DUST Search - We all know logistics will be getting something done...

Creedair Talor wrote:

I really would not want to see them ****ed beyond belief however.

I am not a fan of the assault logistics and I think changes need to happen, and its starting to look like it will.

Personally I would like to see logistics keep their all their slots and give them the 75/75 buff the heavies received. However change the light weapon to a sidearm only. It would cut the range down on them.

I currently see in dust a nice co-dependance of many suits and vehicles.
-Assaults rely on Logistics for ammo or up-links depending on their fits
-Heavies rely on Logistics for health and ammo
-Scout rely on heavies and assaults to draw a firing line so they can flank easier
-Tanks rely on all suits to kill swarm launchers and forge guns
-Drop-ships rely on all suits for the same
-Foot-soldier rely on tanks to kill large assortments of people.

Yes it is a shifted reliance with the logistics being more of a center role for 2 others possibly 3 if you want to draw the scout into it, but as I see the matches right now it does not feel like logistics rely on anyone, they provide their own repair, ammo and drop uplinks.

Logistics seem to not really rely on anyone, yes you may say I need to reload to kill someone when I fired my clip but that is the case for a lot of suits and the heavy reload also requires someone to defend him.

Taking the logistics down to sidearm only but giving them a good inherent shield and armour buff, would make them rely on assaults for their long range defense. The buff would ensure they can get across open spaces easier or run for cover, but be able to wreck up close due to their higher tanks with good up close weaponry.

TL:DR
Reliance triangle principle
Logistics 75/75 shield armour buff but sidearm only

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Creedair Talor NECROM0NGERS 24	Posted - 2013.11.21 16:58:00 - [1] - Quote I really would not want to see them ****ed beyond belief however. I am not a fan of the assault logistics and I think changes need to happen, and its starting to look like it will. Personally I would like to see logistics keep their all their slots and give them the 75/75 buff the heavies received. However change the light weapon to a sidearm only. It would cut the range down on them. I currently see in dust a nice co-dependance of many suits and vehicles. -Assaults rely on Logistics for ammo or up-links depending on their fits -Heavies rely on Logistics for health and ammo -Scout rely on heavies and assaults to draw a firing line so they can flank easier -Tanks rely on all suits to kill swarm launchers and forge guns -Drop-ships rely on all suits for the same -Foot-soldier rely on tanks to kill large assortments of people. Yes it is a shifted reliance with the logistics being more of a center role for 2 others possibly 3 if you want to draw the scout into it, but as I see the matches right now it does not feel like logistics rely on anyone, they provide their own repair, ammo and drop uplinks. Logistics seem to not really rely on anyone, yes you may say I need to reload to kill someone when I fired my clip but that is the case for a lot of suits and the heavy reload also requires someone to defend him. Taking the logistics down to sidearm only but giving them a good inherent shield and armour buff, would make them rely on assaults for their long range defense. The buff would ensure they can get across open spaces easier or run for cover, but be able to wreck up close due to their higher tanks with good up close weaponry. TL:DR Reliance triangle principle Logistics 75/75 shield armour buff but sidearm only
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 136	Posted - 2013.11.21 17:12:00 - [2] - Quote Creedair Talor wrote: I really would not want to see them ****ed beyond belief however. I am not a fan of the assault logistics and I think changes need to happen, and its starting to look like it will. Personally I would like to see logistics keep their all their slots and give them the 75/75 buff the heavies received. However change the light weapon to a sidearm only. It would cut the range down on them. I currently see in dust a nice co-dependance of many suits and vehicles. -Assaults rely on Logistics for ammo or up-links depending on their fits -Heavies rely on Logistics for health and ammo -Scout rely on heavies and assaults to draw a firing line so they can flank easier -Tanks rely on all suits to kill swarm launchers and forge guns -Drop-ships rely on all suits for the same -Foot-soldier rely on tanks to kill large assortments of people. Yes it is a shifted reliance with the logistics being more of a center role for 2 others possibly 3 if you want to draw the scout into it, but as I see the matches right now it does not feel like logistics rely on anyone, they provide their own repair, ammo and drop uplinks. Logistics seem to not really rely on anyone, yes you may say I need to reload to kill someone when I fired my clip but that is the case for a lot of suits and the heavy reload also requires someone to defend him. Taking the logistics down to sidearm only but giving them a good inherent shield and armour buff, would make them rely on assaults for their long range defense. The buff would ensure they can get across open spaces easier or run for cover, but be able to wreck up close due to their higher tanks with good up close weaponry. TL:DR Reliance triangle principle Logistics 75/75 shield armour buff but sidearm only And again for the 1500000 time NO NO NO and NO. You think logistics plays too much assault roles nd don't help you ? Ok try to remove weapons for them JUST TRY. We'll see when there will be 1 logistics for 250 players we'll see. Stop crying "oh poor assault blah blah" they are faster they are more powerful and they have more life than Logi with same skills and good fitting. And you forgot to say assault have equipements. I don't see why they should keep their equipements (and the PG/CPU allowed to it) if logi lose their weapon. 2 solution : - Less Pg/CPU for Logi but PG/CPU reduction on equipements for all Logis. OR - Makes new types of weapons ONLY for logi "Support" weapons.
Creedair Talor NECROM0NGERS 24	Posted - 2013.11.21 17:19:00 - [3] - Quote The assault may run more but I have many friends who have skills for both logi and assault now and their logi suits outtank their assault. Yes I can run a bit further but that does not help when the logi gets higher damage output and tank. They will get a nerf I would rather see them fall into a powerfull up close role and not to a **** point where you can not even move. Sidearms are good in their own right up close its not taking their weapons away which some other idiots have been saying. They rely on logistics for the equipment they do not have that is why you should actually read the OR
Meeko Fent Commando Perkone Caldari State 1633	Posted - 2013.11.21 17:30:00 - [4] - Quote Mirror Assault and Logi stats+Slots and replace dumb rep bonus for Equipment based bonus. Logis being able to fit 1100 HP while still keeping 3 advanced equipment ain't balanced. Particularly when the other 2 med frames max out at 900. The sidearm means nothing when you both have such a massive mag and when your foe can just eat bullets like a champ. For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy Replication Warrior
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation 477	Posted - 2013.11.21 17:42:00 - [5] - Quote How about NO? Stop crying "logi are OP" the problem are the fail bonus of assault suits, 5% shield recharge on gallente and amarr suit is useless. If logis are forced to use a sidearm only 95% will disappear. And I DO remember when there were no markers for nanite iniectors and when ccp removed WP from repair tools. ALL of you people that now are crying over "Op logi" did cry that there where no logi around repping/rezzing your precious full proto suit. The truth is that if you can't kill a logi suit with an assault suit it is YOUR fault. You are already faster, got more stamina and have a ******* sidearm. And yet more than half the asault player i encounter STAND STILL while i shoot them and the other half RELOAD instead of switching to their sidearm. I've had a lot of 1 vs 1 against assaults going like this: We spot eachother We start shooting I strafe The other guy doesen't The assault guy DIES or like this: We spot eachother We start shooting We both strafe I have to reload The other guy RELOADS too The assault guy DIES because i reloaded faster/got better aim. Assaults are faster than logis, if you don't use that to your advanced it is YOUR fault. Assaults have a sidearm, if you don't use it and instead choose to reload it is YOUR fault. I also lost a lot of time to people in MILITIA gears because they STRAFED and USED THEIR SIDEARM while i was reloading. The truth is that most assault players are way worse than they belive.
Creedair Talor NECROM0NGERS 24	Posted - 2013.11.21 17:54:00 - [6] - Quote How come every assault logi I talk to that has both the assault and the logi suit has thrown away their assault then? I strafe and switch to the sub when I can to finish off their armour, but if you go by a comparisson of suit vs suit yes I might be faster but up close in your face how does running a bit longer help me I can not sprint and fire. During this I can get a disatvantage because the logi can carry his repping hives his uplink that he used to get more friends and remote explosives if he chooses and his grenade. logis rely on no one they are a 1 man army that provides everything for themselves while not needing any help from anyone. Yes I can admit I miss 1 or 2 bullets on the scrambler rifle and can not get every single shot to hit while we are both dancing like nuts with a mouse due to not getting a nice sticking assist on long range engagements we can both fire jump into cover while he recharges fully I can not get anywhere near the same and he can outdamage me due to having more tank and damage mods with all those slots. The only drawback is loosing a sidearm slot otherwise all logis do is gain slots. Take my sidearm if I get 4 extra slots as a tradeoff make me a module sacrificiing a sidearm for 4 slots spread over high low and equipment.
Creedair Talor NECROM0NGERS 24	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:03:00 - [7] - Quote 9 out of 10 matches what do you see now in a warbarge, you see yellow suits everywhere, everyone and their mother uses logistics suits now. 16 people you can count if you are lucky 2-3 heavies, 1-2 scouts, 1-3 assault suits the rest are all running logistics in the form of either snipers, assaults, heavy tank, or the nice shotgun logistics scout running near scout speeds with more hp. That shows you the current suit layout or bonus makes the suit to powerfull, I liked the heavy changes they could maybe use another 25/25 increase but otherwise the changes were good also promoting the repair tool more, but out of the estimated 9 logistics suit in a match you get 1 that runs his repair tool the whole match or nanohives all the others do including yourself is run around with their assault fit logistics and gun people down with more tank and damage output, giving up a tiny bit of running time and a sidearm. Logistics are the better killer you can copy paste your assault fit unto the logistics add more modules to enhance damage or repair, still run a bit of equipment and wow you run 12.5seconds instead of 15 and lost the sidearm, which you do not notice if your reload speed is up near 4-5. The gain is to large for giving up such trivial things. CCP please post the suit type use comparisson graph for the last 2 months, I bet it will have a steady increase and overuse just like the flaylock had.
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 935	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:10:00 - [8] - Quote Please stop trying to nerf my logi, find a way to buff the assault. I'm pissed that my suit is now the FOTM, but nerfing it won't solve any problems. The assaults outdo the logis in combat at standard it's at advanced and proto that logis outdo assaults. This is why assaults have to have better bonuses to boost them as they level up. The Ellecon's come from a long line of Gallente. Tarn chose Peace. Tallen chose war. SoonGäó514
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 4658	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:14:00 - [9] - Quote How to nerf the logi by buffing the logi Never forget Level 4 Forum Warrior King of airborne swine.
Jammer Jalapeno BIG BAD W0LVES 70	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:55:00 - [10] - Quote I really wish you people would quit crying about logistics. We need a long range weapon just as much as you do. I can't tell you how many times i've had to either finish off or kill the enemy just to pick up someone safely. I'll admit the SMG is pretty bitchin but it just doesn't have the range. Logis are supposed to have your back, providing cover when your re-loading, watching your ass when you drop an OB, and jumping out of a tank to bust that AVer.

Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 936	Posted - 2013.11.21 20:31:00 - [11] - Quote TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: How to nerf the logi by buffing the logi Dominix is my favorite ship too. I built one in a 3d printer 30000:1 scale. The Ellecon's come from a long line of Gallente. Tarn chose Peace. Tallen chose war. SoonGäó514
Broonfondle Majikthies Bannana Boat Corp Relentless Heroes Alliance 477	Posted - 2013.11.21 20:42:00 - [12] - Quote Really? we cant pick our whole teams remember. You really want the possibility of having over half your force relegated to sidearms? jeez I wonder how that will play out Edit - Also why sidearms? a short ranged weapon for the guy that can't run very far. Genius -_- "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
Summ Dude Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 76	Posted - 2013.11.21 21:27:00 - [13] - Quote I just don't get why a support suit would need more module slots than an assault suit. Like, why does that even make sense? Shouldn't the [i][assault/i] suit be able to have more damage, hp, and slightly more speed than the support guys? I don't know, that just seems to make more sense to me.
Jammer Jalapeno BIG BAD W0LVES 70	Posted - 2013.11.21 21:45:00 - [14] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: I just don't get why a support suit would need more module slots than an assault suit. Like, why does that even make sense? Shouldn't the [i][assault/i] suit be able to have more damage, hp, and slightly more speed than the support guys? I don't know, that just seems to make more sense to me. Well logistics do require the extra slots, hell most of us are carrying 3 -4 pieces of equipment that suck up a great deal of pg and cpu. It's difficult to fit your best gear with some decent dropsuit modules/weaponry.
Cosgar ParagonX 7986	Posted - 2013.11.21 22:27:00 - [15] - Quote Can I get a source on this? If not, stop fear mongering. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Meeko Fent Commando Perkone Caldari State 1636	Posted - 2013.11.21 22:30:00 - [16] - Quote Jammer Jalapeno wrote: Summ Dude wrote: I just don't get why a support suit would need more module slots than an assault suit. Like, why does that even make sense? Shouldn't the [assault suit be able to have more damage, hp, and slightly more speed than the support guys? I don't know, that just seems to make more sense to me. Well logistics do require the extra slots, hell most of us are carrying 3 -4 pieces of equipment that suck up a great deal of pg and cpu. It's difficult to fit your best gear with some decent dropsuit modules/weaponry. 50-75% bonus to Equipment fitting reduction. Boom. Mirror slots, and stats. Ta-da. None of that sidearm only mumbo-jumbo. For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy Replication Warrior
Quil Evrything DUST University Ivy League 414	Posted - 2013.11.21 23:25:00 - [17] - Quote Jammer Jalapeno wrote: Well logistics do require the extra slots, hell most of us are carrying 3 -4 pieces of equipment that suck up a great deal of pg and cpu. It's difficult to fit your best gear with some decent dropsuit modules/weaponry. huh? I am not seeing any connection between "most of us are carrying 3-4 pieces of equipment" and "logistics do require the extra slots". It in fact makes the case that logis should have LESS slots. Theres supposed to be limited space for tech in a suit. The more of (X) you have, then the less space you should have for (Y). If logis have more EQ slots, they need to have less other type slots. Okay, if you want to argue "they lost a sidearm slot for the EQ slot", thats fine for the first extra EQ slot. but then where's the rationale for gaining the second, for the ADV suit? There needs to be a corresponding additional penalty compared to the other medium frame suits. Similarly, there is ZERO justification for having MORE slots than assault suits?!?!? Having the same number of slots, is kindasorta understandable. But no way is it justifyable to have MORE slots.
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 526	Posted - 2013.11.21 23:30:00 - [18] - Quote So...Logi bro A can fit an advanced set of equipment top to bottom and the price is more than double the equivalent cost of a fitting (same level gear) for an assault spec suit. Now that same Logi bro tops the KB at the end of the match even though Assault player A has 15-20 kills and more than 2x their deaths. How is it that they need to be balanced? This is balanced. I usually run between a deficit of 100k+ isk to a positive balance of maybe 20-50k isk at the end of match. Seems pretty balanced to me. *One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!*
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 854	Posted - 2013.11.22 03:33:00 - [19] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Jammer Jalapeno wrote: Well logistics do require the extra slots, hell most of us are carrying 3 -4 pieces of equipment that suck up a great deal of pg and cpu. It's difficult to fit your best gear with some decent dropsuit modules/weaponry. huh? I am not seeing any connection between "most of us are carrying 3-4 pieces of equipment" and "logistics do require the extra slots". It in fact makes the case that logis should have LESS slots. Theres supposed to be limited space for tech in a suit. The more of (X) you have, then the less space you should have for (Y). If logis have more EQ slots, they need to have less other type slots. Okay, if you want to argue "they lost a sidearm slot for the EQ slot", thats fine for the first extra EQ slot. but then where's the rationale for gaining the second, for the ADV suit? There needs to be a corresponding additional penalty compared to the other medium frame suits. Similarly, there is ZERO justification for having MORE slots than assault suits?!?!? Having the same number of slots, is kindasorta understandable. But no way is it justifyable to have MORE slots. Lower base stats. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Burner of faces. The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
Cosgar ParagonX 8001	Posted - 2013.11.22 04:04:00 - [20] - Quote Still waiting on that source... I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 231	Posted - 2013.11.22 04:13:00 - [21] - Quote I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M YELLING ABOOUUT! Who cares what some sniper has to say
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 154	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:26:00 - [22] - Quote Step 1: Remove 10% damage buff from all weapons Step2: Require logis to fill all weapon AND equipment slots Step 3: Give assault suits a 2% damage buff instead of shield recharge. Step 4: Do metrics, see if that needs to be adjusted.
Meeko Fent Commando Perkone Caldari State 1654	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:43:00 - [23] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: Jammer Jalapeno wrote: Well logistics do require the extra slots, hell most of us are carrying 3 -4 pieces of equipment that suck up a great deal of pg and cpu. It's difficult to fit your best gear with some decent dropsuit modules/weaponry. huh? I am not seeing any connection between "most of us are carrying 3-4 pieces of equipment" and "logistics do require the extra slots". It in fact makes the case that logis should have LESS slots. Theres supposed to be limited space for tech in a suit. The more of (X) you have, then the less space you should have for (Y). If logis have more EQ slots, they need to have less other type slots. Okay, if you want to argue "they lost a sidearm slot for the EQ slot", thats fine for the first extra EQ slot. but then where's the rationale for gaining the second, for the ADV suit? There needs to be a corresponding additional penalty compared to the other medium frame suits. Similarly, there is ZERO justification for having MORE slots than assault suits?!?!? Having the same number of slots, is kindasorta understandable. But no way is it justifyable to have MORE slots. Lower base stats. Mirror Base stats. Slots are much more powerful then 60 HP, and a half a meter a second, so reduce the slots so the med frames have the same options in highs and lows available to them, and mirror base stats. The Sidearm and Equipment are the things that should set the 2 classes apart, but instead, its the Logi has 2-300 more HP, while moving slightly slow without a sidearm, with several equipment, while the assault just moves faster with a sidearm they may not have to worry about. For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy Replication Warrior
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation 482	Posted - 2013.11.22 07:48:00 - [24] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Jammer Jalapeno wrote: Summ Dude wrote: I just don't get why a support suit would need more module slots than an assault suit. Like, why does that even make sense? Shouldn't the [assault suit be able to have more damage, hp, and slightly more speed than the support guys? I don't know, that just seems to make more sense to me. Well logistics do require the extra slots, hell most of us are carrying 3 -4 pieces of equipment that suck up a great deal of pg and cpu. It's difficult to fit your best gear with some decent dropsuit modules/weaponry. 50-75% bonus to Equipment fitting reduction. Boom. Mirror slots, and stats. Ta-da. None of that sidearm only mumbo-jumbo. So, same as the assault suit but with 2-3 equip instead of sidearm? That would be OP. The greatest drawback of a logi are speed and lower starting HP. Having the same slot and starting HP of an assault suit could work, but speed and stamina should be a bit lower than an assault suit. Overall the best idea i heard so far from the "nerf logi" crowd, +1
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 252	Posted - 2013.11.22 09:14:00 - [25] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Mirror Assault and Logi stats+Slots and replace dumb rep bonus for Equipment based bonus. Logis being able to fit 1100 HP while still keeping 3 advanced equipment ain't balanced. Particularly when the other 2 med frames max out at 900. The sidearm means nothing when you both have such a massive mag and when your foe can just eat bullets like a champ. Well in one Point you are right a Logi can go up to 1100 Hp but then there is no room for Equipment. Having three Equipmentslot does not automatically mean you cann fill them. So what Do you get if you Tank a Logi to 1100HP? You get a Suit at the Speed of a heavy with slightly less HP than a (std) Heavy without acces to a Sidearm without PG to fit Equipment. By your Logic Heavies must SUPER Assaults
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 252	Posted - 2013.11.22 09:38:00 - [26] - Quote I would rather see a complete change of the Logi Suit. The Logi should be more fragile than a assault (so current eHP) The Logi should be at least as fast as an assault ( I think a bit faster is ok) because we need to be fast to get where the action takes when the action takes place. Keep Logis Equipment To compensate give one Logi Slot to Assaults. Reduce Logi CPU/PG maybe to 345/70 and give Equitmentskills a CPU/PG Reduction (maybe 2 or 3%) That way Logi could fullfill thier Role without the ability to outtank an Assault BTW: If you remove the light weapon for a Sidearm than remove the Equipmentslot from assaults as well.
SteelheadPep Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords 1	Posted - 2013.11.22 13:17:00 - [27] - Quote Really! How many of these threads are you people going to post. The sad thing is that the support logis get the short end of the stick when a small group goes on a witch hunt not thinking about how it will effect more than just the group that they have a hard on for.Trying to minimize the damage you are trying to do, so here is my solution once again ; logistics suits cannot fit damage mods but increase the stacking penalties and/or CPU/PG requirements on all damage mods. If you want my suit to be nerfed then it is only fair that you feel the swing of the hammer as well. A real slayer doesn't need damage mods anyway to be special!
Quil Evrything DUST University Ivy League 415	Posted - 2013.11.22 15:54:00 - [28] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: Similarly, there is ZERO justification for having MORE slots than assault suits?!?!? Having the same number of slots, is kindasorta understandable. But no way is it justifyable to have MORE slots. Lower base stats. By that logic, since scouts have even LOWER base stats, they should have THE MOST SLOTS IN THE GAME! WOOO!!! Yeah, I dont think that's gonna happen. So get over your logi carebearing, and lose the slots
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 155	Posted - 2013.11.22 16:59:00 - [29] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Jammer Jalapeno wrote: Well logistics do require the extra slots, hell most of us are carrying 3 -4 pieces of equipment that suck up a great deal of pg and cpu. It's difficult to fit your best gear with some decent dropsuit modules/weaponry. huh? I am not seeing any connection between "most of us are carrying 3-4 pieces of equipment" and "logistics do require the extra slots". It in fact makes the case that logis should have LESS slots. Theres supposed to be limited space for tech in a suit. The more of (X) you have, then the less space you should have for (Y). If logis have more EQ slots, they need to have less other type slots. Okay, if you want to argue "they lost a sidearm slot for the EQ slot", thats fine for the first extra EQ slot. but then where's the rationale for gaining the second, for the ADV suit? There needs to be a corresponding additional penalty compared to the other medium frame suits. Similarly, there is ZERO justification for having MORE slots than assault suits?!?!? Having the same number of slots, is kindasorta understandable. But no way is it justifyable to have MORE slots. Logis should be spending their time performing logistics (healing, resupplying, scanning, etc.) which exposes them to more fire. If assault goes down, they have a logi to pick them back up. If the logi goes down, he's basically hosed, unless he has another logi. Therefore, they need the survivability that comes from extra slots. Justified. However, that does lead to them being able to deal more damage than assaults. This is less about logis being OP, and about assault being weak. The general assault bonus is kind of ridiculous, shield recharge has nothing to do with assaulting. Therefore, I proposed these changes in another thread. 1. Remove 10% damage buff from all weapons 2. Make assault bonus be 2% increase in damage per level instead of shield recharge 3. require logis to fill all equipment slots IN ADDITION to a weapon slot
SirManBoy Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 356	Posted - 2013.11.22 21:16:00 - [30] - Quote Attn: OP No. Never. Go away.



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