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AR no dispersion at range makes it "OP" (video proof!)

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I-Shayz-I I-----I 1445	Posted - 2013.11.25 17:59:00 - [1] - Quote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTEoWijPFvM Another AR thread? Really? YES. And this time there's nothing you can argue about. In this video I explain/prove: -Why the AR seems "OP" to most people -How the AR is able to kill players with lots of HP at long ranges simply by bursting to prevent kick -How the only balancing factor for the AR at range only comes in AFTER you have fired off 30 rounds or so. -How long it takes to kill a player at different ranges using both a STD and prototype AR. -How automatic weapons in other games are balanced for distance (i.e. actual dispersion) And much more! Why is there no dispersion? Who knows? Maybe it has something to do with the HMG issue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPBRYgUGBbw Why not make the AR kick from the second you start firing...just like the Assault Scrambler Rifle?: Obviously there are ways of fixing this issue, and this issue SHOULD be apparent to anyone playing this game, but I needed to make this video to finally get this into people's heads so that we can all be on the same page as to why the AR needs to be changed. If CCP does not see this as an issue, PLEASE TELL US WHY! Please explain to us how this mechanic is not breaking our game. Please tell us why you want the AR to be so effective at range like this. Is it a lore thing? Are you afraid of losing players if you change the one weapon most players use? Or are you guys just too oblivious to this situation that you needed me to spend hours making this video just to understand why we have been complaining about the AR for so long. _________________________________________ I'm not going to go into full detail here about everything, but let me just make a few things clear. Don't even start talking to me about TTK. Is the gun wasn't so accurate at range it would have a longer TTK and put it in line with the rest of the other weapons. I wish the AR wasn't an automatic sniper while ADS. The AR (Plasma Rifle) should dominate every other weapon at short ranges (Not close quarters, that's different). If you get into this range the AR should win very easily. At medium ranges it should be just as effective as it is when you hip-fire. ADS shouldn't mean taking away dispersion, it should just reduce the dispersion a bit while slowing your movement speed. If you crouch it should be even more accurate However, dispersion should not be eliminated when you ADS. This is one of the universal balancing factors for automatic weapons in every FPS. Single shot and burst rifles should be better at long ranges not because of optimal ranges...but because they are just more accurate and usually have some sort of sight. Let's not forget the other not so important factor of the reset when you let go of the trigger. If you're not familiar with this go watch the video I just posted. When you fire for a long period of time while ADS, the AR eventually starts kicking all over the place. If you let go of the fire button and press it again, the kick is gone and your sight is reset back to where you were aiming. There is hardly any kick for the first 15-20 rounds or so, which means you can hit a target with a full clip from 80+ meters simply by timing your trigger presses. _________________________________________ I hope I'm not the only one that thinks this way about this. Am I missing something here? Is this game supposed to have ARs that snipe across the map and HMGs that only do good damage at 30 meters to make it not like other FPS games? Is this problem something that can't be fixed easily? Is this issue not something that matters enough to be worked on, or something that is too big that it could break the balance of the game? I made this video and this post because I care about Dust. I want to see one day where every weapon feels just as balanced as the next, but in order to do that we need to fix the AR. Hopefully this helps everyone understand why. Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
Pvt Numnutz Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 315	Posted - 2013.11.25 18:04:00 - [2] - Quote Which ar? Come uprising 1.7 there will be 4, currently there are 2.
Zekain K Expert Intervention Caldari State 590	Posted - 2013.11.25 18:06:00 - [3] - Quote Who cares, even if this was fixed aim assist would negate your gun by pulling it back to the enemies center. *CALDARI MASTER RACE*
Cody Sietz Unkn0wn Killers Renegade Alliance 1566	Posted - 2013.11.25 18:07:00 - [4] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Which ar? Come uprising 1.7 there will be 4, currently there are 2. Probably talking bout the blaster rifle...I Uhhhh mean the Plasma rifle(damn democratic process) "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1445	Posted - 2013.11.25 18:07:00 - [5] - Quote Zekain K wrote: Who cares, even if this was fixed aim assist would negate your gun by pulling it back to the enemies center. Doesn't do it with the Assault Scrambler Rifle, and that actually has kick/dispersion. Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2251	Posted - 2013.11.25 18:10:00 - [6] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Which ar? Come uprising 1.7 there will be 4, currently there are 2. No those are rifles not assault rifles.
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 351	Posted - 2013.11.25 18:25:00 - [7] - Quote Zekain K wrote: Who cares, even if this was fixed aim assist would negate your gun by pulling it back to the enemies center. Actually, the aim assist isn't as bad in this game as it is in the likes of COD or BF. The AA in this game only gives you a slight nudge in the right direction. It's actually one of the more subtle AA systems I've seen in a game. Shayz, shall we do an AA test when compared to other games? :P 'Insert witty signature here'
Mdog 24158 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 26	Posted - 2013.11.25 18:41:00 - [8] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTEoWijPFvM Another AR thread? Really? YES. And this time there's nothing you can argue about. In this video I explain/prove: -Why the AR seems "OP" to most people -How the AR is able to kill players with lots of HP at long ranges simply by bursting to prevent kick -How the only balancing factor for the AR at range only comes in AFTER you have fired off 30 rounds or so. -How long it takes to kill a player at different ranges using both a STD and prototype AR. -How automatic weapons in other games are balanced for distance (i.e. actual dispersion) And much more! Why is there no dispersion? Who knows? Maybe it has something to do with the HMG issue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPBRYgUGBbw Why not make the AR kick from the second you start firing...just like the Assault Scrambler Rifle?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrVDPmIhkx8&feature=youtube_gdata Obviously there are ways of fixing this issue, and this issue SHOULD be apparent to anyone playing this game, but I needed to make this video to finally get this into people's heads so that we can all be on the same page as to why the AR needs to be changed. If CCP does not see this as an issue, PLEASE TELL US WHY! Please explain to us how this mechanic is not breaking our game. Please tell us why you want the AR to be so effective at range like this. Is it a lore thing? Are you afraid of losing players if you change the one weapon most players use? Or are you guys just too oblivious to this situation that you needed me to spend hours making this video just to understand why we have been complaining about the AR for so long. _________________________________________ I'm not going to go into full detail here about everything, but let me just make a few things clear. Don't even start talking to me about TTK. Is the gun wasn't so accurate at range it would have a longer TTK and put it in line with the rest of the other weapons. I wish the AR wasn't an automatic sniper while ADS. The AR (Plasma Rifle) should dominate every other weapon at short ranges (Not close quarters, that's different). If you get into this range the AR should win very easily. At medium ranges it should be just as effective as it is when you hip-fire. ADS shouldn't mean taking away dispersion, it should just reduce the dispersion a bit while slowing your movement speed. If you crouch it should be even more accurate However, dispersion should not be eliminated when you ADS. This is one of the universal balancing factors for automatic weapons in every FPS. Single shot and burst rifles should be better at long ranges not because of optimal ranges...but because they are just more accurate and usually have some sort of sight. Let's not forget the other not so important factor of the reset when you let go of the trigger. If you're not familiar with this go watch the video I just posted. When you fire for a long period of time while ADS, the AR eventually starts kicking all over the place. If you let go of the fire button and press it again, the kick is gone and your sight is reset back to where you were aiming. There is hardly any kick for the first 15-20 rounds or so, which means you can hit a target with a full clip from 80+ meters simply by timing your trigger presses. _________________________________________ I hope I'm not the only one that thinks this way about this. Am I missing something here? Is this game supposed to have ARs that snipe across the map and HMGs that only do good damage at 30 meters to make it not like other FPS games? Is this problem something that can't be fixed easily? Is this issue not something that matters enough to be worked on, or something that is too big that it could break the balance of the game? I made this video and this post because I care about Dust. I want to see one day where every weapon feels just as balanced as the next, but in order to do that we need to fix the AR. Hopefully this helps everyone understand why. Indeed the assult rifle is very precise it could use some more kick or dispersion. Flying derpships and scout shotgunning 24/7 quite fun i must say
Pvt Numnutz Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 317	Posted - 2013.11.25 18:50:00 - [9] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Which ar? Come uprising 1.7 there will be 4, currently there are 2. No those are rifles not assault rifles. The scrambler rifle is a single shot rifle, but doesn't it have a full auto assault variant? Same with the rail and combat rifles.
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 352	Posted - 2013.11.25 18:54:00 - [10] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Which ar? Come uprising 1.7 there will be 4, currently there are 2. Watch the video and it becomes pretty obvious... 'Insert witty signature here'

I-Shayz-I I-----I 1445	Posted - 2013.11.25 18:54:00 - [11] - Quote Melchiah ARANeAE wrote: Zekain K wrote: Who cares, even if this was fixed aim assist would negate your gun by pulling it back to the enemies center. Actually, the aim assist isn't as bad in this game as it is in the likes of COD or BF. The AA in this game only gives you a slight nudge in the right direction. It's actually one of the more subtle AA systems I've seen in a game. Shayz, shall we do an AA test when compared to other games? :P This was already done when AA was introduced. Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 564	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:04:00 - [12] - Quote theres no reason for the AR to go right back 2 its starting position after the kick SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED
RAMB0 Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:04:00 - [13] - Quote In the military they teach to fire in burst to reduce kick. I dont see anything wrong with the weapon. That is why the AR is the weapon of choice for all infantry in the world! Which weapon do you use? Let me guess, a mass driver a you expect to kill everyone with it?
lDocHollidayl Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 364	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:12:00 - [14] - Quote I actually think your video shows the gun in a good light. ADS and you hit with recoil affecting an longer ranges. After watching this some long range deaths I have had to some ARs seems more like luck and not cheap game mechanics. Looks good.
XEROO COOL Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 155	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:13:00 - [15] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTEoWijPFvM Another AR thread? Really? YES. And this time there's nothing you can argue about. In this video I explain/prove: -Why the AR seems "OP" to most people -How the AR is able to kill players with lots of HP at long ranges simply by bursting to prevent kick -How the only balancing factor for the AR at range only comes in AFTER you have fired off 30 rounds or so. -How long it takes to kill a player at different ranges using both a STD and prototype AR. -How automatic weapons in other games are balanced for distance (i.e. actual dispersion) And much more! Why is there no dispersion? Who knows? Maybe it has something to do with the HMG issue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPBRYgUGBbw Why not make the AR kick from the second you start firing...just like the Assault Scrambler Rifle?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrVDPmIhkx8&feature=youtube_gdata Obviously there are ways of fixing this issue, and this issue SHOULD be apparent to anyone playing this game, but I needed to make this video to finally get this into people's heads so that we can all be on the same page as to why the AR needs to be changed. If CCP does not see this as an issue, PLEASE TELL US WHY! Please explain to us how this mechanic is not breaking our game. Please tell us why you want the AR to be so effective at range like this. Is it a lore thing? Are you afraid of losing players if you change the one weapon most players use? Or are you guys just too oblivious to this situation that you needed me to spend hours making this video just to understand why we have been complaining about the AR for so long. _________________________________________ I'm not going to go into full detail here about everything, but let me just make a few things clear. Don't even start talking to me about TTK. If the gun wasn't so accurate at range it would have a longer TTK and put it in line with the rest of the other weapons. I wish the AR wasn't an automatic sniper while ADS. The AR (Plasma Rifle) should dominate every other weapon at short ranges (Not close quarters, that's different). If you get into this range the AR should win very easily. At medium ranges it should be just as effective as it is when you hip-fire. ADS shouldn't mean taking away dispersion, it should just reduce the dispersion a bit while slowing your movement speed. If you crouch it should be even more accurate However, dispersion should not be eliminated when you ADS. This is one of the universal balancing factors for automatic weapons in every FPS. Single shot and burst rifles should be better at long ranges not because of optimal ranges...but because they are just more accurate and usually have some sort of sight. Let's not forget the other not so important factor of the reset when you let go of the trigger. If you're not familiar with this go watch the video I just posted. When you fire for a long period of time while ADS, the AR eventually starts kicking all over the place. If you let go of the fire button and press it again, the kick is gone and your sight is reset back to where you were aiming. There is hardly any kick for the first 15-20 rounds or so, which means you can hit a target with a full clip from 80+ meters simply by timing your trigger presses. _________________________________________ I hope I'm not the only one that thinks this way about this. Am I missing something here? Is this game supposed to have ARs that snipe across the map and HMGs that only do good damage at 30 meters to make it not like other FPS games? Is this problem something that can't be fixed easily? Is this issue not something that matters enough to be worked on, or something that is too big that it could break the balance of the game? I made this video and this post because I care about Dust. I want to see one day where every weapon feels just as balanced as the next, but in order to do that we need to fix the AR. Hopefully this helps everyone understand why. Great post and video evidence. This needs a blue tag. Everyone has a plan until you punch em in the face! (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 352	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:15:00 - [16] - Quote RAMB0 wrote: In the military they teach to fire in burst to reduce kick. I dont see anything wrong with the weapon. That is why the AR is the weapon of choice for all infantry in the world! Which weapon do you use? Let me guess, a mass driver a you expect to kill everyone with it? You clearly didn't watch the video. It shows there is hardly any kick on the AR so bursting is hardly necessary. 'Insert witty signature here'
daishi mk03 BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion 409	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:15:00 - [17] - Quote Great video and thread. +1
Green Living 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 991	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:16:00 - [18] - Quote BUMP
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 809	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:32:00 - [19] - Quote A 60 round clip is actually the biggest problem I think. You can burst 6x with one clip before having to reload. By that time your enemy is long dead. They only drawback to the AR I can see is that you run short on ammo soon after about 10 kills.
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 352	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:34:00 - [20] - Quote lDocHollidayl wrote: I actually think your video shows the gun in a good light. ADS and you hit with recoil affecting an longer ranges. After watching this some long range deaths I have had to some ARs seems more like luck and not cheap game mechanics. Looks good. Bear in mind I was in a 1083 EHP heavy. So whilst it wasn't killing me at those ranges, it would still kill people with less health pretty easily at 50m. 'Insert witty signature here'

Pvt Numnutz Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 318	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:40:00 - [21] - Quote Melchiah ARANeAE wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Which ar? Come uprising 1.7 there will be 4, currently there are 2. Watch the video and it becomes pretty obvious... Meh, not gonna waste time with another Nerf ar thread. I hope people will differentiate between the different assault rifles in the future though. Otherwise it will be really confusing and I'll probably end up rage posting about my rail rifle when your talking about the duvolle.
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 352	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:47:00 - [22] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Melchiah ARANeAE wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Which ar? Come uprising 1.7 there will be 4, currently there are 2. Watch the video and it becomes pretty obvious... Meh, not gonna waste time with another Nerf ar thread. I hope people will differentiate between the different assault rifles in the future though. Otherwise it will be really confusing and I'll probably end up rage posting about my rail rifle when your talking about the duvolle. It's not really a 'nerf AR' thread as much as it is 'the AR has an issue with its aiming mechanics' thead. And the naming problem is entirely your own problem. When people mean the Scrambler, Combat or Rail rifle, they'll say Scrambler rifle, ScR, Combat rifle, CR, Rail rifle or RR. 'Insert witty signature here'
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 1376	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:51:00 - [23] - Quote FINALLY, someone that ******* gets it "Please don't" GÿåForum warrior lvl.1Gÿå
PEW JACKSON s i n g u l a r i t y 105	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:57:00 - [24] - Quote Is it possible to redo your test with Prof 5 + 3 dmg mods? I think that would shed some serious light on the TTK problem. +1 for the vid & thread
XEROO COOL Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 156	Posted - 2013.11.25 20:04:00 - [25] - Quote PEW JACKSON wrote: Is it possible to redo your test with Prof 5 + 3 dmg mods? I think that would shed some serious light on the TTK problem. +1 for the vid & thread I'll do it... jsut send me some SP. :-D Everyone has a plan until you punch em in the face! (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+
Justice Prevails 115	Posted - 2013.11.25 20:19:00 - [26] - Quote Don't care anymore. Just nerf it or whatever you gotta do. Once that's over with people will start coming after your weapon of choice. Rinse... repeat...til it comes back round again. Great job, team. Head back to the MCC for debriefing and cocktails.
Dimmu Borgir II Bannana Boat Corp Relentless Heroes Alliance 176	Posted - 2013.11.25 23:44:00 - [27] - Quote I got killed by a militia AR today from 72 metres with over 700 damage (don't remember exact amount) and I heard three shots hit me, it was probably .5 of a second ttk. I wish I'd taken a photo of the death screen... I'm almost positive that no-one else was shooting at me and, for the sake of argument, even if they were why would their damage be added to that of the militia AR users? I'm sick of being killed by three bullets from a basic AR .... from 72 metres ffs!!!
Meeko Fent Commando Perkone Caldari State 1680	Posted - 2013.11.26 00:02:00 - [28] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Zekain K wrote: Who cares, even if this was fixed aim assist would negate your gun by pulling it back to the enemies center. Doesn't do it with the Assault Scrambler Rifle, and that actually has kick/dispersion. Was about to say this. AA isn't that strong. But due to there being literally NO recoil/dispersion on our fully automatic sniper rifle we like to call an AR, the person behind the sticks, with the help AA gives, keeps it on target EASY. Refunding a few AUR militia Blueprints pertaining to vehicles because their respective modules will not exist anymore
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1529	Posted - 2013.11.26 00:04:00 - [29] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTEoWijPFvMthis time there's nothing you can argue about. Welcome to the internet sir, you must be new. Closed Beta Vet Reading the forums detracts from overall enjoyment of the game
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 979	Posted - 2013.11.26 00:14:00 - [30] - Quote 8213 wrote: A 60 round clip is actually the biggest problem I think. You can burst 6x with one clip before having to reload. By that time your enemy is long dead. They only drawback to the AR I can see is that you run short on ammo soon after about 10 kills. Pretty much every weapon has that 'drawback' though. After 10-12 kills, ammo supplies begin to run out. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered. BUFF PLASMA CANNON DIRECT DAMAGE

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kinsho Swords Caldari State 119	Posted - 2013.11.26 00:44:00 - [31] - Quote Why can't we just wait til all the variants are released and let CCP do the readjusting ???? I'm sure many will have a problem with the new rifles when they come out as well . Some might seem too overpowering and some might need a buff . Can it be fair to say that CCP is actually waiting until they can gauge the collective's feedback and then do all of the adjustments at once instead of going in partially only to go back in again ????? Yes it is a problem but you have to take in the core attributes into consideration as well . Marksmanship and Proficiency as well as the core skill play a big role in any weapons performance and that's part of the reason the HMG has such a problem . It needs more skills to balance it out . A lot of people talk about how taxing ( including myself in the past ) the skill tree is but it plays a role in balancing a weapon out , it's performance and it's precision . I think we need more skills for the HMG . I believe that we should wait til the rest of the weapons come out and see where CCP is going with their plans and not rush to judgment . Let's be real ... the AR has been getting slack from many for along time now and this needs to stop . All the cheep comments ( like AR 514 and such ) should go right out the window with the latest introduction of the newer rifles . Safe to say that you will see more of these , in the next three months than you see of the AR but people will always gravitate back to what they are familiar with , even more so if these newer weapons don't perform like the collective thinks that they should . Hell we have waited all of this time so to wait a few more months should be no problem if your a reasonable person . I just can't wait until the feedback come in from these newer rifles and until then we should wait and see . This will be proof of who has the real problem , CCP or the collective because let's face it ... some people will never be happy . I am not ready yet but I am working upon a way for all of us to come to the table to solve the matchmaking problem . This will take some time because I'm trying to make this well thought out so most of the work will be done already but I will need YOUR help so fashion your mental spears and be ready . DIE 1.7 DIE 1.7 DIE 1.7 DIE 1.7 DIE 1.7 DIE 1.7 DIE 1.7 DIE 1.7 DIE 1.7 DIE 1.7 DIE 1.7 DIE 1.7 DIE 1.7 DIE 1.7 DIE 1.7 DIE ALREADY !!!!!!!! " BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1457	Posted - 2013.11.26 02:02:00 - [32] - Quote PEW JACKSON wrote: Is it possible to redo your test with Prof 5 + 3 dmg mods? I think that would shed some serious light on the TTK problem. +1 for the vid & thread I was going to, but I wanted to prove that the TTK is already ridiculous with no skills into the weapon. I could kill a suit with 1100 ehp in two clips from 80 meters because of how accurate the gun is. If that's not a way to show an obvious problem I don't know what is. Also, by doing it with no skills, it makes it so that someone can do math (like me, eventually), and pump out some rough numbers. For instance, if I wanted to imagine it with 3 damage mods, I just add the extra damage percentage, etc to the number I already have. Unfortunately, I won't be able to do anything here soon because my recording device broke and I have to return it or replace a part. But at least I got all of this footage before something happened. Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1457	Posted - 2013.11.26 02:48:00 - [33] - Quote Bump Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 677	Posted - 2013.11.26 02:55:00 - [34] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: I wish the AR wasn't an automatic sniper while ADS. The AR (Plasma Rifle) should dominate every other weapon at short ranges (Not close quarters, that's different) Why should it dominate the shotgun, nova knives, and the HMG at CQC? Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 677	Posted - 2013.11.26 02:58:00 - [35] - Quote Ignore this, never mind Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
PEW JACKSON s i n g u l a r i t y 105	Posted - 2013.11.26 03:05:00 - [36] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: I was going to, but I wanted to prove that the TTK is already ridiculous with no skills into the weapon. I could kill a suit with 1100 ehp in two clips from 80 meters because of how accurate the gun is. If that's not a way to show an obvious problem I don't know what is. Also, by doing it with no skills, it makes it so that someone can do math (like me, eventually), and pump out some rough numbers. For instance, if I wanted to imagine it with 3 damage mods, I just add the extra damage percentage, etc to the number I already have. Unfortunately, I won't be able to do anything here soon because my recording device broke and I have to return it or replace a part. But at least I got all of this footage before something happened. Ahh I understand, it just would have been a nice vid to show people who say the AR isn't OP. Especially when aimed at Heavies & Scouts.
negative49er Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 340	Posted - 2013.11.26 03:09:00 - [37] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Which ar? Come uprising 1.7 there will be 4, currently there are 2. No those are rifles not assault rifles. The scrambler rifle is a single shot rifle, but doesn't it have a full auto assault variant? Same with the rail and combat rifles. there is one the Carthum assault scrambler rifle I use everything
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1460	Posted - 2013.11.26 03:10:00 - [38] - Quote PEW JACKSON wrote: Ahh I understand, it just would have been a nice vid to show people who say the AR isn't OP. Especially when aimed at Heavies & Scouts. I actually have a video on my channel of me taking a huge amount of damage quickly by an AR. It's called "Hit Detection Improvement?" on my channel. Link in my signature (logistics videos) Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 683	Posted - 2013.11.26 03:47:00 - [39] - Quote Wow, dude. you are like one of the most amazing ppl around here. You've done more developing after a few hours of work on this video than most devs have done in a year. I tip my cap to you. +1, dear sir. Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1463	Posted - 2013.11.26 06:46:00 - [40] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: Wow, dude. you are like one of the most amazing ppl around here. You've done more developing after a few hours of work on this video than most devs have done in a year. I tip my cap to you. +1, dear sir. I've been wanting to do something like this for a long time, and I finally got the time and money to start recording so I did it. Took maybe 20 hours total for the whole process of planning, recording, editing, saving, uploading, and posting. I was up literally all night in order to get the first part done...then fell asleep and woke up ready to finish it. Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!

Johnny Guilt 366	Posted - 2013.11.26 07:01:00 - [41] - Quote just make the AR like the bulleye in the resistance series just not like the one in 3 that ones too similar to the current AR
Subject 36 The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 16	Posted - 2013.11.26 08:49:00 - [42] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTEoWijPFvM Another AR thread? Really? YES. And this time there's nothing you can argue about. In this video I explain/prove: -Why the AR seems "OP" to most people -How the AR is able to kill players with lots of HP at long ranges simply by bursting to prevent kick -How the only balancing factor for the AR at range only comes in AFTER you have fired off 30 rounds or so. -How long it takes to kill a player at different ranges using both a STD and prototype AR. -How automatic weapons in other games are balanced for distance (i.e. actual dispersion) And much more! Why is there no dispersion? Who knows? Maybe it has something to do with the HMG issue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPBRYgUGBbw Why not make the AR kick from the second you start firing...just like the Assault Scrambler Rifle?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrVDPmIhkx8&feature=youtube_gdata Obviously there are ways of fixing this issue, and this issue SHOULD be apparent to anyone playing this game, but I needed to make this video to finally get this into people's heads so that we can all be on the same page as to why the AR needs to be changed. If CCP does not see this as an issue, PLEASE TELL US WHY! Please explain to us how this mechanic is not breaking our game. Please tell us why you want the AR to be so effective at range like this. Is it a lore thing? Are you afraid of losing players if you change the one weapon most players use? Or are you guys just too oblivious to this situation that you needed me to spend hours making this video just to understand why we have been complaining about the AR for so long. _________________________________________ I'm not going to go into full detail here about everything, but let me just make a few things clear. Don't even start talking to me about TTK. If the gun wasn't so accurate at range it would have a longer TTK and put it in line with the rest of the other weapons. I wish the AR wasn't an automatic sniper while ADS. The AR (Plasma Rifle) should dominate every other weapon at short ranges (Not close quarters, that's different). If you get into this range the AR should win very easily. At medium ranges it should be just as effective as it is when you hip-fire. ADS shouldn't mean taking away dispersion, it should just reduce the dispersion a bit while slowing your movement speed. If you crouch it should be even more accurate However, dispersion should not be eliminated when you ADS. This is one of the universal balancing factors for automatic weapons in every FPS. Single shot and burst rifles should be better at long ranges not because of optimal ranges...but because they are just more accurate and usually have some sort of sight. Let's not forget the other not so important factor of the reset when you let go of the trigger. If you're not familiar with this go watch the video I just posted. When you fire for a long period of time while ADS, the AR eventually starts kicking all over the place. If you let go of the fire button and press it again, the kick is gone and your sight is reset back to where you were aiming. There is hardly any kick for the first 15-20 rounds or so, which means you can hit a target with a full clip from 80+ meters simply by timing your trigger presses. _________________________________________ I hope I'm not the only one that thinks this way about this. Am I missing something here? Is this game supposed to have ARs that snipe across the map and HMGs that only do good damage at 30 meters to make it not like other FPS games? Is this problem something that can't be fixed easily? Is this issue not something that matters enough to be worked on, or something that is too big that it could break the balance of the game? I made this video and this post because I care about Dust. I want to see one day where every weapon feels just as balanced as the next, but in order to do that we need to fix the AR. Hopefully this helps everyone understand why. Good Video :D but did you have any damage mods, proficiency level, assault rifle level? These things matter to. And if you did have them I think people would have liked to known you had these things. Great video nonetheless :D *The Logi That Saves.* *#Re-Spec*
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 610	Posted - 2013.11.26 09:23:00 - [43] - Quote This is great work Shayz. It seems like CCP needs pictures to really understand that a problem exists in their game. Hopefully your work can shed some light on the problems in Dust with full auto weapons. KDR > ALL ME > KDR ME > ALL
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 173	Posted - 2013.11.26 10:59:00 - [44] - Quote wow yea 2 things i noticed 1) well outside their optimal the reduction in damage can be accounted for almost entirely by efficiency falloff round misses are almost negligible 2) weapon reticles in dust do not reflect the spray of the bullets, not a fan its like they are trying to hide the true acuracy of the weapon, I don't know I wish they would fix that.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 617	Posted - 2013.11.26 11:03:00 - [45] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: [BUG] Turbo controller being able to avoid recoil from assault rifle - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?find=unread&g=posts&t=121423 Status: Will be fixed in 1.8. Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1534469#post1534469 Thanks CCP! KDR > ALL ME > KDR ME > ALL
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 173	Posted - 2013.11.26 11:05:00 - [46] - Quote also they need to fix the instant dispersion and kick recover, hell get a decent modded controller set it to pulse off then on every 15 rounds and you have an perfectly accurate AR ADS or not, at maybe a 1rpm reduction from full auto.
Midas Fool T.R.I.A.D 223	Posted - 2013.11.26 11:05:00 - [47] - Quote This was already 100% obvious to any player with any sort of experience. Morons who don't exactly understand the issue force the community to demean it to QQing, and abusers of this mechanic are fully aware of the entire situation but it's not in their best interest to bring it up. Good videos and good thread OP. Just as all of the other broken weapons in the past I personally don't mind if i gets corrected or not but a little bit more dispersion or falloff will save a few of my suits from Duvolle sniping. For best results press R1 repeatedly. Consult your doctor if your erection persists for more than four hours.
DEZKA DIABLO Commando Perkone Caldari State 81	Posted - 2013.11.26 14:25:00 - [48] - Quote That's on a 1000 plus heavy, do I vid with a 300 HP proto scout from 30 to 60 m running to see how fast it drops at ridiculous ranges
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1464	Posted - 2013.11.26 19:37:00 - [49] - Quote Subject 36 wrote: Good Video :D but did you have any damage mods, proficiency level, assault rifle level? These things matter to. And if you did have them I think people would have liked to known you had these things. Great video nonetheless :D Oh yeah, I forgot to mention it in the OP. No damage mods. I have Assault Rifle 3, Sharpshooter 2. I only have AR 4 to show what a duvolle would do, and for the other variants if I want to test those later (I used an Aurum variant), and sharpshooter 2 because I figured most players would have at least level 3 or 4. I can then calculate damage mods and proficiency on top of whatever values I got later on. But I proved in my video that you don't even need damage mods to do well with the Assault Rifle at almost any range. Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1464	Posted - 2013.11.26 19:41:00 - [50] - Quote -snip- Whoops Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!

Smooth Assassin Stardust incorporation 384	Posted - 2013.11.26 20:03:00 - [51] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Which ar? Come uprising 1.7 there will be 4, currently there are 2. 3 including laser *Assassination is my thing.*
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1465	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:51:00 - [52] - Quote DEZKA DIABLO wrote: That's on a 1000 plus heavy, do I vid with a 300 HP proto scout from 30 to 60 m running to see how fast it drops at ridiculous ranges Just divide values in the video by 3 lol Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1467	Posted - 2013.11.27 03:04:00 - [53] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: [BUG] Turbo controller being able to avoid recoil from assault rifle - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?find=unread&g=posts&t=121423 Status: Will be fixed in 1.8. Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1534469#post1534469 Thanks CCP! Oh this is nice. I didn't even notice they updated the weekly feedback/bugs thing Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1467	Posted - 2013.11.27 08:14:00 - [54] - Quote I'm officially making this an important topic and adding it to my list. Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
Mia Romani Nexus Marines 63	Posted - 2013.11.27 12:48:00 - [55] - Quote XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO wrote: theres no reason for the AR to go right back 2 its starting position after the kick I think this is a huge part of what's going on here, letting go of the trigger should not instantly reset your aim back to where you started. Interstellar Crossroads
Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 260	Posted - 2013.11.27 13:19:00 - [56] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO wrote: theres no reason for the AR to go right back 2 its starting position after the kick I think this is a huge part of what's going on here, letting go of the trigger should not instantly reset your aim back to where you started. Unfortunately that's not an issue if you burst fire. I agree though that if the muzzle moves that it shouldn't return to it's original point on the trigger being released. I-Shayz-I wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: [BUG] Turbo controller being able to avoid recoil from assault rifle - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?find=unread&g=posts&t=121423 Status: Will be fixed in 1.8. Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1534469#post1534469 Thanks CCP! Oh this is nice. I didn't even notice they updated the weekly feedback/bugs thing I'm actually worried a bit by CCP's post. They need to add proper muzzle lift/jump per round fired for all applicable weapons, but their statement makes it sound like they are just approaching from the Turbo controller issue. As many have known for a long time, the Turbo controller or macro programmable mouse can be used to abuse the single fire weapons, but anybody with a regular DS3 or mouse can burst fire full auto ARs for pin point accuracy. Hopefully CCP are looking at the big picture rather than zoomed in on the Turbo controllers. And don't get me wrong! Burst fire is an important part of using non mounted full auto weapons in most FPS games, but there should be an actual challenge to it than what it is now. Mid to long range fire should be only accurate if the user is firing in 2-3 round bursts, not the joke it is now. Good vid Shayz.
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1470	Posted - 2013.11.27 13:53:00 - [57] - Quote Oxskull Duncarino wrote: And don't get me wrong! Burst fire is an important part of using non mounted full auto weapons in most FPS games, but there should be an actual challenge to it than what it is now. Mid to long range fire should be only accurate if the user is firing in 2-3 round bursts, not the joke it is now. Good vid Shayz. I hope so too. The sad part is that the Assault Scrambler Rifle already has a proper kick mechanic that prevents players from doing this...yet they haven't applied it to the AR. Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 260	Posted - 2013.11.28 00:01:00 - [58] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Oxskull Duncarino wrote: And don't get me wrong! Burst fire is an important part of using non mounted full auto weapons in most FPS games, but there should be an actual challenge to it than what it is now. Mid to long range fire should be only accurate if the user is firing in 2-3 round bursts, not the joke it is now. Good vid Shayz. I hope so too. The sad part is that the Assault Scrambler Rifle already has a proper kick mechanic that prevents players from doing this...yet they haven't applied it to the AR. Haha, if I was as sour as some people here I'd say that's because this is AR514, but I'm going with too much work and too few hands always has plans fall between the cracks. Yeh, considering they got a turbo controller for themselves before they balanced the tac AR, I'm at a loss as to why they didn't try it with other weapons to see what'd happen, or if they did, why they thought it was ok. Ah, whatever, I'll stick to my view from above, and bide my time for the fixes
Mortedeamor WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 895	Posted - 2013.11.28 00:42:00 - [59] - Quote yeah aiming down the sights should not take away the kick of the gun ..it actually does this on all weapons...for smg..this is also what makes smg a bit overpowered. if you do the same thing with an smg (AIM) there is 0 kick..actually smg has less kick than the ar while aiming..i also think the lack of kick through aiming is what is making the hmg so ineffective good video shayz
Mortedeamor WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 895	Posted - 2013.11.28 00:46:00 - [60] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Why not make the AR kick from the second you start firing...just like the Assault Scrambler Rifle?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrVDPmIhkx8&feature=youtube_gdata because if they did that ar would require skill and the qq would be legendary..bluebies wouldnt have they're crutch anymore

Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1029	Posted - 2013.11.28 01:07:00 - [61] - Quote I instinctively "burst" the Assault Rifle. My RoF is probably around 710-720 still and I have no recoil or kick whatsoever. It doesn't matter if they are 5m or 60m away, they will die given enough time. A Duvolle with Proficiency 5 and 2 Complex Damage Modifiers deals 640 DPS. At around 60m you hit 50% efficacy. You can kill a fully tanked proto at 60m, then, in three seconds, if all shots land. The problem is with the "if all shots land" part happening 95% of the time. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1481	Posted - 2013.11.28 03:40:00 - [62] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: The problem is with the "if all shots land" part happening 95% of the time. Exactly. I don't mind the AR doing a ton of damage at close range, but being able to land a full clip into someone at 80 meters is just wrong. Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1491	Posted - 2013.11.30 07:47:00 - [63] - Quote Still Relevant Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!
Saoa Scum Judge Mercenaries 25	Posted - 2013.11.30 10:53:00 - [64] - Quote Spot on, think adding kick would solve alot of issues... TTK, Shield tanking, Hmg, Smg.. Add kick and then lets "rebalance" if still needed..
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 292	Posted - 2013.11.30 11:33:00 - [65] - Quote The standard (plasma) AR has an absurdly short range compared to the other assault rifles (ScR, soon CR and RR) and similar DPS (though much lower than ScR). The lack of kick is the only thing that means it is even close to competitive. If CCP want to balance the assault-class rifles they should look at the ScR. Assuming similiarly skilled users, the ScR dominates the AR both at range and close up.
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1506	Posted - 2013.12.01 15:47:00 - [66] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: The standard (plasma) AR has an absurdly short range compared to the other assault rifles (ScR, soon CR and RR) and similar DPS (though much lower than ScR). The lack of kick is the only thing that means it is even close to competitive. If CCP want to balance the assault-class rifles they should look at the ScR. Assuming similiarly skilled users, the ScR dominates the AR both at range and close up. The SR thing will be fixed with 1.7 as it is getting a large range buff...meaning that it will be less effective at close range due to the way that damage drops off the farther you get from optimal. But yes, the AR is meant to be a short range weapon. It's supposed to dominate at the short ranges, while being ineffective at long ranges. Normally this is solved by adding dispersion but dust only has kick for the AR while ADS...except that the kick doesn't take effect until after you've fired off enough rounds to kill someone. Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1518	Posted - 2013.12.03 13:57:00 - [67] - Quote More bumping cause 1.7 Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 377	Posted - 2013.12.03 16:16:00 - [68] - Quote The aScR doesnt have kick.......it stays exactly where it is pointed in that video. The AR has more vertical recoil than the aScR by far. The aSCR looks to have more dispersion, but you cant actually see the AR bullets as well as the aScRs. I dont doubt the AR needs more dispersion, but to say the aScR has kick is a lie. Play battlefield and then come back and tell me that any of the weapons in this game have "kick" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8Ld4S0OaUg#t=20 PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Twitch
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 371	Posted - 2013.12.03 16:42:00 - [69] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Zekain K wrote: Who cares, even if this was fixed aim assist would negate your gun by pulling it back to the enemies center. Doesn't do it with the Assault Scrambler Rifle, and that actually has kick/dispersion. Facepalm
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1520	Posted - 2013.12.03 17:05:00 - [70] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: The aScR doesnt have kick.......it stays exactly where it is pointed in that video. The AR has more vertical recoil than the aScR by far. The aSCR looks to have more dispersion, but you cant actually see the AR bullets as well as the aScRs. I dont doubt the AR needs more dispersion, but to say the aScR has kick is a lie. Play battlefield and then come back and tell me that any of the weapons in this game have "kick" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8Ld4S0OaUg#t=20 Sure, compared to other games the weapons don't really have proper kick/recoil mechanics... but at long ranges the ASCR has enough kick to prevent players from trying to use it past 50 meters. The AR doesn't have any sort of kick at all for the first 15 rounds, so you can easily hit someone at 80 meters away with all 60 rounds. Because the ASCR actually has some "kick", the only way you can be that accurate0 with the weapon is by firing single shots with it. Also, let me explain something to you. The AR and ASCR have no "dispersion" while ADS. Instead they have "kick" which shifts the sight every so slightly around. This is the only thing balancing the weaons at range...and yet the AR kick/recoil is broken. Barrel climb is what you showed me in that video which the AR does have, but only after 30 rounds or so, and can be reset simply by letting go of the trigger (yet another problem). The ASCR doesn't have this because we're playing a game in the future, and it shoots lasers (compare it to the laser rifle which doesn't have any of these). Either way, the whole point of this thread was to prove that the AR has no dispersion. The only reason I mention "kick" is because it's the easiest way to explain things and because it is the easiest way to fix the weapon. The ASCR is balanced because it has that slight kick to it...whereas the AR is not balanced because it can shoot with sniper accuracy even at 80 meters. If both weapons had dispersion that would be wonderful but seeing as how the HMG still has dispersion issues I don't see a fix like that any time soon. Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!

I-Shayz-I I-----I 1532	Posted - 2013.12.05 16:08:00 - [71] - Quote Bethhy wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: Zekain K wrote: Who cares, even if this was fixed aim assist would negate your gun by pulling it back to the enemies center. Doesn't do it with the Assault Scrambler Rifle, and that actually has kick/dispersion. Facepalm Did you even watch my video on it? The kick on the weapon prevents it from always aiming at one point. It creates randomness, which is very much needed. Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!


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