1.7 tankers believing skill is what keeps them alive

Classic

A lack of skill from AV is what is keeping vehicles alive. Your miss understood my point.

No I understood your point entirely. I'm saying that unless AV has prototype and excellent coordination, they will only pop horrible militia tanks that are just horrible at tanking.

If you can't see the imbalance here that fiercely favors tanks then I'm not entirely sure what to tell you.

"Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me"

-Such is the motto of vehicle pilots

Says this whilst complaining that it shouldn't take more than one person to take out a vehicle.

Says this whilst complaining that it shouldn't take more than one person to take out a vehicle.

Says this whilst complaining about people not using teamwork to take out a solo killing machine.

Your not supposed to be able to kill a HAV with dropsuit AV while the hardeners are on. If you can't kill a HAV while the hardener is down then that's poor playing on your part. If you want to kill a HAV while the hardener is active group up with 3+ swarmer/FG and you'll be able to do so provided you all land your shots. The problem isn't the vehicles strength its the vehicles speed.

I'd consistently go 15-30 and 0 before 1.7 rarely loosing a vehicle (once every 20 rounds usually but have gone as high as 46 matches) when they were under powered. The problem isn't how much damage they do or how much damage they can take, which they need to be able to do in order to push an objective effectively. The problem is vehicle speed and the fact most of you aren't adapting. You still feel you should be able to skillisly solo a vehicle while its in a "reinforced" mode.

Adapt your play style and start doing what tanks have been doing for months now, communicating and coordinating in a squad that compliments there role. You want to stomp tanks? Get yourself a squad with a drop-ship pilot, a sniper and 4 AV. Sniper communicates where enemy vehicles are, coordinate with the drop-ship pilot to fly you over said vehicle at a CHOKE POINT set your bait and when he bites hit hard and fast. If the vehicle gets away you have a drop-ship a couple of you can hope into and chase him down with.

That being said you shouldn't only be killing vehicles. Tanks as well as guardians are responsible for controlling and holding the outside objectives so you should be destroying or capturing CRU's, supply depots, capturing turrets and letter objectives.

Seriously if you don't like vehicles stay in the city and focus on your gun game. Stop being so basic.

Your not supposed to be able to kill a HAV with dropsuit AV while the hardeners are on. If you can't kill a HAV while the hardener is down then that's poor playing on your part. If you want to kill a HAV while the hardener is active group up with 3+ swarmer/FG and you'll be able to do so provided you all land your shots. The problem isn't the vehicles strength its the vehicles speed.

I'd consistently go 15-30 and 0 before 1.7 rarely loosing a vehicle (once every 20 rounds usually but have gone as high as 46 matches) when they were under powered. The problem isn't how much damage they do or how much damage they can take, which they need to be able to do in order to push an objective effectively. The problem is vehicle speed and the fact most of you aren't adapting. You still feel you should be able to skillisly solo a vehicle while its in a "reinforced" mode.

Adapt your play style and start doing what tanks have been doing for months now, communicating and coordinating in a squad that compliments there role. You want to stomp tanks? Get yourself a squad with a drop-ship pilot, a sniper and 4 AV. Sniper communicates where enemy vehicles are, coordinate with the drop-ship pilot to fly you over said vehicle at a CHOKE POINT set your bait and when he bites hit hard and fast. If the vehicle gets away you have a drop-ship a couple of you can hope into and chase him down with.

That being said you shouldn't only be killing vehicles. Tanks as well as guardians are responsible for controlling and holding the outside objectives so you should be destroying or capturing CRU's, supply depots, capturing turrets and letter objectives.

Seriously if you don't like vehicles stay in the city and focus on your gun game. Stop being so basic.

Where do you see me complaining about that?

Makes my work easier.

Your not supposed to be able to kill a HAV with dropsuit AV while the hardeners are on. If you can't kill a HAV while the hardener is down then that's poor playing on your part. If you want to kill a HAV while the hardener is active group up with 3+ swarmer/FG and you'll be able to do so provided you all land your shots. The problem isn't the vehicles strength its the vehicles speed.

I'd consistently go 15-30 and 0 before 1.7 rarely loosing a vehicle (once every 20 rounds usually but have gone as high as 46 matches) when they were under powered. The problem isn't how much damage they do or how much damage they can take, which they need to be able to do in order to push an objective effectively. The problem is vehicle speed and the fact most of you aren't adapting. You still feel you should be able to skillisly solo a vehicle while its in a "reinforced" mode.

Adapt your play style and start doing what tanks have been doing for months now, communicating and coordinating in a squad that compliments there role. You want to stomp tanks? Get yourself a squad with a drop-ship pilot, a sniper and 4 AV. Sniper communicates where enemy vehicles are, coordinate with the drop-ship pilot to fly you over said vehicle at a CHOKE POINT set your bait and when he bites hit hard and fast. If the vehicle gets away you have a drop-ship a couple of you can hope into and chase him down with.

That being said you shouldn't only be killing vehicles. Tanks as well as guardians are responsible for controlling and holding the outside objectives so you should be destroying or capturing CRU's, supply depots, capturing turrets and letter objectives.

Seriously if you don't like vehicles stay in the city and focus on your gun game. Stop being so basic.

I was actually just having fun copying your sentence, though the point still stands. Why does infantry have to jump through hoops with team mates when tanks are literally solo machines now?

All nice. But your scenario is open to many variables. including not have that DS get destroyed. Or should every team have a expert DS pilot? This is not a RTS where every team is gonna have all the pieces like chess. It's a lobby FPS. and that's where the changes made to this game revolve around. AV is not a "deterrent" in FPS games. Never was meant to. I agree that speed on tanks really needs to be looked into tho.

All nice. But your scenario is open to many variables. including not have that DS get destroyed. Or should every team have a expert DS pilot? This is not a RTS where every team is gonna have all the pieces like chess. It's a lobby FPS. and that's where the changes made to this game revolve around. AV is not a "deterrent" in FPS games. Never was meant to. I agree that speed on tanks really needs to be looked into tho.

Says this whilst complaining that it shouldn't take more than one person to take out a vehicle.

If it shouldn't take more than one person to operate a vehicle, then it shouldn't take more than one person to destroy it. Otherwise you create a numerical imbalance.

If AV requires teamwork, then so should vehicles. If AV requires no teamwork, than HAVs shouldn't require teamwork (which is exactly what we had before Tank 514)

And what you said still fails to disprove the truth and legitimacy of that statement.

Your not supposed to be able to kill a HAV with dropsuit AV while the hardeners are on. If you can't kill a HAV while the hardener is down then that's poor playing on your part. If you want to kill a HAV while the hardener is active group up with 3+ swarmer/FG and you'll be able to do so provided you all land your shots. The problem isn't the vehicles strength its the vehicles speed.

I'd consistently go 15-30 and 0 before 1.7 rarely loosing a vehicle (once every 20 rounds usually but have gone as high as 46 matches) when they were under powered. The problem isn't how much damage they do or how much damage they can take, which they need to be able to do in order to push an objective effectively. The problem is vehicle speed and the fact most of you aren't adapting. You still feel you should be able to skillisly solo a vehicle while its in a "reinforced" mode.

Adapt your play style and start doing what tanks have been doing for months now, communicating and coordinating in a squad that compliments there role. You want to stomp tanks? Get yourself a squad with a drop-ship pilot, a sniper and 4 AV. Sniper communicates where enemy vehicles are, coordinate with the drop-ship pilot to fly you over said vehicle at a CHOKE POINT set your bait and when he bites hit hard and fast. If the vehicle gets away you have a drop-ship a couple of you can hope into and chase him down with.

That being said you shouldn't only be killing vehicles. Tanks as well as guardians are responsible for controlling and holding the outside objectives so you should be destroying or capturing CRU's, supply depots, capturing turrets and letter objectives.

Seriously if you don't like vehicles stay in the city and focus on your gun game. Stop being so basic.

1.7 tankers believing skill is what keeps them alive

Classic

Says a guy that at one time or another complained that his AR doesn't do enough damage to vehicles.

Lol. And the argument just keeps going and going and going............. :-) You guys are awesome. Never get bored with tank/av threads.

"Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me"

-Such is the motto of vehicle pilots

Av is really lacking right now.

We need EWAR, webifiers and EMPs would be a great. Something besides just damage, because that just starts the buff Nerf cycle.

Other aspects of AV need a nice buff. Proxies and remotes especially. Establishing a defensive line against tanks should be possible, even through hardeners tanks should struggle to cross these without infantry support.

All nice. But your scenario is open to many variables. including not have that DS get destroyed. Or should every team have a expert DS pilot? This is not a RTS where every team is gonna have all the pieces like chess. It's a lobby FPS. and that's where the changes made to this game revolve around. AV is not a "deterrent" in FPS games. Never was meant to. I agree that speed on tanks really needs to be looked into tho.

Lol @ your signature, name-dropping a game that doesn't have any vehicles at all. You make 0 sense.

It's not a lobby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't see the problem with squading with competent pilots. What problem do you have with that?

Lol. And the argument just keeps going and going and going............. :-) You guys are awesome. Never get bored with tank/av threads.

I haven't actually seen any valid argument from the tanker perspective yet. What I have heard so far:

You should adapt
you should use teamwork - lots of it
you should drive a tank too
you should adapt - again
I killed a tank solo, so they must be fine
tanks don't bother me, so they must be fine
Adapt! FFS

Problem is that all of these are just opinions and you can't convince someone that they're wrong when they're happy about it. I would love to hear a logical reason as to why tanks are currently balanced. If it's just your opinion, then everyone is going to poke holes in it and it will get you nowhere.

A single AV user versus a single vehicle user is not a simple equation: active vehicle modules, cooldowns; passive dropsuit modules; weapons; terrain, map layout, installations, ammo/loaded clip, etc. There are many things that can have a serious impact on how and when a vehicle is vulnerable.

Also bear in mind that both have significant advantages over the other:

HAVs:
+ Faster than infantry
+ More powerful weaponry
+ Periods of power
- Reduced manoeuvrability (less capable of traversing tight spaces, for example)
- Limited awareness (vehicle visibility is more restricted)
- Periods of vulnerability

Dropships:
+ Greatly increased manoeuvrability and speed
+ Periods of power
- Easy target acquisition (less cover for aerial vehicles, for example)
- Periods of vulnerability

Infantry:
+ Increased manoeuvrability (can access interiors for protection, for example)
+ Flexibility in engagement terms (ability to use environment, to generate ambushes for example)
- Inferior survivability
- Less powerful weaponry (makes engagement risky without stacking odds in some form)

This isn't comprehensive, and I'm not the most well versed in AV-vehicle balance but these are what I can see as intended principles of vehicle combat. But assuming these, it seems that a lot of discussion around balance ignores a lot of the environmental and situational factors which are supposed to play a part.

Blaster HAV caught your Forge Gunner in a relatively open field with active modules available? Then your Forge Gunner should probably lose.
Forge Gunner ambushes a Rail HAV retreating with modules in cooldown? Tank should probably blow up.

Did the tank get caught on terrain? Did it need to slow down and turn, limiting it's manoeuvrability? Did the AVer jump in close and stand still? There are a lot of things that alter the balance on a situational basis. Personally speaking, I feel that HAV speed needs tweaking (Gallente need slower acceleration, Caldari need slower top speed) and AV needs a slight buff to Swarms (damage needs to return to 330, range is good) while Forge Guns need to get a slight revamp to make non-Assault variants viable.

But that's me trying to be reasonable. I'll show myself out...


Edit:
For reference, I am primarily an infantry (Logistics) with a new focus on Assault Dropships (which is what I always wanted to be, but because of the gamestate when I first began did not skill into them) while I use HAVs (primarily Sicas) as my anti-armour. Judge that as you will, but I am trying to be fair in my assessments.