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Xerics
Red Star. EoN.
18
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Posted - 2013.11.01 00:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
Back when flaylock pistols first came out everyone used them. They were the go to weapon. Some people even ran suits with dual flaylocks.
Now there is a new tactic of choice. Rooftop forgeguns. They need to go. rooftops period need to go. no roof snipers, no roof forge guns, no roof lasers. the roofs of every map have become worse then the old manus peak map with its giant mountain. At least with the mountain you could get up there. You cant get up on the towers to take them down because the only way to get up there is via dropship and with rooftop forgers you aren't getting anywhere close to them.
Even the "supposedly" best corps in the game cant win without them (I'm looking at you Ancient Exiles). There are two ways to fix this. The first is to remove the towers all together. This would make all unit fight on ground level or get up in the mountain areas where someone could still technically chase you down on foot. The other option is to change forge guns. There are also 2 ways to fix forge guns. The first is to remove the splash damage entirely. The other is to make it like the swarm launcher. Only effective against vehicles. Change it completely to where it is a charged shot that scrambles electronics making it 100% ineffective against infantry.
The forge gun was never meant to be an anti infantry weapon, just like the flaylock was never meant to replace your main weapon. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
1779
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Posted - 2013.11.01 00:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
I agree with a lot of that. We were inaccurately accused by your corp of rooftop camping. We hate it, I mean you have to do it now or you might as well not be in PC at all.
It seems like the cheapest tactic in Dust history. I've seen a corp I won't mention put a LLAV up there that shield and armor reps making the FGer nearly invincible. Not to mention despite us using an ADS with a MCRU they were already on the roof with remotes set up waiting. When our ADS landed, they popped it with the remotes.
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Jacques Cayton II
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
54
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Posted - 2013.11.01 00:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Stop crying if you get forged get a sniper rifle done. We heavies have 2 weapons leave us alone. |
Xerics
Red Star. EoN.
18
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Posted - 2013.11.01 01:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jacques Cayton II wrote:Stop crying if you get forged get a sniper rifle done. We heavies have 2 weapons leave us alone.
Forge guns are one shot direct or 2 shots with splash damage. Snipers can't even get a heavy dead in 2 head shots, not to mention after the first shot they can retreat back 5 feet casue you are forced to shoot up at them making them have cover you cant remove.
I guerss another way to fix those towers would be make them destructible objects that can collapse on people and kill them. This gives the heavies what they want I guess and lets us remove those pesky rooftops if we are committed enough. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
1779
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Posted - 2013.11.01 01:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jacques Cayton II wrote:Stop crying if you get forged get a sniper rifle done. We heavies have 2 weapons leave us alone.
Pretty sure you aren't in PC.
There's a difference. I don't care if people get the high ground in a pub. |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1725
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Posted - 2013.11.01 01:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hilarious that people talk about there's no honor in being a mercenary
But wants honorable war tactics to be used instead of cheap ones. |
Thor McStrut
Reckoners
302
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Posted - 2013.11.01 01:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Taking the high ground is a very viable combat strategy. Currently there are no sustainable counters to the FG. Maybe the introduction of bombers will change that? |
Xerics
Red Star. EoN.
18
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Posted - 2013.11.01 01:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Hilarious that people talk about there's no honor in being a mercenary
But wants honorable war tactics to be used instead of cheap ones.
lol this is big boy talk. come back when you have experienced PC and having 4 forge guns rain down hell on you, and there is nothing you can do to remove them as there are some towers in this game that orbitals don't hit the tops of. |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1725
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Posted - 2013.11.01 01:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Xerics wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Hilarious that people talk about there's no honor in being a mercenary
But wants honorable war tactics to be used instead of cheap ones. lol this is big boy talk. come back when you have experienced PC and having 4 forge guns rain down hell on you, and there is nothing you can do to remove them as there are some towers in this game that orbitals don't hit the tops of.
It's not big boy talk brainchild, its an observation of the majority thought that I found ironic to talk about. So if you would kindly just stop thinking about Xerics world for a bit and toughen your resolve instead of knee jerking like you failed the cheerleader try outs.
And for the record, I have experienced PC before.
Michael Arck wrote:Hilarious that people talk about there's no honor in being a mercenary
But wants honorable war tactics to be used instead of cheap ones.
^That's just a good post right there.
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
711
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Posted - 2013.11.01 01:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
How exactly do you just get rid of roofs? No dropships, ladders or stairs? You are asking for a bit (a lot) too much. Also, it is fine when a Laser Rifle user goes on a roof.
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
Burner of faces.
The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
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Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
945
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Posted - 2013.11.01 01:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Xerics wrote:The forge gun was never meant to be an anti infantry weapon, just like the flaylock was never meant to replace your main weapon.
Sorry, but you have absolutely nothing to support this position. The Forge Gun has always had the same anti-everything ability, even with numerous tweaks and numerous chances to tweak by CCP. It very clearly is meant to be what it is.
I agree it should only be a skillshot anti-infantry weapon, however. The nerf coming in 1.6 is a good change, and we'll see if it needs further nerfing.
And I agree that the biggest problem is rooftops with limited access. On maps where there are multiple ways to get to the roof, Forge Guns can't control the whole field, and they tend to get shot up and dislodged.
The answer isn't sexy, but dropship-only-accessible rooftops need fences around the edges to limit sniping and forging. There should be no part of any map where there is only one way to get up there. It's too defensible, and it's bad game design.
¶Gêƒ__ Gò«
Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 0 (900/1000XP)
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Xerics
Red Star. EoN.
18
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Posted - 2013.11.01 01:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:How exactly do you just get rid of roofs? No dropships, ladders or stairs? You are asking for a bit (a lot) too much. Also, it is fine when a Laser Rifle user goes on a roof.
You get rid of roofs the same way all other games do. Make a zone ceiling that prevents the drop ship from getting high enough to drop people on a roof. either that or make the roofs so ungodly high up that a forge gun shot cant reach the ground level before fizzling out. It really a simple fix to add a ceiling to the zones.
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Viktor Hadah Jr
Negative-Impact Cult of War
816
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Posted - 2013.11.01 01:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
In what world do you live in where rooftop forge gunners are considered "New" they have been around for good amount of time now.
For the Empire!
Member of ASS: Amarr Secret Service.
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Powerh8er
Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men.
231
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Posted - 2013.11.01 01:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
Maybe if the HMG wasnt so useless, heavies wouldnt use the forgegun as much against infantry. |
Patrick57
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
1178
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Posted - 2013.11.01 01:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
Getting rid of rooftops entirely would make a lot of the matches pretty stale. Having to dodge FG fire is pretty fun IMO. You're like, "Oh ****! A FG!" Then you start hopping around like a blind monkey.
It's just another part of the risk/reward thing CCP has made.
But I do agree, there should be other ways to the top of a tower.
Sniper don't do **** to good Forge Gunners (unless it's a Thale's) so that's no use. As a secondary Forge Gunner myself, I sometimes even get shot at by 3-4 snipers all at once
There should also be more incentives to use a Breach FG against Vehicles vs an Assault FG against Vehicles. Maybe reduced damage with an increased blast radius? (Also, reduce the splash damage for that idea...)
:D
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Xerics
Red Star. EoN.
18
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Posted - 2013.11.01 01:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:In what world do you live in where rooftop forge gunners are considered "New" they have been around for good amount of time now.
Yeah they have been around but they have very recently become the staple. The game shouldnt be about 1 gun taking care of all your problems. this eliminates teamwork all together becasue you now just need 1 guy to watch a point that cant be killed.
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Xerics
Red Star. EoN.
18
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Posted - 2013.11.01 01:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:Getting rid of rooftops entirely would make a lot of the matches pretty stale. Having to dodge FG fire is pretty fun IMO. You're like, "Oh ****! A FG!" Then you start hopping around like a blind monkey. It's just another part of the risk/reward thing CCP has made. But I do agree, there should be other ways to the top of a tower. Sniper don't do **** to good Forge Gunners (unless it's a Thale's) so that's no use. As a secondary Forge Gunner myself, I sometimes even get shot at by 3-4 snipers all at once There should also be more incentives to use a Breach FG against Vehicles vs an Assault FG against Vehicles. Maybe reduced damage with an increased blast radius? (Also, reduce the splash damage for that idea...)
lol having 4 proto assault forge guns shooting you from a tower you dont get time to start jumping around before you pop. |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
711
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Posted - 2013.11.01 01:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
Xerics wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:How exactly do you just get rid of roofs? No dropships, ladders or stairs? You are asking for a bit (a lot) too much. Also, it is fine when a Laser Rifle user goes on a roof. You get rid of roofs the same way all other games do. Make a zone ceiling that prevents the drop ship from getting high enough to drop people on a roof. either that or make the roofs so ungodly high up that a forge gun shot cant reach the ground level before fizzling out. It really a simple fix to add a ceiling to the zones. Ha. No. We had low flight ceilings, nobody liked them. I have a better solution, add ladders to the tall towers.
You want to play a game where you can't go on a roof at all because its "not fair", COD Ghosts should be out pretty soon.
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
Burner of faces.
The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
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Xerics
Red Star. EoN.
18
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Posted - 2013.11.01 01:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Xerics wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:How exactly do you just get rid of roofs? No dropships, ladders or stairs? You are asking for a bit (a lot) too much. Also, it is fine when a Laser Rifle user goes on a roof. You get rid of roofs the same way all other games do. Make a zone ceiling that prevents the drop ship from getting high enough to drop people on a roof. either that or make the roofs so ungodly high up that a forge gun shot cant reach the ground level before fizzling out. It really a simple fix to add a ceiling to the zones. Ha. No. We had low flight ceilings, nobody liked them. I have a better solution, add ladders to the tall towers. You want to play a game where you can't go on a roof at all because its "not fair", COD Ghosts should be out pretty soon.
lol COD is a game where all you have is one shots. Thats a terrible game and im surprised it has gone on as long as it has with its stale features, boring colors and samey game play. |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
945
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Posted - 2013.11.01 02:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote: I have a better solution, add ladders to the tall towers.
I can tell you, as an asshat forge gunner, that won't work. It's really easy to watch one ladder to cover your rear, especially if there's only one and it takes a while to climb up.
The ladders on Skim Junction work, but when you get the Manus Peak map with a very tall building with a ladder, that one is incredibly easy to cover.
They need fences. Only reasonably accessible and low roofs should be part of the play space. If you take the skyscrapers on the side out of the equation, Skim Junction is great. The Gallente Research Facility is near perfect. Biomass and Communications have problem areas, and Orbital Artillery actually needs some fences removed...
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crazy space 1
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
1957
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Posted - 2013.11.01 02:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
They are getting a huge nerf to splash range, but there have been rooftop forge gun sniping since the 2nd build I hope it stays. |
Happy Violentime
OMFGZOMBIESRUN
133
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Posted - 2013.11.01 03:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
Xerics wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Hilarious that people talk about there's no honor in being a mercenary
But wants honorable war tactics to be used instead of cheap ones. lol this is big boy talk. come back when you have experienced PC and having 4 forge guns rain down hell on you, and there is nothing you can do to remove them as there are some towers in this game that orbitals don't hit the tops of.
Suck it up baby, suck.... It....... Up!
Get rid of towers??? Omg what is wrong with you people??? Seriously? If you make this game any flatter it might as well be a sideways scrolling shooter. |
TcuBe3
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
197
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Posted - 2013.11.01 03:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:I agree with a lot of that. We were inaccurately accused by your corp of rooftop camping. We hate it, I mean you have to do it now or you might as well not be in PC at all.
It seems like the cheapest tactic in Dust history. I've seen a corp I won't mention put a LLAV up there that shield and armor reps making the FGer nearly invincible. Not to mention despite us using an ADS with a MCRU they were already on the roof with remotes set up waiting. When our ADS landed, they popped it with the remotes.
I saw the same tactic used in Afghanistan, I'm not even joking bro... They almost got a UH 60 on the LZ with remote set. Mabye they are secretly working with the Taliban |
Happy Violentime
OMFGZOMBIESRUN
134
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Posted - 2013.11.01 03:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
Just another average thread about nerfing something so you don't die by it. War isn't fair! PC rewards people who are organised. If the other teams organisation allows them to get control of a vantage point then maybe your team needs to get better?
A heavy on the roof with a forge gun.. Oh my!!!! |
Defy Gravity
Unreal-MoFos
128
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Posted - 2013.11.01 03:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Xerics wrote:Back when flaylock pistols first came out everyone used them. They were the go to weapon. Some people even ran suits with dual flaylocks.
Now there is a new tactic of choice. Rooftop forgeguns. They need to go. rooftops period need to go. no roof snipers, no roof forge guns, no roof lasers. the roofs of every map have become worse then the old manus peak map with its giant mountain. At least with the mountain you could get up there. You cant get up on the towers to take them down because the only way to get up there is via dropship and with rooftop forgers you aren't getting anywhere close to them.
Even the "supposedly" best corps in the game cant win without them (I'm looking at you Ancient Exiles). There are two ways to fix this. The first is to remove the towers all together. This would make all unit fight on ground level or get up in the mountain areas where someone could still technically chase you down on foot. The other option is to change forge guns. There are also 2 ways to fix forge guns. The first is to remove the splash damage entirely. The other is to make it like the swarm launcher. Only effective against vehicles. Change it completely to where it is a charged shot that scrambles electronics making it 100% ineffective against infantry.
The forge gun was never meant to be an anti infantry weapon, just like the flaylock was never meant to replace your main weapon. But... Why.... Would... You point fingers at AE when every heavy in EoN forge gun Snipes???
But I agree with forge guns being anoying.... To lose that proto suit to total BS thats understandable ( Derp Explosives )
GÇ£War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.GÇ¥
GÇò George Orwell
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low genius
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
799
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Posted - 2013.11.01 03:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
i'm sorry, but... didn't EoN. abuse that tactic to no end?
sorry about your luck. get some eve support. |
Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1754
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Posted - 2013.11.01 03:56:00 -
[27] - Quote
Let them get up there, just give us a way to get the bastards down.
(Artillery, hint, hint)
Sinboto - The True Blood Minja.
Forum Warrior level 1
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Xerics
Red Star. EoN.
21
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Posted - 2013.11.01 04:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
Happy Violentime wrote:Just another average thread about nerfing something so you don't die by it. War isn't fair! PC rewards people who are organised. If the other teams organisation allows them to get control of a vantage point then maybe your team needs to get better?
A heavy on the roof with a forge gun.. Oh my!!!!
lol 1 forge is manageable. 4 forges is not. You go against Ancient exiles with their 4 proto forges on the roof and you'll go negative,i guarantee it |
Xerics
Red Star. EoN.
21
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Posted - 2013.11.01 04:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
I did figure out a new equipment that could be useful against such BS tactics. Drone equipment.
Drone is launched from the suit where you take control of it. then you fly it using fighter jet controls, not the ******** dropship controls, and it can shoot missiles. Standard has 1 missile, advanced has 2 an proto has 3. missiles do all the same damage from level to level but they are more accurate then the turret missiles and hit like grenades with a splash radius similar to core locus grenades. They are also as small as infantry making them hard to hit with forges. The drawback would be that you lose control of your dropsuit so if someone sneaks up on you then you are going to lose control of the drone
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Vitharr Foebane
Blood Money Mercenaries
169
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Posted - 2013.11.01 04:11:00 -
[30] - Quote
Xerics wrote:I did figure out a new equipment that could be useful against such BS tactics. Drone equipment.
Drone is launched from the suit where you take control of it. then you fly it using fighter jet controls, not the ******** dropship controls, and it can shoot missiles. Standard has 1 missile, advanced has 2 an proto has 3. missiles do all the same damage from level to level but they are more accurate then the turret missiles and hit like grenades with a splash radius similar to core locus grenades. They are also as small as infantry making them hard to hit with forges. The drawback would be that you lose control of your dropsuit so if someone sneaks up on you then you are going to lose control of the drone
Let's get the full set of racial suits and weapons *cough* heavy lasers *cough* first. After that sure expand equipment and such.
Dedicated fattie in need of new heavy content.
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