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Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 601	Posted - 2013.11.09 12:16:00 - [1] - Quote Please forumites, please stop bitching about the heavy suit being under powered. The heavy suit is not underpowered, just because the AR is OP and Assault / Logi suits need to be fixed does not mean the heavy suit itself is under powered. The HMG being crap does not making the heavy suit underpowered unlike what I see people posting about. The HMG is not the heavy suit. Please remember this. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Vegetation Monster The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 48	Posted - 2013.11.09 12:19:00 - [2] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Please forumites, please stop bitching about the heavy suit being under powered. The heavy suit is not underpowered, just because the AR is OP and Assault / Logi suits need to be fixed does not mean the heavy suit itself is under powered. The HMG being crap does not making the heavy suit underpowered unlike what I see people posting about. The HMG is not the heavy suit. Please remember this. heavy suit can barley kill a milita scout a foot in front of him, our effective range is 3m, at 20m its like throwing cotton balls enemys... B Double O T Y
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 601	Posted - 2013.11.09 12:21:00 - [3] - Quote Vegetation Monster wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Please forumites, please stop bitching about the heavy suit being under powered. The heavy suit is not underpowered, just because the AR is OP and Assault / Logi suits need to be fixed does not mean the heavy suit itself is under powered. The HMG being crap does not making the heavy suit underpowered unlike what I see people posting about. The HMG is not the heavy suit. Please remember this. heavy suit can barley kill a milita scout a foot in front of him, our effective range is 3m, at 20m its like throwing cotton balls enemys... People like you are the problem unless you're being sarcastic. Heavies can use any weapon, its their choice to use the HMG over something else. But complaining the suit itself is underpowered because a gun is doesnt make it underpowered. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Coleman Gray GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 914	Posted - 2013.11.09 12:23:00 - [4] - Quote The suit is fine, it's the weapons. I seen more and more heavies tho opting for AR's ect over heavy weapons tho lately, just shows the problem does exist in the weapons, not the suit. If Preparation is half of the battle and knowing is the other half, Then there is no need to fight.
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 601	Posted - 2013.11.09 12:24:00 - [5] - Quote Coleman Gray wrote: The suit is fine, it's the weapons. I seen more and more heavies tho opting for AR's ect over heavy weapons tho lately, just shows the problem does exist in the weapons, not the suit. Thats my point, people still seem to think its the suit itself though. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1637	Posted - 2013.11.09 13:14:00 - [6] - Quote The HMG is underpowered for its effective range, add in AA for every other weapon in the game and is obsolete when bunny hopping players can just keep on you thanks to AA Add in any weapon and nades melting your armor too Prefer if the heavy suit has like a 3% per level to small arms resistance or even explosive damage They gets chewed through too quickly even if you do have 1600hp but then again run with a logi with new buffed tools and you do okay
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 227	Posted - 2013.11.09 19:11:00 - [7] - Quote Food for thought... I've seen an omni-tanked heavy with a breach AR dominate in CQC oriented maps. The Logibro kept him running and he could service targets faster and with greater precision with the breach AR. it was pretty impressive actually.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2055	Posted - 2013.11.09 19:16:00 - [8] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Please forumites, please stop bitching about the heavy suit being under powered. The heavy suit is not underpowered, just because the AR is OP and Assault / Logi suits need to be fixed does not mean the heavy suit itself is under powered. The HMG being crap does not making the heavy suit underpowered unlike what I see people posting about. The HMG is not the heavy suit. Please remember this. The heavy suit is great, the heavy class is the problem. The suits have an almost useless H slot. Why run a HMG when you can slap on even a breach AR and perform unquestionably better. No.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4249	Posted - 2013.11.09 19:20:00 - [9] - Quote I just met a Heavy in the Gallente research lab map. He wrecked everything in his way. Killed 3 blueberries who were firing at him, and he would have almost killed me, as I've slain him with my OMGWTFBBQ Scambler rifle, with 50HP left. Heavies are totally underpowered *Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant* *Beta Vet* *Level 4 Forum Warrior*
Vitharr Foebane Blood Money Mercenaries 218	Posted - 2013.11.09 19:24:00 - [10] - Quote The sooner we get heavy lasers the better. I've no problems with the suit, and due to the recent HP buff took a plate off for a cardiac regulator as an experiment. The problem is that we have no midrange weapons. As soon as there are full racial heavy suits and weapons I expect heavy complaints to dwindle and complaints against the heavy to rise How to make a Heavy Laser: 1.Take laser 2.Make it REALLY BIG 3.Give it to the heavy sobbing quietly in the corner.

Tectonic Fusion 513	Posted - 2013.11.09 19:46:00 - [11] - Quote You think my Amarr Logi is OP? Hahahahahaha try a female Caldari Assault. They have WAY smaller hitboxes and can actually dodge some bullets, but us Amarr are too fat and slow to do that... Solo Player Squad status: Locked
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1234	Posted - 2013.11.09 19:49:00 - [12] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Please forumites, please stop bitching about the heavy suit being under powered. The heavy suit is not underpowered, just because the AR is OP and Assault / Logi suits need to be fixed does not mean the heavy suit itself is under powered. The HMG being crap does not making the heavy suit underpowered unlike what I see people posting about. The HMG is not the heavy suit. Please remember this. I only go positive with my sentinel if I go at least advanced. But usually only run proto because the HMG is ** otherwise. At least in medium frames you can compete using standard gear, if your SP is in the right places. In the meantime I'll run my proto sentinel with KinCats and cardiac regulators instead of plates, because despite what everyone thinks, HP is not everything in the game that matters. With two enhanced KinCats I can run faster then my logis and have more shields and armor than them still On a related note; The heavy suit is ** because of our only weapon that can be used in a manor similar to the majority of light weapons. I've said it before and I'll say it again, you should use a heavy suit for heavy weapons not the other way around. What is a signature?
Fiddler Galaine Northwind Alliance Dark Taboo 47	Posted - 2013.11.09 19:53:00 - [13] - Quote Heavies aren't underpowered at all. Personally, I can't wait for the Gallente Heavy to get here. As far as heavy weapons go, I wouldn't mind a Laser HMG or a Plasma Blaster (think of a hybrid between a forge gun and an AR - big green balls of death).
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 30	Posted - 2013.11.09 20:01:00 - [14] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: People like you are the problem unless you're being sarcastic. Heavies can use any weapon, its their choice to use the HMG over something else. But complaining the suit itself is underpowered because a gun is doesnt make it underpowered. As someone who was a full-time heavy in Chrome, and is currently a part time heavy (long story, don't ask), the only reason I feel a need to pull out my heavy suit these days, comes down to the following: 1. I have a stock of HMGs and leftover suits to burn, because I dislike the visual clutter of my inventory. 2. I need a FG to kill a tank, or to slather myself in the delicious warpoints of destroyed turrets and the tears of dorks who dislike FG sniping. That's it. The problem with the argument "heavies can use all weapons, stop crying", is that the heavy suit is defined by its ability to carry heavy weapons. When a heavy weapon is being outperformed by a light weapon (like how the AR whips the HMG, since, well, pretty much late Chrome really), then there is a problem. In many respects, heavy suits are fine. I do think that the slot layout difference between the heavy frame and sentinel is... awkward, and the sentinel skill bonuses need a massive overhaul (flat 2% heavy weap reload bonus, and a bonus for a heavy weapon we do not have! really CCP?!), but the basic features of the heavy suit (excluding the Commando, which has its own issues, though some of them have been alleviated by Uprising 1.6) are generally solid. Again, however, the flaw is that the heavy as a class is defined by that heavy weapon slot. Yes, it cascades down, and you can put any infantry weapon you please into that slot, but the problem is that currently, the reasons to do so should be "Well, I've got a CQC infantry blender, and a long-range blapgun, but I'd really like some mid-range anti-infantry and maybe some long-range high-accuracy anti-infantry capability", at which point you get LR heavies and sniper heavies. Incidentally, both options were a pretty big thing in Chrome- LR heavies not some much anymore, and sniper heavies are often being replaced by sniper logis, but that has more to do with slot layouts (or rather, the slight dearth of high slots on heavies to use for damage mods). TL;DR (because I know you didn't since you are obviously a heavy hater who knows nothing about heavies), the problem isn't the suit, it's that the defining feature of the heavy class, that being heavy weapons, are being outmoded by light-class weapons that are better put to use on medium frame suits. ED. Note: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: I only go positive with my sentinel if I go at least advanced. But usually only run proto because the HMG is ** otherwise. At least in medium frames you can compete using standard gear, if your SP is in the right places. In the meantime I'll run my proto sentinel with KinCats and cardiac regulators instead of plates, because despite what everyone thinks, HP is not everything in the game that matters. With two enhanced KinCats I can run faster then my logis and have more shields and armor than them still On a related note; The heavy suit is ** because of our only weapon that can be used in a manor similar to the majority of light weapons. I've said it before and I'll say it again, you should use a heavy suit for heavy weapons not the other way around. Have a like, heavybro. Also, if I could double-like your post, I would, because the school of Sports Turtle is obviously doing well for itself. Alas, I have not the skill(points) to be the Sports Turtle- you have my envy, good sir.
Rusty Shallows 478	Posted - 2013.11.09 20:35:00 - [15] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Please forumites, please stop bitching about the heavy suit being under powered. The heavy suit is not underpowered, just because the AR is OP and Assault / Logi suits need to be fixed does not mean the heavy suit itself is under powered. The HMG being crap does not making the heavy suit underpowered unlike what I see people posting about. The HMG is not the heavy suit. Please remember this. I championed the good heavy weapons and let the heavy suit be a somewhat crappy buffer tank cause. We lost. If you have a way to convince the Dev's let us know. CCP is just going to leave the HMG crappy and slowly nerf the few functional FGs down to that level. By default that leaves the suit. Name calling is a bad way to make a persuasive argument. "She may not be Miss Right but she'll do right now," Thank you SR-71
Fargen Icehole SyNergy Gaming EoN. 141	Posted - 2013.11.09 21:07:00 - [16] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Please forumites, please stop bitching about the heavy suit being under powered. The heavy suit is not underpowered, just because the AR is OP and Assault / Logi suits need to be fixed does not mean the heavy suit itself is under powered. The HMG being crap does not making the heavy suit underpowered unlike what I see people posting about. The HMG is not the heavy suit. Please remember this. Suit isn't too bad. (although it could use 1 more slot at the proto level) The regular HMG isn't bad either. It has good stopping power up close and is balanced by being near-useless beyond 20m. The REAL problem, is that the Assault HMG isn't good enough to be a viable option for mid-range fights. It needs to have it's RBS cone shrunk so that it could lay down more PRECISE fire. On paper, the Assault HMG doesn't lose too much of it's power until 45ish meters. However, while it's better at range, it still suffers because it's RBS cone allows too many rounds to miss. Making the Assault HMG more precise would still keep it balanced because it's lower dmg still makes it inferior to regular HMGs at close range.
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 606	Posted - 2013.11.09 21:10:00 - [17] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: TL;DR (because I know you didn't since you are obviously a heavy hater who knows nothing about heavies), the problem isn't the suit, it's that the defining feature of the heavy class, that being heavy weapons, are being outmoded by light-class weapons that are better put to use on medium frame suits. You know nothing of me, as someone who did play Heavy during Chromo as well ( Moselder was heavy, Medrean - Logi and this character a scout / pilot) I know the heavy roll and Im saving my SP currently to spec into minmatar heavies once they are released. And the limit on choices of heavy weapons maybe be a problem but my entire thread is about the suit itself not being underpowered. You want to feel a REAL underpowered suit? Spec into scouts which can run you 180k isk with less then 300 HP. Then you can complain. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 4448	Posted - 2013.11.09 21:11:00 - [18] - Quote The suit doesn't mean a thing when the weapon doesn't offer the opportunity to kill. In other words having 400hp or 600hp means nothing. You just live a little longer to shoot spitballs at red dots. The bonus for the Sentinel suit sucks though. Just what i wanted though, a bonus for a weapon not in the game yet (scrambler HMG? Laser HMG?) ( ._.) <('.'<) "There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 606	Posted - 2013.11.09 21:13:00 - [19] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: The suit doesn't mean a thing when the weapon doesn't offer the opportunity to kill. In other words having 400hp or 600hp means nothing. You just live a little longer to shoot spitballs at red dots. The bonus for the Sentinel suit sucks though. Just what i wanted though, a bonus for a weapon not in the game yet (scrambler HMG? Laser HMG?) Then people should lobby for the weapons alone instead of bitching about the suit itself. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 4448	Posted - 2013.11.09 21:23:00 - [20] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: The suit doesn't mean a thing when the weapon doesn't offer the opportunity to kill. In other words having 400hp or 600hp means nothing. You just live a little longer to shoot spitballs at red dots. The bonus for the Sentinel suit sucks though. Just what i wanted though, a bonus for a weapon not in the game yet (scrambler HMG? Laser HMG?) Then people should lobby for the weapons alone instead of bitching about the suit itself. Who bitches about the suit???? People bitching about THE LACK OF SUITS ( ._.) <('.'<) "There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"

Fargen Icehole SyNergy Gaming EoN. 141	Posted - 2013.11.09 21:28:00 - [21] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: The suit doesn't mean a thing when the weapon doesn't offer the opportunity to kill. In other words having 400hp or 600hp means nothing. You just live a little longer to shoot spitballs at red dots. The bonus for the Sentinel suit sucks though. Just what i wanted though, a bonus for a weapon not in the game yet (scrambler HMG? Laser HMG?) Then people should lobby for the weapons alone instead of bitching about the suit itself. Who bitches about the suit???? People bitching about THE LACK OF SUITS BINGO I have a brilliant idea CCP... let's give the Heavy class some other racial variants! You know, like the medium and light suits! (although light suit needs love too)
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 32	Posted - 2013.11.09 21:50:00 - [22] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: You know nothing of me, as someone who did play Heavy during Chromo as well ( Moselder was heavy, Medrean - Logi and this character a scout / pilot) I know the heavy roll and Im saving my SP currently to spec into minmatar heavies once they are released. And the limit on choices of heavy weapons maybe be a problem but my entire thread is about the suit itself not being underpowered. You want to feel a REAL underpowered suit? Spec into scouts which can run you 180k isk with less then 300 HP. Then you can complain. Your post comes across as an entirely self-righteous "heavy dudes are just bad at their class and should stop whining about being UP" viewpoint, which is chronically held by everyone who does not at least use the heavy suit in a semi-dedicated manner.* As such, the following quote (Oh God I'm agreeing with someone in EoN., the horror I feel is inexpressible): Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: The suit doesn't mean a thing when the weapon doesn't offer the opportunity to kill. In other words having 400hp or 600hp means nothing. You just live a little longer to shoot spitballs at red dots. The bonus for the Sentinel suit sucks though. Just what i wanted though, a bonus for a weapon not in the game yet (scrambler HMG? Laser HMG?) Very nicely illustrates the point, as does this one: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: On a related note; The heavy suit is **** because of our only weapon that can be used in a manor similar to the majority of light weapons. I've said it before and I'll say it again, you should use a heavy suit for heavy weapons not the other way around. The whole idea of the heavy frame/sentinel suits is that you choose to skill into them solely to make use of heavy weapons. If we wanted to primarily make use of light-class weapons on a heavy suit, then in an ideal world we'd pick the Commando. But we wanted to be heavy because we wanted to make use of the enormously powerful heavy weapons. Except that the anti-infantry heavy weapon we have is incapable of supplying us with all of the appropriate capability we require. The HMG being outranged by the AR isn't really the problem either- that's something which must be accepted in order to provide balance. The real issue is that the HMG is incapable of standing toe-to-toe with a medium frame AR user, and winning. Part of this is because of the stupid hitreg with the HMG, in that the incredibly, ridiculously tiny center dot of the reticle MUST be on target in order for ANY hits to be registered. This, incidentally, is how a player is able to strafe their way through streams of HMG fire and take little to no damage. Even a shotgun would get partial hits on, and any AR user would gun their opponent down with impunity. So yes, more heavy weapons would certainly go a long ways to fixing this problem. More heavy suit options would as well, However, there are still some innate problems with the HMG, and there is a MASSIVE issue with anyone claiming that heavies should use ARs instead of HMGs if HMGs are bad, because the HMG is a heavy weapon, and thusly is 90% of the point of using a heavy suit. If somebody told you "Oh, ARs suck, so just use an SMG instead because those are awesome", would you thank them for their advice, or tell them that they're an idiot for not recognizing the fundamental problem of the comparison- that being that a smaller class of weapon is outperforming the larger version in the same role. I know which I would do.
Jacques Cayton II Providence Guard Templis Dragonaors 91	Posted - 2013.11.09 21:55:00 - [23] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Vegetation Monster wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Please forumites, please stop bitching about the heavy suit being under powered. The heavy suit is not underpowered, just because the AR is OP and Assault / Logi suits need to be fixed does not mean the heavy suit itself is under powered. The HMG being crap does not making the heavy suit underpowered unlike what I see people posting about. The HMG is not the heavy suit. Please remember this. heavy suit can barley kill a milita scout a foot in front of him, our effective range is 3m, at 20m its like throwing cotton balls enemys... People like you are the problem unless you're being sarcastic. Heavies can use any weapon, its their choice to use the HMG over something else. But complaining the suit itself is underpowered because a gun is doesnt make it underpowered. Oh that's why heavies were put in the game to carry light weapons not heavy weapons thanks you solved the heavies problem..... just to let you know I'm being sarcastic
Himiko Kuronaga The Generals EoN. 2228	Posted - 2013.11.09 21:56:00 - [24] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Please forumites, please stop bitching about the heavy suit being under powered. The heavy suit is not underpowered, just because the AR is OP and Assault / Logi suits need to be fixed does not mean the heavy suit itself is under powered. The HMG being crap does not making the heavy suit underpowered unlike what I see people posting about. The HMG is not the heavy suit. Please remember this. I championed the good heavy weapons and let the heavy suit be a somewhat crappy buffer tank cause. We lost. If you have a way to convince the Dev's let us know. CCP is just going to leave the HMG crappy and slowly nerf the few functional FGs down to that level. By default that leaves the suit. Name calling is a bad way to make a persuasive argument. But it's a great way to demoralize your opponent and let them know what nasty poopoo head they are.
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 311	Posted - 2013.11.09 22:13:00 - [25] - Quote Nobody is really complaining about the heavy suit, from what I can tell. I know I, and most other heavy users and heavy sympathizers, are complaining about the heavy CLASS... Which is impotent... Because we have only one suit. And only two weapons... And only one of those weapons is any good... And the racial and class bonus to the more specialized heavy CLASS is useless. The suit is not the problem. The class is. Don't mistake something along the lines of: "Heavies are terrible" as meaning "Heavy suits are terrible." It means that "Heavies [the class] are terrible."
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 608	Posted - 2013.11.10 23:36:00 - [26] - Quote Heavies have access to every weapon, not just heavy weapons last I checked. Because you (pointing to many in this thread) dont want to use different weapons for diffent situations is your problem. The Assault Rifle is over powered, and the HMG is only under powered because the AR. Not yet have I heard someone say AR vs Nova knives are unfair, AR is too strong. Everyone instead accepts that if you are "this" distance away with Nova Knives you should die, why not look at it the same way with the HMG. Im getting sick of heavies bitching about this crap. Now im good at this game, theres no doubt to that, if you've seen me on a regular basis you know this. I can play my prototype scout using my prototype weapons and I have to struggle to kick as much ass as I do. Now I can jump on my mlt heavy with std HMG and breeze through enemies no problem, even easier if I use my adv FG. To be honest everything is 10 times easier on the mlt heavy then it is on my scout using every weapon I have sans the knives. So sorry if I dont feel sympathy that I can survive longer then 0.5 seconds vs weapon fire like im use to and only spend about 10k isk instead of 150k isk. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
lok rark StealthSquad 10	Posted - 2013.11.11 00:46:00 - [27] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Heavies have access to every weapon, not just heavy weapons last I checked. Im getting sick of heavies bitching about this crap. Im really glad thats working for you Mossellia. But it sounds like your not really a dedicated heavy. So you cant actually speak from SPerience . I SP'd into heavy. Sentinel Adv suits3, proto HMG5, enhanced armor, enhanced shields, enhanced damage mod. I cant play heavy anymore. I get chewed up by the geek over and over even in one on one now! I go to another server and get chewed up again. I throw my controller at the ground (gta5) and come back tomorrow and get chewed up all over. The answer is simple, STOP PLAYING HEAVY untill they fix it... I switched to Minmatar ass1, MassDriver3. Works for me. I agree its not that the heavy UP, its that the AR is OverPowered to the extreme. It use to take 3 AR's to drop me. Also i cant believe no other heavies noticed but they have increased the lag time from when you fire a HMG until when the bullets leave your gun. If you walk into an enemy, your dead before the bullets can leave the barrel.
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 34	Posted - 2013.11.11 05:43:00 - [28] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Heavies have access to every weapon, not just heavy weapons last I checked. Because you (pointing to many in this thread) dont want to use different weapons for diffent situations is your problem. The Assault Rifle is over powered, and the HMG is only under powered because the AR. Not yet have I heard someone say AR vs Nova knives are unfair, AR is too strong. Everyone instead accepts that if you are "this" distance away with Nova Knives you should die, why not look at it the same way with the HMG. Im getting sick of heavies bitching about this crap. Now im good at this game, theres no doubt to that, if you've seen me on a regular basis you know this. I can play my prototype scout using my prototype weapons and I have to struggle to kick as much ass as I do. Now I can jump on my mlt heavy with std HMG and breeze through enemies no problem, even easier if I use my adv FG. To be honest everything is 10 times easier on the mlt heavy then it is on my scout using every weapon I have sans the knives. So sorry if I dont feel sympathy that I can survive longer then 0.5 seconds vs weapon fire like im use to and only spend about 10k isk instead of 150k isk. /facepalm. Look, I'm going to not be characteristically long-winded about this, and I will obey the KISS principal, because you obviously have no reading comprehension whatsoever. I'll even use bullet points to make it easy to understand. 1. The ENTIRE point of the Heavy dropsuit class is to carry and employ heavy-class weapons. 2. Yes, you can put any other kind of weapon into a heavy weapon slot. No, this is generally not a good idea. 3. If the entire point of the heavy class is to carry heavy weapons, THEN WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO USE AN AR?! The HMG should be the far more attractive choice for a short-medium range full-auto bullet hose, if you're a heavy. For the record, the reason NKs are generally considered acceptable (and even then, dedicated knifers will immediately call you out and call you an idiot for thinking this) is because they are mostly-functional. You get close enough, then there is very little that can actually survive being stabbed in the back. Or in the face, if it's a really good NK'er. The flaw in your reasoning is ultimately that it is understood that NKs require a particular type of suit to take advantage of- usually scouts, for their speed and stealth- but NKs can be put onto any suit in the game. The HMG can only be carried by heavy suits. See above bullet points as to why your argument is flawed and makes you look like you are unable to read.
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 4456	Posted - 2013.11.11 05:58:00 - [29] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Heavies have access to every weapon, not just heavy weapons last I checked. Because you (pointing to many in this thread) dont want to use different weapons for diffent situations is your problem. The Assault Rifle is over powered, and the HMG is only under powered because the AR. Not yet have I heard someone say AR vs Nova knives are unfair, AR is too strong. Everyone instead accepts that if you are "this" distance away with Nova Knives you should die, why not look at it the same way with the HMG. Im getting sick of heavies bitching about this crap. Now im good at this game, theres no doubt to that, if you've seen me on a regular basis you know this. I can play my prototype scout using my prototype weapons and I have to struggle to kick as much ass as I do. Now I can jump on my mlt heavy with std HMG and breeze through enemies no problem, even easier if I use my adv FG. To be honest everything is 10 times easier on the mlt heavy then it is on my scout using every weapon I have sans the knives. So sorry if I dont feel sympathy that I can survive longer then 0.5 seconds vs weapon fire like im use to and only spend about 10k isk instead of 150k isk. /facepalm. Look, I'm going to not be characteristically long-winded about this, and I will obey the KISS principal, because you obviously have no reading comprehension whatsoever. I'll even use bullet points to make it easy to understand. 1. The ENTIRE point of the Heavy dropsuit class is to carry and employ heavy-class weapons. 2. Yes, you can put any other kind of weapon into a heavy weapon slot. No, this is generally not a good idea. 3. If the entire point of the heavy class is to carry heavy weapons, THEN WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO USE AN AR?! The HMG should be the far more attractive choice for a short-medium range full-auto bullet hose, if you're a heavy. For the record, the reason NKs are generally considered acceptable (and even then, dedicated knifers will immediately call you out and call you an idiot for thinking this) is because they are mostly-functional. You get close enough, then there is very little that can actually survive being stabbed in the back. Or in the face, if it's a really good NK'er. The flaw in your reasoning is ultimately that it is understood that NKs require a particular type of suit to take advantage of- usually scouts, for their speed and stealth- but NKs can be put onto any suit in the game. The HMG can only be carried by heavy suits. See above bullet points as to why your argument is flawed and makes you look like you are unable to read. I'm afraid this might be too much logic for some to understand...even with a bullet point presentation. ( ._.) <('.'<) "There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 609	Posted - 2013.11.11 06:09:00 - [30] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Heavies have access to every weapon, not just heavy weapons last I checked. Because you (pointing to many in this thread) dont want to use different weapons for diffent situations is your problem. The Assault Rifle is over powered, and the HMG is only under powered because the AR. Not yet have I heard someone say AR vs Nova knives are unfair, AR is too strong. Everyone instead accepts that if you are "this" distance away with Nova Knives you should die, why not look at it the same way with the HMG. Im getting sick of heavies bitching about this crap. Now im good at this game, theres no doubt to that, if you've seen me on a regular basis you know this. I can play my prototype scout using my prototype weapons and I have to struggle to kick as much ass as I do. Now I can jump on my mlt heavy with std HMG and breeze through enemies no problem, even easier if I use my adv FG. To be honest everything is 10 times easier on the mlt heavy then it is on my scout using every weapon I have sans the knives. So sorry if I dont feel sympathy that I can survive longer then 0.5 seconds vs weapon fire like im use to and only spend about 10k isk instead of 150k isk. /facepalm. Look, I'm going to not be characteristically long-winded about this, and I will obey the KISS principal, because you obviously have no reading comprehension whatsoever. I'll even use bullet points to make it easy to understand. 1. The ENTIRE point of the Heavy dropsuit class is to carry and employ heavy-class weapons. 2. Yes, you can put any other kind of weapon into a heavy weapon slot. No, this is generally not a good idea. 3. If the entire point of the heavy class is to carry heavy weapons, THEN WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO USE AN AR?! The HMG should be the far more attractive choice for a short-medium range full-auto bullet hose, if you're a heavy. For the record, the reason NKs are generally considered acceptable (and even then, dedicated knifers will immediately call you out and call you an idiot for thinking this) is because they are mostly-functional. You get close enough, then there is very little that can actually survive being stabbed in the back. Or in the face, if it's a really good NK'er. The flaw in your reasoning is ultimately that it is understood that NKs require a particular type of suit to take advantage of- usually scouts, for their speed and stealth- but NKs can be put onto any suit in the game. The HMG can only be carried by heavy suits. See above bullet points as to why your argument is flawed and makes you look like you are unable to read. Then lobby for the nerf of the AR not the buff of the HMG. Scouts being as thin as THEY are dont need heavies doing more damage. Heavies being as heavy as they are dont need more HP (3 - 6 shotgun shots to bring one dont if they register at all) and Just so you know, Nova Knives are better used on assault and logi suits then Scouts. If you buff the heavy any more you're causing the scout to become even more useless and its nearly dead anyways, at the very least heavies have forgeguns to keep them as a playable class alive. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)

God Hates Lags Red Star. EoN. 288	Posted - 2013.11.11 06:14:00 - [31] - Quote No, the heavy suit is "underpowered" now because it gets a far worse deal with TTK as it is now because HP means less than it ever has before. If AR, SMG and SCR are nerfed though TTK should return back to normal and the suit itself won't need a buff. Doubles ISK
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 4456	Posted - 2013.11.11 06:19:00 - [32] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Then lobby for the nerf of the AR not the buff of the HMG. Scouts being as thin as THEY are dont need heavies doing more damage. Heavies being as heavy as they are dont need more HP (3 - 6 shotgun shots to bring one dont if they register at all) and Just so you know, Nova Knives are better used on assault and logi suits then Scouts. If you buff the heavy any more you're causing the scout to become even more useless and its nearly dead anyways, at the very least heavies have forgeguns to keep them as a playable class alive. you don't know when to quit do you... Your logic is don't buff the HMG because scouts... Honestly... I know scouts need a buff, but that's for scouts to write about. Don't come in here and talk don't buff heavies because scouts will suffer...dafuq did I just read. I swear I hear the dumbest things on this forum. I don't care if the AR gets nerf, THAT'S NOT THE ARGUMENT FOR HEAVIES. Here, I'll tell you what heavies need to do their job: - Less bullet spread on HMGs - If decreasing spread is not an option, increase DMG - If increasing DMG is not an option, increase HP by AT LEAST 50% - If that's not an option, take the class out the game, take scouts out of the game, and let only medium suits play. ( ._.) <('.'<) "There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
Eurydice Itzhak Militaires Sans Jeux 236	Posted - 2013.11.11 07:15:00 - [33] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: I just met a Heavy in the Gallente research lab map. He wrecked everything in his way. Killed 3 blueberries who were firing at him, and he would have almost killed me, as I've slain him with my OMGWTFBBQ Scambler rifle, with 50HP left. Heavies are totally underpowered His name is Jacques Clayton (or very similar to that) He was in my squad. I only remember because i saw you in game for the first time and then you immediately started firing swarms at me. He is an EXCEPTIONAL player. Do not use him as a grounds for evaluation.
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 4457	Posted - 2013.11.11 07:31:00 - [34] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I just met a Heavy in the Gallente research lab map. He wrecked everything in his way. Killed 3 blueberries who were firing at him, and he would have almost killed me, as I've slain him with my OMGWTFBBQ Scambler rifle, with 50HP left. Heavies are totally underpowered His name is Jacques Clayton (or very similar to that) He was in my squad. I only remember because i saw you in game for the first time and then you immediately started firing swarms at me. He is an EXCEPTIONAL player. Do not use him as a grounds for evaluation. lol pub games... even militia heavies can do good given the "competition" sometimes ( ._.) <('.'<) "There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
Cosgar ParagonX 7639	Posted - 2013.11.11 07:38:00 - [35] - Quote Honestly, they need to just revert the HMG back to replication's stats but increase heat build up rate and add a sharpshooter skill. It's supposed to be a heavy weapon and needs to be treated as such. Dust needs a weapon that stops idiots from running head on into everything blindly to encourage more tactics. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 637	Posted - 2013.11.11 07:47:00 - [36] - Quote I think the problem with heavies is that they crap for situation awareness. I run a scout suit and always sneak up on heavies from behind getting pretty easy kills with plasma cannon. I don't see much of a problem with this. I barely ever see heavies use cover, they too often run around solo thinking that they are a mini-Tank. When I think of a heavy I think it was meant to be played as a part of a squad with logis close by repping them. If you run by urself or you are out in the open in a heavy suit, you deserve to die. Disclosure: I've only run A-1 in this build, I dont run heavy as my main.
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 4457	Posted - 2013.11.11 07:51:00 - [37] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: I think the problem with heavies is that they crap for situation awareness. I run a scout suit and always sneak up on heavies from behind getting pretty easy kills with plasma cannon. I don't see much of a problem with this. I barely ever see heavies use cover, they too often run around solo thinking that they are a mini-Tank. When I think of a heavy I think it was meant to be played as a part of a squad with logis close by repping them. If you run by urself or you are out in the open in a heavy suit, you deserve to die. Disclosure: I've only run A-1 in this build, I dont run heavy as my main. You're talking about the typical clueless player. Doesn't matter what class he plays that's how he'll play anyway. ( ._.) <('.'<) "There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 37	Posted - 2013.11.11 08:05:00 - [38] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Then lobby for the nerf of the AR not the buff of the HMG. Scouts being as thin as THEY are dont need heavies doing more damage. Heavies being as heavy as they are dont need more HP (3 - 6 shotgun shots to bring one dont if they register at all) and Just so you know, Nova Knives are better used on assault and logi suits then Scouts. If you buff the heavy any more you're causing the scout to become even more useless and its nearly dead anyways, at the very least heavies have forgeguns to keep them as a playable class alive. .......Since when have I been saying "heavies are UP, and need a buff"? All I'm pointing out is that you're saying stupid things about heavies needing to HTFU about their situation, when the truth is no, they shouldn't HTFU, they should complain, and CCP should fix the problem. Quite frankly, I don't think a raw EHP buff will ever really make heavies awesome and balanced. IMO, I'd say that a damage resistance buff would be far better, but that's an entirely different topic than the discussion at hand. When it comes down to it, right now, before we know what is in 1.7 (besides the RR and CR), I'd rather petition CCP to fix the HMG hitreg problem, and decrease the dispersion of the Assault HMG variant across the board, as well as changing the AssHMG to have an decreased accuracy-spool time. There, we've given heavies a solid bandaid that isn't going to hurt to pull off if we have to in order to implement new heavy weapons in a balanced fashion. That's not so hard to figure out, now is it. Also, scoutbro problems should be brought up by scoutbros. I think it's important for heavybros to go, "hey, scoutbros need some love too", but then the heavybros should refer to threads made by the scoutbros. Further, this thread wasn't about scout problems, it was about you whinging on about how you think that heavies should HTFU because they can just slap an AR on their suit and call it a day. Finally, it's really the general problem with the very low TTK in DUST right now that both heavies and scouts are struggling along right now. As a final note to you, explain in detail and with logic why nova knives should be used on a medium frame suit as a primary weapon choice. God Hates Lags wrote: No, the heavy suit is "underpowered" now because it gets a far worse deal with TTK as it is now because HP means less than it ever has before. If AR, SMG and SCR are nerfed though TTK should return back to normal and the suit itself won't need a buff. I don't think a general AR/SMG/ScR nerf will fix TTK problems. A general EHP buff, on the other, would probably be a much better start. Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: Here, I'll tell you what heavies need to do their job: - Less bullet spread on HMGs - If decreasing spread is not an option, increase DMG - If increasing DMG is not an option, increase HP by AT LEAST 50% - If that's not an option, take the class out the game, take scouts out of the game, and let only medium suits play. I don't think an EHP buff is really going to help much, without making the heavy brokenly powerful. I also think that the HMG should start off with high spread, but very rapidly become very accurate within its optimal range. See above for my thoughts on at least band-aiding the HMG until we learn what more gubbins CCP has in store for DUST. Ludvig Enraga wrote: I think the problem with heavies is that they crap for situation awareness. I run a scout suit and always sneak up on heavies from behind getting pretty easy kills with plasma cannon. I don't see much of a problem with this. I barely ever see heavies use cover, they too often run around solo thinking that they are a mini-Tank. When I think of a heavy I think it was meant to be played as a part of a squad with logis close by repping them. If you run by urself or you are out in the open in a heavy suit, you deserve to die. Disclosure: I've only run A-1 in this build, I dont run heavy as my main. The majority of players, I find, are terminally stupid. It's kind of sad, really. That being said, I think part of your experience is that you run a scout, and are thus stealthier, faster, flimsier, and thus generally required to play smarter not harder right out of the box. A heavy player will probably gravitate because of "HEAVY STRONK, with STRONK HEAVY GUN", and only gradually realize that you've got to actually use your brain nearly, or even just as much, as a scout. Cyrius Li-Moody made a video about NK hitreg in 1.6, but did comment tangentially about the archetype of heavies being generally stupid. I think that archetype is probably a result of the general idea of the heavy- you're a big, strong, tough, clone soldier, who gets even bigger, stronger, and tougher by using a heavy suit, and you're supposed to carry the most destructive weapons in the game. Most players will automatically think they are somewhat invincible, and particularly in the scout vs heavy dynamic, the average heavy will consider a scout to be a light snack to be served before the appetizers and main course of enemy medium/heavy frames and vehicles, respectively. Then suddenly a scout baits a heavy into a REX trap, and ruins that innocence of indestructibility forever. Such is DUST. In any case, the real thing I wanted to bring up to you is that I STRONGLY disagree that it should be nearly or entirely impossible to run solo as a heavy. I run solo pretty much 99% of the time, so it's important that I be able to function on my own and unsupported. I do not think that heavies should be able to do this easily, but I do think it should be possible.
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 609	Posted - 2013.11.11 08:32:00 - [39] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: As a final note to you, explain in detail and with logic why nova knives should be used on a medium frame suit as a primary weapon choice. take Cal logi + nova knives Highs - 3 complex Myofibril 2 shield extenders Lows 2 complex Catalyzers 2 complex regulators Callogi is now faster, has more stamina, can use MELEE better then any of the scout suits, has more EHP and raw HP Gal logi + nova knives highs - 3 complex myfiber Lows - 2 complex Catalyzers 2 complex regulators 1 complex plate Same thing happens, faster, more stamina, melee is better, more EHP and raw HP on and on, this formula can also be used by assaults and logi's of the other two races. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 609	Posted - 2013.11.11 08:34:00 - [40] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: I don't think a general AR/SMG/ScR nerf will fix TTK problems. A general EHP buff, on the other, would probably be a much better start. An EHP buff to heavies would make scouts all but useless against them. Scout would need near instant kill potental alpha damage within 10 meters if EHP goes up. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)

Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 611	Posted - 2013.11.11 08:42:00 - [41] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: I don't think a general AR/SMG/ScR nerf will fix TTK problems. A general EHP buff, on the other, would probably be a much better start. I don't think an EHP buff is really going to help much, without making the heavy brokenly powerful. I also think that the HMG should start off with high spread, but very rapidly become very accurate within its optimal range. See above for my thoughts on at least band-aiding the HMG until we learn what more gubbins CCP has in store for DUST. haha oh wow, almost missed you contridicting yourself in the same post. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 38	Posted - 2013.11.11 19:01:00 - [42] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: take Cal logi + nova knives Highs - 3 complex Myofibril 2 shield extenders Lows 2 complex Catalyzers 2 complex regulators Callogi is now faster, has more stamina, can use MELEE better then any of the scout suits, has more EHP and raw HP Gal logi + nova knives highs - 3 complex myfiber Lows - 2 complex Catalyzers 2 complex regulators 1 complex plate Same thing happens, faster, more stamina, melee is better, more EHP and raw HP on and on, this formula can also be used by assaults and logi's of the other two races. If you had tried to use the Amarr Logi as the example, I might have believed you. As it is, those two fits are the most moronic things I have ever seen in DUST. Also, Myofibril Stimulants do not affect NKs. Ask any NK'er, and they'll easily tell you that you have made a bad NK fit. The least you could have done would be to fit Sidearm Damage mods (which DO affect NKs). Also, sure, the fits you've presented might be passable. But a Scout will still do better since they can carry another weapon in addition to the NKs, and have a smaller hitbox, and be more difficult to scan down. Unless your profile dampening skills are maxed, the cheapest of Scanners will light you up like a Christmas tree. Mossellia Delt wrote: An EHP buff to heavies would make scouts all but useless against them. Scout would need near instant kill potental alpha damage within 10 meters if EHP goes up. Your reading comprehension fail continues to go on. My comments regarding a general, as in, for all classes, EHP buff is in regards to the incredibly low TTK issues that are affecting everybody in the game. Also, you seem to be obsessed with your ability to kill a heavy while using a scout suit. For the record, the average heavy doesn't really act all that intelligently, and is generally easy to bait into a Remote trap. There, you now have 1500 alpha damage, and if that doesn't kill a heavy, a few shotgun blasts (or even a grenade or two) will easily finish them off. Seriously, the maximum EHP a proto heavy can get right now is ~1700-1800 EHP. A STD-level Locus Grenade will easily wipe a heavy off the map after taking a Remote Explosive to the face. For the record, the whole basis of scout vs heavy balance is supposed to be that the scout can outmaneuver the heavy, and is also unable to be seen by the heavy. Heavies are (EWAR wise) big and noisy. Get your scan skills up, and you'll be able to see us coming from miles away, while we'll never know you're there until you stab us in the back. Mossellia Delt wrote: Templar 514 wrote: I don't think a general AR/SMG/ScR nerf will fix TTK problems. A general EHP buff, on the other, would probably be a much better start. I don't think an EHP buff is really going to help much, without making the heavy brokenly powerful. I also think that the HMG should start off with high spread, but very rapidly become very accurate within its optimal range. See above for my thoughts on at least band-aiding the HMG until we learn what more gubbins CCP has in store for DUST. haha oh wow, almost missed you contridicting yourself in the same post. Key things, even bullet pointed to aid your ability to understand the point I am making: 1. The reference to general EHP is in regards to the current issues with incredibly low TTK, since those issues are not limited to the AR/AScR/SMG weapons, but are rather universal. 2. I am speaking of a specific buff to the heavy class's EHP. A raw EHP buff of the heavy would eventually end with heavies having as much health as an HAV. While this is appealing to a degree, it would also be brokenly OP. To recap, just in case your ability to read is still so bad that you understand nothing: I'm not contradicting (protip: there's an "A" in the word "contrAdicting") myself, I'm actually making two different observations, these being: 1. TTK is much too low right now, so a general EHP buff to EVERY SINGLE CLASS in the game, would probably help alleviate some of that problem. I don't think it would fix it, but it would probably help- scouts in particular, since you seem so hung up on scouts not being able to kill heavies. 2. An EHP buff to ONLY the heavy suit would very easily and very quickly become OP, and so a different solution should be sought after.
WAR-MONGER SLAUGHTER Unkn0wn Killers 4	Posted - 2013.11.11 19:23:00 - [43] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Please forumites, please stop bitching about the heavy suit being under powered. The heavy suit is not underpowered, just because the AR is OP and Assault / Logi suits need to be fixed does not mean the heavy suit itself is under powered. The HMG being crap does not making the heavy suit underpowered unlike what I see people posting about. The HMG is not the heavy suit. Please remember this. The suit is not the problem .. we all know it has the most hp .. I have mine up to 1799 hp .. the problem is that hmg ... yall cry about the forge over & over ... so they nerfed it & halved the splash damage ... fine .. but all we have left is that short range hmg .. pulling less than 20 hp damage ( without damage mods ) its not enough. I know I can use ARs .. but that's not what I became a heavy for .. I want heavy weapons .. n we don't have any .. imo they shouldn't have touched the forge gun until they introduced 1 or more new heavy weapons ... but its done.. so now we either want more weapons ASAP .. or a range or damage buff ... like NOW .. why pick the slowest character in the game .. to use the same weapons a faster character can use... we don't want that .. we want heavy weapons ... that need a heavy suit in order to wield ... until then . we will keep requesting our fair share ! https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=120183&find=unread *WAR-MONGER SLAUGHTER ... THE GOD HEAVY*
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1121	Posted - 2013.11.11 20:06:00 - [44] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Then lobby for the nerf of the AR not the buff of the HMG. Man, if you think the AR is a problem just wait until the rail rifle and combat rifle are in game... the AR is looking like it has the short end of the stick. As for the Heavy suit itself, I think most of the serious users agree it's fine. In fact, the reaction of most dedicated heavies to the HP buff was, "GÇª wut? That's not what we asked for." All the class needs to be balanced is: 1) A -5% dispersion/level Sharpshooter skill for HMG, same thing that AR and SMG have already had since Uprising 1.0. 2) Content. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 611	Posted - 2013.11.11 20:22:00 - [45] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: If you had tried to use the Amarr Logi as the example, I might have believed you. As it is, those two fits are the most moronic things I have ever seen in DUST. Also, Myofibril Stimulants do not affect NKs. Ask any NK'er, and they'll easily tell you that you have made a bad NK fit. The least you could have done would be to fit Sidearm Damage mods (which DO affect NKs). Also, sure, the fits you've presented might be passable. But a Scout will still do better since they can carry another weapon in addition to the NKs, and have a smaller hitbox, and be more difficult to scan down. Unless your profile dampening skills are maxed, the cheapest of Scanners will light you up like a Christmas tree. You obviously dont understand nova knives, first nova knives increase base melee damage when using MELEE not the strike or charged strike. Second, Iv seen logi's and assaults using the knives to better effect then any scout because they can take some damage before instantly dying. Maybe you should see me play when im getting 20+ kills in an ambush with nova knives. Maybe you should talk to other scouts who I play with and you'll get that im in the upper ranks of scout badassery. Guess what, the whole scan issue is bullshit, maybe read into it a bit. Medium frames have the same base scan radius as light suits. Templar 514 wrote: Your reading comprehension fail continues to go on. My comments regarding a general, as in, for all classes, EHP buff is in regards to the incredibly low TTK issues that are affecting everybody in the game. Also, you seem to be obsessed with your ability to kill a heavy while using a scout suit. For the record, the average heavy doesn't really act all that intelligently, and is generally easy to bait into a Remote trap. There, you now have 1500 alpha damage, and if that doesn't kill a heavy, a few shotgun blasts (or even a grenade or two) will easily finish them off. Seriously, the maximum EHP a proto heavy can get right now is ~1700-1800 EHP. A STD-level Locus Grenade will easily wipe a heavy off the map after taking a Remote Explosive to the face. For the record, the whole basis of scout vs heavy balance is supposed to be that the scout can outmaneuver the heavy, and is also unable to be seen by the heavy. Heavies are (EWAR wise) big and noisy. Get your scan skills up, and you'll be able to see us coming from miles away, while we'll never know you're there until you stab us in the back. So lets force scouts to use specific equipment or weapons. Maybe if we had more then one equipment slot we could fit REs, but I for one use hives, and I know many use uplinks or scanners. Dont shoe horn us into REs. As for the weapons not all scouts use shotguns, we use all manner of weapons. But guess what, no matter what we use, Assaults and logis use them better. And the last part "the whole basis of scout vs heavy balance is supposed to be that the scout can outmaneuver the heavy" IS kinda imposible since heavies can turn as fast as scouts. Which doesnt allow us to run around them without being instant killed. Play a scout, even a mlt one, for a few games. Now imagine that but it costs you 150k isk a suit. It dies to 0.5 of a second of incoming fire, grenades instant kill no matter what, and we cant make any mistake or its instantly fatal. WE CANT EVEN SURVIVE A SMALL FALL. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 4471	Posted - 2013.11.11 20:29:00 - [46] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: And the last part "the whole basis of scout vs heavy balance is supposed to be that the scout can outmaneuver the heavy" IS kinda imposible since heavies can turn as fast as scouts. Which doesnt allow us to run around them without being instant killed. Play a scout, even a mlt one, for a few games. Now imagine that but it costs you 150k isk a suit. It dies to 0.5 of a second of incoming fire, grenades instant kill no matter what, and we cant make any mistake or its instantly fatal. WE CANT EVEN SURVIVE A SMALL FALL. your arguments for scouts is starting to get obnoxious now. "On the matter of the heavy suit" <-- title of the thread. Shut up about balancing heavy suits to cater to scout suits. I don't give a **** what scout suits get tbh, all people want is the HMG buffed. Go cry in a thread about scouts. ( ._.) <('.'<) "There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 611	Posted - 2013.11.11 20:32:00 - [47] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: And the last part "the whole basis of scout vs heavy balance is supposed to be that the scout can outmaneuver the heavy" IS kinda imposible since heavies can turn as fast as scouts. Which doesnt allow us to run around them without being instant killed. Play a scout, even a mlt one, for a few games. Now imagine that but it costs you 150k isk a suit. It dies to 0.5 of a second of incoming fire, grenades instant kill no matter what, and we cant make any mistake or its instantly fatal. WE CANT EVEN SURVIVE A SMALL FALL. your arguments for scouts is starting to get obnoxious now. "On the matter of the heavy suit" <-- title of the thread. Shut up about balancing heavy suits to cater to scout suits. I don't give a **** what scout suits get tbh, all people want is the HMG buffed. Go cry in a thread about scouts. Or you could not be in MY thread. HMG is not the heavy, if you dumbasses could get that through your large thick skull you might understand that. At least heavies seem to have a place in PC but you never see two or three scouts per team. You never see people looking for scouts in EoN PC, they wont even accept scouts for PC battles last I checked. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 4471	Posted - 2013.11.11 20:46:00 - [48] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: And the last part "the whole basis of scout vs heavy balance is supposed to be that the scout can outmaneuver the heavy" IS kinda imposible since heavies can turn as fast as scouts. Which doesnt allow us to run around them without being instant killed. Play a scout, even a mlt one, for a few games. Now imagine that but it costs you 150k isk a suit. It dies to 0.5 of a second of incoming fire, grenades instant kill no matter what, and we cant make any mistake or its instantly fatal. WE CANT EVEN SURVIVE A SMALL FALL. your arguments for scouts is starting to get obnoxious now. "On the matter of the heavy suit" <-- title of the thread. Shut up about balancing heavy suits to cater to scout suits. I don't give a ** what scout suits get tbh, all people want is the HMG buffed. Go cry in a thread about scouts. Or you could not be in MY thread. HMG is not the heavy, if you dumbasses could get that through your large thick skull you might understand that. At least heavies seem to have a place in PC but you never see two or three scouts per team. You never see people looking for scouts in EoN PC, they wont even accept scouts for PC battles last I checked. HMG is not heavy? What is it, a scout?... Heavies have no place in PC... other than rooftop campers with FGs. If you see a heavy it's because they can't get another Assault player, OR you put 2-4 heavies in a room and tell them defend that. I've seen scouts do hit and run tactics quite effectively in PC games... don't know what you talking about. You bring scout suits vs heavies like that matters somehow... the OP was the dumbest ever, and the thread continues to be a joke. You're the dumbass that don't get people don't care about the suit, people have been asking to BUFF THE HMG NOT THE SUIT.** So continue pretending that people are asking for a suit buff. ( ._.) <('.'<) "There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
WAR-MONGER SLAUGHTER Unkn0wn Killers 7	Posted - 2013.11.12 01:24:00 - [49] - Quote You're the dumbass that don't get people don't care about the suit, people have been asking to [u wrote: BUFF THE HMG NOT THE SUIT. [/u] So continue pretending that people are asking for a suit buff. truth!!!!! *WAR-MONGER SLAUGHTER ... THE GOD HEAVY*
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2013.11.12 02:38:00 - [50] - Quote The OP is obviously clueless. Allow me to demonstrate: Mossellia Delt wrote: You obviously dont understand nova knives, first nova knives increase base melee damage when using MELEE not the strike or charged strike. ..........You have no idea how NKs work. CCP's tagging system classifies them as a sidearm weapon, which is why they go into a sidearm slot and are found in the sidearm section of the marketplace. If they actually did just buff your melee damage, then answer the following question: Why does the Minmatar Scout have a bonus to both melee and NK damage? Mossellia Delt wrote: Second, Iv seen logi's and assaults using the knives to better effect then any scout because they can take some damage before instantly dying. This is an arguably valid point at present, but this is more because scout suits are UP. Scout problems are not the topic of this thread, as the title is "On the matter of the heavy suit". As such, it's supposed to discuss problems that heavies are having. If you want to discuss scout problems, then make a separate thread about it, because people are coming to this thread to talk about HEAVY problems, not SCOUT problems. Mossellia Delt wrote: Maybe you should see me play when im getting 20+ kills in an ambush with nova knives. I find any quoted performance for Ambush matches to automatically be suspect. In fact, I find quoted kill performance for any game mode to automatically be suspect. Can you provide third-party verifiable sources that indicate that 60-70%+ of all Ambush matches that you use NKs, and only NKs, in, you go 20+ kills? Mossellia Delt wrote: Maybe you should talk to other scouts who I play with and you'll get that im in the upper ranks of scout badassery. I checked the Scout Registry, and you're not on it, so obviously you are not actually a scout. And I checked for your alts names as well, so don't bother pulling that card. Of course, you can provide the names of some of the scouts who play with you and I can follow up on this claim of yours. But I doubt that you'll do that. Mossellia Delt wrote: Guess what, the whole scan issue is bullshit, maybe read into it a bit. Medium frames have the same base scan radius as light suits. You are obviously an idiot, because you would know this is false as of Uprising 1.6. Also, Light frames/Scouts have a reduced scan profile and better scan precision than everybody else by default. Maybe you should pay more attention to passive scanner mechanics.

Kira Takizawa Ethereal Eden 11	Posted - 2013.11.12 02:40:00 - [51] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Templar 514 wrote: TL;DR (because I know you didn't since you are obviously a heavy hater who knows nothing about heavies), the problem isn't the suit, it's that the defining feature of the heavy class, that being heavy weapons, are being outmoded by light-class weapons that are better put to use on medium frame suits. You know nothing of me, as someone who did play Heavy during Chromo as well ( Moselder was heavy, Medrean - Logi and this character a scout / pilot) I know the heavy roll and Im saving my SP currently to spec into minmatar heavies once they are released. And the limit on choices of heavy weapons maybe be a problem but my entire thread is about the suit itself not being underpowered. You want to feel a REAL underpowered suit? Spec into scouts which can run you 180k isk with less then 300 HP. Then you can complain. The suit itself isn't underpowered it's the players skills that are below the stardard to use it correctly..
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 613	Posted - 2013.11.12 02:45:00 - [52] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: I checked the Scout Registry, and you're not on it, so obviously you are not actually a scout. And I checked for your alts names as well, so don't bother pulling that card. You cant read then 9126 - Mossellia Delt (201, 0) on the scout registory. Go ask shotty how well I use the scout since I play with him oftan. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2013.11.12 02:56:00 - [53] - Quote Continued due to quote volume. Mossellia Delt wrote: So lets force scouts to use specific equipment or weapons. Maybe if we had more then one equipment slot we could fit REs, but I for one use hives, and I know many use uplinks or scanners. Dont shoe horn us into REs. There's no reason that you cannot swap suits mid-battle. There's also no reason that you can't fit to counter a specific situation. In fact, fitting to counter specific threats is kind of a thing in DUST. You fit AV weapons to kill vehicles, you fit anti-infantry weapons to kill infantry. MDs for area denial and turning chokepoints into killboxes, Sniper Rifles to kill people from halfway across the map, Shotguns for CQC dominance, you get the idea. Mossellia Delt wrote: As for the weapons not all scouts use shotguns, we use all manner of weapons. But guess what, no matter what we use, Assaults and logis use them better. There's nothing wrong with Scouts using any weapon they want to. I do want to note that many Scouts like to carry grenades on one or two of their fits, so it's perfectly reasonable to think that a scout player might decide, "hmm, I want to be able to kill heavies, well, if I fit Remotes and some Locus Grenades, then I can bait them into a trap with my soft and squishy self, since heavies generally take the bait". Also, any problems with medium frame suits using light weapons better than a light suit can is something to be brought up in a thread that's about Scouts. There's a "Create New Topic" button on the forums, use it. Mossellia Delt wrote: And the last part "the whole basis of scout vs heavy balance is supposed to be that the scout can outmaneuver the heavy" IS kinda imposible since heavies can turn as fast as scouts. Which doesnt allow us to run around them without being instant killed. I'm not saying outmaneuver=run rings around a heavy. I'm saying outmaneuver=sneak up behind a heavy. Look, most players that play scout know that they are flimsy and fast and sneaky, and so they play to their strengths and minimize their weaknesses as best they can, since they, like heavies, have drastic differences between the two aspects. Unlike medium frames, which are more generalized and (supposed to) have lesser strengths and lesser weaknesses, light and heavy suits are much more specialized. So you build around those limitations, while taking advantage of the strengths that you gain. Mossellia Delt wrote: Play a scout, even a mlt one, for a few games. Now imagine that but it costs you 150k isk a suit. It dies to 0.5 of a second of incoming fire, grenades instant kill no matter what, and we cant make any mistake or its instantly fatal. WE CANT EVEN SURVIVE A SMALL FALL. I have both a Dragonfly and a Dren Scout BPO. I have played with scout fits to what degree I can, since there isn't an Amarr Scout yet. First off, there's no reason to run proto all the time if you die so rapidly. Secondly, TTK is so low right now that that sort of experience is the norm. Third, I have survived dozens of small falls in a Scout suit. Stop whining about that. Finally, you knew that Scouts were fragile and that mistakes would generally see you off to a new clone, so stop whining when you are getting exactly what you signed up for. If I ran Scout more often, I wouldn't mind dying if I screwed up, since it'd be my own fault. Quite frankly, even a heavy will die if he screws up, since he's too slow to try and run away, and two or three players will whittle him down to nothing, even in a protoheavy suit. Mossellia Delt wrote: You cant read then 9126 - Mossellia Delt (201, 0) on the scout registory. Go ask shotty how well I use the scout since I play with him oftan. There's a lot of entries, and I glanced through. Also, I find that I don't really care what you have to say about NKs. If Maken Tosch says stuff about them, I listen- he has easily established his credibility as a dedicated NK'er. In fact, I think I've even been stabbed in the face a couple times by him, so I do have some first-hand experience of dying on his blades. OTOH, you have established no verifiable evidence of your credibility on, well, any of the issues your bringing up. Further, you keep distracting the purpose of the thread with whinging about "oh, if you buff heavies then scouts will be powerless against them!" Just shut up about it already! You've clearly established that you think scouts are in a bad place right now, so go make a new thread about that to get more discussion rolling so CCP can get things done sooner.
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:03:00 - [54] - Quote More quote volume! Mossellia Delt wrote: You never see people looking for scouts in EoN PC, they wont even accept scouts for PC battles last I checked. Two things: 1. You're not in EoN. Why do you care? 2. PC dorks want teams of Assault dudes to murder everything. They don't care about heavies unless they have FGs, and even then it's just so they can tower camp. Proof here: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: Heavies have no place in PC... other than rooftop campers with FGs. If you see a heavy it's because they can't get another Assault player, OR you put 2-4 heavies in a room and tell them defend that. This guy is in EoN. and is a self-proclaimed heavy. However, I assume if someone decided to find some other EoN. dorks who were also in Lance's corp, they would confirm that Lance is a protoheavybro, and no longer uses it except for specific situations called for by the alliance/corp during PC battles, or pub matches. And while I hate agreeing with PC corps about anything, it is true that judging performance based on pub matches is dumb. At least start in the FW arenas, where player groups tend to be much more encouraged to organize themselves.
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 613	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:04:00 - [55] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: so stop whining when you are getting exactly what you signed up for. I started scouts in chromo and spec straight into them in uprising, I didnt sign up for being constantly nerfed into oblivion. I remember when we could, you know, strafe, before AR and heavies bitched about us being OP because of it. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
lok rark StealthSquad 10	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:04:00 - [56] - Quote Mossellia you dont understand because you pay nothing for your scout suits. If you HAD SP'ed into Heavy you know A/1 sentinel and Basic cost ALOT more. So much more with all the mods... but now we get ripped up like we are scouts and have to BUY as many suits as you. Its impossible to win that much a match anymore. Its also impossible to run to cover at the speed a heavy runs unlike a scout. I could see why you might think heavy was O.K now ITS BECAUSE YOU RUN ALL CHEAP MILLITA BLUEPRINTS.
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 613	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:05:00 - [57] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: More quote volume! Mossellia Delt wrote: You never see people looking for scouts in EoN PC, they wont even accept scouts for PC battles last I checked. Two things: 1. You're not in EoN. Why do you care? 2. PC dorks want teams of Assault dudes to murder everything. They don't care about heavies unless they have FGs, and even then it's just so they can tower camp. Proof here: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: Heavies have no place in PC... other than rooftop campers with FGs. If you see a heavy it's because they can't get another Assault player, OR you put 2-4 heavies in a room and tell them defend that. This guy is in EoN. and is a self-proclaimed heavy. However, I assume if someone decided to find some other EoN. dorks who were also in Lance's corp, they would confirm that Lance is a protoheavybro, and no longer uses it except for specific situations called for by the alliance/corp during PC battles, or pub matches. And while I hate agreeing with PC corps about anything, it is true that judging performance based on pub matches is dumb. At least start in the FW arenas, where player groups tend to be much more encouraged to organize themselves. Once again, you have no idea who I am, my alts have been in Not Guilty, Pure Innocence and The Generals. So yes, iv been in EoN. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 613	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:06:00 - [58] - Quote lok rark wrote: Mossellia you dont understand because you pay nothing for your scout suits. If you HAD SP'ed into Heavy you know A/1 sentinel and Basic cost ALOT more. So much more with all the mods... but now we get ripped up like we are scouts and have to BUY as many suits as you. Its impossible to win that much a match anymore. Its also impossible to run to cover at the speed a heavy runs unlike a scout. I could see why you might think heavy was O.K now ITS BECAUSE YOU RUN ALL CHEAP MILLITA BLUEPRINTS. I run prototype mimatar scout suits you ****, and maybe you should check the market prices, the scotu suit and sentinal are the same price. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 878	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:07:00 - [59] - Quote Guys don't worry about Mossellia She's just got a really bad case of a illness called logic. It usually disappears after 48 hours. There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
lok rark StealthSquad 10	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:08:00 - [60] - Quote see how do you like it when people f@ck with YOU for no reason. Leave the Heavies alone

Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 613	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:10:00 - [61] - Quote lok rark wrote: see how do you like it when people f@ck with YOU for no reason. Leave the Heavies alone You stupid bro? Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
lok rark StealthSquad 10	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:11:00 - [62] - Quote yea i didn't realize this was a troll thread Im stupid i thought it was legit
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:16:00 - [63] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: I started scouts in chromo and spec straight into them in uprising, I didnt sign up for being constantly nerfed into oblivion. I remember when we could, you know, strafe, before AR and heavies bitched about us being OP because of it. I believe more learned minds than mine have already established that mega-death-strafe-speeds of scouts in ages past actually broke the HD completely, making said scouts invincible. Further, you did sign up to be paper thin and incredibly sneaky and mobile. Now I will agree, there is probably tweaking needed to emphasize the mobility of scouts, and I certainly think that there is some changes that need to be made to emphasize the sneakiness of scouts. But those things should be discussed in a thread dedicated to the topic of scouts. Mossellia Delt wrote: Once again, you have no idea who I am, my alts have been in Not Guilty, Pure Innocence and The Generals. So yes, iv been in EoN. You never stated such. Since this is the case, I will ask anyone else in EoN. who posts in this thread to confirm this information. You understand, of course, that I'm not just going to take your word for it. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, as the saying goes. Mossellia Delt wrote: I run prototype mimatar scout suits you ***, and maybe you should check the market prices, the scotu suit and sentinal are the same price. The Sentinel A/1-Series costs ~13,000 ISK. The Scout M/1-Series costs 8k ISK on the dot, the same as every other non-heavy suit in the game. The Heavy Frame has it even worse compared to your minja suit, since the Heavy Frame A/1-Series costs at least* 21k ISK. And again, there's nothing that requires to you run minja suits all the time. And if you're really a part of EoN., then why are you not rolling in ISK from being a PC corp, thus allowing you to run proto 24/7?
lok rark StealthSquad 10	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:29:00 - [64] - Quote See im stupid... not only did i get drawn into a scout thread, I was right about the price and let you call me on it. Heavies attract people with low level intellect I heard so... Why dont you have heavy on your sig
XxWarlordxX97 Ancient Exiles. 5399	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:42:00 - [65] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Vegetation Monster wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Please forumites, please stop bitching about the heavy suit being under powered. The heavy suit is not underpowered, just because the AR is OP and Assault / Logi suits need to be fixed does not mean the heavy suit itself is under powered. The HMG being crap does not making the heavy suit underpowered unlike what I see people posting about. The HMG is not the heavy suit. Please remember this. heavy suit can barley kill a milita scout a foot in front of him, our effective range is 3m, at 20m its like throwing cotton balls enemys... People like you are the problem unless you're being sarcastic. Heavies can use any weapon, its their choice to use the HMG over something else. But complaining the suit itself is underpowered because a gun is doesnt make it underpowered. Boo,HMG needs buff the heavy is fading Level 5 forum warrior Minmatar rule Warrior of bacon and defender of the bacon
Moselder Telend Pure Innocence. EoN. 4	Posted - 2013.11.12 06:46:00 - [66] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: I started scouts in chromo and spec straight into them in uprising, I didnt sign up for being constantly nerfed into oblivion. I remember when we could, you know, strafe, before AR and heavies bitched about us being OP because of it. I believe more learned minds than mine have already established that mega-death-strafe-speeds of scouts in ages past actually broke the HD completely, making said scouts invincible. Further, you did sign up to be paper thin and incredibly sneaky and mobile. Now I will agree, there is probably tweaking needed to emphasize the mobility of scouts, and I certainly think that there is some changes that need to be made to emphasize the sneakiness of scouts. But those things should be discussed in a thread dedicated to the topic of scouts. Mossellia Delt wrote: Once again, you have no idea who I am, my alts have been in Not Guilty, Pure Innocence and The Generals. So yes, iv been in EoN. You never stated such. Since this is the case, I will ask anyone else in EoN. who posts in this thread to confirm this information. You understand, of course, that I'm not just going to take your word for it. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, as the saying goes. Mossellia Delt wrote: I run prototype mimatar scout suits you ***, and maybe you should check the market prices, the scotu suit and sentinal are the same price. The Sentinel A/1-Series costs ~13,000 ISK. The Scout M/1-Series costs 8k ISK on the dot, the same as every other non-heavy suit in the game. The Heavy Frame has it even worse compared to your minja suit, since the Heavy Frame A/1-Series costs at least* 21k ISK. And again, there's nothing that requires to you run minja suits all the time. And if you're really a part of EoN., then why are you not rolling in ISK from being a PC corp, thus allowing you to run proto 24/7? Me posting on this character whos in EoN proof enough?
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 590	Posted - 2013.11.12 14:58:00 - [67] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Honestly, they need to just revert the HMG back to replication's stats but increase heat build up rate and add a sharpshooter skill. It's supposed to be a heavy weapon and needs to be treated as such. Dust needs a weapon that stops idiots from running head on into everything blindly to encourage more tactics. What were its stats in replication?
Kira Takizawa Ethereal Eden 15	Posted - 2013.11.12 16:09:00 - [68] - Quote Moselder Telend wrote: Templar 514 wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: I started scouts in chromo and spec straight into them in uprising, I didnt sign up for being constantly nerfed into oblivion. I remember when we could, you know, strafe, before AR and heavies bitched about us being OP because of it. I believe more learned minds than mine have already established that mega-death-strafe-speeds of scouts in ages past actually broke the HD completely, making said scouts invincible. Further, you did sign up to be paper thin and incredibly sneaky and mobile. Now I will agree, there is probably tweaking needed to emphasize the mobility of scouts, and I certainly think that there is some changes that need to be made to emphasize the sneakiness of scouts. But those things should be discussed in a thread dedicated to the topic of scouts. Mossellia Delt wrote: Once again, you have no idea who I am, my alts have been in Not Guilty, Pure Innocence and The Generals. So yes, iv been in EoN. You never stated such. Since this is the case, I will ask anyone else in EoN. who posts in this thread to confirm this information. You understand, of course, that I'm not just going to take your word for it. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, as the saying goes. Mossellia Delt wrote: I run prototype mimatar scout suits you ***, and maybe you should check the market prices, the scotu suit and sentinal are the same price. The Sentinel A/1-Series costs ~13,000 ISK. The Scout M/1-Series costs 8k ISK on the dot, the same as every other non-heavy suit in the game. The Heavy Frame has it even worse compared to your minja suit, since the Heavy Frame A/1-Series costs at least* 21k ISK. And again, there's nothing that requires to you run minja suits all the time. And if you're really a part of EoN., then why are you not rolling in ISK from being a PC corp, thus allowing you to run proto 24/7? Me posting on this character whos in EoN proof enough? Is being in EoN anything special or are you just throwing it around to make yourself feel special? Last time i checked EoN isn't special just a big alliance..
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 613	Posted - 2013.11.12 16:35:00 - [69] - Quote Kira Takizawa wrote: Is being in EoN anything special or are you just throwing it around to make yourself feel special? Last time i checked EoN isn't special just a big alliance.. Learn to read, he didnt believe my proir post about EoN, PC and scouts. Dumbass Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2013.11.13 00:40:00 - [70] - Quote lok rark wrote: See im stupid... not only did i get drawn into a scout thread, I was right about the price and let you call me on it. Heavies attract people with low level intellect I heard so... Why dont you have heavy on your sig Technically, this is a thread that boils down to the OP whinging about how heavybros should HTFU, because really it's the scoutbros that need love. OP should really have just made a thread about how scoutbros need love, and simply kept their mouth shut about heavybro problems, which they obviously have no understanding of. On the subject of the average intelligence of a heavybro..... Well, I'll admit it. Heavybros do have an archetype of doing stupid stuff (like being constantly baited into Remo traps by wily scoutbros), but I'd also argue that the good, and even moderately-okay heavybros, tend to have to play in similarly smart ways as scouts. Not the same way, mind, but both must play smart- the heavy is slow, and thus can't run away, while the scout is flimsy, and thus will probably not live to run away. If either one bites off more than they can chew, neither will live to see themselves out of the fight. The only difference is that heavies just take a little more time to die, if you go by EHP vs DPS. As a part time heavy, and occasional dabbler in things scouty, I do think that both require significant intelligence. The heavy just plays more methodically, while scouts are a bit twitchier. Moselder Telend wrote: Me posting on this character whos in EoN proof enough? That'll suffice. This being said, since you are in EoN., why can't you transfer the effectively infinite amount of ISK you acquire from PC to keep yourself swimming in proto minja suits from here to the end of the world? Also, since I assume that the toon you used to post the thread is your scout alt, and is obviously not affiliated with EoN. aside from being your alt, why do you care that EoN. doesn't call for scout players? You obviously already have the SP investment into a role that is considered desirable to EoN. (which scouts apparently aren't, according to you), so what's the problem here? The only other EoN. member to post in this thread has commented that scouts are apparently used by EoN. Maybe it's a corp thing, and Pure Innocence. doesn't like scouts, while SyNergy Gaming does? If that's the case, maybe you should request a corp transfer to SyNergy Gaming if they happen to like scouts.

Jackof All-Trades The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 234	Posted - 2013.11.13 01:58:00 - [71] - Quote Nah. I've killed heavies with every weapon there is out there. They're underpowered. "Pulvis et umbra sumus." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
lok rark StealthSquad 10	Posted - 2013.11.13 02:09:00 - [72] - Quote Quote: Technically, this is a thread that boils down to the OP whinging about how heavybros should HTFU, because really it's the scoutbros that need love. OP should really have just made a thread about how scoutbros need love, and simply kept their mouth shut about heavybro problems, which they obviously have no understanding of. I agree this is the real problem. Ccp refuse to address any problems directly. Ie they fix neither the heavy or the scout. (I run Alt scout so I know the pain.) They refuse to fix anything except buff AR!?!. Everyone complains about THEIR OWN set up but CCP WONT listen. So the players are left with no choice except to complain to the other players FOR POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS or acknowledgment that they really do need help . That is STUPID> This is the real question... What OTHER weapon can you run effectively against AR? The REAL ANSWER is idk? none 0.k Scout bros need love to, no doubt. Sry Scouts... As a stupid heavy I assumed all other scouts run the evil ' douvall' or its sinister lil brother the 'geek'. I run lvl5 AsScr G/1scout- lvl 5 MD M/1assault- Lvl 8 heavy WEP A/1 sentinel At this point i have given up trying to figure CCP out and am working on different suit fits instead of heavy. The only good advice i could give is read what the vets are doing instead. I read about a heavy who switched to Assault MD so I tried it... works for me.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1142	Posted - 2013.11.13 02:38:00 - [73] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: At least start in the FW arenas, where player groups tend to be much more encouraged to organize themselves. I'll be honest: I haven't been having too much trouble in FW. My experience there reflects my experience in pubs pretty well. Which is: HMG is still beast in tight areas with lots of cover. HMG dies everywhere else. I don't think the gun needs a tremendous buff, the -5% dispersion/level Sharpshooter skill would do the trick. And if CCP introduced a legitimate weapon option that covers the effective engagement chasm between HMG and Forge Gun, Heavy as a class would be in pretty good shape. It's just hard getting CCP to acknowledge we exist. It's: "No comment. No comment. No comment. Oh yeah. Heavies. Here guys, have something you never asked for and have next to no interest in!" (e.g. Commando, HP Buff) Then again, Scouts get the same treatment with the scan range "buff"... ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
XxWarlordxX97 Ancient Exiles. 5428	Posted - 2013.11.13 02:43:00 - [74] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Heavies have access to every weapon, not just heavy weapons last I checked. Because you (pointing to many in this thread) dont want to use different weapons for diffent situations is your problem. The Assault Rifle is over powered, and the HMG is only under powered because the AR. Not yet have I heard someone say AR vs Nova knives are unfair, AR is too strong. Everyone instead accepts that if you are "this" distance away with Nova Knives you should die, why not look at it the same way with the HMG. Im getting sick of heavies bitching about this crap. Now im good at this game, theres no doubt to that, if you've seen me on a regular basis you know this. I can play my prototype scout using my prototype weapons and I have to struggle to kick as much ass as I do. Now I can jump on my mlt heavy with std HMG and breeze through enemies no problem, even easier if I use my adv FG. To be honest everything is 10 times easier on the mlt heavy then it is on my scout using every weapon I have sans the knives. So sorry if I dont feel sympathy that I can survive longer then 0.5 seconds vs weapon fire like im use to and only spend about 10k isk instead of 150k isk. So ya just run a AR and you will be fine,fix the HMG Level 5 forum warrior Minmatar rule Warrior of bacon and defender of the bacon
Text Grant Death Firm. 220	Posted - 2013.11.13 04:04:00 - [75] - Quote Try this heavies! https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1482038#post1482038
Kira Takizawa Ethereal Eden 15	Posted - 2013.11.13 09:18:00 - [76] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Kira Takizawa wrote: Is being in EoN anything special or are you just throwing it around to make yourself feel special? Last time i checked EoN isn't special just a big alliance.. Learn to read, he didnt believe my proir post about EoN, PC and scouts. Dumbass I've read but does it matter? No matter of who you are with you aren't **** and a nobody to me.
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 615	Posted - 2013.11.13 22:16:00 - [77] - Quote Kira Takizawa wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Kira Takizawa wrote: Is being in EoN anything special or are you just throwing it around to make yourself feel special? Last time i checked EoN isn't special just a big alliance.. Learn to read, he didnt believe my proir post about EoN, PC and scouts. Dumbass I've read but does it matter? No matter of who you are with you aren't ** and a nobody to me. So you're a ****, thats what im picking up? lol Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2013.11.13 22:47:00 - [78] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: I'll be honest: I haven't been having too much trouble in FW. My experience there reflects my experience in pubs pretty well. Which is: HMG is still beast in tight areas with lots of cover. HMG dies everywhere else. I don't think the gun needs a tremendous buff, the -5% dispersion/level Sharpshooter skill would do the trick. And if CCP introduced a legitimate weapon option that covers the effective engagement chasm between HMG and Forge Gun, Heavy as a class would be in pretty good shape. It's just hard getting CCP to acknowledge we exist. It's: "No comment. No comment. No comment. Oh yeah. Heavies. Here guys, have something you never asked for and have next to no interest in!" (e.g. Commando, HP Buff) Then again, Scouts get the same treatment with the scan range "buff"... Hmm. Interesting. Certainly I think that the HMG generally dominates in close quarter engagements, but there are some mechanical problems with its usage (see here for a very thorough examination of HMG hitreg mechanics (also, not mine, but very informative)). That said, I actually think that if the dispersion was functioning more similarly to the shotgun (ref video to see why it currently isn't that way), then just increasing the rate at which the dispersion tightens would go a long way towards helping its damage application. That, along with an increase in the falloff range of the Assault variant of the HMG would certainly go a long ways towards helping out HMG heavies specifically, as well as broadening heavy options generally for the time being. Of course, I do definitely agree that some heavy weapons that lie between HMG and FG effective engagement ranges would be way better. Partly because more huegguns is good, and partly because more content in general is good. As an aside, I thought the Commando buff went a long way towards improving the 'lolmando'. But it's not really a heavy thing insofar as "I want to be bootylicious and carry big guns". It's more of a "I like light-class guns better, and I also think heavies are cool". Commando is a specialization that medium frame guys might take later on to branch out, or that you might start off with to get the (supposed) versatility of two light-class weapons. If we had more variety in the form of weapons aping the function of the launcher-type weapons (MD, PlasCan, Swarms), then I'd say it would actually be more popular. As far as the Scout 'buff'.... I'll keep this as brief as I can, but I don't think it's enough. I do think it's an interesting start, though. It was also a pretty solid perk for users of the Gallente Scout, because now you can get amazing scan range through skills alone, and insane scan range through the careful application of modules. It is also likely an aid to Minjas, though probably not much of one. Text Grant wrote: Try this heavies! https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1482038#post1482038 I don't dig it. The main issue is that a stationary heavy is a dead heavy (I can't count the number of HMG heavy vs HMG heavy duels I've won simply by strafing), and any "long-range anti-infantry" heavy weapon would really need to outrange the rifles. It's somewhat clear that the Assault HMG is supposed to be the equal in range to the AR (even though it currently isn't), so a proper long-range heavy weapon would need superior-to-AR distance to it, especially considering the fact that heavies can't really run away from a fight- they're just too slow. Once they start shooting, they've committed to the firefight, while even a medium-frame user can generally just run away.
Kira Takizawa Ethereal Eden 15	Posted - 2013.11.14 01:02:00 - [79] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Kira Takizawa wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Kira Takizawa wrote: Is being in EoN anything special or are you just throwing it around to make yourself feel special? Last time i checked EoN isn't special just a big alliance.. Learn to read, he didnt believe my proir post about EoN, PC and scouts. Dumbass I've read but does it matter? No matter of who you are with you aren't ** and a nobody to me. So you're a ****, thats what im picking up? lol Nah not really but it's sad when you try to prove things to people.. if you are in EoN so what no need to prove it to anyone these are one of the saddest acts from humanity :)
Powerh8er Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men. 328	Posted - 2013.11.14 01:31:00 - [80] - Quote Ive just skilled into the ScR now to use instead of the HMG, but i still end up as one of the weakest link in the squad because im in an constant need of nanohives. And the only heavies "dont need" an buff to their hmg are the 25-35 mill sp players, but they seldom play outside their comfort zone or without extensive backup. Everyone knows the hmg is bullcrap, saying otherwise just shows how ignorant some people are. An HMG with less damage per bullet than an SMG? Come on!

Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 618	Posted - 2013.11.14 01:46:00 - [81] - Quote Kira Takizawa wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Kira Takizawa wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Kira Takizawa wrote: Is being in EoN anything special or are you just throwing it around to make yourself feel special? Last time i checked EoN isn't special just a big alliance.. Learn to read, he didnt believe my proir post about EoN, PC and scouts. Dumbass I've read but does it matter? No matter of who you are with you aren't ** and a nobody to me. So you're a **, thats what im picking up? lol Nah not really but it's sad when you try to prove things to people.. if you are in EoN so what no need to prove it to anyone these are one of the saddest acts from humanity :) Im not sure you're literate. He asked me for proof I was in EoN. I gave him proof. You come in an ** the place up being a moron. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Kira Takizawa Ethereal Eden 15	Posted - 2013.11.14 04:29:00 - [82] - Quote And I guess the same goes for you.. I'm not sure you are literate.. again it's sad. And nice name calling can't be civil?


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