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On the matter of the heavy suit

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Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 601	Posted - 2013.11.09 12:16:00 - [1] - Quote Please forumites, please stop bitching about the heavy suit being under powered. The heavy suit is not underpowered, just because the AR is OP and Assault / Logi suits need to be fixed does not mean the heavy suit itself is under powered. The HMG being crap does not making the heavy suit underpowered unlike what I see people posting about. The HMG is not the heavy suit. Please remember this. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 601	Posted - 2013.11.09 12:21:00 - [2] - Quote Vegetation Monster wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Please forumites, please stop bitching about the heavy suit being under powered. The heavy suit is not underpowered, just because the AR is OP and Assault / Logi suits need to be fixed does not mean the heavy suit itself is under powered. The HMG being crap does not making the heavy suit underpowered unlike what I see people posting about. The HMG is not the heavy suit. Please remember this. heavy suit can barley kill a milita scout a foot in front of him, our effective range is 3m, at 20m its like throwing cotton balls enemys... People like you are the problem unless you're being sarcastic. Heavies can use any weapon, its their choice to use the HMG over something else. But complaining the suit itself is underpowered because a gun is doesnt make it underpowered. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 601	Posted - 2013.11.09 12:24:00 - [3] - Quote Coleman Gray wrote: The suit is fine, it's the weapons. I seen more and more heavies tho opting for AR's ect over heavy weapons tho lately, just shows the problem does exist in the weapons, not the suit. Thats my point, people still seem to think its the suit itself though. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 606	Posted - 2013.11.09 21:10:00 - [4] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: TL;DR (because I know you didn't since you are obviously a heavy hater who knows nothing about heavies), the problem isn't the suit, it's that the defining feature of the heavy class, that being heavy weapons, are being outmoded by light-class weapons that are better put to use on medium frame suits. You know nothing of me, as someone who did play Heavy during Chromo as well ( Moselder was heavy, Medrean - Logi and this character a scout / pilot) I know the heavy roll and Im saving my SP currently to spec into minmatar heavies once they are released. And the limit on choices of heavy weapons maybe be a problem but my entire thread is about the suit itself not being underpowered. You want to feel a REAL underpowered suit? Spec into scouts which can run you 180k isk with less then 300 HP. Then you can complain. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 606	Posted - 2013.11.09 21:13:00 - [5] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: The suit doesn't mean a thing when the weapon doesn't offer the opportunity to kill. In other words having 400hp or 600hp means nothing. You just live a little longer to shoot spitballs at red dots. The bonus for the Sentinel suit sucks though. Just what i wanted though, a bonus for a weapon not in the game yet (scrambler HMG? Laser HMG?) Then people should lobby for the weapons alone instead of bitching about the suit itself. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 608	Posted - 2013.11.10 23:36:00 - [6] - Quote Heavies have access to every weapon, not just heavy weapons last I checked. Because you (pointing to many in this thread) dont want to use different weapons for diffent situations is your problem. The Assault Rifle is over powered, and the HMG is only under powered because the AR. Not yet have I heard someone say AR vs Nova knives are unfair, AR is too strong. Everyone instead accepts that if you are "this" distance away with Nova Knives you should die, why not look at it the same way with the HMG. Im getting sick of heavies bitching about this crap. Now im good at this game, theres no doubt to that, if you've seen me on a regular basis you know this. I can play my prototype scout using my prototype weapons and I have to struggle to kick as much ass as I do. Now I can jump on my mlt heavy with std HMG and breeze through enemies no problem, even easier if I use my adv FG. To be honest everything is 10 times easier on the mlt heavy then it is on my scout using every weapon I have sans the knives. So sorry if I dont feel sympathy that I can survive longer then 0.5 seconds vs weapon fire like im use to and only spend about 10k isk instead of 150k isk. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 609	Posted - 2013.11.11 06:09:00 - [7] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Heavies have access to every weapon, not just heavy weapons last I checked. Because you (pointing to many in this thread) dont want to use different weapons for diffent situations is your problem. The Assault Rifle is over powered, and the HMG is only under powered because the AR. Not yet have I heard someone say AR vs Nova knives are unfair, AR is too strong. Everyone instead accepts that if you are "this" distance away with Nova Knives you should die, why not look at it the same way with the HMG. Im getting sick of heavies bitching about this crap. Now im good at this game, theres no doubt to that, if you've seen me on a regular basis you know this. I can play my prototype scout using my prototype weapons and I have to struggle to kick as much ass as I do. Now I can jump on my mlt heavy with std HMG and breeze through enemies no problem, even easier if I use my adv FG. To be honest everything is 10 times easier on the mlt heavy then it is on my scout using every weapon I have sans the knives. So sorry if I dont feel sympathy that I can survive longer then 0.5 seconds vs weapon fire like im use to and only spend about 10k isk instead of 150k isk. /facepalm. Look, I'm going to not be characteristically long-winded about this, and I will obey the KISS principal, because you obviously have no reading comprehension whatsoever. I'll even use bullet points to make it easy to understand. 1. The ENTIRE point of the Heavy dropsuit class is to carry and employ heavy-class weapons. 2. Yes, you can put any other kind of weapon into a heavy weapon slot. No, this is generally not a good idea. 3. If the entire point of the heavy class is to carry heavy weapons, THEN WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO USE AN AR?! The HMG should be the far more attractive choice for a short-medium range full-auto bullet hose, if you're a heavy. For the record, the reason NKs are generally considered acceptable (and even then, dedicated knifers will immediately call you out and call you an idiot for thinking this) is because they are mostly-functional. You get close enough, then there is very little that can actually survive being stabbed in the back. Or in the face, if it's a really good NK'er. The flaw in your reasoning is ultimately that it is understood that NKs require a particular type of suit to take advantage of- usually scouts, for their speed and stealth- but NKs can be put onto any suit in the game. The HMG can only be carried by heavy suits. See above bullet points as to why your argument is flawed and makes you look like you are unable to read. Then lobby for the nerf of the AR not the buff of the HMG. Scouts being as thin as THEY are dont need heavies doing more damage. Heavies being as heavy as they are dont need more HP (3 - 6 shotgun shots to bring one dont if they register at all) and Just so you know, Nova Knives are better used on assault and logi suits then Scouts. If you buff the heavy any more you're causing the scout to become even more useless and its nearly dead anyways, at the very least heavies have forgeguns to keep them as a playable class alive. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 609	Posted - 2013.11.11 08:32:00 - [8] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: As a final note to you, explain in detail and with logic why nova knives should be used on a medium frame suit as a primary weapon choice. take Cal logi + nova knives Highs - 3 complex Myofibril 2 shield extenders Lows 2 complex Catalyzers 2 complex regulators Callogi is now faster, has more stamina, can use MELEE better then any of the scout suits, has more EHP and raw HP Gal logi + nova knives highs - 3 complex myfiber Lows - 2 complex Catalyzers 2 complex regulators 1 complex plate Same thing happens, faster, more stamina, melee is better, more EHP and raw HP on and on, this formula can also be used by assaults and logi's of the other two races. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 609	Posted - 2013.11.11 08:34:00 - [9] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: I don't think a general AR/SMG/ScR nerf will fix TTK problems. A general EHP buff, on the other, would probably be a much better start. An EHP buff to heavies would make scouts all but useless against them. Scout would need near instant kill potental alpha damage within 10 meters if EHP goes up. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 611	Posted - 2013.11.11 08:42:00 - [10] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: I don't think a general AR/SMG/ScR nerf will fix TTK problems. A general EHP buff, on the other, would probably be a much better start. I don't think an EHP buff is really going to help much, without making the heavy brokenly powerful. I also think that the HMG should start off with high spread, but very rapidly become very accurate within its optimal range. See above for my thoughts on at least band-aiding the HMG until we learn what more gubbins CCP has in store for DUST. haha oh wow, almost missed you contridicting yourself in the same post. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)

Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 611	Posted - 2013.11.11 20:22:00 - [11] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: If you had tried to use the Amarr Logi as the example, I might have believed you. As it is, those two fits are the most moronic things I have ever seen in DUST. Also, Myofibril Stimulants do not affect NKs. Ask any NK'er, and they'll easily tell you that you have made a bad NK fit. The least you could have done would be to fit Sidearm Damage mods (which DO affect NKs). Also, sure, the fits you've presented might be passable. But a Scout will still do better since they can carry another weapon in addition to the NKs, and have a smaller hitbox, and be more difficult to scan down. Unless your profile dampening skills are maxed, the cheapest of Scanners will light you up like a Christmas tree. You obviously dont understand nova knives, first nova knives increase base melee damage when using MELEE not the strike or charged strike. Second, Iv seen logi's and assaults using the knives to better effect then any scout because they can take some damage before instantly dying. Maybe you should see me play when im getting 20+ kills in an ambush with nova knives. Maybe you should talk to other scouts who I play with and you'll get that im in the upper ranks of scout badassery. Guess what, the whole scan issue is bullshit, maybe read into it a bit. Medium frames have the same base scan radius as light suits. Templar 514 wrote: Your reading comprehension fail continues to go on. My comments regarding a general, as in, for all classes, EHP buff is in regards to the incredibly low TTK issues that are affecting everybody in the game. Also, you seem to be obsessed with your ability to kill a heavy while using a scout suit. For the record, the average heavy doesn't really act all that intelligently, and is generally easy to bait into a Remote trap. There, you now have 1500 alpha damage, and if that doesn't kill a heavy, a few shotgun blasts (or even a grenade or two) will easily finish them off. Seriously, the maximum EHP a proto heavy can get right now is ~1700-1800 EHP. A STD-level Locus Grenade will easily wipe a heavy off the map after taking a Remote Explosive to the face. For the record, the whole basis of scout vs heavy balance is supposed to be that the scout can outmaneuver the heavy, and is also unable to be seen by the heavy. Heavies are (EWAR wise) big and noisy. Get your scan skills up, and you'll be able to see us coming from miles away, while we'll never know you're there until you stab us in the back. So lets force scouts to use specific equipment or weapons. Maybe if we had more then one equipment slot we could fit REs, but I for one use hives, and I know many use uplinks or scanners. Dont shoe horn us into REs. As for the weapons not all scouts use shotguns, we use all manner of weapons. But guess what, no matter what we use, Assaults and logis use them better. And the last part "the whole basis of scout vs heavy balance is supposed to be that the scout can outmaneuver the heavy" IS kinda imposible since heavies can turn as fast as scouts. Which doesnt allow us to run around them without being instant killed. Play a scout, even a mlt one, for a few games. Now imagine that but it costs you 150k isk a suit. It dies to 0.5 of a second of incoming fire, grenades instant kill no matter what, and we cant make any mistake or its instantly fatal. WE CANT EVEN SURVIVE A SMALL FALL. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 611	Posted - 2013.11.11 20:32:00 - [12] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: And the last part "the whole basis of scout vs heavy balance is supposed to be that the scout can outmaneuver the heavy" IS kinda imposible since heavies can turn as fast as scouts. Which doesnt allow us to run around them without being instant killed. Play a scout, even a mlt one, for a few games. Now imagine that but it costs you 150k isk a suit. It dies to 0.5 of a second of incoming fire, grenades instant kill no matter what, and we cant make any mistake or its instantly fatal. WE CANT EVEN SURVIVE A SMALL FALL. your arguments for scouts is starting to get obnoxious now. "On the matter of the heavy suit" <-- title of the thread. Shut up about balancing heavy suits to cater to scout suits. I don't give a **** what scout suits get tbh, all people want is the HMG buffed. Go cry in a thread about scouts. Or you could not be in MY thread. HMG is not the heavy, if you dumbasses could get that through your large thick skull you might understand that. At least heavies seem to have a place in PC but you never see two or three scouts per team. You never see people looking for scouts in EoN PC, they wont even accept scouts for PC battles last I checked. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 613	Posted - 2013.11.12 02:45:00 - [13] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: I checked the Scout Registry, and you're not on it, so obviously you are not actually a scout. And I checked for your alts names as well, so don't bother pulling that card. You cant read then 9126 - Mossellia Delt (201, 0) on the scout registory. Go ask shotty how well I use the scout since I play with him oftan. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 613	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:04:00 - [14] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: so stop whining when you are getting exactly what you signed up for. I started scouts in chromo and spec straight into them in uprising, I didnt sign up for being constantly nerfed into oblivion. I remember when we could, you know, strafe, before AR and heavies bitched about us being OP because of it. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 613	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:05:00 - [15] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: More quote volume! Mossellia Delt wrote: You never see people looking for scouts in EoN PC, they wont even accept scouts for PC battles last I checked. Two things: 1. You're not in EoN. Why do you care? 2. PC dorks want teams of Assault dudes to murder everything. They don't care about heavies unless they have FGs, and even then it's just so they can tower camp. Proof here: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: Heavies have no place in PC... other than rooftop campers with FGs. If you see a heavy it's because they can't get another Assault player, OR you put 2-4 heavies in a room and tell them defend that. This guy is in EoN. and is a self-proclaimed heavy. However, I assume if someone decided to find some other EoN. dorks who were also in Lance's corp, they would confirm that Lance is a protoheavybro, and no longer uses it except for specific situations called for by the alliance/corp during PC battles, or pub matches. And while I hate agreeing with PC corps about anything, it is true that judging performance based on pub matches is dumb. At least start in the FW arenas, where player groups tend to be much more encouraged to organize themselves. Once again, you have no idea who I am, my alts have been in Not Guilty, Pure Innocence and The Generals. So yes, iv been in EoN. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 613	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:06:00 - [16] - Quote lok rark wrote: Mossellia you dont understand because you pay nothing for your scout suits. If you HAD SP'ed into Heavy you know A/1 sentinel and Basic cost ALOT more. So much more with all the mods... but now we get ripped up like we are scouts and have to BUY as many suits as you. Its impossible to win that much a match anymore. Its also impossible to run to cover at the speed a heavy runs unlike a scout. I could see why you might think heavy was O.K now ITS BECAUSE YOU RUN ALL CHEAP MILLITA BLUEPRINTS. I run prototype mimatar scout suits you ****, and maybe you should check the market prices, the scotu suit and sentinal are the same price. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 613	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:10:00 - [17] - Quote lok rark wrote: see how do you like it when people f@ck with YOU for no reason. Leave the Heavies alone You stupid bro? Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 613	Posted - 2013.11.12 16:35:00 - [18] - Quote Kira Takizawa wrote: Is being in EoN anything special or are you just throwing it around to make yourself feel special? Last time i checked EoN isn't special just a big alliance.. Learn to read, he didnt believe my proir post about EoN, PC and scouts. Dumbass Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 615	Posted - 2013.11.13 22:16:00 - [19] - Quote Kira Takizawa wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Kira Takizawa wrote: Is being in EoN anything special or are you just throwing it around to make yourself feel special? Last time i checked EoN isn't special just a big alliance.. Learn to read, he didnt believe my proir post about EoN, PC and scouts. Dumbass I've read but does it matter? No matter of who you are with you aren't ** and a nobody to me. So you're a ****, thats what im picking up? lol Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 618	Posted - 2013.11.14 01:46:00 - [20] - Quote Kira Takizawa wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Kira Takizawa wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Kira Takizawa wrote: Is being in EoN anything special or are you just throwing it around to make yourself feel special? Last time i checked EoN isn't special just a big alliance.. Learn to read, he didnt believe my proir post about EoN, PC and scouts. Dumbass I've read but does it matter? No matter of who you are with you aren't ** and a nobody to me. So you're a **, thats what im picking up? lol Nah not really but it's sad when you try to prove things to people.. if you are in EoN so what no need to prove it to anyone these are one of the saddest acts from humanity :) Im not sure you're literate. He asked me for proof I was in EoN. I gave him proof. You come in an ** the place up being a moron. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)