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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2599
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Posted - 2013.12.01 03:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Im sorry beforehand for any mispells i might/probably will have,since my english ''corrector'' is not working ATM.
Scanners. Hmm. Ok i can go there me being a wannabe scout and all i think the best way to BALANCE THE SCANNERS, is to REMOVE THE DUVOLLE FOCUSED ACTIVE SCANNER.
Here me out please, this is not some random rant without reasoning...
As it is, with the release of the active scanners , scouts have become REALLY underpowered, leaving them only the chance to armor and shield tank and hope they get to attack first, or depend on 1HKO weapons like Nova Knifes and R/E.
Now lets see what we have now:
GÖª Scout with Lv5 scout/Lv 5 Profile Dampening/A Complex Profile Dampener gets in a Game vs a good Corp, or in a PC match.
GÖª SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED
GÖª Red Dot goes to supply depo
GÖª YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED.
The ONLY way the scout has to survive now,since AA and hit detection is so powerful, is to be STEALTHY. If you are facing a powerful corp you know they WONT RISK A SCOUT running around with something that could possibly destroy their Proto suits very easily,like a shotgun or a remote explosive.
So you know they will have at least 2 people with Duvolle Focused A.S. in a loadout.
As soon as you get scanned in a scout suit, EVEN for 5 seconds, that means you have lost the main advantage of being a scout. That thing that is THE scout BONUS? LOST.
Scout Lv 5
Profile Dampening Lv 5
1 low slot For a Complex Profile Dampener
Total: Over 3.5 Million SP
Gets beat by
Lv 5 A.Scanners
1 equipment slot. That in the case of Logis is next to nothing.
Total: Under 1 Mill SP
See the problem here?
Now lets see what would happen if the FOCUSED ACTIVE SCANNER goes:
(We are talking aLL Lv 5 Passives here and Dropsuit commands)
A Scout:
Without Dampeners Avoids ADV A.Scanners (Around 30 db)
With a Basic Prof Dampener they can avoid ALL scanners (25 db)
The scout is dangerous again.
A Med Frame:
No Dampener lets you avoid STD level A.Scanners only. (45db)
With a1 Cx Profile Dampener you can avoid ADV A.Scanners (33db)
IF you sacrifice ANOTHER low slot and MORE CPU for a SECOND Profile Dempener, you get to BEAT All Scanners.(26db)
(and its STILL a very high price to pay,considering the massive difference in SP invested and 1 Equipment slot < 2 Low slots, but ok...)
But now at LEAST you can be sure your investment was worth it,since you are 100% sure that you wont be seen in anyone's radar, thanks to you Lv 5 Dampening skill and your 2 Low Slot sacrifice.
Balance.
Notice Scanners keep All their qualities and are still VERY powerful, but there are ways around it making ''HP'' tanking NOT the only competitive way to play.
Hope you get to understand my idea and like it.
Leave your comments below on what you think.
The Best Damage Mod, its a Headshot....
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Fire of Prometheus
DUST University
Ivy League
1871
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Posted - 2013.12.01 03:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Like most duvolle gear, it's being spammed to no end.
Although an adv scanner will work for like 85-90% of the situations
"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle
I'll take your Iskies
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Roger Cordill
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
106
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Posted - 2013.12.01 03:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Who uses the fouced? No, just nerf it for everything, then rebuff it for Gal Scouts. We get our EWAR, and people doesn't have to worry about getting scanned 24/7. Also, Logi's finally can't do something better than Scouts  |
KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2599
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Posted - 2013.12.01 03:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Fire of Prometheus wrote:Like most duvolle gear, it's being spammed to no end.
Although an adv scanner will work for like 85-90% of the situations
Well yeah,But think in the COMPETITIVE PART OF THE GAME.
Why skill into scout + Profile DAmpening if you are going to get scanned anyways and then be followed around by 900Hp logis?
See my dilemma? XD
The Best Damage Mod, its a Headshot....
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JL3Eleven
1278
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Posted - 2013.12.01 03:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
I use the one where it puts the enemy on blast for 16 seconds with a 100m range  .
LAV Dealer
"Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it." -Henry David Thoreau
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2600
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Posted - 2013.12.01 03:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Roger Cordill wrote:Who uses the fouced? No, just nerf it for everything, then rebuff it for Gal Scouts. We get our EWAR, and people doesn't have to worry about getting scanned 24/7. Also, Logi's finally can't do something better than Scouts
Actually, Outside the Focused Scanner i think A.Scanners are pretty balanced.
The Best Damage Mod, its a Headshot....
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2600
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Posted - 2013.12.01 03:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
JL3Eleven wrote:I use the one where it puts the enemy on blast for 16 seconds with a 100m range .
A-45 Quantum Active scanner that is. 36db
The Best Damage Mod, its a Headshot....
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Admonishment
The Enclave Syndicate
Dark Taboo
35
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Posted - 2013.12.01 04:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lol I just run as soon as I notice the scans aren't being prevented anymore...cant do anything else and if anymore slots are sacrificed I might as well just blow myself up and save them the trouble.
Level 5 Proficiency in Tupperware handling.
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2601
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Posted - 2013.12.01 05:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Admonishment wrote:Lol I just run as soon as I notice the scans aren't being prevented anymore...cant do anything else and if anymore slots are sacrificed I might as well just blow myself up and save them the trouble.
Exactly, I have my Scout with 1 Profile Dampner and CAN avoid Scanners BUTas soon as somone takes out a FOCUSED one,i just go for a Supply depo and change to a Tanked Med frame. Unless whats the point of running around in 300HP if i cant even avoid radars?
Please Support my Active Scanner Thread HERE ==> X
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I-Shayz-I
I-----I
1500
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Posted - 2013.12.01 05:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Dude no one uses the focused scanner because the quantum is so much better.
Besides, the real problem with scanners is not ONE prototype one, but the way that dampeners lower your profile. One complex dampener should lower you below adv scanners for any medium suit, one complex should beat proto scanners for light suits.
unfortunately, you have to use more than one complex dampener just to avoid adv scanners with most suits, which is stupid.
Links:
List of Most Important Threads
I make logistics videos!
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JL3Eleven
1285
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Posted - 2013.12.01 05:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:JL3Eleven wrote:I use the one where it puts the enemy on blast for 16 seconds with a 100m range . A-45 Quantum Active scanner that is. 36db
Tis OP with a squad tbh.
LAV Dealer
"Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it." -Henry David Thoreau
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JL3Eleven
1285
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Posted - 2013.12.01 05:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Dude no one uses the focused scanner because the quantum is so much better.
Besides, the real problem with scanners is not ONE prototype one, but the way that dampeners lower your profile. One complex dampener should lower you below adv scanners for any medium suit, one complex should beat proto scanners for light suits.
unfortunately, you have to use more than one complex dampener just to avoid adv scanners with most suits, which is stupid.
Which is why logi's are OP atm.
LAV Dealer
"Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it." -Henry David Thoreau
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2604
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Posted - 2013.12.01 05:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Dude no one uses the focused scanner because the quantum is so much better.
Besides, the real problem with scanners is not ONE prototype one, but the way that dampeners lower your profile. One complex dampener should lower you below adv scanners for any medium suit, one complex should beat proto scanners for light suits.
unfortunately, you have to use more than one complex dampener just to avoid adv scanners with most suits, which is stupid.
Not to mention there's currently no actual "counter" to scanners. Profile dampeners are simple prevention, as they don't actually make scanners useless or not worthwhile to use. A radar jammer or TacNet jammer would be an awesome way to counter scanners.
Dude:
''One complex dampener should lower you below adv scanners for any medium suit, ''
This is ALREADY like this.
'' one complex should beat proto scanners for light suits.''
It does ! Only not the Focused.
''ou have to use more than one complex dampener just to avoid adv scanners with most suits, which is stupid.''
You are incorrect my friend making me think you dont really understand the math behind the scanners and Dampeners,but its ok. With 1 Cx Prof Dampener you already avoid ADV scanners on a med suit and with 2 Cx dampeners you avoid proto scanners, BUT THE FOCUSED ONE, there by i say its BS taht after spending 2 LOW SLOTS there is still a changce on getting scanned.
Agreed on you radar jamming stuff. Awesome.
Please Support my Active Scanner Thread HERE ==> X
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JL3Eleven
1285
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Posted - 2013.12.01 05:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:Dude no one uses the focused scanner because the quantum is so much better.
Besides, the real problem with scanners is not ONE prototype one, but the way that dampeners lower your profile. One complex dampener should lower you below adv scanners for any medium suit, one complex should beat proto scanners for light suits.
unfortunately, you have to use more than one complex dampener just to avoid adv scanners with most suits, which is stupid.
Not to mention there's currently no actual "counter" to scanners. Profile dampeners are simple prevention, as they don't actually make scanners useless or not worthwhile to use. A radar jammer or TacNet jammer would be an awesome way to counter scanners. Dude: ''One complex dampener should lower you below adv scanners for any medium suit, '' This is ALREADY like this. '' one complex should beat proto scanners for light suits.'' It does ! Only not the Focused.''ou have to use more than one complex dampener just to avoid adv scanners with most suits, which is stupid.'' You are incorrect my friend making me think you dont really understand the math behind the scanners and Dampeners,but its ok. With 1 Cx Prof Dampener you already avoid ADV scanners on a med suit and with 2 Cx dampeners you avoid proto scanners, BUT THE FOCUSED ONE, there by i say its BS taht after spending 2 LOW SLOTS there is still a changce on getting scanned.Agreed on you radar jamming stuff. Awesome.
Honestly my Cal. logi. should be able to block proto scans considering I have Dampening lvl 5 and a complex dampener yet it doesn't.
LAV Dealer
"Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it." -Henry David Thoreau
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2604
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Posted - 2013.12.01 05:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
JL3Eleven wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:Dude no one uses the focused scanner because the quantum is so much better.
Besides, the real problem with scanners is not ONE prototype one, but the way that dampeners lower your profile. One complex dampener should lower you below adv scanners for any medium suit, one complex should beat proto scanners for light suits.
unfortunately, you have to use more than one complex dampener just to avoid adv scanners with most suits, which is stupid.
Not to mention there's currently no actual "counter" to scanners. Profile dampeners are simple prevention, as they don't actually make scanners useless or not worthwhile to use. A radar jammer or TacNet jammer would be an awesome way to counter scanners. Dude: ''One complex dampener should lower you below adv scanners for any medium suit, '' This is ALREADY like this. '' one complex should beat proto scanners for light suits.'' It does ! Only not the Focused.''ou have to use more than one complex dampener just to avoid adv scanners with most suits, which is stupid.'' You are incorrect my friend making me think you dont really understand the math behind the scanners and Dampeners,but its ok. With 1 Cx Prof Dampener you already avoid ADV scanners on a med suit and with 2 Cx dampeners you avoid proto scanners, BUT THE FOCUSED ONE, there by i say its BS taht after spending 2 LOW SLOTS there is still a changce on getting scanned.Agreed on you radar jamming stuff. Awesome. Honestly my Cal. logi. should be able to block proto scans considering I have Dampening lvl 5 and a complex dampener yet it doesn't.
Please READ the ''EDIT'' Part on my OP. (in the Bottom)
I'll explain why what you said is incorrect.
You need 2 Cx To avoid proto scans bro.As it should be. If you could Avoid Proto scans with only 1 low slot, Scouts would TRULY be worthless...
Please Support my Active Scanner Thread HERE ==> X
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JDEZ09
Dark Side Alliance
20
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Posted - 2013.12.01 05:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'm actually using active scanners on my assault suits now just because they are THAT good.
No need for Nanos when you're rockin the Imperial SCR! lol  |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
691
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Posted - 2013.12.01 05:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Roger Cordill wrote:Who uses the fouced? No, just nerf it for everything, then rebuff it for Gal Scouts. We get our EWAR, and people doesn't have to worry about getting scanned 24/7. Also, Logi's finally can't do something better than Scouts Actually, Outside the Focused Scanner i think A.Scanners are pretty balanced.
Proto scanners are not balanced against mini scouts. with full skill but w/o complex dampener you can't beat any of the 28 db proto AS but min scout only gets two low slots so sacrificing one slot to a dampener leaves you only one low slot to work with. With an already dramatically underpowered suit, this is still gamebreaking.
Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1166
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Posted - 2013.12.01 06:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Is anyone else thinking an active module would be perfect to fix this.
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Doc Noah
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
929
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Posted - 2013.12.01 06:16:00 -
[19] - Quote
Easiest fixes would be
-Range reduction (100m maximum)
-Increase cooldown time between use, you shouldnt be able to keep it up 100% of the time
-Reduce "Quantum" variants from 16-25 seconds to 8-10 seconds target visibility duration), reduce scan angle slightly (from 60 to 45 degrees)
-Remove onscreen spotting and make it radar visibility only, this would remove the ability to pre-fire corners which turned the game into a legit wallhack shooter. The only time a person should be lit up on squad screen is if he is on a squadmate's crosshair. |
Tch Tch
Red Shirts Away Team
16
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Posted - 2013.12.01 06:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
Weapons fire can be traced back along the bullet flight path. Scanners should light up the user.
At the moment the scanner is a microphone only the one team hears. It's scans should light up the user & if modeled properly light up a lot of friendliest too.
The scanners are not balanced at the moment you can slot in:
Dampeners
Passive Range Increasers
Passive Precission Equipment
The scanner is a much larger range amplitude and Precission increaser. A complex range increaser and amplitude increaser are less powerful than a scanner. So more SP (two paths) plus more slots for something that really only helps the user (you are not getting SP for passive scanning). So why bother skilling into the two branches when scanning will cost you half and give you a much more powerful option.
There is no team cloak equivalent .
Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
891
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Posted - 2013.12.01 14:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Admonishment wrote:Lol I just run as soon as I notice the scans aren't being prevented anymore...cant do anything else and if anymore slots are sacrificed I might as well just blow myself up and save them the trouble. Exactly, I have my Scout with 1 Profile Dampner and CAN avoid Scanners BUTas soon as somone takes out a FOCUSED one,i just go for a Supply depo and change to a Tanked Med frame. Unless whats the point of running around in 300HP if i cant even avoid radars?
Even tho later you admit that focused scanner is a special variant of proto scanners, you heavily insist that it's a problem.
Are you bothered by it's mere existence?
As really no one is using it EXCEPT as in reaction to damp specced scout suit.
That's valid gameplay rock-paper-scissors style.
It's true that scout can't beat that focused - but have you checked the fitting requirements? They are HUGE and no one in their right mind would fit focused unless forced to. Most of time the 24 second one is the king.
Even after saying those things, I feel that scanners are NOT fine at the moment.
See this thread for more on that.
Feeling the scanner is too simple and off balance?
The fix:
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negative49er
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
351
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Posted - 2013.12.01 15:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
or just take scanner out of the game completely they take the being "tactical" out of the game.
One day my shotgun will run out ammo
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Kaylee Veloc
ShootBreakStab
39
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Posted - 2013.12.01 16:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
Just to throw it out there, I would like to be able to fit 2 damps aswell as a kin cat on my minmatar assault CCP >.> |
Mac Dac
Wraith Shadow Guards
281
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Posted - 2013.12.01 16:30:00 -
[24] - Quote
Yep just got proto dampeners and now im trying to get a proto gal scout, since i here it is the only 1that can break the focused's threshold. But i doubt that to many people would use the focused unless they are looking for scouts. After all the quantum is so much more alluring.
But yeah im jus gonna tell you out of experience,1complex dampener ain't gonna cut it... you need to stack like a MOFO. forget kincats and armor mods as they serve a scout no use. Dampeners ,my friend, is the only thing that is of use to us now.
As I said many times before, everything adds to the eradication of the scouts.
The scouts are a dieing race whose advantages will only further strengthen the logi.
Join them or perish.
Resistance is futile.
... to be a scout is futile nethier the less
"We should take care not to make intellect our god; it has, of course, strong muscles, but no personality" Albert Einste
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2629
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Posted - 2013.12.01 22:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
Lets say a VERY Good scout gets in a PC match, the most competitive game type we have ATM.
The scout starts to really own enemies with his 25db.
You REALLY think a dedicated Corp member WONT change one of his loadouts and EVEN BUY FOCUSED A.Scanner IN GAME just to detect the scout?
The mere fact this is an Option leaves the Scout in a uncomfortable situation and even More UP,since if you re going to be on everyone's radar,even for 5 secs, then its better just going with a Med Frame.
Please Support my Active Scanner Thread HERE ==> X
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Oswald Rehnquist
752
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Posted - 2013.12.01 23:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
i disagree, if we are ever to expect cloaks at all in the future there needs to be something that can beat it
Below 28 dB
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Oswald Rehnquist
752
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Posted - 2013.12.01 23:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
what would be interesting would be if all ewar related equipment required the use of weapon slots and the team boosting items used equipment slots
Below 28 dB
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Monkey MAC
killer taxi company
1099
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Posted - 2013.12.01 23:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ok
I understand what your thinking, but the idea is the duvolle is a scout catcher, that's what it is meant to do.
This doesn't make the scanners unbalanced, the way scanners work is unbalanced.
1) Once you scan, you can switch back to your light weapon
This is problematic because there is no negative to doing a quick 360 and the getting intel for the next 30 seconds
2)Scans 'Tag' players physically showing there tag to 100% accuracy, 100% of the time
This is problematic because having THIS much intel without a drawback is a little unfair
3) Tagging lasts for ridiculous amounts of time
4) Scans have incredibly long ranges
Ideally I think scanners should work more like the movement detectors in ALIENS.
The scanner sends a pulse intermittently that 'tags' the player, but this tag is only updated with each pulse
Furthermore as soon as you change to a weapon or other equipment the tag data is lost
So you might choose a short range scanner with moderate prescision, that comes with a short interval to give full real time info to a squad.
Or you might go for ultra long range moderate prescion but with an incredibily long interaval, which would serve more as global battlefield intel, such as where you predict groups are moving to.
As for being able to detect scouts, there should still be one, but it is only short range, moderate interval and incredibly small FOV
The pen is mightier than the sword
The gun is mightier than both
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2638
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Posted - 2013.12.02 00:14:00 -
[29] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Ok
I understand what your thinking, but the idea is the duvolle is a scout catcher, that's what it is meant to do.
This doesn't make the scanners unbalanced, the way scanners work is unbalanced.
1) Once you scan, you can switch back to your light weapon
This is problematic because there is no negative to doing a quick 360 and the getting intel for the next 30 seconds
2)Scans 'Tag' players physically showing there tag to 100% accuracy, 100% of the time
This is problematic because having THIS much intel without a drawback is a little unfair
3) Tagging lasts for ridiculous amounts of time
4) Scans have incredibly long ranges
Ideally I think scanners should work more like the movement detectors in ALIENS.
The scanner sends a pulse intermittently that 'tags' the player, but this tag is only updated with each pulse
Furthermore as soon as you change to a weapon or other equipment the tag data is lost
So you might choose a short range scanner with moderate prescision, that comes with a short interval to give full real time info to a squad.
Or you might go for ultra long range moderate prescion but with an incredibily long interaval, which would serve more as global battlefield intel, such as where you predict groups are moving to.
As for being able to detect scouts, there should still be one, but it is only short range, moderate interval and incredibly small FOV
I disagree. Profile Dampening Being the SCOUTS Bonus and strength SHOULD not have a counter.
A Full proto scout with at least a Full Proto Profile Dampener Should be undetectable, SPECIALLY because the LOW SP investment to get a Duvolle Focused scanner. I mean. Srsly,its a joke to get,and cosnidering Logis are the FOTM, A Joke to equip...
Please Support my Active Scanner Thread HERE ==> X
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Monkey MAC
killer taxi company
1099
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Posted - 2013.12.02 00:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Ok
I understand what your thinking, but the idea is the duvolle is a scout catcher, that's what it is meant to do.
This doesn't make the scanners unbalanced, the way scanners work is unbalanced.
1) Once you scan, you can switch back to your light weapon
This is problematic because there is no negative to doing a quick 360 and the getting intel for the next 30 seconds
2)Scans 'Tag' players physically showing there tag to 100% accuracy, 100% of the time
This is problematic because having THIS much intel without a drawback is a little unfair
3) Tagging lasts for ridiculous amounts of time
4) Scans have incredibly long ranges
Ideally I think scanners should work more like the movement detectors in ALIENS.
The scanner sends a pulse intermittently that 'tags' the player, but this tag is only updated with each pulse
Furthermore as soon as you change to a weapon or other equipment the tag data is lost
So you might choose a short range scanner with moderate prescision, that comes with a short interval to give full real time info to a squad.
Or you might go for ultra long range moderate prescion but with an incredibily long interaval, which would serve more as global battlefield intel, such as where you predict groups are moving to.
As for being able to detect scouts, there should still be one, but it is only short range, moderate interval and incredibly small FOV I disagree. Profile Dampening Being the SCOUTS Bonus and strength SHOULD not have a counter. A Full proto scout with at least a Full Proto Profile Dampener Should be undetectable, SPECIALLY because the LOW SP investment to get a Duvolle Focused scanner. I mean. Srsly,its a joke to get,and cosnidering Logis are the FOTM, A Joke to equip...
Hold on so your only problem with scanners is that there is one that can detect everythin?
Thats it?
You don't care so long as the scout is completly invisible to radar?
I'm sorry but there should be a counter to EVERYTHING, in the case of profile damping thats the scanner. If the way scanners worked wasn't so problematic it wouldn't be a problem.
The pen is mightier than the sword
The gun is mightier than both
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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