DUST Search - Lets all be honest here...

Kallas Hallytyr wrote:

Atiim wrote:

The fact that an ADV scanner can beat a scout with 1 proto dampner does not make it OP

It's balanced

Light Frame profile is 45db base.
Medium Frame profile is 50db base.
Profile Dampening 5 (to access proto modules) gives a 10% reduction = 40.5db light/45db medium.
1 Complex Dampener gives a 25% reduction = 30.375db light/33.75db medium.

Advanced Scanners precision is 36db.

Even without levels in Scout, any light frame beats Advanced Scanners with a single Prototype Dampener. Similarly, any medium frame defeats Advanced Scanners with a Complex Dampener. It certainly is more intensive to avoid scanning than it is to participate in Scanfest 2013-2014, but it's not difficult to bring your profile below the precision of the majority of Scanners.

Two Complex Dampeners on a medium frame will bring your profile below all Scanners bar the Focused Prototype. Not everyone can run these modules without a reduction in efficiency/survivability, but it's a trade-off: you either survive somewhat better in a straight up fight or you take the opportunity (and acknowledge that you will have to adapt to a less straight forward methodology) to have skewed engagements where you are much more likely to get the drop on someone which can actually increase your overall lifespan immensely.

Soon my brothers shall see the light, free from the shackles of the Amarr Captors

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Vulpes Dolosus Neanderthal Nation Public Disorder. 153	Posted - 2013.10.29 12:58:00 - [31] - Quote Throwing out my ideas for AS balancing: Remove "margin for error" message, if you don't scan something, you shouldn't know about it. Remove the ability to spin. It's purpose should be as a directional scan (that's why we have different scan angles), showing its results of where it's facing after the second or two scan time. Alter the results on the HUD. Make them static red dots that blink over the player every second/half-second or so during the detection duration rather than following them around. Buff the countermeasures. I haven't run any numbers yet but I think it's too hard to counter a scan. [*] I would like an increase in time between scans, but the above ones are acceptable. Dropship Specialist
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 447	Posted - 2013.10.29 13:01:00 - [32] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Atiim wrote: The fact that an ADV scanner can beat a scout with 1 proto dampner does not make it OP It's balanced Light Frame profile is 45db base. Medium Frame profile is 50db base. Profile Dampening 5 (to access proto modules) gives a 10% reduction = 40.5db light/45db medium. 1 Complex Dampener gives a 25% reduction = 30.375db light/33.75db medium. Advanced Scanners precision is 36db. Even without levels in Scout, any light frame beats Advanced Scanners with a single Prototype Dampener. Similarly, any medium frame defeats Advanced Scanners with a Complex Dampener. It certainly is more intensive to avoid scanning than it is to participate in Scanfest 2013-2014, but it's not difficult to bring your profile below the precision of the majority of Scanners. Two Complex Dampeners on a medium frame will bring your profile below all Scanners bar the Focused Prototype. Not everyone can run these modules without a reduction in efficiency/survivability, but it's a trade-off: you either survive somewhat better in a straight up fight or you take the opportunity (and acknowledge that you will have to adapt to a less straight forward methodology) to have skewed engagements where you are much more likely to get the drop on someone which can actually increase your overall lifespan immensely. I was referring to the "Some margin of error" text, which tells me that a scout is nearby and I should watch my back. Soon my brothers shall see the light, free from the shackles of the Amarr Captors All shall taste my Freedom SoonGäó
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 41	Posted - 2013.10.29 13:06:00 - [33] - Quote Atiim wrote: I was referring to the "Some margin of error" text, which tells me that a scout is nearby and I should watch my back. "Some margin of error" versus being lit up for the enemy? I'll take that any day. If anything it adds a little paranoia to those Scanspammers who think they know everything. Edit: I will need to test this to be certain, but I believe that unless you actually successfully scan something, failing to scan a suit does not show the some margin message. As I said, need to test it to be certain but that appears to be the case from anecdotal evidence I have observed.
Idye Lotz xCosmic Voidx Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 149	Posted - 2013.10.29 13:13:00 - [34] - Quote mikegunnz wrote: Alternatively, I like the idea of making dampeners an equipment item. This would make it so ppl couldn't use high level scanners AND dampen themselves. (this is partly why it's OP, you can light up entire teams on minimap AND be a deadly ninja) This would also allow the logi-nerf (that some ppl want) to go thru, while giving the logi an advantage of being the only class that can both scan AND dampen. As a scout I say that is freakin' stupid. Isn't it bad enough I run around in the worst hp suit in the game now you are taking away one of the most effective ways to get kills. No, if you can't kill me with your massive hp suits then no, dampeners stay module.
RECON BY FIRE MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 293	Posted - 2013.10.29 13:57:00 - [35] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: I want to get this off my chest. It's so blatantly obvious yet no ones says anything. The active scanner is over powered. Thank god I let that out... As for my reason? Well I did say it was obvious..and it is. It's a freaking blackbird from COD! Stronger than a UAV... I mean look at the damn thing! lol. I'm being completely serious here.. I mean yes I know that all you have to do is skill into dampening but cmon.. Like.. It really is OP as hell.. Anyone else? I can't be the only one... You forgot its a blackbird you can spam every 5 seconds. I hate the twitch shooter aspect of COD, but looking back it seems there was actual logic to how they setup the killstreaks. Stuff....?
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 449	Posted - 2013.10.29 13:59:00 - [36] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Atiim wrote: I was referring to the "Some margin of error" text, which tells me that a scout is nearby and I should watch my back. "Some margin of error" versus being lit up for the enemy? I'll take that any day. If anything it adds a little paranoia to those Scanspammers who think they know everything. Edit: I will need to test this to be certain, but I believe that unless you actually successfully scan something, failing to scan a suit does not show the some margin message. As I said, need to test it to be certain but that appears to be the case from anecdotal evidence I have observed. Well if you are running a Freedom Mass Driver, and are watching your back, scouts won't be a problem In most cases Soon my brothers shall see the light, free from the shackles of the Amarr Captors All shall taste my Freedom SoonGäó
Idye Lotz xCosmic Voidx Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 151	Posted - 2013.10.29 14:21:00 - [37] - Quote Dirty noob tube user..lol
hackerzilla Defenders of the Helghast Dream 432	Posted - 2013.10.29 14:23:00 - [38] - Quote It's good that it is quite good now because before everyone though that it was all about tanking HP, but now people suffer if they don't use dampeners. I mean honestly theres a reason there are dampeners in the game, CCP put them there deliberately! Give me my Combat Rifle* and Rail Rifle goddammit!*
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 3879	Posted - 2013.10.29 14:34:00 - [39] - Quote i'm a firm believer that an active scan should show you (the user) on the enemies passive scanner, so we end up in a situation where passive scans yield less results but keep you under the radar while an active scanner provides more results but shows you up on the enemy minimap, this not only makes active scanning a risk vs reward activity it also allows for people to bait the enemy into going after a scanner. Lv 3 forum warrior Bringer of Bacon Knight of AMV's
Drapedup Drippedout G.U.T.Z 63	Posted - 2013.10.29 14:48:00 - [40] - Quote Ok, I agree with most of you that the active scanner is annoying as hell. HOWEVER, remember before they came out? You could see everyone anyways unless they were running a dampener(even then could still see). Now you actually have to take 2 seconds and scan to see people. The fact people can see you has not changed, but now you show up with an arrow pointing at you instead of just showing up on mini map automatically. Now here's my proposed fixes: 1. Scans only show up on mini map (top right). No more bright orange/red arrows, must use HUD to hunt. You must have visual contact to see health bars and arrows. 2. The scanner, due to its scienc-y nature, emits a radar signature which makes the person using the scanner show up on the enemy mini map for the same duration that the scan is up (varies by basic, adv, proto). or maybe just an 8 second blip. Something. For the love of God, make it risky somehow. This way scanning is limited to be more of a necessity (risk v. reward) than a luxury. There ought to be some risk involved with running the scanner.

Alldin Kan MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 735	Posted - 2013.10.29 14:50:00 - [41] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: I want to get this off my chest. It's so blatantly obvious yet no ones says anything. The active scanner is over powered. Thank god I let that out... As for my reason? Well I did say it was obvious..and it is. It's a freaking blackbird from COD! Stronger than a UAV... I mean look at the damn thing! lol. I'm being completely serious here.. I mean yes I know that all you have to do is skill into dampening but cmon.. Like.. It really is OP as hell.. Anyone else? I can't be the only one... You're using a dampened scout suit. INFINITE COOKIES LOL Commando LOL Plasma Cannon
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 7299	Posted - 2013.10.29 14:51:00 - [42] - Quote Yea they're way too good right now. YouTube / Twitch
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 787	Posted - 2013.10.29 14:53:00 - [43] - Quote so, you play against a bunch of guys with no electronics skills?
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Cult of War 776	Posted - 2013.10.29 14:54:00 - [44] - Quote Quantum scans are OP the rest are not that bad 5 seconds of seeing the red dots is fine but 18 or 26 is just to much. For the Empire!
Nick nugg3t Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 210	Posted - 2013.10.29 15:09:00 - [45] - Quote I will not admit that the scanner Is over powered, I wont, but I think I see a safe haven from scanners. Its called a scout. scouts should be quick, they are, sneaky, not really, somewhat durable, they are NOT, and should have accurate scanning on there minimap. the scouts role on the battlefield needs to be improved one way or the other, for the better mind you, In an attempt to counter scanning. I know for a fact that active scouters would have way more to add,or change, to this so please excuse my ummm uneducated thoughts.
Mirataf WARRIORS 1NC 84	Posted - 2013.10.29 17:33:00 - [46] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Atiim wrote: The fact that an ADV scanner can beat a scout with 1 proto dampner does not make it OP It's balanced Light Frame profile is 45db base. Medium Frame profile is 50db base. Profile Dampening 5 (to access proto modules) gives a 10% reduction = 40.5db light/45db medium. 1 Complex Dampener gives a 25% reduction = 30.375db light/33.75db medium. Advanced Scanners precision is 36db. Even without levels in Scout, any light frame beats Advanced Scanners with a single Prototype Dampener. Similarly, any medium frame defeats Advanced Scanners with a Complex Dampener. It certainly is more intensive to avoid scanning than it is to participate in Scanfest 2013-2014, but it's not difficult to bring your profile below the precision of the majority of Scanners. Two Complex Dampeners on a medium frame will bring your profile below all Scanners bar the Focused Prototype. Not everyone can run these modules without a reduction in efficiency/survivability, but it's a trade-off: you either survive somewhat better in a straight up fight or you take the opportunity (and acknowledge that you will have to adapt to a less straight forward methodology) to have skewed engagements where you are much more likely to get the drop on someone which can actually increase your overall lifespan immensely. This, this is diversity and I expect more coming (it will take time) but yes If you don't want to be scanned then sacrifice tank. Alternatively keep your massive ehp expect inbound. Why do you care if your getting scanned every minute if you have Max ehp and with a squad.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1656	Posted - 2013.10.29 17:51:00 - [47] - Quote gbghg wrote: i'm a firm believer that an active scan should show you (the user) on the enemies passive scanner, so we end up in a situation where passive scans yield less results but keep you under the radar while an active scanner provides more results but shows you up on the enemy minimap, this not only makes active scanning a risk vs reward activity it also allows for people to bait the enemy into going after a scanner. Wasn't that in the original description? This one change would definitely make the sneaky types think twice about using an active scanner. I've stopped carrying a scanner on most of my scout fits in order to carry uplinks again. I do use them on some of my logistics suits since I use it as more of a point defense suit and want to see what trouble is headed my way.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles 237	Posted - 2013.10.29 17:55:00 - [48] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: I want to get this off my chest. It's so blatantly obvious yet no ones says anything. The active scanner is over powered. Thank god I let that out... As for my reason? Well I did say it was obvious..and it is. It's a freaking blackbird from COD! Stronger than a UAV... I mean look at the damn thing! lol. I'm being completely serious here.. I mean yes I know that all you have to do is skill into dampening but cmon.. Like.. It really is OP as hell.. Anyone else? I can't be the only one... A module that gives you wall hacks? and you don't have to make some fancy program? No way can that be OP
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1563	Posted - 2013.10.29 17:59:00 - [49] - Quote I think it's only disadvantage is some people become dependent on it. They do need to remove the scan results stuff if someone beats it though. We won't tell you where he is but you know he's there somewhere! Check out & sub my youtube. Yay!
THE GREY CARDINAL PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 212	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:01:00 - [50] - Quote If you don't like the scanner, just wait until people are able to relay your frame size. Wait until people are able to scramble your minimap and switch off your squads voice comms. Electronic Warfare is just something people will have to learn to adapt to.

Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 353	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:10:00 - [51] - Quote Two things 1) Make active scanner users light up on enemy tacnet when they are used 2) Make the act of scanning as if you were ADS Problem Solved Below db 28
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1564	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:45:00 - [52] - Quote Lets be honest though, with enough equipment spam scanners become almost worthless since all you see are equipment markers. Check out & sub my youtube. Yay!
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 483	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:46:00 - [53] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Lets be honest though, with enough equipment spam scanners become almost worthless since all you see are equipment markers. So the true counter to scanners is not dampnening but logis with tons of equipment!
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1564	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:49:00 - [54] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Lets be honest though, with enough equipment spam scanners become almost worthless since all you see are equipment markers. So the true counter to scanners is not dampnening but logis with tons of equipment! Current gen tac-net scrambling system. Overload the tacnet. Check out & sub my youtube. Yay!
General John Ripper MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 11240	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:53:00 - [55] - Quote it is op. Level 5 Forum Warrior Prof 5 Founder of the Forum Warrior Club King of Tacos
mikegunnz The Solecism of Limitation 647	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:56:00 - [56] - Quote Idye Lotz wrote: mikegunnz wrote: Alternatively, I like the idea of making dampeners an equipment item. This would make it so ppl couldn't use high level scanners AND dampen themselves. (this is partly why it's OP, you can light up entire teams on minimap AND be a deadly ninja) This would also allow the logi-nerf (that some ppl want) to go thru, while giving the logi an advantage of being the only class that can both scan AND dampen. As a scout I say that is freakin' stupid. Isn't it bad enough I run around in the worst hp suit in the game now you are taking away one of the most effective ways to get kills. No, if you can't kill me with your massive hp suits then no, dampeners stay module. A better argument would be to make the dampeners an equipment slot like I suggested, and also reduce the scouts signature by another 3-5db. By keeping the current system in place, you're actually helping the assaults stay stealthy more than you are the scouts. (because there are a number of assaults with several low slots that can stack dampeners)
Mirataf WARRIORS 1NC 85	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:18:00 - [57] - Quote mikegunnz wrote: Idye Lotz wrote: mikegunnz wrote: Alternatively, I like the idea of making dampeners an equipment item. This would make it so ppl couldn't use high level scanners AND dampen themselves. (this is partly why it's OP, you can light up entire teams on minimap AND be a deadly ninja) This would also allow the logi-nerf (that some ppl want) to go thru, while giving the logi an advantage of being the only class that can both scan AND dampen. As a scout I say that is freakin' stupid. Isn't it bad enough I run around in the worst hp suit in the game now you are taking away one of the most effective ways to get kills. No, if you can't kill me with your massive hp suits then no, dampeners stay module. A better argument would be to make the dampeners an equipment slot like I suggested, and also reduce the scouts signature by another 3-5db. By keeping the current system in place, you're actually helping the assaults stay stealthy more than you are the scouts. (because there are a number of assaults with several low slots that can stack dampeners) I disagree, this enables the ability for logi's. To scan damp and have full tank. Scouts will need to have the 1 equipment slot to damp and be effective which means they are relying on an albeit buffed 16m passive range which doesn't pick up enough suits as it is. Good try but no where near the right balance.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2359	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:19:00 - [58] - Quote I run the ADV that lights folks up for 15-20 seconds and it's a bit OP in that I stay hidden when I do it. I don't know of any active detection equipment that doesn't give away its presence, so it baffles me that I can stay hidden when I use it. It removes any element of risk other than the fact that I can't have my gun out for the duration of the scan. It strikes me as odd an a touch OP that it also gives suit facing. I suppose you could come up with a lore reason, but it's a lot of information for every scanner to give you, especially for 20 seconds after I put it away. Adding the position of the scanner wouldn't just be an added risk, it would also introduce a bit of strategy. How about sending your scanner as bait such that you get the drop on any red suits hunting him down? I'm also in favor of reduced scan range when behind heavy cover. It would add a bit of strategy for sneaking up on someone.
Heimdallr69 Imperfect Bastards 1115	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:22:00 - [59] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: I want to get this off my chest. It's so blatantly obvious yet no ones says anything. The active scanner is over powered. Thank god I let that out... As for my reason? Well I did say it was obvious..and it is. It's a freaking blackbird from COD! Stronger than a UAV... I mean look at the damn thing! lol. I'm being completely serious here.. I mean yes I know that all you have to do is skill into dampening but cmon.. Like.. It really is OP as hell.. Anyone else? I can't be the only one... I'm sure you've had your share of hearing me ***** about it lol...
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3385	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:24:00 - [60] - Quote Disagreed. Active scanners has helped give scouts a purpose. And its not our fault that no assault player wants to spend skill points on profile dampening or gasp sacrifice some armor for further profile dampener. No, no, no! We can't ask them to make sacrifices! It's much easier to complain about it until it goes away! Amarr faithful, join PIE Inc, the oldest EVE/Dust Amarr loyal corporation! Amarr Victor!



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