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God Hates Lags Red Star. EoN. 288	Posted - 2013.11.11 06:14:00 - [31] - Quote No, the heavy suit is "underpowered" now because it gets a far worse deal with TTK as it is now because HP means less than it ever has before. If AR, SMG and SCR are nerfed though TTK should return back to normal and the suit itself won't need a buff. Doubles ISK
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 4456	Posted - 2013.11.11 06:19:00 - [32] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Then lobby for the nerf of the AR not the buff of the HMG. Scouts being as thin as THEY are dont need heavies doing more damage. Heavies being as heavy as they are dont need more HP (3 - 6 shotgun shots to bring one dont if they register at all) and Just so you know, Nova Knives are better used on assault and logi suits then Scouts. If you buff the heavy any more you're causing the scout to become even more useless and its nearly dead anyways, at the very least heavies have forgeguns to keep them as a playable class alive. you don't know when to quit do you... Your logic is don't buff the HMG because scouts... Honestly... I know scouts need a buff, but that's for scouts to write about. Don't come in here and talk don't buff heavies because scouts will suffer...dafuq did I just read. I swear I hear the dumbest things on this forum. I don't care if the AR gets nerf, THAT'S NOT THE ARGUMENT FOR HEAVIES. Here, I'll tell you what heavies need to do their job: - Less bullet spread on HMGs - If decreasing spread is not an option, increase DMG - If increasing DMG is not an option, increase HP by AT LEAST 50% - If that's not an option, take the class out the game, take scouts out of the game, and let only medium suits play. ( ._.) <('.'<) "There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
Eurydice Itzhak Militaires Sans Jeux 236	Posted - 2013.11.11 07:15:00 - [33] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: I just met a Heavy in the Gallente research lab map. He wrecked everything in his way. Killed 3 blueberries who were firing at him, and he would have almost killed me, as I've slain him with my OMGWTFBBQ Scambler rifle, with 50HP left. Heavies are totally underpowered His name is Jacques Clayton (or very similar to that) He was in my squad. I only remember because i saw you in game for the first time and then you immediately started firing swarms at me. He is an EXCEPTIONAL player. Do not use him as a grounds for evaluation.
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 4457	Posted - 2013.11.11 07:31:00 - [34] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I just met a Heavy in the Gallente research lab map. He wrecked everything in his way. Killed 3 blueberries who were firing at him, and he would have almost killed me, as I've slain him with my OMGWTFBBQ Scambler rifle, with 50HP left. Heavies are totally underpowered His name is Jacques Clayton (or very similar to that) He was in my squad. I only remember because i saw you in game for the first time and then you immediately started firing swarms at me. He is an EXCEPTIONAL player. Do not use him as a grounds for evaluation. lol pub games... even militia heavies can do good given the "competition" sometimes ( ._.) <('.'<) "There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
Cosgar ParagonX 7639	Posted - 2013.11.11 07:38:00 - [35] - Quote Honestly, they need to just revert the HMG back to replication's stats but increase heat build up rate and add a sharpshooter skill. It's supposed to be a heavy weapon and needs to be treated as such. Dust needs a weapon that stops idiots from running head on into everything blindly to encourage more tactics. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 637	Posted - 2013.11.11 07:47:00 - [36] - Quote I think the problem with heavies is that they crap for situation awareness. I run a scout suit and always sneak up on heavies from behind getting pretty easy kills with plasma cannon. I don't see much of a problem with this. I barely ever see heavies use cover, they too often run around solo thinking that they are a mini-Tank. When I think of a heavy I think it was meant to be played as a part of a squad with logis close by repping them. If you run by urself or you are out in the open in a heavy suit, you deserve to die. Disclosure: I've only run A-1 in this build, I dont run heavy as my main.
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 4457	Posted - 2013.11.11 07:51:00 - [37] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: I think the problem with heavies is that they crap for situation awareness. I run a scout suit and always sneak up on heavies from behind getting pretty easy kills with plasma cannon. I don't see much of a problem with this. I barely ever see heavies use cover, they too often run around solo thinking that they are a mini-Tank. When I think of a heavy I think it was meant to be played as a part of a squad with logis close by repping them. If you run by urself or you are out in the open in a heavy suit, you deserve to die. Disclosure: I've only run A-1 in this build, I dont run heavy as my main. You're talking about the typical clueless player. Doesn't matter what class he plays that's how he'll play anyway. ( ._.) <('.'<) "There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 37	Posted - 2013.11.11 08:05:00 - [38] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Then lobby for the nerf of the AR not the buff of the HMG. Scouts being as thin as THEY are dont need heavies doing more damage. Heavies being as heavy as they are dont need more HP (3 - 6 shotgun shots to bring one dont if they register at all) and Just so you know, Nova Knives are better used on assault and logi suits then Scouts. If you buff the heavy any more you're causing the scout to become even more useless and its nearly dead anyways, at the very least heavies have forgeguns to keep them as a playable class alive. .......Since when have I been saying "heavies are UP, and need a buff"? All I'm pointing out is that you're saying stupid things about heavies needing to HTFU about their situation, when the truth is no, they shouldn't HTFU, they should complain, and CCP should fix the problem. Quite frankly, I don't think a raw EHP buff will ever really make heavies awesome and balanced. IMO, I'd say that a damage resistance buff would be far better, but that's an entirely different topic than the discussion at hand. When it comes down to it, right now, before we know what is in 1.7 (besides the RR and CR), I'd rather petition CCP to fix the HMG hitreg problem, and decrease the dispersion of the Assault HMG variant across the board, as well as changing the AssHMG to have an decreased accuracy-spool time. There, we've given heavies a solid bandaid that isn't going to hurt to pull off if we have to in order to implement new heavy weapons in a balanced fashion. That's not so hard to figure out, now is it. Also, scoutbro problems should be brought up by scoutbros. I think it's important for heavybros to go, "hey, scoutbros need some love too", but then the heavybros should refer to threads made by the scoutbros. Further, this thread wasn't about scout problems, it was about you whinging on about how you think that heavies should HTFU because they can just slap an AR on their suit and call it a day. Finally, it's really the general problem with the very low TTK in DUST right now that both heavies and scouts are struggling along right now. As a final note to you, explain in detail and with logic why nova knives should be used on a medium frame suit as a primary weapon choice. God Hates Lags wrote: No, the heavy suit is "underpowered" now because it gets a far worse deal with TTK as it is now because HP means less than it ever has before. If AR, SMG and SCR are nerfed though TTK should return back to normal and the suit itself won't need a buff. I don't think a general AR/SMG/ScR nerf will fix TTK problems. A general EHP buff, on the other, would probably be a much better start. Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: Here, I'll tell you what heavies need to do their job: - Less bullet spread on HMGs - If decreasing spread is not an option, increase DMG - If increasing DMG is not an option, increase HP by AT LEAST 50% - If that's not an option, take the class out the game, take scouts out of the game, and let only medium suits play. I don't think an EHP buff is really going to help much, without making the heavy brokenly powerful. I also think that the HMG should start off with high spread, but very rapidly become very accurate within its optimal range. See above for my thoughts on at least band-aiding the HMG until we learn what more gubbins CCP has in store for DUST. Ludvig Enraga wrote: I think the problem with heavies is that they crap for situation awareness. I run a scout suit and always sneak up on heavies from behind getting pretty easy kills with plasma cannon. I don't see much of a problem with this. I barely ever see heavies use cover, they too often run around solo thinking that they are a mini-Tank. When I think of a heavy I think it was meant to be played as a part of a squad with logis close by repping them. If you run by urself or you are out in the open in a heavy suit, you deserve to die. Disclosure: I've only run A-1 in this build, I dont run heavy as my main. The majority of players, I find, are terminally stupid. It's kind of sad, really. That being said, I think part of your experience is that you run a scout, and are thus stealthier, faster, flimsier, and thus generally required to play smarter not harder right out of the box. A heavy player will probably gravitate because of "HEAVY STRONK, with STRONK HEAVY GUN", and only gradually realize that you've got to actually use your brain nearly, or even just as much, as a scout. Cyrius Li-Moody made a video about NK hitreg in 1.6, but did comment tangentially about the archetype of heavies being generally stupid. I think that archetype is probably a result of the general idea of the heavy- you're a big, strong, tough, clone soldier, who gets even bigger, stronger, and tougher by using a heavy suit, and you're supposed to carry the most destructive weapons in the game. Most players will automatically think they are somewhat invincible, and particularly in the scout vs heavy dynamic, the average heavy will consider a scout to be a light snack to be served before the appetizers and main course of enemy medium/heavy frames and vehicles, respectively. Then suddenly a scout baits a heavy into a REX trap, and ruins that innocence of indestructibility forever. Such is DUST. In any case, the real thing I wanted to bring up to you is that I STRONGLY disagree that it should be nearly or entirely impossible to run solo as a heavy. I run solo pretty much 99% of the time, so it's important that I be able to function on my own and unsupported. I do not think that heavies should be able to do this easily, but I do think it should be possible.
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 609	Posted - 2013.11.11 08:32:00 - [39] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: As a final note to you, explain in detail and with logic why nova knives should be used on a medium frame suit as a primary weapon choice. take Cal logi + nova knives Highs - 3 complex Myofibril 2 shield extenders Lows 2 complex Catalyzers 2 complex regulators Callogi is now faster, has more stamina, can use MELEE better then any of the scout suits, has more EHP and raw HP Gal logi + nova knives highs - 3 complex myfiber Lows - 2 complex Catalyzers 2 complex regulators 1 complex plate Same thing happens, faster, more stamina, melee is better, more EHP and raw HP on and on, this formula can also be used by assaults and logi's of the other two races. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 609	Posted - 2013.11.11 08:34:00 - [40] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: I don't think a general AR/SMG/ScR nerf will fix TTK problems. A general EHP buff, on the other, would probably be a much better start. An EHP buff to heavies would make scouts all but useless against them. Scout would need near instant kill potental alpha damage within 10 meters if EHP goes up. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)

Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 611	Posted - 2013.11.11 08:42:00 - [41] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: I don't think a general AR/SMG/ScR nerf will fix TTK problems. A general EHP buff, on the other, would probably be a much better start. I don't think an EHP buff is really going to help much, without making the heavy brokenly powerful. I also think that the HMG should start off with high spread, but very rapidly become very accurate within its optimal range. See above for my thoughts on at least band-aiding the HMG until we learn what more gubbins CCP has in store for DUST. haha oh wow, almost missed you contridicting yourself in the same post. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 38	Posted - 2013.11.11 19:01:00 - [42] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: take Cal logi + nova knives Highs - 3 complex Myofibril 2 shield extenders Lows 2 complex Catalyzers 2 complex regulators Callogi is now faster, has more stamina, can use MELEE better then any of the scout suits, has more EHP and raw HP Gal logi + nova knives highs - 3 complex myfiber Lows - 2 complex Catalyzers 2 complex regulators 1 complex plate Same thing happens, faster, more stamina, melee is better, more EHP and raw HP on and on, this formula can also be used by assaults and logi's of the other two races. If you had tried to use the Amarr Logi as the example, I might have believed you. As it is, those two fits are the most moronic things I have ever seen in DUST. Also, Myofibril Stimulants do not affect NKs. Ask any NK'er, and they'll easily tell you that you have made a bad NK fit. The least you could have done would be to fit Sidearm Damage mods (which DO affect NKs). Also, sure, the fits you've presented might be passable. But a Scout will still do better since they can carry another weapon in addition to the NKs, and have a smaller hitbox, and be more difficult to scan down. Unless your profile dampening skills are maxed, the cheapest of Scanners will light you up like a Christmas tree. Mossellia Delt wrote: An EHP buff to heavies would make scouts all but useless against them. Scout would need near instant kill potental alpha damage within 10 meters if EHP goes up. Your reading comprehension fail continues to go on. My comments regarding a general, as in, for all classes, EHP buff is in regards to the incredibly low TTK issues that are affecting everybody in the game. Also, you seem to be obsessed with your ability to kill a heavy while using a scout suit. For the record, the average heavy doesn't really act all that intelligently, and is generally easy to bait into a Remote trap. There, you now have 1500 alpha damage, and if that doesn't kill a heavy, a few shotgun blasts (or even a grenade or two) will easily finish them off. Seriously, the maximum EHP a proto heavy can get right now is ~1700-1800 EHP. A STD-level Locus Grenade will easily wipe a heavy off the map after taking a Remote Explosive to the face. For the record, the whole basis of scout vs heavy balance is supposed to be that the scout can outmaneuver the heavy, and is also unable to be seen by the heavy. Heavies are (EWAR wise) big and noisy. Get your scan skills up, and you'll be able to see us coming from miles away, while we'll never know you're there until you stab us in the back. Mossellia Delt wrote: Templar 514 wrote: I don't think a general AR/SMG/ScR nerf will fix TTK problems. A general EHP buff, on the other, would probably be a much better start. I don't think an EHP buff is really going to help much, without making the heavy brokenly powerful. I also think that the HMG should start off with high spread, but very rapidly become very accurate within its optimal range. See above for my thoughts on at least band-aiding the HMG until we learn what more gubbins CCP has in store for DUST. haha oh wow, almost missed you contridicting yourself in the same post. Key things, even bullet pointed to aid your ability to understand the point I am making: 1. The reference to general EHP is in regards to the current issues with incredibly low TTK, since those issues are not limited to the AR/AScR/SMG weapons, but are rather universal. 2. I am speaking of a specific buff to the heavy class's EHP. A raw EHP buff of the heavy would eventually end with heavies having as much health as an HAV. While this is appealing to a degree, it would also be brokenly OP. To recap, just in case your ability to read is still so bad that you understand nothing: I'm not contradicting (protip: there's an "A" in the word "contrAdicting") myself, I'm actually making two different observations, these being: 1. TTK is much too low right now, so a general EHP buff to EVERY SINGLE CLASS in the game, would probably help alleviate some of that problem. I don't think it would fix it, but it would probably help- scouts in particular, since you seem so hung up on scouts not being able to kill heavies. 2. An EHP buff to ONLY the heavy suit would very easily and very quickly become OP, and so a different solution should be sought after.
WAR-MONGER SLAUGHTER Unkn0wn Killers 4	Posted - 2013.11.11 19:23:00 - [43] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Please forumites, please stop bitching about the heavy suit being under powered. The heavy suit is not underpowered, just because the AR is OP and Assault / Logi suits need to be fixed does not mean the heavy suit itself is under powered. The HMG being crap does not making the heavy suit underpowered unlike what I see people posting about. The HMG is not the heavy suit. Please remember this. The suit is not the problem .. we all know it has the most hp .. I have mine up to 1799 hp .. the problem is that hmg ... yall cry about the forge over & over ... so they nerfed it & halved the splash damage ... fine .. but all we have left is that short range hmg .. pulling less than 20 hp damage ( without damage mods ) its not enough. I know I can use ARs .. but that's not what I became a heavy for .. I want heavy weapons .. n we don't have any .. imo they shouldn't have touched the forge gun until they introduced 1 or more new heavy weapons ... but its done.. so now we either want more weapons ASAP .. or a range or damage buff ... like NOW .. why pick the slowest character in the game .. to use the same weapons a faster character can use... we don't want that .. we want heavy weapons ... that need a heavy suit in order to wield ... until then . we will keep requesting our fair share ! https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=120183&find=unread *WAR-MONGER SLAUGHTER ... THE GOD HEAVY*
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1121	Posted - 2013.11.11 20:06:00 - [44] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Then lobby for the nerf of the AR not the buff of the HMG. Man, if you think the AR is a problem just wait until the rail rifle and combat rifle are in game... the AR is looking like it has the short end of the stick. As for the Heavy suit itself, I think most of the serious users agree it's fine. In fact, the reaction of most dedicated heavies to the HP buff was, "GÇª wut? That's not what we asked for." All the class needs to be balanced is: 1) A -5% dispersion/level Sharpshooter skill for HMG, same thing that AR and SMG have already had since Uprising 1.0. 2) Content. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 611	Posted - 2013.11.11 20:22:00 - [45] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: If you had tried to use the Amarr Logi as the example, I might have believed you. As it is, those two fits are the most moronic things I have ever seen in DUST. Also, Myofibril Stimulants do not affect NKs. Ask any NK'er, and they'll easily tell you that you have made a bad NK fit. The least you could have done would be to fit Sidearm Damage mods (which DO affect NKs). Also, sure, the fits you've presented might be passable. But a Scout will still do better since they can carry another weapon in addition to the NKs, and have a smaller hitbox, and be more difficult to scan down. Unless your profile dampening skills are maxed, the cheapest of Scanners will light you up like a Christmas tree. You obviously dont understand nova knives, first nova knives increase base melee damage when using MELEE not the strike or charged strike. Second, Iv seen logi's and assaults using the knives to better effect then any scout because they can take some damage before instantly dying. Maybe you should see me play when im getting 20+ kills in an ambush with nova knives. Maybe you should talk to other scouts who I play with and you'll get that im in the upper ranks of scout badassery. Guess what, the whole scan issue is bullshit, maybe read into it a bit. Medium frames have the same base scan radius as light suits. Templar 514 wrote: Your reading comprehension fail continues to go on. My comments regarding a general, as in, for all classes, EHP buff is in regards to the incredibly low TTK issues that are affecting everybody in the game. Also, you seem to be obsessed with your ability to kill a heavy while using a scout suit. For the record, the average heavy doesn't really act all that intelligently, and is generally easy to bait into a Remote trap. There, you now have 1500 alpha damage, and if that doesn't kill a heavy, a few shotgun blasts (or even a grenade or two) will easily finish them off. Seriously, the maximum EHP a proto heavy can get right now is ~1700-1800 EHP. A STD-level Locus Grenade will easily wipe a heavy off the map after taking a Remote Explosive to the face. For the record, the whole basis of scout vs heavy balance is supposed to be that the scout can outmaneuver the heavy, and is also unable to be seen by the heavy. Heavies are (EWAR wise) big and noisy. Get your scan skills up, and you'll be able to see us coming from miles away, while we'll never know you're there until you stab us in the back. So lets force scouts to use specific equipment or weapons. Maybe if we had more then one equipment slot we could fit REs, but I for one use hives, and I know many use uplinks or scanners. Dont shoe horn us into REs. As for the weapons not all scouts use shotguns, we use all manner of weapons. But guess what, no matter what we use, Assaults and logis use them better. And the last part "the whole basis of scout vs heavy balance is supposed to be that the scout can outmaneuver the heavy" IS kinda imposible since heavies can turn as fast as scouts. Which doesnt allow us to run around them without being instant killed. Play a scout, even a mlt one, for a few games. Now imagine that but it costs you 150k isk a suit. It dies to 0.5 of a second of incoming fire, grenades instant kill no matter what, and we cant make any mistake or its instantly fatal. WE CANT EVEN SURVIVE A SMALL FALL. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 4471	Posted - 2013.11.11 20:29:00 - [46] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: And the last part "the whole basis of scout vs heavy balance is supposed to be that the scout can outmaneuver the heavy" IS kinda imposible since heavies can turn as fast as scouts. Which doesnt allow us to run around them without being instant killed. Play a scout, even a mlt one, for a few games. Now imagine that but it costs you 150k isk a suit. It dies to 0.5 of a second of incoming fire, grenades instant kill no matter what, and we cant make any mistake or its instantly fatal. WE CANT EVEN SURVIVE A SMALL FALL. your arguments for scouts is starting to get obnoxious now. "On the matter of the heavy suit" <-- title of the thread. Shut up about balancing heavy suits to cater to scout suits. I don't give a **** what scout suits get tbh, all people want is the HMG buffed. Go cry in a thread about scouts. ( ._.) <('.'<) "There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 611	Posted - 2013.11.11 20:32:00 - [47] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: And the last part "the whole basis of scout vs heavy balance is supposed to be that the scout can outmaneuver the heavy" IS kinda imposible since heavies can turn as fast as scouts. Which doesnt allow us to run around them without being instant killed. Play a scout, even a mlt one, for a few games. Now imagine that but it costs you 150k isk a suit. It dies to 0.5 of a second of incoming fire, grenades instant kill no matter what, and we cant make any mistake or its instantly fatal. WE CANT EVEN SURVIVE A SMALL FALL. your arguments for scouts is starting to get obnoxious now. "On the matter of the heavy suit" <-- title of the thread. Shut up about balancing heavy suits to cater to scout suits. I don't give a **** what scout suits get tbh, all people want is the HMG buffed. Go cry in a thread about scouts. Or you could not be in MY thread. HMG is not the heavy, if you dumbasses could get that through your large thick skull you might understand that. At least heavies seem to have a place in PC but you never see two or three scouts per team. You never see people looking for scouts in EoN PC, they wont even accept scouts for PC battles last I checked. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 4471	Posted - 2013.11.11 20:46:00 - [48] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: And the last part "the whole basis of scout vs heavy balance is supposed to be that the scout can outmaneuver the heavy" IS kinda imposible since heavies can turn as fast as scouts. Which doesnt allow us to run around them without being instant killed. Play a scout, even a mlt one, for a few games. Now imagine that but it costs you 150k isk a suit. It dies to 0.5 of a second of incoming fire, grenades instant kill no matter what, and we cant make any mistake or its instantly fatal. WE CANT EVEN SURVIVE A SMALL FALL. your arguments for scouts is starting to get obnoxious now. "On the matter of the heavy suit" <-- title of the thread. Shut up about balancing heavy suits to cater to scout suits. I don't give a ** what scout suits get tbh, all people want is the HMG buffed. Go cry in a thread about scouts. Or you could not be in MY thread. HMG is not the heavy, if you dumbasses could get that through your large thick skull you might understand that. At least heavies seem to have a place in PC but you never see two or three scouts per team. You never see people looking for scouts in EoN PC, they wont even accept scouts for PC battles last I checked. HMG is not heavy? What is it, a scout?... Heavies have no place in PC... other than rooftop campers with FGs. If you see a heavy it's because they can't get another Assault player, OR you put 2-4 heavies in a room and tell them defend that. I've seen scouts do hit and run tactics quite effectively in PC games... don't know what you talking about. You bring scout suits vs heavies like that matters somehow... the OP was the dumbest ever, and the thread continues to be a joke. You're the dumbass that don't get people don't care about the suit, people have been asking to BUFF THE HMG NOT THE SUIT.** So continue pretending that people are asking for a suit buff. ( ._.) <('.'<) "There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
WAR-MONGER SLAUGHTER Unkn0wn Killers 7	Posted - 2013.11.12 01:24:00 - [49] - Quote You're the dumbass that don't get people don't care about the suit, people have been asking to [u wrote: BUFF THE HMG NOT THE SUIT. [/u] So continue pretending that people are asking for a suit buff. truth!!!!! *WAR-MONGER SLAUGHTER ... THE GOD HEAVY*
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2013.11.12 02:38:00 - [50] - Quote The OP is obviously clueless. Allow me to demonstrate: Mossellia Delt wrote: You obviously dont understand nova knives, first nova knives increase base melee damage when using MELEE not the strike or charged strike. ..........You have no idea how NKs work. CCP's tagging system classifies them as a sidearm weapon, which is why they go into a sidearm slot and are found in the sidearm section of the marketplace. If they actually did just buff your melee damage, then answer the following question: Why does the Minmatar Scout have a bonus to both melee and NK damage? Mossellia Delt wrote: Second, Iv seen logi's and assaults using the knives to better effect then any scout because they can take some damage before instantly dying. This is an arguably valid point at present, but this is more because scout suits are UP. Scout problems are not the topic of this thread, as the title is "On the matter of the heavy suit". As such, it's supposed to discuss problems that heavies are having. If you want to discuss scout problems, then make a separate thread about it, because people are coming to this thread to talk about HEAVY problems, not SCOUT problems. Mossellia Delt wrote: Maybe you should see me play when im getting 20+ kills in an ambush with nova knives. I find any quoted performance for Ambush matches to automatically be suspect. In fact, I find quoted kill performance for any game mode to automatically be suspect. Can you provide third-party verifiable sources that indicate that 60-70%+ of all Ambush matches that you use NKs, and only NKs, in, you go 20+ kills? Mossellia Delt wrote: Maybe you should talk to other scouts who I play with and you'll get that im in the upper ranks of scout badassery. I checked the Scout Registry, and you're not on it, so obviously you are not actually a scout. And I checked for your alts names as well, so don't bother pulling that card. Of course, you can provide the names of some of the scouts who play with you and I can follow up on this claim of yours. But I doubt that you'll do that. Mossellia Delt wrote: Guess what, the whole scan issue is bullshit, maybe read into it a bit. Medium frames have the same base scan radius as light suits. You are obviously an idiot, because you would know this is false as of Uprising 1.6. Also, Light frames/Scouts have a reduced scan profile and better scan precision than everybody else by default. Maybe you should pay more attention to passive scanner mechanics.

Kira Takizawa Ethereal Eden 11	Posted - 2013.11.12 02:40:00 - [51] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Templar 514 wrote: TL;DR (because I know you didn't since you are obviously a heavy hater who knows nothing about heavies), the problem isn't the suit, it's that the defining feature of the heavy class, that being heavy weapons, are being outmoded by light-class weapons that are better put to use on medium frame suits. You know nothing of me, as someone who did play Heavy during Chromo as well ( Moselder was heavy, Medrean - Logi and this character a scout / pilot) I know the heavy roll and Im saving my SP currently to spec into minmatar heavies once they are released. And the limit on choices of heavy weapons maybe be a problem but my entire thread is about the suit itself not being underpowered. You want to feel a REAL underpowered suit? Spec into scouts which can run you 180k isk with less then 300 HP. Then you can complain. The suit itself isn't underpowered it's the players skills that are below the stardard to use it correctly..
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 613	Posted - 2013.11.12 02:45:00 - [52] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: I checked the Scout Registry, and you're not on it, so obviously you are not actually a scout. And I checked for your alts names as well, so don't bother pulling that card. You cant read then 9126 - Mossellia Delt (201, 0) on the scout registory. Go ask shotty how well I use the scout since I play with him oftan. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2013.11.12 02:56:00 - [53] - Quote Continued due to quote volume. Mossellia Delt wrote: So lets force scouts to use specific equipment or weapons. Maybe if we had more then one equipment slot we could fit REs, but I for one use hives, and I know many use uplinks or scanners. Dont shoe horn us into REs. There's no reason that you cannot swap suits mid-battle. There's also no reason that you can't fit to counter a specific situation. In fact, fitting to counter specific threats is kind of a thing in DUST. You fit AV weapons to kill vehicles, you fit anti-infantry weapons to kill infantry. MDs for area denial and turning chokepoints into killboxes, Sniper Rifles to kill people from halfway across the map, Shotguns for CQC dominance, you get the idea. Mossellia Delt wrote: As for the weapons not all scouts use shotguns, we use all manner of weapons. But guess what, no matter what we use, Assaults and logis use them better. There's nothing wrong with Scouts using any weapon they want to. I do want to note that many Scouts like to carry grenades on one or two of their fits, so it's perfectly reasonable to think that a scout player might decide, "hmm, I want to be able to kill heavies, well, if I fit Remotes and some Locus Grenades, then I can bait them into a trap with my soft and squishy self, since heavies generally take the bait". Also, any problems with medium frame suits using light weapons better than a light suit can is something to be brought up in a thread that's about Scouts. There's a "Create New Topic" button on the forums, use it. Mossellia Delt wrote: And the last part "the whole basis of scout vs heavy balance is supposed to be that the scout can outmaneuver the heavy" IS kinda imposible since heavies can turn as fast as scouts. Which doesnt allow us to run around them without being instant killed. I'm not saying outmaneuver=run rings around a heavy. I'm saying outmaneuver=sneak up behind a heavy. Look, most players that play scout know that they are flimsy and fast and sneaky, and so they play to their strengths and minimize their weaknesses as best they can, since they, like heavies, have drastic differences between the two aspects. Unlike medium frames, which are more generalized and (supposed to) have lesser strengths and lesser weaknesses, light and heavy suits are much more specialized. So you build around those limitations, while taking advantage of the strengths that you gain. Mossellia Delt wrote: Play a scout, even a mlt one, for a few games. Now imagine that but it costs you 150k isk a suit. It dies to 0.5 of a second of incoming fire, grenades instant kill no matter what, and we cant make any mistake or its instantly fatal. WE CANT EVEN SURVIVE A SMALL FALL. I have both a Dragonfly and a Dren Scout BPO. I have played with scout fits to what degree I can, since there isn't an Amarr Scout yet. First off, there's no reason to run proto all the time if you die so rapidly. Secondly, TTK is so low right now that that sort of experience is the norm. Third, I have survived dozens of small falls in a Scout suit. Stop whining about that. Finally, you knew that Scouts were fragile and that mistakes would generally see you off to a new clone, so stop whining when you are getting exactly what you signed up for. If I ran Scout more often, I wouldn't mind dying if I screwed up, since it'd be my own fault. Quite frankly, even a heavy will die if he screws up, since he's too slow to try and run away, and two or three players will whittle him down to nothing, even in a protoheavy suit. Mossellia Delt wrote: You cant read then 9126 - Mossellia Delt (201, 0) on the scout registory. Go ask shotty how well I use the scout since I play with him oftan. There's a lot of entries, and I glanced through. Also, I find that I don't really care what you have to say about NKs. If Maken Tosch says stuff about them, I listen- he has easily established his credibility as a dedicated NK'er. In fact, I think I've even been stabbed in the face a couple times by him, so I do have some first-hand experience of dying on his blades. OTOH, you have established no verifiable evidence of your credibility on, well, any of the issues your bringing up. Further, you keep distracting the purpose of the thread with whinging about "oh, if you buff heavies then scouts will be powerless against them!" Just shut up about it already! You've clearly established that you think scouts are in a bad place right now, so go make a new thread about that to get more discussion rolling so CCP can get things done sooner.
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:03:00 - [54] - Quote More quote volume! Mossellia Delt wrote: You never see people looking for scouts in EoN PC, they wont even accept scouts for PC battles last I checked. Two things: 1. You're not in EoN. Why do you care? 2. PC dorks want teams of Assault dudes to murder everything. They don't care about heavies unless they have FGs, and even then it's just so they can tower camp. Proof here: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: Heavies have no place in PC... other than rooftop campers with FGs. If you see a heavy it's because they can't get another Assault player, OR you put 2-4 heavies in a room and tell them defend that. This guy is in EoN. and is a self-proclaimed heavy. However, I assume if someone decided to find some other EoN. dorks who were also in Lance's corp, they would confirm that Lance is a protoheavybro, and no longer uses it except for specific situations called for by the alliance/corp during PC battles, or pub matches. And while I hate agreeing with PC corps about anything, it is true that judging performance based on pub matches is dumb. At least start in the FW arenas, where player groups tend to be much more encouraged to organize themselves.
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 613	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:04:00 - [55] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: so stop whining when you are getting exactly what you signed up for. I started scouts in chromo and spec straight into them in uprising, I didnt sign up for being constantly nerfed into oblivion. I remember when we could, you know, strafe, before AR and heavies bitched about us being OP because of it. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
lok rark StealthSquad 10	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:04:00 - [56] - Quote Mossellia you dont understand because you pay nothing for your scout suits. If you HAD SP'ed into Heavy you know A/1 sentinel and Basic cost ALOT more. So much more with all the mods... but now we get ripped up like we are scouts and have to BUY as many suits as you. Its impossible to win that much a match anymore. Its also impossible to run to cover at the speed a heavy runs unlike a scout. I could see why you might think heavy was O.K now ITS BECAUSE YOU RUN ALL CHEAP MILLITA BLUEPRINTS.
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 613	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:05:00 - [57] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: More quote volume! Mossellia Delt wrote: You never see people looking for scouts in EoN PC, they wont even accept scouts for PC battles last I checked. Two things: 1. You're not in EoN. Why do you care? 2. PC dorks want teams of Assault dudes to murder everything. They don't care about heavies unless they have FGs, and even then it's just so they can tower camp. Proof here: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: Heavies have no place in PC... other than rooftop campers with FGs. If you see a heavy it's because they can't get another Assault player, OR you put 2-4 heavies in a room and tell them defend that. This guy is in EoN. and is a self-proclaimed heavy. However, I assume if someone decided to find some other EoN. dorks who were also in Lance's corp, they would confirm that Lance is a protoheavybro, and no longer uses it except for specific situations called for by the alliance/corp during PC battles, or pub matches. And while I hate agreeing with PC corps about anything, it is true that judging performance based on pub matches is dumb. At least start in the FW arenas, where player groups tend to be much more encouraged to organize themselves. Once again, you have no idea who I am, my alts have been in Not Guilty, Pure Innocence and The Generals. So yes, iv been in EoN. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 613	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:06:00 - [58] - Quote lok rark wrote: Mossellia you dont understand because you pay nothing for your scout suits. If you HAD SP'ed into Heavy you know A/1 sentinel and Basic cost ALOT more. So much more with all the mods... but now we get ripped up like we are scouts and have to BUY as many suits as you. Its impossible to win that much a match anymore. Its also impossible to run to cover at the speed a heavy runs unlike a scout. I could see why you might think heavy was O.K now ITS BECAUSE YOU RUN ALL CHEAP MILLITA BLUEPRINTS. I run prototype mimatar scout suits you ****, and maybe you should check the market prices, the scotu suit and sentinal are the same price. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 878	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:07:00 - [59] - Quote Guys don't worry about Mossellia She's just got a really bad case of a illness called logic. It usually disappears after 48 hours. There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
lok rark StealthSquad 10	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:08:00 - [60] - Quote see how do you like it when people f@ck with YOU for no reason. Leave the Heavies alone



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