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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2599
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Posted - 2013.12.01 03:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Im sorry beforehand for any mispells i might/probably will have,since my english ''corrector'' is not working ATM.
Scanners. Hmm. Ok i can go there me being a wannabe scout and all i think the best way to BALANCE THE SCANNERS, is to REMOVE THE DUVOLLE FOCUSED ACTIVE SCANNER.
Here me out please, this is not some random rant without reasoning...
As it is, with the release of the active scanners , scouts have become REALLY underpowered, leaving them only the chance to armor and shield tank and hope they get to attack first, or depend on 1HKO weapons like Nova Knifes and R/E.
Now lets see what we have now: GÖª Scout with Lv5 scout/Lv 5 Profile Dampening/A Complex Profile Dampener gets in a Game vs a good Corp, or in a PC match. GÖª SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED GÖª Red Dot goes to supply depo GÖª YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED.
The ONLY way the scout has to survive now,since AA and hit detection is so powerful, is to be STEALTHY. If you are facing a powerful corp you know they WONT RISK A SCOUT running around with something that could possibly destroy their Proto suits very easily,like a shotgun or a remote explosive. So you know they will have at least 2 people with Duvolle Focused A.S. in a loadout. As soon as you get scanned in a scout suit, EVEN for 5 seconds, that means you have lost the main advantage of being a scout. That thing that is THE scout BONUS? LOST.
Scout Lv 5 Profile Dampening Lv 5 1 low slot For a Complex Profile Dampener Total: Over 3.5 Million SP
Gets beat by Lv 5 A.Scanners 1 equipment slot. That in the case of Logis is next to nothing. Total: Under 1 Mill SP
See the problem here? Now lets see what would happen if the FOCUSED ACTIVE SCANNER goes:
(We are talking aLL Lv 5 Passives here and Dropsuit commands) A Scout: Without Dampeners Avoids ADV A.Scanners (Around 30 db) With a Basic Prof Dampener they can avoid ALL scanners (25 db)
The scout is dangerous again.
A Med Frame: No Dampener lets you avoid STD level A.Scanners only. (45db) With a1 Cx Profile Dampener you can avoid ADV A.Scanners (33db) IF you sacrifice ANOTHER low slot and MORE CPU for a SECOND Profile Dempener, you get to BEAT All Scanners.(26db)
(and its STILL a very high price to pay,considering the massive difference in SP invested and 1 Equipment slot < 2 Low slots, but ok...) But now at LEAST you can be sure your investment was worth it,since you are 100% sure that you wont be seen in anyone's radar, thanks to you Lv 5 Dampening skill and your 2 Low Slot sacrifice.
Balance.
Notice Scanners keep All their qualities and are still VERY powerful, but there are ways around it making ''HP'' tanking NOT the only competitive way to play.
Hope you get to understand my idea and like it. Leave your comments below on what you think.
The Best Damage Mod, its a Headshot....
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2599
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Posted - 2013.12.01 03:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Fire of Prometheus wrote:Like most duvolle gear, it's being spammed to no end.
Although an adv scanner will work for like 85-90% of the situations
Well yeah,But think in the COMPETITIVE PART OF THE GAME. Why skill into scout + Profile DAmpening if you are going to get scanned anyways and then be followed around by 900Hp logis?
See my dilemma? XD
The Best Damage Mod, its a Headshot....
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2600
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Posted - 2013.12.01 03:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Roger Cordill wrote:Who uses the fouced? No, just nerf it for everything, then rebuff it for Gal Scouts. We get our EWAR, and people doesn't have to worry about getting scanned 24/7. Also, Logi's finally can't do something better than Scouts
Actually, Outside the Focused Scanner i think A.Scanners are pretty balanced.
The Best Damage Mod, its a Headshot....
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2600
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Posted - 2013.12.01 03:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
JL3Eleven wrote:I use the one where it puts the enemy on blast for 16 seconds with a 100m range .
A-45 Quantum Active scanner that is. 36db
The Best Damage Mod, its a Headshot....
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2601
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Posted - 2013.12.01 05:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Admonishment wrote:Lol I just run as soon as I notice the scans aren't being prevented anymore...cant do anything else and if anymore slots are sacrificed I might as well just blow myself up and save them the trouble.
Exactly, I have my Scout with 1 Profile Dampner and CAN avoid Scanners BUTas soon as somone takes out a FOCUSED one,i just go for a Supply depo and change to a Tanked Med frame. Unless whats the point of running around in 300HP if i cant even avoid radars?
Please Support my Active Scanner Thread HERE ==> X
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2604
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Posted - 2013.12.01 05:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Dude no one uses the focused scanner because the quantum is so much better.
Besides, the real problem with scanners is not ONE prototype one, but the way that dampeners lower your profile. One complex dampener should lower you below adv scanners for any medium suit, one complex should beat proto scanners for light suits.
unfortunately, you have to use more than one complex dampener just to avoid adv scanners with most suits, which is stupid.
Not to mention there's currently no actual "counter" to scanners. Profile dampeners are simple prevention, as they don't actually make scanners useless or not worthwhile to use. A radar jammer or TacNet jammer would be an awesome way to counter scanners.
Dude: ''One complex dampener should lower you below adv scanners for any medium suit, ''
This is ALREADY like this.
'' one complex should beat proto scanners for light suits.''
It does ! Only not the Focused.
''ou have to use more than one complex dampener just to avoid adv scanners with most suits, which is stupid.'' You are incorrect my friend making me think you dont really understand the math behind the scanners and Dampeners,but its ok. With 1 Cx Prof Dampener you already avoid ADV scanners on a med suit and with 2 Cx dampeners you avoid proto scanners, BUT THE FOCUSED ONE, there by i say its BS taht after spending 2 LOW SLOTS there is still a changce on getting scanned.
Agreed on you radar jamming stuff. Awesome.
Please Support my Active Scanner Thread HERE ==> X
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2604
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Posted - 2013.12.01 05:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
JL3Eleven wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:Dude no one uses the focused scanner because the quantum is so much better.
Besides, the real problem with scanners is not ONE prototype one, but the way that dampeners lower your profile. One complex dampener should lower you below adv scanners for any medium suit, one complex should beat proto scanners for light suits.
unfortunately, you have to use more than one complex dampener just to avoid adv scanners with most suits, which is stupid.
Not to mention there's currently no actual "counter" to scanners. Profile dampeners are simple prevention, as they don't actually make scanners useless or not worthwhile to use. A radar jammer or TacNet jammer would be an awesome way to counter scanners. Dude: ''One complex dampener should lower you below adv scanners for any medium suit, '' This is ALREADY like this. '' one complex should beat proto scanners for light suits.'' It does ! Only not the Focused.''ou have to use more than one complex dampener just to avoid adv scanners with most suits, which is stupid.'' You are incorrect my friend making me think you dont really understand the math behind the scanners and Dampeners,but its ok. With 1 Cx Prof Dampener you already avoid ADV scanners on a med suit and with 2 Cx dampeners you avoid proto scanners, BUT THE FOCUSED ONE, there by i say its BS taht after spending 2 LOW SLOTS there is still a changce on getting scanned.Agreed on you radar jamming stuff. Awesome. Honestly my Cal. logi. should be able to block proto scans considering I have Dampening lvl 5 and a complex dampener yet it doesn't.
Please READ the ''EDIT'' Part on my OP. (in the Bottom) I'll explain why what you said is incorrect. You need 2 Cx To avoid proto scans bro.As it should be. If you could Avoid Proto scans with only 1 low slot, Scouts would TRULY be worthless...
Please Support my Active Scanner Thread HERE ==> X
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2629
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Posted - 2013.12.01 22:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lets say a VERY Good scout gets in a PC match, the most competitive game type we have ATM.
The scout starts to really own enemies with his 25db.
You REALLY think a dedicated Corp member WONT change one of his loadouts and EVEN BUY FOCUSED A.Scanner IN GAME just to detect the scout?
The mere fact this is an Option leaves the Scout in a uncomfortable situation and even More UP,since if you re going to be on everyone's radar,even for 5 secs, then its better just going with a Med Frame.
Please Support my Active Scanner Thread HERE ==> X
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KING CHECKMATE
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2638
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Posted - 2013.12.02 00:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Ok
I understand what your thinking, but the idea is the duvolle is a scout catcher, that's what it is meant to do. This doesn't make the scanners unbalanced, the way scanners work is unbalanced.
1) Once you scan, you can switch back to your light weapon This is problematic because there is no negative to doing a quick 360 and the getting intel for the next 30 seconds
2)Scans 'Tag' players physically showing there tag to 100% accuracy, 100% of the time This is problematic because having THIS much intel without a drawback is a little unfair
3) Tagging lasts for ridiculous amounts of time 4) Scans have incredibly long ranges
Ideally I think scanners should work more like the movement detectors in ALIENS. The scanner sends a pulse intermittently that 'tags' the player, but this tag is only updated with each pulse Furthermore as soon as you change to a weapon or other equipment the tag data is lost
So you might choose a short range scanner with moderate prescision, that comes with a short interval to give full real time info to a squad.
Or you might go for ultra long range moderate prescion but with an incredibily long interaval, which would serve more as global battlefield intel, such as where you predict groups are moving to.
As for being able to detect scouts, there should still be one, but it is only short range, moderate interval and incredibly small FOV
I disagree. Profile Dampening Being the SCOUTS Bonus and strength SHOULD not have a counter.
A Full proto scout with at least a Full Proto Profile Dampener Should be undetectable, SPECIALLY because the LOW SP investment to get a Duvolle Focused scanner. I mean. Srsly,its a joke to get,and cosnidering Logis are the FOTM, A Joke to equip...
Please Support my Active Scanner Thread HERE ==> X
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2640
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Posted - 2013.12.02 01:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:
Hold on so your only problem with scanners is that there is one that can detect everythin? Thats it?
You don't care so long as the scout is completly invisible to radar?
I'm sorry but there should be a counter to EVERYTHING, in the case of profile damping thats the scanner. If the way scanners worked wasn't so problematic it wouldn't be a problem.
Mark My words, while the DUVOLLE FOCUSED ACTIVE SCANNER exist,there is not space in competitive gaming for Scouts. The thing is, if Scouts at Proto Level and Proto Passive Skills with a Proto Profile Dampener should not be able to be SCANNED.
THe Duvolle F. A.Scanner needs to be REMOVED or their scan increased to 10s duration,same range , But 23db. NOT 15db. Maybe the Scout's DAMPENING wont have any counter,but the scout itself is highly fragile and has many counters itself.
Please Support my Active Scanner Thread HERE ==> X
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2643
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Posted - 2013.12.02 01:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:I hate having to run a basic and complex on my full stealth scout.
I think non scouts shouldn't be able to carry scanners. Or if they can, then they blip on enemy radar if their scan profile is higher then the scanner they are using.
You know, your ''FULL STEALTH scout''?
He runs at 20db AT BEST. Meaning EVEN with your 2 slot sacrifice, A Duvolle A.Scanner would still pick you up.
So ''Full stealth is actually IMPOSSIBLE,thanks to the D.F.A.Scanner. (unless you want to put 4 Cx Profile Dampeners on a Gal Scout, LOL)
Please Support my Active Scanner Thread HERE ==> X
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KING CHECKMATE
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2646
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Posted - 2013.12.02 01:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:I hate having to run a basic and complex on my full stealth scout.
I think non scouts shouldn't be able to carry scanners. Or if they can, then they blip on enemy radar if their scan profile is higher then the scanner they are using. You know, your ''FULL STEALTH scout''? He runs at 20db AT BEST. Meaning EVEN with your 2 slot sacrifice, A Duvolle A.Scanner would still pick you up. So ''Full stealth is actually IMPOSSIBLE,thanks to the D.F.A.Scanner. (unless you want to put 4 Cx Profile Dampeners on a Gal Scout, LOL) Damn, guess I haven't run up to one in pubs. I just ran a match and was scanned with a complex mod and level 5 skills across the board, I figured that was the focused scanner, seems I was wrong.
Well the thing is , in a Pub match i can SEE a scout being able to avoid Scanners all of the time,because of effectiveness the Quantum at 28db is better. But NO Serious CORP will leave a SCOUT unattended in a PC match,and THIS is what really concerns me.
BTW if you have Scout Lv5,Passive Dampening Lv5, you only need a Basic Profile Dampener to take your Scan Profile all the way down to 25,there by avoiding Proto Scanners. Again, except the Focused one....
Please Support my Active Scanner Thread HERE ==> X
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2649
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Posted - 2013.12.02 02:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Cat Merc had a fantastic idea that addresses both the efficacy of scanners and dampers(and a whole lot else if taken to it's logical conclusion) in one beautiful system. Here. Basically scanners and dampers would leverage the base suit values. This would mean that scouts would profit the most from the mechanic, effectively leveraging scanning/damping modules more than any other suit was capable of. It solves the scanner problem nicely. I think it's a great mechanic and could add a lot of immersion and depth to the game, and it could be profitably employed to other areas than just scanning.
Yeah it IS a pretty decent mechanic. I will like his post but will keep mine regardless,as mine takes a LOT LESS effort and time from CCP, just needing to change the Duvolle Active scanner up to 23 db Scan Or Remove it...
Ty for your interest in the post.
Support SCOUTS : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=124408&find=unread
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KING CHECKMATE
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Posted - 2013.12.02 22:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
shameless bump.
Support SCOUTS : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=124408&find=unread
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2699
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Posted - 2013.12.03 04:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:I think that proto AS equipped on only Gal Scout should be able to detect other scouts who have dampening skills. In other words AS should be dependent on the user's built in scanning strength. Logi should not be as good with AS as scout.
You are correct, please refer to Vrain Matari's Post 3 posts above yours. And mine 2 posts above yours. :3
Support SCOUTS : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=124408&find=unread
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2699
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Posted - 2013.12.03 05:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ivy Zalinto wrote:The fact that no amount of sp can send us to complete stealth vs scanners is rather irritating honestly. I beat all adv scanners currently with an enhanced dampener and my skill increases, but since theres no benefit for me taking it to max level, due to the one scanner that will still catch me regardless of skill points, I dont bother. That should never happen honesty.
Thats what i really think.... : /
You do understand u.u
Support SCOUTS : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=124408&find=unread
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2732
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Posted - 2013.12.05 01:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
YOU KNOW WHAT? FORGET ALL THIS. WITH SHIELD DELAY INCREASED Scouts are Freakn DEAD anyways....
Start Saving SP for Combat/Rail Rifles and Armored Med frames...
ARMOR514 is coming....
Support SCOUTS : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=124408&find=unread
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