Even if in 1.7 vehicles finally feel right it won't matter if its impossible for me to afford to play the role I have all my sp in. Vehicles need to become cheaper or have the opportunity to make increased isk.

Everyday until its a reality.

Even if in 1.7 vehicles finally feel right it won't matter if its impossible for me to afford to play the role I have all my sp in. Vehicles need to become cheaper or have the opportunity to make increased isk.

Everyday until its a reality.

Heavys and scouts have the same problem.

Cost too much for so little benefit.

And we die more often.......

misleading title, i thought you were talking about the BULLSHIT 50 sec cooldown complex shield hardener

Heavys and scouts have the same problem.

Cost too much for so little benefit.

And we die more often.......

Shhh, don't tell them that we have to seriously invest into entire trees in order to be able to combat most things! Cores, weapons, suits, modules, other weapons as backup, equipment...

Apologies. Also I won't give it grief until i try it to be honest but if 1.7 sucks I'm outtie. Tanking hasn't been fun since Chrome. Murder taxis have been removed. Dropships are fun but isk sinks in the worst way.

I kind of like that vehicles are so unsustainable... I'd be happy with a 25% price cut, but I don't ever want it so that you can die and still break even; I'd like it if I could run a profit in my best fit after five matches, though.

While I agree keep something in mind.

In 1.7, most active militia modules offer the exact same benefit at prototype modules but with longer cooldowns or shorter duration. While this means that you will suffer from more downtime while your modules cool down, it also means that your burst tank is very similar to that of a maxed out tank. The Militia HAV has 1 less module than a standard HAV but the exact same base HP.

With that said, one could put together a militia HAV, or even a Standard HAV with militia modules and still have respectable defenses. I think this will help a lot of HAV pilots afford cheap militia tanks that are actually half decent, without breaking the bank.

Even if in 1.7 vehicles finally feel right it won't matter if its impossible for me to afford to play the role I have all my sp in. Vehicles need to become cheaper or have the opportunity to make increased isk.

Everyday until its a reality.

While I agree keep something in mind.

In 1.7, most active militia modules offer the exact same benefit at prototype modules but with longer cooldowns or shorter duration. While this means that you will suffer from more downtime while your modules cool down, it also means that your burst tank is very similar to that of a maxed out tank. The Militia HAV has 1 less module than a standard HAV but the exact same base HP.

With that said, one could put together a militia HAV, or even a Standard HAV with militia modules and still have respectable defenses. I think this will help a lot of HAV pilots afford cheap militia tanks that are actually half decent, without breaking the bank.

Yea, because you get the right to earn more money. You field a tank, you risk your tank, just like everyone else with their suits.

A proto turret costs 1m isk.

Modules are cheap comparatively.

I realize that this will never happen seeing how it's too late in the development but there should have been two separate xp (sp) systems acrued for each player - one for infantry skill and the other one for vehicles. This way would woulda avoided all this vehicle whinning of ppl that willingly speced into something they cant afford to run.

Yea, because you get the right to earn more money. You field a tank, you risk your tank, just like everyone else with their suits.

Capital ships are not that sustainable as well to lose every battle.

Even if in 1.7 vehicles finally feel right it won't matter if its impossible for me to afford to play the role I have all my sp in. Vehicles need to become cheaper or have the opportunity to make increased isk.

Everyday until its a reality.

If vehicles had the prices of a dropsuit, a single AV guy should be able to take out one in same timeframe of a Duvolle at point blank range.

Or you explode if you take one AV grenade, i know my proto suit explodes on a Militia Grade grenade, so only fair that if tanks can be spammed like dropsuits, they behave like dropsuits.

misleading title, i thought you were talking about the BULLSHIT 50 sec cooldown complex shield hardener

How about not using the most expensive gear possible?

My tank costs around 400k and I still do well enough to get 250k payouts from the match. That's about two matches to cover the loss.

You don't have to use complex modules and proto turrets every time. STD gear get the job done just as fast.

Capital ships are not that sustainable as well to lose every battle.

Yet such capital pilots are often provided for.. I wonder why and how?

misleading title, i thought you were talking about the BULLSHIT 50 sec cooldown complex shield hardener

I think tankers just don't get the idea, that you can't run proto every match.

There's only std tanks and adv modules. Clearly neither of you tank or you would know that.

I can run std suits every match and make a profit.

I can even run proto suits every match (unless teams are stacked) and make a profit. You bad sir?

What if you could skill into a ISK reduction fitting on the skill tree? 5%-10% discount per level. it is x6, core upgrade. Do it CCP.

No, i'm really good my best KD in a match was with a heavy 65\1.

What if you could skill into a ISK reduction fitting on the skill tree? 5%-10% discount per level. it is x6, core upgrade. Do it CCP.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you.

Back in chrome, tanks were very powerful, but very expensive. In fact, it was almost impossible to profit off of only pubs as a pure breed tanker, but it was possible for those who understood how to tank.

Tanks should not be sustainable for most people at the cost of being less powerful. If a tank costs 500,000 but can't survive an entire round without redljne sniping, then it defeats the purpose of sklljng into it. They need to potentially be god mode for those who put 15,000,000 SP into them and truly understand them. If they r cheap, we'll be seeing tanks take the place of the AR as OP spam weapon.

However, this means that only the best tankers will be paid enough by their corps to spam them, but then again, that is what happens to anything useful.

At the end of the day, if a tank engages only when its hardeners are on and doesn't fight walls of AV, it shouldn't die, except if he is blwtently disregarding the big rule of tanking: don't be a hero.

It worked in Chrome. The good tankers kept their tanks by running- a lot.

I think tankers just don't get the idea, that you can't run proto every match.

I don't think infantry understands the tank meta at all, and as such make silly statements like the two above.

Did you know that a heavy efficient rep can essentially make you immune from a standard scattered blaster? Tankers know this, and equip accordingly. Even a Scattered Neutron does not pack enough DPS to get through a heavy efficient rep quick enough to kill them. So unless you fancy losing your tank to anyone smart enough to roll a counter tank, you have to go big on the turrets.

Additionally, with the prevalence of jumping swarmers, you need maximum DPS out of your turrets to ensure you can drop them. Same thing with heavies popping out of LAV's. Your only hope is to drop them before they can do enough damage while you are running away.

That one extra hit needed with a STD turret is the difference between the enemy getting one AV grenade off or three. Given the wonky hit detection on blasters, you need every hit to be as potent as possible, because infantry can deal obscene amounts of damage in such small windows.

Not that I would expect infantry to understand all of that, they just want to farm WP off the vehicle users and act like they did something epic afterwards. Most of them are too stupid to realize that just because your AV allows you the power to solo tanks, you can't do it by running directly at them throwing AV nades.

That last part illustrates how comfortable the life is for AV troops right now, they are so used to tanks just popping, that they don't even attempt to think through how to destroy a tank, the strategy is just spam AV until it pops, which is hilarious.

People just don't understand what a tank isGǪ and use them as a murder weapon, but the tank is a weapon to smash enemies lines.

Heavys and scouts have the same problem.

Cost too much for so little benefit.

And we die more often.......

I'm gonna have to disagree with you.

Back in chrome, tanks were very powerful, but very expensive. In fact, it was almost impossible to profit off of only pubs as a pure breed tanker, but it was possible for those who understood how to tank.

Tanks should not be sustainable for most people at the cost of being less powerful. If a tank costs 500,000 but can't survive an entire round without redljne sniping, then it defeats the purpose of sklljng into it. They need to potentially be god mode for those who put 15,000,000 SP into them and truly understand them. If they r cheap, we'll be seeing tanks take the place of the AR as OP spam weapon.

However, this means that only the best tankers will be paid enough by their corps to spam them, but then again, that is what happens to anything useful.

At the end of the day, if a tank engages only when its hardeners are on and doesn't fight walls of AV, it shouldn't die, except if he is blwtently disregarding the big rule of tanking: don't be a hero.

It worked in Chrome. The good tankers kept their tanks by running- a lot.

Tanks can be cost efficient. To be cost efficient you need the right situation to bring a tank into. You would be foolish for example to bring one into an ambush game where primary combat is happening on multi tiered city like buildings. Such is the blight of the one trick pony.
Even in bad situations i've seen experienced pilots blow through AV lines to come out of the game with 23-0.
Learn the flow of combat, get experience, put the one trick pony out to pasture, and pick up an AR like the rest of the mercs.

That no one can afford to run without the backing of a sucessful pc corp*

Shut up until you learn some more.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say, Working as intended. If you wanna be in a vehicle all day everyday, it's gonna cost you some isk.

Shut up until you earn some more.

Well, if you are going to use the best modules and turrets this game has to offer, then no it shouldn't be cost effective at all. In fact, you should be penalized with the ISK cost.

Why don't we make PRO suits and weapons cheap so everyone can afford to run it every match 24/7? That would help balance things

This argument is so stupid it hurts. I run Pro minnie all day and make profits. If you stop being bad you could too.

But you don't tank or play infantry at any sort of respectable skill level so your opinion really is irrelevant.

1.) I could do very well in all PRO gear. I just can't afford to run it in anything but PC. Not everyone has a fat stack of cash and an ISK machine know as Molden Heath ya know.

2.) That's really hurtful coming from someone who I've yet to see in a match.

So your saying that PRO modules and gear should be cheaper? No.

(Also, why don't you actually address the argument being given to you instead of resorting to name calling and ad hominem. It usually makes your "argument" seem a whole lot more credible)

i think we all need to come to terms with the fact that only rich players in rich corps will be able to afford to purely spec tanks.

When a newberry comes into Learning Coalition chat and asks me to teach him how to tank, I say "no, get a good infantry game first, because tanking is not sustainable. It will not increase your KDR in accordance with how much isk you will lose in the process." then when they have a G-1 with an AR and their core skills up i consider it, but i dont encourage wannabe tankers to tank. it just makes them into someone who will quit the game.

Vehicles need to be cheaper, even if they are weaker. AV needs to be more consistent across tiers. Normal weapons should deal more damage to vehicles. Repairing needs to be slower and total HP needs to go up. Right now, you either burst damage the tank to death before it can react and the pilot screams OP, or you get them 80% down and they boost around a corner with their reppers turned on, only to return 30 seconds later, making the AV guy scream OP.

How about not using the most expensive gear possible?

My tank costs around 400k and I still do well enough to get 250k payouts from the match. That's about two matches to cover the loss.

You don't have to use complex modules and proto turrets every time. STD gear get the job done just as fast.

I edited my post. I was so taken aback by the stupidity of your statement I forgot to reply to it.

You just said you cant make a profit in pubs with pro gear. I do on my minnie. So I should be able to make profit on my std tanks, according to what you say.





This promotes the dying game circle I illustrated earlier.

EDIT: Also Char, Ive seen you about 5 times in game so far, usually FW I believe (might have just been skirmish) and I've never seen you run a tank.

If you didn't have a ridiculous amount of SP already built up, you would be running starter fits. I saw you murkin with that GEK.

Message from Godin: When going against Ika Forges and Wiki Swarms, you are forced to use the best you got (using PROTO turrets outside of PC is for scrubs though). Otherwise, you would lose even more ISK due to the **** poor fits that you have.

I guarantee I have more experience than you. It's not the point.

Would you play dust if you had to play 5 matches in a starter fit to play one game in a role specific suit? I doubt it.

This alt still exists? I'm surprised. Mintchip and Logibro must have been in a very good mood yesterday.

When going up against tanks using PRO and Complex gear, a STD and ADV Swarm launcher won't cut it.

The tank will just stomp everything. Your point?

Experience involving risk reward scenarios is quite a valid point because knowledge is power. Also whether or not I have more experience than you was not brought up in my original post.

5 Matches for just a suit, no. 2-3 for a proto suit, yes. Sitting on 203 mil. and climbing I feel proto is still far to cheap.
3-5 matches to afford a tank should be fairly acceptable.

This is all coming from a long time Eve player who feels that Dust should have greater consequences for failure. In my head your argument sounds like " why does my battleship not cost the same as a cruiser."