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AR no dispersion at range makes it "OP" (video proof!)

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I-Shayz-I I-----I 1445	Posted - 2013.11.25 17:59:00 - [1] - Quote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTEoWijPFvM Another AR thread? Really? YES. And this time there's nothing you can argue about. In this video I explain/prove: -Why the AR seems "OP" to most people -How the AR is able to kill players with lots of HP at long ranges simply by bursting to prevent kick -How the only balancing factor for the AR at range only comes in AFTER you have fired off 30 rounds or so. -How long it takes to kill a player at different ranges using both a STD and prototype AR. -How automatic weapons in other games are balanced for distance (i.e. actual dispersion) And much more! Why is there no dispersion? Who knows? Maybe it has something to do with the HMG issue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPBRYgUGBbw Why not make the AR kick from the second you start firing...just like the Assault Scrambler Rifle?: Obviously there are ways of fixing this issue, and this issue SHOULD be apparent to anyone playing this game, but I needed to make this video to finally get this into people's heads so that we can all be on the same page as to why the AR needs to be changed. If CCP does not see this as an issue, PLEASE TELL US WHY! Please explain to us how this mechanic is not breaking our game. Please tell us why you want the AR to be so effective at range like this. Is it a lore thing? Are you afraid of losing players if you change the one weapon most players use? Or are you guys just too oblivious to this situation that you needed me to spend hours making this video just to understand why we have been complaining about the AR for so long. _________________________________________ I'm not going to go into full detail here about everything, but let me just make a few things clear. Don't even start talking to me about TTK. Is the gun wasn't so accurate at range it would have a longer TTK and put it in line with the rest of the other weapons. I wish the AR wasn't an automatic sniper while ADS. The AR (Plasma Rifle) should dominate every other weapon at short ranges (Not close quarters, that's different). If you get into this range the AR should win very easily. At medium ranges it should be just as effective as it is when you hip-fire. ADS shouldn't mean taking away dispersion, it should just reduce the dispersion a bit while slowing your movement speed. If you crouch it should be even more accurate However, dispersion should not be eliminated when you ADS. This is one of the universal balancing factors for automatic weapons in every FPS. Single shot and burst rifles should be better at long ranges not because of optimal ranges...but because they are just more accurate and usually have some sort of sight. Let's not forget the other not so important factor of the reset when you let go of the trigger. If you're not familiar with this go watch the video I just posted. When you fire for a long period of time while ADS, the AR eventually starts kicking all over the place. If you let go of the fire button and press it again, the kick is gone and your sight is reset back to where you were aiming. There is hardly any kick for the first 15-20 rounds or so, which means you can hit a target with a full clip from 80+ meters simply by timing your trigger presses. _________________________________________ I hope I'm not the only one that thinks this way about this. Am I missing something here? Is this game supposed to have ARs that snipe across the map and HMGs that only do good damage at 30 meters to make it not like other FPS games? Is this problem something that can't be fixed easily? Is this issue not something that matters enough to be worked on, or something that is too big that it could break the balance of the game? I made this video and this post because I care about Dust. I want to see one day where every weapon feels just as balanced as the next, but in order to do that we need to fix the AR. Hopefully this helps everyone understand why. Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1445	Posted - 2013.11.25 18:07:00 - [2] - Quote Zekain K wrote: Who cares, even if this was fixed aim assist would negate your gun by pulling it back to the enemies center. Doesn't do it with the Assault Scrambler Rifle, and that actually has kick/dispersion. Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1445	Posted - 2013.11.25 18:54:00 - [3] - Quote Melchiah ARANeAE wrote: Zekain K wrote: Who cares, even if this was fixed aim assist would negate your gun by pulling it back to the enemies center. Actually, the aim assist isn't as bad in this game as it is in the likes of COD or BF. The AA in this game only gives you a slight nudge in the right direction. It's actually one of the more subtle AA systems I've seen in a game. Shayz, shall we do an AA test when compared to other games? :P This was already done when AA was introduced. Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1457	Posted - 2013.11.26 02:02:00 - [4] - Quote PEW JACKSON wrote: Is it possible to redo your test with Prof 5 + 3 dmg mods? I think that would shed some serious light on the TTK problem. +1 for the vid & thread I was going to, but I wanted to prove that the TTK is already ridiculous with no skills into the weapon. I could kill a suit with 1100 ehp in two clips from 80 meters because of how accurate the gun is. If that's not a way to show an obvious problem I don't know what is. Also, by doing it with no skills, it makes it so that someone can do math (like me, eventually), and pump out some rough numbers. For instance, if I wanted to imagine it with 3 damage mods, I just add the extra damage percentage, etc to the number I already have. Unfortunately, I won't be able to do anything here soon because my recording device broke and I have to return it or replace a part. But at least I got all of this footage before something happened. Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1457	Posted - 2013.11.26 02:48:00 - [5] - Quote Bump Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1460	Posted - 2013.11.26 03:10:00 - [6] - Quote PEW JACKSON wrote: Ahh I understand, it just would have been a nice vid to show people who say the AR isn't OP. Especially when aimed at Heavies & Scouts. I actually have a video on my channel of me taking a huge amount of damage quickly by an AR. It's called "Hit Detection Improvement?" on my channel. Link in my signature (logistics videos) Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1463	Posted - 2013.11.26 06:46:00 - [7] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: Wow, dude. you are like one of the most amazing ppl around here. You've done more developing after a few hours of work on this video than most devs have done in a year. I tip my cap to you. +1, dear sir. I've been wanting to do something like this for a long time, and I finally got the time and money to start recording so I did it. Took maybe 20 hours total for the whole process of planning, recording, editing, saving, uploading, and posting. I was up literally all night in order to get the first part done...then fell asleep and woke up ready to finish it. Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1464	Posted - 2013.11.26 19:37:00 - [8] - Quote Subject 36 wrote: Good Video :D but did you have any damage mods, proficiency level, assault rifle level? These things matter to. And if you did have them I think people would have liked to known you had these things. Great video nonetheless :D Oh yeah, I forgot to mention it in the OP. No damage mods. I have Assault Rifle 3, Sharpshooter 2. I only have AR 4 to show what a duvolle would do, and for the other variants if I want to test those later (I used an Aurum variant), and sharpshooter 2 because I figured most players would have at least level 3 or 4. I can then calculate damage mods and proficiency on top of whatever values I got later on. But I proved in my video that you don't even need damage mods to do well with the Assault Rifle at almost any range. Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1464	Posted - 2013.11.26 19:41:00 - [9] - Quote -snip- Whoops Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1465	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:51:00 - [10] - Quote DEZKA DIABLO wrote: That's on a 1000 plus heavy, do I vid with a 300 HP proto scout from 30 to 60 m running to see how fast it drops at ridiculous ranges Just divide values in the video by 3 lol Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!

I-Shayz-I I-----I 1467	Posted - 2013.11.27 03:04:00 - [11] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: [BUG] Turbo controller being able to avoid recoil from assault rifle - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?find=unread&g=posts&t=121423 Status: Will be fixed in 1.8. Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1534469#post1534469 Thanks CCP! Oh this is nice. I didn't even notice they updated the weekly feedback/bugs thing Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1467	Posted - 2013.11.27 08:14:00 - [12] - Quote I'm officially making this an important topic and adding it to my list. Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1470	Posted - 2013.11.27 13:53:00 - [13] - Quote Oxskull Duncarino wrote: And don't get me wrong! Burst fire is an important part of using non mounted full auto weapons in most FPS games, but there should be an actual challenge to it than what it is now. Mid to long range fire should be only accurate if the user is firing in 2-3 round bursts, not the joke it is now. Good vid Shayz. I hope so too. The sad part is that the Assault Scrambler Rifle already has a proper kick mechanic that prevents players from doing this...yet they haven't applied it to the AR. Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1481	Posted - 2013.11.28 03:40:00 - [14] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: The problem is with the "if all shots land" part happening 95% of the time. Exactly. I don't mind the AR doing a ton of damage at close range, but being able to land a full clip into someone at 80 meters is just wrong. Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1491	Posted - 2013.11.30 07:47:00 - [15] - Quote Still Relevant Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1506	Posted - 2013.12.01 15:47:00 - [16] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: The standard (plasma) AR has an absurdly short range compared to the other assault rifles (ScR, soon CR and RR) and similar DPS (though much lower than ScR). The lack of kick is the only thing that means it is even close to competitive. If CCP want to balance the assault-class rifles they should look at the ScR. Assuming similiarly skilled users, the ScR dominates the AR both at range and close up. The SR thing will be fixed with 1.7 as it is getting a large range buff...meaning that it will be less effective at close range due to the way that damage drops off the farther you get from optimal. But yes, the AR is meant to be a short range weapon. It's supposed to dominate at the short ranges, while being ineffective at long ranges. Normally this is solved by adding dispersion but dust only has kick for the AR while ADS...except that the kick doesn't take effect until after you've fired off enough rounds to kill someone. Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1518	Posted - 2013.12.03 13:57:00 - [17] - Quote More bumping cause 1.7 Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1520	Posted - 2013.12.03 17:05:00 - [18] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: The aScR doesnt have kick.......it stays exactly where it is pointed in that video. The AR has more vertical recoil than the aScR by far. The aSCR looks to have more dispersion, but you cant actually see the AR bullets as well as the aScRs. I dont doubt the AR needs more dispersion, but to say the aScR has kick is a lie. Play battlefield and then come back and tell me that any of the weapons in this game have "kick" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8Ld4S0OaUg#t=20 Sure, compared to other games the weapons don't really have proper kick/recoil mechanics... but at long ranges the ASCR has enough kick to prevent players from trying to use it past 50 meters. The AR doesn't have any sort of kick at all for the first 15 rounds, so you can easily hit someone at 80 meters away with all 60 rounds. Because the ASCR actually has some "kick", the only way you can be that accurate0 with the weapon is by firing single shots with it. Also, let me explain something to you. The AR and ASCR have no "dispersion" while ADS. Instead they have "kick" which shifts the sight every so slightly around. This is the only thing balancing the weaons at range...and yet the AR kick/recoil is broken. Barrel climb is what you showed me in that video which the AR does have, but only after 30 rounds or so, and can be reset simply by letting go of the trigger (yet another problem). The ASCR doesn't have this because we're playing a game in the future, and it shoots lasers (compare it to the laser rifle which doesn't have any of these). Either way, the whole point of this thread was to prove that the AR has no dispersion. The only reason I mention "kick" is because it's the easiest way to explain things and because it is the easiest way to fix the weapon. The ASCR is balanced because it has that slight kick to it...whereas the AR is not balanced because it can shoot with sniper accuracy even at 80 meters. If both weapons had dispersion that would be wonderful but seeing as how the HMG still has dispersion issues I don't see a fix like that any time soon. Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1532	Posted - 2013.12.05 16:08:00 - [19] - Quote Bethhy wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: Zekain K wrote: Who cares, even if this was fixed aim assist would negate your gun by pulling it back to the enemies center. Doesn't do it with the Assault Scrambler Rifle, and that actually has kick/dispersion. Facepalm Did you even watch my video on it? The kick on the weapon prevents it from always aiming at one point. It creates randomness, which is very much needed. Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!

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