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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1142
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Posted - 2013.11.11 15:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Keri Starlight wrote:With a 78m range it's going to be insane. I won't be able to stay competitive with my weapon anymore, I'm going to say goodbye to my love (Tac AR, which will become completely obsolete) and join the Darkside (Rail or Scrambler).
I will probably spec in both of them, so whatever gets nerfed, I will always have a powerful weapon to play with. This is why I'm saving 1+ million SP.
This is kindof the POINT of the Scrambler Rifle. The Tactical Assault Rifle is the Gallente ripoff of the Scrambler Rifle, like the Assalt Scrambler Rifle is the Amarrian ripoff of the Blaster Rifle. The Scrambler Rifle is SUPPOSED to seem better than the TAR, just like the AR is better than the AScR. You aren't supposed to be able to spec into just one gun (AR) and get all the roles covered (AR and TAR). Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's the way we do it in New Eden.
ECM Equipment
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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1144
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Posted - 2013.11.11 16:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Keri Starlight wrote:With a 78m range it's going to be insane. I won't be able to stay competitive with my weapon anymore, I'm going to say goodbye to my love (Tac AR, which will become completely obsolete) and join the Darkside (Rail or Scrambler).
I will probably spec in both of them, so whatever gets nerfed, I will always have a powerful weapon to play with. This is why I'm saving 1+ million SP. Go SCR. It's going to be the next big thing. I hate what they doing to the AR. I truly felt it needed no change besides adding the other racial variants.
If the AR needs no changes, then every suit in the game needs an HP boost. The Standard AR does 425 damage per second, before applying shield/armor bias, damage modifiers, or even proficiency. Because of the ridiculous accuracy of the weapon, nonexistent spread, and lack of recoil until the 31st consecutive shot, this raw DPS is very easily realized in real combat situations.
To compare the TAR to the ScR, I must use the ADV tier, as the AR has no STD level TAR.
The GLU-Tac has 500 Damage per Second, firing 6-7 shots per second, or one-third of it's clip. Compared to the AR of this level, the GEK-Ass has only 446 Damage per Second. If the TAR still has such a greater DPS, why is it not being used more? The same reason why most people use the AR over the ScR, in that it is far easier to realize the potential DPS of the AR, and not too many can truly fire the TAR at 400 RPM (6-7 trigger-pulls per second) without the aid of scripts or modded controllers. Even if they could, it would interfere with their accuracy as it would jerk the input device, mouse or DS3.
The ScR on the other hand, specifically the CRW-Scr, has 889 potential DPS. This sounds like alot, and that is because it is. However, this is offset by the number of shots this is per second, specifically 12. Try to click as much as you can HERE. Now divide by 10. Was you result 12 or over? Were you clicking as if you were playing an FPS, or were you hunched over to maximize click speed? Do it again normally, I won't tell anyone. Now imagine you're doing that while tracking a target. Also, after 15 shots you can't fire for five seconds, so you have to regulate your heat while shooting. It takes six seconds to drain the heat from the gun over time. As such, you can get one or two seconds of prime DPS before forced to stop firing or else take massive damage and be defenseless for five seconds.
In short,
GLU-Tac does 500 Damage per Second at 6-7 shots a second. The TAR can keep this u for three seconds, then have a three second downtime to reload, the fire again for three seconds in a continuous pattern. this leads to 250 Damage Per Second average over a minute of continuous firing and reloading.
CRW-Scr does 889 Damage per Second at 12 shots a second. The ScR can only keep this up for a second before overheating for five, or stopping and letting heat drain for six. Assuming he seizes up, a 148 Damage per Second average over a solid minute of firing. Feedback damage over this time is 500 HP. Also, he must reload, which is 2.5 seconds every three seizes (or 18 seconds). This leads to the ScR having a 7.5 second downtime every third seize. Three reloads in one minute. This leads to three seconds of firing out of twenty seconds of using the gun. Therefore, the DPM of the CRW ScR is only 133.
IN SHORTER
GLU-Tac, all things considered, does 250 damage per second over a minute.
CRW-ScR, all things considered, does 133 damage per second over a minute.
NOTE: These maths were done before adding skills, have no damage modifier equipped, and have not taken into account the Charge feature due to its situational use. I could do this later if demand is high, but I think I've proven my point with this.
ECM Equipment
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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1144
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 16:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Keri Starlight wrote:With a 78m range it's going to be insane. I won't be able to stay competitive with my weapon anymore, I'm going to say goodbye to my love (Tac AR, which will become completely obsolete) and join the Darkside (Rail or Scrambler).
I will probably spec in both of them, so whatever gets nerfed, I will always have a powerful weapon to play with. This is why I'm saving 1+ million SP. This is kindof the POINT of the Scrambler Rifle. The Tactical Assault Rifle is the Gallente ripoff of the Scrambler Rifle, like the Assault Scrambler Rifle is the Amarrian ripoff of the Blaster Rifle. The Scrambler Rifle is SUPPOSED to seem better than the TAR, just like the AR is better than the AScR. You aren't supposed to be able to spec into just one gun (AR) and get all the roles covered (AR and TAR). Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's the way we do it in New Eden. In terms and philosophy, you would be absolute correct. However, this is a video game. That being said all weapons are supposed to be balanced and have it's strength and weaknesses. One weapon should not to be nearly the exact same thing but inherently better in all aspects just because of lore and terminology. And don't give me that "Welcome To New Eden" BS. That is no excuse for something to be 100% better than another weapon or for something to be insanely OP. (Not saying SCRs are OP)
You are right, this is a game. That is WHY the TAR should be worse in all respects than the ScR. When you Spec into Blaster Rifles, you spec into Assault Rifles, NOT Tactical Rifles. When you Spec into Scrambler Rifles, you spec into Tactical Rifles, NOT Assault Rifles. Ergo, the TAR should be worse than the ScR. It is only there because for the longest time we didn't HAVE the designated Tactical Rifle tree. It is only there for people who don't want to spec into the actual Tactical Rifles, and it could not be removed without mass uproar and headsplosions. Should the TAR also have over 500 range because it is basically a weaker Sniper Rifle? Your logic is a slippery slope, and one which is hilarious to view.
ECM Equipment
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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1144
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 16:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:
So did the TAC, it was nerfed.
The TAR was nerfed because people used modded controllers to fire it at ridiculous speeds with no downside. Try doing that with the ScR and it will burn your hands and seize.
ECM Equipment
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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1144
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 16:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Scrutiny of the ScR suffers from the anthropic principle.
When used poorly, the ScR is barely noticeable. It can't be spammed for few lucky hits, and if you miss with the charged shot you've just lowered your dps for the next 20 seconds by about 40%.
But when it's used right, you will drop almost instantly to its opening volley, if not instantly to a well timed charge shot. It will not feel nice. You will feel helpless, maybe even wronged.
Those are the encounters you will remember, that is the impression of the ScR you will carry to the forums, and you will overlook all those times when it barely scratched you. no I can remember plenty of times when someone over heated and nearly or did kill themselves. I just don't like it when it appears that someone is firing a semi auto weapon faster then it's auto counterpart. The auto counterpart doesn't overheat in 3 seconds. Yes? Does that mean a semi auto weapon should fire faster then?
They have the same fire rate, actually. If you can find someone who can fire twelve times a second manually while still tracking targets and not suffering from seizing or heat dispersion... well, no-one like that exists.
ECM Equipment
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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1144
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 16:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Keri Starlight wrote:With a 78m range it's going to be insane. I won't be able to stay competitive with my weapon anymore, I'm going to say goodbye to my love (Tac AR, which will become completely obsolete) and join the Darkside (Rail or Scrambler).
I will probably spec in both of them, so whatever gets nerfed, I will always have a powerful weapon to play with. This is why I'm saving 1+ million SP. This is kindof the POINT of the Scrambler Rifle. The Tactical Assault Rifle is the Gallente ripoff of the Scrambler Rifle, like the Assalt Scrambler Rifle is the Amarrian ripoff of the Blaster Rifle. The Scrambler Rifle is SUPPOSED to seem better than the TAR, just like the AR is better than the AScR. You aren't supposed to be able to spec into just one gun (AR) and get all the roles covered (AR and TAR). Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's the way we do it in New Eden. But that's the problem. The AR and the ASCR are equals. Yes the ASCR has more side to side sway, but it has NO vertical recoil at all. It also has a larger clip, tighter hip fire and more range. The saving grace of the AR is that it has no recoil for the first 15 rounds in it's mag.
I have yet to use the AScR due to my own personal grudges against automatic weaponry, but the AR seems to have its own bonuses. You can remove all AR recoil by letting go of the trigger for a hair every 15 shots, causing the recoil values to reset. It also has a laser-straight firing cone which allows all its bullets to hit unrealistically often. I will offer an AScR critique later on, may as well use what I already have SP in.
ECM Equipment
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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1145
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 19:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Keri Starlight wrote:With a 78m range it's going to be insane. I won't be able to stay competitive with my weapon anymore, I'm going to say goodbye to my love (Tac AR, which will become completely obsolete) and join the Darkside (Rail or Scrambler).
I will probably spec in both of them, so whatever gets nerfed, I will always have a powerful weapon to play with. This is why I'm saving 1+ million SP. This is kindof the POINT of the Scrambler Rifle. The Tactical Assault Rifle is the Gallente ripoff of the Scrambler Rifle, like the Assalt Scrambler Rifle is the Amarrian ripoff of the Blaster Rifle. The Scrambler Rifle is SUPPOSED to seem better than the TAR, just like the AR is better than the AScR. You aren't supposed to be able to spec into just one gun (AR) and get all the roles covered (AR and TAR). Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's the way we do it in New Eden. But that's the problem. The AR and the ASCR are equals. Yes the ASCR has more side to side sway, but it has NO vertical recoil at all. It also has a larger clip, tighter hip fire and more range. The saving grace of the AR is that it has no recoil for the first 15 rounds in it's mag. I have yet to use the AScR due to my own personal grudges against automatic weaponry, but the AR seems to have its own bonuses. You can remove all AR recoil by letting go of the trigger for a hair every 15 shots, causing the recoil values to reset. It also has a laser-straight firing cone which allows all its bullets to hit unrealistically often. I will offer an AScR critique later on, may as well use what I already have SP in.
Used the AScR for a few rounds, it's better against Caldari but still feels like it's weaker than the AR against anything else, notably heavies and LAVs. I'll do maths for it later.
ECM Equipment
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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1148
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 22:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
Thorgen Barr wrote:
Did you seriously just say the AScR is weaker than the AR against LAVS ? Are you for real ?? What the hell are you doing shooting at LAVS with a flipping AR/AScR ?
So that's why there are some idiots shooting at my lav and doing nothing to it .. I thought it was players just out of the academy
On a serious note ScR are laser weaponry they do 120% damage v shields and 80% damage v armour whereas AR's do 110% damage to shields and 90% damage to armour therefore it will obviously be better against the shield tanking Caldari than the often dual tanking (although it's usually more armour tanking than shield tanking) heavies and the AR will be better v anything that is slightly more armour based ...
I understand the basics of each weapon's shield/armor bias. As for LAVs, if you fire at their weak point you can do quite a decent chunk of damage with small arms fire, especially the ubiquitous Militia and 'free' BPO LAVs. If it is one guy firing, it may be enough to scare off the LAV, two and they might kill the pilot before he realizes he is the target. A full squad can concentrate fire and make minced metal of an LAV. An LLAV on the other hand is a yellow god and should not be fired upon, lest you incur its wrath.
Also, tone down the venom. If you think that people are idiots for shooting at LAVs then by all means think that. It will offer me immense schadenfreude when I shoot you out of your car/fill your hood full of bolts.
ECM Equipment
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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1148
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 22:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:
So did the TAC, it was nerfed.
The TAR was nerfed because people used modded controllers to fire it at ridiculous speeds with no downside. Try doing that with the ScR and it will burn your hands and seize. I believe people are doing the same withe the semi ScR. With no skills in it I can fire off max of 16 shots before it overheats. I tested this several times today. I'm gonna ask my buddy that has max operation skills in it to see how many he can do later today. I'm guessing it will be around 20-25 before overheat. I'd imagine you can turn a ScR into a burst ScR with a modded controller and fire 9-10 rounds with each button press. You really don't want to mod your controller because the heat generation is per shot. If you mod your controller, every button press will be accompanied by 50 damage to you and a hissing sound as your weapon is disabled. Also, the weapon operation skill has no effect on the number of shots you can fire. It just makes it cool down quicker - the actual heat generation is unaffected. Continuous fire will still yield the same number of shots - if you stagger your shots you will notice a slight improvement though. I believe it's per second, and I've timed it at five seconds. I can not overheat it faster then that. Also, sorry I thought the operations skill reduced the heat build up per sec. Maybe I'm getting it mixed up with the laser rifle or the Amarr assault bonus. either way, he has max Amarr Assault and I'll ask him to test it out. If that's the case it should increase the firing time to 7 seconds max(it's a 300 heat build up threshold and the STD ScR has a 60 heat build up per sec so 25 percent off of that should drop it down to 45 ish)
I had heard that they fixed it around the time of 1.5 and made it per shot instead of per second, but I could be wrong. 'Little' things like that don't make it into the patch notes... either way, they did say that they would fix it, as the overheat mechanic at the time only worked with constant-fire weaponry. I'd run those tests again, see if you get the same results.
ECM Equipment
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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1150
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 01:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
Johnny Guilt wrote:Marston VC wrote:Arcanine Rising wrote:When people can't entertain the possibility that their weapon isn't balanced...you know your playing crutch514.
Look around for comments expressing openness of opinion...you'll be left wanting. Shame really. When people cry nerf every time they get killed by a weapon and CCP listens, that's when it becomes crutch514 The SR has obvious disadvantages as other people have said, and while its great in some scenarios, its terrible in others. Its good but I don't really think it needs a nerf, and I hardly use the damn thing. Most times I just use the proto ASR or an SMG. disadvantages that can be ignored but yeah maybe it doesn't need a nerf just fixed
Explain how they can be ignored, I'm quite curious as to understand your line of thought on the matter.
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