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Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2610	Posted - 2013.10.23 18:44:00 - [1] - Quote Why are they NOT being removed? Does CCP really lack the balls to give a small amount of refunds to fix a core problem with the game?
Thor McStrut Reckoners 267	Posted - 2013.10.23 18:47:00 - [2] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Why are they NOT being removed? Does CCP really lack the balls to give a small amount of refunds to fix a core problem with the game? Because they are not game breaking. The game is just broken, and unfinished. BPOs will work just fine once industry, PvE, and the market are introduced.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3531	Posted - 2013.10.23 18:51:00 - [3] - Quote Yup I hope they take my BPO and make them EVE BPO which I have to produce for my corp on my Indy character.
ReGnYuM MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 1167	Posted - 2013.10.23 18:51:00 - [4] - Quote Thor McStrut wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Why are they NOT being removed? Does CCP really lack the balls to give a small amount of refunds to fix a core problem with the game? Because they are not game breaking. The game is just broken, and unfinished. BPOs will work just fine once industry, PvE, and the market are introduced. BPO'a are game breaking to the economy and the overall progression of Dust 514 as a whole. If you can't see this, then you're part of the problem
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2610	Posted - 2013.10.23 18:52:00 - [5] - Quote Thor McStrut wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Why are they NOT being removed? Does CCP really lack the balls to give a small amount of refunds to fix a core problem with the game? Because they are not game breaking. The game is just broken, and unfinished. BPOs will work just fine once industry, PvE, and the market are introduced. I didn't define them as gamebreaking, CCP did.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 7166	Posted - 2013.10.23 18:59:00 - [6] - Quote Oh noes, the enemy isn't paying for their militia gear
Michael Cratar Fenrir's Wolves DARKSTAR ARMY 256	Posted - 2013.10.23 19:32:00 - [7] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Thor McStrut wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Why are they NOT being removed? Does CCP really lack the balls to give a small amount of refunds to fix a core problem with the game? Because they are not game breaking. The game is just broken, and unfinished. BPOs will work just fine once industry, PvE, and the market are introduced. BPO'a are game breaking to the economy and the overall progression of Dust 514 as a whole. If you can't see this, then you're part of the problem YAY! ReGnYuM is back!
Maximus Stryker Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 658	Posted - 2013.10.23 19:33:00 - [8] - Quote Maximus Stryker wrote: I think BPOs are important to new characters and a decent way to generate some AUR sales for CCP. Thus, the simplest conclusion I can draw is to make BPOs Temporary Just like we have boosters for a day/week/month, buy a BPO for a day/week/month. Ex: Purchase an Exile assault rifle for 2000 AUR and get unlimited supply for 1 month Purchase an Exile assault rifle for 500 AUR and get unlimited supply for 1 week Purchase an Exile assault rifle for 100 AUR and get unlimited supply for 1 day Maybe you need to change the name of them if the name BPO implies "unlimited to infinity forever" but I can't think of a reason this wouldn't work. Has anyone mentioned this idea already? I haven't been following the issue. Thoughts?
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2108	Posted - 2013.10.23 19:34:00 - [9] - Quote It's because during closed beta BPOs were cheap as dirt so people had stocked up on them. If CCP were to give a refund then there would be people with over 500k aur while they only bought like 200k aur.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 280	Posted - 2013.10.23 19:46:00 - [10] - Quote Unless Dust players get to produce and sell items BPOs will have no real impact on the Dust economy, and any impact they have on the EVE economy would practically be eclipsed by the relative income rates of EvE over Dust.

Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division 153	Posted - 2013.10.23 19:48:00 - [11] - Quote Just make it so you have to pay for each copy taken from the original. Isk farm solved, and you can sell copies of your bpos for more than it costs. There we have it. Entrepreneurship in dust!
Takron Nistrom eHarmony Inc. 97	Posted - 2013.10.23 19:59:00 - [12] - Quote If SEE SEE PEE hadnt normalized gear and kept prices crazy, MLT gear wouldnt be an issue, but its cheap and it doesnt mean much. Get rid of normalized gear and MLT gear will go away.
Sgt Buttscratch R 0 N 1 N 926	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:03:00 - [13] - Quote there is no trade, therefore no economy.
IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 172	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:07:00 - [14] - Quote I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2324	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:18:00 - [15] - Quote Takron Nistrom wrote: If SEE SEE PEE hadnt normalized gear and kept prices crazy, MLT gear wouldnt be an issue, but its cheap and it doesnt mean much. Get rid of normalized gear and MLT gear will go away. This is the reason BPOs are an economic issue. In the past use would be time limited because a player who could skill into better gear would stop using the BPO. With diminished advantages of higher level gear and low TTK the MLT items are quite competitive. There is some advantage to the good stuff, but it's not worth the cost unless winning means a whole lot which isn't often. You could solve the economic problem by dramatically increasing the advantage of winning, or by returning to the old advantages of higher meta levels. If CCP continues with tiericide neither of these options will work.
Gorra Snell the unholy legion of darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY 194	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:20:00 - [16] - Quote Something doesn't have to 'perfectly fine' or 'gamebreaking'...there's space inbetween. The existence of BPOs messes with the economic cycle of the game, but since they kept them restricted to STD and MLT gear, they only mess with it a bit. Surely, there were internal discussions where they weighed their options, and decided that removing sources of new BPOs would be better for the future of the game's economy without causing undue drama in the current playerbase, while removing the existing ones from everyone's inventories would start an epic **storm. I, for one, have bought a number of merc packs based on the BPOs included in them. Though it's almost certainly within their legal right to take those away, I would be pretty **** irritated, and might stop playing. I get why they want to cut off the source, though, and I'm fine with that. I suspect a lot of players see things from a similar perspective.
ReGnYuM MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 1171	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:21:00 - [17] - Quote IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear. Heres the problem. People would rather make money endlessly grinding pubs in free suits. Rather than pushing themselves to go into PC and actually develop how the game intended. Highsec should not be profitable BPO's make Highsex profitable
Takron Nistrom eHarmony Inc. 97	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:21:00 - [18] - Quote Skihids wrote: Takron Nistrom wrote: If SEE SEE PEE hadnt normalized gear and kept prices crazy, MLT gear wouldnt be an issue, but its cheap and it doesnt mean much. Get rid of normalized gear and MLT gear will go away. This is the reason BPOs are an economic issue. In the past use would be time limited because a player who could skill into better gear would stop using the BPO. With diminished advantages of higher level gear and low TTK the MLT items are quite competitive. There is some advantage to the good stuff, but it's not worth the cost unless winning means a whole lot which isn't often. You could solve the economic problem by dramatically increasing the advantage of winning, or by returning to the old advantages of higher meta levels. If CCP continues with tiericide neither of these options will work. Agreed
Rowdy Railgunner TRUE TEA BAGGERS EoN. 76	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:23:00 - [19] - Quote You do gotta love the push to get people to buy all of the BPOs before they took them off the market, just to threaten us with their removal a week later. Signs of a game going places.
Takron Nistrom eHarmony Inc. 97	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:24:00 - [20] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear. Heres the problem. People would rather make money endlessly grinding pubs in free suits. Rather than pushing themselves to go into PC and actually develop how the game intended. Highsec should not be profitable BPO's make Highsex profitable Or wat about this. Make how much isk u make be totally reliant on the gear u field and how well u do as an individual. Field high end gear, get paid more.

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 7172	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:25:00 - [21] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear. Heres the problem. People would rather make money endlessly grinding pubs in free suits. Rather than pushing themselves to go into PC and actually develop how the game intended. Highsec should not be profitable BPO's make Highsex profitable My most used all BPO suit costs me 3,125 ISK if I payed for it If you can't make a profit running that then you seriously need to reconsider your choice of game... (not you, just people in general) The only BPO doing any damage right now would be the LAV BPOs. Other than that....what's a couple thousand ISK between friends?
Maximus Stryker Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 659	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:25:00 - [22] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear. Heres the problem. People would rather make money endlessly grinding pubs in free suits. Rather than pushing themselves to go into PC and actually develop how the game intended. Highsec should not be profitable BPO's make Highsex profitable I agree with most of what you say but disagree with the underlined
ReGnYuM MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 1171	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:27:00 - [23] - Quote Takron Nistrom wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear. Heres the problem. People would rather make money endlessly grinding pubs in free suits. Rather than pushing themselves to go into PC and actually develop how the game intended. Highsec should not be profitable BPO's make Highsex profitable Or wat about this. Make how much isk u make be totally reliant on the gear u field and how well u do as an individual. Field high end gear, get paid more. Players should be gravitating toward PC and FW for high ISK rewards.
Takron Nistrom eHarmony Inc. 97	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:27:00 - [24] - Quote Maximus Stryker wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear. Heres the problem. People would rather make money endlessly grinding pubs in free suits. Rather than pushing themselves to go into PC and actually develop how the game intended. Highsec should not be profitable BPO's make Highsex profitable I agree with most of what you say but disagree with the underlined It is very hard to make money in empire, as it should be.
IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 172	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:39:00 - [25] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear. Heres the problem. People would rather make money endlessly grinding pubs in free suits. Rather than pushing themselves to go into PC and actually develop how the game intended. Highsec should not be profitable BPO's make Highsex profitable My most used all BPO suit costs me 3,125 ISK if I payed for it If you can't make a profit running that then you seriously need to reconsider your choice of game... (not you, just people in general) The only BPO doing any damage right now would be the LAV BPOs. Other than that....what's a couple thousand ISK between friends? This ^^^ For example lets say I make 180,000 isk a game. I die 5 times with a all BPO crap suit and make 180,000 isk profit totally see where you're going with that Reg and it not promoting higher level game play, but if die 5 times in the same crap isk equivalent suit I spend 20,000 isk and make only 160,000 isk profit, is that extra 20,000 isk profit a game breaker. In both examples I'm using cheap crap and mining it to maximize profit, the removal of the BPO does nothing to change the behavior that you don't like, the only difference is one guy spent $20 to make a measly extra 20,000 isk. Removing the BPO will do nothing to change that behavior people will still use cheap crap, there are players that play an emergent style that only has to do with isk spent on their gear compared to what they destory that is not going to change. The only difference is they will not have an option to spend realy money to save chump change in fake money anymore.
Caeli SineDeo Imperfects Negative-Feedback 713	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:40:00 - [26] - Quote Simple Fix turn all BPOs into paint jobs. Bang people go back to buying suits. Then on their fit they can select the paint job they want to run. If it is a caldari assault BPO it should switch so millitant to proto gain the paint job. I do not think many people would mind this. Probably even enjoy this because they can show off the cool looks on their proto gear. I know many of us told CCP BPOs where a bad idea when they first came out. Love how a year later they finally relize it.
Rowdy Railgunner TRUE TEA BAGGERS EoN. 77	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:49:00 - [27] - Quote CCP would have to refund me cold hard cash if they removed BPOs.
ThePrinceOfNigeria Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 126	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:58:00 - [28] - Quote So BPO's are considered game breaking to the economy? Calling bullshit on that. You are what saving 600 ISK a pop? Also, they are the equivalent of Standard or Militia gear. Hardly overpowered. So somehow saving a couple thousand ISK a match is going to ruin the economy? If this is the case the economy for this game is going to be god awful and I want no part of it.
ThePrinceOfNigeria Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 127	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:02:00 - [29] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear. Heres the problem. People would rather make money endlessly grinding pubs in free suits. Rather than pushing themselves to go into PC and actually develop how the game intended. Highsec should not be profitable BPO's make Highsex profitable And yet Highsec in EVE Online is highly profitable... so there goes that theory.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2110	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:03:00 - [30] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: CCP would have to refund me cold hard cash if they removed BPOs. Sony doesn't allow refunds beyond PSN cash.

ResistanceGTA Valor Tactical Operations Immortal Coalition of New-Eden 31	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:03:00 - [31] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Takron Nistrom wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear. Heres the problem. People would rather make money endlessly grinding pubs in free suits. Rather than pushing themselves to go into PC and actually develop how the game intended. Highsec should not be profitable BPO's make Highsex profitable Or wat about this. Make how much isk u make be totally reliant on the gear u field and how well u do as an individual. Field high end gear, get paid more. Players should be gravitating toward PC and FW for high ISK rewards. Aren't we removing actual isk rewards from FW? Yea, factional stuff to sell blah blah two years later... So, PC should be the only way to make money? Isn't PC supposed to be an isk sink? Just like FW will be for smaller corps/loners?
Rowdy Railgunner TRUE TEA BAGGERS EoN. 77	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:06:00 - [32] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Rowdy Railgunner wrote: CCP would have to refund me cold hard cash if they removed BPOs. Sony doesn't allow refunds beyond PSN cash. Well then CCP can't remove BPOs. Problem solved.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3537	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:10:00 - [33] - Quote Caeli SineDeo wrote: Simple Fix turn all BPOs into paint jobs. Bang people go back to buying suits. Then on their fit they can select the paint job they want to run. If it is a caldari assault BPO it should switch so millitant to proto gain the paint job. I do not think many people would mind this. Probably even enjoy this because they can show off the cool looks on their proto gear. I know many of us told CCP BPOs where a bad idea when they first came out. Love how a year later they finally relize it. OR.... make them EVE BPO which have to be produced.... that would make a **** ton more sense.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 7176	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:11:00 - [34] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Caeli SineDeo wrote: Simple Fix turn all BPOs into paint jobs. Bang people go back to buying suits. Then on their fit they can select the paint job they want to run. If it is a caldari assault BPO it should switch so millitant to proto gain the paint job. I do not think many people would mind this. Probably even enjoy this because they can show off the cool looks on their proto gear. I know many of us told CCP BPOs where a bad idea when they first came out. Love how a year later they finally relize it. OR.... make them EVE BPO which have to be produced.... that would make a **** ton more sense. So what happens to DUST players who don't play EVE but purchased BPOs?
ThePrinceOfNigeria Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 127	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:13:00 - [35] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Caeli SineDeo wrote: Simple Fix turn all BPOs into paint jobs. Bang people go back to buying suits. Then on their fit they can select the paint job they want to run. If it is a caldari assault BPO it should switch so millitant to proto gain the paint job. I do not think many people would mind this. Probably even enjoy this because they can show off the cool looks on their proto gear. I know many of us told CCP BPOs where a bad idea when they first came out. Love how a year later they finally relize it. OR.... make them EVE BPO which have to be produced.... that would make a **** ton more sense. ^This! Make BPOs exactly like EVE so they have a cost, just a significantly reduced one vs the market.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3540	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:19:00 - [36] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: True Adamance wrote: Caeli SineDeo wrote: Simple Fix turn all BPOs into paint jobs. Bang people go back to buying suits. Then on their fit they can select the paint job they want to run. If it is a caldari assault BPO it should switch so millitant to proto gain the paint job. I do not think many people would mind this. Probably even enjoy this because they can show off the cool looks on their proto gear. I know many of us told CCP BPOs where a bad idea when they first came out. Love how a year later they finally relize it. OR.... make them EVE BPO which have to be produced.... that would make a **** ton more sense. So what happens to DUST players who don't play EVE but purchased BPOs? Go get an EVE friend, that's half of what this game is about. Or you could contract the BPO out, using an implemented contracts system to get an indy player to produce it for you.
Kovinis Sparagas Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 66	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:20:00 - [37] - Quote I agree- remove BPO until you make them as they are in EVE
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 7178	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:20:00 - [38] - Quote True Adamance wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: True Adamance wrote: Caeli SineDeo wrote: Simple Fix turn all BPOs into paint jobs. Bang people go back to buying suits. Then on their fit they can select the paint job they want to run. If it is a caldari assault BPO it should switch so millitant to proto gain the paint job. I do not think many people would mind this. Probably even enjoy this because they can show off the cool looks on their proto gear. I know many of us told CCP BPOs where a bad idea when they first came out. Love how a year later they finally relize it. OR.... make them EVE BPO which have to be produced.... that would make a **** ton more sense. So what happens to DUST players who don't play EVE but purchased BPOs? Go get an EVE friend, that's half of what this game is about. Or you could contract the BPO out, using an implemented contracts system to get an indy player to produce it for you. All because people are upset about someone getting militia gear for free I could buy 1000 of all my militia fits in just a few hours and it would be exactly the same as buying a BPO.
Thor McStrut Reckoners 267	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:24:00 - [39] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Thor McStrut wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Why are they NOT being removed? Does CCP really lack the balls to give a small amount of refunds to fix a core problem with the game? Because they are not game breaking. The game is just broken, and unfinished. BPOs will work just fine once industry, PvE, and the market are introduced. I didn't define them as gamebreaking, CCP did. I know. They say gamebreaking, but they really mean wallet breaking. People aren't buying enough Aurum to purchase their crap militia suits. It's hardly gamebreaking. With the isk removal from Faction Warfare, BPOs are going to be the only thing keeping it alive until the player market opens and Faction gear is worth using. Edit: Not to mention that they just released their $$$ Anniversary Edition boxed set.... That contains...................................... ******* BPOs!!
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3540	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:24:00 - [40] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: True Adamance wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: True Adamance wrote: Caeli SineDeo wrote: Simple Fix turn all BPOs into paint jobs. Bang people go back to buying suits. Then on their fit they can select the paint job they want to run. If it is a caldari assault BPO it should switch so millitant to proto gain the paint job. I do not think many people would mind this. Probably even enjoy this because they can show off the cool looks on their proto gear. I know many of us told CCP BPOs where a bad idea when they first came out. Love how a year later they finally relize it. OR.... make them EVE BPO which have to be produced.... that would make a **** ton more sense. So what happens to DUST players who don't play EVE but purchased BPOs? Go get an EVE friend, that's half of what this game is about. Or you could contract the BPO out, using an implemented contracts system to get an indy player to produce it for you. All because people are upset about someone getting militia gear for free I could buy 1000 of all my militia fits in just a couple matches and it would be exactly the same as buying a BPO. I don't care either way, but at some point BPO will need to have consumable and purchasable materials or they will unbalance the economy. If Industry was in merc hands that would be fine. Its not, so we suck it up and deal with it.

Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1060	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:27:00 - [41] - Quote 'Sever' Logi or GTFO
ThePrinceOfNigeria Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 128	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:28:00 - [42] - Quote Thor McStrut wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Thor McStrut wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Why are they NOT being removed? Does CCP really lack the balls to give a small amount of refunds to fix a core problem with the game? Because they are not game breaking. The game is just broken, and unfinished. BPOs will work just fine once industry, PvE, and the market are introduced. I didn't define them as gamebreaking, CCP did. I know. They say gamebreaking, but they really mean wallet breaking. People aren't buying enough Aurum to purchase their crap militia suits. It's hardly gamebreaking. With the isk removal from Faction Warfare, BPOs are going to be the only thing keeping it alive until the player market opens and Faction gear is worth using. I don't know what they expect. CCP is completely brain dead stupid when it comes to the F2P elements of their game and what should and shouldn't be paid for with real currency. Cosmetic stuff is #1 selling in all F2P games and yet it is non-existent here. Some games exist with selling ONLY cosmetic items. I know I would drop money for AUR for cosmetic items. As it is the ONLY thing worth real world money is boosters and BPOs. Most BPOs were just removed so that shortens the list considerably on what i'm willing to part with real currency for.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2611	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:30:00 - [43] - Quote Here's another tidbit for those who say "do it the EVE way" ... CCP is actually trying to phase that out. New modules, for example, are released through controlled drops of BPC. They are still pushing this with the goal of taking back control of the economy/making the AUR store contain more temporary power ups, even after burn jita. So I would not bet on the EVE structure coming to DUST, since CCP doesn't like it in EVE already.
Thor McStrut Reckoners 267	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:51:00 - [44] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Here's another tidbit for those who say "do it the EVE way" ... CCP is actually trying to phase that out. New modules, for example, are released through controlled drops of BPC. They are still pushing this with the goal of taking back control of the economy/making the AUR store contain more temporary power ups, even after burn jita. So I would not bet on the EVE structure coming to DUST, since CCP doesn't like it in EVE already. I agree that CCP seems incapable of understanding what people want to spend money on. But BPCs are still manufacturable in Eve, just limited run. They could impose a weekly resetting limit on our current BPOs in Dust. There are reasonable ways to subtly change it without ripping us off.
Rowdy Railgunner TRUE TEA BAGGERS EoN. 77	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:04:00 - [45] - Quote Thor McStrut wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Here's another tidbit for those who say "do it the EVE way" ... CCP is actually trying to phase that out. New modules, for example, are released through controlled drops of BPC. They are still pushing this with the goal of taking back control of the economy/making the AUR store contain more temporary power ups, even after burn jita. So I would not bet on the EVE structure coming to DUST, since CCP doesn't like it in EVE already. I agree that CCP seems incapable of understanding what people want to spend money on. But BPCs are still manufacturable in Eve, just limited run. They could impose a weekly resetting limit on our current BPOs in Dust. There are reasonable ways to subtly change it without ripping us off. No there isn't. Any change to BPOs now is a slap in the face to customers. CCP Frame wrote: So donGÇÖt forget to take advantage of the in-game market now to secure items that you may need before they are gone from the in-game store! https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=112962&find=unread This is why I wrote the Nerf BPOs thread is this is why CCP keeps getting worse and worse. They tell you one thing then instantly change it. If it was related to in game SP ISK related gear, yeah sure change it. But when you purposefully lead the customer on and then try to switch the product after the sale. Well there are laws against that.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2114	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:06:00 - [46] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Rowdy Railgunner wrote: CCP would have to refund me cold hard cash if they removed BPOs. Sony doesn't allow refunds beyond PSN cash. Well then CCP can't remove BPOs. Problem solved. They can but they probably won't.
Mortedeamor Internal Rebellion 506	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:08:00 - [47] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: It's because during closed beta BPOs were cheap as dirt so people had stocked up on them. If CCP were to give a refund then there would be people with over 500k aur while they only bought like 200k aur. this is actually wrong on the transition from closed beta to open in January all bpo's were refunded at new market prices..if you wanted to keep your bpo you then bought it back..if not then u made a bunch of aur... the increase in aur because of bpo conversion and price increase has already occurred it did so in mid january..i personally had loads of duplicates of bpo's and bought 1 copy of each back and made about triple aur when that happened 30 aur to 1200 aur to 19800 aur or something like that
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2114	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:08:00 - [48] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: Thor McStrut wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Here's another tidbit for those who say "do it the EVE way" ... CCP is actually trying to phase that out. New modules, for example, are released through controlled drops of BPC. They are still pushing this with the goal of taking back control of the economy/making the AUR store contain more temporary power ups, even after burn jita. So I would not bet on the EVE structure coming to DUST, since CCP doesn't like it in EVE already. I agree that CCP seems incapable of understanding what people want to spend money on. But BPCs are still manufacturable in Eve, just limited run. They could impose a weekly resetting limit on our current BPOs in Dust. There are reasonable ways to subtly change it without ripping us off. No there isn't. Any change to BPOs now is a slap in the face to customers. CCP Frame wrote: So donGÇÖt forget to take advantage of the in-game market now to secure items that you may need before they are gone from the in-game store! https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=112962&find=unread This is why I wrote the Nerf BPOs thread is this is why CCP keeps getting worse and worse. They tell you one thing then instantly change it. If it was related to in game SP ISK related gear, yeah sure change it. But when you purposefully lead the customer on and then try to switch the product after the sale. Well there are laws against that. They said they were removing them from the market. They gave all of their customers a fair chance to get the BPOs. Also CCPs EULA protects them from lawsuits concerning changes to real money products.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2114	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:10:00 - [49] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: It's because during closed beta BPOs were cheap as dirt so people had stocked up on them. If CCP were to give a refund then there would be people with over 500k aur while they only bought like 200k aur. this is actually wrong on the transition from closed beta to open in January all bpo's were refunded at new market prices..if you wanted to keep your bpo you then bought it back..if not then u made a bunch of aur... the increase in aur because of bpo conversion and price increase has already occurred it did so in mid january..i personally had loads of duplicates of bpo's and bought 1 copy of each back and made about triple aur when that happened 30 aur to 1200 aur to 19800 aur or something like that I think the price change happened in open beta then. Somewhere in January but it did happen.
Thor McStrut Reckoners 267	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:12:00 - [50] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: Thor McStrut wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Here's another tidbit for those who say "do it the EVE way" ... CCP is actually trying to phase that out. New modules, for example, are released through controlled drops of BPC. They are still pushing this with the goal of taking back control of the economy/making the AUR store contain more temporary power ups, even after burn jita. So I would not bet on the EVE structure coming to DUST, since CCP doesn't like it in EVE already. I agree that CCP seems incapable of understanding what people want to spend money on. But BPCs are still manufacturable in Eve, just limited run. They could impose a weekly resetting limit on our current BPOs in Dust. There are reasonable ways to subtly change it without ripping us off. No there isn't. Any change to BPOs now is a slap in the face to customers. CCP Frame wrote: So donGÇÖt forget to take advantage of the in-game market now to secure items that you may need before they are gone from the in-game store! https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=112962&find=unread This is why I wrote the Nerf BPOs thread is this is why CCP keeps getting worse and worse. They tell you one thing then instantly change it. If it was related to in game SP ISK related gear, yeah sure change it. But when you purposefully lead the customer on and then try to switch the product after the sale. Well there are laws against that. And they used to advertise Ghost Training in Eve as a Feature. Then, when they realized it was hitting them in the wallet, they back-peddled, and called it an Unintentional Bug that was getting fixed. I'm not saying I disagree with you, but I'm saying that they will do what they think best for their bottom line. If we as players could at least force a compromise, to limit our loss, then that will be the best for all of us.

IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 172	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:13:00 - [51] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: It's because during closed beta BPOs were cheap as dirt so people had stocked up on them. If CCP were to give a refund then there would be people with over 500k aur while they only bought like 200k aur. this is actually wrong on the transition from closed beta to open in January all bpo's were refunded at new market prices..if you wanted to keep your bpo you then bought it back..if not then u made a bunch of aur... the increase in aur because of bpo conversion and price increase has already occurred it did so in mid january..i personally had loads of duplicates of bpo's and bought 1 copy of each back and made about triple aur when that happened 30 aur to 1200 aur to 19800 aur or something like that Actually that is not true they didn't refund any BPO items in january for that exact reason. I'm still sitting on the BPO modules I bought in 2012 none were refunded when all the other assets were, if they do refund AUR spent on BPO items at current values I'll turn an AUR profit to the tune of $500 real dollars.
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 775	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:20:00 - [52] - Quote As someone who runs BPOs regularly and almost exclusively in pubs I only save aroud 50k a match in ISK. All the equipment is either standard or militia stat wise. As for BPOs that require less skill, they are no different from Aur standard equipment except that they are unlimited. I payed a lot of real money for an unlimited standard suit as opposed to paying a lot of real money for a bunch of limited standard suits. Either way the there are two economies, the AUR one and ISK one and in theory BPOs are part of the Aur one which fund this game. If you think it's unfair than find a better way for this game to make money.
Rowdy Railgunner TRUE TEA BAGGERS EoN. 77	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:23:00 - [53] - Quote Thor McStrut wrote: And they used to advertise Ghost Training in Eve as a Feature. Then, when they realized it was hitting them in the wallet, they back-peddled, and called it an Unintentional Bug that was getting fixed. I'm not saying I disagree with you, but I'm saying that they will do what they think best for their bottom line. If we as players could at least force a compromise, to limit our loss, then that will be the best for all of us. Then CCP just straight up lies to their customers. Why would they allow that post if they knew that in less than a month later they were going to say BPOs where going to go away. And why would they use the fact that the 10 yr CE came with BPOs for DUST? That would mean it was lie, and could be punishable because it can be argued that it caused damages. Would I have payed real money to get the BPOs that they were pushing because of them being removed from the market, if I knew that under a month later they were going to announce that they were thinking of getting rid of them? No, so right there that causes me distress. Either way lying as a company is far worse for a bottom line than a few BPOs are.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2114	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:25:00 - [54] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: Thor McStrut wrote: And they used to advertise Ghost Training in Eve as a Feature. Then, when they realized it was hitting them in the wallet, they back-peddled, and called it an Unintentional Bug that was getting fixed. I'm not saying I disagree with you, but I'm saying that they will do what they think best for their bottom line. If we as players could at least force a compromise, to limit our loss, then that will be the best for all of us. Then CCP just straight up lies to their customers. Why would they allow that post if they knew that in less than a month later they were going to say BPOs where going to go away. And why would they use the fact that the 10 yr CE came with BPOs for DUST? That would mean it was lie, and could be punishable because it can be argued that it caused damages. Would I have payed real money to get the BPOs that they were pushing because of them being removed from the market, if I knew that under a month later they were going to announce that they were thinking of getting rid of them? No, so right there that causes me distress. Either way lying as a company is far worse for a bottom line than a few BPOs are. You really should read dust's and Sonys EULA.
Rowdy Railgunner TRUE TEA BAGGERS EoN. 77	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:26:00 - [55] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Rowdy Railgunner wrote: Thor McStrut wrote: And they used to advertise Ghost Training in Eve as a Feature. Then, when they realized it was hitting them in the wallet, they back-peddled, and called it an Unintentional Bug that was getting fixed. I'm not saying I disagree with you, but I'm saying that they will do what they think best for their bottom line. If we as players could at least force a compromise, to limit our loss, then that will be the best for all of us. Then CCP just straight up lies to their customers. Why would they allow that post if they knew that in less than a month later they were going to say BPOs where going to go away. And why would they use the fact that the 10 yr CE came with BPOs for DUST? That would mean it was lie, and could be punishable because it can be argued that it caused damages. Would I have payed real money to get the BPOs that they were pushing because of them being removed from the market, if I knew that under a month later they were going to announce that they were thinking of getting rid of them? No, so right there that causes me distress. Either way lying as a company is far worse for a bottom line than a few BPOs are. You really should read dust's and Sonys EULA. And you should read about some cases where companies purposefully mislead customers.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2115	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:38:00 - [56] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Rowdy Railgunner wrote: Thor McStrut wrote: And they used to advertise Ghost Training in Eve as a Feature. Then, when they realized it was hitting them in the wallet, they back-peddled, and called it an Unintentional Bug that was getting fixed. I'm not saying I disagree with you, but I'm saying that they will do what they think best for their bottom line. If we as players could at least force a compromise, to limit our loss, then that will be the best for all of us. Then CCP just straight up lies to their customers. Why would they allow that post if they knew that in less than a month later they were going to say BPOs where going to go away. And why would they use the fact that the 10 yr CE came with BPOs for DUST? That would mean it was lie, and could be punishable because it can be argued that it caused damages. Would I have payed real money to get the BPOs that they were pushing because of them being removed from the market, if I knew that under a month later they were going to announce that they were thinking of getting rid of them? No, so right there that causes me distress. Either way lying as a company is far worse for a bottom line than a few BPOs are. You really should read dust's and Sonys EULA. And you should read about some cases where companies purposefully mislead customers. How about instead of ignoring me go read something in which you signed blindly like an idiot. Also you should look up some of the cases against sony (None of them were successful even though they had very valid reason in doing so. You know what fked them over? Their EULA which they signed blindly too)
Forlorn Destrier Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2141	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:40:00 - [57] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Why are they NOT being removed? Does CCP really lack the balls to give a small amount of refunds to fix a core problem with the game? What is wrong is the purpose of BPO's. Once (if) crafting is available in Dust, BPO's should be just like they are in Eve - a mold to make the suit - and the suit itself is consumable. This way, people can make thier own stuff at a lower cost than buying it from the market if they want.
Thor McStrut Reckoners 268	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:46:00 - [58] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Rowdy Railgunner wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Rowdy Railgunner wrote: Thor McStrut wrote: And they used to advertise Ghost Training in Eve as a Feature. Then, when they realized it was hitting them in the wallet, they back-peddled, and called it an Unintentional Bug that was getting fixed. I'm not saying I disagree with you, but I'm saying that they will do what they think best for their bottom line. If we as players could at least force a compromise, to limit our loss, then that will be the best for all of us. Then CCP just straight up lies to their customers. Why would they allow that post if they knew that in less than a month later they were going to say BPOs where going to go away. And why would they use the fact that the 10 yr CE came with BPOs for DUST? That would mean it was lie, and could be punishable because it can be argued that it caused damages. Would I have payed real money to get the BPOs that they were pushing because of them being removed from the market, if I knew that under a month later they were going to announce that they were thinking of getting rid of them? No, so right there that causes me distress. Either way lying as a company is far worse for a bottom line than a few BPOs are. You really should read dust's and Sonys EULA. And you should read about some cases where companies purposefully mislead customers. How about instead of ignoring me go read something in which you signed blindly like an idiot. Also you should look up some of the cases against sony (None of them were successful even though they had very valid reason in doing so. You know what fked them over? Their EULA which they signed blindly too) The problem here is that if you want to play, you have to accept it. And by doing so, you are giving up some of your consumer rights. There have been cases where EULAs have been deemed illegal, and parts of them were overturned in the courts, but that usually takes money. Money most of us don't have and can't afford, cus we are blowing it on digital crap in video games. Is it fair? Probably not, but it's a risk that CCP is obviously willing to take. What happens when CCP decides Dust is no longer viable, and closes the connection? We all lose it all. I guarantee we won't be getting refunds then either.
Rowdy Railgunner TRUE TEA BAGGERS EoN. 77	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:51:00 - [59] - Quote My beef is about the deceptive practices, not the actual items. You can't EULA away lying to your customers when real money is involved. If CCP knew that they were going to announce they want to get rid of BPOs, then don't scam people into buying them right before you announce that. And don't expect people to be fine with it either when you do.
IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 172	Posted - 2013.10.23 23:05:00 - [60] - Quote RR is correct it is not ethical to conduct business that way, and before all of the eve-tards come out of the wood work think for a moment is that the same CCP you want to defend to the end. I postulate that CCP is an amazing developer that has made what I've been told an amazing game in EVE. My own experience in DUST for the last 18 months is one of seeing a developer in way over their head and floundering and about 6 months from failcascadding on this project. CCP Shenghai/DUST does not equal CCP Iceland/EVE, nothing about the one has translated to the other, in essence the credibility of EVE carries zero weight at this time in regard to DUST. You may as well be talking about World of Darkness. There are some very creative cool people at CCP that have come up with some great ideas in their goals for DUST, getting a crew of people a world away to develop those ideas is not panning out. Unfortunately this game should have been kept under wraps until now, today would have been a great starting point for the closed beta. These actions and the constant 3 steps forwards 2 steps back are not a good trend. I want this game to succed I've invested more time in my life and $ than any other media or game. I'm also capable of being pragmatic and calling the quacking bird a duck.

Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2116	Posted - 2013.10.23 23:15:00 - [61] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: My beef is about the deceptive practices, not the actual items. You can't EULA away lying to your customers when real money is involved. If CCP knew that they were going to announce they want to get rid of BPOs, then don't scam people into buying them right before you announce that. And don't expect people to be fine with it either when you do. Everyone knew once the open market came that the BPOs would change. Also the reason why BPOs were taken off with little notice is because of the new EP which promised to get the open market up ASAP. It's not like CCP is doing this to fk you over. They're doing this so they can finally get this game where it was supposed to be months ago. Oh and BPOs are coming back just in a different way (Probably more like how EVEs BPOs work.
Rowdy Railgunner TRUE TEA BAGGERS EoN. 78	Posted - 2013.10.23 23:21:00 - [62] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Rowdy Railgunner wrote: My beef is about the deceptive practices, not the actual items. You can't EULA away lying to your customers when real money is involved. If CCP knew that they were going to announce they want to get rid of BPOs, then don't scam people into buying them right before you announce that. And don't expect people to be fine with it either when you do. Everyone knew once the open market came that the BPOs would change. Also the reason why BPOs were taken off with little notice is because of the new EP which promised to get the open market up ASAP. It's not like CCP is doing this to fk you over. They're doing this so they can finally get this game where it was supposed to be months ago. Oh and BPOs are coming back just in a different way (Probably more like how EVEs BPOs work. Then don't tell your customers to buy these items today, while withholding the fact that you are going to be removing them tomorrow. Do you see my point, or are you arguing against me just because you don't like me?
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2120	Posted - 2013.10.23 23:43:00 - [63] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Rowdy Railgunner wrote: My beef is about the deceptive practices, not the actual items. You can't EULA away lying to your customers when real money is involved. If CCP knew that they were going to announce they want to get rid of BPOs, then don't scam people into buying them right before you announce that. And don't expect people to be fine with it either when you do. Everyone knew once the open market came that the BPOs would change. Also the reason why BPOs were taken off with little notice is because of the new EP which promised to get the open market up ASAP. It's not like CCP is doing this to fk you over. They're doing this so they can finally get this game where it was supposed to be months ago. Oh and BPOs are coming back just in a different way (Probably more like how EVEs BPOs work. Then don't tell your customers to buy these items today, while withholding the fact that you are going to be removing them tomorrow. Do you see my point, or are you arguing against me just because you don't like me? 1. This is the first time I've seen you so I really don't have an opinion of you yet 2. CCP probably didn't think that the open market was coming any time soon. The new EP was just hired a little over a month ago. Also they gave you a months notice that the BPOs were going to be removed from the market temporarily.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 747	Posted - 2013.10.24 00:20:00 - [64] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Why are they NOT being removed? Does CCP really lack the balls to give a small amount of refunds to fix a core problem with the game? maybe you should be watching more ccp videos and making less qq threads.
ladwar Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 1910	Posted - 2013.10.24 00:22:00 - [65] - Quote Thor McStrut wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Why are they NOT being removed? Does CCP really lack the balls to give a small amount of refunds to fix a core problem with the game? Because they are not game breaking. The game is just broken, and unfinished. BPOs will work just fine once industry, PvE, and the market are introduced. the game is broke, badly. did the bf4 beta and had less issues. toke a 2 week break and wow.. i realize how much is really broken. dust still is very beta.
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 75	Posted - 2013.10.24 00:24:00 - [66] - Quote Until BPOs cover the advanced or proto level gear and compete for top ranking by simply showing up and throwing clones at the enemy until victory, they are not game breaking. The only aspect which really changes the dynamic vs f2p players is that they are untraceable, which is a problem. If ccp would of let the bpo situation resolve itself it would of through trading, and also generated them more revenue. All I see is a bunch of free to play whiners.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2121	Posted - 2013.10.24 01:10:00 - [67] - Quote Slag Emberforge wrote: Until BPOs cover the advanced or proto level gear and compete for top ranking by simply showing up and throwing clones at the enemy until victory, they are not game breaking. The only aspect which really changes the dynamic vs f2p players is that they are untraceable, which is a problem. If ccp would of let the bpo situation resolve itself it would of through trading, and also generated them more revenue. All I see is a bunch of free to play whiners. I'm not claiming to be an economist but I do know that free items in any economy hurts it. Whether it's small or big it still has a bad effect on the economy. In which if there was even the slightest chance of hurting the economy I doubt CCP would risk it because it could ruin EVE since the economy is one of the biggest selling points of EVE.
KGB Sleep Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 338	Posted - 2013.10.24 01:41:00 - [68] - Quote They will never get rid of the BPOs people bought. They will simply "balance" the stats until they are undesirable.
KA24DERT Pure Innocence. EoN. 174	Posted - 2013.10.24 01:59:00 - [69] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Rowdy Railgunner wrote: My beef is about the deceptive practices, not the actual items. You can't EULA away lying to your customers when real money is involved. If CCP knew that they were going to announce they want to get rid of BPOs, then don't scam people into buying them right before you announce that. And don't expect people to be fine with it either when you do. Everyone knew once the open market came that the BPOs would change. Also the reason why BPOs were taken off with little notice is because of the new EP which promised to get the open market up ASAP. It's not like CCP is doing this to fk you over. They're doing this so they can finally get this game where it was supposed to be months ago. Oh and BPOs are coming back just in a different way (Probably more like how EVEs BPOs work. This guy gets it.
Kaze Eyrou Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 381	Posted - 2013.10.24 06:02:00 - [70] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Thor McStrut wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Why are they NOT being removed? Does CCP really lack the balls to give a small amount of refunds to fix a core problem with the game? Because they are not game breaking. The game is just broken, and unfinished. BPOs will work just fine once industry, PvE, and the market are introduced. I didn't define them as gamebreaking, CCP did. They said they aren't working as intended. "Not working as intended" =/= "game breaking" (all the time) But going on your theory, how are they gamebreaking?

Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1552	Posted - 2013.10.24 06:52:00 - [71] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear. Heres the problem. People would rather make money endlessly grinding pubs in free suits. Rather than pushing themselves to go into PC and actually develop how the game intended. Highsec should not be profitable BPO's make Highsex profitable Highsec should have a lower PROFIT MARGIN not profit, it should take much more time, PC is not stated as any intent... I like PC and you like PC but joe shmo might not...
Borne Velvalor Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 797	Posted - 2013.10.24 07:03:00 - [72] - Quote KGB Sleep wrote: They will never get rid of the BPOs people bought. They will simply "balance" the stats until they are undesirable. The "stats" are identical to militia and standard gear, which sucks and is already cheap as dirt. If someone can "farm" ISK in free starter fits or BPOs it's because they die so much that using standard gear would cut into their winnings. I wear standard all day long and only die around 4 times in an Ambush. I don't think making an extra 40k when I'm pulling in 140k after costs is game breaking when BPOs have to be paid for. Either you would pay a ton of ISK on the market in the future and never make your money back, or pay AUR. If you use AUR, they are no worse than the boosters. Really not seeing a problem here. Make them cost resources when industry debuts. They are terrible investments, anyway.
medomai grey WarRavens League of Infamy 279	Posted - 2013.10.24 07:03:00 - [73] - Quote Takron Nistrom wrote: Or wat about this. Make how much isk u make be totally reliant on the gear u field and how well u do as an individual. Field high end gear, get paid more. This is a bad idea for so many reasons. Do you want to make proto-stomping sustainable?
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 259	Posted - 2013.10.24 08:11:00 - [74] - Quote Making current BPO's to eve BPO's would be a really stupid move. First off not every dust player is interested into eve and that would render it 100% worthless. Espacially cause i assume that on eve the BPO's will probs be thrown out of the window from NPC's for the regular low price. CCP has to think twice what they do about the BPO's. When they start removing them from player assets without compensating the last known AUR value then players will report CCP for scam/theft to various gaming sites/magazines and the reputation of the company would be badly damaged. Just ask yourself would you subscribe to a game like Eve online when the developer would be known to steal from the players? I dont think so. I assume that this whole "BPO removal" campaign will only focus on getting them off the market but not from the player assets. You have to think aswell about marketing. They create artifical pressure to players by telling them weeks before that they remove BPO's to get them to buy them.
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 132	Posted - 2013.10.24 08:46:00 - [75] - Quote Just be careful buying anything from CCP on eBay. They sound like they'd list an auction for an iPhone and if you won would then send you the instructions for 'how to make an iphone'
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 441	Posted - 2013.10.24 08:49:00 - [76] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear. Heres the problem. People would rather make money endlessly grinding pubs in free suits. Rather than pushing themselves to go into PC and actually develop how the game intended. Highsec should not be profitable BPO's make Highsex profitable Total nonsense, people not doing PC has nothing to do with not having isk, its the crap way the whole system is setup and how it rewards people on top and discrimates people trying to enter. Free suits lol.
daishi mk03 Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 257	Posted - 2013.10.24 09:07:00 - [77] - Quote I think this idea is perfect. Still, they need to return all my money I ever spend on BPOs into my PSN wallet.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2125	Posted - 2013.10.24 09:23:00 - [78] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: I think this idea is perfect. Still, they need to return all my money I ever spend on BPOs into my PSN wallet. Sony would refund you the original amount since it would be going onto PSN and your dust account would most likely be wiped by CCP.
daishi mk03 Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 257	Posted - 2013.10.24 09:28:00 - [79] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: daishi mk03 wrote: I think this idea is perfect. Still, they need to return all my money I ever spend on BPOs into my PSN wallet. Sony would refund you the original amount since it would be going onto PSN and your dust account would most likely be wiped by CCP. My sides. You Dust University guys are so hilarious with your stupid ideas. I mean, this would be even better, so I would also get all my money spend for boosters and everything else back. Won't happen though. :(
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2125	Posted - 2013.10.24 09:34:00 - [80] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: daishi mk03 wrote: I think this idea is perfect. Still, they need to return all my money I ever spend on BPOs into my PSN wallet. Sony would refund you the original amount since it would be going onto PSN and your dust account would most likely be wiped by CCP. My sides. You Dust University guys are so hilarious with your stupid ideas. I mean, this would be even better, so I would also get all my money spend for boosters and everything else back. Won't happen though. :( How would that be better unless you were planning on leaving dust (in which I would happily not mind if you do as long as you leave me your isk ) Also I have heard of people who have contacted Sony to get a refund before.

daishi mk03 Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 257	Posted - 2013.10.24 09:42:00 - [81] - Quote Try harder.
excillon united we stand x 94	Posted - 2013.10.24 09:47:00 - [82] - Quote So the problem is that it affects the ISK gain by the other team? That's simple. Assign an ISK value (Ie: A Dren assault suit is worth the same as a STD assault suit) that the other team gets. I love my BPO's. No making copies, leave them alone. It's why I bought them. You really want to increase market activity and fix an economy? Modules for weapons, separate from dropsuits. Damage mod moves to the weapon, along with a ROF mod and accuracy mod. Then create the over/under attachments...like a 2 shot MD, shotgun for the AR for example. Sniper rifle over/under is a single shot flaylock round, more powerful than the pistol version or a scanner attachment directly fixed to the gun. You get the idea. A room full of over under users would mean to be competitive, the BPO users would have to buy the modules as well to attach to their rifles. Is it as much as a non BPO rifle would cost, no. But it would still increase ISK payout. I can't see how BPO's are gamebreaking. If anything, they help because real money is spent, and that's what keeps this game going. BPO's must be tied into the game and it's economy, not eliminated. There's a place for everything. Besides, if CCP was totally opposed to BPO's like they said, they wouldn't have warned everyone, they just would have pulled them.
daishi mk03 Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 257	Posted - 2013.10.24 09:55:00 - [83] - Quote There is 0 reason to remove BPOs You can run with STD gear, which has the same stats and costs close to nothing.
Takron Nistrom Tinfoil Hatz 100	Posted - 2013.11.01 11:39:00 - [84] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Here's another tidbit for those who say "do it the EVE way" ... CCP is actually trying to phase that out. New modules, for example, are released through controlled drops of BPC. They are still pushing this with the goal of taking back control of the economy/making the AUR store contain more temporary power ups, even after burn jita. So I would not bet on the EVE structure coming to DUST, since CCP doesn't like it in EVE already. Link or GTFO. CCP loves the risk of loss, as do I. The markets will be linked eventually and you'll soon be buying stuff built in Eve. This npc market you see in dust will be gone sooner than you think.
Rowdy Railgunner Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 174	Posted - 2013.11.21 03:37:00 - [85] - Quote Need to bump this because people laughed, now it is happening. The argument that, "I don't own that or this BPO so it doesn't effect me and I don't care" doesn't matter. They are starting down the road I foresaw, and unless you want to be swindled, ignore me. If not we need to shout at the top of our lungs that CASH IS THE ONLY REFUND WE WILL ACCEPT. Take every unit of AURUM from the BPOs you refund and put it into my PS account, not your shady business. I DON'T WANT AUR REFUND, I WANT CASH REFUND!
Takron Nistrom Tinfoil Hatz 131	Posted - 2013.11.21 06:38:00 - [86] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: True Adamance wrote: Caeli SineDeo wrote: Simple Fix turn all BPOs into paint jobs. Bang people go back to buying suits. Then on their fit they can select the paint job they want to run. If it is a caldari assault BPO it should switch so millitant to proto gain the paint job. I do not think many people would mind this. Probably even enjoy this because they can show off the cool looks on their proto gear. I know many of us told CCP BPOs where a bad idea when they first came out. Love how a year later they finally relize it. OR.... make them EVE BPO which have to be produced.... that would make a **** ton more sense. So what happens to DUST players who don't play EVE but purchased BPOs? Sell them to eve players on the p2p GÇ£Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)GÇ¥ GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
Rusty Shallows 520	Posted - 2013.11.21 07:24:00 - [87] - Quote IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: It's because during closed beta BPOs were cheap as dirt so people had stocked up on them. If CCP were to give a refund then there would be people with over 500k aur while they only bought like 200k aur. this is actually wrong on the transition from closed beta to open in January all bpo's were refunded at new market prices..if you wanted to keep your bpo you then bought it back..if not then u made a bunch of aur... the increase in aur because of bpo conversion and price increase has already occurred it did so in mid january..i personally had loads of duplicates of bpo's and bought 1 copy of each back and made about triple aur when that happened 30 aur to 1200 aur to 19800 aur or something like that Actually that is not true they didn't refund any BPO items in january for that exact reason. I'm still sitting on the BPO modules I bought in 2012 none were refunded when all the other assets were, if they do refund AUR spent on BPO items at current values I'll turn an AUR profit to the tune of $500 real dollars. Unless one is happy with AUR BPCs the Booster market can eat that money fast. Last time Passive Omega Boosters were on the market the price was around $36 a pop. Half off during Fanfest. "She may not be Miss Right but she'll do right now." SR-71 310k+ SP for +0.05m/s (>2in) on a Heavy. Totally worth it.
Leonid Tybalt DIOS EX. 0	Posted - 2013.12.13 17:05:00 - [88] - Quote This "bpo's damages the economy"-argument is terribly flawed. If "free stuff" would damage the in-game economy, then how come all those completely free Ibis:es in Eve-online (outfitted with completely free weapons using infinite ammo, and a free mining laser) haven't screwed up Eves economy in the slightest?
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 772	Posted - 2013.12.13 17:30:00 - [89] - Quote I completely disagree that BPO's are game breaking and this is why; Each race has a free militia suit. With this suit you can farm any amount of isk you want for free. All that happenes with people who have BPO suits is more choice in what to equip. You can't protostomp with a BPO suit because there are no proto BPO's. You ant use advanced gear because there is no BPO advanced gear. Basically The people that are using BPO suits are saving just a small amount of isk compared to buying the equivalent militia items. I can run a militia suit (not BPO) fr around 4 to 10k isk. Even If I die 10 times thats a maximum of 100k isk I lose but if I'm a half decent player I'll be making more than that in the match. I can take it a step further and just use a starter suit and still make more isk. Stater suits are basically militia pre-made suits that are completely free. So there is no gamebreaking mechanic here. BPO's only damage the economy if it was HIGH END gear that makes you considerably stronger than anyone else for no isk. BPO's are far from that. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2629	Posted - 2013.12.13 20:19:00 - [90] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: I command thee ... RISE FROM THE DEAD! Furthermore, the game-breaking is CCP's analysis, not my own.

Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 230	Posted - 2013.12.13 20:21:00 - [91] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Why are they NOT being removed? Does CCP really lack the balls to give a small amount of refunds to fix a core problem with the game? Simple answer, they are not game breaking. The majority of them only replicate militia level stats or worse and they really only "look cool" and that's it.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1458	Posted - 2013.12.13 20:22:00 - [92] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Why are they NOT being removed? Does CCP really lack the balls to give a small amount of refunds to fix a core problem with the game? bpo's don't break the game... that's why they haven't removed them all. the only reason ccp suggested they were not working as intended is because ccp doesn't play their own game and have no clue what they are doing. want proof? see FW. see scouts/heavies. see weapon balances. see logi suits. must I go on ccp fails at fps. CCp's newest joke, making setting off your own remote explosives in FW FF... awesome job ccp.
Yelhsa Jin-Mao PROTO RETRIBUTION 212	Posted - 2013.12.13 21:07:00 - [93] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Why are they NOT being removed? Does CCP really lack the balls to give a small amount of refunds to fix a core problem with the game? bpo's don't break the game... that's why they haven't removed them all. the only reason ccp suggested they were not working as intended is because ccp doesn't play their own game and have no clue what they are doing. want proof? see FW. see scouts/heavies. see weapon balances. see logi suits. must I go on ccp fails at fps. You forgot that CCP thought people would continuously buy BPO packs which would make them money, but it turns out people aren't that stupid, so they don't buy the packs and CCP makes no money. I can has ISK
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 409	Posted - 2013.12.13 21:20:00 - [94] - Quote Didn't read the whole thing. However, the BPO's that you bought with AURUM is fair game, as I said in another thread. The ones from the pack are safe. BPO's aren't game-breaking, I know TONS of people who use Toxins and such. I make more than them in Pubs with my ADV gear. I make less profit, but I make more gross income. I know, I know, gross is irrelevant in this game... except it's not. Without that gross, you'd never net money. shrug I used the Toxin AR till the RR's came out, now I use the RR, (Op 5, prof 4, reload 5 (I think), Optimization 3). I make more now than I did with the Toxin (probably because I'm shielded, and fight from range). Names of playstyles
mollerz Minja Scouts 1313	Posted - 2013.12.13 21:24:00 - [95] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: I command thee ... RISE FROM THE DEAD! Furthermore, the game-breaking is CCP's analysis, not my own. I must have missed that memo? CCP's analysis was that handing out BPOs in perpetuate would be harmful, not that existing BPOs are, no? #shittycoding
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 233	Posted - 2013.12.13 21:41:00 - [96] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: ccp fails at fps. No actually CCP fails at implementation. The FPS (once the actually finish adding in all the missing content) is amazing. But they are still not finished with the core verisimilitude of the four races yet.
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 867	Posted - 2013.12.13 21:47:00 - [97] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear. Heres the problem. People would rather make money endlessly grinding pubs in free suits. Rather than pushing themselves to go into PC and actually develop how the game intended. Highsec should not be profitable BPO's make Highsex profitable Did you get killed by a militia shotgun blueprint? Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2614	Posted - 2013.12.13 21:47:00 - [98] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Thor McStrut wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Why are they NOT being removed? Does CCP really lack the balls to give a small amount of refunds to fix a core problem with the game? Because they are not game breaking. The game is just broken, and unfinished. BPOs will work just fine once industry, PvE, and the market are introduced. BPO'a are game breaking to the economy and the overall progression of Dust 514 as a whole. If you can't see this, then you're part of the problem You're absolutely right. The 15k I save every battle because of the 2 or 3 BPOs I run will be the end of this economy I tell you! Broken PC mechanics are fine though. They won't hurt the economy. No.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 895	Posted - 2013.12.13 21:50:00 - [99] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Takron Nistrom wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear. Heres the problem. People would rather make money endlessly grinding pubs in free suits. Rather than pushing themselves to go into PC and actually develop how the game intended. Highsec should not be profitable BPO's make Highsex profitable Or wat about this. Make how much isk u make be totally reliant on the gear u field and how well u do as an individual. Field high end gear, get paid more. Players should be gravitating toward PC and FW for high ISK rewards. LOL FW LOL PC Doesnt matter in Dust 514: PC. FW Standing. Tanking Type. Other mods than DMG or HP. Does matter in Dust 514: Rifles.
mollerz Minja Scouts 1313	Posted - 2013.12.13 21:53:00 - [100] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: ccp fails at fps. No actually CCP fails at implementation. The FPS (once the actually finish adding in all the missing content) is amazing. But they are still not finished with the core verisimilitude of the four races yet. The FPS is not amazing. Even the literal FPS isn't amazing. #shittycoding

Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 425	Posted - 2013.12.13 21:56:00 - [101] - Quote What's wrong with bpos?


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