DUST Search - Cloaks for scouts only.

Needless Sacermendor wrote:

Django Quik wrote:

Needless Sacermendor wrote:

You all seem to be forgetting that cloaks in Eve are high power slots ... the equivalent of DUSTs weapon slots.
Who's to say it won't (or shouldn't) be a light weapon slot module !?

CCP has repeatedly referred to cloaks as equipment.

Well it's clearly not a weapon is it !?

CCP has also never said which slot they would fit in ... as you've said, they've simply referred to them as equipment.

Do you not think they would be so much easier to balance if they were a light weapon slot ? ... Just imagine scouts running round with shotguns and cloaks ... imagine snipers with cloaks ... imagine ANY light weapon running round the battlefield INVISIBLE, until they decide to pull out a weapon and shoot you in the back of the head.

Now think about what the cloak SHOULD be for ... infiltration ! running behind enemy lines to place drop uplinks to spawn surprise attacks, or relaying intel with scanners, or dropping remote explosives and laying in wait.

They'd also be more cpu/pg balanceable since light weapons take up lots of cpu, so the cloak could be 100-120 cpu or somewhere round there such that scouts with their '20% cpu reduction to cloaks' can fit them with ease yet other suits could also gimp their slaying abilities to fit them but would also gimp their other fitting options.

Obviously the numbers need working on but the principle is the best way I can see to balance them without letting them be abused ... you'd still have you sidearm (unless you were a logi !)

Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1873	Posted - 2013.12.16 19:14:00 - [31] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Someone had to say it: cloaks should be scout only, for fucks sake we can't have one bloody thing to ourselves? Mark my words that this module will be abused heavily by non scout players, just watch it happen. Cloaking devices will have incredibly high PG and CPU requirements. Scout suits will have bonuses to reduce the PG and CPU requirements of fitting a cloaking device. Putting a Cloaking device on any other suit will require them leaving most of their other slots empty and putting CPU and PG upgrades in the lows. This is what the Devs have said.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 3209	Posted - 2013.12.16 19:15:00 - [32] - Quote Atiim wrote: Yeah sure. Right after you make Nanohives, Nanite Injectors, Repair Tools, and Drop Uplinks restricted to Logistics only. I mean these tools were meant for logis right? Wouldn't be so much of a problem if more than 5% of logis actually did their jobs Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 3 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1938	Posted - 2013.12.16 19:21:00 - [33] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Django Quik wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: Django Quik wrote: Would love to see a logi with all it's lows filled with CPU mods just so he can fit a STD cloak! He'd be slow and really shimmery and picked up by all scans and probably even passive scans and wouldn't be able to fit any tanking or damage mods or more than a STD weapon. That sounds awesome! But when he drops the RE and it goes boom and you go, "WTF!" he will laugh. That would be a good use for such a suit but with the fittings costs done right, he'd not be able to carry very good or very many REs. Yeah, i'm curious, like I said in my post, that if it is an equipment slot item, then they should give scouts an extra equipment slot you would think. Actually thinking about it, you would have to decloak to be able to select the REs because they're both equipment, so you'd have trouble getting away with stealth planting. Needless Sacermendor wrote: You all seem to be forgetting that cloaks in Eve are high power slots ... the equivalent of DUSTs weapon slots. Who's to say it won't (or shouldn't) be a light weapon slot module !? CCP has repeatedly referred to cloaks as equipment. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2166	Posted - 2013.12.16 19:22:00 - [34] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Atiim wrote: Yeah sure. Right after you make Nanohives, Nanite Injectors, Repair Tools, and Drop Uplinks restricted to Logistics only. I mean these tools were meant for logis right? Wouldn't be so much of a problem if more than 5% of logis actually did their jobs Oh god, please don't start this one again. The Logistics class is designed to be a highly versatile role capable of doing things from assaulting enemy positions, to medics on the battlefield. The Logistics job is to be a Combat medic. They aren't your PEZ Dispenser, nor your slave, nor your "Stay in the back and rep me so my K/D stay's high" role. The suits I wear are MINE. And as such I can, should, and will use MY suits for whatever I damn well please. DUST 514 just went full COD. Never go full COD.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1938	Posted - 2013.12.16 19:25:00 - [35] - Quote Atiim wrote: Yeah sure. Right after you make Nanohives, Nanite Injectors, Repair Tools, and Drop Uplinks restricted to Logistics only. I mean these tools were meant for logis right? Logis are going to be getting equipment fittings bonuses too, so effectively this will be happening. Other classes will be able to run cloaks, reppers, scanners or whatever but the specialists (whether scout cloaks or logi hives/etc.) are the only ones who'll be able to run them actually effectively. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1938	Posted - 2013.12.16 19:27:00 - [36] - Quote Like I said earlier in this thread, I fully expect each class to get fittings reductions to specific things, so only assaults will be able to run the best weapons and damage mods, heavies the best tanking set ups, scouts the best mobility stealth gear and logis the best equipment. There will be better more defined specialisations when this all happens. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 3212	Posted - 2013.12.16 19:43:00 - [37] - Quote Atiim wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Atiim wrote: Yeah sure. Right after you make Nanohives, Nanite Injectors, Repair Tools, and Drop Uplinks restricted to Logistics only. I mean these tools were meant for logis right? Wouldn't be so much of a problem if more than 5% of logis actually did their jobs Oh god, please don't start this one again. The Logistics class is designed to be a highly versatile role capable of doing things from assaulting enemy positions, to medics on the battlefield. The Logistics job is to be a Combat medic. They aren't your PEZ Dispenser, nor your slave, nor your "Stay in the back and rep me so my K/D stay's high" role. The suits I wear are MINE. And as such I can, should, and will use MY suits for whatever I damn well please. I have no problem with that, and I don't want them to be nothing but medics, my personal problem comes in when they do nothing but kill, no reps, no needles, no ammo, nothing but slaying, and doing it better then any other class too, at that point they are no longer a support class. A medic that outperforms every other class, do you think that's ok? Better at assaulting then an assault, faster then a scout, more survival than a heavy, they can do all of this. All the combat, none of the medic. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 3 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 616	Posted - 2013.12.16 19:48:00 - [38] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: You all seem to be forgetting that cloaks in Eve are high power slots ... the equivalent of DUSTs weapon slots. Who's to say it won't (or shouldn't) be a light weapon slot module !? CCP has repeatedly referred to cloaks as equipment. Well it's clearly not a weapon is it !? CCP has also never said which slot they would fit in ... as you've said, they've simply referred to them as equipment. Do you not think they would be so much easier to balance if they were a light weapon slot ? ... Just imagine scouts running round with shotguns and cloaks ... imagine snipers with cloaks ... imagine ANY light weapon running round the battlefield INVISIBLE, until they decide to pull out a weapon and shoot you in the back of the head. Now think about what the cloak SHOULD be for ... infiltration ! running behind enemy lines to place drop uplinks to spawn surprise attacks, or relaying intel with scanners, or dropping remote explosives and laying in wait. They'd also be more cpu/pg balanceable since light weapons take up lots of cpu, so the cloak could be 100-120 cpu or somewhere round there such that scouts with their '20% cpu reduction to cloaks' can fit them with ease yet other suits could also gimp their slaying abilities to fit them but would also gimp their other fitting options. Obviously the numbers need working on but the principle is the best way I can see to balance them without letting them be abused ... you'd still have you sidearm (unless you were a logi !)
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 1175	Posted - 2013.12.16 19:55:00 - [39] - Quote Cloaking active device as an equipment should be for all, scout should have a passive ability to cloak, without the need to use an equipment slot. "Just another piece of duct tape" Drugs for mercs
OZAROW warravens League of Infamy 1097	Posted - 2013.12.16 21:05:00 - [40] - Quote They should be scout only an if not they should be built into a scout suit with a passive selection not equip an here why: If you take a min logistics an put 4 complex dampeners on it, and a scanner a proto gallente scout will not be able to find it because it's passive scan percision an complex precision mod only reaches about 30 db an it won't be able to scan with a active scanner if it needs a cloak in the equip slot, which would make scouts easier to kill than they are now! An the min scout would need all it's shield slots for percision mods an run a cloak to not get killed moving around so then they have 125/80 something shield armor HP so it's gotta be scout only or build into the suit an scouts need to be able to do it the Longest as well or this will be more game breaking than active scanners

T8R Raid BIG BAD W0LVES 85	Posted - 2013.12.16 21:12:00 - [41] - Quote Soon, cloaked murder logis will reign supreme, you know CCP is gonna screw this up horribly. Proto logis are gonna be able to fit proto weapons with cloaks no problem just watch. Unchecked dishonesty can promote the perception that one must cheat to remain competitive.
Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 4099	Posted - 2013.12.16 21:16:00 - [42] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Someone had to say it: cloaks should be scout only, for fucks sake we can't have one bloody thing to ourselves? Mark my words that this module will be abused heavily by non scout players, just watch it happen. Oh, you mean like Cloaks in EVE which are totally fitted to every single ship and have no detrimental effects to them or means of stopping them from being completely OP? I think you can stop worrying. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Demon Buddah NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 86	Posted - 2013.12.16 21:18:00 - [43] - Quote I agree Simboto. We are a stealth class so we should be the only ones to use it. And to anyone who disagrees is probably gonna be the assholes to abuse it. So CCP, please make it a scout exlusive.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5904	Posted - 2013.12.16 21:44:00 - [44] - Quote I'm all for making the cloak available to all suits like how Eve ships are able to, but allow only dedicated scouts to have the most benefits for it. A 99% reduction in overall CPU/PG usage when fitted on a scout should suffice. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11290	Posted - 2013.12.16 21:45:00 - [45] - Quote NO. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5904	Posted - 2013.12.16 21:45:00 - [46] - Quote Demon Buddah wrote: I agree Simboto. We are a stealth class so we should be the only ones to use it. And to anyone who disagrees is probably gonna be the assholes to abuse it. So CCP, please make it a scout exlusive. I'm a dedicated scout (professional ninja knifer here) and I disagree. What do you say to that? OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1944	Posted - 2013.12.16 21:49:00 - [47] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Django Quik wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: You all seem to be forgetting that cloaks in Eve are high power slots ... the equivalent of DUSTs weapon slots. Who's to say it won't (or shouldn't) be a light weapon slot module !? CCP has repeatedly referred to cloaks as equipment. Well it's clearly not a weapon is it !? CCP has also never said which slot they would fit in ... as you've said, they've simply referred to them as equipment. Do you not think they would be so much easier to balance if they were a light weapon slot ? ... Just imagine scouts running round with shotguns and cloaks ... imagine snipers with cloaks ... imagine ANY light weapon running round the battlefield INVISIBLE, until they decide to pull out a weapon and shoot you in the back of the head. Now think about what the cloak SHOULD be for ... infiltration ! running behind enemy lines to place drop uplinks to spawn surprise attacks, or relaying intel with scanners, or dropping remote explosives and laying in wait. They'd also be more cpu/pg balanceable since light weapons take up lots of cpu, so the cloak could be 100-120 cpu or somewhere round there such that scouts with their '20% cpu reduction to cloaks' can fit them with ease yet other suits could also gimp their slaying abilities to fit them but would also gimp their other fitting options. Obviously the numbers need working on but the principle is the best way I can see to balance them without letting them be abused ... you'd still have you sidearm (unless you were a logi !) They've been calling it equipment because it's going to go in the equipment slots - I would have thought that was obvious. If it was going to be a module to go in a high or low module slot, they would have been calling it a module. As for it being easier to balance as a module; I don't see how it's any more easy than having it as equipment. The only problem is then that scouts won't be able to fit cloaks and do other stuff that is basically essential to their role... unless the scout suits are changed and given an extra equipment slot! Equipment also already functions as active items, which have to be selected and triggered to use - this functionality does not yet exist for any modules, so would require more changes to suits and systems that would likely just end up with more bugs and problems as a result. Also, your 120 CPU and 20% reduction may just be example numbers but I think you vastly underestimate what is intended with them - we're talking more like 300 - 400 CPU and a 90 - 95% reduction for scouts. 120 CPU would make them easily usable by pretty much anyone who wants to sacrifice a single low slot for a CPU mod and logis wouldn't even need to do that. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
knight of 6 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 845	Posted - 2013.12.16 21:51:00 - [48] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Someone had to say it: cloaks should be scout only, for fucks sake we can't have one bloody thing to ourselves? Mark my words that this module will be abused heavily by non scout players, just watch it happen. tell me, I know you started playing EvE, how many non-black ops combat ships fit cloaky? none... things that fit cloaking units: scanning ships haulers black ops stealth bombers T3 covert reconfiguration occasionally travel fit caps but that is rare applying the same to dust: things that fit cloaking units: scouts "God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon Ko6, scout, tanker. CLOSED BETA VET
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1369	Posted - 2013.12.16 22:24:00 - [49] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: NO. Cloaks should and must be available to anyone. Just that scouts (specifically, not lights) would be most unbothered to fit it. Sandboxing. Secondly, the scout class MUST be viable to a degree without the cloak. ^ Absolutamento. x 2. I support SP rollover.
Dimmu Borgir II The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 199	Posted - 2013.12.16 22:28:00 - [50] - Quote What are you guys talking about cloaks??!? This isn't harry potter, this is dust 514! WTF?? You guys are all high! Blue is good, red is bad, orange you glad you're not red?

Tch Tch Red Shirts Away Team 78	Posted - 2013.12.16 22:42:00 - [51] - Quote Why not make the cloak essentially an active module in a low slot activated from the equipment wheel? I think the cloaks fitting cost should be proportional (linear or logarithmic) to what it is hiding. So if you have a low profile it is easier to cloak. This means any skills for profile reduction also reduce fitting costs and Dampeners do as well. So a heavy has say a 55 dB profile it costs him 55 CPU A scout with a 28 CPU it costs him 28 CPU to fit. The cloak has its own stamina which mimics the users. Say for a medium 120, his profile of 50 will drain it at 5 per second standing still, 15 for walking, 45 for running. A scout has 200, his profile of 28 will drain it at 2.8 per second standing still, 8.4 for walking, 25.2 for running. Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
Oswald Rehnquist 898	Posted - 2013.12.16 22:43:00 - [52] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: You all seem to be forgetting that cloaks in Eve are high power slots ... the equivalent of DUSTs weapon slots. Who's to say it won't (or shouldn't) be a light weapon slot module !? I actually like the light weapon slot idea myself. I would lol so hard based on the rage medium frames would throw out by not wanting to sacrifice damage potential to be able to cloak (equivalent of not wanting to sacrifice ehp for damps). It would also make the commando more sneaky considering his name and slot layout. Below 28 dB
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3299	Posted - 2013.12.16 22:43:00 - [53] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Someone had to say it: cloaks should be scout only, for fucks sake we can't have one bloody thing to ourselves? Mark my words that this module will be abused heavily by non scout players, just watch it happen. Specially Logis....For a change...lol... AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
mollerz Minja Scouts 1356	Posted - 2013.12.16 23:58:00 - [54] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: NO. Cloaks should and must be available to anyone. Just that scouts (specifically, not lights) would be most unbothered to fit it. Sandboxing. Secondly, the scout class MUST be viable to a degree without the cloak. Cool. I'd like to put a forge gun on my scout. Can we get this moving to land right about the time the cloak does? #shittycoding
Kira Takizawa 2Shitz 1Giggle 70	Posted - 2013.12.17 00:04:00 - [55] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Someone had to say it: cloaks should be scout only, for fucks sake we can't have one bloody thing to ourselves? Mark my words that this module will be abused heavily by non scout players, just watch it happen. And you think scouts won't abuse them..? I'm a scout as well before you say "if you aren't ___ don't say anything"
knight of 6 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 847	Posted - 2013.12.17 00:09:00 - [56] - Quote mollerz wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: NO. Cloaks should and must be available to anyone. Just that scouts (specifically, not lights) would be most unbothered to fit it. Sandboxing. Secondly, the scout class MUST be viable to a degree without the cloak. Cool. I'd like to put a forge gun on my scout. Can we get this moving to land right about the time the cloak does? it makes sense that a heavy frame can fit weapons that would be too large for smaller frames. why is it so important that scouts get special gear? "look at the shiny heavy only toys I NEED SOME JUST LIKE THOSE!" no, no you don't you need bonuses in all the right places to make you the scary scout you were meant to be. "God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon Ko6, scout, tanker. CLOSED BETA VET
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 315	Posted - 2013.12.17 00:17:00 - [57] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Nope, they should be for everyone, WHY? Like the OP says, scouts deserve something that is scout-exclusive. It's supposed to be a specialist suit. Jealous? Want a cloak? You can have one. Just go change into a scout suit. And to stop the re-re-rehash: No, not everything is usable in all suits, so your 'should' is completely unjustifyable. There are heavy-only items, so it's perfectly justifyable to have scout-only items. That's not how new eden works. Want to fit a cloak on a heavy? good on you, go right ahead. Want to use a cloak well? Get a scout. That's how it is in Eve. Any ship can fit a cloak, but only black ops and covert ops ships can use them well. Perhaps have a cloak for anyone to use, and a special covert ops cloak that only scout suits can fit.
Kira Takizawa 2Shitz 1Giggle 70	Posted - 2013.12.17 00:21:00 - [58] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Nope, they should be for everyone, WHY? Like the OP says, scouts deserve something that is scout-exclusive. It's supposed to be a specialist suit. Jealous? Want a cloak? You can have one. Just go change into a scout suit. And to stop the re-re-rehash: No, not everything is usable in all suits, so your 'should' is completely unjustifyable. There are heavy-only items, so it's perfectly justifyable to have scout-only items. That's not how new eden works. Want to fit a cloak on a heavy? good on you, go right ahead. Want to use a cloak well? Get a scout. That's how it is in Eve. Any ship can fit a cloak, but only black ops and covert ops ships can use them well. Perhaps have a cloak for anyone to use, and a special covert ops cloak that only scout suits can fit. Last I checked Eve and Dust are two different games and should stay as such. Heavies got their guns and we get our cloaks. Then mediums suits can have whatever the hell they will be getting later.
J0hlss0n Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 67	Posted - 2013.12.17 00:23:00 - [59] - Quote Scouts need something to make them stand out and actually do some work, so I would not be against the idea of only letting the Scouts use a cloak device.
Kira Takizawa 2Shitz 1Giggle 71	Posted - 2013.12.17 00:33:00 - [60] - Quote J0hlss0n wrote: Scouts need something to make them stand out and actually do some work, so I would not be against the idea of only letting the Scouts use a cloak device. To me scouts are fine people just need to learn to use a different playstyle when they become a scout.



Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page