DUST Search - AR no dispersion at range makes it "OP" (video proof!)

I-Shayz-I wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTEoWijPFvM

Another AR thread? Really?

YES. And this time there's nothing you can argue about. In this video I explain/prove:

-Why the AR seems "OP" to most people
-How the AR is able to kill players with lots of HP at long ranges simply by bursting to prevent kick
-How the only balancing factor for the AR at range only comes in AFTER you have fired off 30 rounds or so.
-How long it takes to kill a player at different ranges using both a STD and prototype AR.
-How automatic weapons in other games are balanced for distance (i.e. actual dispersion)

And much more!

Why is there no dispersion? Who knows? Maybe it has something to do with the HMG issue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPBRYgUGBbw
Why not make the AR kick from the second you start firing...just like the Assault Scrambler Rifle?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrVDPmIhkx8&feature=youtube_gdata

Obviously there are ways of fixing this issue, and this issue SHOULD be apparent to anyone playing this game, but I needed to make this video to finally get this into people's heads so that we can all be on the same page as to why the AR needs to be changed.

If CCP does not see this as an issue, PLEASE TELL US WHY! Please explain to us how this mechanic is not breaking our game. Please tell us why you want the AR to be so effective at range like this. Is it a lore thing? Are you afraid of losing players if you change the one weapon most players use? Or are you guys just too oblivious to this situation that you needed me to spend hours making this video just to understand why we have been complaining about the AR for so long.
_________________________________________

I'm not going to go into full detail here about everything, but let me just make a few things clear.

Don't even start talking to me about TTK. Is the gun wasn't so accurate at range it would have a longer TTK and put it in line with the rest of the other weapons.

I wish the AR wasn't an automatic sniper while ADS. The AR (Plasma Rifle) should dominate every other weapon at short ranges (Not close quarters, that's different). If you get into this range the AR should win very easily. At medium ranges it should be just as effective as it is when you hip-fire. ADS shouldn't mean taking away dispersion, it should just reduce the dispersion a bit while slowing your movement speed. If you crouch it should be even more accurate

However, dispersion should not be eliminated when you ADS. This is one of the universal balancing factors for automatic weapons in every FPS. Single shot and burst rifles should be better at long ranges not because of optimal ranges...but because they are just more accurate and usually have some sort of sight.

Let's not forget the other not so important factor of the reset when you let go of the trigger. If you're not familiar with this go watch the video I just posted. When you fire for a long period of time while ADS, the AR eventually starts kicking all over the place. If you let go of the fire button and press it again, the kick is gone and your sight is reset back to where you were aiming. There is hardly any kick for the first 15-20 rounds or so, which means you can hit a target with a full clip from 80+ meters simply by timing your trigger presses.
_________________________________________

I hope I'm not the only one that thinks this way about this. Am I missing something here? Is this game supposed to have ARs that snipe across the map and HMGs that only do good damage at 30 meters to make it not like other FPS games? Is this problem something that can't be fixed easily? Is this issue not something that matters enough to be worked on, or something that is too big that it could break the balance of the game?

I made this video and this post because I care about Dust. I want to see one day where every weapon feels just as balanced as the next, but in order to do that we need to fix the AR. Hopefully this helps everyone understand why.

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I-Shayz-I I-----I 1445	Posted - 2013.11.25 17:59:00 - [1] - Quote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTEoWijPFvM Another AR thread? Really? YES. And this time there's nothing you can argue about. In this video I explain/prove: -Why the AR seems "OP" to most people -How the AR is able to kill players with lots of HP at long ranges simply by bursting to prevent kick -How the only balancing factor for the AR at range only comes in AFTER you have fired off 30 rounds or so. -How long it takes to kill a player at different ranges using both a STD and prototype AR. -How automatic weapons in other games are balanced for distance (i.e. actual dispersion) And much more! Why is there no dispersion? Who knows? Maybe it has something to do with the HMG issue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPBRYgUGBbw Why not make the AR kick from the second you start firing...just like the Assault Scrambler Rifle?: Obviously there are ways of fixing this issue, and this issue SHOULD be apparent to anyone playing this game, but I needed to make this video to finally get this into people's heads so that we can all be on the same page as to why the AR needs to be changed. If CCP does not see this as an issue, PLEASE TELL US WHY! Please explain to us how this mechanic is not breaking our game. Please tell us why you want the AR to be so effective at range like this. Is it a lore thing? Are you afraid of losing players if you change the one weapon most players use? Or are you guys just too oblivious to this situation that you needed me to spend hours making this video just to understand why we have been complaining about the AR for so long. _________________________________________ I'm not going to go into full detail here about everything, but let me just make a few things clear. Don't even start talking to me about TTK. Is the gun wasn't so accurate at range it would have a longer TTK and put it in line with the rest of the other weapons. I wish the AR wasn't an automatic sniper while ADS. The AR (Plasma Rifle) should dominate every other weapon at short ranges (Not close quarters, that's different). If you get into this range the AR should win very easily. At medium ranges it should be just as effective as it is when you hip-fire. ADS shouldn't mean taking away dispersion, it should just reduce the dispersion a bit while slowing your movement speed. If you crouch it should be even more accurate However, dispersion should not be eliminated when you ADS. This is one of the universal balancing factors for automatic weapons in every FPS. Single shot and burst rifles should be better at long ranges not because of optimal ranges...but because they are just more accurate and usually have some sort of sight. Let's not forget the other not so important factor of the reset when you let go of the trigger. If you're not familiar with this go watch the video I just posted. When you fire for a long period of time while ADS, the AR eventually starts kicking all over the place. If you let go of the fire button and press it again, the kick is gone and your sight is reset back to where you were aiming. There is hardly any kick for the first 15-20 rounds or so, which means you can hit a target with a full clip from 80+ meters simply by timing your trigger presses. _________________________________________ I hope I'm not the only one that thinks this way about this. Am I missing something here? Is this game supposed to have ARs that snipe across the map and HMGs that only do good damage at 30 meters to make it not like other FPS games? Is this problem something that can't be fixed easily? Is this issue not something that matters enough to be worked on, or something that is too big that it could break the balance of the game? I made this video and this post because I care about Dust. I want to see one day where every weapon feels just as balanced as the next, but in order to do that we need to fix the AR. Hopefully this helps everyone understand why. Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
Pvt Numnutz Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 315	Posted - 2013.11.25 18:04:00 - [2] - Quote Which ar? Come uprising 1.7 there will be 4, currently there are 2.
Zekain K Expert Intervention Caldari State 590	Posted - 2013.11.25 18:06:00 - [3] - Quote Who cares, even if this was fixed aim assist would negate your gun by pulling it back to the enemies center. *CALDARI MASTER RACE*
Cody Sietz Unkn0wn Killers Renegade Alliance 1566	Posted - 2013.11.25 18:07:00 - [4] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Which ar? Come uprising 1.7 there will be 4, currently there are 2. Probably talking bout the blaster rifle...I Uhhhh mean the Plasma rifle(damn democratic process) "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1445	Posted - 2013.11.25 18:07:00 - [5] - Quote Zekain K wrote: Who cares, even if this was fixed aim assist would negate your gun by pulling it back to the enemies center. Doesn't do it with the Assault Scrambler Rifle, and that actually has kick/dispersion. Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2251	Posted - 2013.11.25 18:10:00 - [6] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Which ar? Come uprising 1.7 there will be 4, currently there are 2. No those are rifles not assault rifles.
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 351	Posted - 2013.11.25 18:25:00 - [7] - Quote Zekain K wrote: Who cares, even if this was fixed aim assist would negate your gun by pulling it back to the enemies center. Actually, the aim assist isn't as bad in this game as it is in the likes of COD or BF. The AA in this game only gives you a slight nudge in the right direction. It's actually one of the more subtle AA systems I've seen in a game. Shayz, shall we do an AA test when compared to other games? :P 'Insert witty signature here'
Mdog 24158 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 26	Posted - 2013.11.25 18:41:00 - [8] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTEoWijPFvM Another AR thread? Really? YES. And this time there's nothing you can argue about. In this video I explain/prove: -Why the AR seems "OP" to most people -How the AR is able to kill players with lots of HP at long ranges simply by bursting to prevent kick -How the only balancing factor for the AR at range only comes in AFTER you have fired off 30 rounds or so. -How long it takes to kill a player at different ranges using both a STD and prototype AR. -How automatic weapons in other games are balanced for distance (i.e. actual dispersion) And much more! Why is there no dispersion? Who knows? Maybe it has something to do with the HMG issue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPBRYgUGBbw Why not make the AR kick from the second you start firing...just like the Assault Scrambler Rifle?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrVDPmIhkx8&feature=youtube_gdata Obviously there are ways of fixing this issue, and this issue SHOULD be apparent to anyone playing this game, but I needed to make this video to finally get this into people's heads so that we can all be on the same page as to why the AR needs to be changed. If CCP does not see this as an issue, PLEASE TELL US WHY! Please explain to us how this mechanic is not breaking our game. Please tell us why you want the AR to be so effective at range like this. Is it a lore thing? Are you afraid of losing players if you change the one weapon most players use? Or are you guys just too oblivious to this situation that you needed me to spend hours making this video just to understand why we have been complaining about the AR for so long. _________________________________________ I'm not going to go into full detail here about everything, but let me just make a few things clear. Don't even start talking to me about TTK. Is the gun wasn't so accurate at range it would have a longer TTK and put it in line with the rest of the other weapons. I wish the AR wasn't an automatic sniper while ADS. The AR (Plasma Rifle) should dominate every other weapon at short ranges (Not close quarters, that's different). If you get into this range the AR should win very easily. At medium ranges it should be just as effective as it is when you hip-fire. ADS shouldn't mean taking away dispersion, it should just reduce the dispersion a bit while slowing your movement speed. If you crouch it should be even more accurate However, dispersion should not be eliminated when you ADS. This is one of the universal balancing factors for automatic weapons in every FPS. Single shot and burst rifles should be better at long ranges not because of optimal ranges...but because they are just more accurate and usually have some sort of sight. Let's not forget the other not so important factor of the reset when you let go of the trigger. If you're not familiar with this go watch the video I just posted. When you fire for a long period of time while ADS, the AR eventually starts kicking all over the place. If you let go of the fire button and press it again, the kick is gone and your sight is reset back to where you were aiming. There is hardly any kick for the first 15-20 rounds or so, which means you can hit a target with a full clip from 80+ meters simply by timing your trigger presses. _________________________________________ I hope I'm not the only one that thinks this way about this. Am I missing something here? Is this game supposed to have ARs that snipe across the map and HMGs that only do good damage at 30 meters to make it not like other FPS games? Is this problem something that can't be fixed easily? Is this issue not something that matters enough to be worked on, or something that is too big that it could break the balance of the game? I made this video and this post because I care about Dust. I want to see one day where every weapon feels just as balanced as the next, but in order to do that we need to fix the AR. Hopefully this helps everyone understand why. Indeed the assult rifle is very precise it could use some more kick or dispersion. Flying derpships and scout shotgunning 24/7 quite fun i must say
Pvt Numnutz Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 317	Posted - 2013.11.25 18:50:00 - [9] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Which ar? Come uprising 1.7 there will be 4, currently there are 2. No those are rifles not assault rifles. The scrambler rifle is a single shot rifle, but doesn't it have a full auto assault variant? Same with the rail and combat rifles.
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 352	Posted - 2013.11.25 18:54:00 - [10] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Which ar? Come uprising 1.7 there will be 4, currently there are 2. Watch the video and it becomes pretty obvious... 'Insert witty signature here'

I-Shayz-I I-----I 1445	Posted - 2013.11.25 18:54:00 - [11] - Quote Melchiah ARANeAE wrote: Zekain K wrote: Who cares, even if this was fixed aim assist would negate your gun by pulling it back to the enemies center. Actually, the aim assist isn't as bad in this game as it is in the likes of COD or BF. The AA in this game only gives you a slight nudge in the right direction. It's actually one of the more subtle AA systems I've seen in a game. Shayz, shall we do an AA test when compared to other games? :P This was already done when AA was introduced. Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 564	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:04:00 - [12] - Quote theres no reason for the AR to go right back 2 its starting position after the kick SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED
RAMB0 Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:04:00 - [13] - Quote In the military they teach to fire in burst to reduce kick. I dont see anything wrong with the weapon. That is why the AR is the weapon of choice for all infantry in the world! Which weapon do you use? Let me guess, a mass driver a you expect to kill everyone with it?
lDocHollidayl Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 364	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:12:00 - [14] - Quote I actually think your video shows the gun in a good light. ADS and you hit with recoil affecting an longer ranges. After watching this some long range deaths I have had to some ARs seems more like luck and not cheap game mechanics. Looks good.
XEROO COOL Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 155	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:13:00 - [15] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTEoWijPFvM Another AR thread? Really? YES. And this time there's nothing you can argue about. In this video I explain/prove: -Why the AR seems "OP" to most people -How the AR is able to kill players with lots of HP at long ranges simply by bursting to prevent kick -How the only balancing factor for the AR at range only comes in AFTER you have fired off 30 rounds or so. -How long it takes to kill a player at different ranges using both a STD and prototype AR. -How automatic weapons in other games are balanced for distance (i.e. actual dispersion) And much more! Why is there no dispersion? Who knows? Maybe it has something to do with the HMG issue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPBRYgUGBbw Why not make the AR kick from the second you start firing...just like the Assault Scrambler Rifle?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrVDPmIhkx8&feature=youtube_gdata Obviously there are ways of fixing this issue, and this issue SHOULD be apparent to anyone playing this game, but I needed to make this video to finally get this into people's heads so that we can all be on the same page as to why the AR needs to be changed. If CCP does not see this as an issue, PLEASE TELL US WHY! Please explain to us how this mechanic is not breaking our game. Please tell us why you want the AR to be so effective at range like this. Is it a lore thing? Are you afraid of losing players if you change the one weapon most players use? Or are you guys just too oblivious to this situation that you needed me to spend hours making this video just to understand why we have been complaining about the AR for so long. _________________________________________ I'm not going to go into full detail here about everything, but let me just make a few things clear. Don't even start talking to me about TTK. If the gun wasn't so accurate at range it would have a longer TTK and put it in line with the rest of the other weapons. I wish the AR wasn't an automatic sniper while ADS. The AR (Plasma Rifle) should dominate every other weapon at short ranges (Not close quarters, that's different). If you get into this range the AR should win very easily. At medium ranges it should be just as effective as it is when you hip-fire. ADS shouldn't mean taking away dispersion, it should just reduce the dispersion a bit while slowing your movement speed. If you crouch it should be even more accurate However, dispersion should not be eliminated when you ADS. This is one of the universal balancing factors for automatic weapons in every FPS. Single shot and burst rifles should be better at long ranges not because of optimal ranges...but because they are just more accurate and usually have some sort of sight. Let's not forget the other not so important factor of the reset when you let go of the trigger. If you're not familiar with this go watch the video I just posted. When you fire for a long period of time while ADS, the AR eventually starts kicking all over the place. If you let go of the fire button and press it again, the kick is gone and your sight is reset back to where you were aiming. There is hardly any kick for the first 15-20 rounds or so, which means you can hit a target with a full clip from 80+ meters simply by timing your trigger presses. _________________________________________ I hope I'm not the only one that thinks this way about this. Am I missing something here? Is this game supposed to have ARs that snipe across the map and HMGs that only do good damage at 30 meters to make it not like other FPS games? Is this problem something that can't be fixed easily? Is this issue not something that matters enough to be worked on, or something that is too big that it could break the balance of the game? I made this video and this post because I care about Dust. I want to see one day where every weapon feels just as balanced as the next, but in order to do that we need to fix the AR. Hopefully this helps everyone understand why. Great post and video evidence. This needs a blue tag. Everyone has a plan until you punch em in the face! (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 352	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:15:00 - [16] - Quote RAMB0 wrote: In the military they teach to fire in burst to reduce kick. I dont see anything wrong with the weapon. That is why the AR is the weapon of choice for all infantry in the world! Which weapon do you use? Let me guess, a mass driver a you expect to kill everyone with it? You clearly didn't watch the video. It shows there is hardly any kick on the AR so bursting is hardly necessary. 'Insert witty signature here'
daishi mk03 BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion 409	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:15:00 - [17] - Quote Great video and thread. +1
Green Living 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 991	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:16:00 - [18] - Quote BUMP
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 809	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:32:00 - [19] - Quote A 60 round clip is actually the biggest problem I think. You can burst 6x with one clip before having to reload. By that time your enemy is long dead. They only drawback to the AR I can see is that you run short on ammo soon after about 10 kills.
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 352	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:34:00 - [20] - Quote lDocHollidayl wrote: I actually think your video shows the gun in a good light. ADS and you hit with recoil affecting an longer ranges. After watching this some long range deaths I have had to some ARs seems more like luck and not cheap game mechanics. Looks good. Bear in mind I was in a 1083 EHP heavy. So whilst it wasn't killing me at those ranges, it would still kill people with less health pretty easily at 50m. 'Insert witty signature here'

Pvt Numnutz Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 318	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:40:00 - [21] - Quote Melchiah ARANeAE wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Which ar? Come uprising 1.7 there will be 4, currently there are 2. Watch the video and it becomes pretty obvious... Meh, not gonna waste time with another Nerf ar thread. I hope people will differentiate between the different assault rifles in the future though. Otherwise it will be really confusing and I'll probably end up rage posting about my rail rifle when your talking about the duvolle.
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 352	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:47:00 - [22] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Melchiah ARANeAE wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Which ar? Come uprising 1.7 there will be 4, currently there are 2. Watch the video and it becomes pretty obvious... Meh, not gonna waste time with another Nerf ar thread. I hope people will differentiate between the different assault rifles in the future though. Otherwise it will be really confusing and I'll probably end up rage posting about my rail rifle when your talking about the duvolle. It's not really a 'nerf AR' thread as much as it is 'the AR has an issue with its aiming mechanics' thead. And the naming problem is entirely your own problem. When people mean the Scrambler, Combat or Rail rifle, they'll say Scrambler rifle, ScR, Combat rifle, CR, Rail rifle or RR. 'Insert witty signature here'
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 1376	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:51:00 - [23] - Quote FINALLY, someone that ******* gets it "Please don't" GÿåForum warrior lvl.1Gÿå
PEW JACKSON s i n g u l a r i t y 105	Posted - 2013.11.25 19:57:00 - [24] - Quote Is it possible to redo your test with Prof 5 + 3 dmg mods? I think that would shed some serious light on the TTK problem. +1 for the vid & thread
XEROO COOL Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 156	Posted - 2013.11.25 20:04:00 - [25] - Quote PEW JACKSON wrote: Is it possible to redo your test with Prof 5 + 3 dmg mods? I think that would shed some serious light on the TTK problem. +1 for the vid & thread I'll do it... jsut send me some SP. :-D Everyone has a plan until you punch em in the face! (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+
Justice Prevails 115	Posted - 2013.11.25 20:19:00 - [26] - Quote Don't care anymore. Just nerf it or whatever you gotta do. Once that's over with people will start coming after your weapon of choice. Rinse... repeat...til it comes back round again. Great job, team. Head back to the MCC for debriefing and cocktails.
Dimmu Borgir II Bannana Boat Corp Relentless Heroes Alliance 176	Posted - 2013.11.25 23:44:00 - [27] - Quote I got killed by a militia AR today from 72 metres with over 700 damage (don't remember exact amount) and I heard three shots hit me, it was probably .5 of a second ttk. I wish I'd taken a photo of the death screen... I'm almost positive that no-one else was shooting at me and, for the sake of argument, even if they were why would their damage be added to that of the militia AR users? I'm sick of being killed by three bullets from a basic AR .... from 72 metres ffs!!!
Meeko Fent Commando Perkone Caldari State 1680	Posted - 2013.11.26 00:02:00 - [28] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Zekain K wrote: Who cares, even if this was fixed aim assist would negate your gun by pulling it back to the enemies center. Doesn't do it with the Assault Scrambler Rifle, and that actually has kick/dispersion. Was about to say this. AA isn't that strong. But due to there being literally NO recoil/dispersion on our fully automatic sniper rifle we like to call an AR, the person behind the sticks, with the help AA gives, keeps it on target EASY. Refunding a few AUR militia Blueprints pertaining to vehicles because their respective modules will not exist anymore
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1529	Posted - 2013.11.26 00:04:00 - [29] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTEoWijPFvMthis time there's nothing you can argue about. Welcome to the internet sir, you must be new. Closed Beta Vet Reading the forums detracts from overall enjoyment of the game
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 979	Posted - 2013.11.26 00:14:00 - [30] - Quote 8213 wrote: A 60 round clip is actually the biggest problem I think. You can burst 6x with one clip before having to reload. By that time your enemy is long dead. They only drawback to the AR I can see is that you run short on ammo soon after about 10 kills. Pretty much every weapon has that 'drawback' though. After 10-12 kills, ammo supplies begin to run out. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered. BUFF PLASMA CANNON DIRECT DAMAGE



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