DUST Search - Please keep squad stacking and proto-stomping to FW

Baal Roo wrote:

There's 16 players on both teams dude, squad stacking doesn't change that simple fact.

Furthermore, if FW included all game modes you might have some sort of point, but it doesn't.

You're actually arguing that if you want to play with more than 5 of your friends you shouldn't be allowed to play ambush or domination? What does it matter? How is CCP's trash matchmaking the fault of the players? I'd say the people who are "stacking" with their 5+ friends are the people keeping the ******* game alive in the first place.

Regardless, the game isn't competitive, and playing the same couple of FW scenarios over and over again is boring as hell. If CCP doesn't want large groups of people playing the game modes together, then they need to put more checks in place to prevent it from happening.

I think you're simply blaming the symptoms of a bad game on the few people who are left playing it. It's not our fault queueing is trash, it's not our fault matchmaking blows, it's not our fault that the game is brutally unfair to new players, it's not our fault there aren't more game modes... all of those are CCP's fault. If you don't like people "stomping" then take it up with CCP, not the people who are actually here playing and supporting the game.

Hell, why is stomping a problem in the first place? Because the skill system is idiotic. If they'd fix the skill system so that you don't have to treat the game like a part time job for 3-6 months just to compete, none of this would be a problem.

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Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1779	Posted - 2013.11.27 20:55:00 - [1] - Quote Isn't that why we have FW contracts atm? We all have somewhere we can q sync and proto our hearts out; can we not just leave pub matches to the less overtly OP tactics? I keep seeing 8+ members of the same corps in ambushes, dominations and skirmishes and they absolutely crush the opposition, who more often than not has no organised squads. Sometimes I'm the enemy to these teams, sometimes I'm a teammate but regardless the matches are totally one-sided and redlines are boring. But I recognise that some people want to run max proto gear and run 7 or more players together and that's fine, you can do that no problem but please do it in FW. That way players who just want to run solo or small squads and the lower level players can have a slightly safer place to enjoy the game. Surely this is the best solution until we get actually working matchmaking? I know this is New Eden and all but until New Eden is working in a reasonable manner for all, can we please just try to behave reasonably ourselves? Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1780	Posted - 2013.11.27 21:03:00 - [2] - Quote Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote: Stomping is currently the quickest way to earn both ISK and SP. I don't blame the stompers as much as I blame the system. Totally understand that but there's no reason the stompers can't keep to a specific area like FW. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1781	Posted - 2013.11.27 21:26:00 - [3] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Ok, two problems with this. First, FW was not developed for that. FW was developed to support an NPC faction in the EVE universe and receive loyalty points from them. There are many corps/alliances that are not allied with any specific NPC faction and thus don't give a **** about them or fighting for them. Worse, some members of a corp may want the loyalty rewards from one faction while others may want another. But by fighting for anyone faction to build up standing with them, that player eventually precludes themselves from fighting for the opposing faction. Thus those corps will ONLY be able to squad up and participate as a corp in NON-FW matches when that occurs. Second, instead of restricting this behavior (squading and platooning up and encouraging players to actually cooperate in play) to just some fiction case that doesn't exist in the game. How about instead make it more readily available to all the random pubbies in the random matches? Then things become more even and both sides can enjoy the benefits of full cooperative gameplay rather then some e-honor system that will never exist. Firstly, the FW changes have not come in yet and we've not been given any date when it will do - though rumours point to 1.7 but we'll see. But currently you get no standings and no LP for playing FW, so it's the perfect place for people who want to play hardcore but have no access to PC. Secondly, "random pubbies" in "random matches" often don't know how to squad or otherwise don't want to squad up, which is equally their perogative. Also, just squading up does not necessarily even things up. 16 randoms in 3 squads still won't play in an organised manner, most will not have voice chat on and will still get demolished by 10 players from the same corp with 6 other randoms. Now I understand and agree that there are other things that can and should be done by the devs to alleviate the problems in pub matches but there are also these things that we as players can do until what needs to be done by CCP is done. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1781	Posted - 2013.11.27 21:28:00 - [4] - Quote Thanatus Sleep wrote: why? so nub ass BPO corp that can't pub stomp on FW can be safe in public contract. Hell no Can anyone translate this? I think it's agreeing with me but not entirely sure... Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1782	Posted - 2013.11.27 21:38:00 - [5] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Nope FW is about affecting the overwar. Sure you can Proto stomp...its gets you nothing when I am sticking a Templar ScR up your ass and taking those beautiful proto suits away from you. True, FW does affect the 'overwar' but until CCP gives us somewhere else we can play our hearts out, that's really all there is. And if these people who want to play this way don't want to affect the 'overwar' or take any particular faction's side, they can tick all the boxes and play for whoever's paying - afterall we are mercs, right? Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1782	Posted - 2013.11.27 21:41:00 - [6] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: No, stop doing threads like this. You are going to ruin my master plan! This game has to die before next Fall or I lose money! Sorry to break it to you but CCP is never going to let this game die. They're not the type of company to just throw in the towel when things aren't going well. They'll keep plugging away at this game until it is good and then they'll keep making it better and eventually one day we'll see that cool ad from fanfest 2013 showing on our tellyboxes! Dust isn't going away anytime mate. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1783	Posted - 2013.11.27 22:06:00 - [7] - Quote Kaughst wrote: Your ideas are very diluted. You should instead attempt to come up with a matchmaking algorithm while you are at it. There are many many matchmaking algorithms that could be used but the best would be an ELO system. The simplest would be to make sure that squads are always placed evenly on opposite sides - I don't understand how hard it can be to make this happen but squad stacking in pub matches should effectively be impossible because you'd always end up on opposite sides when you tried. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1787	Posted - 2013.11.27 23:25:00 - [8] - Quote @Jadd - you seem to have missed my point entirely. I never said anything like don't allow squads in pub matches; my whole post is about not squad stacking in pub matches. Squad play is entirely valid and should be very much encouraged but people should not be going out of their way to make matches multiple squads against none by means of queue syncing. It's even easier to do in FW, so people are clearly purposely going out of their way so they can dominate pub games like this. That is simply not on and very poor gamemanship. @True - honestly Im only suggesting FW currently because there's nowhere else to go and the game mechanics aren't there to facilitate matches for squad stacking or tiered gameplay. And this only really applies to those corps who are squad stacking pub games. They're bad places to practice for PC because every match is a stomping, so the only reason to stack squads in pubs is to stomp and ego boost, which is really quite sad. Go somewhere where you're more likely to face a challenge - i.e. FW. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1788	Posted - 2013.11.27 23:34:00 - [9] - Quote I've nade a suggestion thread for revamped corp contracts that could provide another way for people to have higher end matches with as many players as they like here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=123838&find=unread however, as i previously mentioned, it seems quite clear there people don't want decent competitive matches, so really the only solution is for matchmaking to prevent squad stacking being able to happen in pub matches full stop. Until then, the reasonable players here can stack FW and the unreasonable saddoes can just continue to stomp pubs. I hope your egos are full and souls empty. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1792	Posted - 2013.11.28 08:26:00 - [10] - Quote @abarkrishna - Here's a simple concept for you: the in-game description for pub matches says "for solo players and small squads". 8 - 12 players is not a small squad. i.e. take your big squads somewhere else. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.

Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1792	Posted - 2013.11.28 08:33:00 - [11] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: If they made FW team deployable I think it would clear up the issue. Team deploy with ISK and LP payouts in the future. It would solve the pub stomping issue and it would lead to a more vibrant PC because more corps would get better at team play. The ISK payouts in FW will eventually come in addition to LP because they will be AFK farmed to the max until then. Just as my signature says, they HAVE to reward WP and winning matches with higher payouts to increase incentives to win battles. Dust is stagnant because too many people either really, really suck at the game or they aren't trying to win matches because they earn more by doing less (not dying). Well that and no new content for a year (game modes). FW is already the easiest place to Q sync, yet you do still see certain corps doing it in pub games instead. People clearly only do it because they know they're less likely to come up against actual competition and so even when there is team deploy in FW, they'll still be q syncing pubs, if only to avoid other corp teams that they can't beat. I also don't think these people really care about the rewards - it's more an ego thing than wanting lots of isk or SP; afterall your SP is capped every week anyway and you only have to play 12 - 15 hours a week to reach it anyway. The best solution is for matchmaking to prevent uneven squad stacking in pub games but until then, we should all do what we can to avoid doing it. Sadly, this sort of reasoning will never have an impact on the types of people doing this. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1792	Posted - 2013.11.28 08:35:00 - [12] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Why is it so hard for people to just squad up? Stop running around by yourself trying to be Rambo and when you get stomped out in your one man squad you get mad? No. That is not what this is about. This is about squad stacking - it has no place in pub games. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1792	Posted - 2013.11.28 08:35:00 - [13] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: So basically you want to sweep the dirt under the rug. FW is not that rug. Sorry but there is no other place for it to go - pub games are not for squad stacking; that currently only leaves FW. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1792	Posted - 2013.11.28 21:35:00 - [14] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Django Quik wrote: Michael Arck wrote: So basically you want to sweep the dirt under the rug. FW is not that rug. Sorry but there is no other place for it to go - pub games are not for squad stacking; that currently only leaves FW. Who are you to say were a squad can stack and were a squad can not stack. I hear the redline is a safe place for you to go if you don't like fighting. Who am I? Someone reasonable who wants this game to succeed - sorry that that aim seems to be at odds with some people who just want to boost their own egos by dominating pub games with their 10 friends. And for anyone confused, squad stacking means more than one squad, so 7+ players from the same corp. Obviously running with your corp mates is great and should be encouraged but if you want to have more than one squad running together, do it in FW where you're more likely to have an actual challenge. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1795	Posted - 2013.11.29 08:30:00 - [15] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: There's 16 players on both teams dude, squad stacking doesn't change that simple fact. Furthermore, if FW included all game modes you might have some sort of point, but it doesn't. You're actually arguing that if you want to play with more than 5 of your friends you shouldn't be allowed to play ambush or domination? What does it matter? How is CCP's trash matchmaking the fault of the players? I'd say the people who are "stacking" with their 5+ friends are the people keeping the ******* game alive in the first place. Regardless, the game isn't competitive, and playing the same couple of FW scenarios over and over again is boring as hell. If CCP doesn't want large groups of people playing the game modes together, then they need to put more checks in place to prevent it from happening. I think you're simply blaming the symptoms of a bad game on the few people who are left playing it. It's not our fault queueing is trash, it's not our fault matchmaking blows, it's not our fault that the game is brutally unfair to new players, it's not our fault there aren't more game modes... all of those are CCP's fault. If you don't like people "stomping" then take it up with CCP, not the people who are actually here playing and supporting the game. Hell, why is stomping a problem in the first place? Because the skill system is idiotic. If they'd fix the skill system so that you don't have to treat the game like a part time job for 3-6 months just to compete, none of this would be a problem. Don't get me wrong - I understand that the cause of this is poor matchmaking and a simple change to make squads even or at most only a difference of 1 squad between the 2 sides would be the best solution. I'm not entirely blaming the players for the state of the game but there are things we can all do to make it better because CCP is taking their time over this. All I'm trying to do is alleviate the symptoms of the poor matchmaking by encouraging people to avoid making matches ridiculously unbalanced by stacking squads. If matchmaking gets fixed in the way we envisage, you won't be able to play with 5+ of your friends anyway because the other squad will almost always end up on the other side. Then you'll only be able to stack squads in FW, so what will you all do then? Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1819	Posted - 2013.12.02 18:07:00 - [16] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Django Quik wrote: @Jadd - you seem to have missed my point entirely. I never said anything like don't allow squads in pub matches; my whole post is about not squad stacking in pub matches. Squad play is entirely valid and should be very much encouraged but people should not be going out of their way to make matches multiple squads against none by means of queue syncing. It's even easier to do in FW, so people are clearly purposely going out of their way so they can dominate pub games like this. That is simply not on and very poor gamemanship. And you missed MY point entirely. There is no such thing as "pub matches" in this game universe. Everything is on a single shard and has an in game effect to the outcome of the game. "Pub Matches" are a mis-nomer. They are still technically a part of the EVE universe and have an effect to the overall MMO game, storyline, and history. There is no "battle arena" where the outcomes don't matter somewhere down the line. There is no "training room" where it won't matter if you die or not; win or not. This IS EVE Online and DUST 514, one universe where all the outcomes DO and WILL matter. The whole one universe, one war stuff is great and all but it's simply not there in Dust yet. That is the real mis-nomer - pub matches have zero impact on Eve and New Eden. In Eve you have the different security zones that offer at least some protection to the lesser hardcore players if they so wish - there is no such thing in Dust and likely won't be for quite some time. So all I'm trying to do with this thread is encourage players to create our own version of sec space, relieving the Public Contracts from the terror of the squad stacking proto stomp because the game mechanics aren't in place to do it for us. I understand the reservations of some and the points about pub matches being the only place with ambush and domination modes but at least when it comes to skirmish, for the sake of the game please don't squad stack there - there's just no need and you're more likely to come up against better opposition in FW anyway. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.