DUST Search - Is SCr the new TacAR of old?

Cody Sietz wrote:

Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:

Cody Sietz wrote:

Zero Harpuia wrote:

Cody Sietz wrote:

So did the TAC, it was nerfed.

The TAR was nerfed because people used modded controllers to fire it at ridiculous speeds with no downside. Try doing that with the ScR and it will burn your hands and seize.

I believe people are doing the same withe the semi ScR.

With no skills in it I can fire off max of 16 shots before it overheats. I tested this several times today. I'm gonna ask my buddy that has max operation skills in it to see how many he can do later today. I'm guessing it will be around 20-25 before overheat.

I'd imagine you can turn a ScR into a burst ScR with a modded controller and fire 9-10 rounds with each button press.

You really don't want to mod your controller because the heat generation is per shot. If you mod your controller, every button press will be accompanied by 50 damage to you and a hissing sound as your weapon is disabled.

Also, the weapon operation skill has no effect on the number of shots you can fire. It just makes it cool down quicker - the actual heat generation is unaffected. Continuous fire will still yield the same number of shots - if you stagger your shots you will notice a slight improvement though.

I believe it's per second, and I've timed it at five seconds. I can not overheat it faster then that.

Also, sorry I thought the operations skill reduced the heat build up per sec. Maybe I'm getting it mixed up with the laser rifle or the Amarr assault bonus.

either way, he has max Amarr Assault and I'll ask him to test it out. If that's the case it should increase the firing time to 7 seconds max(it's a 300 heat build up threshold and the STD ScR has a 60 heat build up per sec so 25 percent off of that should drop it down to 45 ish)

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ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 417	Posted - 2013.11.11 21:16:00 - [61] - Quote Damn Imperials! DUST514 belongs to the ARs!
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1389	Posted - 2013.11.11 21:26:00 - [62] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: So did the TAC, it was nerfed. The TAR was nerfed because people used modded controllers to fire it at ridiculous speeds with no downside. Try doing that with the ScR and it will burn your hands and seize. I believe people are doing the same withe the semi ScR. With no skills in it I can fire off max of 16 shots before it overheats. I tested this several times today. I'm gonna ask my buddy that has max operation skills in it to see how many he can do later today. I'm guessing it will be around 20-25 before overheat. I'd imagine you can turn a ScR into a burst ScR with a modded controller and fire 9-10 rounds with each button press. You really don't want to mod your controller because the heat generation is per shot. If you mod your controller, every button press will be accompanied by 50 damage to you and a hissing sound as your weapon is disabled. Also, the weapon operation skill has no effect on the number of shots you can fire. It just makes it cool down quicker - the actual heat generation is unaffected. Continuous fire will still yield the same number of shots - if you stagger your shots you will notice a slight improvement though. I believe it's per second, and I've timed it at five seconds. I can not overheat it faster then that. Also, sorry I thought the operations skill reduced the heat build up per sec. Maybe I'm getting it mixed up with the laser rifle or the Amarr assault bonus. either way, he has max Amarr Assault and I'll ask him to test it out. If that's the case it should increase the firing time to 7 seconds max(it's a 300 heat build up threshold and the STD ScR has a 60 heat build up per sec so 25 percent off of that should drop it down to 45 ish)
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1564	Posted - 2013.11.11 21:55:00 - [63] - Quote It's balanced because of its ability to overheat. On a side note, SHHHHHH DONT LET THE AR PEOPLE FIND OUT "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle
medomai grey WarRavens League of Infamy 328	Posted - 2013.11.11 21:59:00 - [64] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: The AR and the ASCR are equals. Yes the ASCR has more side to side sway, but it has NO vertical recoil at all. It also has a larger clip, tighter hip fire and more range. The saving grace of the AR is that it has no recoil for the first 15 rounds in it's mag. The last time I used the assault scrambler rifle it had more spread and more kick than the gallente assault rifle. Did the assault scrambler rifle get a ninja buff or are you making up BS? Blatant Dust_514 recruiting in the silliest of places. :P
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1148	Posted - 2013.11.11 22:16:00 - [65] - Quote Thorgen Barr wrote: Did you seriously just say the AScR is weaker than the AR against LAVS ? Are you for real ?? What the hell are you doing shooting at LAVS with a flipping AR/AScR ? So that's why there are some idiots shooting at my lav and doing nothing to it .. I thought it was players just out of the academy On a serious note ScR are laser weaponry they do 120% damage v shields and 80% damage v armour whereas AR's do 110% damage to shields and 90% damage to armour therefore it will obviously be better against the shield tanking Caldari than the often dual tanking (although it's usually more armour tanking than shield tanking) heavies and the AR will be better v anything that is slightly more armour based ... I understand the basics of each weapon's shield/armor bias. As for LAVs, if you fire at their weak point you can do quite a decent chunk of damage with small arms fire, especially the ubiquitous Militia and 'free' BPO LAVs. If it is one guy firing, it may be enough to scare off the LAV, two and they might kill the pilot before he realizes he is the target. A full squad can concentrate fire and make minced metal of an LAV. An LLAV on the other hand is a yellow god and should not be fired upon, lest you incur its wrath. Also, tone down the venom. If you think that people are idiots for shooting at LAVs then by all means think that. It will offer me immense schadenfreude when I shoot you out of your car/fill your hood full of bolts. ECM Equipment
Patrick57 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 1375	Posted - 2013.11.11 22:22:00 - [66] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: ha, most won't speak on the SCR because they use em. They will talk about the AR to no end though. I use Scramblers and Assault Rifles, and can honestly say that as of now the AR is better. Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. -Mark Twain :D
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1148	Posted - 2013.11.11 22:27:00 - [67] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: So did the TAC, it was nerfed. The TAR was nerfed because people used modded controllers to fire it at ridiculous speeds with no downside. Try doing that with the ScR and it will burn your hands and seize. I believe people are doing the same withe the semi ScR. With no skills in it I can fire off max of 16 shots before it overheats. I tested this several times today. I'm gonna ask my buddy that has max operation skills in it to see how many he can do later today. I'm guessing it will be around 20-25 before overheat. I'd imagine you can turn a ScR into a burst ScR with a modded controller and fire 9-10 rounds with each button press. You really don't want to mod your controller because the heat generation is per shot. If you mod your controller, every button press will be accompanied by 50 damage to you and a hissing sound as your weapon is disabled. Also, the weapon operation skill has no effect on the number of shots you can fire. It just makes it cool down quicker - the actual heat generation is unaffected. Continuous fire will still yield the same number of shots - if you stagger your shots you will notice a slight improvement though. I believe it's per second, and I've timed it at five seconds. I can not overheat it faster then that. Also, sorry I thought the operations skill reduced the heat build up per sec. Maybe I'm getting it mixed up with the laser rifle or the Amarr assault bonus. either way, he has max Amarr Assault and I'll ask him to test it out. If that's the case it should increase the firing time to 7 seconds max(it's a 300 heat build up threshold and the STD ScR has a 60 heat build up per sec so 25 percent off of that should drop it down to 45 ish) I had heard that they fixed it around the time of 1.5 and made it per shot instead of per second, but I could be wrong. 'Little' things like that don't make it into the patch notes... either way, they did say that they would fix it, as the overheat mechanic at the time only worked with constant-fire weaponry. I'd run those tests again, see if you get the same results. ECM Equipment
8213 The Neutral Zone 653	Posted - 2013.11.11 22:45:00 - [68] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: I just don't like that people can fire it so quickly like the they use to with the TAC. Like with a modded controller or something. Using a modded controller on a SCR would be the dumbest thing imaginable. How is that so many people don't know the gun has over heat and seize after 20 rounds fired in rapid succession? You can spray that thing as fast as you want, but then you have to deal with 5 seconds of not being armed. Because once it over heats, you aren't allowed to switch to your sidearm. You have to wait until it cools back down before you can fight again... Lasers are the same, but a laser feedback will kill the user more often than not. I've died countless times in CQC using the SCR because against 3 or more people, its useless in CQC. You'll fight tooth and nail, but commit suicide when the feedback gets you. Switching back and forth from sidearm to SCR is something that takes patients and skill. The top SCR users in the game (and I'd like to think I'm somewhere on that list, even if its near the bottom) make it LOOK easy, but its actually not. Anyone who uses the SCR knows better. Its a gun that people either dominate with, get dominated with. To anyone that says the gun is OP, pick it up and give it a try for a week... come back and tell me how you did and just how easy it was... On a side note. My connection in this game is so bad that I don't have aim assist (I have it enabled but it doesn't work, my barrel doesn't react to it at all. Playing with it off makes no difference) so if I get a kill, a lot of work went into it. Only noobs think the SCR is OP. I get mail all the time getting called a hacker because I one shotted some kid in a starter fit. 99% of my SCR kills comes from some noob who thinks he's invincible with his 300HP and AR, so he charges me head on... With a charge shot volly, it kills faster in the sense that the person dies before they can even react, but the TTK is longer because of the wait for the charge to build up and aim it first.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 4896	Posted - 2013.11.11 22:50:00 - [69] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: So did the TAC, it was nerfed. The TAR was nerfed because people used modded controllers to fire it at ridiculous speeds with no downside. Try doing that with the ScR and it will burn your hands and seize. I believe people are doing the same withe the semi ScR. With no skills in it I can fire off max of 16 shots before it overheats. I tested this several times today. I'm gonna ask my buddy that has max operation skills in it to see how many he can do later today. I'm guessing it will be around 20-25 before overheat. I'd imagine you can turn a ScR into a burst ScR with a modded controller and fire 9-10 rounds with each button press. You really don't want to mod your controller because the heat generation is per shot. If you mod your controller, every button press will be accompanied by 50 damage to you and a hissing sound as your weapon is disabled. Also, the weapon operation skill has no effect on the number of shots you can fire. It just makes it cool down quicker - the actual heat generation is unaffected. Continuous fire will still yield the same number of shots - if you stagger your shots you will notice a slight improvement though. I believe it's per second, and I've timed it at five seconds. I can not overheat it faster then that. Also, sorry I thought the operations skill reduced the heat build up per sec. Maybe I'm getting it mixed up with the laser rifle or the Amarr assault bonus. either way, he has max Amarr Assault and I'll ask him to test it out. If that's the case it should increase the firing time to 7 seconds max(it's a 300 heat build up threshold and the STD ScR has a 60 heat build up per sec so 25 percent off of that should drop it down to 45 ish) It's not per second. If you fire 1 shot every second, it will not overheat, thus disproving the per second idea. I can see where you're coming from though - sometimes when staggering your shots just a little bit you'll still get the same number of shots out but I think that's more due to the weapon not cooling down sufficiently in that time and so the shot still puts you over the overheating threshold. The bonus affects cool-down. It could indirectly affect how many shots you can fire if you stagger them but in a trigger blitz it'll have no effect. With a maxed out Amarr Assault it starts to vary depending on how quickly you can hammer the trigger - I personally tend to get around 21 in a trigger blitz. However, as I quite firmly believe it's per shot heat generation, the weapon will overheat very quickly if used with a modded controller. Additionally, although there is not much recoil, there is a slight amount which would be enough to put you noticeably off target if firing at those speeds. Level 4 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 358	Posted - 2013.11.11 22:58:00 - [70] - Quote Fire of Prometheus wrote: It's balanced because of its ability to overheat. On a side note, SHHHHHH DONT LET THE AR PEOPLE FIND OUT too late and dont care

Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1179	Posted - 2013.11.11 22:59:00 - [71] - Quote Arcanine Rising wrote: When people can't entertain the possibility that their weapon isn't balanced...you know your playing crutch514. Look around for comments expressing openness of opinion...you'll be left wanting. Shame really. When people cry nerf every time they get killed by a weapon and CCP listens, that's when it becomes crutch514 The SR has obvious disadvantages as other people have said, and while its great in some scenarios, its terrible in others. Its good but I don't really think it needs a nerf, and I hardly use the damn thing. Most times I just use the proto ASR or an SMG. Marston VC, STB director
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1389	Posted - 2013.11.11 23:14:00 - [72] - Quote @Arkena, it does say per second in the description, but I understand what you mean. I guess maybe they got it mixed up or that's if your pressing the button as fast as you can and getting the full 705 rounds per minute. I'm not saying the weapon is OP, I just wanna be clear about that. It's just that I think with a modded control it is possible to abuse the weapon.
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 358	Posted - 2013.11.11 23:18:00 - [73] - Quote Marston VC wrote: Arcanine Rising wrote: When people can't entertain the possibility that their weapon isn't balanced...you know your playing crutch514. Look around for comments expressing openness of opinion...you'll be left wanting. Shame really. When people cry nerf every time they get killed by a weapon and CCP listens, that's when it becomes crutch514 The SR has obvious disadvantages as other people have said, and while its great in some scenarios, its terrible in others. Its good but I don't really think it needs a nerf, and I hardly use the damn thing. Most times I just use the proto ASR or an SMG. disadvantages that can be ignored
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1150	Posted - 2013.11.12 01:48:00 - [74] - Quote Johnny Guilt wrote: Marston VC wrote: Arcanine Rising wrote: When people can't entertain the possibility that their weapon isn't balanced...you know your playing crutch514. Look around for comments expressing openness of opinion...you'll be left wanting. Shame really. When people cry nerf every time they get killed by a weapon and CCP listens, that's when it becomes crutch514 The SR has obvious disadvantages as other people have said, and while its great in some scenarios, its terrible in others. Its good but I don't really think it needs a nerf, and I hardly use the damn thing. Most times I just use the proto ASR or an SMG. disadvantages that can be ignored but yeah maybe it doesn't need a nerf just fixed Explain how they can be ignored, I'm quite curious as to understand your line of thought on the matter. ECM Equipment
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2087	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:09:00 - [75] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Yes? Does that mean a semi auto weapon should fire faster then? It has high alpha strike power. That's its thing. Get over it. A semi auto weapon fires as fast as you can pull the trigger, if that's faster than an automatic, then it should be. So did the TAC, it was nerfed. Yeah, because it could maintain that kind of DPS with almost no spread and no overheat for dozens of rounds. No.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2087	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:11:00 - [76] - Quote low genius wrote: I don't care how poorly balanced a gun is, but I want to know what kind of a gun is firing at me. the scrabler is very hard to distinguish from the ar In a gun-fight. i'd like visual or audio cues. Beams of light? No.
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 358	Posted - 2013.11.13 05:54:00 - [77] - Quote continuing the thread, anyone think the hip fire accuracy cross hairs are tight for a weapon based by design to be a mid range weapon not a close to mid weapon?(excluding the Ascr of course)
Rei Shepard Spectre II 916	Posted - 2013.11.13 07:49:00 - [78] - Quote Johnny Guilt wrote: continuing the thread, anyone think the hip fire accuracy cross hairs are tight for a weapon based by design to be a mid range weapon not a close to mid weapon?(excluding the Ascr of course) Most people cannot make full use of the weapon in a cqc engagement, especially when there is more then 1 person involved most SCR users die, except the bloody good ones and they then make it look so easy going trough a pack of 4-5-7 people in cqc. Its actually f*cking difficult to do, you are doing constant threat assesments and overheat checks while keeping targets in your crosshairs all the while swapping to the SMG when the SCR gets to hot. I let Madlax play with my character yesterday while i played with his character at my place (i got 2 ps3's), he just started speccing into it and we were contemplating if it was my suit and my 26m SP giving me such a huge advantage because, well i keep going 40+ kills with it on numerous games troughout a playsession, the opposition really has to be 2 teams to give me a hard time, or one team like Blauhelme, Rainbow awesome level, most teams don't even slow me down enough. My skills with SCR and SMG are all at 5 (not reload and ammo), but all the reveland ones. So i played with the SCR with only the main SCR skill at 5, rest at 2 in a Caldari Assault suit, no SMG skills (toxin), almost no armor, no proto armor hives and my scores troughout the evening where hardly diffrent, with only 18 rounds before overheat instead of my ussual 22-24 rounds, the SCR felt tight crammed, but everyone kept dieng the same way. Madlax on the other hand with my suit, gun and SP, hives etc loved it but did not come close to the slaying i did with his suit, in fact his scores where the same as with his own suit and his Duvolle.... As a result of the test it was very clear there was a skillgap with the SCR, not a weapon / SP / suit advantage gap. Unless its someone i know that is good with the SCR, i never see random scrubs go 40+ with it in any game ive ever played, they most of the time still die in 5 vs 1 cqc engagements as if they had fitted a Duvolle. Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"


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