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Why teamwork to kill vehicles is a bad idea.

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THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 565	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:07:00 - [1] - Quote No name calling-just simple reality here. So theres of course the whole scaling factor for 3 AV to kill a tank means 6 tanks requires more players than a team has whatever, then tankers usually respond focus AV then move on to next target whatever. Simple reality to this is- Yes through combined AV they will devastate tank after tank so long as the tanks team is made of scrubs and only that- bad tanks, tanks shy away from blue infantry, blues suck and don't hunt AVers, blue are losing. Unfortunately the well fitted tanks that do have a competent team that isn't locked down in a firefight, will completely steamroll the enemy even if there whole team spawns with AV, tanker kills a few, retreats, waits for AV to get massacred, repeats, pubstomp. both of these scenarios happen all the time. As a result good tankers just pull out there tanks during pubstomps, and go 40/0 easily. The simple truth is it already takes multiple AV to kill a single tank- but only well fit ones. An appropriately fitted maddy takes 10 IAFG(prof5, 2 damage mods) shots in a row to kill an armor upgrades level 5(10% base resistance) 120mm poly plate with a heavy repper & 3 active hardeners.(2 hardeners 180mm plate pg exp is inferior to this fit). Now that 10 shots require about 40(rough guess) or so seconds to get off in row(perfect scenario, which is common because of rooftops) During this time it is sometimes impossible to get to cover, if the AVer waited to get you into a good spot, but nonetheless, simply hopping out and recalling your tank during the 10 shots is EXTREMELY easy. Now we have in most games however, the reason the tank dieing, being to about 2 or so proto AVers and a MLT swarm or 2 all at once, considering the AVers are forgers, this means both wouldn't need to reload, and the explosive vs armor damage is glitched letting those mlt swarms do a bit of damage. As a result, the time to kill is lowered to only about 10 or 15 seconds, which translate to this scenario so commonly- Tanker: oh had some MLT swarms hit me, whatever, hit reppers, oh sht i got hit by something strong-where is he?! OH F** LOTSA DAMAGE RUN RUN! backs up for 3 seconds BOOM* tanker rage. So multiple AV is the reason tanks die 95% of the time, but soloing good tanks is ridiculously hard already UNTIL you get a tower overwatch and you can then hit them w/ EZmode AV, but a good tank w/ recalling means no kill for you. Now heres the reason however extremely tough tanks are a bad idea IMO(opinion sure,but based off experience)- Remember the charybdis? Despite being able to run over a whole team easily, no one really pulled out AV to kill it. The reason being that it was(is) so ridiculously hard to kill, that it wasn't worth it, why pull out AV and get slaughtered over & over when you wouldn't even be able to kill it? Thats how it was(is). You can compare this to a dropship, where the moment its seen or gets a kill, everyone and their momma pulls out a forge, why? EZkill. The one saving grace about this, is that a smaller reason people didn't pull out AV was because it was difficult to hit the charybdis at all with a FG, let alone enough to kill it, however with a tank its still easy to hit it consistently. So there ya go! I'd like to close saying I don't really care if tanks become OP, cus CCP will just nerf them anyways. Also I didn't talk about swarms much because of the explosive weapon damage being glitched. As well as them becoming undisputedly useless potato cannons next patch. And if all AV becomes as bad as swarms and plasma cannons ill just use a proto rail on an MLT tank on a hill as an AV weapon so... Ya, this thread was all about truth and what really happens in game, not about numbers, but just about what happens day to day. Theres so much i still couldn't say but the threads long enough.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 128	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:10:00 - [2] - Quote 2 tanks max per team, problem solved. now AV quit your QQ and wait for mods to be on cooldown, only good vehicle users will survive on cooldown TLDR srry will read recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 660	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:12:00 - [3] - Quote Nice one sided view Now how about how in 1.7 a tank will cost around 20 mil SP to max out and how they'll still cost boatloads of money. Now lets look at how much SP and isk a well fitted FG costs. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
VAHZZ 296	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:13:00 - [4] - Quote Right....team work is a bad idea...riiiiiiiiight. krillin voice HEY GUYS, I'M GOING SOLO AGAINST AN ARMADA....krillin pwn count infinite The merc with a mouth - beware of random bouts of insanity! ~ Proud Sniper Scout
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 128	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:13:00 - [5] - Quote btw nothing will stop pubstomps, they happen all the time without tanks btw tankers rage because there is no escape recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Vitharr Foebane Blood Money Mercenaries 259	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:14:00 - [6] - Quote Meh don't care either way Breach FG FTW How to make a Heavy Laser: 1.Take laser 2.Make it REALLY BIG 3.Give it to the heavy sobbing quietly in the corner.
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 565	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:15:00 - [7] - Quote TL;DR- the title is answered in the second to last paragraph, but the rest is stuff anyone involved with tanks or AV should know, explaining why sometimes tanks are OP and sometimes AV is OP, whether you can know that and claim tanks to be generally OP or UP is entirely your opinion, but not fact. If i were to call tanks OP it'd be entirely opinion and no fact, same as if i were to call them UP.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 128	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:16:00 - [8] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Meh don't care either way OP Breach FG FTW cuz i newb on tower fixed recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 38	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:17:00 - [9] - Quote Message from Godin: What do you know? The only thing you people knows is FOTM.
Mr Machine Guns Nyain San Renegade Alliance 161	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:17:00 - [10] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: TL;DR- the title is answered in the second to last paragraph, but the rest is stuff anyone involved with tanks or AV should know, explaining why sometimes tanks are OP and sometimes AV is OP, whether you can know that and claim tanks to be generally OP or UP is entirely your opinion, but not fact. If i were to call tanks OP it'd be entirely opinion and no fact, same as if i were to call them UP. no if so said tanks were either OP or Up they would just find a way to insult Nyain San and completely disregard you statement

THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 566	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:19:00 - [11] - Quote i have this feeling that most of the people above me read about a paragraph. Oh wait, people always post on a long thread without reading it and then discredit all logic and insert their own, silly me- thats forums 101.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 129	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:20:00 - [12] - Quote oh btw, EVERYONE and thier mother has poto av so we need to balance around adv and proto recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 566	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:20:00 - [13] - Quote Mr Machine Guns wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: TL;DR- the title is answered in the second to last paragraph, but the rest is stuff anyone involved with tanks or AV should know, explaining why sometimes tanks are OP and sometimes AV is OP, whether you can know that and claim tanks to be generally OP or UP is entirely your opinion, but not fact. If i were to call tanks OP it'd be entirely opinion and no fact, same as if i were to call them UP. no if so said tanks were either OP or Up they would just find a way to insult Nyain San and completely disregard you statement LOOOL the guy right above you completely proved your point.
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 662	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:21:00 - [14] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: i have this feeling that most of the people above me read about a paragraph. Oh wait, people always post on a long thread without reading it and then discredit all logic and insert their own, silly me- thats forums 101. Give hard math, non situational or ancedontal evidence and list it all in a clear, prefurably bullet point like manner or using a spreadsheet. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2981	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:21:00 - [15] - Quote Reads post Sees corp tag laughs hysterically
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 129	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:25:00 - [16] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Reads post Sees corp tag laughs hysterically aren't they the anti-tank? or anti-vehicle? recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Mr Machine Guns Nyain San Renegade Alliance 161	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:26:00 - [17] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Reads post Sees corp tag laughs hysterically aren't they the anti-tank? or anti-vehicle? what?
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 566	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:26:00 - [18] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: i have this feeling that most of the people above me read about a paragraph. Oh wait, people always post on a long thread without reading it and then discredit all logic and insert their own, silly me- thats forums 101. Give hard math, non situational or ancedontal evidence and list it all in a clear, prefurably bullet point like manner or using a spreadsheet. I gave math and the situations i presented happen 95% of the time. Please gtfo if you can't realise that because you're either retard3d, or not involved with AV or tanks much.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 129	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:27:00 - [19] - Quote Mr Machine Guns wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Reads post Sees corp tag laughs hysterically aren't they the anti-tank? or anti-vehicle? what? like the opposite of jesus, anti-tank, they AV and qq about every time a vehicle kills them. recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Mr Machine Guns Nyain San Renegade Alliance 161	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:28:00 - [20] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Mr Machine Guns wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Reads post Sees corp tag laughs hysterically aren't they the anti-tank? or anti-vehicle? what? like the opposite of jesus, anti-tank, they AV and qq about every time a vehicle kills them. we have some great tankers in our corp

Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 664	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:30:00 - [21] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: i have this feeling that most of the people above me read about a paragraph. Oh wait, people always post on a long thread without reading it and then discredit all logic and insert their own, silly me- thats forums 101. Give hard math, non situational or ancedontal evidence and list it all in a clear, prefurably bullet point like manner or using a spreadsheet. I gave math and the situations i presented happen 95% of the time. Please gtfo if you can't realise that because you're either retard3d, or not involved with AV or tanks much. oh please Pothead, being so hypocritical already? Thought there was no name calling. I'd also like to point out, because you saying its 95% of the time, doesnt make it so. Thats what situational evidence is. You cant call something a fact off of situational evidence, thats akin to someone on LDS saying "The walls are melting and thats a fact". Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 129	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:31:00 - [22] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: i have this feeling that most of the people above me read about a paragraph. Oh wait, people always post on a long thread without reading it and then discredit all logic and insert their own, silly me- thats forums 101. Give hard math, non situational or ancedontal evidence and list it all in a clear, prefurably bullet point like manner or using a spreadsheet. I gave math and the situations i presented happen 95% of the time. Please gtfo if you can't realise that because you're either retard3d, or not involved with AV or tanks much. heres what happens when going against decent players tank getw a kill or 2 they spawn in with proto AV they insta pop tank with proto broken forge gun or proto swarms, no wonder the proto AV is in prototype stage, they're not tested but they're broken and need fixing recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 209	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:31:00 - [23] - Quote BUT BUT BUT i kill charbys all the damn time, and i dont even have swarms or forge guns, or lai dai's i also steal charbys all the time, using my own car i can pin them in, hop out and shoot them in the face (my most common and favorite method. or i bait them into remote explosives / proxies (second most common method, as even if you dont kill it, yull launch it a bit and its probably going to hit something and stop... at wich point you shoot him in the face) ram it to death and my personal advice.... look both ways before you cross teh street and the damn thing wont be able to hit you. now that ive debunked what you called your own personal reason for believing yoru statement is true. im going to somewhat agree with you. game balance isnt about "such and such shoudl take 3 people to take down", thats just stupid, as one good player will always be able to do the same things as 3 crappy ones. nobody ever referances the abilitys of the players they are using for this measurement, as theres a huge difference between 3 blueberrys and 3 seasoned vets (even if they are both using the exact same gear) now i do disagree that teamwork to kill things is bad, as i believe teamwork is KEY to everything, the answer to anti-proto is teamwork, the answer to anti-vehicle is teamwork, the answer to everything in the game is in fact teamwork. i believe the only thing that matter is weather or not CCP sees the type of gameplay they intended to have, or are at least happily surprized by the players at whzat they end up doing with the tools provided. if that means that tanks are the absolute weapon of power in the middle of an open field, then so be it, becuase thats what type of battle CCP was designing. and counter to that if the previous ends up true but CCP diddnt intend for that outcome then that same thing becomes imbalanced. exact same situation, can be both balanced or imbalanced. the ONLY factor that matters is weather or not that type of gameplay was the overall goal.
Mr Machine Guns Nyain San Renegade Alliance 161	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:32:00 - [24] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: i have this feeling that most of the people above me read about a paragraph. Oh wait, people always post on a long thread without reading it and then discredit all logic and insert their own, silly me- thats forums 101. Give hard math, non situational or ancedontal evidence and list it all in a clear, prefurably bullet point like manner or using a spreadsheet. I gave math and the situations i presented happen 95% of the time. Please gtfo if you can't realise that because you're either retard3d, or not involved with AV or tanks much. heres what happens when going against decent players tank getw a kill or 2 they spawn in with proto AV they insta pop tank with proto broken forge gun or proto swarms, no wonder the proto AV is in prototype stage, they're not tested but they're broken and need fixing maybe that happens to your tankers in your corp
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 129	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:36:00 - [25] - Quote Mr Machine Guns wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: i have this feeling that most of the people above me read about a paragraph. Oh wait, people always post on a long thread without reading it and then discredit all logic and insert their own, silly me- thats forums 101. Give hard math, non situational or ancedontal evidence and list it all in a clear, prefurably bullet point like manner or using a spreadsheet. heres what happens when going against decent players tank getw a kill or 2 they spawn in with proto AV they insta pop tank with proto broken forge gun or proto swarms, no wonder the proto AV is in prototype stage, they're not tested but they're broken and need fixing maybe that happens to your tankers in your corp umm, no, this happens all the time and everywhere outside pc, other players tanks too, against decent players. recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 664	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:36:00 - [26] - Quote Mr Machine Guns wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: i have this feeling that most of the people above me read about a paragraph. Oh wait, people always post on a long thread without reading it and then discredit all logic and insert their own, silly me- thats forums 101. Give hard math, non situational or ancedontal evidence and list it all in a clear, prefurably bullet point like manner or using a spreadsheet. I gave math and the situations i presented happen 95% of the time. Please gtfo if you can't realise that because you're either retard3d, or not involved with AV or tanks much. heres what happens when going against decent players tank getw a kill or 2 they spawn in with proto AV they insta pop tank with proto broken forge gun or proto swarms, no wonder the proto AV is in prototype stage, they're not tested but they're broken and need fixing maybe that happens to your tankers in your corp You make it sound like your corps good, exploiting NA servers so you have ****** ping and become nearly unkillable because of it, or using FOTM proto gear to stomp around in pubs, or thinking blobbing is a "pro" tactic. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Mr Machine Guns Nyain San Renegade Alliance 161	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:41:00 - [27] - Quote can someone say qq, get over this lag BS our japanese players are just that much better than most people on this game, stop blaming something as real as the loch ness monster
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 566	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:42:00 - [28] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: i have this feeling that most of the people above me read about a paragraph. Oh wait, people always post on a long thread without reading it and then discredit all logic and insert their own, silly me- thats forums 101. Give hard math, non situational or ancedontal evidence and list it all in a clear, prefurably bullet point like manner or using a spreadsheet. I gave math and the situations i presented happen 95% of the time. Please gtfo if you can't realise that because you're either retard3d, or not involved with AV or tanks much. oh please Pothead, being so hypocritical already? Thought there was no name calling. I'd also like to point out, because you saying its 95% of the time, doesnt make it so. Thats what situational evidence is. You cant call something a fact off of situational evidence, thats akin to someone on LDS saying "The walls are melting and thats a fact". The OP was no name calling, not me, thats my official statement, but once you start posting you'd best believe i dont give a f uck. And if you can't see that the situations i presented are what really happens ALL the time, then im done with you, I can tell you whats common sense, but a serial killer can always argue that hes not wrong because theres no real evidence what he does is wrong. You want math its in the 10 maxed proto FG shots to kill a single maxed tank. Thats why tanks don't get solo'ed generally, thats why multiple AV means EZ mode quick death to them and they rage about OP AV.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 129	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:43:00 - [29] - Quote Mr Machine Guns wrote: can someone say qq, get over this lag BS our japanese players are just that much better than most people on this game, stop blaming something as real as the loch ness monster stop abusing proto AV recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Mr Machine Guns Nyain San Renegade Alliance 161	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:45:00 - [30] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Mr Machine Guns wrote: can someone say qq, get over this lag BS our japanese players are just that much better than most people on this game, stop blaming something as real as the loch ness monster stop abusing proto AV I'm sorry have you been pub stomped by us recently



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