I had an alt account my brother made a while back, and decided that I would boot it up and try something else out, just so see how it was doing something new. Things were going okay (I picked up the PLC), but I noticed a trend while I was playing. Every time I had a match where people were running active scanners, the whole team was destroyed.

So, I figured "Well, they're running in squads. I can't really fault them for that. What am I going to do with a Plasma Cannon against six guys with mics". But then I noticed that not only were all of these matches blowouts, they were worse than usual redline camping. I'd see players not even able to walk around the "safezone" that the MCC and ground spawn were supposed to provide. Rather, I saw people dropping like flies for just poking their heads around a corner, or having a grenade land exactly beneath their feat, thrown from some normally bad angle.

The point that I'm trying to make is that these active scanners feel like tool to re-enforce camping more than anything else. I've heard the argument that if you want to combat scanners, you need to stealth tank or HTFU. I don't think that people who say that realize the counter-intuitive situation that brings up. If I use two of the two/three low slots on my suit to avoid advanced scanners, then I'm too weak to fight the people who I'm trying to avoid in the first place.

I have no problem with teams running together. The active scanner just needs to be tweaked - cooldown or range, angle or some other penalty. Right now, things look very bleak from the other end of the beam.

I had an alt account my brother made a while back, and decided that I would boot it up and try something else out, just so see how it was doing something new. Things were going okay (I picked up the PLC), but I noticed a trend while I was playing. Every time I had a match where people were running active scanners, the whole team was destroyed.

So, I figured "Well, they're running in squads. I can't really fault them for that. What am I going to do with a Plasma Cannon against six guys with mics". But then I noticed that not only were all of these matches blowouts, they were worse than usual redline camping. I'd see players not even able to walk around the "safezone" that the MCC and ground spawn were supposed to provide. Rather, I saw people dropping like flies for just poking their heads around a corner, or having a grenade land exactly beneath their feat, thrown from some normally bad angle.

The point that I'm trying to make is that these active scanners feel like tool to re-enforce camping more than anything else. I've heard the argument that if you want to combat scanners, you need to stealth tank or HTFU. I don't think that people who say that realize the counter-intuitive situation that brings up. If I use two of the two/three low slots on my suit to avoid advanced scanners, then I'm too weak to fight the people who I'm trying to avoid in the first place.

I have no problem with teams running together. The active scanner just needs to be tweaked - cooldown or range, angle or some other penalty. Right now, things look very bleak from the other end of the beam.

Even with how it is today, 100 Meters is really not that much.


Profile Dampeners need a buff, and the skill for the scouts needs to, at level 5, allow the user to almost be able to avoid Proto Scanners (maybe fit one Basic/Enhanced Profile Dampener to not be scanned by anything....)

Scout 5 plus one basic avoids the majority of the prototype scanners already. Do you think scouts should be able to avoid every scanner without completely gimping their low slots?

lol Didn't even know that, from what people say I assumed it affects almost nothing, oops.


IMO, yes, they should be able to avoid most Scanners without mods.

Yep, Scout 5, Dampening 1 and one basic damp will get you below 28 dB.

Scout 3, Dampening 3 and one enhanced will too.

Scout 5, Dampening 5 and two complex are needed to get below the 15 dB model which seems a fair trade to be invisible to every method of scanning available.

It all seems pretty balanced to me.

I think that everyone should have to pay some sort of "price" to counter the scanners. But between the backwards math that prevents any suit from beating adv scanners with a complex dampener (I can't find the link now), beating the scan is *so* resource intensive that there is almost no point.

And the distance you can see out is less important/useful than being able to see if someone is waiting on a corner or climbing a ledge. Even more useful when the whole squad can see that

I had an alt account my brother made a while back, and decided that I would boot it up and try something else out, just so see how it was doing something new. Things were going okay (I picked up the PLC), but I noticed a trend while I was playing. Every time I had a match where people were running active scanners, the whole team was destroyed.

So, I figured "Well, they're running in squads. I can't really fault them for that. What am I going to do with a Plasma Cannon against six guys with mics". But then I noticed that not only were all of these matches blowouts, they were worse than usual redline camping. I'd see players not even able to walk around the "safezone" that the MCC and ground spawn were supposed to provide. Rather, I saw people dropping like flies for just poking their heads around a corner, or having a grenade land exactly beneath their feat, thrown from some normally bad angle.

The point that I'm trying to make is that these active scanners feel like tool to re-enforce camping more than anything else. I've heard the argument that if you want to combat scanners, you need to stealth tank or HTFU. I don't think that people who say that realize the counter-intuitive situation that brings up. If I use two of the two/three low slots on my suit to avoid advanced scanners, then I'm too weak to fight the people who I'm trying to avoid in the first place.

I have no problem with teams running together. The active scanner just needs to be tweaked - cooldown or range, angle or some other penalty. Right now, things look very bleak from the other end of the beam.

Backwards math? Please explain.

Medium profile 50 dB

with dampening 5 it should be 45 db

one complex damp should be 32.5.

I'd like to confirm but the client doesn't show the actual in-game numbers. I have dampening 3 and two enhanced dampeners prevent scanning all the time while I'm wearing my logi suit.

I think you are right.

Somebody posted that DUST calculated the reduction to your scan profile incorrectly. I think that if everything were correct, a medium suit would be under 36 db (I think) with one complex mod, but that is not the case

Somebody posted that DUST calculated the reduction to your scan profile incorrectly. I think that if everything were correct, a medium suit would be under 36 db (I think) with one complex mod, but that is not the case

If something is spelled wrong in the dictionary, how would we know?


Couldn't the same logo be applied to that post? How do you know that the math is wrong if you didn't design the game and how they apply mods, skills, etc.?

Somebody posted that DUST calculated the reduction to your scan profile incorrectly. I think that if everything were correct, a medium suit would be under 36 db (I think) with one complex mod, but that is not the case

Well, someone did some testing in game and found out that following the math and the correct way to multiply the bonuses does not match up with what happens. I think its the same bug that reduced the speed penalty if you applied a reactive plate followed by an enhanced plate. DUST treats the value 0.00% Reduction as "reduction 1" and "3.00% as reduction 2, making your overall speed penalty less than what it would be with just one plate

they fixed all that. and the setup you're trying to think of is 1 complex dampener (25%) + level 5 dampening (2% per level = 10%) = 35%. so using a medium frame, 50db minus 35% =32.5db...enough to beat std and adv scanners

Sorry man but that math is wrong.

It doesnt add the percentages. The skill bonus takes effect first, then the 25% come off that.
So 10% off of 50 is 45dB. Then you have 25% off of that, so 33.75. Dust rounds up so thats 34dB.

With scouts Im pretty sure the math is similar. So it takes the racial bonus first, then the damp bonus, then whatever bonus you put on your suit along with stack penalty for multiple mods. That makes sense since having scout V is like getting your own complex damp and you avoid all but proto scanners.

The way its calculated is why its so terrible for "negative" bonuses. It builds an exponential curve down, while when doing "positive" bonus builds exponential curve up. Its why damage application and HP are the only useful mods in Dust.

From in game testing with scout 5 you can avoid all but proto scanners. Then you need a basic damp to avoid it. If someone has racial scout to 5 it serves no purpose to skill past level 3 dampening as it doesn't provide a "good enough" bonus for its SP requirement.

Sorry man but that math is wrong.

It doesnt add the percentages. The skill bonus takes effect first, then the 25% come off that.
So 10% off of 50 is 45dB. Then you have 25% off of that, so 33.75. Dust rounds up so thats 34dB.

With scouts Im pretty sure the math is similar. So it takes the racial bonus first, then the damp bonus, then whatever bonus you put on your suit along with stack penalty for multiple mods. That makes sense since having scout V is like getting your own complex damp and you avoid all but proto scanners.

The way its calculated is why its so terrible for "negative" bonuses. It builds an exponential curve down, while when doing "positive" bonus builds exponential curve up. Its why damage application and HP are the only useful mods in Dust.

From in game testing with scout 5 you can avoid all but proto scanners. Then you need a basic damp to avoid it. If someone has racial scout to 5 it serves no purpose to skill past level 3 dampening as it doesn't provide a "good enough" bonus for its SP requirement.

Math for Scout V:
Racial bonus 25% off 45 = 33.75
Bonus for damp skill III 6% off 33.75 = 31.725
Bonus for basic dmp 15% off 31.725 = 26.94
Rounds up to 27dB, just under pro level scanner.

Yep, Scout 5, Dampening 1 and one basic damp will get you below 28 dB.

Scout 3, Dampening 3 and one enhanced will too.

Scout 5, Dampening 5 and two complex are needed to get below the 15 dB model which seems a fair trade to be invisible to every method of scanning available.

It all seems pretty balanced to me.

Yep, Scout 5, Dampening 1 and one basic damp will get you below 28 dB.

Scout 3, Dampening 3 and one enhanced will too.

Scout 5, Dampening 5 and two complex are needed to get below the 15 dB model which seems a fair trade to be invisible to every method of scanning available.

It all seems pretty balanced to me.

I think that everyone should have to pay some sort of "price" to counter the scanners. But between the backwards math that prevents any suit from beating adv scanners with a complex dampener (I can't find the link now), beating the scan is *so* resource intensive that there is almost no point.

And the distance you can see out is less important/useful than being able to see if someone is waiting on a corner or climbing a ledge. Even more useful when the whole squad can see that

The way you present it brings up some valid points.

But I think adding more in depth electronic warfare would be more efficient than adjusting the scanners.

I don't disagree, however I think we'd have more luck waiting for a scanner adjustment than we would waiting for immediate EW updates. Once EW is properly implemented, then you can balance all the EW gear against each other, but until it's all in it needs to be balanced against what is currently in the game. Otherwise you ruin the balance of gameplay while we wait for an undisclosed amount of time HOPING that some day soon things will work correctly.

In my honest opinion, Profile Dampening needs a buff. Scanners can stay the same.

-Level 5 Gallente Scouts without any Profile Dampener should deceive most, if not all scanners.

-One Complex Profile Dampener on a Medium frame should be enough to deceive ADV scanners (godly for flankers and skirmishers).

-One Complex Profile Dampener on any Scout suit should be enough to deceive any scanner, even that Duvolle Focused or whatever is the name.

This way Scouts and medium frame infiltrators are going to have a consistent stealth advantage over tanked suits without giving away a significant portion of their HP.

People without Dampeners or light suits should be picked by scanners easily, no matter what.

-> Balanced.

She's making sense! quick someone stop her!
(Keri disappears into a burlap sack emblazoned with a CCP logo never to be seen again.)

In my honest opinion, Profile Dampening needs a buff. Scanners can stay the same.

-Level 5 Gallente Scouts without any Profile Dampener should deceive most, if not all scanners.

-One Complex Profile Dampener on a Medium frame should be enough to deceive ADV scanners (godly for flankers and skirmishers).

-One Complex Profile Dampener on any Scout suit should be enough to deceive any scanner, even that Duvolle Focused or whatever is the name.

This way Scouts and medium frame infiltrators are going to have a consistent stealth advantage over tanked suits without giving away a significant portion of their HP.

People without Dampeners or light suits should be picked by scanners easily, no matter what.

-> Balanced.