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Funkmaster Whale
Whale Farm
1135
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Posted - 2013.11.17 19:23:00 -
[61] - Quote
The problem isn't with GalLogis; it's more with the current Meta of the game.
Think about it.
Everyone uses ARs or Scrambler Rifles. The AR is 110%/90% shield/armor efficiency; the ScR is 120%/80% shield/armor efficiency.
MOST people have been shield-tanking up until when Armor was buffed. The GalLogi's and other armor tankers have taken advantage of the metagame and that's why you're starting to see a shift to armor. The fact that we don't have an AR equivalent that's 90%/110% shield/armor (besides the SMG, but I'm talking mid to long-range) is what makes it an issue.
When the Combat/Rail Rifle hit we'll hopefully see armor-tankers start to be more wary as people begin to adjust to the shifting meta of the game.
Let me play you the song of my people!
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4514
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Posted - 2013.11.17 19:26:00 -
[62] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:The problem isn't with GalLogis; it's more with the current Meta of the game.
Think about it.
Everyone uses ARs or Scrambler Rifles. The AR is 110%/90% shield/armor efficiency; the ScR is 120%/80% shield/armor efficiency.
MOST people have been shield-tanking up until when Armor was buffed. The GalLogi's and other armor tankers have taken advantage of the metagame and that's why you're starting to see a shift to armor. The fact that we don't have an AR equivalent that's 90%/110% shield/armor (besides the SMG, but I'm talking mid to long-range) is what makes it an issue.
When the Combat/Rail Rifle hit we'll hopefully see armor-tankers start to be more wary as people begin to adjust to the shifting meta of the game. That's a factor yes.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Robocop Junior
The Surrogates Of War
354
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Posted - 2013.11.17 19:37:00 -
[63] - Quote
I used to blame CCP for this game failing but now I blame "vets" and "forum warriors". Most of you blow hence your voice ideas blow hence the game blows. Perhaps the game was better in chromosome because CCP was doing it their way not yours?
P.S. Wwaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh |
Funkmaster Whale
Whale Farm
1137
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Posted - 2013.11.17 19:43:00 -
[64] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:That's a factor yes. That's honestly why I put down the CalAssault and AR and switched to Forging (and aim assist, but that's another issue...).
Honestly, even when I have superior gun game to whoever I'm fighting, I still get torn up because aim assist (I'm a M/KB user) and brick-tanked armor suits simply outclass me. I realize I can't compete with it and so I either (a) run away or (b) switch my tactics to tower Forging.
Call it being a p ussy, but hey, an alive p ussy.
Let me play you the song of my people!
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RKKR
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
457
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Posted - 2013.11.17 20:22:00 -
[65] - Quote
Man, my gallente logi had to use those triage hives just to survive for a long time, the armor update did help tremendously. Then 1.6 is here and suddenly all the lame-ass shield tankers are using it too...did armor change in 1.6? did the triage hives change in 1.6? MMMMMMHHHH what did change? ;-)
Idiots trying to point at logis because they want better assaults. Spam the ******* forum with assault threads instead. Thank you and if you want to change something then change it big time so the game gets fun again and not just one adjustment on one suit.
**** this ****, I just specced into minmatar logi and I'm not even at proto yet, standard gun, non-lethal flux nades and standard equipment. I still ended on top with a positive KDR. I'm pretty sure that the KDR can go higher if I'm using an assault suit too, but that's completely out of your minds isn't it.
****! Logi is OP or maybe you guys need to learn how to play.
The game isn't only about best damage or best health, but let me stop here before I blow your minds.
edit: If you need damage mods or 5hp/sec to survive in this game in it's current stage, then you are doing it wrong. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4515
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Posted - 2013.11.17 20:26:00 -
[66] - Quote
RKKR wrote:Man, my gallente logi had to use those triage hives just to survive for a long time, the armor update did help tremendously. Then 1.6 is here and suddenly all the lame-ass shield tankers are using it too...did armor change in 1.6? did the triage hives change in 1.6? MMMMMMHHHH what did change? ;-)
Idiots trying to point at logis because they want better assaults. Spam the ******* forum with assault threads instead. Thank you and if you want to change something then change it big time so the game gets fun again and not just one adjustment on one suit.
**** this ****, I just specced into minmatar logi and I'm not even at proto yet, standard gun, non-lethal flux nades and standard equipment. I still ended on top with a positive KDR. I'm pretty sure that the KDR can go higher if I'm using an assault suit too, but that's completely out of your minds isn't it.
****! Logi is OP or maybe you guys need to learn how to play.
The game isn't only about best damage or best health, but let me stop here before I blow your minds.
edit: If you need damage mods or 5hp/sec to survive in this game in it's current stage, then you are doing it wrong. "If you need damage mods or 5hp/sec to survive in this game in it's current stage, then you are doing it wrong" Then you won't oppose to losing it now would you?
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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RKKR
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
457
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Posted - 2013.11.17 20:36:00 -
[67] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:RKKR wrote:Man, my gallente logi had to use those triage hives just to survive for a long time, the armor update did help tremendously. Then 1.6 is here and suddenly all the lame-ass shield tankers are using it too...did armor change in 1.6? did the triage hives change in 1.6? MMMMMMHHHH what did change? ;-)
Idiots trying to point at logis because they want better assaults. Spam the ******* forum with assault threads instead. Thank you and if you want to change something then change it big time so the game gets fun again and not just one adjustment on one suit.
**** this ****, I just specced into minmatar logi and I'm not even at proto yet, standard gun, non-lethal flux nades and standard equipment. I still ended on top with a positive KDR. I'm pretty sure that the KDR can go higher if I'm using an assault suit too, but that's completely out of your minds isn't it.
****! Logi is OP or maybe you guys need to learn how to play.
The game isn't only about best damage or best health, but let me stop here before I blow your minds.
edit: If you need damage mods or 5hp/sec to survive in this game in it's current stage, then you are doing it wrong. "If you need damage mods or 5hp/sec to survive in this game in it's current stage, then you are doing it wrong" Then you won't oppose to losing it now would you?
No.
But it is however stupid that a logi can't repare himself with a rep tool, so a sort of auto-repair when not in battle would be nice.
and
Damage mods? LOL, I only use those when running my plasma cannon, I guess that is too OP too? |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4519
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Posted - 2013.11.17 20:41:00 -
[68] - Quote
RKKR wrote:Cat Merc wrote:RKKR wrote:Man, my gallente logi had to use those triage hives just to survive for a long time, the armor update did help tremendously. Then 1.6 is here and suddenly all the lame-ass shield tankers are using it too...did armor change in 1.6? did the triage hives change in 1.6? MMMMMMHHHH what did change? ;-)
Idiots trying to point at logis because they want better assaults. Spam the ******* forum with assault threads instead. Thank you and if you want to change something then change it big time so the game gets fun again and not just one adjustment on one suit.
**** this ****, I just specced into minmatar logi and I'm not even at proto yet, standard gun, non-lethal flux nades and standard equipment. I still ended on top with a positive KDR. I'm pretty sure that the KDR can go higher if I'm using an assault suit too, but that's completely out of your minds isn't it.
****! Logi is OP or maybe you guys need to learn how to play.
The game isn't only about best damage or best health, but let me stop here before I blow your minds.
edit: If you need damage mods or 5hp/sec to survive in this game in it's current stage, then you are doing it wrong. "If you need damage mods or 5hp/sec to survive in this game in it's current stage, then you are doing it wrong" Then you won't oppose to losing it now would you? No. But it is however stupid that a logi can't repare himself with a rep tool, so a sort of auto-repair when not in battle would be nice. and Damage mods? LOL, I only use those when running my plasma cannon, I guess that is too OP too? Dmods are not OP usually. For example, using Dmods requires my assault to sacrfifice heavily on armor and repair, leaving me with a total of 449 armor and something like 7hp/s.
On my logi? LOLNO 750 ARMOR ANYONE?
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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RKKR
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
457
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Posted - 2013.11.17 21:10:00 -
[69] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote: Dmods are not OP usually. For example, using Dmods requires my assault to sacrfifice heavily on armor and repair, leaving me with a total of 449 armor and something like 7hp/s.
On my logi? LOLNO 750 ARMOR ANYONE?
My STD gallente logi with around 450 armor and 5 hp/s and a militia AR does just fine actually, but I get your point. I just never run my logi without equipment or damage mods, I do have that kind of armor, but I need that to stay alive and support my teammates really. I also make sure I'm around blue dots who can protect me when needed. Well maybe I'll play the game just (as it is supposed to be) wrong.
I'm just not really sure why everyone is obsessed with small repairs rates, the militia AR is even powerful enough to take on a heavy and anything that has a tiny repair rate. Find a logi with a rep tool/triage hives if you want those reps, just as I'm around blue dots for my own safety (well unless they are random blue dots).
Also this game isn't about your total HP only, but hey maybe I do play the game wrong.
Also get rid of those damage mods, you'll be able to do enough damage without them.
It's not the logi that's wrong in this game, they just need to redesign all the suit/roles again, so it's pointless to make these kind of threads.
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4523
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Posted - 2013.11.17 21:18:00 -
[70] - Quote
RKKR wrote:Cat Merc wrote: Dmods are not OP usually. For example, using Dmods requires my assault to sacrfifice heavily on armor and repair, leaving me with a total of 449 armor and something like 7hp/s.
On my logi? LOLNO 750 ARMOR ANYONE?
My STD gallente logi with around 450 armor and 5 hp/s and a militia AR does just fine actually, but I get your point. I just never run my logi without equipment or damage mods, I do have that kind of armor, but I need that to stay alive and support my teammates really. I also make sure I'm around blue dots who can protect me when needed. Well maybe I'll play the game just (as it is supposed to be) wrong. I'm just not really sure why everyone is obsessed with small repairs rates, the militia AR is even powerful enough to take on a heavy and anything that has a tiny repair rate. Find a logi with a rep tool/triage hives if you want those reps, just as I'm around blue dots for my own safety (well unless they are random blue dots). Also this game isn't about your total HP only, but hey maybe I do play the game wrong. Also get rid of those damage mods, you'll be able to do enough damage without them. It's not the logi that's wrong in this game, they just need to redesign all the suit/roles again, so it's pointless to make these kind of threads. That fit I told you was a Gal Proto :X
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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RKKR
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
458
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Posted - 2013.11.17 21:24:00 -
[71] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:RKKR wrote:Cat Merc wrote: Dmods are not OP usually. For example, using Dmods requires my assault to sacrfifice heavily on armor and repair, leaving me with a total of 449 armor and something like 7hp/s.
On my logi? LOLNO 750 ARMOR ANYONE?
My STD gallente logi with around 450 armor and 5 hp/s and a militia AR does just fine actually, but I get your point. I just never run my logi without equipment or damage mods, I do have that kind of armor, but I need that to stay alive and support my teammates really. I also make sure I'm around blue dots who can protect me when needed. Well maybe I'll play the game just (as it is supposed to be) wrong. I'm just not really sure why everyone is obsessed with small repairs rates, the militia AR is even powerful enough to take on a heavy and anything that has a tiny repair rate. Find a logi with a rep tool/triage hives if you want those reps, just as I'm around blue dots for my own safety (well unless they are random blue dots). Also this game isn't about your total HP only, but hey maybe I do play the game wrong. Also get rid of those damage mods, you'll be able to do enough damage without them. It's not the logi that's wrong in this game, they just need to redesign all the suit/roles again, so it's pointless to make these kind of threads. That fit I told you was a Gal Proto :X
I know, but you wasted some slots on useless stuff. I'm just saying that I'm doing pretty fine with my STD logi, so you shouldn't be that bad with an assault suit, especially if you get rid of the useless stuff.
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4523
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Posted - 2013.11.17 21:27:00 -
[72] - Quote
RKKR wrote:Cat Merc wrote:RKKR wrote:Cat Merc wrote: Dmods are not OP usually. For example, using Dmods requires my assault to sacrfifice heavily on armor and repair, leaving me with a total of 449 armor and something like 7hp/s.
On my logi? LOLNO 750 ARMOR ANYONE?
My STD gallente logi with around 450 armor and 5 hp/s and a militia AR does just fine actually, but I get your point. I just never run my logi without equipment or damage mods, I do have that kind of armor, but I need that to stay alive and support my teammates really. I also make sure I'm around blue dots who can protect me when needed. Well maybe I'll play the game just (as it is supposed to be) wrong. I'm just not really sure why everyone is obsessed with small repairs rates, the militia AR is even powerful enough to take on a heavy and anything that has a tiny repair rate. Find a logi with a rep tool/triage hives if you want those reps, just as I'm around blue dots for my own safety (well unless they are random blue dots). Also this game isn't about your total HP only, but hey maybe I do play the game wrong. Also get rid of those damage mods, you'll be able to do enough damage without them. It's not the logi that's wrong in this game, they just need to redesign all the suit/roles again, so it's pointless to make these kind of threads. That fit I told you was a Gal Proto :X I know, but you wasted some slots on useless stuff. I'm just saying that I'm doing pretty fine with my STD logi, so you shouldn't be that bad with an assault suit, especially if you get rid of the useless stuff. What useless stuff? 2x damage mods 1x Complex extender (I don't survive grenades otherwise)
GEK 38 Syndicate SMG
Allotek Hive
M1 Locus
2x basic plates 2x enhanced armor reps
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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RKKR
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
458
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Posted - 2013.11.17 21:32:00 -
[73] - Quote
You previously asked me if I would care if they took my 5hp/sec away.
Try to find your answer there. |
Eldest Dragon
0uter.Heaven Proficiency V.
373
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 22:04:00 -
[74] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Cat Merc wrote:In response to this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=121624If armor gets nerfed because Gallente logi is ridiculous, I will have a litter of kittens, send them to the CCP Shanghai office, and make them poop on the entire office. No, the Gallente assault isn't the best suit, and armor isn't the best tank, if you actually do the math, Caldari assault comes out on top. (Psst, try putting a CPU extender in the low slot, see what happens) Not to mention that the current meta is anti shield weapons (SCR and AR). The problem is logis. Logis get inherent 5hp/s (Which is huge, that's like a free complex module), can get ridiculos eHP compared to the assault AND fit 3x complex damage mods AND get equipment. So all of you people who say "lolno, armor is the best cuz dmods and stuffz", my Gallente assault barely has any tank if I try to use damage mods. 6.25 hp/s and 441 armor anyone? Armor was just buffed after months of being useless, all it got was +20HP and slightly less speed penalty. Go F*** yourself if you don't like it. 1. I agree, armour is not OP. Shields get fast regen, no need for repper, no movement penalty, and resistance versus the constant core locus spam. I think shields versus armour is quite well balanced right now. 2. For the thousandth time, logis are not OP. Lower movement speed and lack of sidearm are massive drawbacks. If I had a respec I'd probably get out of logi and into assault.
You my good sir, are fkin crazy, logi's are op. There is no doubt about it, cal and gal logi can stack 3x damage mods and have more hp than my proto assault, more hp and more damage = beats me every time. And wtf do they need a sidearm for, when part of there clip lays my proto down in .2 sec, fact of the matter is any logi is better than the assault for obvious reasons. Anyone who says otherwise is either trolling or really stupid.
When your playing dust and your frustrated...if all else fails...turn off the ps3 works every time.
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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
1171
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Posted - 2013.11.17 22:34:00 -
[75] - Quote
Eldest Dragon wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Cat Merc wrote:In response to this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=121624If armor gets nerfed because Gallente logi is ridiculous, I will have a litter of kittens, send them to the CCP Shanghai office, and make them poop on the entire office. No, the Gallente assault isn't the best suit, and armor isn't the best tank, if you actually do the math, Caldari assault comes out on top. (Psst, try putting a CPU extender in the low slot, see what happens) Not to mention that the current meta is anti shield weapons (SCR and AR). The problem is logis. Logis get inherent 5hp/s (Which is huge, that's like a free complex module), can get ridiculos eHP compared to the assault AND fit 3x complex damage mods AND get equipment. So all of you people who say "lolno, armor is the best cuz dmods and stuffz", my Gallente assault barely has any tank if I try to use damage mods. 6.25 hp/s and 441 armor anyone? Armor was just buffed after months of being useless, all it got was +20HP and slightly less speed penalty. Go F*** yourself if you don't like it. 1. I agree, armour is not OP. Shields get fast regen, no need for repper, no movement penalty, and resistance versus the constant core locus spam. I think shields versus armour is quite well balanced right now. 2. For the thousandth time, logis are not OP. Lower movement speed and lack of sidearm are massive drawbacks. If I had a respec I'd probably get out of logi and into assault. You my good sir, are fkin crazy, logi's are op. There is no doubt about it, cal and gal logi can stack 3x damage mods and have more hp than my proto assault, more hp and more damage = beats me every time. And wtf do they need a sidearm for, when part of there clip lays my proto down in .2 sec, fact of the matter is any logi is better than the assault for obvious reasons. Anyone who says otherwise is either trolling or really stupid.
What about the Amarr and Minmatar Logistics then? Should they get nerfed just because of the sins of the tank-focused races? Amarr Logi has a paucity of slots and fitting compared to the others, and not enough equipment slots til Proto to run a full Logistics suite, while Minmatar is low across the board, and gets a bonus to Hacking. Unless he can hack your suit, that's as threatening as the Minmatar Scout's melee bonus.
Furthermore, the Amarr Assault has a bonus that makes people want to use it instead of the Amarr Logi for combat, so maybe the other suits should take notice of that. Logi aren't OP, or at least the Amarr and Minmatar ones. The Assault suits are UP. As are Scouts and Heavies, but that's a whole new can of worms.
P.S. Anyone who stacks THREE damage mods, one of the few mods that suffers from stacking penalties, is a damned fool. I know there isn't much to stick in the high slots but one of the shield mods would get much more mileage than a THIRD damage module.
ECM Equipment
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Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
230
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Posted - 2013.11.18 07:12:00 -
[76] - Quote
Eldest Dragon wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Cat Merc wrote:In response to this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=121624If armor gets nerfed because Gallente logi is ridiculous, I will have a litter of kittens, send them to the CCP Shanghai office, and make them poop on the entire office. No, the Gallente assault isn't the best suit, and armor isn't the best tank, if you actually do the math, Caldari assault comes out on top. (Psst, try putting a CPU extender in the low slot, see what happens) Not to mention that the current meta is anti shield weapons (SCR and AR). The problem is logis. Logis get inherent 5hp/s (Which is huge, that's like a free complex module), can get ridiculos eHP compared to the assault AND fit 3x complex damage mods AND get equipment. So all of you people who say "lolno, armor is the best cuz dmods and stuffz", my Gallente assault barely has any tank if I try to use damage mods. 6.25 hp/s and 441 armor anyone? Armor was just buffed after months of being useless, all it got was +20HP and slightly less speed penalty. Go F*** yourself if you don't like it. 1. I agree, armour is not OP. Shields get fast regen, no need for repper, no movement penalty, and resistance versus the constant core locus spam. I think shields versus armour is quite well balanced right now. 2. For the thousandth time, logis are not OP. Lower movement speed and lack of sidearm are massive drawbacks. If I had a respec I'd probably get out of logi and into assault. You my good sir, are fkin crazy, logi's are op. There is no doubt about it, cal and gal logi can stack 3x damage mods and have more hp than my proto assault, more hp and more damage = beats me every time. And wtf do they need a sidearm for, when part of there clip lays my proto down in .2 sec, fact of the matter is any logi is better than the assault for obvious reasons. Anyone who says otherwise is either trolling or really stupid. Are you saying you never use your sidearm? Because I die due to lack of one pretty often. One red down, 20 rounds, another down, another 30 rounds, third red - oh whoops, I can only put 10 in him, then I'm empty and target practice while I'm reloading. Avoiding this situation is worth two slots in my opinion, in which case the gap between the suits is not so great. If it's not worth that much to you then I guess the assault isn't for you.
Anyway, just because I said the logi isn't OP doesn't mean I don't think the assault is slightly UP. I do think it's an issue that you can't even use proto weapon+grenade+advanced equipment+decent modules without fitting a CPU extender on some proto assaults. As I said at the top of the second page, a slight buff to CPU/PG for assaults would be a reasonable fix.
A huge nerf to logis, on the other hand, is not at all reasonable. It would be bad faith of CCP to have any drastic changes to logis after they've already rebalanced the suits. Let's be clear, everyone who currently has SP in medium suits (other than Amarr) made that decision with the clear understanding that the difference between the suits is assault=better basic stats+sidearm and logi=more slots+equipment. |
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