next market hub where they would need to buy/sell something. Making it an hour to do so, still puts the advantage to the EVE players to fulfill the market. Another way to travel would be via CONTRACT. A DUST player creates a MOVE ME contract in DUST which turns into a kinda of small package contract in EVE. The EVE pilot has no way to know who or what he's transporting. It's up to the DUST player to put a value on his transport (higher ISK would probably get fulfilled faster etc.) Then the contract is submitted to the system. DUST player can log off or stay online and chat (but unable to start matches). Once the EVE pilot completes the transport, he gets paid and DUST merc is now in new location. If transport contract timer runs out, then DUST guy never gets moved, but doesn't loose any ISK either. If move contract is accepted and fails, then DUST merc gets the collateral paid by the EVE pilot for accepting the contract and failing.
(to be continued on next message)
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
243
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 16:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
(continued from previous posting above)
In any case, if a locationally based system is used, then there should also be a way to transport mercs to those locations. This bring about the problem that the DUST mercs will try to "congregate" at popular market hubs like Jita. But to counter that, only allow them to accept contracts from DUST hubs like the home systems that they are in currently. This way they only "go to market" to buy and sell and have to return to low-sec space to fight. |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
1610
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Posted - 2013.12.17 16:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:I'm just wondering if someone at CCP has been looking at the list of priorities upside down.
LP Store before P2P Market?
Rifle parity before Dropsuit parity?
Vehicle/AV balance (attempted) without the full line of vehicles or Pilot suits (if they are still coming) ?
Restructuring Orbital/Precision/Tactical Strikes, but still using the same 2500 WP as when squads were only 4 players, and fewer ways to gain WP?
Is there any form of management there or do you guys just implement whatever you want, whenever you want without any rhyme or reason?
I would really like to know the reasoning there.
Make it make sense to me/us.
CCP= Cant Comprehend Prioritization
CCp's newest joke, making setting off your own remote explosives in FW FF... awesome job ccp.
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Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1459
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Posted - 2013.12.17 16:44:00 -
[30] - Quote
There's a lot of non-trivial components to that solution, which is why we don't have it yet. |
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Obodiah Garro
Tech Guard
RISE of LEGION
481
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Posted - 2013.12.17 16:51:00 -
[31] - Quote
The novelty of Eve involvement wore off around the same time Dust got its official *release*. There is no eve integration with the exception of extremely poor orbital strikes. Nothing.
No PVE is a reason this game is a write off to begin with, there is no market which is pretty terrible, there is lacklustre introduction to the eve universe through the Dust experience which is damn appalling.
New players are introduced to this game chiefly through the use of free to play id imagine, as a player of eve for over 10 years now i can only shake my head at how impossible it is for a new player to link these 2 games together.
The academy is a joke, we all know this, CCP should at least give some flush introduction videos about what the 4 playable races are all about and then put them in a suitable racial academy until they earn like 5m SP, might stop the current iteration of FW being a total cluster fail.
Just SMDH. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2555
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Posted - 2013.12.17 16:52:00 -
[32] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:If you can magically solve how Me selling Item X in station A magically appears in Station B where buyer Z in eve then we'd have market already... well that and UI work for console, eve market is something not for the faint of heart of a pure ds3 controller.
I can explain that quite simply:
Everything we own is digital.
We clone jump to a battle half the galaxy away and produce our weapons and modules out of nanites based on our digital ownership (BPO or BPC). Our gear doesn't magically appear on planet from some central depot.
So a player market is simply a digital market place. I put up a BPC for sale and you buy it. You wire me your ISK and I wire you my BPC. Simple. |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
941
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 16:58:00 -
[33] - Quote
How about this explanation for P2P market.
Every station comes with a supply of every possible Dust item. When an Eve pilot manufactures a Dust item, the item is added to the station's pool and the Eve pilot receives a credit that represents that item. A Dust merc can then buy this credit from the Eve pilot and retrieve the Dust item when he/she requires it either from their local station or the warbarge.
This would move the Dust"market to the virtual world and would allow it to be accessed anywhere.
Why?
Because this is how the system must work already. If we are indeed clone jumping to warbarges when we participate in matches, the warbarge must be stocked with a large supply of equipment since we are able to access our entire inventory of items while on the battlefield. It's not like we are able to bring everything we own with us when we transfer our consciousness.
Edit:
Ninja'd
!
|
Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1250
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 17:07:00 -
[34] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Eve is a very picky system, whole reason why arena where virtual losses cannot occur either inside eve online. Locations are real as are the items in each star system's inventories. We're not talking Eve. We're talking about Dust and market inclusive only to Dust.
Yes but dust Items are already implemented into the EvE code, you can't build the Dust Market without adding it to the EvE market, mthere are too many complications! We probably won't see the player markets until we get an option to leave our quarters!
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
|
Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1250
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 17:17:00 -
[35] - Quote
Obodiah Garro wrote:The novelty of Eve involvement wore off around the same time Dust got its official *release*. There is no eve integration with the exception of extremely poor orbital strikes. Nothing.
No PVE is a reason this game is a write off to begin with, there is no market which is pretty terrible, there is lacklustre introduction to the eve universe through the Dust experience which is damn appalling.
New players are introduced to this game chiefly through the use of free to play id imagine, as a player of eve for over 10 years now i can only shake my head at how impossible it is for a new player to link these 2 games together.
The academy is a joke, we all know this, CCP should at least give some flush introduction videos about what the 4 playable races are all about and then put them in a suitable racial academy until they earn like 5m SP, might stop the current iteration of FW being a total cluster fail.
Just SMDH.
Really we want a full blown tutorial, a narrative of going from Random citizen A into Genetically Modified SuperSoilder A
With all the basics
Moving
Shooting
Grenades
Deployment
Advanced Training
Locomotion (Sliding, Jumping, Vaulting when available)
Equipment Use
Vehicle Use (LAV, MAV, HAV, MAV(dropship))
Orbitals
Squad Orders
All of this happens at the military base where your consciousness is purged, you are given a personal transition officer, who helps you through the training, then you do a series of matches in the academy, only ever coming across people of your race, once you are prepared, as in you earn approximately 500WP per match average you are released upon new eden.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
|
Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1461
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 17:21:00 -
[36] - Quote
They did say that player trading would come "soon" after the FW changes were implemented, which was before we knew they would be in 1.7. So we don't have to wait for walking in stations or anything like that to trade, but it does mean that the back end of the market will not be a trivial thing that you can wave your hands at and say "it's all digital" and consider it resolved. It has to work with the back end systems that are already in place.
It can be done, but it will take more work than people realize. |
Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
246
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 17:24:00 -
[37] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:There's a lot of non-trivial components to that solution, which is why we don't have it yet.
I know it's non-trivial. I also stated that all those possible solutions were ones that I thought up in 5 minutes time. If that's just five minutes, what has CCP been doing for the last few months?
That was my point.
|
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2558
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 17:34:00 -
[38] - Quote
People, you are making a very fundamental error. The DUST market is NOT physical.
It cannot possibly be physical given the logistical constraints we have.
Nothing is physically shipped when we enter a battle half the galaxy away. We must produce it on site. Yes, you could assume a huge cache of every possible weapon, dropsuit, vehicle, and module on the war barge, but how does that get onto the battlefield when I walk out of a CRU or change fits at a SD? Do we wait for an RDV delivery like Wile E Coyote?.
It's far simpler to assume on-site just-in-time manufacturing from a pool of nanites. it's possibly more expensive than mass production in a factory which saves the general EVE market from complete collapse, but as mercenaries we are willing to pay a premium to have instant access to our inventory on the battlefield.
If it's digital it's beyond simple to create a market. |
Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1461
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 17:37:00 -
[39] - Quote
It isn't really digital though, because when we enter a battle on the eve side we're still in the same solar system we've always been in. You can tell by looking at your local channel - it never changes. When we die in battle things are removed from the items in our hangar in the solar system we're in.
Problem is, we're not all in the same solar system. When we trade the items will have to move. This was actually in the patch notes for something like uprising 1.1 or something like that...a long time ago. |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
942
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 17:42:00 -
[40] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Yes, you could assume a huge cache of every possible weapon, dropsuit, vehicle, and module on the war barge, but how does that get onto the battlefield when I walk out of a CRU or change fits at a SD?
I assume the CRUs operate similarly to uplinks. Otherwise, there is no possible explanation for it being able to spew out all the mercs it does over the course of a match.
SD is harder to explain.
However, if we are able to create all of our gear using nanites, manufacturing becomes trivial. What are the Eve pilots going to produce? Nanites? Then how do they get the BPCs for our gear? Exchange a certain amount of nanites for a BPC? Then why bother with BPCs? Why not just sell nanite credits? Replace the entire market system with a nanite market so you only stock up on nanites and pay a nanite price for your gear as you spawn.
!
|
|
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2558
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 17:44:00 -
[41] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:It isn't really digital though, because when we enter a battle on the eve side we're still in the same solar system we've always been in. You can tell by looking at your local channel - it never changes. When we die in battle things are removed from the items in our hangar in the solar system we're in.
Problem is, we're not all in the same solar system. When we trade the items will have to move. This was actually in the patch notes for something like uprising 1.1 or something like that...a long time ago.
You make no sense. How can we always be in the same solar system when we fight in many different solar systems?
Our quarters are in one solar system and we fight in many others. Or are you suggesting that someone is playing a trick on us and it's all the same place but they just change the signs to fool us? |
Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1461
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 17:45:00 -
[42] - Quote
Don't confuse lore explanations for how things work with the real mechanics in the code that actually make things work. |
Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1461
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 17:48:00 -
[43] - Quote
That is exactly what I'm saying. If I fly in Eve to the solar system you're in when you talk in local, I can still see you there when you deploy into a battle. And I can talk to you as if you're still there. We're part of New Eden now but they haven't worked out how we're going to move around without space ships, so they kludged it by making us stay in one system all the time. The battles don't happen on the same server as Eve so it works from a technical perspective.
It's confusing and not the way you would expect it to be, but it gets the job done. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2559
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 17:58:00 -
[44] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:That is exactly what I'm saying. If I fly in Eve to the solar system you're in when you talk in local, I can still see you there when you deploy into a battle. And I can talk to you as if you're still there. We're part of New Eden now but they haven't worked out how we're going to move around without space ships, so they kludged it by making us stay in one system all the time. The battles don't happen on the same server as Eve so it works from a technical perspective.
It's confusing and not the way you would expect it to be, but it gets the job done.
Yes we are in the same place when you fly in because we clone jumped there.
Then when you fly in to the next battle several systems away we are there because we clone jumped.
The thing is we can't take physical gear with us when we jump. |
Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1461
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 18:06:00 -
[45] - Quote
You're not getting it. On Tranquility, the server "we" are on...where we talk and everything...we are always in one location. We affect the battles in other systems but in the MMO side of things, where the economy is at, we never appear there. If I flew to a system you were fighting in I couldn't talk to you because you're not actually there. It's a quick hack to make the Eve / Dust integration work when things are only partially implemented.
Some day we will actually move around in New Eden and Dust will be the MMOFPS it has always meant to be. Until then our bodies in-game are locked into a single station in highsec and never move. There were patch notes ages ago that mentioned our gear now being aware of location, about the time that we merged with the live Eve server...which means our gear is in a physical location in Eve the same way that our characters are.
The server doesn't need to "take gear with you" when you go to a battle right now, it just deducts it from your inventory as needed. The whole thing is a lot more complex than you seem capable of realizing.
I'll repeat - Don't confuse lore explanations for how things work with the real mechanics in the code that actually make things work. |
Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
247
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 18:29:00 -
[46] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:If you can magically solve how Me selling Item X in station A magically appears in Station B where buyer Z in eve then we'd have market already... well that and UI work for console, eve market is something not for the faint of heart of a pure ds3 controller. I can explain that quite simply: Everything we own is digital. We clone jump to a battle half the galaxy away and produce our weapons and modules out of nanites based on our digital ownership (BPO or BPC). Our gear doesn't magically appear on planet from some central depot. So a player market is simply a digital market place. I put up a BPC for sale and you buy it. You wire me your ISK and I wire you my BPC. Simple.
That idea fails when you consider salvage. How do I sell or trade salvage if everything we own is just "digital" when we "travel" in your scheme?
NOPE, gotta have the physical aspect at some point and CCP needs to fully integrate that soonGäó or things will get even more kludgey than they are now.
|
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom
Renegade Alliance
1005
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 18:34:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Rynoceros wrote:LP Store before P2P Market? Updating FW to include an LP store is a whole helluva lot easier than the player-to-player market. Rynoceros wrote:Rifle parity before Dropsuit parity? Two new weapons are easier to roll out and test than a dozen new dropsuits. Rynoceros wrote:Vehicle/AV balance (attempted) without the full line of vehicles or Pilot suits (if they are still coming)? Pilot suits would just add another layer to vehicle balancing, something CCP probably doesn't want to have to account for right now. As far as adding more vehicles, why would they release MORE vehicles when the vehicles they have now are not working as intended. Rynoceros wrote: Restructuring Orbital/Precision/Tactical Strikes, but still using the same 2500 WP as when squads were only 4 players, and fewer ways to gain WP? ... okay yeah, this is stupid. OBs should probably cost another 500 - 750 WPs. Fair enough. Most of the above is just common sense. If you were a dev, why would/wouldn't you do the things CCP has done. It's in their best interests to make the game balanced and try to keep us happy. ... for some reason they don't like talking to us about what they want to do in the future, but I guess that is their prerogative.
in the near(ish) future, according to the last major announcement: put the mmo in mmo fps.
militia 2.0
pc 2.0
unified market.
unified wallets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40zjfBk5vEE start at 18 minutes for the timeline. |
Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
247
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 18:35:00 -
[48] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:Skihids wrote:Yes, you could assume a huge cache of every possible weapon, dropsuit, vehicle, and module on the war barge, but how does that get onto the battlefield when I walk out of a CRU or change fits at a SD? I assume the CRUs operate similarly to uplinks. Otherwise, there is no possible explanation for it being able to spew out all the mercs it does over the course of a match. SD is harder to explain. However, if we are able to create all of our gear using nanites, manufacturing becomes trivial. What are the Eve pilots going to produce? Nanites? Then how do they get the BPCs for our gear? Exchange a certain amount of nanites for a BPC? Then why bother with BPCs? Why not just sell nanite credits? Replace the entire market system with a nanite market so you only stock up on nanites and pay a nanite price for your gear as you spawn.
Wrong on both points. In beta CRU's were these huge box shaped thingy's with doors on them big enough for mercs to walk out of (but never opened). With the current CRU's I'm assuming the devs decided that it could be anything not worry about the size anymore... besides, who knows how deep into the ground those things go.
|
Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
247
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 18:48:00 -
[49] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Kristoff Atruin wrote:That is exactly what I'm saying. If I fly in Eve to the solar system you're in when you talk in local, I can still see you there when you deploy into a battle. And I can talk to you as if you're still there. We're part of New Eden now but they haven't worked out how we're going to move around without space ships, so they kludged it by making us stay in one system all the time. The battles don't happen on the same server as Eve so it works from a technical perspective.
It's confusing and not the way you would expect it to be, but it gets the job done. Yes we are in the same place when you fly in because we clone jumped there. Then when you fly in to the next battle several systems away we are there because we clone jumped. The thing is we can't take physical gear with us when we jump.
You are wrong and Kristoff is right. Currently DUST mercs NEVER ACTUALLY LEAVE their home system as far as the EVE Tranquility Server is concerned. And since that is the host of the EVE Universe, that includes our asses too.
The "Local Chat" is a thing ported over from EVE Online. Think of it like an IRC chat channel that is associated with a room in a house. When you move into the living room, it changes to be everyone that is in the living room. When you leave the living room to go to the kitchen, the local chat logs off the living room and logs onto the kitchen. Similarly for systems in EVE and DUST. However since CCP has yet to implement a way for mercs to travel through space in EVE, we are ALWAYS stuck in the same merc quarters in the same station in the same system.
A way of transit for mercs to go from station to station (with all their possessions) must be implemented. And not including vehicles, a merc with all their stuff can fit into a small cargo container in EVE terms. Hell the most you might need would be a Large Cargo Container if you do have lots of vehicles. In either case, it's somewhat trivial for an EVE pilot that does shipping to transport such things, if they so choose to do so. Which is why an NPC system of transit need to be implemented.
Maybe something based on distance etc. Have an NPC corp like InterBus Shipping do it where it cost X ISk per lightyear of distance times y volume of cargo. Then add in 5 minutes of travel for every lightyear as well. Walla! We now have merc transit. Hell you could cue up the transit, pay for it, log off for however long it takes and then come back to being int the new station.
The only issue would be preventing all the mercs in the universe from congregating in one location. So you make it such that they have to be in low-sec and then in the same region to accept contracts in that region. Then you don't end up with mercs stuck in Jita trying to buy/sell/trade all the damn time. This would also have the added benefit that if your faction in FW is loosing in one region, then you go to another region where they are winning instead, just like in EVE.
|
Mr CreepyPasta
DUST University
Ivy League
39
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 18:49:00 -
[50] - Quote
All of the real players will be on Destiny soon enough and the rest of you can wallow in this filth.[/quote]
^This. I'm a real player sir & I probably wont be getting destiny as it doesn't appeal to me.
IF this game is supposedly filth then explain to me why you are still here?
CAN I HAZ YOUR ISK :D |
|
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2561
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 19:10:00 -
[51] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:Skihids wrote:Yes, you could assume a huge cache of every possible weapon, dropsuit, vehicle, and module on the war barge, but how does that get onto the battlefield when I walk out of a CRU or change fits at a SD? I assume the CRUs operate similarly to uplinks. Otherwise, there is no possible explanation for it being able to spew out all the mercs it does over the course of a match. SD is harder to explain. However, if we are able to create all of our gear using nanites, manufacturing becomes trivial. What are the Eve pilots going to produce? Nanites? Then how do they get the BPCs for our gear? Exchange a certain amount of nanites for a BPC? Then why bother with BPCs? Why not just sell nanite credits? Replace the entire market system with a nanite market so you only stock up on nanites and pay a nanite price for your gear as you spawn.
Who produces the CD's for your music on your MP3 player today? That's right, nobody. There is no physical market for that.
EVE pilots can continue manufacturing stuff for civilians or other pilots, but we simply don't have the luxury of waiting around for delivery when we clone jump across the galaxy and want to swap out fits at a SD.
DUST mercs use more advanced technology than previously existed in New Eden. Pod Pilots can't clone jump from their quarters, they need to be in a pod. We couldn't rely upon that outdated technology on the battlefield. Likewise we can't rely upon old fashioned manufacturing and delivery chains. it simply doesn't work with our logistical requirements.
Pod Pilots and their methods are old tech. |
Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
1577
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 19:12:00 -
[52] - Quote
Mr CreepyPasta wrote:All of the real players will be on Destiny soon enough and the rest of you can wallow in this filth.
^This. I'm a real player sir & I probably wont be getting destiny as it doesn't appeal to me.
IF this game is supposedly filth then explain to me why you are still here?
CAN I HAZ YOUR ISK :D [/quote]
I'm here because of the "possibilities" presented early on, that have yet to be seen.
I remain here because nothing else is worth buying at the moment.
Soon-¬-«Gäó...
Alyssa Milano.
|
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2561
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 19:13:00 -
[53] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:You're not getting it. On Tranquility, the server "we" are on...where we talk and everything...we are always in one location. We affect the battles in other systems but in the MMO side of things, where the economy is at, we never appear there. If I flew to a system you were fighting in I couldn't talk to you because you're not actually there. It's a quick hack to make the Eve / Dust integration work when things are only partially implemented.
Some day we will actually move around in New Eden and Dust will be the MMOFPS it has always meant to be. Until then our bodies in-game are locked into a single station in highsec and never move. There were patch notes ages ago that mentioned our gear now being aware of location, about the time that we merged with the live Eve server...which means our gear is in a physical location in Eve the same way that our characters are.
The server doesn't need to "take gear with you" when you go to a battle right now, it just deducts it from your inventory as needed. The whole thing is a lot more complex than you seem capable of realizing.
I'll repeat - Don't confuse lore explanations for how things work with the real mechanics in the code that actually make things work.
That's just a broken code mechanic. Don't confuse a code hack for logic.
Just because we "stay" on the same server doesn't mean we stay in the same place in the game universe. If the game tells me that I'm half the galaxy away fighting in system "Fred", then I'm fighting in Fred. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2561
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 19:18:00 -
[54] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:Skihids wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:If you can magically solve how Me selling Item X in station A magically appears in Station B where buyer Z in eve then we'd have market already... well that and UI work for console, eve market is something not for the faint of heart of a pure ds3 controller. I can explain that quite simply: Everything we own is digital. We clone jump to a battle half the galaxy away and produce our weapons and modules out of nanites based on our digital ownership (BPO or BPC). Our gear doesn't magically appear on planet from some central depot. So a player market is simply a digital market place. I put up a BPC for sale and you buy it. You wire me your ISK and I wire you my BPC. Simple. That idea fails when you consider salvage. How do I sell or trade salvage if everything we own is just "digital" when we "travel" in your scheme? NOPE, gotta have the physical aspect at some point and CCP needs to fully integrate that soonGäó or things will get even more kludgey than they are now.
Salvage is easy to explain:
It works the very same way it works when you swap a fit at a Supply Depot.
The depot deconstructs the object and credits you one digital copy. Done. |
Your Absolut End
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
315
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 19:21:00 -
[55] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Rynoceros wrote:LP Store before P2P Market? Updating FW to include an LP store is a whole helluva lot easier than the player-to-player market. Rynoceros wrote:Rifle parity before Dropsuit parity? Two new weapons are easier to roll out and test than a dozen new dropsuits. Rynoceros wrote:Vehicle/AV balance (attempted) without the full line of vehicles or Pilot suits (if they are still coming)? Pilot suits would just add another layer to vehicle balancing, something CCP probably doesn't want to have to account for right now. As far as adding more vehicles, why would they release MORE vehicles when the vehicles they have now are not working as intended. Rynoceros wrote: Restructuring Orbital/Precision/Tactical Strikes, but still using the same 2500 WP as when squads were only 4 players, and fewer ways to gain WP? ... okay yeah, this is stupid. OBs should probably cost another 500 - 750 WPs. Fair enough. Most of the above is just common sense. If you were a dev, why would/wouldn't you do the things CCP has done. It's in their best interests to make the game balanced and try to keep us happy. ... for some reason they don't like talking to us about what they want to do in the future, but I guess that is their prerogative.
thats just because they laugh at us and say get good scrub in their heads to every post we do
another one bites the Dust...
Born as Kameira, die as Kameira, my life for the Empress!
|
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
9034
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 19:21:00 -
[56] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:If you can magically solve how Me selling Item X in station A magically appears in Station B where buyer Z in eve then we'd have market already... well that and UI work for console, eve market is something not for the faint of heart of a pure ds3 controller.
Everyone talks about the EVE to DUST market as if anyone in DUST has anything to sell anyone in EVE, and as if anyone in EVE would bother selling anything to anyone in DUST for prices that would be affordable for anyone in DUST
Basically, it's a pipe dream that's very very far off because it has no purpose.
We just need to be able to sell stuff to each other, and forget about EVE pilots.
Vids / O7
|
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2561
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 19:29:00 -
[57] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:If you can magically solve how Me selling Item X in station A magically appears in Station B where buyer Z in eve then we'd have market already... well that and UI work for console, eve market is something not for the faint of heart of a pure ds3 controller. Everyone talks about the EVE to DUST market as if anyone in DUST has anything to sell anyone in EVE, and as if anyone in EVE would bother selling anything to anyone in DUST for prices that would be affordable for anyone in DUST Basically, it's a pipe dream that's very very far off because it has no purpose. We just need to be able to sell stuff to each other, and forget about EVE pilots.
CCP claimed they want DUST to be an ISK sink for EVE.
So force them to hire us for ISK and don't bother letting them make money off us. That's counter to the stated mission. |
Aero Yassavi
Scions of Athra
4166
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 19:38:00 -
[58] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:I'm just wondering if someone at CCP has been looking at the list of priorities upside down.
LP Store before P2P Market?
Rifle parity before Dropsuit parity?
Vehicle/AV balance (attempted) without the full line of vehicles or Pilot suits (if they are still coming) ?
Restructuring Orbital/Precision/Tactical Strikes, but still using the same 2500 WP as when squads were only 4 players, and fewer ways to gain WP?
Is there any form of management there or do you guys just implement whatever you want, whenever you want without any rhyme or reason?
I would really like to know the reasoning there.
Make it make sense to me/us.
Welcome to CCP, the developers where everything's made up and logic doesn't matter.
Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor
|
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2561
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 19:38:00 -
[59] - Quote
Setting up a DUST P2P market shouldn't be that complicated.
It's digital, so it's a single market location with no physical storage or shipping. So write it as a single station if you want to reuse code.
You can create buy and sell orders for BPC licenses. Got 30 FGs you can't use? Put them up with a price.
Want a few Freedom MDs? Put in a buy order with a maximum price per copy.
The system matches buyer and seller and make the account changes. |
Aero Yassavi
Scions of Athra
4166
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 19:44:00 -
[60] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:Teleporting isn't really lore breaking. Capsuleers do it all the time, it's called clone jumping. You request a medical clone (respawn point) be set up at your destination and commit suicide. This is why the voice on the barge asks us to not commit suicide in public areas.
As for why the market has to be tied to Eve to begin to use it? Everything we own is already tied to Eve, and the market has to work with that. They could come up with some utterly terrible hack to get around it, but then they have to rip it all out and rebuild from scratch when the economic integration starts. That's a recipe for disaster.
So tell me, do your assets also commit suicide and teleport to a medical clone? I've never heard of an assault rifle committing suicide before.
If the reason is "it makes no sense to magically teleport your assets between stations" then how do our assets get across all of New Eden instantly every time we queue up?
Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor
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Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1472
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 19:49:00 -
[61] - Quote
They don't teleport when we queue up, that's what you're not getting. We're never actually IN the systems we fight in. So why would our assets need to teleport there? Clone jumping is only a lore explanation for how we're getting to battles, the reality is we never actually move anywhere. Yet...some day we will.
It'd be simple to implement this all if we were all in the same station, then the buy and sell orders (which are tied to a location btw) would work without any fiddling around with moving stuff. Everything has a location in New Eden. Your character, your assets, your market orders. If you set a buy order in your station, as it stands you could only trade with the people in your station. |
crazy space 1
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
2106
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Posted - 2013.12.17 19:52:00 -
[62] - Quote
They just do whatever
PVE was confirmed for 2012 in November of 2012... |
Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
1580
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 19:58:00 -
[63] - Quote
Obodiah Garro wrote:The novelty of Eve involvement wore off around the same time Dust got its official *release*. There is no eve integration with the exception of extremely poor orbital strikes. Nothing.
No PVE is a reason this game is a write off to begin with, there is no market which is pretty terrible, there is lacklustre introduction to the eve universe through the Dust experience which is damn appalling.
New players are introduced to this game chiefly through the use of free to play id imagine, as a player of eve for over 10 years now i can only shake my head at how impossible it is for a new player to link these 2 games together.
The academy is a joke, we all know this, CCP should at least give some flush introduction videos about what the 4 playable races are all about and then put them in a suitable racial academy until they earn like 5m SP, might stop the current iteration of FW being a total cluster fail.
Just SMDH.
Alyssa Milano.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
11313
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 00:03:00 -
[64] - Quote
Well CPM has been pushing for it ever patch none the less. Just things takes time and overfocus on one of dozens of things this game needs is a waste of time.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
1588
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 02:48:00 -
[65] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Well CPM has been pushing for it ever patch none the less. Just things takes time and overfocus on one of dozens of things this game needs is a waste of time.
Who knows?
It could work.
Alyssa Milano.
|
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
Public Disorder.
1372
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 14:54:00 -
[66] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Obodiah Garro wrote:The novelty of Eve involvement wore off around the same time Dust got its official *release*. There is no eve integration with the exception of extremely poor orbital strikes. Nothing.
No PVE is a reason this game is a write off to begin with, there is no market which is pretty terrible, there is lacklustre introduction to the eve universe through the Dust experience which is damn appalling.
New players are introduced to this game chiefly through the use of free to play id imagine, as a player of eve for over 10 years now i can only shake my head at how impossible it is for a new player to link these 2 games together.
The academy is a joke, we all know this, CCP should at least give some flush introduction videos about what the 4 playable races are all about and then put them in a suitable racial academy until they earn like 5m SP, might stop the current iteration of FW being a total cluster fail.
Just SMDH.
Just a reminder that we're not playing DUST yet. This is still the core mechanics/core content/gamemode testing/balancing/EVE integration phase. This will continue into the new year with emphasis shifting to integration and market(here's to hoping CCP dosen't forget that they live and die by core FPS mechanics).
Almost none of the possibilities of the gameplay that DUST promised have been realized yet, but that is exactly what Team True Grit are doing atm - exploring/pioneering virtual universe gameplay with a scope and on a scale that has not existed in gaming before now. And we kickass clone mthrfkers are the 'volunteers' Foxfour and Nullabor are throwing into the void so a few of us can limp, stagger and drag our broken asses back to report on 'conditions at the front'. After these reports they retire to the drawing room with Lekjart to sip brandy, smoke cigars, nibble on rotten shark and converse on the reports from the wrecked and twisted bastards who made it back alive. But knowing that for every one who came back ten thousand have fallen.
I'm hoping you're enjoying your brandy and cigars gentlemen, because nothing can buy back your souls ;)
I support SP rollover.
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