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THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 565	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:07:00 - [1] - Quote No name calling-just simple reality here. So theres of course the whole scaling factor for 3 AV to kill a tank means 6 tanks requires more players than a team has whatever, then tankers usually respond focus AV then move on to next target whatever. Simple reality to this is- Yes through combined AV they will devastate tank after tank so long as the tanks team is made of scrubs and only that- bad tanks, tanks shy away from blue infantry, blues suck and don't hunt AVers, blue are losing. Unfortunately the well fitted tanks that do have a competent team that isn't locked down in a firefight, will completely steamroll the enemy even if there whole team spawns with AV, tanker kills a few, retreats, waits for AV to get massacred, repeats, pubstomp. both of these scenarios happen all the time. As a result good tankers just pull out there tanks during pubstomps, and go 40/0 easily. The simple truth is it already takes multiple AV to kill a single tank- but only well fit ones. An appropriately fitted maddy takes 10 IAFG(prof5, 2 damage mods) shots in a row to kill an armor upgrades level 5(10% base resistance) 120mm poly plate with a heavy repper & 3 active hardeners.(2 hardeners 180mm plate pg exp is inferior to this fit). Now that 10 shots require about 40(rough guess) or so seconds to get off in row(perfect scenario, which is common because of rooftops) During this time it is sometimes impossible to get to cover, if the AVer waited to get you into a good spot, but nonetheless, simply hopping out and recalling your tank during the 10 shots is EXTREMELY easy. Now we have in most games however, the reason the tank dieing, being to about 2 or so proto AVers and a MLT swarm or 2 all at once, considering the AVers are forgers, this means both wouldn't need to reload, and the explosive vs armor damage is glitched letting those mlt swarms do a bit of damage. As a result, the time to kill is lowered to only about 10 or 15 seconds, which translate to this scenario so commonly- Tanker: oh had some MLT swarms hit me, whatever, hit reppers, oh sht i got hit by something strong-where is he?! OH F** LOTSA DAMAGE RUN RUN! backs up for 3 seconds BOOM* tanker rage. So multiple AV is the reason tanks die 95% of the time, but soloing good tanks is ridiculously hard already UNTIL you get a tower overwatch and you can then hit them w/ EZmode AV, but a good tank w/ recalling means no kill for you. Now heres the reason however extremely tough tanks are a bad idea IMO(opinion sure,but based off experience)- Remember the charybdis? Despite being able to run over a whole team easily, no one really pulled out AV to kill it. The reason being that it was(is) so ridiculously hard to kill, that it wasn't worth it, why pull out AV and get slaughtered over & over when you wouldn't even be able to kill it? Thats how it was(is). You can compare this to a dropship, where the moment its seen or gets a kill, everyone and their momma pulls out a forge, why? EZkill. The one saving grace about this, is that a smaller reason people didn't pull out AV was because it was difficult to hit the charybdis at all with a FG, let alone enough to kill it, however with a tank its still easy to hit it consistently. So there ya go! I'd like to close saying I don't really care if tanks become OP, cus CCP will just nerf them anyways. Also I didn't talk about swarms much because of the explosive weapon damage being glitched. As well as them becoming undisputedly useless potato cannons next patch. And if all AV becomes as bad as swarms and plasma cannons ill just use a proto rail on an MLT tank on a hill as an AV weapon so... Ya, this thread was all about truth and what really happens in game, not about numbers, but just about what happens day to day. Theres so much i still couldn't say but the threads long enough.
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 565	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:15:00 - [2] - Quote TL;DR- the title is answered in the second to last paragraph, but the rest is stuff anyone involved with tanks or AV should know, explaining why sometimes tanks are OP and sometimes AV is OP, whether you can know that and claim tanks to be generally OP or UP is entirely your opinion, but not fact. If i were to call tanks OP it'd be entirely opinion and no fact, same as if i were to call them UP.
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 566	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:19:00 - [3] - Quote i have this feeling that most of the people above me read about a paragraph. Oh wait, people always post on a long thread without reading it and then discredit all logic and insert their own, silly me- thats forums 101.
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 566	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:20:00 - [4] - Quote Mr Machine Guns wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: TL;DR- the title is answered in the second to last paragraph, but the rest is stuff anyone involved with tanks or AV should know, explaining why sometimes tanks are OP and sometimes AV is OP, whether you can know that and claim tanks to be generally OP or UP is entirely your opinion, but not fact. If i were to call tanks OP it'd be entirely opinion and no fact, same as if i were to call them UP. no if so said tanks were either OP or Up they would just find a way to insult Nyain San and completely disregard you statement LOOOL the guy right above you completely proved your point.
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 566	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:26:00 - [5] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: i have this feeling that most of the people above me read about a paragraph. Oh wait, people always post on a long thread without reading it and then discredit all logic and insert their own, silly me- thats forums 101. Give hard math, non situational or ancedontal evidence and list it all in a clear, prefurably bullet point like manner or using a spreadsheet. I gave math and the situations i presented happen 95% of the time. Please gtfo if you can't realise that because you're either retard3d, or not involved with AV or tanks much.
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 566	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:42:00 - [6] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: i have this feeling that most of the people above me read about a paragraph. Oh wait, people always post on a long thread without reading it and then discredit all logic and insert their own, silly me- thats forums 101. Give hard math, non situational or ancedontal evidence and list it all in a clear, prefurably bullet point like manner or using a spreadsheet. I gave math and the situations i presented happen 95% of the time. Please gtfo if you can't realise that because you're either retard3d, or not involved with AV or tanks much. oh please Pothead, being so hypocritical already? Thought there was no name calling. I'd also like to point out, because you saying its 95% of the time, doesnt make it so. Thats what situational evidence is. You cant call something a fact off of situational evidence, thats akin to someone on LDS saying "The walls are melting and thats a fact". The OP was no name calling, not me, thats my official statement, but once you start posting you'd best believe i dont give a f uck. And if you can't see that the situations i presented are what really happens ALL the time, then im done with you, I can tell you whats common sense, but a serial killer can always argue that hes not wrong because theres no real evidence what he does is wrong. You want math its in the 10 maxed proto FG shots to kill a single maxed tank. Thats why tanks don't get solo'ed generally, thats why multiple AV means EZ mode quick death to them and they rage about OP AV.
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 567	Posted - 2013.11.23 07:58:00 - [7] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Mr Machine Guns wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Mr Machine Guns wrote: can someone say qq, get over this lag BS our japanese players are just that much better than most people on this game, stop blaming something as real as the loch ness monster L-O-L Dont worry, i'll get some video proof of them lagging around dude to ****-tier internet. How about they play on Asian servers? Then i'll join and kick their butts because they CANT hit me. based on your logic why don't you go into the asian severs and lag in there and pile up the kills Hint hint Its because I dont need a crutch. Hint hint Our asian players do play on asian servers and our american players play on NA servers, you're just garbage. You think I'm japanese? NO. OBVIOUSLY. Yet people claim I'm a laggy jap dude who needs to play on his own server. Newsflash, high speed internet. That why I have good hit detection. You? garbage internet that makes you have bad hit detection. ON EVERYONE, IN ALL ONLINE SHOOTERS. Laugh so hard when scrubs make excuses.
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 567	Posted - 2013.11.23 08:02:00 - [8] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Quote: So theres of course the whole scaling factor for 3 AV to kill a tank means 6 tanks requires more players than a team has whatever, then tankers usually respond focus AV then move on to next target whatever. Simple reality to this is- Wait, so you're trying to tell me that your weapons literally stop ***ing working after you kill one tank? Cause if you are you're outright lying. Misrepresenting the argument benefits no one. If it takes 3 players to kill one tank, that doesn't mean it takes 6 players to kill two tanks, because the weapons on those first 3 players still work - it still only takes 3 players to kill a second tank, and a third tank, and a fourth tank, a fifth tank, etc ad infinitum. One av player is a deterrent (unless a vehicle user is incredibly stupid or everything* goes perfectly for the av). Two av players is a threat, three a very s, four or more should be an almost guaranteed kill. As others have said - teamwork for thee but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the av infantry. Dude...did you even read the next paragraph? You didn't even understand that one...omg can the playerbase really be this stupid?...Oh wait the troll threads prove that everyday on here lollll.
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 567	Posted - 2013.11.23 08:05:00 - [9] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: I should also like to make another responce to Pothead. Why do you think AV should be solelly spec'd around killing HAVs when there are more vehicles in the game than HAVs? Just some food for thought. Because with the nerf of the murder taxi the only real vehicular threat is in fact a HAV. I could be wrong though. Nope your right, the charybdis can no longer slaughter infantry and dropships are unbelievably squishy and UP so LAVs and dropships are unimportant.
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 567	Posted - 2013.11.23 08:09:00 - [10] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: Our asian players do play on asian servers and our american players play on NA servers, you're just garbage. You think I'm japanese? NO. OBVIOUSLY. Yet people claim I'm a laggy jap dude who needs to play on his own server. Newsflash, high speed internet. That why I have good hit detection. You? garbage internet that makes you have bad hit detection. ON EVERYONE, IN ALL ONLINE SHOOTERS. Laugh so hard when scrubs make excuses. Did I mention you were asian, stop smoking so much pot and relearn to read. Might I add I have 3gig unified. So throw your "garbage" internet theory out the window. Wasn't talking specifically about you but if you're still claiming that we lag you're either a liar or just fool yourself into believing your own excuses.

THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 567	Posted - 2013.11.23 08:16:00 - [11] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: Our asian players do play on asian servers and our american players play on NA servers, you're just garbage. You think I'm japanese? NO. OBVIOUSLY. Yet people claim I'm a laggy jap dude who needs to play on his own server. Newsflash, high speed internet. That why I have good hit detection. You? garbage internet that makes you have bad hit detection. ON EVERYONE, IN ALL ONLINE SHOOTERS. Laugh so hard when scrubs make excuses. Did I mention you were asian, stop smoking so much pot and relearn to read. Might I add I have 3gig unified. So throw your "garbage" internet theory out the window. Wasn't talking specifically about you but if you're still claiming that we lag you're either a liar or just fool yourself into believing your own excuses. Tell me again how you wernt talking about me Quote: You? garbage internet that makes you have bad hit detection. I was saying that about the people claiming I'm a laggy jap dude. Like I said in the sentence before that. Please learn to read.
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 567	Posted - 2013.11.23 08:23:00 - [12] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Pfft, japs that think they're ENTITLED to stating they're better than us. Yes, i will state that, in general you guys have SOLO skill. But when it comes to teamwork, you make the shittiest plans ever. That or you just rely on broken mechanics CONSTANTLY. Also for the record- 15gig internet, my ps3 IS plugged in, and 99% of the time, when im playing nothing else drags my internet. Also in 80% of my matches things go incredibly well. Then i meet you guys. Framerate drops instantly to 3fps, controls respond almoat a whole second late. And you wanna know why? Because you're asian, and you spam equipments whilst your system has been modified to allow the extra toll placed by ALL THAT DAMN EQUIPMENT. Then you grab the splashiest, most face rapingest weapons you can find, and spam them in our face. Pretty goddamned cowardly if you ask me. Need i restate this is EVERY match you're in? I don't even know how to respond to this...? DUDE WE'RE NOT JAPANESE???!! If you have your server setting to automatic it can throw you into an asian server match during asian primetime, likewise for asians during american primetime. Otherwise you're facing american players. And ALL of us have good connections. But sorry bro if 20% of your matches are getting problems especially like 3fps and input delays, you've got some serious problems on your end.
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 567	Posted - 2013.11.23 08:36:00 - [13] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: When I was a member of TRUE TEA BAGGERS (BAGGN) it was normal for us to all run with packed AV grenades. Our squad alone would kill more tanks than I think the next 50. We would even compete on who got the last hit on a tank with 12-18 AV grenades getting thrown at it. All of our gun game was top notch so, we carried AV nades. When we were in match known tankers wouldn't even call a tank into battle. They knew, we would kill them and they would lose ISK. Exactly, I'm saying multiple AV means Insta death to tanks as is, but when your solo killing a maxed maddy fit is ridiculously hard(unless you're on a rooftop and he doesn't recall), as in how many times have you been without a squad and had enemy proto bears behind an enemy beast tank, and been able to successfully take it out with those AV nades? If the tank or its team sucks, its f*ed, it they don't, you're f*ed.
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 567	Posted - 2013.11.23 08:41:00 - [14] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Mr Machine Guns wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Mr Machine Guns wrote: ok you are QQing Couldnt figure out how to remove some quotes? no i know how to do that and its just funny how do you think you are not QQing or crying or whining about the lag our japanese players cause Now you're admitting that your japanese players cause lag. Slow clap for being so hypocritical. The amount of you stupidity you put there combined with the assumption I was talking about you- was enough to make me hide your posts. Keep seeing what you wanna see, I'm done with you, thanks for keeping my thread at the top of the list.
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 569	Posted - 2013.11.23 08:54:00 - [15] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: Rowdy Railgunner wrote: When I was a member of TRUE TEA BAGGERS (BAGGN) it was normal for us to all run with packed AV grenades. Our squad alone would kill more tanks than I think the next 50. We would even compete on who got the last hit on a tank with 12-18 AV grenades getting thrown at it. All of our gun game was top notch so, we carried AV nades. When we were in match known tankers wouldn't even call a tank into battle. They knew, we would kill them and they would lose ISK. Exactly, I'm saying multiple AV means Insta death to tanks as is, but when your solo killing a maxed maddy fit is ridiculously hard(unless you're on a rooftop and he doesn't recall), as in how many times have you been without a squad and had enemy proto bears behind an enemy beast tank, and been able to successfully take it out with those AV nades? If the tank or its team sucks, its f*ed, it they don't, you're f*ed. We killed most of them. Like I said we had good gun game so the fact that people are hiding behind a tank didn't matter. Also, once you learn the depths of which is the art of throwing an AV nade, 2-3-4 and then 6-7-8 hitting a tank at the same time usually causes a moment of panic for a pilot or it's death depending on how good he was. I would say that 95% of the tanks were felled though. Normally with 1-2 of us being blastered to new clones. Didn't matter though. Tanks are bad business if you want to win ambush. You can't let the enemy team have them. Ah but i said solo? I have no doubt a squad or even 2 people can take out any tank backed with its own squad, but lemme see go solo and try to kill our tankers when theyre with our squads. Only successful way would be as i said, to be atop a tower. I think what tankers need to say is they want to be just a bit tougher in general because soloing well fitted maddys is already so unlikely barring tower/rooftop AV, while multiple AV or tower AV means EZ mode.
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 569	Posted - 2013.11.23 09:15:00 - [16] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: Rowdy Railgunner wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: Rowdy Railgunner wrote: When I was a member of TRUE TEA BAGGERS (BAGGN) it was normal for us to all run with packed AV grenades. Our squad alone would kill more tanks than I think the next 50. We would even compete on who got the last hit on a tank with 12-18 AV grenades getting thrown at it. All of our gun game was top notch so, we carried AV nades. When we were in match known tankers wouldn't even call a tank into battle. They knew, we would kill them and they would lose ISK. Exactly, I'm saying multiple AV means Insta death to tanks as is, but when your solo killing a maxed maddy fit is ridiculously hard(unless you're on a rooftop and he doesn't recall), as in how many times have you been without a squad and had enemy proto bears behind an enemy beast tank, and been able to successfully take it out with those AV nades? If the tank or its team sucks, its f*ed, it they don't, you're fed. We killed most of them. Like I said we had good gun game so the fact that people are hiding behind a tank didn't matter. Also, once you learn the depths of which is the art of throwing an AV nade, 2-3-4 and then 6-7-8 hitting a tank at the same time usually causes a moment of panic for a pilot or it's death depending on how good he was. I would say that 95% of the tanks were felled though. Normally with 1-2 of us being blastered to new clones. Didn't matter though. Tanks are bad business if you want to win ambush. You can't let the enemy team have them. Ah but i said solo? I have no doubt a squad or even 2 people can take out any tank backed with its own squad, but lemme see go solo and try to kill our tankers when theyre with our squads. Only successful way would be as i said, to be atop a tower. I think what tankers need to say is they want to be just a bit tougher in general because soloing well fitted maddys is already so unlikely barring tower/rooftop AV, while multiple AV or tower AV means EZ mode. See, you are only promoting stomping. I'm sure all of your tankers would do great when against an unorganized gaggle of mercs. They probably kill them all. BADASS dude. badmuthafukinass. I would bet though, that geronimo, tyberious and myself would kill your whole squad and get a tank kill with just the 3 of us. Unfortunately, I never see them online anymore so this has to be all theory talk. LOLOLOL dude I play with geronimo alot we're homies, why don't you run that scenario by him:d But i was just using us as an example before you started raging- im simply saying soloing tanks is ridiculously hard unless youre on a high point, and multiple AV or high points mean tanks are f**ed and get destroyed.
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 571	Posted - 2013.11.23 10:43:00 - [17] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: No, that one AV team travels around destroying all the tanks. You're making it seem worse by requiring different people for each tank. It's a crock. Stop hugely inflating your argument to make it seem far worse than it is presently. One guy with MLT swarms keeps all vehicles at bay. you just read the first paragraph and you didnt even get that >_> the first paragraph said thats what the typical excuse is and thats what the tankers typical response is -.- you just proved that point -.- Please read thoroughly next time. A guy with MLT swarms cannot do anything, not even keep a tank at bay. Try using a starter fit against a fully fitted maddy or gunny and say that again. A MLT swarm can help other AV rack up damage though. But if your tanks getting held back by MLT swarms you're made of fail. That being said proto AV can certainly deny a tank by itself, but unless you're using prof5 3 dmg mods swarms on a maddy its unlikely you'll be able to solo kill a maxed out maddy unless you're on a tower. Tanks get screwed by 3 things that totally f*** them- sudden multiple AV rooftop AV explosive to armor damage being glitched(grenades do extra damage to dropsuit armor, as do MD, and AV nades and swarms to tanks) seeing as how CCP is already balancing tanks though this thread doesn't matter, but i thought i should just say it like it is.
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 571	Posted - 2013.11.23 10:57:00 - [18] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: No, that one AV team travels around destroying all the tanks. You're making it seem worse by requiring different people for each tank. It's a crock. Stop hugely inflating your argument to make it seem far worse than it is presently. One guy with MLT swarms keeps all vehicles at bay. you just read the first paragraph and you didnt even get that >_> the first paragraph said thats what the typical excuse is and thats what the tankers typical response is -.- you just proved that point -.- Please read thoroughly next time. A guy with MLT swarms cannot do anything, not even keep a tank at bay. Try using a starter fit against a fully fitted maddy or gunny and say that again. A MLT swarm can help other AV rack up damage though. But if your tanks getting held back by MLT swarms you're made of fail. That being said proto AV can certainly deny a tank by itself, but unless you're using prof5 3 dmg mods swarms on a maddy its unlikely you'll be able to solo kill a maxed out maddy unless you're on a tower. Tanks get screwed by 3 things that totally f* them- sudden multiple AV rooftop AV explosive to armor damage being glitched(grenades do extra damage to dropsuit armor, as do MD, and AV nades and swarms to tanks) seeing as how CCP is already balancing tanks though this thread doesn't matter, but i thought i should just say it like it is. You must think I'm some kind of idiot. Only because of the people who have already posted. I'm sure what I'm saying seems obvious, but thats the point- tanks are UP when they're in those situations and tanks are OP when they're not. However when we had the charybdis r@ping errrbody, barely anyone even bothered to pull out AV because all you could do was put a dent in it. (unless the driver was stupid) so i'd be worried if tanks were as difficult to kill they'd do the same. Thats how dust players are, why stay together with your blueberries when you think they'll get stomped, why try? why try to kill a charybdis when u'll die over and over and probably not succeed? why try to kill a tank when u'll die over and over and probably not succeed? we'd rather just go off on our own so our KDR doesn't get ****, or in the case of noobies, so we dont lose isk.