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Xerics Red Star. EoN. 18	Posted - 2013.11.01 00:49:00 - [1] - Quote Back when flaylock pistols first came out everyone used them. They were the go to weapon. Some people even ran suits with dual flaylocks. Now there is a new tactic of choice. Rooftop forgeguns. They need to go. rooftops period need to go. no roof snipers, no roof forge guns, no roof lasers. the roofs of every map have become worse then the old manus peak map with its giant mountain. At least with the mountain you could get up there. You cant get up on the towers to take them down because the only way to get up there is via dropship and with rooftop forgers you aren't getting anywhere close to them. Even the "supposedly" best corps in the game cant win without them (I'm looking at you Ancient Exiles). There are two ways to fix this. The first is to remove the towers all together. This would make all unit fight on ground level or get up in the mountain areas where someone could still technically chase you down on foot. The other option is to change forge guns. There are also 2 ways to fix forge guns. The first is to remove the splash damage entirely. The other is to make it like the swarm launcher. Only effective against vehicles. Change it completely to where it is a charged shot that scrambles electronics making it 100% ineffective against infantry. The forge gun was never meant to be an anti infantry weapon, just like the flaylock was never meant to replace your main weapon.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1779	Posted - 2013.11.01 00:58:00 - [2] - Quote I agree with a lot of that. We were inaccurately accused by your corp of rooftop camping. We hate it, I mean you have to do it now or you might as well not be in PC at all. It seems like the cheapest tactic in Dust history. I've seen a corp I won't mention put a LLAV up there that shield and armor reps making the FGer nearly invincible. Not to mention despite us using an ADS with a MCRU they were already on the roof with remotes set up waiting. When our ADS landed, they popped it with the remotes.
Jacques Cayton II Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 54	Posted - 2013.11.01 00:58:00 - [3] - Quote Stop crying if you get forged get a sniper rifle done. We heavies have 2 weapons leave us alone.
Xerics Red Star. EoN. 18	Posted - 2013.11.01 01:07:00 - [4] - Quote Jacques Cayton II wrote: Stop crying if you get forged get a sniper rifle done. We heavies have 2 weapons leave us alone. Forge guns are one shot direct or 2 shots with splash damage. Snipers can't even get a heavy dead in 2 head shots, not to mention after the first shot they can retreat back 5 feet casue you are forced to shoot up at them making them have cover you cant remove. I guerss another way to fix those towers would be make them destructible objects that can collapse on people and kill them. This gives the heavies what they want I guess and lets us remove those pesky rooftops if we are committed enough.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1779	Posted - 2013.11.01 01:10:00 - [5] - Quote Jacques Cayton II wrote: Stop crying if you get forged get a sniper rifle done. We heavies have 2 weapons leave us alone. Pretty sure you aren't in PC. There's a difference. I don't care if people get the high ground in a pub.
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1725	Posted - 2013.11.01 01:15:00 - [6] - Quote Hilarious that people talk about there's no honor in being a mercenary But wants honorable war tactics to be used instead of cheap ones.
Thor McStrut Reckoners 302	Posted - 2013.11.01 01:16:00 - [7] - Quote Taking the high ground is a very viable combat strategy. Currently there are no sustainable counters to the FG. Maybe the introduction of bombers will change that?
Xerics Red Star. EoN. 18	Posted - 2013.11.01 01:17:00 - [8] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Hilarious that people talk about there's no honor in being a mercenary But wants honorable war tactics to be used instead of cheap ones. lol this is big boy talk. come back when you have experienced PC and having 4 forge guns rain down hell on you, and there is nothing you can do to remove them as there are some towers in this game that orbitals don't hit the tops of.
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1725	Posted - 2013.11.01 01:22:00 - [9] - Quote Xerics wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Hilarious that people talk about there's no honor in being a mercenary But wants honorable war tactics to be used instead of cheap ones. lol this is big boy talk. come back when you have experienced PC and having 4 forge guns rain down hell on you, and there is nothing you can do to remove them as there are some towers in this game that orbitals don't hit the tops of. It's not big boy talk brainchild, its an observation of the majority thought that I found ironic to talk about. So if you would kindly just stop thinking about Xerics world for a bit and toughen your resolve instead of knee jerking like you failed the cheerleader try outs. And for the record, I have experienced PC before. Michael Arck wrote: Hilarious that people talk about there's no honor in being a mercenary But wants honorable war tactics to be used instead of cheap ones. ^That's just a good post right there.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 711	Posted - 2013.11.01 01:23:00 - [10] - Quote How exactly do you just get rid of roofs? No dropships, ladders or stairs? You are asking for a bit (a lot) too much. Also, it is fine when a Laser Rifle user goes on a roof. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Burner of faces. The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.

Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 945	Posted - 2013.11.01 01:25:00 - [11] - Quote Xerics wrote: The forge gun was never meant to be an anti infantry weapon, just like the flaylock was never meant to replace your main weapon. Sorry, but you have absolutely nothing to support this position. The Forge Gun has always had the same anti-everything ability, even with numerous tweaks and numerous chances to tweak by CCP. It very clearly is meant to be what it is. I agree it should only be a skillshot anti-infantry weapon, however. The nerf coming in 1.6 is a good change, and we'll see if it needs further nerfing. And I agree that the biggest problem is rooftops with limited access. On maps where there are multiple ways to get to the roof, Forge Guns can't control the whole field, and they tend to get shot up and dislodged. The answer isn't sexy, but dropship-only-accessible rooftops need fences around the edges to limit sniping and forging. There should be no part of any map where there is only one way to get up there. It's too defensible, and it's bad game design. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 0 (900/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
Xerics Red Star. EoN. 18	Posted - 2013.11.01 01:26:00 - [12] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: How exactly do you just get rid of roofs? No dropships, ladders or stairs? You are asking for a bit (a lot) too much. Also, it is fine when a Laser Rifle user goes on a roof. You get rid of roofs the same way all other games do. Make a zone ceiling that prevents the drop ship from getting high enough to drop people on a roof. either that or make the roofs so ungodly high up that a forge gun shot cant reach the ground level before fizzling out. It really a simple fix to add a ceiling to the zones.
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Cult of War 816	Posted - 2013.11.01 01:31:00 - [13] - Quote In what world do you live in where rooftop forge gunners are considered "New" they have been around for good amount of time now. For the Empire! Member of ASS: Amarr Secret Service.
Powerh8er Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men. 231	Posted - 2013.11.01 01:33:00 - [14] - Quote Maybe if the HMG wasnt so useless, heavies wouldnt use the forgegun as much against infantry.
Patrick57 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 1178	Posted - 2013.11.01 01:36:00 - [15] - Quote Getting rid of rooftops entirely would make a lot of the matches pretty stale. Having to dodge FG fire is pretty fun IMO. You're like, "Oh **! A FG!" Then you start hopping around like a blind monkey. It's just another part of the risk/reward thing CCP has made. But I do agree, there should be other ways to the top of a tower. Sniper don't do ** to good Forge Gunners (unless it's a Thale's) so that's no use. As a secondary Forge Gunner myself, I sometimes even get shot at by 3-4 snipers all at once There should also be more incentives to use a Breach FG against Vehicles vs an Assault FG against Vehicles. Maybe reduced damage with an increased blast radius? (Also, reduce the splash damage for that idea...) :D
Xerics Red Star. EoN. 18	Posted - 2013.11.01 01:36:00 - [16] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: In what world do you live in where rooftop forge gunners are considered "New" they have been around for good amount of time now. Yeah they have been around but they have very recently become the staple. The game shouldnt be about 1 gun taking care of all your problems. this eliminates teamwork all together becasue you now just need 1 guy to watch a point that cant be killed.
Xerics Red Star. EoN. 18	Posted - 2013.11.01 01:38:00 - [17] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Getting rid of rooftops entirely would make a lot of the matches pretty stale. Having to dodge FG fire is pretty fun IMO. You're like, "Oh **! A FG!" Then you start hopping around like a blind monkey. It's just another part of the risk/reward thing CCP has made. But I do agree, there should be other ways to the top of a tower. Sniper don't do ** to good Forge Gunners (unless it's a Thale's) so that's no use. As a secondary Forge Gunner myself, I sometimes even get shot at by 3-4 snipers all at once There should also be more incentives to use a Breach FG against Vehicles vs an Assault FG against Vehicles. Maybe reduced damage with an increased blast radius? (Also, reduce the splash damage for that idea...) lol having 4 proto assault forge guns shooting you from a tower you dont get time to start jumping around before you pop.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 711	Posted - 2013.11.01 01:54:00 - [18] - Quote Xerics wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: How exactly do you just get rid of roofs? No dropships, ladders or stairs? You are asking for a bit (a lot) too much. Also, it is fine when a Laser Rifle user goes on a roof. You get rid of roofs the same way all other games do. Make a zone ceiling that prevents the drop ship from getting high enough to drop people on a roof. either that or make the roofs so ungodly high up that a forge gun shot cant reach the ground level before fizzling out. It really a simple fix to add a ceiling to the zones. Ha. No. We had low flight ceilings, nobody liked them. I have a better solution, add ladders to the tall towers. You want to play a game where you can't go on a roof at all because its "not fair", COD Ghosts should be out pretty soon. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Burner of faces. The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
Xerics Red Star. EoN. 18	Posted - 2013.11.01 01:59:00 - [19] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Xerics wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: How exactly do you just get rid of roofs? No dropships, ladders or stairs? You are asking for a bit (a lot) too much. Also, it is fine when a Laser Rifle user goes on a roof. You get rid of roofs the same way all other games do. Make a zone ceiling that prevents the drop ship from getting high enough to drop people on a roof. either that or make the roofs so ungodly high up that a forge gun shot cant reach the ground level before fizzling out. It really a simple fix to add a ceiling to the zones. Ha. No. We had low flight ceilings, nobody liked them. I have a better solution, add ladders to the tall towers. You want to play a game where you can't go on a roof at all because its "not fair", COD Ghosts should be out pretty soon. lol COD is a game where all you have is one shots. Thats a terrible game and im surprised it has gone on as long as it has with its stale features, boring colors and samey game play.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 945	Posted - 2013.11.01 02:34:00 - [20] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: I have a better solution, add ladders to the tall towers. I can tell you, as an asshat forge gunner, that won't work. It's really easy to watch one ladder to cover your rear, especially if there's only one and it takes a while to climb up. The ladders on Skim Junction work, but when you get the Manus Peak map with a very tall building with a ladder, that one is incredibly easy to cover. They need fences. Only reasonably accessible and low roofs should be part of the play space. If you take the skyscrapers on the side out of the equation, Skim Junction is great. The Gallente Research Facility is near perfect. Biomass and Communications have problem areas, and Orbital Artillery actually needs some fences removed... ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 0 (900/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù

crazy space 1 Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 1957	Posted - 2013.11.01 02:38:00 - [21] - Quote They are getting a huge nerf to splash range, but there have been rooftop forge gun sniping since the 2nd build I hope it stays.
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 133	Posted - 2013.11.01 03:14:00 - [22] - Quote Xerics wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Hilarious that people talk about there's no honor in being a mercenary But wants honorable war tactics to be used instead of cheap ones. lol this is big boy talk. come back when you have experienced PC and having 4 forge guns rain down hell on you, and there is nothing you can do to remove them as there are some towers in this game that orbitals don't hit the tops of. Suck it up baby, suck.... It....... Up! Get rid of towers??? Omg what is wrong with you people??? Seriously? If you make this game any flatter it might as well be a sideways scrolling shooter.
TcuBe3 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 197	Posted - 2013.11.01 03:17:00 - [23] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I agree with a lot of that. We were inaccurately accused by your corp of rooftop camping. We hate it, I mean you have to do it now or you might as well not be in PC at all. It seems like the cheapest tactic in Dust history. I've seen a corp I won't mention put a LLAV up there that shield and armor reps making the FGer nearly invincible. Not to mention despite us using an ADS with a MCRU they were already on the roof with remotes set up waiting. When our ADS landed, they popped it with the remotes. I saw the same tactic used in Afghanistan, I'm not even joking bro... They almost got a UH 60 on the LZ with remote set. Mabye they are secretly working with the Taliban
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 134	Posted - 2013.11.01 03:28:00 - [24] - Quote Just another average thread about nerfing something so you don't die by it. War isn't fair! PC rewards people who are organised. If the other teams organisation allows them to get control of a vantage point then maybe your team needs to get better? A heavy on the roof with a forge gun.. Oh my!!!!
Defy Gravity Unreal-MoFos 128	Posted - 2013.11.01 03:32:00 - [25] - Quote Xerics wrote: Back when flaylock pistols first came out everyone used them. They were the go to weapon. Some people even ran suits with dual flaylocks. Now there is a new tactic of choice. Rooftop forgeguns. They need to go. rooftops period need to go. no roof snipers, no roof forge guns, no roof lasers. the roofs of every map have become worse then the old manus peak map with its giant mountain. At least with the mountain you could get up there. You cant get up on the towers to take them down because the only way to get up there is via dropship and with rooftop forgers you aren't getting anywhere close to them. Even the "supposedly" best corps in the game cant win without them (I'm looking at you Ancient Exiles). There are two ways to fix this. The first is to remove the towers all together. This would make all unit fight on ground level or get up in the mountain areas where someone could still technically chase you down on foot. The other option is to change forge guns. There are also 2 ways to fix forge guns. The first is to remove the splash damage entirely. The other is to make it like the swarm launcher. Only effective against vehicles. Change it completely to where it is a charged shot that scrambles electronics making it 100% ineffective against infantry. The forge gun was never meant to be an anti infantry weapon, just like the flaylock was never meant to replace your main weapon. But... Why.... Would... You point fingers at AE when every heavy in EoN forge gun Snipes??? But I agree with forge guns being anoying.... To lose that proto suit to total BS thats understandable ( Derp Explosives ) GÇ£War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.GÇ¥ GÇò George Orwell
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 799	Posted - 2013.11.01 03:33:00 - [26] - Quote i'm sorry, but... didn't EoN. abuse that tactic to no end? sorry about your luck. get some eve support.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1754	Posted - 2013.11.01 03:56:00 - [27] - Quote Let them get up there, just give us a way to get the bastards down. (Artillery, hint, hint) Sinboto - The True Blood Minja. Forum Warrior level 1
Xerics Red Star. EoN. 21	Posted - 2013.11.01 04:02:00 - [28] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: Just another average thread about nerfing something so you don't die by it. War isn't fair! PC rewards people who are organised. If the other teams organisation allows them to get control of a vantage point then maybe your team needs to get better? A heavy on the roof with a forge gun.. Oh my!!!! lol 1 forge is manageable. 4 forges is not. You go against Ancient exiles with their 4 proto forges on the roof and you'll go negative,i guarantee it
Xerics Red Star. EoN. 21	Posted - 2013.11.01 04:06:00 - [29] - Quote I did figure out a new equipment that could be useful against such BS tactics. Drone equipment. Drone is launched from the suit where you take control of it. then you fly it using fighter jet controls, not the ******** dropship controls, and it can shoot missiles. Standard has 1 missile, advanced has 2 an proto has 3. missiles do all the same damage from level to level but they are more accurate then the turret missiles and hit like grenades with a splash radius similar to core locus grenades. They are also as small as infantry making them hard to hit with forges. The drawback would be that you lose control of your dropsuit so if someone sneaks up on you then you are going to lose control of the drone
Vitharr Foebane Blood Money Mercenaries 169	Posted - 2013.11.01 04:11:00 - [30] - Quote Xerics wrote: I did figure out a new equipment that could be useful against such BS tactics. Drone equipment. Drone is launched from the suit where you take control of it. then you fly it using fighter jet controls, not the ******** dropship controls, and it can shoot missiles. Standard has 1 missile, advanced has 2 an proto has 3. missiles do all the same damage from level to level but they are more accurate then the turret missiles and hit like grenades with a splash radius similar to core locus grenades. They are also as small as infantry making them hard to hit with forges. The drawback would be that you lose control of your dropsuit so if someone sneaks up on you then you are going to lose control of the drone Let's get the full set of racial suits and weapons cough heavy lasers cough first. After that sure expand equipment and such. Dedicated fattie in need of new heavy content.

Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1165	Posted - 2013.11.01 04:33:00 - [31] - Quote I believe the forge gun needs to stay as what it is: an anti-material weapon. It'll be interesting to see what difference the splash radius change makes. If that isn't enough the most responsible suggestion i've seen so far is to make the forge splash pure EM damage, so it effects shields only. Direct hits would stay the same. This would go a long way towards balancing the forge gun without having to nerf it in its primary role. It's got nice plausibility/immersion going for it too.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 946	Posted - 2013.11.01 04:39:00 - [32] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: If that isn't enough the most responsible suggestion i've seen so far is to make the forge splash pure EM damage I'll admit... that's kind of a cool idea. I still don't think single-access roofs are balanced in any way, however. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 0 (900/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
Vitharr Foebane Blood Money Mercenaries 169	Posted - 2013.11.01 04:49:00 - [33] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: I believe the forge gun needs to stay as what it is: an anti-material weapon. It'll be interesting to see what difference the splash radius change makes. If that isn't enough the most responsible suggestion i've seen so far is to make the forge splash pure EM damage, so it effects shields only. Direct hits would stay the same. This would go a long way towards balancing the forge gun without having to nerf it in its primary role. It's got nice plausibility/immersion going for it too. How? FG shoots a metal slug at 7km/sec. That is gonna affect more than shields I assure you. Dedicated fattie in need of new heavy content.
Xerics Red Star. EoN. 26	Posted - 2013.11.01 05:04:00 - [34] - Quote they could also give us a jet pack suit to assault up there as well. a single ladder is easy to defend but when a guy could come from any side at anytime is where you need to watch it.
M McManus Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 189	Posted - 2013.11.01 05:19:00 - [35] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Xerics wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Hilarious that people talk about there's no honor in being a mercenary But wants honorable war tactics to be used instead of cheap ones. lol this is big boy talk. come back when you have experienced PC and hav 4 forge guns rain down hell on you, and there is nothing you can do to remove them as there are some towers in this game that orbitals don't hit the tops of. It's not big boy talk brainchild, its an observation of the majority thought that I found ironic to talk about. So if you would kindly just stop thinking about Xerics world for a bit and toughen your resolve instead of knee jerking like you failed the cheerleader try outs. And for the record, I have experienced PC before. Michael Arck wrote: Hilarious that people talk about there's no honor in being a mercenary But wants honorable war tactics to be used instead of cheap ones. ^That's just a good post right there. Michael Arck you must be a very lonely little man.. I've seen you on here multiple times trying to go on the defensive with your incredibly clean grammar, highlighting your lack of knowledge towards how this game is actually played.. If you would stop role-playing and living vicariously through streams maybe you could actually play in the "big boy" leagues some day...
GET ATMESON Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder. 160	Posted - 2013.11.01 05:29:00 - [36] - Quote Just would like to point out that AE has the nastiest FG'ers i played against. If they wont have the roof top I still say they will BLAST YOUR ***. Yes rooftop FG'ing is lame but how are you going to stop this? Remove the roofs of everything? What about the map with 2 inside and 3 out? Cut the buildings out and put a wall? I dont think that will happen or if it does it will be SOONtm Not trying to disrespect you in this post. I do agree but I just dont see anyway to fix FG sniping. Maybe if CCP gave heavys other GUNS we could use them instead. Are HMG sucks butt(for nice words) and the FG was the go to gun for us.
Niuvo NECROM0NGERS 693	Posted - 2013.11.01 05:34:00 - [37] - Quote FG is getting a tweak.
Xender17 MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 881	Posted - 2013.11.01 06:16:00 - [38] - Quote You know what I just realized.... Why in the hek to heavies complain about having only 2 weapons??? They have all of the weapons. True one of the weapons, only they can fit, sucks. But you have access to every single weapon in the game. The FG is a sniper rifle that KOs and you don't need to zoom in. Heavies have exclusives and everything else, not less. The only part of a heavies life that isn't good is HMGs. What the fox say?
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles 2401	Posted - 2013.11.01 06:22:00 - [39] - Quote Why you gotta look at us? We adapted and started doing it cuz every ***** corp does this ** ass tactic. We hate it too. But if you don't use it, the other team will you over with it. We saw it first hand from KEQ back in hellstorm.... We mastered it by watching Teamplayers. Lol Btw: I think the best way to fix it is by just redoing the maps. Make the roofs have proper gates on them you can't shoot under/over/ through.,I don't think you should get rid of the roofs though lol GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 2**
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 22	Posted - 2013.11.01 08:16:00 - [40] - Quote Xender17 wrote: You know what I just realized.... Why in the hek to heavies complain about having only 2 weapons??? They have all of the weapons. True one of the weapons, only they can fit, sucks. But you have access to every single weapon in the game. The FG is a sniper rifle that KOs and you don't need to zoom in. Heavies have exclusives and everything else, not less. The only part of a heavies life that isn't good is HMGs. As someone who was a nearly full-time heavy in Chrome, and is currently a part-time heavy, it's because the heavy suit is really defined by that heavy weapon slot. In part the complaints stem from the fact that a particular weapon cough AR cough outperforms a heavy weapon (HMG) in every possible way, and the fact that light class weapons are generally not very competitive/effective on a heavy suit. There are an incredibly small number of non-heavy weapons that I would put on a heavy suit- even in Chrome, it generally boiled down to "LASER HEAVY" or "SNIPER HEAVY" if I wanted to use a light weapon- and half of that was due to the exorbitant cost of being bootylicious in Chrome. Right now, I'd say Laser/Scrambler/Sniper Rifles are the only good ideas for light-class weapons, because they bring extra engagement range with more endurance than a Forge Gun- and this is REALLY useful for heavies, who generally have a hard time closing range because of being so slow. There's also the issue that with two possible exceptions- one being Sniper Rifles- a medium frame with that same light weapon will be a far superior choice 99% of the time. The 1% is that one in a million time where it works, or the slightly-more-common fringe cases of doing something strange/crazy and generally awesome-but-ridiculously-impractical. The second exception is Commando suits, but this is mostly because lol2lightweapons.

Wallaby1 The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 45	Posted - 2013.11.01 09:03:00 - [41] - Quote hmmm i agree rooftops are annoying but lets not overreact here people! we don't need to remove tall buildings or make them inaccessible , its a valid strategic move to take the high ground!! what i believe is that all objectives should be placed inside a indoors environment or barricade , honestly what kind of architect thinks (herpde derp ima put this valuable hackable console out in the rain!?) long story short their should be battlefields with little cover which then funnel into CQC indoor environments where the objectives are located .
Jacques Cayton II Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 59	Posted - 2013.11.01 09:40:00 - [42] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Jacques Cayton II wrote: Stop crying if you get forged get a sniper rifle done. We heavies have 2 weapons leave us alone. Pretty sure you aren't in PC. There's a difference. I don't care if people get the high ground in a pub. I've been in pc I was in cronos when it was big I dabble every now and again so your argument is invalid mister
Jacques Cayton II Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 59	Posted - 2013.11.01 09:41:00 - [43] - Quote Xerics wrote: Jacques Cayton II wrote: Stop crying if you get forged get a sniper rifle done. We heavies have 2 weapons leave us alone. Forge guns are one shot direct or 2 shots with splash damage. Snipers can't even get a heavy dead in 2 head shots, not to mention after the first shot they can retreat back 5 feet casue you are forced to shoot up at them making them have cover you cant remove. I guerss another way to fix those towers would be make them destructible objects that can collapse on people and kill them. This gives the heavies what they want I guess and lets us remove those pesky rooftops if we are committed enough. Also you have more then 2 weapons. As a matter of fact you can use every damn weapon in the game. Quit your "We only have 2 weapons" BS. I am a heavy I am supposed to use heavy weapons their are to heavy weapons boom shut up or nut up
Jacques Cayton II Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 59	Posted - 2013.11.01 09:50:00 - [44] - Quote Xerics wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: In what world do you live in where rooftop forge gunners are considered "New" they have been around for good amount of time now. Yeah they have been around but they have very recently become the staple. The game shouldnt be about 1 gun taking care of all your problems. this eliminates teamwork all together becasue you now just need 1 guy to watch a point that cant be killed. Like the ar
steadyhand amarr MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 1659	Posted - 2013.11.01 10:08:00 - [45] - Quote The deployable shields if we ever see them should fix rooftop camping tbh ccp need to make them asap "my faith is my shield, the empress's light my guide and my fury my sword"
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1785	Posted - 2013.11.01 11:46:00 - [46] - Quote Jacques Cayton II wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Jacques Cayton II wrote: Stop crying if you get forged get a sniper rifle done. We heavies have 2 weapons leave us alone. Pretty sure you aren't in PC. There's a difference. I don't care if people get the high ground in a pub. I've been in pc I was in cronos when it was big I dabble every now and again so your argument is invalid mister Dude, you are like the only guy I know that's ever done PC and thinks the rooftop FG stuff is good for the game. But then I don't think Cronos has been in PC since May-June. Things are different, the rooftop FG is a problem and CCP agrees. Hence the splash nerf.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1169	Posted - 2013.11.01 11:49:00 - [47] - Quote Jacques Cayton II wrote: Stop crying if you get forged get a sniper rifle done. We heavies have 2 weapons leave us alone. LOL a sniper rifle. A Thale's won't do enough fast enough to get rid of a rooftop forge gunner. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1169	Posted - 2013.11.01 11:51:00 - [48] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: Xerics wrote: The forge gun was never meant to be an anti infantry weapon, just like the flaylock was never meant to replace your main weapon. Sorry, but you have absolutely nothing to support this position. The Forge Gun has always had the same anti-everything ability, even with numerous tweaks and numerous chances to tweak by CCP. It very clearly is meant to be what it is. I agree it should only be a skillshot anti-infantry weapon, however. The nerf coming in 1.6 is a good change, and we'll see if it needs further nerfing. And I agree that the biggest problem is rooftops with limited access. On maps where there are multiple ways to get to the roof, Forge Guns can't control the whole field, and they tend to get shot up and dislodged. The answer isn't sexy, but dropship-only-accessible rooftops need fences around the edges to limit sniping and forging. There should be no part of any map where there is only one way to get up there. It's too defensible, and it's bad game design. Why the hell does everyone think everything vehicle related is being changed when 1.6 comes out? It's being changed 1.7, not 1.6. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 587	Posted - 2013.11.01 11:57:00 - [49] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Hilarious that people talk about there's no honor in being a mercenary But wants honorable war tactics to be used instead of cheap ones. not like we dont have honorable war tactics IRL, you know, no chemical or biological weapons and that sort of stuff? Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt (The Generals) / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence)
Kal Kronos L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 94	Posted - 2013.11.01 12:03:00 - [50] - Quote I got killed 12 times by OH FG in one PC, you dont see me crying... My only request is to buff dropships so we can get those bastards down once they're up there...

Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 948	Posted - 2013.11.01 12:06:00 - [51] - Quote Wallaby1 wrote: its a valid strategic move to take the high ground!! It is. It's also poor gameplay design when that high ground is insanely easy to defend once you have it. High ground should be a significant advantage, but there must be multiple ways to lose the high ground for it to be balanced. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 0 (900/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1166	Posted - 2013.11.01 12:07:00 - [52] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: If that isn't enough the most responsible suggestion i've seen so far is to make the forge splash pure EM damage I'll admit... that's kind of a cool idea. I still don't think single-access roofs are balanced in any way, however. Agreed about the roofs. I find myself wishing scouts could climb walls by fitting a 'gecko' module. But then i think what a wall-climbing scout with working shotguns and knives means and i very gently put that idea down again. And i'm guessing that would be a lot of work for CCP.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1166	Posted - 2013.11.01 12:17:00 - [53] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: I believe the forge gun needs to stay as what it is: an anti-material weapon. It'll be interesting to see what difference the splash radius change makes. If that isn't enough the most responsible suggestion i've seen so far is to make the forge splash pure EM damage, so it effects shields only. Direct hits would stay the same. This would go a long way towards balancing the forge gun without having to nerf it in its primary role. It's got nice plausibility/immersion going for it too. How? FG shoots a metal slug at 7km/sec. That is gonna affect more than shields I assure you. Yes, i'm forced to agree that it's hard to ignore a hunk of metal moving at 7 km/s. I say we go Kobayashi Maru on it's ass and change the lore: modify it to a metal slug that gets converted to a solitonic hyper-compressed plasma charge with lotsa energy but low mass. The shield-stripping would result from the collapse of its containment field.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 889	Posted - 2013.11.01 12:24:00 - [54] - Quote Xerics wrote: Back when flaylock pistols first came out everyone used them. They were the go to weapon. Some people even ran suits with dual flaylocks. Now there is a new tactic of choice. Rooftop forgeguns. They need to go. rooftops period need to go. no roof snipers, no roof forge guns, no roof lasers. the roofs of every map have become worse then the old manus peak map with its giant mountain. At least with the mountain you could get up there. You cant get up on the towers to take them down because the only way to get up there is via dropship and with rooftop forgers you aren't getting anywhere close to them. Even the "supposedly" best corps in the game cant win without them (I'm looking at you Ancient Exiles). There are two ways to fix this. The first is to remove the towers all together. This would make all unit fight on ground level or get up in the mountain areas where someone could still technically chase you down on foot. The other option is to change forge guns. There are also 2 ways to fix forge guns. The first is to remove the splash damage entirely. The other is to make it like the swarm launcher. Only effective against vehicles. Change it completely to where it is a charged shot that scrambles electronics making it 100% ineffective against infantry. The forge gun was never meant to be an anti infantry weapon, just like the flaylock was never meant to replace your main weapon. Don't worry rooftops are being reworked! The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3589	Posted - 2013.11.01 12:55:00 - [55] - Quote Xerics wrote: Back when flaylock pistols first came out everyone used them. They were the go to weapon. Some people even ran suits with dual flaylocks. Now there is a new tactic of choice. Rooftop forgeguns. They need to go. rooftops period need to go. no roof snipers, no roof forge guns, no roof lasers. the roofs of every map have become worse then the old manus peak map with its giant mountain. At least with the mountain you could get up there. You cant get up on the towers to take them down because the only way to get up there is via dropship and with rooftop forgers you aren't getting anywhere close to them. Even the "supposedly" best corps in the game cant win without them (I'm looking at you Ancient Exiles). There are two ways to fix this. The first is to remove the towers all together. This would make all unit fight on ground level or get up in the mountain areas where someone could still technically chase you down on foot. The other option is to change forge guns. There are also 2 ways to fix forge guns. The first is to remove the splash damage entirely. The other is to make it like the swarm launcher. Only effective against vehicles. Change it completely to where it is a charged shot that scrambles electronics making it 100% ineffective against infantry. The forge gun was never meant to be an anti infantry weapon, just like the flaylock was never meant to replace your main weapon. The only thing I saw from this was a bunch of Ancient Exiles and Forge Gun butt hurt. But in all seriousness, rooftops and forge guns aren't the problem - they can be insanely healthy in a game and require you to, you know, actually strategize? Think? I know it's unheard of in an FPS game and people start frothing at the mouth or having brain aneurisms whenever logic attacks but neither of these issues are the issue at all. It's the matter of having both cover and line of sight on those skylines. See, thing about the Orbital Artillery and why the 'Forge Tower' is such a consistent and constant play is because that tower can only be accessed by a drop ship, has these big metal walls that protect the people on it and has a -direct line of sight- on Alpha. That's one objective (and the surrounding area included) you will never have to worry about once you're up there and it is very difficult to get them off of that rooftop because of the cover associated. The only 100% efficient method is an orbital and considering the time it takes to get them it becomes even harder. Take a look at the Caldari Biomass Outpost. Why is it that this is never a problem when forge gunners/snipers get up there? Because in order for them to shoot you, they have to put themselves in a position where you can shoot back. There's absolutely no cover up there and as a result it's not as favorable as a tactic. A lot of newer players try it out but that's when guys like me start doing this. Fact is, anyone with military experience will tell you that sniping (in any form) plus showing off your silhouette is a BAD IDEA. What your experiencing is a consequence of bad map design from before Level Design re-evaluated everything. To that extent, I don't even think LogicLoop was on board with the project when the Orbital Artillery was being worked on. Even then? It's already been confirmed for redesign. ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 190	Posted - 2013.11.01 12:57:00 - [56] - Quote People don't like "cheap" tactics because they are effective and difficult to counter. Got news for you...that's how this whole war thing works. You take your guys, the terrain, and your mission into account and organize yourself In a way that gives you the best chance of winning for the least cost. Forge snipers are an effective and legit tactic and with plenty of way to counter it. And anyone carrying on abut how bad this is for the game can you tell me you NEVER benefitted from the "cheap" tactic?
Lucifalic The Generals EoN. 146	Posted - 2013.11.01 13:14:00 - [57] - Quote Let scout suits climb buildings
Justice Prevails HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 66	Posted - 2013.11.01 13:31:00 - [58] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: People don't like "cheap" tactics because they are effective and difficult to counter. Got news for you...that's how this whole war thing works. You take your guys, the terrain, and your mission into account and organize yourself In a way that gives you the best chance of winning for the least cost. Forge snipers are an effective and legit tactic and with plenty of ways to counter it. And anyone carrying on abut how bad this is for the game can you tell me you NEVER benefitted from the "cheap" tactic? You're just crazy buddy. Have no idea what you're talking about. I would say more, but I have to restock my flaylock, duvolle, grenades, and nanohives, and load them up in my bpo lav.:-)
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 193	Posted - 2013.11.01 13:42:00 - [59] - Quote Plunging fire...Google it. May have to skill into mass drivers just to increase the anguish to joy ratio in the forums.
Shattered Mirage D.A.R.K Academy D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 343	Posted - 2013.11.01 14:05:00 - [60] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: Xerics wrote: The forge gun was never meant to be an anti infantry weapon, just like the flaylock was never meant to replace your main weapon. Sorry, but you have absolutely nothing to support this position. The Forge Gun has always had the same anti-everything ability, even with numerous tweaks and numerous chances to tweak by CCP. It very clearly is meant to be what it is. I agree it should only be a skillshot anti-infantry weapon, however. The nerf coming in 1.6 is a good change, and we'll see if it needs further nerfing. And I agree that the biggest problem is rooftops with limited access. On maps where there are multiple ways to get to the roof, Forge Guns can't control the whole field, and they tend to get shot up and dislodged. The answer isn't sexy, but dropship-only-accessible rooftops need fences around the edges to limit sniping and forging. There should be no part of any map where there is only one way to get up there. It's too defensible, and it's bad game design. You do realise that people who are good at killing with them will still kill with them right? In the end, the nerf won't really solve anything; it might cause a few of the people trying it out because of people say it's supposedly "OP" to leave but, thats really it. What is the truth, but a lie agreed upon. There are no facts, only interpretations.

Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 542	Posted - 2013.11.01 14:27:00 - [61] - Quote Do we have Scout Dropships? I only dabble in militia vehicles but if we don't, we should have some Scout ones that automatically have a crap load of speed without upgrades. I think that would hit the nail on the head... But then we could just nerf the Assault Forge Gun(If not all Forge Guns).
Jacques Cayton II Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 63	Posted - 2013.11.01 15:38:00 - [62] - Quote Kal Kronos wrote: I got killed 12 times by OH FG in one PC, you dont see me crying... My only request is to buff dropships so we can get those bastards down once they're up there... You sir are correct these other guys who say a weapon is op because it kills them in a certain situation when u r using the weapon correctly are hurting the game. Heavies need to be left alone we have a hard enough time as it is and if you think otherwise then your wrong. And also I played in a match where a forge gunner was on top of the building guess what we got three guys with sniper rifles and took him out then flew a dropship up there and took it for ourselves. Use tactics it works just running around taking objectives and hoping one guy can do it is just stupid that is my isklet on the situation
Beck Weathers Ghosts of Dawn 190	Posted - 2013.11.01 16:10:00 - [63] - Quote just make their forge gun cross hairs not turn orange if a targets a none vehical, then he would have to actualy SEE the target to shoot at them rather than just panning around till the crosshairs turn to "go go go"
CHIPMINT BUTTERCUP 124	Posted - 2013.11.01 16:29:00 - [64] - Quote Jet packs. Booooooommmmmm! Your Welcome. DUST514 Love The Dream Hate The Product Dusters - WhenGäó CCP - SoonGäó
Smooth Assassin Stardust incorporation 327	Posted - 2013.11.01 16:37:00 - [65] - Quote Xerics wrote: Back when flaylock pistols first came out everyone used them. They were the go to weapon. Some people even ran suits with dual flaylocks. Now there is a new tactic of choice. Rooftop forgeguns. They need to go. rooftops period need to go. no roof snipers, no roof forge guns, no roof lasers. the roofs of every map have become worse then the old manus peak map with its giant mountain. At least with the mountain you could get up there. You cant get up on the towers to take them down because the only way to get up there is via dropship and with rooftop forgers you aren't getting anywhere close to them. Even the "supposedly" best corps in the game cant win without them (I'm looking at you Ancient Exiles). There are two ways to fix this. The first is to remove the towers all together. This would make all unit fight on ground level or get up in the mountain areas where someone could still technically chase you down on foot. The other option is to change forge guns. There are also 2 ways to fix forge guns. The first is to remove the splash damage entirely. The other is to make it like the swarm launcher. Only effective against vehicles. Change it completely to where it is a charged shot that scrambles electronics making it 100% ineffective against infantry. The forge gun was never meant to be an anti infantry weapon, just like the flaylock was never meant to replace your main weapon. Too bad they said that you can snipe with the forge gun and i use double flaylocks *Assassination is my thing.*
Kal Kronos L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 98	Posted - 2013.11.01 22:23:00 - [66] - Quote CHIPMINT BUTTERCUP wrote: Jet packs. Booooooommmmmm! Your Welcome. I can already tell you jetpacks will result in some of the most annoying tactics you have ever seen. Go play halo 4 and tell me how much you want jetpacks in this game. The only way they would work is if you can't fire while jetting, just visualize 12 jetpack MDs every game you play if that is not the case lol.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1169	Posted - 2013.11.02 00:11:00 - [67] - Quote Thinking about this a little bit more, it bothers me that we're discussing various ways we can distort the game to deal with FGers on rooftops. While it's true that there may be weapon balance issues, the heart of the problem has been stated many times by others: industrial high ground is inaccessible except by dropship, and dropships are weak to FGs. Don't like railings because taking and using high ground is just basic tactics and shouldn't be punished - if we start doing that we're effectively nerfing smart gameplay. This all implies that we need alternative means by which to A)attack high ground and B)get to high ground. Some ideas(i didn't say they were good) for A) laser-guided missiles(or maybe swarms in single-missile mode). That Minmatar anti-vehicle sniper rifle that we were teased with so long ago...i wonder what the range is? And what does it do to a heavy? Maybe likewise for the Ammar/Gallente. Would be nice if the Gallente one could lob giant gobs of plasma up to those towertops. Mortars - though this idea is loathsome in tomuchexlosivespam514. Some ideas(ditto) for B) Scout Gecko module/equipment with a looong recharge timer. Turbo-lifts or bounce plates in towers - BUT with exit areas that are tactically neutral for both parties. Great fights with a great view ;) Single-use glider packs for MCC debarking. These packs would allow the merc free weapons fire while gliding. New equipment: levitation pads. They have some Newton-meter(pound-foot) capacity that will lift a certain weight a certain height. Calibrate them so that they can't carry a heavy to a tower top. Those are my ideas, please feel free to trash them and ******* some of your own ;)
Panoscape BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 152	Posted - 2013.11.02 00:32:00 - [68] - Quote To dislodge the tower campers you need two dropships, one as a decoy and one as a backdoor sneaker. The decoy is most likely going to die, but could survive. The sneaker comes in on the backside of the camper, lands, pops out and shoots the camper. As a tower camping proto swarmer, this has tactic has killed me several times. This will be harder to do with four campers though, but orbitals DO hit the top of the towers so use them.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2723	Posted - 2013.11.02 00:45:00 - [69] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Hilarious that people talk about there's no honor in being a mercenary But wants honorable war tactics to be used instead of cheap ones. You're confusing "honorable" with "fun." One or two people being able to lock down and dictate the game for 16 opponents due to poor game design is only enjoyable for the two guys forge sniping.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 721	Posted - 2013.11.02 00:52:00 - [70] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: I have a better solution, add ladders to the tall towers. I can tell you, as an asshat forge gunner, that won't work. It's really easy to watch one ladder to cover your rear, especially if there's only one and it takes a while to climb up. The ladders on Skim Junction work, but when you get the Manus Peak map with a very tall building with a ladder, that one is incredibly easy to cover. They need fences. Only reasonably accessible and low roofs should be part of the play space. If you take the skyscrapers on the side out of the equation, Skim Junction is great. The Gallente Research Facility is near perfect. Biomass and Communications have problem areas, and Orbital Artillery actually needs some fences removed... Hmm. Turn those diagonal slats of metal on the sides of the really tall towers into stairwells. It would be a really tall climb, but it would be mostly safe from FGs and snipers. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Burner of faces. The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.

Idye Lotz xCosmic Voidx Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 162	Posted - 2013.11.02 03:17:00 - [71] - Quote Hmm maybe the solution is to make dropships stronger vs Forge Guns. This would do two things, give dropships a buff and a counter to rooftopping.
Blake Kingston Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 141	Posted - 2013.11.02 04:07:00 - [72] - Quote Xerics wrote: I guerss another way to fix those towers would be make them destructible objects that can collapse on people and kill them. This gives the heavies what they want I guess and lets us remove those pesky rooftops if we are committed enough. And would look cool! You completely forgot the best part!!!


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