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CUSE TOWN333
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
38
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Posted - 2013.11.28 23:29:00 -
[61] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:CUSE TOWN333 wrote:Django Quik wrote:Michael Arck wrote:So basically you want to sweep the dirt under the rug. FW is not that rug. Sorry but there is no other place for it to go - pub games are not for squad stacking; that currently only leaves FW. Who are you to say were a squad can stack and were a squad can not stack. I hear the redline is a safe place for you to go if you don't like fighting. Who am I? Someone reasonable who wants this game to succeed - sorry that that aim seems to be at odds with some people who just want to boost their own egos by dominating pub games with their 10 friends. And for anyone confused, squad stacking means more than one squad, so 7+ players from the same corp. Obviously running with your corp mates is great and should be encouraged but if you want to have more than one squad running together, do it in FW where you're more likely to have an actual challenge. Understand i try to keep my stomping in FW but what im saying is your never going to stop some people from being cornballs. At the very least we can do is show up with a full squad to stop the other teams squads from doing this to you single players on are team and give them a fighting chance. If the other team is proto stomping you we will pull out proto to help are team not get stomped. IF they are q syincing you than we will call back up. I here all the bad parts of squad stacking but what about the squad thats on your team helping you win helping you lay proto fools down.
The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy"s will to be imposed upon him. Sun Tzu
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
1795
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Posted - 2013.11.29 08:30:00 -
[62] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:There's 16 players on both teams dude, squad stacking doesn't change that simple fact.
Furthermore, if FW included all game modes you might have some sort of point, but it doesn't.
You're actually arguing that if you want to play with more than 5 of your friends you shouldn't be allowed to play ambush or domination? What does it matter? How is CCP's trash matchmaking the fault of the players? I'd say the people who are "stacking" with their 5+ friends are the people keeping the ******* game alive in the first place.
Regardless, the game isn't competitive, and playing the same couple of FW scenarios over and over again is boring as hell. If CCP doesn't want large groups of people playing the game modes together, then they need to put more checks in place to prevent it from happening.
I think you're simply blaming the symptoms of a bad game on the few people who are left playing it. It's not our fault queueing is trash, it's not our fault matchmaking blows, it's not our fault that the game is brutally unfair to new players, it's not our fault there aren't more game modes... all of those are CCP's fault. If you don't like people "stomping" then take it up with CCP, not the people who are actually here playing and supporting the game.
Hell, why is stomping a problem in the first place? Because the skill system is idiotic. If they'd fix the skill system so that you don't have to treat the game like a part time job for 3-6 months just to compete, none of this would be a problem. Don't get me wrong - I understand that the cause of this is poor matchmaking and a simple change to make squads even or at most only a difference of 1 squad between the 2 sides would be the best solution. I'm not entirely blaming the players for the state of the game but there are things we can all do to make it better because CCP is taking their time over this.
All I'm trying to do is alleviate the symptoms of the poor matchmaking by encouraging people to avoid making matches ridiculously unbalanced by stacking squads. If matchmaking gets fixed in the way we envisage, you won't be able to play with 5+ of your friends anyway because the other squad will almost always end up on the other side. Then you'll only be able to stack squads in FW, so what will you all do then?
Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
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Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2772
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Posted - 2013.11.29 12:18:00 -
[63] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Baal Roo wrote:There's 16 players on both teams dude, squad stacking doesn't change that simple fact.
Furthermore, if FW included all game modes you might have some sort of point, but it doesn't.
You're actually arguing that if you want to play with more than 5 of your friends you shouldn't be allowed to play ambush or domination? What does it matter? How is CCP's trash matchmaking the fault of the players? I'd say the people who are "stacking" with their 5+ friends are the people keeping the ******* game alive in the first place.
Regardless, the game isn't competitive, and playing the same couple of FW scenarios over and over again is boring as hell. If CCP doesn't want large groups of people playing the game modes together, then they need to put more checks in place to prevent it from happening.
I think you're simply blaming the symptoms of a bad game on the few people who are left playing it. It's not our fault queueing is trash, it's not our fault matchmaking blows, it's not our fault that the game is brutally unfair to new players, it's not our fault there aren't more game modes... all of those are CCP's fault. If you don't like people "stomping" then take it up with CCP, not the people who are actually here playing and supporting the game.
Hell, why is stomping a problem in the first place? Because the skill system is idiotic. If they'd fix the skill system so that you don't have to treat the game like a part time job for 3-6 months just to compete, none of this would be a problem. Don't get me wrong - I understand that the cause of this is poor matchmaking and a simple change to make squads even or at most only a difference of 1 squad between the 2 sides would be the best solution. I'm not entirely blaming the players for the state of the game but there are things we can all do to make it better because CCP is taking their time over this. All I'm trying to do is alleviate the symptoms of the poor matchmaking by encouraging people to avoid making matches ridiculously unbalanced by stacking squads. If matchmaking gets fixed in the way we envisage, you won't be able to play with 5+ of your friends anyway because the other squad will almost always end up on the other side. Then you'll only be able to stack squads in FW, so what will you all do then?
Quit playing Dust 514 completely? I mean look, most people who are still here are here for the camaraderie and waiting out a bad game in hopes of eventual improvement and payoff. The people who play regularly in large numbers are the people keeping the game alive, so sacrificing the one thing the game currently has going for it for the sake of new players who are being ****** ten times harder by CCP than any random pub group could ever hope to is a bit counter productive in my opinion. New players are screwed regardless with an insane uphill battle of 15+ hour ls a week for months on end anyway. And do you know what generally gets people through that uphill battle? Qsyncing with their corp. |
CELESTA AUNGM
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
44
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Posted - 2013.11.29 14:53:00 -
[64] - Quote
Well said, Jadd! Well said.
Django, for many of us, your pain is very much shared, and we agree with your frustration. But... I think MOST (cannot confirm it) of the players who are feeling stomped or outnumbered by "platoon-minded" players are not yet realizing the realistically-merciless difference between Dust 514 and the other FPS games they may have been top-notch masters in: Dust REALLY is biased toward coop. It's not just "offering" team and coop opportunities to players--it's reinforcing team behavior by making co-op practically the best chance (ouch, sometimes the only chance) of lasting through a match without feeling like everyone's using you as a test-target.
When the devs said this is team-based, they MEANT it. If some of the players have learned how to take "squading up" to the level of "PLATOONING up", while others of us are being slaughtered by them because we haven't embraced even the easy tactics of "hooking up with someone on the fly, and sticking close to neighboring mercs"... then the game IS working as intended. Those who have advanced in team-mindedness are getting rewarded, and (regretfully) those who are still lacking or resisting team interaction/MIC-comm/etc are being ruthlessly chewed up. Jadd's point of view is likely correct: this aspect of suffering in the Public Contracts is exactly what's supposed to happen.
I WOULD cheer for any suggestions to LENGTHEN the 'battle academy phase' of PC matches (maybe raise the WP threshold), and prevent the maturing players from practicing what they've learned on the unprepared Newberrys:
--This still lets the "platoon-minded" players earn their ISK/SP in Public Matches when they want, but only against players who've been exposed to battle academy LONGER, and have no excuses for not being combat-wise graduates.
--This makes the Battle Academy available for a longer period of time, so that casual recreation players who don't want to get into the REAL-DEAL Dust campaigning, can just have 'fun in the front-lobby' of the game without the burden of a whole lot of team-learning stuff.
--And a longer Battle Academy phase allows Newberrys (some of whom are dedicated players, but just don't have enough time each night to practice, so will need more repetitions to get good) the time they need to LEARN what they're doing wrong.
Hey, "TEAM-mindedness" in an FPS is no easy thing to just pick up---especially since most PS3 FPS's allow you to excel as a loner (for most game titles that phrase "team-based" turned out to be just a bogus selling gimmick). Even when we get slapped aside 10 dozen times by enemy working in "groups", we naturally still assume we got slapped aside by the enemy "proto-binky"... it takes a LOT of effort and mind-changing to learn communication and movement with other fellow players. With a battle academy graduation threshold of (what is it now, 1200 WP?), you barely have enough time to learn what you need to be doing right before they consider you "graduated"...
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steadyhand amarr
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
1979
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Posted - 2013.11.29 15:25:00 -
[65] - Quote
No- people please keep doing what ever u want. That's how new eden works. You do what ever the hell u like and it's ccp job to design the system to ensure it stays fun.
"my faith is my shield, the empress's light my guide and my fury my sword"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
87
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Posted - 2013.12.02 17:11:00 -
[66] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:@Jadd - you seem to have missed my point entirely. I never said anything like don't allow squads in pub matches; my whole post is about not squad stacking in pub matches. Squad play is entirely valid and should be very much encouraged but people should not be going out of their way to make matches multiple squads against none by means of queue syncing. It's even easier to do in FW, so people are clearly purposely going out of their way so they can dominate pub games like this. That is simply not on and very poor gamemanship.
And you missed MY point entirely. There is no such thing as "pub matches" in this game universe. Everything is on a single shard and has an in game effect to the outcome of the game. "Pub Matches" are a mis-nomer. They are still technically a part of the EVE universe and have an effect to the overall MMO game, storyline, and history. There is no "battle arena" where the outcomes don't matter somewhere down the line. There is no "training room" where it won't matter if you die or not; win or not. This IS EVE Online and DUST 514, one universe where all the outcomes DO and WILL matter.
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
1819
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Posted - 2013.12.02 18:07:00 -
[67] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:Django Quik wrote:@Jadd - you seem to have missed my point entirely. I never said anything like don't allow squads in pub matches; my whole post is about not squad stacking in pub matches. Squad play is entirely valid and should be very much encouraged but people should not be going out of their way to make matches multiple squads against none by means of queue syncing. It's even easier to do in FW, so people are clearly purposely going out of their way so they can dominate pub games like this. That is simply not on and very poor gamemanship. And you missed MY point entirely. There is no such thing as "pub matches" in this game universe. Everything is on a single shard and has an in game effect to the outcome of the game. "Pub Matches" are a mis-nomer. They are still technically a part of the EVE universe and have an effect to the overall MMO game, storyline, and history. There is no "battle arena" where the outcomes don't matter somewhere down the line. There is no "training room" where it won't matter if you die or not; win or not. This IS EVE Online and DUST 514, one universe where all the outcomes DO and WILL matter. The whole one universe, one war stuff is great and all but it's simply not there in Dust yet. That is the real mis-nomer - pub matches have zero impact on Eve and New Eden. In Eve you have the different security zones that offer at least some protection to the lesser hardcore players if they so wish - there is no such thing in Dust and likely won't be for quite some time. So all I'm trying to do with this thread is encourage players to create our own version of sec space, relieving the Public Contracts from the terror of the squad stacking proto stomp because the game mechanics aren't in place to do it for us.
I understand the reservations of some and the points about pub matches being the only place with ambush and domination modes but at least when it comes to skirmish, for the sake of the game please don't squad stack there - there's just no need and you're more likely to come up against better opposition in FW anyway.
Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
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CrotchGrab 360
Commando Perkone Caldari State
390
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Posted - 2013.12.02 18:38:00 -
[68] - Quote
CONCORD TAX SERVICE wrote:If only we had some sort of gear/skillpoint level matchmaking. Or even a solo only gamemode. Just about anything is better than what we have now.
it needed to be implemented in the beginning when there was a player count to support it.
All this would do currently is create extremely long queue times. |
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