I really would not want to see them ****ed beyond belief however.

I am not a fan of the assault logistics and I think changes need to happen, and its starting to look like it will.

Personally I would like to see logistics keep their all their slots and give them the 75/75 buff the heavies received. However change the light weapon to a sidearm only. It would cut the range down on them.

I currently see in dust a nice co-dependance of many suits and vehicles.
-Assaults rely on Logistics for ammo or up-links depending on their fits
-Heavies rely on Logistics for health and ammo
-Scout rely on heavies and assaults to draw a firing line so they can flank easier
-Tanks rely on all suits to kill swarm launchers and forge guns
-Drop-ships rely on all suits for the same
-Foot-soldier rely on tanks to kill large assortments of people.

Yes it is a shifted reliance with the logistics being more of a center role for 2 others possibly 3 if you want to draw the scout into it, but as I see the matches right now it does not feel like logistics rely on anyone, they provide their own repair, ammo and drop uplinks.

Logistics seem to not really rely on anyone, yes you may say I need to reload to kill someone when I fired my clip but that is the case for a lot of suits and the heavy reload also requires someone to defend him.

Taking the logistics down to sidearm only but giving them a good inherent shield and armour buff, would make them rely on assaults for their long range defense. The buff would ensure they can get across open spaces easier or run for cover, but be able to wreck up close due to their higher tanks with good up close weaponry.


TL:DR
Reliance triangle principle
Logistics 75/75 shield armour buff but sidearm only

I just don't get why a support suit would need more module slots than an assault suit. Like, why does that even make sense? Shouldn't the [i][assault/i] suit be able to have more damage, hp, and slightly more speed than the support guys? I don't know, that just seems to make more sense to me.

Well logistics do require the extra slots, hell most of us are carrying 3 -4 pieces of equipment that suck up a great deal of pg and cpu. It's difficult to fit your best gear with some decent dropsuit modules/weaponry.

Well logistics do require the extra slots, hell most of us are carrying 3 -4 pieces of equipment that suck up a great deal of pg and cpu. It's difficult to fit your best gear with some decent dropsuit modules/weaponry.

huh?

I am not seeing any connection between "most of us are carrying 3-4 pieces of equipment"
and "logistics do require the extra slots".

It in fact makes the case that logis should have LESS slots.
Theres supposed to be limited space for tech in a suit.

The more of (X) you have, then the less space you should have for (Y).

If logis have more EQ slots, they need to have less other type slots.

Okay, if you want to argue "they lost a sidearm slot for the EQ slot", thats fine for the first extra EQ slot. but then where's the rationale for gaining the second, for the ADV suit?
There needs to be a corresponding additional penalty compared to the other medium frame suits.

Similarly, there is ZERO justification for having MORE slots than assault suits?!?!?

Having the same number of slots, is kindasorta understandable. But no way is it justifyable to have MORE slots.

Lower base stats.

50-75% bonus to Equipment fitting reduction.

Boom.

Mirror slots, and stats.

Ta-da. None of that sidearm only mumbo-jumbo.

Mirror Assault and Logi stats+Slots and replace dumb rep bonus for Equipment based bonus.

Logis being able to fit 1100 HP while still keeping 3 advanced equipment ain't balanced.

Particularly when the other 2 med frames max out at 900.

The sidearm means nothing when you both have such a massive mag and when your foe can just eat bullets like a champ.

Lower base stats.

huh?

I am not seeing any connection between "most of us are carrying 3-4 pieces of equipment"
and "logistics do require the extra slots".

It in fact makes the case that logis should have LESS slots.
Theres supposed to be limited space for tech in a suit.

The more of (X) you have, then the less space you should have for (Y).

If logis have more EQ slots, they need to have less other type slots.

Okay, if you want to argue "they lost a sidearm slot for the EQ slot", thats fine for the first extra EQ slot. but then where's the rationale for gaining the second, for the ADV suit?
There needs to be a corresponding additional penalty compared to the other medium frame suits.

Similarly, there is ZERO justification for having MORE slots than assault suits?!?!?

Having the same number of slots, is kindasorta understandable. But no way is it justifyable to have MORE slots.

Why not just remove 1 low slot and 1 high slot
Or change the armor rep bonus, that's why people prefer they don't have to waste armor slots on a repper
Also it makes far more sense to make dmg mods incompatible in logis rather than remove weapons

Why not just remove 1 low slot and 1 high slot
Or change the armor rep bonus, that's why people prefer they don't have to waste armor slots on a repper
Also it makes far more sense to make dmg mods incompatible in logis rather than remove weapons

Support logi here. Proof: 2.3 mil WP/11K kills.

I need all of you people who are proposing logi nerfs to STFU. Seriously.

Your hate of assault oriented logis is going to uber screw us support types. Stop this BS now!

How is not allowing logis to fit more health/damage than assaults going to screw them? Why does it even make sense that a support character would be able to fit more health/damage than an assault character?

Because support characters have to run around the battlefield, reviving, healing, scanning, resupplying, uplinking, and other such things that are not killing the enemy. Thus, they need the health to survive, since taking time to kill means taking time away from support.

That....doesn't really seem to make sense. I understand that support characters have to do support things. But why do they need more health to do support tasks? Why do they have to be on the literal front-line to support their team? They can't use a rep-tool or drop a nano-hive from behind the line of fire? You're saying they need more health since they aren't shooting at people, but doesn't the opposite make more sense? That the people actively engaging in firefights need more health and damage output? Because that's kinda their role on the battlefield?

Assault needs more damage output, that I do not question. But how can the assaults kill if they're support goes down?

Plus, increasing range on tools and hives won't help them rep, because they still have to put them where assaults are fighting, which is the front line. If they did increase the range, the logi is now isolated from the group.

I'll give you that slayer logis are annoying as hell, but nerfing logis means its that much harder for us logibros to do our logibroing. Making logis unable to fit damage modifiers is a solution I've heard, but taking the 10% buff off all weapons and giving assault a 2% damage per level bonus instead of shield recharge would make logos deal less damage save for extreme circumstances.

Yes, obviously an assault suit will have an advantage with a logi at their side, but that doesn't mean the logi needs more health than them. Maybe the same, sure. But definitely not more. What I'm saying, is if you're firing your rep tool at a squad member, just stand behind them while you do. Don't put yourself in the line of fire, because you're the support guy, it's not your job to take the hits.

I never mentioned the ranges of equipment, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up. Like I said, just don't be on the literal front-line if you're a logi.

There's a slight logical error with your last paragraph. That idea wouldn't make logis do less damage; they would do the same relative to other suits, assaults would just do even more damage.

Which is why I suggested the 2% buff per level. Assault gets damage, logis get survivability. Trade one for the other. The issue now is logis can get the best of both worlds, which is less the logis being OP and assault being UP. Giving assaults 2% per level after removing the 10% damage buff every weapon got goes toward equalizing this.

Stand behind is relative to the enemy. Flanking maneuvers put me to the side of the guy I'm repping, relative to the enemy. There are no clear lines. We have to be able to survive no matter where the attacker is. I'm not saying I have to survive all engagements, and clearly I need to attempt to grab cover, but if someone goes down across the road, I have to be able to get across. But standing behind someone assumes clear cut battle lines, and we don't have those.

I meant to say less damage compared to an assault suit after the changes. That was my bad.

My biggest issue with buffing assault suits is that it will raise the overall power scale of this game even higher, and leave heavies and scouts even further in the dust, which isn't really something I think is a good idea. But I still don't really get it, why do the support guys deserve extra health at all? What's the logic exactly?

Yes, flanking is an effective technique if preformed properly. This is already true, and I don't see why adding a level of depth to strategy is a bad thing.

Which is why I gave the suggestion to remove the 10% buff from all weapons. At assault 5, the normal ttk would be back, while everyone else would have a longer ttk.

The justification is every suit class gives up something to improve something else. Assaults give up survivability for damage. Logis give up damage for survivability. Among heavy suits, commandos give up survivability for two light weapons, and regular heavies give up adaptability for heavy weapons and survivability. Scouts give up survivability for speed.

Making logis the same or weaker than assaults removes one of the benefits of choosing them. Currently the failing isn't with logis being good, its assaults being bad, because they have a bonus that only applies to half of the suits, and its a bonus that doesn't help them kill the enemy. Logis can outlive and outdps them, which breaks the give-and-take model. Thus, we need to make it to where logis can survive longer and assaults can kill faster.

Let's look at it differently. Both assault and logistics are based off of the basic frame of whatever race, right? Assaults can deal more damage than this basic frame, and logis can survive longer than thus basic frame. In the current model, logis can kill faster and survive longer, breaking the model. This isn't logis needing to be nerfed, but assaults needing to be buffed.

I was under the impression that logis gave up assault suit qualities in exchange for being extra good at supporting other suits. I still see no reason why the support character should out-tank or out-damage the assault character. The benefit of choosing them is supposed to be (at least in my understanding) those bonus equipment slots, solidifying their role as the support unit. Of course, the current logi suit bonuses don't really lend to this specifically, and I would also love to see them changed to be more beneficial to equipment use (something CCP has also said they'd like to do).

For the record, I'm also very for removing that 10% damage from weapons and giving assault suits your suggested bonus. I just don't see any actual logical reason the "healers" need to have more health than the frontline soldiers.

I'm obviously speaking out of bias towards logis. But from my perspective, the assaults would have less health, because 1. they can deal more damage, a fair trade off for less health, and 2. they have a logi to rep them up. The logi has no one to help him, save another logi. Thus, he gets more health, to make him able to survive, since if he goes down, there's no picking him up, save an assault having a needle, which takes away from some of his assault capability, or another logi, who needs to be able to survive long enough to pick the first logi back up.

Currently, logis are stepping on assault's toes, which is less about logis being too good, and assaults being too bad. This is why I feel assaults need a buff, and not a nerf to logis, because as a logibro, I enjoy my job, and I feel I'm in a place to do it well. Bringing down logis to curtail the slayerlogis hurts me as well as them. Therefore, why not bring assaults up to my level, which will make assaults better than slayerlogis at killing, and logibros get to keep on logibroing.

The only ones who lose out are those who invested in making a slayerlogi, and its only about 1.2 million skillpoints to get a proto assault suit, which is 2 weeks with boosters. Assaults get a buff, so theyre happy, logibros get to keep their suits and fits as they are, so they're happy, and the slayerlogis can suck it up for the 2-3 weeks it takes to get a proto assault suit, if they don't have one already.